Unified Doctor Who thread

[Atlas3060]

I did like the camera work with the silver plate and that discussion about "getting a new face".
Plus I did love the cameo at the end, that whole talk with Clara almost sounded like the writers and actors open letter to the fans too.
I need to rewatch the whole thing though, I was working on some flooring earlier. Overall though I like this Doctor's direction, or the potential for it.

[Mecha82]

That was very interesting start for new season and for new version of the Doctor. I did like it very much. 

[jimdigris]

It seems like they're trying to emphacize the "steampunk" look.
At first, I thought that the crazy lady at the end was Mother Superior of the Papal Mainframe, but they're played by different actresses.

Edit: Last night's episode is related to another episode: Season 2, episode 4 The Girl in the Fireplace.  Google it.  The names of the ships the Doctor was trying to remember were seen here.

[mathesont]

The intro especially the music sucked.  Liked that the companion had as much or more trouble with the regeneration as the Doctor.  Thought the cameo being used to bring Doctor and Clara together was an easy way out.  A well written conversation between the two would have been better.  The story was weak and the fight at the end was pathetic.  Hoping for better writing in the next episode and to get a good feeling for the new Doc.

[YingJanshi]

The intro especially the music sucked.  Liked that the companion had as much or more trouble with the regeneration as the Doctor.  Thought the cameo being used to bring Doctor and Clara together was an easy way out.  A well written conversation between the two would have been better.  The story was weak and the fight at the end was pathetic.  Hoping for better writing in the next episode and to get a good feeling for the new Doc.

Don't get your hopes up too much. The writing was the same it's been the last few years. The easy outs...

But Capaldi is awesome though. I think I'm really going to enjoy his Doctor. Brings some danger back to the character. The Doctor was originally rather unnerving and frankly a bit frightening. See the first few stories with Hartnell. (True, they did make him more likeable as time went on.) But still, you could never be quite sure about him. Which I like. The Doctor shouldn't be a cuddly little playful hero. He should be a bit frightening, a little be unapproachable. He should be good, but not safe. He should never be "safe".

[gyedid]

I did like the camera work with the silver plate and that discussion about "getting a new face".
Plus I did love the cameo at the end, that whole talk with Clara almost sounded like the writers and actors open letter to the fans too.

I think that Moffat is trying (at least) to respond to the criticisms leveled at his portrayal of female characters.  I think we learned more about Clara as a person in this one story than we did in all of the episodes from last season where she appeared.  And, when she's not kicking butt (on behalf of the Doctor or otherwise), I would have to say Vastra is the projection of Moffat himself into the stories.  However, weakly developed female characters are nothing new in Doctor Who--Elisabeth Sladen herself once described the 70s version of Sarah Jane as "a bit of a cardboard cut-out"...and let's not get started about Leela and Peri...hey that's it...for Moffat, Leela is the archetype of "strong female character"  ;D

As far as the Paternoster Gang being the Doctor's proxy army goes, do remember what happened to the Doctor the last time he tried to do his own fighting...still, it would be nice to see him reach back deep into his old memories and bust out some of those Venusian Aikido moves.  ;)

cheers,

Gabe

[gyedid]

(Of course that could just be Moffet's unability to write good female characters. He seems to think that giving a woman a gun or sword or whatever weapon makes her a strong admirable character.)

Or, in the case of Tasha Lem, a very large spaceship and a militarized (quasi-?)religious order at her disposal.  :P

cheers,

Gabe

[GreenDragon]

I like the new intro.  Incorporates some classic elements, and is new at the same time.
New TARDIS is OK.  I could have done with more of the Round thingees.  I loved those.
New Doctor isn't Ginger.  Maybe next time...

Nice cameo by Matt Smith.  Obviously that takes place after he has boarded the TARDIS, and turned young again, but before Clara came in.
And the other Cameo.  Is that who i think it is?  I mean the actual actress - as well as her character.  Certainly looks like The Rani and her TARDIS.


Theory regarding another Time Lord possibly returning:
There is a rumor the Master will return.  But if he does, it diminishes his sacrifice against Rassilon.  What if the Rani clones him?  He still died a hero, sending Rassilon and his followers back into Stasis.  And she has brought him back.

[YingJanshi]

And the other Cameo.  Is that who i think it is?  I mean the actual actress - as well as her character.  Certainly looks like The Rani and her TARDIS.

That would be...interesting. Very interesting...

Theory regarding another Time Lord possibly returning:
There is a rumor the Master will return.  But if he does, it diminishes his sacrifice against Rassilon.  What if the Rani clones him?  He still died a hero, sending Rassilon and his followers back into Stasis.  And she has brought him back.

