Unified Doctor Who thread

[Ruger]

So, BBC America are showing a Matt Smith farewell special prior to The Time of the Doctor.  It looks to be their own production rather than a central BBC thing, no word on whether it's going to air in the UK/Ireland yet.

It will be included in the DVD for "The Time of the Doctor" from what I read on the 50th anniversary website...

Ruger

[YingJanshi]

A Timelord Christmas

[ClarkeMarek]

"Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer had a very shiny nose.  It proved to be a tactical disadvantage, but enabled me to punch him in the dark!"

(Sorry, now thinking of Strax and his "Christmas Carols." :D )

[YingJanshi]

"I wants it! I wants it! My precious..."

So, just discovered that you can buy a BBC licensed, full scale replica (with working lights) of a Dalek. Over ₤3000 but still....

[monbvol]

Mwuahahahahahaha.

Sorry.  Just thinking about what I could do with such a thing for Halloween.

Kids: Trick or treat!

Dalek: EXTERMINATE!

[Ruger]

Less than 12.5 hours to go to "The Time of the Doctor"...gives me some time review my new Whoology and Treasures from the First 50 Years: The Vault books...could watch my new DVD's ("The Movie" (with Paul McGann), "The Snowmen" and "The Day of the Doctor", but I watched "The Snowmen" last night, and TDotD back on Sunday or Monday, and will see it again tonight before the special comes on)...and if nothing else, I can relieve stress with my new Adipose Stress Toy while watching the hours count down on my new Doctor Who clock...

If only I had thought to bring my new TARDIS coffee mug back home with me instead of leaving it at work after some co-workers gave it to me...

 8)

Ruger

[Lore]

Less than 12.5 hours to go to "The Time of the Doctor"...gives me some time review my new Whoology and Treasures from the First 50 Years: The Vault books...could watch my new DVD's ("The Movie" (with Paul McGann), "The Snowmen" and "The Day of the Doctor", but I watched "The Snowmen" last night, and TDotD back on Sunday or Monday, and will see it again tonight before the special comes on)...and if nothing else, I can relieve stress with my new Adipose Stress Toy while watching the hours count down on my new Doctor Who clock...

I got a copy of The Vault as well today.

It's an awesome tome full of curious tidbits about the development of the Whoverse over the last 50 years. Definitely a worthwhile purchase... even for the casual DW fan.

[Lorcan Nagle]

SPOILERS below!

I enjoyed it overall, there were a few things that rankled a bit - like having this epic battle happen mainly off-screen (but like the Time War, you can't show it without it being a disappointment somehow), but yeah, a good send-off and a great way to show Matt Smith's range as The Doctor. Loved how they worked his hair into the episode too.

[Ruger]

I got a copy of The Vault as well today.

It's an awesome tome full of curious tidbits about the development of the Whoverse over the last 50 years. Definitely a worthwhile purchase... even for the casual DW fan.

I think I'm actually enjoying Whoology more though...lots of tidbits in this too, and information about various incarnations of the Doctor, his companions, etc....

And loving the fact that BBCAmerica played "The Night of the Doctor" prior to "The Day of the Doctor" just now...

Ruger

[Lore]

I've still got to pick up a copy of that one.

It's been hard to find here.

[Ruger]

SPOILERS below!

I enjoyed it overall, there were a few things that rankled a bit - like having this epic battle happen mainly off-screen (but like the Time War, you can't show it without it being a disappointment somehow), but yeah, a good send-off and a great way to show Matt Smith's range as The Doctor. Loved how they worked his hair into the episode too.

Mostly agreed...I actually liked the amount of the battle that they included though...and the switch to Capaldi was a bit sudden at the end, wasn't it?


Also kind of liked the fact that Matt's final words held everything that it would mean for an actor who had truly enjoyed being the Doctor for a time...although I believe Tennant's "I don't want to go!" said as much in far fewer words...

Oh and...he's complaining about the color of his kidneys? Interesting choice, eh?

Ruger

[Ruger]

I've still got to pick up a copy of that one.

It's been hard to find here.

It's a quick read though...I'm almost 300 pages into now...and that's with my attention going elsewhere during much of the day while reviewing it...

Ruger

[StCptMara]

There is a good question, mind you.

"A new regeneration cycle": was that just that he was regenerating, or that he has a new set
of Regenerations?

Also...

