Unified Doctor Who thread

[Lorcan Nagle]

I thought it had more of a 1st Doctor vibe.

[Lore]

I want to know where they go from this; do they continue with the return of the Time Lords or go with something new?  I am also really curious to what kind of Doctor the 12th is- I almost picture him a re-imagined 3rd for some reason.

Re: the Time Lords ... I don't see Moffat playing up that angle too much. At least not within the first year of Capaldi's Doctor. Maybe in Season Nine... provided Capaldi continues in the role.

As for what Capaldi's Doctor might be like ... I'm thinking he'll be a little more like the First Doctor -- an abrasive attitude... with a pinch of the Sixth's arrogance mixed in.

Interestingly enough, Moffat recently said that we can expect Capaldi's Doctor to be "fiercer" than what we've seen previously for the role.

[Darth Nichos]

But wasn't that what the Third Doctor was? He was a pretty fierce and hardly cracked a smile.

Right now, I am going with the idea of this personality wise:

10th-1st
11th-2nd
12th-3rd

[Lore]

But wasn't that what the Third Doctor was? He was a pretty fierce and hardly cracked a smile.

I always characterised the Third Doctor as "jovially fierce." Because he often had a tendency to daringly smile right before he was about to launch some crazy plan to save the planet.

Right now, I am going with the idea of this personality wise:

10th-1st
11th-2nd
12th-3rd

I thought the Ninth was kind of more like the First Doctor in terms of personality and mindset. The Tenth was a mix of the Fourth and Fifth. While I've often seen the Eleventh as largely an expansion of the Second Doctor's characteristic antics.

The Twelfth I do believe will bring back some of the First's abrasiveness. And he seems like a highly arrogant sort -- but this is based partly on Capaldi's acting style in previous roles. Which brings to my mind... a little of what the Sixth was like just after his regeneration.

[Lore]

As an aside to all of this personality discussion of the Twelfth Doctor, though...

What do you folk think of the recent announcement regarding Capaldi being allowed to use his Scottish accent for the role of the Doctor?

Apparently, unlike the Tennant-era, the Doctor will now be encouraged to have something of a Scots accent, rather than the traditional "North English."

Perhaps it's a step back to what we saw with Sylvester's McCoy's Seventh Doctor accent?

[monbvol]

I think it is a step in the right direction to let the Doctor have some diversity.

[YingJanshi]

As an aside to all of this personality discussion of the Twelfth Doctor, though...

What do you folk think of the recent announcement regarding Capaldi being allowed to use his Scottish accent for the role of the Doctor?

Apparently, unlike the Tennant-era, the Doctor will now be encouraged to have something of a Scots accent, rather than the traditional "North English."

Perhaps it's a step back to what we saw with Sylvester's McCoy's Seventh Doctor accent?

I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

[Øystein]

Isn't Capaldi the 13th doctor actor? John Hurt should count :)

(Or 18th if you count "Doctor Who and the Curse of Final Death" :D, which had Rowan Atkinson, Richard E. Grant, Jim Broadbent, Hugh Grant and  Joanna Lumley as Doctors.)

[Lore]

I honestly don't see what the big deal is.

Neither do I. I've been championing the notion of the Doctor having a different accent after each regeneration from the Colin Baker-era.

It makes biological and physiological sense -- that, along with everything else that changes during regeneration, the Doctor's new vocal cords might also produce a slightly different inflection and/or accent.

Isn't Capaldi the 13th doctor actor? John Hurt should count :)

He is the thirteenth actor, in terms of canon, yes. Matt's line in "The Time of the Doctor" cleared all that up.

(Or 18th if you count "Doctor Who and the Curse of Final Death" :D, which had Rowan Atkinson, Richard E. Grant, Jim Broadbent, Hugh Grant and  Joanna Lumley as Doctors.)

It's 19... if you also include another non-canonical Doctor -- in the form of Peter Cushing.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Plus, Richard E. Grant would count twice then:  His character in Curse of Fatal Death is different to the animated version.

[monbvol]

Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, T.Baker, Davison, C.Baker, McCoy, McGann, Hurt, Eccleston, Tennantx2, Smith, Capaldi.

13 official actors for 14 official incarnations.

