Unified Doctor Who thread

[Lorcan Nagle]

I found it to be very average.  Nothing bad about it, but nothing spectacularly good either.  Some nice bits, great performances from Capaldi and Coleman, and a few scenes that really feel like the writers came up with them at some point in the past and wanted to use them in an episode.

[Jaim Magnus]

I found it to be very average.  Nothing bad about it, but nothing spectacularly good either.  Some nice bits, great performances from Capaldi and Coleman, and a few scenes that really feel like the writers came up with them at some point in the past and wanted to use them in an episode.

And this sums up Moffat's tenure as showrunner.

[roosterboy]

Better than the previous two, but just kinda average. And the entire plot falls apart with just a minimum of thought.

[gyedid]

No comments on "Time Heist"?

Oh, and yet again, confirmation that the Doctor hates himself...

Ruger

I thought we would be seeing less of this. 
It was easy to suppose that the Doctor's self-loathing that we've seen up to this point was rooted in his destruction of Gallifrey and the Time Lords, but now that he (and we) know that wasn't true, this episode shows the root cause(s) of those feelings goes beyond the climax of the Time War.

Capaldi is proving to be a disappointment as the Doctor, IMO.  This was the first episode where he was really front and centre--shades of the 7th Doctor in being the master manipulator--but he didn't really own it the way he should have.  I thought he was actually more effective in "Listen", which was a borderline "Doctor-lite" story.

It's really not clear what this season is building toward.  Don't know if that's good or bad.  It's like none of the episodes are real standouts ("Listen" being the possible key exception), but they're all dropping pieces of a puzzle that many of us still can't fit together, or even see the outline of.

cheers,

Gabe

[monbvol]

*nod*

It was a decent but not great episode but I really feel like the writing is doing a lot of the same old thing that was happening in Smith's era.  Namely that the Doctor getting old and daft thus relying on his companions more to figure things out.  I can tolerate this to a certain degree as we know that the Doctor is getting old/been doing this for a long time and there is a certain element of this is uncharted territory for the Doctor himself but I feel like they're only really exploring that first part without touching on the second very well and like I said that was done already.

[YingJanshi]

I guess I'm in the minority here. But I love Capaldi. And I felt like "Time Heist" is the best episode so far. (Granted, not saying much.)
It seems the strongest episode. "Deep Breath" did a good job on the regeneration and aftermath, but the actual plot was just okay. "Into the Dalek" was good, but just a lessor remake of "Dalek". "Robot of Sherwood" was basically just a silly filler episode. "Listen" was very good one until the end (which just felt unconnected to the previous 30-odd minutes). "Time Heist" just seems the best written and paced of the episodes so far. And I also think it shows that while this Doctor seems more callous and cold, he still does care. But perhaps he's just been around so long, lost so much that he has created this shell to protect himself. Watch his reactions to Saibra and Psi's apparent deaths and the revelation of their surviving. It's subtle, but Capaldi does show the sadness/relief respectively. That's one reason I love his Doctor, his subtlety: under the coldness, the brashness, the emotions are still there to be seen.

As for his "self-loathing", I didn't read it that way. To me it was more the realization that "Hey, these personality traits are really annoying me...wait, I have these traits too." Like when you meet someone that has some trait that just really bugs you and then someone else tells you, "You have that exact same trait".


To be repeat myself from upthread...honestly, I have to say I like Capaldi better than any of the Doctors in the revived series. Better than Eccleston, better than Tennant, certainly better than Smith. He honestly feels more like the classic Doctors than the revived ones. I think part of the problem people are having with him is that he isn't "cuddly". Not like Tennant was, totally unlike Smith was. He's more of a return to the classic Doctors in that he's not safe to be around. Not just because of the trouble he gets into, but because of who he is. He's a bit curmudgeonly like the first Doctor. He jumps into trouble just to satisfy his curiosity (and intentionally put his companions in danger) like the fourth Doctor did on so many occasions. He's pragmatic like the sixth Doctor. He's a bit manipulative like the 7th Doctor. If you look, you could probably find echoes and shades of all of the previous Doctors in his performance. And knowing how big a fan of the show Capaldi is...that's probably very deliberate.