Capaldi's first words as the Doctor, asking Oswin if she knew how to fly the TARDIS...Is that
just his brain still cooking, or does it mean that he has actually forgotten?

[Ruger]

There is a good question, mind you.

"A new regeneration cycle": was that just that he was regenerating, or that he has a new set
of Regenerations?

Also...

Capaldi's first words as the Doctor, asking Oswin if she knew how to fly the TARDIS...Is that
just his brain still cooking, or does it mean that he has actually forgotten?

As to the first:

Would be far easier for the producers and such if it is a complete set of regenerations...that way they do not have to worry about the possibility of a sudden decision of a particular actor (or, heaven forbid, accidental injury or death) mean they have no way to change the character


As to the last:

Good question...I'm assuming the former, but it would almost be funnier if it was the latter...

Ruger

[bytor]

As to the first:

Would be far easier for the producers and such if it is a complete set of regenerations...that way they do not have to worry about the possibility of a sudden decision of a particular actor (or, heaven forbid, accidental injury or death) mean they have no way to change the character


As to the last:

Good question...I'm assuming the former, but it would almost be funnier if it was the latter...

Ruger

My take on that: each regeneration seems to be a bit different with regards to aftereffects, the 10th pretty much went into a coma, the 8th had no idea who he was, the 11th couldn't figure out what kind of food he liked.......most likely a temporary condition for the 12th

I enjoyed the Special, though I need to watch it again at some point as watching TV on Christmas is a challenge with excited children running about lol

[Wombat]

The one question is did the Time Lords on the other side of the crack simply give him one-more regeneration or did they reboot his entire life?

And yes, Capoldi was a bit sudden.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Capaldi may have been sudden, but Matt Smith seemed like he dragged rhe scene out a bit much

[ANS Kamas P81]

Capaldi may have been sudden, but Matt Smith seemed like he dragged rhe scene out a bit much

Using Matrix: Revolutions as a basis point, how many Trinities are we talking here?

[ClarkeMarek]

There is a good question, mind you.

"A new regeneration cycle": was that just that he was regenerating, or that he has a new set
of Regenerations?

Also...

Capaldi's first words as the Doctor, asking Oswin if she knew how to fly the TARDIS...Is that
just his brain still cooking, or does it mean that he has actually forgotten?

[River]Spoilers[/River]
From my understanding of the first question, I think I saw somewhere that it was a completely new set of regenerations, but I could be mistaken.  As for the second one, well, the Doctor has been known to act a little wonky when he regenerates, and since he got at least one new regeneration out of it, if not a complete cycle reboot, it wouldn't be completely out of character for him to have a massive brain fart for a couple of hours.  Oh, we saw the glow, the camera cut to Clara, then 12 showed up(at least that's what I saw).  That was a very quick regeneration.

[Scotty]

There was a throwaway line in the 50th Anniversary Special by the Curator that could shed some light on this.  He mentions, in sequence, that when the Doctor speaks on retiring to be the Curator, "You might", and when speaking about never forgetting faces, "You may find yourself revisiting some of them again."

That speaks to me of a new set of regenerations, where the Doctor chooses to go back to the looks of previous regenerations.  Quite a nice way to give former Doctors who want to return some more screen time.

[bytor]

[River]Spoilers[/River]
From my understanding of the first question, I think I saw somewhere that it was a completely new set of regenerations, but I could be mistaken.  As for the second one, well, the Doctor has been known to act a little wonky when he regenerates, and since he got at least one new regeneration out of it, if not a complete cycle reboot, it wouldn't be completely out of character for him to have a massive brain fart for a couple of hours.  Oh, we saw the glow, the camera cut to Clara, then 12 showed up(at least that's what I saw).  That was a very quick regeneration.

I thought it was actually a pretty long regeneration.  He went from very old 11, to young 11, to 12 over the course of a few scenes. Then again, I never thought of the process as something that was consistent in the first place, so I wasn't surprised that it was changed up.

[Scotty]

Also, did anyone else catch the Dalek tank?  http://i1.cdnds.net/13/50/618x411/uktv-doctor-who-time-of-the-doctor-xmas-special-16.jpg

[GreenDragon]

As much as I was ready to see her leave - long before she did - I loved Amy's cameo.  Nice way to recap Matt's tenure.

The Council of Gallifrey granted the Master a second Regeneration Cycle for his efforts on their behalf.  since his madness, and all his crimes were Rassilon's fault, it was the least they could do for the man who they gave the task of saving them.  Since the Doctor worked his entire life to save Gallifrey, and succeeded, they owed him.

