Author Topic: Unified Doctor Who thread (Read 147491 times)

monbvol · « **Reply #840 on:** 29 September 2014, 14:29:15 »

It was an interesting episode and I do tend to agree that the Doctor is growing more anti-soldier then he used to be and it could easily be explained by events in his relatively recent past.

And yes the Church of the Mainframe is the same church as seen in a "A Good Man Goes to War" as evidenced that the Doctor chastised Tasha Lem at Trenzalore for Madame Kovarian's actions.

jimdigris · « **Reply #841 on:** 01 October 2014, 15:25:37 »

I have to wonder if the Doctor has become anti-soldier because he is afraid that he was turning into that. In the "Dalek" episode, when he shares minds with the Dalek, it finds common ground in the hatred that the Doctor feels for the Daleks. He may feel that being around soldiers may bring more of that out of him.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #842 on:** 01 October 2014, 17:09:26 »

He is still very upset for what he did being War Doctor. Being "War" Doctor would make you a solider fighting, no matter if you are a offical soldier or not. He hates soliders becuase he hates what he did.

Just my 2cents. If Im wrong, I am.

Ruger · « **Reply #843 on:** 04 October 2014, 21:02:25 »

"Kill the Moon"...I could see why the Doctor did what he did, but I also completely understand Clara's reaction...

Ruger

YingJanshi · « **Reply #844 on:** 06 October 2014, 21:36:12 »

No thoughts on "Kill the Moon"? Really?

I think it was mostly a good episode. Yes, there were absolutely huuuge plot holes. Yes, the science was unbelievably atrocious. But, the moral dilemma, the emotional depth of the episode let me over look all of that. Only have a few observations to make.
1) This is Jenna Coleman's best episode of Doctor Who. Hands down. I was never really sold on her, have always enjoyed her more than Amy (probably me least favorite companion of all time) and Rose (who was good...but became too much of fan favorite), but with 11 she was never anything more than a living plot point. I feel with Series 8 she is finally becoming a real character. A real flesh and blood character.
2) I've been reading a lot of hate for Doctor #12. That he is too cold, too uncaring. Too dark. And honestly, I don't see that. He does care, it's just...he has become so remote, he sees humans as his pets. Now, this isn't my idea, just read it as a comment on a review of the episode, but I think it perfectly captures the Twelfth Doctor: "That last scene, where we see his deep care and respect for Clara mingling with hurt at being rejected mingling with utter bafflement at being criticized mingling with utter conviction that he's in the right is just perfect".

monbvol · « **Reply #845 on:** 06 October 2014, 22:49:39 »

It was an interesting episode and completely understandable for both sides to act the way they did.

roosterboy · « **Reply #846 on:** 06 October 2014, 22:50:04 »

I was utterly bored by "Kill the Moon". And Clara's big moment at the end felt unearned.

gyedid · « **Reply #847 on:** 06 October 2014, 23:39:46 »

Quote from: I am Belch II on 01 October 2014, 17:09:26

He is still very upset for what he did being War Doctor. Being "War" Doctor would make you a solider fighting, no matter if you are a offical soldier or not. He hates soliders becuase he hates what he did.

Just my 2cents. If Im wrong, I am.

Yes, but we still don't know the full extent of what he did during the Time War. He no longer has to live with believing he destroyed Gallifrey, but what other activities did he engage in during that time that would earn the odium of both previous and subsequent incarnations? Clearly, the War Doctor was different from the others in a number of ways...I mean, can you picture any of the other incarnations using the TARDIS as a battering ram?

cheers,

Gabe

YingJanshi · « **Reply #848 on:** 07 October 2014, 06:49:49 »

Quote from: roosterboy on 06 October 2014, 22:50:04

I was utterly bored by "Kill the Moon". And Clara's big moment at the end felt unearned.

In what way?

I felt it was completely understandable. I mean the Doctor abandoned her. Completely.
It's about time the Doctor is called out for stuff like this (and especially this Doctor).

Istal_Devalis · « **Reply #849 on:** 07 October 2014, 07:18:16 »

They were both right.

It really was humanity's decision to make...but the Doctor was rather a large prick about it.

gyedid · « **Reply #850 on:** 07 October 2014, 09:01:00 »

Quote from: YingJanshi on 07 October 2014, 06:49:49

In what way?

I felt it was completely understandable. I mean the Doctor abandoned her. Completely.
It's about time the Doctor is called out for stuff like this (and especially this Doctor).

I could understand if it were clear that the Doctor is grooming Clara for something greater, but it's not at all clear he's doing that. And doing what he did...was so very 7th Doctor. In fact, it's even more 7th than McCoy's version! Clara really needs to meet Ace and compare notes. ;D

cheers,

Gabe

roosterboy · « **Reply #851 on:** 07 October 2014, 15:50:56 »

Quote from: YingJanshi on 07 October 2014, 06:49:49

In what way?