So to sum up...yeah, Capaldi is quickly becoming one of my favorite Doctors. And I really, really hope that he stays longer than one year. Hopefully outstays Moffet so he gets some scripts to match his abilities. And hopefully gets a companion that is more character than plot point.

[I am Belch II]

Is not the Peter Capaldi and playing of the Doctor 12 is the problem. I think he does as good as he can. The Doctor seems like Dr House playing the Dr. He even wrote stuff down on a chalkboard.

It the episodes to me, they are ok, but nothing overly great. I know it's early in the series, but they are just not as good as the other seasons.

[gyedid]

Better than the previous two, but just kinda average. And the entire plot falls apart with just a minimum of thought.

Like how the Doctor broke into the bank without being detected in order to set everything up, just so he could break into the bank again with his team after they had wiped their minds?


cheers,

Gabe

[Mecha82]

Over all that was rather interesting episode. Doctor doing heist with his team was rather thrilling.

Faking deaths of Psi and Sabrina was rather suprising. I really thought they had died before it was released that they were not dead.

[monbvol]

Like how the Doctor broke into the bank without being detected in order to set everything up, just so he could break into the bank again with his team after they had wiped their minds?


cheers,

Gabe

Actually that is the easy part to explain/holds up best.  He could use the TARDIS to put the items he would need into position but something about the final private vault prevents the TARDIS from being able to land there(which it has been shown in the series previously it is possible to TARDIS proof areas/rooms).  So to gain final entry he needed the team and the plan.

[YingJanshi]

Actually that is the easy part to explain/holds up best.  He could use the TARDIS to put the items he would need into position but something about the final private vault prevents the TARDIS from being able to land there(which it has been shown in the series previously it is possible to TARDIS proof areas/rooms).  So to gain final entry he needed the team and the plan.

As the Doctor said, the solar storm interfered with the TARDIS.

[Lorcan Nagle]

And this sums up Moffat's tenure as showrunner.

It sums up pretty much every era of the show IMO.  There's always enough diamonds in the rough and fun stories to keep me around.

[mdauben]

No comments on "Time Heist"?

Just got a chance to watch it last night.  Another good one, I think.  Some interesting situations involved, and the the Doctor's reason for agreeing to take part in "The Heist" was a surprise (to me at least).  Plus Clara didn't annoy me as much this time.   ;)

Better than the previous two, but just kinda average. And the entire plot falls apart with just a minimum of thought.

Perhaps compared to the best of the episodes of the new Doctor Who, but I think this season is doing... pretty well.  My own opinion of the current seasons runs something like this:

• Deep Breath - 8 out of 10
• Into the Dalek - 6.5 out of 10
• Robot of Sherwood - 5 out of 10
• Listen - 8 out of 10
• Time Heist - 7.5 out of 10

I guess I'm in the minority here. But I love Capaldi.

I'm with you.  I really like Capaldi and the way he's playing the Doctor.  Its certainly very different than Ten and Eleven, but I think that's a good thing, myself.  We needed something different with this regeneration. 

[roosterboy]

"The Caretaker": Best episode of the season so far.

I love Capaldi's grouchy Doctor.

I wasn't really sold on Danny Pink at first because he comes across as so bland, but I enjoyed his interactions with the Doctor here. I'm looking forward to when he starts traveling in the TARDIS. His acrobatics were a little over the top, though.

And Clara is finally becoming more of a character. They showed some progress at the start of the season and then backslid a bit but this episode was a step in the right direction. She has good chemistry with Capaldi, that's for sure, much more than she had with Smith.

Nice expansion of the mystery of Missy this time around. And it's always nice to see Chris Addison.