The origin of the rip in time that lead to the destruction of the TARDIS is revealed.  Finally.

Clara didn't know anything about computers.  And apparently she has never seen the Moon Landing.  Being as how she didn't have the memory of the Silence recommending that they be exterminated.

Anyone feel that Clara's Grandmother met the Doctor as a young woman?

[ANS Kamas P81]

As much as I was ready to see her leave - long before she did - I loved Amy's cameo.  Nice way to recap Matt's tenure.


Clara didn't know anything about computers.  And apparently she has never seen the Moon Landing.  Being as how she didn't have the memory of the Silence recommending that they be exterminated.

Agreed re: cameo.  Really a heartstringer.  As for the Silence, I imagine the Papal Database had something to do with that - you notice they're now the perfect Confessor and fighting alongside the Doctor.  Ah well...there goes my one horrible thought.  "How do you know the genocide of the Silence is real?  Wouldn't all the bodies be lying everywhere as they're killed off?"  "Absolutely.  Haven't you ever stumbled over something, looked back, and then didn't see anything there?"

Anyone feel that Clara's Grandmother met the Doctor as a young woman?

Nah, that would be pushing things too far - she was a woman smitten in love, and her description of that beautiful man of Clara's grandfather was simply something that resonated in Clara's heart.

[Lore]

There is a good question, mind you.

"A new regeneration cycle": was that just that he was regenerating, or that he has a new set
of Regenerations?

Also...

Capaldi's first words as the Doctor, asking Oswin if she knew how to fly the TARDIS...Is that
just his brain still cooking, or does it mean that he has actually forgotten?

I agree with Ruger. This is more than likely an example of the Doctor's body still "cooking" after his regeneration. We know memory-lapses are a temporary condition after a regeneration. So this could simply be another instance of that.

Interestingly enough, it could also be a hook -- and an unexpected consequence of being granted a new regeneration cycle. Permanent memory lapses means he'll have to relearn some crucial stuff.

[Lore]

The one question is did the Time Lords on the other side of the crack simply give him one-more regeneration or did they reboot his entire life?

And yes, Capoldi was a bit sudden.

I'm thinking that the Time Lords granted the Doctor a complete new cycle of regenerations. Similar to that granted to the Master.

My reason for thinking this is due to the fact that Moffat loves dropping hints about future events in the dialogues of certain characters. Did anyone else hear the reference to the plot of "The Five Doctors?" Matt's Doctor specifically mentions he has the Great Seal of Gallifrey 'taken from the Master in the Death Zone.'

I don't think it's a coincidence that Moffat directly referenced either the Master nor the events of "The Five Doctors." He's laying the groundwork for something focusing on a new regeneration cycle for the Doctor, I'd wager.

[StCptMara]

So, I was thinking....

Matt Smith's Doctor does get a sort of special distinction. Only his, the War Doctor, and Hartnell's Doctors
have gotten to die of old age. Do we know if this is common among other Time Lords? And...should we see this
as something special? Or a rare instance for The Doctor of him getting to do what Time Lords normally do?

Also, was it ever explained how Regenerations work? As in: why Time Lords can Regenerate? Is it their mastery of
time? Is it a racial thing? What?

[Drop Bear]

Anyone feel that Clara's Grandmother met the Doctor as a young woman?

Well there is always a Clara Oswin Oswald around for the Doctor, perhaps she was the one for mid 20th century earth?

[monbvol]

So, I was thinking....

Matt Smith's Doctor does get a sort of special distinction. Only his, the War Doctor, and Hartnell's Doctors
have gotten to die of old age. Do we know if this is common among other Time Lords? And...should we see this
as something special? Or a rare instance for The Doctor of him getting to do what Time Lords normally do?

Also, was it ever explained how Regenerations work? As in: why Time Lords can Regenerate? Is it their mastery of
time? Is it a racial thing? What?

It was explained as part of the River Song story arc that regeneration was a consequence of living near the Time Vortex.

[Ruger]

So, I was thinking....

Matt Smith's Doctor does get a sort of special distinction. Only his, the War Doctor, and Hartnell's Doctors
have gotten to die of old age. Do we know if this is common among other Time Lords? And...should we see this
as something special? Or a rare instance for The Doctor of him getting to do what Time Lords normally do?