[gyedid]

So, I finally got around to watching "Time of the Doctor"....and...no Valeyard?

As for the episode itself...kind of a mess trying to tie up all those plot threads in one hour.  But still totally worth it for Matt Smith's last performance as the Doctor.  Blew both Tennant and Eccleston out of the water IMO.  Having spent some time catching up on the series after a 4-year hiatus, I can't help but feel that Smith understood the Doctor's non-human nature better than his predecessors, as opposed to their more "touchy-feely" approach--but that may be as much due to the different approaches of Steven Moffat and Russell T. Davies.  Either way, Peter Capaldi has a very tough act to follow.

cheers,

Gabe

[Dr. Banzai]

So, I finally got around to watching "Time of the Doctor"....and...no Valeyard?

As for the episode itself...kind of a mess trying to tie up all those plot threads in one hour.  But still totally worth it for Matt Smith's last performance as the Doctor.  Blew both Tennant and Eccleston out of the water IMO.  Having spent some time catching up on the series after a 4-year hiatus, I can't help but feel that Smith understood the Doctor's non-human nature better than his predecessors, as opposed to their more "touchy-feely" approach--but that may be as much due to the different approaches of Steven Moffat and Russell T. Davies.  Either way, Peter Capaldi has a very tough act to follow.

cheers,

Gabe

From a couple of great articles (and Neil Gaiman's tumblr post on Peter Capaldi's casting), I've pieced together why each was perfect in their way.

Christopher Eccleston - Remember, he came in with no budget, they had no idea if they had a hit and it had been 9 years since the TV-Movie and 16 years since the original series left the air. To bring the Doctor back to a new generation, they needed to show him as easily relatable to. If they had made him too alien or strange, people would have more than likely just flipped the channel, thinking it was more 70's nostalgia campy-ness. So his wardrobe, attitude, and overall style was more subdued than any other Doctor. And Eccleston still managed to play him to the hilt, showing all the stuff that was going on in his head with just a glance or a half-smile. He set it the foundation for people to trust the Doctor.

David Tennant - (warning, I'm a bit biased) The 10th Doctor revealed the Intelligence of the Doctor. He's the one that showed he was the smartest one in the room, and brought in a bit of distance by showing that he was alien and didn't really "belong" to or on Earth. But that he did care about the planet and its denizens and always wanted to bring out their best (although he often brought out their worst as well). Whereas Eccleston was the guy with the box showing you the universe, Tennant brought home the title of Doctor to the role.

Matt Smith - The 11th Doctor brought the weird back to the character. Of the three modern Doctors, his was the most obviously alien. He had the foundations of Eccleston's "runner" and Tennant's "smart-guy" and took off to show how the alien was a part of both of those. Although I think they went too far some times with the manic five-year-old act, they did balance it nicely when he was forced to be serious. Not too mention, where Eccleston and Tennant got you to trust the Doctor (both as a companion and as a viewer), Smith's Doctor firmly proclaimed "Rule #1 - the Doctor lies." Which means that everything we knew of 9 & 10 now had to be take with a grain of salt (and brings up a lot of other fun nuances when rewatching the older episodes knowing that fact).

Peter Capaldi - To paraphrase Neil Gaiman, the Doctor after Smith had to be older, gruffy and wiser to counterbalance everything that happened in Smith's era. In following with my view, Eccleston invited us to travel with him; Tennant showed us how smart the Doctor really was; Smith reminded us that the Doctor is an alien first and always; and now Capaldi will show us the Doctor's age (which is greater than 1500 years by a large margin by the end of Time of the Doctor). He might be more like a mix between McCoy and Hartnell's Doctor and letting his companions do the heavy lifting.

[ClarkeMarek]

So, I finally got around to watching "Time of the Doctor"....and...no Valeyard?

You know, now that I think about it, while we do see Matt glowing, we don't see the full transition from Matt to Peter...

Nah, I'm reading too much into it.   :D

[gyedid]

From a couple of great articles (and Neil Gaiman's tumblr post on Peter Capaldi's casting), I've pieced together why each was perfect in their way.