[Sharpnel]

It's too bad that Jenna-Louise (Clara0 is leaving after the XMas special. I really do enjoy her character.

[Lorcan Nagle]

That's still just a rumour, right?

[Sharpnel]

AFAIK it's for real.

[roosterboy]

Nothing has been officially said and Coleman is coy about it in intervies, neither confirming nor denying.

[Mecha82]

Interaction between Doctor and Pink was actually funny so having another robot as threat didn't bother me. 

[Ruger]

"The Caretaker": Best episode of the season so far.

I love Capaldi's grouchy Doctor.

I wasn't really sold on Danny Pink at first because he comes across as so bland, but I enjoyed his interactions with the Doctor here. I'm looking forward to when he starts traveling in the TARDIS. His acrobatics were a little over the top, though.

And Clara is finally becoming more of a character. They showed some progress at the start of the season and then backslid a bit but this episode was a step in the right direction. She has good chemistry with Capaldi, that's for sure, much more than she had with Smith.

Nice expansion of the mystery of Missy this time around. And it's always nice to see Chris Addison.

Believe I agree with you on all points here RB...

Ruger

[worktroll]

The Scobie Bryant (or whatever) was very lame; however, it was just a mcguffin to precipitate the Danny/Doctor clashes.

Capaldi's acting was a pleasure, even in the somewhat silly scenes.

[mathesont]

Was off at a course so today I sat down for a triple feature of "Listen", "Time Heist" and "The Caretaker" to catch up.

Listen - Hints of what a Capaldi Doctor is capable of but for all the running around the episode really did nothing and that bugged me.

Time Heist - Unimaginative, predictable dribble with the Doctor running around literally clueless for most of the episode before we are told how clever he really was at the end.  Would have been much better if they showed us the prep work and ended with everyone reaching for a worm.

Caretaker - Flimsy story, typical of the season, and the Doctor annoyed me almost as much as his bickering with Robin Hood.  Got nothing against Capaldi, think he could be a great Doctor, but the writers don't seem to be able to write for him so... shrug.

Have been watching the Doctor since #2 so will keep going but enthusiasm waning.

[YingJanshi]

Just thought I'd share these...

[YingJanshi]

Okay, so watched "Caretaker" tonight:

Honestly, I think it's the best writing of the season so far. I'll put that down to Gareth Roberts. I think this has been Clara's best episode so far. And I like how they've handled her trips with the Doctor. It's one thing very few of the other companions have tried to do. Live a normal life and travel with the Doctor as well. They did it with Amy and Rory, but I don't think it quite worked then. There was never really a sense that they had any life away from the Doctor. But Clara does, especially with Danny Pink. (Who I thought was pretty good btw, his acrobatics not withstanding).
The Doctor has always seemed to have a thing against soldiers, now even more pronounced (maybe because he finds their mentality so close to his own at times?).
Also...Capaldi...brilliant!!! I really liked him in this episode. Was having a lot of flashbacks to Hartnell. You can tell he is enjoying the role immensely. Now, I don't know the real order they were filmed in, and I don't know how much of it is the scripts. But to me, this episode feels like the one where Capaldi has finally worn into the Doctor. And I can't wait to see how he develops further. If the Christmas special really is his last episode as the Doctor...I'm going to be heartbroken....
Now, the only thing I didn't like about this episode was the monster. Just plain found it silly. Just couldn't take it seriously. Sort of like the last round of the Cybermen (Nightmare in Silver). Just...no menace what's so ever.
In conclusion...it will be interesting to see Danny and the Doctor sizing each other up in the coming episodes. It's intentional of course...but if you really look at each character...they are very similar. Both were soldiers, both grew tired of it, both are now trying to do something more in life.

Hm...just thought of something...all the male companions of the revived series have had similar names: Mickey...Rory...Danny...

[worktroll]

The Doctor has always seemed to have a thing against soldiers, now even more pronounced (maybe because he finds their mentality so close to his own at times?).