Also, was it ever explained how Regenerations work? As in: why Time Lords can Regenerate? Is it their mastery of
time? Is it a racial thing? What?

To answer your last question first, it was exposure to the Time Vortex over many centuries...this is what gave River Song the ability to regenerate, as she was conceived inside the TARDIS while she was in the Time Vortex...

As to your other questions: I think this is what most normal Time Lords get to do...use a regeneration up to its natural lifespan, barring accident or other action...however, it does appear to me that Matt Smith's Doctor lived far longer than all the other Doctors, even those who lived to their body's old age...the first Doctor would have been only a few hundred years old (450 or less), as the Second Doctor tells Victoria that he is around 450 years old in "The Tomb of the Cybermen"...of course, maybe the First Doctor started counting his "age as the Doctor" separate from his actual age, so let's give him another couple centuries on top of that, so around 650 years total maybe?...this can still work with the ages given during his time as the 4th Doctor (749 in "The Brain of Morbius", 750 in "The Robots of Death" and 756 or 759 in "The Ribos Operation"), as he would have spent basically the time shown on the show as the Third Doctor (he was exiled to Earth, and was a member of Unit during most of this time, so a decade or less in that body...this would also give him a few extra years to age visibly as the Second Doctor (reference "The Two Doctors") during his time working with Gallifrey's CIA during the seasons 6b period... (of course, this may be actually a later incarnation Doctor revisiting this old favorite form, and picking Jamie back up for some fun even later in life, eh?  ;) )...the Colin Baker Doctor indicates he is 900 years old during "The Revelation of the Daleks", which can also be ok to the above, and Sylvestor McCoy's Doctor is supposed to be 953 during "The Time and the Rani"...he also visibly aged between "Survival" and "The Doctor Who Movie", so he was likely in this body for at least 3 or 4 centuries before losing it...

We do not know how long the War Doctor lived in that incarnation, only that it went from young (almost teenaged?) to old in his time in that incarnation, so likely several hundred years (I still think the Doctor re-started counting his age when this change was made, so let's say that he also lived another 650 or so years in this incarnation, with Eccleston's Doctor known to have had many adventures before meeting Rose, so that would give him 200 years or so in that body to get to the 900 he claimed in "Aliens of London")...then Tennant's Doctor basically aged a year for each of his seasons...then we know that Matt Smith's Doctor aged from 906 (when he was "born" to 1200+ years old by the time of "A Town Called Mercy" (approximately 300 years with no apparent aging of the body)...and then another 300 years  on Trenzalore before Clara rejoins him for the first time, and we see visible lines on his face, greying of his hair, and he has to walk with a cane...this is followed by another unstated amount of time that ages him to near death before he gets the regeneration...maybe it was only a few decades (which would "match" the above), or it could have been even more centuries...

Still, at the time he finally regenerated, I'm betting the Doctor was actually on the order of 2500 years old or more, not just the 1500+ that might be claimed otherwise...

Of course, thinking about this, this means we have the following:

First Doctor: died of old age at 400 to 600 or so years old
Second Doctor: forcibly regenerated by the Time Lords, likely after spending a few decades in the body, or maybe centuries...
Third Doctor: Only a few years in this body before having to regenerate
Fourth Doctor: At least a century or three in this body
Fifth Doctor: Likely only a decade or so at most in this body, due to the lack of aging of his nearly constant companions during this body's tenure...then again, there was Time Crash?!?!?!?!?
Sixth Doctor: Same issues here as in the Fifth Doctor's
Seventh Doctor: Unknown, but long enough to visibly age, so at least 350 years?
Eighth Doctor: Unknown, but again, long enough to visibly age, so at least 350 years?
War Doctor: died of old age, so 400 to 600 years old or so
Ninth Doctor: Unknown, but possibly 200 or 300 years old at regeneration?
Tenth Doctor, version A: 3 years or so
Tenth Doctor, version B: 1 year, maybe a little more
Eleventh Doctor: 600+ years old at the time of his regeneration

So, out of all of them, the 1st, War and 11th Doctors lived the longest, with possibly the 2nd and 9th, and (more likely) the 4th, 7th and 8th having spent a few centuries in these bodies, and the 3rd, 5th, 6th and 10a and 10b bodies likely having only a few years to them...

Of course, if a Time Lord can live 600 years minimum per body, that means their total normal lifespan would be 7800 years!!!


Thoughts?

Ruger