Did that even happen now? I mean in light of the events of "Day of the Doctor" and "Time of the Doctor". That's the one wrinkle I'm having a hard time seeing Moffet untangle. Of course he could just say it never happened in the first place or he could simply ignore it. I'm just having a hard time seeing the Time Lords of "The End of Time", who have basically gone evil being reconciled with the ones that would give the Doctor a new set of regenerations in "Time of the Doctor". But we'll see. The rumors are saying this year will see the return of the Time Lords.

[Lore]

Overall, I enjoyed the season opener. And unlike the introductory episodes of the last three Doctors, I'm already sold on Capaldi.

He's a solid casting choice, with a sense of wit and wisdom that not only channels most of the Doctors who came before him, but adds something of his own uniqueness to the role as well.

Additionally, I like the rather subtle explanation for why his face may have been seen in the past. It's not an outright and full on confirmation... just the kind of wavy and iffy theory we've long come to expect from the Doctor. Fantastic!

The Half-Face Man and the piecing-together-robots were some of my favourites "bads" from the Tennant-era, so I was happy to see them again. And I rather loved the ambiguity of whether the Doctor killed him or not. Kind of reminiscent of Tennant's "reflection of the man/Doctor" he is/was after his sword duel with the Sycorax lord.

"Missy" seems like she'll be the season's Big Bad, so I'm looking forward to seeing how that plot angle plays out.

Clara's internal and external conflicts were handled well, too, I thought. Because it reflected something of the transition that those who aren't immediate travel companions of the Doctor must also go through as well, when they see him with a new face.

And the cameo... I like that Moffat's said that this scene was put together during the time of shooting Time of the Doctor. That just made it so much more prophetic, and fittingly tragic.

Good stuff!

[Lore]

I like the new intro.  Incorporates some classic elements, and is new at the same time.
New TARDIS is OK.  I could have done with more of the Round thingees.  I loved those.
New Doctor isn't Ginger.  Maybe next time...

Nice cameo by Matt Smith.  Obviously that takes place after he has boarded the TARDIS, and turned young again, but before Clara came in.
And the other Cameo.  Is that who i think it is?  I mean the actual actress - as well as her character.  Certainly looks like The Rani and her TARDIS.

I was wondering that myself, once the long shot of the garden was shown on-screen. I immediately started thinking it was designed somewhat like a TARDIS control room.

[Lore]

That would be...interesting. Very interesting...

Did that even happen now? I mean in light of the events of "Day of the Doctor" and "Time of the Doctor". That's the one wrinkle I'm having a hard time seeing Moffet untangle. Of course he could just say it never happened in the first place or he could simply ignore it. I'm just having a hard time seeing the Time Lords of "The End of Time", who have basically gone evil being reconciled with the ones that would give the Doctor a new set of regenerations in "Time of the Doctor". But we'll see. The rumors are saying this year will see the return of the Time Lords.

Until it's actually addressed in-show, I guess all we have are fan-theories.

For now, I think it's simply the safest option to assume that so long as the demands of Moffat's plot lines require it then whether the events of "The End of Time" really happened or not, depends on the showrunners and the season's writers.

[gyedid]

I was wondering that myself, once the long shot of the garden was shown on-screen. I immediately started thinking it was designed somewhat like a TARDIS control room.

Isn't it the same garden that was seen in "The Girl Who Waited" ?

cheers,

Gabe

[jimdigris]

Does anyone remember the name of the ship that crashed and got infested with weeping angels?

[Lorcan Nagle]

Byzantium

[Scotty]

I like Capaldi.  Capaldi does well.

I grow weary of Moffat.  It's okay to have a dark and edgy episode once or twice a series (maybe even three times, pushing it), but I feel like every single episode for the last few series has been dark and edgy, and it has long since worn thin.

[GreenDragon]

@ YingJanshi:
The Day of the Doctor doesn't invalidate End of Time, it simply changes it.  The Council - lead by Rassilon - locked themselves away, and assumed they were thrown into the void along with the Daleks.  The Gallifreyan High Command had no contact with them when all Twelve Doctors arrived to save Gallifrey by moving it into stasis.
From the Council's perspective, things still are exactly as the Doctor has believed.  They were trapped in the Void, with a tether to the Master to bring them back.  And when he died, they were thrown back in.  But they were not in the Void, but Stasis.
And something - likely Rassilon's machinations in End of Time - created a crack.  And the Stasis began leaking.  This created the crack at Trenzalore, which was associated with the destruction of the TARDIS, and the events of the Amy, Rory, River episodes.  And because of that, while Gallifrey is still trapped in another dimension, time is passing - though possibly at less than 1 second per second.  While Rassilon's Council wouldn't likely support the Doctor, there were others, including the High Command and Former President Romana who would.  After all, their continued existence is thanks to the Doctor.  Their best chance to get home is the Doctor.  If he dies, they are trapped for eternity.

[roosterboy]

This created the crack at Trenzalore, which was associated with the destruction of the TARDIS, and the events of the Amy, Rory, River episodes. 