I'm afraid I have to disagree strongly here, on behalf of Sargeant Benton, Captain Yates, Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, and the other members of UNIT. The 3rd Doctor had no problems dealign with soldiers then, beyond the usual "smarter than you" issues common to all incarnations. The 4th Doctor also had a useful relationship with UNIT.

I'd have said it was something new since the Time War, except note that the death of the Brigadier played an inportant point in Matt Smith's Doctor facing (sort of) hsi own death - he'd have hardly been so moved by the Brig's passing had he always had problems with soldiers, no?

[YingJanshi]

I'm afraid I have to disagree strongly here, on behalf of Sargeant Benton, Captain Yates, Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, and the other members of UNIT. The 3rd Doctor had no problems dealign with soldiers then, beyond the usual "smarter than you" issues common to all incarnations. The 4th Doctor also had a useful relationship with UNIT.

I'd have said it was something new since the Time War, except note that the death of the Brigadier played an inportant point in Matt Smith's Doctor facing (sort of) hsi own death - he'd have hardly been so moved by the Brig's passing had he always had problems with soldiers, no?

Go rewatch those again. (Especially "Doctor Who and the Silurians") It took him a bit of time to warm up to them. And they've always been the exception rather than the rule. Mostly because the Brig did listen to the Doctor. But then again, how many times did the 3rd Doctor and the Brig argue over the best way to approach any given situation? (Just about every episode I'd wager.) That's really what he despises most. The shoot first, clean up later approach. The only time he will give any military character any sort of respect is if they listen to him. (And I think we'll see the Doctor warm up to Danny.)

Though it has been more pronounced since the Time War, I will agree with that. But could that philosophical dislike for what the military represents have turned something stronger because of what the Doctor had to do in the Time War?

[gyedid]

Though it has been more pronounced since the Time War, I will agree with that. But could that philosophical dislike for what the military represents have turned something stronger because of what the Doctor had to do in the Time War?

There are 2 times in his life when the Doctor has been forced into the role of soldier:  the Time War, and the Siege of Trenzalore, which you can think of as re-fighting the Time War in miniature.   In both cases, he wore out an incarnation fighting.  I would suggest his current disdain for soldiers stems from the latter phase.  Although, it's never been specified just what the extent of his activities during the Time War were (and I thought we'd turned the page on that after "Day of the Doctor").  He may have done a lot of things that other incarnations would've considered atrocities.  Whatever they were, I don't think #11 engaged in any such activities himself as he aged through the Siege.  However, he may have seen other things perpetrated by the forces of the Church of the Papal Mainframe.

Speaking of that church...is it actually supposed to be a distant future descendent of the Catholic Church (or maybe the Anglican Church), or some new religion spawned when humanity spread into space?  And is it the same as the militarized church forces seen in "Time of Angels" and "A Good Man Goes To War"?


And in the Time War, "Day of the Doctor" suggests that among the Gallifreyan power structure, it was the military, and not the High Council, that managed to maintain some shreds of decency.


cheers,

Gabe

[Istal_Devalis]

Interaction between Doctor and Pink was actually funny so having another robot as threat didn't bother me.

I don't mind a robot. I just wish it wasn't such a silly looking robot.

[roosterboy]

Eh, it wasn't any sillier looking than any other modern Who robot. I was fine with it since the fight against the whatever blitzer really wasn't the story being told in this episode.

[gyedid]

Eh, it wasn't any sillier looking than any other modern Who robot. I was fine with it since the fight against the whatever blitzer really wasn't the story being told in this episode.

I thought it was rather Battletech-looking myself!  ;D  The Marauder-pod-type arm?  Pulse lasers?  Colossal-like tripod design?  (Well OK, definitely not the size, but...)

And yes...the first episode where I actually liked Capaldi's Doctor--like Hartnell on crystal meth.  Great chemistry all around among the 3 leads.

cheers,

Gabe