Matt Smith - The 11th Doctor brought the weird back to the character. Of the three modern Doctors, his was the most obviously alien. He had the foundations of Eccleston's "runner" and Tennant's "smart-guy" and took off to show how the alien was a part of both of those. Although I think they went too far some times with the manic five-year-old act, they did balance it nicely when he was forced to be serious. Not too mention, where Eccleston and Tennant got you to trust the Doctor (both as a companion and as a viewer), Smith's Doctor firmly proclaimed "Rule #1 - the Doctor lies." Which means that everything we knew of 9 & 10 now had to be take with a grain of salt (and brings up a lot of other fun nuances when rewatching the older episodes knowing that fact).

Well, there were some of us raised on the old series who were hoping to get a new Doctor who was more reminiscent of some of the classic ones.  Matt Smith was it.  (Though there were some times that he skated uncomfortably close to Seventh Doctor territory...)

EDIT:  then again, who am I to disagree with the likes of Tom Baker?


cheers,

Gabe

[Lorcan Nagle]

Set photo released by the BBC.

[Scotty]

Snazzy duds, there.

[Lore]

As impressive as that first set photo is... I think we're all really waiting for the first glimpse of what will be Capaldi's actual Doctor-costume.

Personally, I'm eager to see the "dress-up" scene -- where the new Doctor first chooses his "new dress look." It'll be interesting to see how Capaldi's dress-up sequence will go.

[worktroll]

Ecclestone represented the Doctor from shortly after the Time War. Angry, dark, tormented, stressed. He had a sharp edge which suited the role perfectly. The episode "Dalek" highlighted this - Ecclestone's reaction to the Dalek's comment summed up him realising where he'd gone.

(In retrospect, one could speak of traces of the "War Doctor" still there, except that concept didn't exist at the time.)

Tennant was, if you'll allow me, the PSTD Doctor. I've always maintained that the Doctors regarded their companions as particularly valued pets. This doctor developed romantic (and biological) urges for another species, and there's strong words describing someone who does that. ("The Doctor Dances" - dancing has been explicitly linked to other moving activities by the writers.) I still think the best episode under Tennant was "Blink", in part because he was sauce, not main course.

Smith - sorry, couldn't warm to him. If Ecclestone was "angry Doc", and Tennant was "needy Doc", this one seemed to be "frivolous Doc".

W.

[Wrangler]

Ecclestone represented the Doctor from shortly after the Time War. Angry, dark, tormented, stressed. He had a sharp edge which suited the role perfectly. The episode "Dalek" highlighted this - Ecclestone's reaction to the Dalek's comment summed up him realising where he'd gone.

(In retrospect, one could speak of traces of the "War Doctor" still there, except that concept didn't exist at the time.)

Tennant was, if you'll allow me, the PSTD Doctor. I've always maintained that the Doctors regarded their companions as particularly valued pets. This doctor developed romantic (and biological) urges for another species, and there's strong words describing someone who does that. ("The Doctor Dances" - dancing has been explicitly linked to other moving activities by the writers.) I still think the best episode under Tennant was "Blink", in part because he was sauce, not main course.

Smith - sorry, couldn't warm to him. If Ecclestone was "angry Doc", and Tennant was "needy Doc", this one seemed to be "frivolous Doc".

W.

Do you think the writers for Doctor Who since Ecclestone planned thos whole behavior pattern to begin with?

[YingJanshi]

Ecclestone represented the Doctor from shortly after the Time War. Angry, dark, tormented, stressed. He had a sharp edge which suited the role perfectly. The episode "Dalek" highlighted this - Ecclestone's reaction to the Dalek's comment summed up him realising where he'd gone.

(In retrospect, one could speak of traces of the "War Doctor" still there, except that concept didn't exist at the time.)

Tennant was, if you'll allow me, the PSTD Doctor. I've always maintained that the Doctors regarded their companions as particularly valued pets. This doctor developed romantic (and biological) urges for another species, and there's strong words describing someone who does that. ("The Doctor Dances" - dancing has been explicitly linked to other moving activities by the writers.) I still think the best episode under Tennant was "Blink", in part because he was sauce, not main course.

Smith - sorry, couldn't warm to him. If Ecclestone was "angry Doc", and Tennant was "needy Doc", this one seemed to be "frivolous Doc".

W.