I felt it was completely understandable. I mean the Doctor abandoned her. Completely.
It's about time the Doctor is called out for stuff like this (and especially this Doctor).

I just didn't buy it coming from her with how her characterization has been to date. It felt like she only said that stuff because that's what the plot required, not because her character would actually feel those things at that point in her relationship with the Doctor. Maybe farther down the road, after he pulled a few more stunts like that or disappointed her in other ways, but not now.

worktroll · « **Reply #852 on:** 07 October 2014, 16:53:58 »

I don't know if it's intentional, or a Lucasian oversight, but consider in "Listen", Clara and the Doctor were shown departing on and returning from a number of "undocumented" adventures (eg. the opening scene of them chained to rocks in a desert). Perhaps we're meant to assume more character development as a result of things we're not shown and not really told about?

W.

roosterboy · « **Reply #853 on:** 07 October 2014, 17:23:33 »

That was actually in last week's "The Caretaker" but that could be. If that were the case, however, it would be ridiculously shitty writing.

But I don't actually think it is the case; I just think the Who writers have no idea what they're doing with Clara and feel free to write her as needed for the plot, heedless of things like motivation or setup. Which is odd, given how long they teased Amy and Rory growing apart from Eleven and desiring a more normal life before actually pulling that trigger. So they can do it, they just choose not to with Clara for whatever reason. That's kind of been a problem with her all along.

monbvol · « **Reply #854 on:** 07 October 2014, 18:46:35 »

In retrospect I do tend to think roosterboy is on to something. It would make a lot more sense if Clara hadn't been established as remembering(at least partially) her time scattered across the Doctor's incarnations.

gyedid · « **Reply #855 on:** 07 October 2014, 22:20:13 »

Quote from: worktroll on 07 October 2014, 16:53:58

I don't know if it's intentional, or a Lucasian oversight, but consider in "Listen", Clara and the Doctor were shown departing on and returning from a number of "undocumented" adventures (eg. the opening scene of them chained to rocks in a desert). Perhaps we're meant to assume more character development as a result of things we're not shown and not really told about?

W.

I certainly think so; such development would've started in the time between "Name of the Doctor", when Clara is still a live-in nanny; when we next see her in "Day of the Doctor", she's become a teacher at Coal Hill. (What qualifications does one need to be a high school teacher in the UK, anyway? In Canada, a M.Ed. is mandatory.) Presumably she sorted out a number things about her life in the interim.

Also, we've seen hints dropped in previous episodes that Clara has not been seeing, or rather I think, choosing not to see, the truth of some negative aspects of the new Doctor's character. And with his behaviour in "Kill the Moon", she can't look the other way anymore. I would say that deep down, she still considers #11 "her" Doctor, and keeps wanting and hoping that #12 will eventually be like him. And now she's realized, in an amazingly painful way, that this is not "her" Doctor--that the hacker from "Time Heist" and Danny were right--and she'll never be able to have the dynamic with him she did before. (I'd also say this is a pretty good sign Jenna Coleman will, in fact, be leaving the show.)

When was the last time the Doctor and a companion actually parted amicably?

cheers,

Gabe

worktroll · « **Reply #856 on:** 07 October 2014, 23:06:44 »

Leela stays on Gallifrey and marries a Gallifrean soldier, IIRC, so that should count. And Adric crashes into the earth in an out-of-control spaceship and wipes out the dinosaurs.

What?

It made me happy ...

Pat Payne · « **Reply #857 on:** 07 October 2014, 23:42:22 »

EDIT -- never mind, I misread the post...

Sarah Jane left the TARDIS on good terms with Four... even though he did leave her accidentally in Aberdeen... ;D

monbvol · « **Reply #858 on:** 07 October 2014, 23:58:25 »

Quote from: gyedid on 07 October 2014, 22:20:13

I certainly think so; such development would've started in the time between "Name of the Doctor", when Clara is still a live-in nanny; when we next see her in "Day of the Doctor", she's become a teacher at Coal Hill. (What qualifications does one need to be a high school teacher in the UK, anyway? In Canada, a M.Ed. is mandatory.) Presumably she sorted out a number things about her life in the interim.

Also, we've seen hints dropped in previous episodes that Clara has not been seeing, or rather I think, choosing not to see, the truth of some negative aspects of the new Doctor's character. And with his behaviour in "Kill the Moon", she can't look the other way anymore. I would say that deep down, she still considers #11 "her" Doctor, and keeps wanting and hoping that #12 will eventually be like him. And now she's realized, in an amazingly painful way, that this is not "her" Doctor--that the hacker from "Time Heist" and Danny were right--and she'll never be able to have the dynamic with him she did before. (I'd also say this is a pretty good sign Jenna Coleman will, in fact, be leaving the show.)