The crack at Trenzalore was created by the explosion of the TARDIS that the Kovarian sect of the Silence caused when they tried to kill the Doctor to prevent him letting the Time Lords through the crack on Trenzalore. It's a paradox.

So this was my first episode of Dr Who in real time after powering through the entirety of the reborn series in the past few months. I've never been a big fan but the prospect of Peter Capaldi as the new Doctor finally convinced me to catch up on the whole thing. He, of course, was awesome.

I very much enjoy Vastra, Jenny and Strax, so it was great to see them again. Though all the marriage jokes were more than a little strained. Man, Vastra sure does treat Jenny poorly; I don't think we've ever really seen that to this extent before. Honestly, it felt like Moffat was recycling some leftover Coupling jokes or something.

Clara... well, at least she finally seems to have gotten the beginnings of a personality. Egomaniac control freak isn't a great characterization, but at least it is a characterization. As opposed to being a walking plot device like she was in series 7. I still don't care for her very much at all, but if they continue to develop her in upcoming episodes, I might have to change that opinion.

All of the "oh no, he's old now" was too heavy-handed and Vastra's condescension towards Clara unmotivated by anything we'd seen to date. Not to mention that this came not that long after Clara met the War Doctor, so I'm not sure why she'd be so freaked out at Eleven regenerating into an older form.

As cool as Michele Gomez is, I'm not really looking forward to how that'll play out. I'm betting it's just going to turn into another chance for Moffat to mistake overly complicated plotting and annoying catchphrases for depth and character development. I'll reserve final judgment, but after the increasing nonsense of the three Matt Smith series I'm not hopeful.

Speaking of which, I hope to all that is good and holy that we've seen the last of River Song.

Finally, why the hell was that T. rex so freakin' big?

[Mecha82]

Speaking of which, I hope to all that is good and holy that we've seen the last of River Song.

Way Missy talked about Doctor made me think that maybe she is evil version of River Song but maybe not. Oh and maybe I am weird but I really liked River Song. 

[Lore]

Speaking of which, I hope to all that is good and holy that we've seen the last of River Song.

Moffat's most recent word on the subject... provided I've not missed anything, has been that while River's story is mostly done, we've yet to see the last of her on-screen.

[GreenDragon]

Because even though her timeline runs in the opposite direction of the Doctor, and we saw their first and last dates in a webisode, obviously her story isn't finished.  Sort of like a pair of companions leaving the TARDIS, and still being series regulars for another year.

[gyedid]

I grow weary of Moffat Hinchcliffe and Holmes.  It's okay to have a dark and edgy gothic episode once or twice a series (maybe even three times, pushing it), but I feel like every single episode for the last few series has been dark and edgy gothic, and it has long since worn thin.

Fixed for you :P

cheers,

Gabe

[gyedid]

@ YingJanshi:
The Day of the Doctor doesn't invalidate End of Time, it simply changes it.  The Council - lead by Rassilon - locked themselves away, and assumed they were thrown into the void along with the Daleks.  The Gallifreyan High Command had no contact with them when all Twelve Doctors arrived to save Gallifrey by moving it into stasis.
From the Council's perspective, things still are exactly as the Doctor has believed.  They were trapped in the Void, with a tether to the Master to bring them back.  And when he died, they were thrown back in.  But they were not in the Void, but Stasis.
And something - likely Rassilon's machinations in End of Time - created a crack.  And the Stasis began leaking.  This created the crack at Trenzalore, which was associated with the destruction of the TARDIS, and the events of the Amy, Rory, River episodes.  And because of that, while Gallifrey is still trapped in another dimension, time is passing - though possibly at less than 1 second per second.  While Rassilon's Council wouldn't likely support the Doctor, there were others, including the High Command and Former President Romana who would.  After all, their continued existence is thanks to the Doctor.  Their best chance to get home is the Doctor.  If he dies, they are trapped for eternity.

This isn't quite correct.  The tether to the Master was to pull Gallifrey not out of stasis, but out of the time lock.  So, the events seen in "The End of Time" have to happen all throughout "The Day of The Doctor"--Gallifrey has to be pulled out of the time lock, and put back in, all in time for the 3 Doctors (War, 10.2, and 11) to summon the other Doctors and seal the planet in another dimension.  10.2 and 11 ought to have known about this and should have stalled for time to make sure Gallifrey would be back in place and the plan would work.  So, we seem forced to suppose that by the time the plan goes off, the events of "The End of Time" have already occurred.  You would think the High Command, or 11,  would've remarked on that though.  (See below, for 10.2 it hasn't happened yet!)

Another difference between "The End of Time" and 'Day of the Doctor' concerns the fact that Gallifrey doesn't appear to be actively under attack by the Daleks in the former--the broken Citadel dome is surrounded by what appear to be dozens, if not hundreds, of wrecked Dalek saucers--whereas in the latter, Gallifrey is under active attack, apparently surrounded by a massive Dalek fleet in orbit, and the Daleks have breached the world's defenses.