I think "Midnight" is pretty close contender though. I mean how many other shows make such an intense, edge-of-your-seat thriller...purely with dialogue?

As to Smith...I like him, but I think he's hobbled by a lack of good stories. Honestly, at least for me, most of his stories with Amy/Rory are quite forgettable (and I do, they all seem to mush together). Yes, there are some good moments, and a few interesting ideas. But there aren't any episodes that stand out like there are for Ecclestone and Tennant. The ones with Clara were a little better, but not by much.

[monbvol]

Tennant for me was able to do more with less, which really resonated with me for what it meant for someone to be Doctor Who.  He was doing with facial expressions what Smith needed several lines of dialogue to do.

Now don't get me wrong Smith isn't my least favorite Doctor either and isn't the worst actor I've seen either.

[Lore]

As to Smith...I like him, but I think he's hobbled by a lack of good stories. Honestly, at least for me, most of his stories with Amy/Rory are quite forgettable (and I do, they all seem to mush together).

In terms of the Doctor/Amy story-arc, I really think Matt's first year was the better period. Back when we weren't really sure what the relationship between the two of them was like.

And while I can and do appreciate the whole "River Song" plotline, I think it was stretched entirely too far. It really should have been just a one season story-arc, I think.

[worktroll]

Do you think the writers for Doctor Who since Ecclestone planned thos whole behavior pattern to begin with?

Not even a little bit. They had no idea whether the series would survive or not on the first "new era" series. I do think they deliberately had Ecclestone as post-war stressed. But, like BT authors, all the Who writers scatter idiosyncracies like rice, in the likelyhood of being able to revisit them later.

(Leaving aside deliberate arcs like "Bad Wolf". Case in point - I doubt the labelling of the McGuffin in "Day of the Doctor" was planned back in the Tennant series. They just ran with it years later.)

[GreenDragon]

Is that actually a new outfit?  Not just Capaldi in Matt's threads, or the threads he was wearing at the end of the episode?

[Lore]

Is that actually a new outfit?  Not just Capaldi in Matt's threads, or the threads he was wearing at the end of the episode?

I don't think it's a new outfit. It's Matt's threads from the end of "The Time of the Doctor." He's missing the bow-tie, which Matt's Doctor removed before he regenerated, and he's wearing the same waistcoat with the pocket-watch chain that Matt wore as part of his outfit.

Plus, Clara's still wearing her same clothes as well. This scene looks like it's a direct follow-up from just after the Eleventh/Thirteenth regenerated.

[gyedid]

As to Smith...I like him, but I think he's hobbled by a lack of good stories. Honestly, at least for me, most of his stories with Amy/Rory are quite forgettable (and I do, they all seem to mush together). Yes, there are some good moments, and a few interesting ideas. But there aren't any episodes that stand out like there are for Ecclestone and Tennant. The ones with Clara were a little better, but not by much.

Well, you could think of it this way:  Matt Smith's entire run was basically one long arc, or several tied together.  So in that respect it's no surprise that all the stories are kind of run-on.  The fault--if you want to call it that--must be laid squarely at Steven Moffat's feet; it seemed to me that he exercised much more creative control than Davies did.  On the other hand, while the stories may not have been as strong, I feel the presentation was overall more mature than during the Davies era.  I was a bit put off by the repeated use of and references to popular culture (especially in episodes Davies himself wrote), which make the episodes seem dated after a few years.

cheers,

Gabe 

[Wrangler]

I liked the chemistry that Matt Smith with Amy/Rory's actors/actresses.  The farewell showed that off, frankly make me appreciate Smith's run bit more.

[Lore]

According to Moffat [in the latest Doctor Who Magazine]... we can expect Capaldi to play the role as more of a "Kick up the a**e" Doctor, rather than the Tennant/Smith "Boyfriend Doctor."

So Capaldi's sounding like he'll be a little more than Eccleston's Doctor.

[ColonelCody]

According to Moffat [in the latest Doctor Who Magazine]... we can expect Capaldi to play the role as more of a "Kick up the a**e" Doctor, rather than the Tennant/Smith "Boyfriend Doctor."

So Capaldi's sounding like he'll be a little more than Eccleston's Doctor.

Funny when you said that, I thought more like 'Pertwee's Doctor'.