When was the last time the Doctor and a companion actually parted amicably?

cheers,

Gabe

And this is why I think her reaction is at least somewhat plausible.

roosterboy · « **Reply #859 on:** 08 October 2014, 01:19:30 »

It's not character development if it happens offscreen, though. That's just writers using the characters as plot devices. Which has been Clara's problem all along.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #860 on:** 08 October 2014, 02:22:55 »

The newer episodes seem to me more about Clara instead of the new doctor. It almost seemed almost 50/50 with Clara and Dr.12. Which is ok becuase Jenna is a great actress and finally able to act now. But it is also called Dr. who and Peter is a great actor and should be a little more then what he gets.

Lazarus Jaguar · « **Reply #861 on:** 08 October 2014, 22:30:17 »

That seems to be par for cohrse with the nuWho. The companions are made just as important, sometimes even more so, than the Doctor.

Remember the first two seasons, when Billie Piper was the star of the show?

gyedid · « **Reply #862 on:** 10 October 2014, 22:41:58 »

Next episode, "Mummy On the Orient Express", looks to be another humorous one-off, not tied to the season arc (which has been rather loose).

Something perhaps significant: Clara didn't appear in any of the previews...(?) So, this one is intended as a Capaldi vehicle, I take it.

cheers,

Gabe

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #863 on:** 12 October 2014, 13:06:50 »

Just in case you don't know, Perkins wasplayed by Frank Skinner, a comedian, chat show host and TV personality in the UK...

monbvol · « **Reply #864 on:** 12 October 2014, 21:29:38 »

I'm honestly not sure what it is they are wanting to do with Clara at this point but overall I kind of liked how the Doctor did remind her that he can't always save everyone and sometimes people do have to die before he can prevail all while knowing that is the case.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #865 on:** 12 October 2014, 23:08:33 »

I liked the Train episode. It reminded me of classic dr who. Weird scifi plot, and the Doctor with the answer.

gyedid · « **Reply #866 on:** 13 October 2014, 01:28:43 »

Quote from: monbvol on 12 October 2014, 21:29:38

I'm honestly not sure what it is they are wanting to do with Clara at this point but overall I kind of liked how the Doctor did remind her that he can't always save everyone and sometimes people do have to die before he can prevail all while knowing that is the case.

What a difference a week makes (though it was several weeks in story time). That was actually quite a disturbing ending, if you think about it--the idea that for Clara, traveling with the Doctor is an addiction she can't kick. No matter how badly it hurts you and those around you, you always find a way to rationalize going back for more. First the Doctor lied to her (well, he did as #11 too, although much more charmingly), then he got her to lie on his behalf, and by the end of it, she's lying of her own volition--to Danny, to the Doctor, and to herself.

I think a big part in her turnaround, though, is that this was a case where the Doctor clearly played the hero--pretty much exactly the way Clara still wants him to be. He was willing to bet the farm in order to solve the mystery of the mummy, and he saved everybody (still alive anyway) at the end, rekindling whatever embers of hope Clara still clings to.

The two guys--Moorehouse and Quell--who basically sacrificed themselves for the Doctor were not taken up by Missy and/or Seb. How does one have to die to merit being invited to their "afterlife"?

And is Gus, or whoever is behind him/it, affiliated with either of the above? Or is this yet another hidden actor? Seems the TARDIS' phone number isn't such a huge secret.

cheers,

Gabe

Ruger · « **Reply #867 on:** 18 October 2014, 20:08:30 »

It's the Incredible Shrinking TARDIS!!!!

Edit 1: Interesting episode. Clara had to be the Doctor since he was stuck in the TARDIS...she was really good at it, but you could tell that upset the Doctor...most likely because it signifies that he's making another companion into a warrior who thinks of the greater good ilo of the individual good, and therefore is willing to sacrifice the few to save the many...

Ruger

Edit 2: Actually, I think I'm going to change my mind...it wasn't that the Doctor was upset he was changing Clara...I think it was more that she didn't recognize the changes herself, and that he's still questioning whether or not he's a "good man"...His statement that she was an extraordinary Doctor, but that this isn't necessarily "good" shows that this is still the case...

And I cannot wait to find out exactly what is up with Missy...

GreenDragon · « **Reply #868 on:** 19 October 2014, 19:18:41 »

I can't believe that the season is almost over already. But Sherlock is coming to BBCA the same night as the finale. I hope that means the new season, and that we don't have to wait for next spring to watch the new episodes on PBS/Masterpiece Mystery. Because the cliffhanger ending was almost as interesting as figuring out how Holmes survived that fall.

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #869 on:** 20 October 2014, 00:45:47 »

I'm not sure if Sherlock series 4 has even started production yet. It's definitely not aired yet anyway.