So...wouldn't Gallifrey being pulled out of the time lock, but not bringing the orbiting Dalek fleet along with it, have effectively pulled off the 3 Doctors' plan to make Gallifrey disappear and the Dalek ships annihilate each other?

What makes this even more mind-twisting is that when 10.2 arrives on the Ood-Sphere at the beginning of "The End of Time" he's just helped save Gallifrey (he's already had his dalliance with Elizabeth I and jilted her), and he doesn't remember it, while by the end of the episode, he's sent it back to what he's certain is its doom!

cheers,

Gabe

[Wrangler]

I finally watched the episode today.  First episode was enjoyable, I think Capaldi did okay.  I'm not completely sold on his doctor yet, I'd have see more episodes.

I like the cameo, it was touching moment.  Michelle Gomez's episode at end is going to be a scary persona. We have to wait see if Missy is someone we know in different skin or not. Her taunting herself as Doctor's boyfriend is "interesting".  Reviving the half-man demonstrates her being more than she seems.  I don't know if she would be a master.  I wonder if she could be insane version of Romana.  I do think though she crazy batty waiting to happen.

[gyedid]

I like the cameo, it was touching moment.  Michelle Gomez's episode at end is going to be a scary persona. We have to wait see if Missy is someone we know in different skin or not. Her taunting herself as Doctor's boyfriend is "interesting".  Reviving the half-man demonstrates her being more than she seems.  I don't know if she would be a master.  I wonder if she could be insane version of Romana.  I do think though she crazy batty waiting to happen.

Already some wild hypotheses on who "Missy" is:
--The Master, regenerated somehow into a female body ("The Doctor's Wife" established that this is possible for Time Lords)
--The Master, having hijacked the body of a woman close to the Doctor, similar to what he/she/it did to Nyssa's father.  The Master now has all of this person's memories and knowledge of the Doctor.  The somewhat unhinged behaviour hints at this being a continuation of John Simm's "Mad-ster"--new appearance but fundamentally the same personality.  The most chilling possibility is that the unfortunate victim is "that woman"  from "The End of Time" who kept appearing to Donna's father and who appeared behind Rassilon as one of the dissenters.  Russell T Davies has hinted she is the Doctor's mother!
--The Rani.  Probably the most obvious choice.  IIRC, she had a thing for dinosaurs.  Perhaps there's some connection with the dinosaur in "Deep Breath"?
--Romana, having gone bad somehow.  We've seen this happen to other powerful Time Lords.
--River Song, somehow remade into a new, dark form by The Library's computer (data corruption?).  Probably very upset that he didn't come back more often to check up on her.
--The Doctor's old girlfriend from his Time Lord Academy days.  ;D


cheers,

Gabe

[Wrangler]

Already some wild hypotheses on who "Missy" is:
--The Master, regenerated somehow into a female body ("The Doctor's Wife" established that this is possible for Time Lords)
--The Master, having hijacked the body of a woman close to the Doctor, similar to what he/she/it did to Nyssa's father.  The Master now has all of this person's memories and knowledge of the Doctor.  The somewhat unhinged behaviour hints at this being a continuation of John Simm's "Mad-ster"--new appearance but fundamentally the same personality.  The most chilling possibility is that the unfortunate victim is "that woman"  from "The End of Time" who kept appearing to Donna's father and who appeared behind Rassilon as one of the dissenters.  Russell T Davies has hinted she is the Doctor's mother!
--The Rani.  Probably the most obvious choice.  IIRC, she had a thing for dinosaurs.  Perhaps there's some connection with the dinosaur in "Deep Breath"?
--Romana, having gone bad somehow.  We've seen this happen to other powerful Time Lords.
--River Song, somehow remade into a new, dark form by The Library's computer (data corruption?).  Probably very upset that he didn't come back more often to check up on her.
--The Doctor's old girlfriend from his Time Lord Academy days.  ;D


cheers,

Gabe

Well, either case, this may lead to the hinted return of River Song one more time.  If this hussy is going after her man, those are possibly fighting words to her!  ;D

[Lazarus Jaguar]

You know, I keep hearing all theze theories, but no one has yet,that I've seen, suggested my idea, which I first had upon seeing the scene.

She's probably the Black Guardian

[monbvol]

Personally while it may be the most obvious/likely possibility I think it would be best if it is Rani.  The Master coming back while possible would not be near as interesting with how his plot line last stood.

[GreenDragon]

You know, I keep hearing all theze theories, but no one has yet,that I've seen, suggested my idea, which I first had upon seeing the scene.

She's probably the Black Guardian

Now there's a name I haven't heard in a great while...

[monbvol]

I hadn't even really considered that possibility and that could be interesting.