What are the chances we could see these again?

[wolfspider]

I was looking on the Camo Specs website and I noticed that the Ost series (Ostroc, Ostsol, Ostscout)  of mechs seem to be allowed to be shown again so what are the chances that we could see these 3 mechs from Iron Wind?

[JadeHellbringer]

I was looking on the Camo Specs website and I noticed that the Ost series (Ostroc, Ostsol, Ostscout)  of mechs seem to be allowed to be shown again so what are the chances that we could see these 3 mechs from Iron Wind?

Well... I don't want to say 'none', but... nearly none.

Thing is, in theory Catalyst can also use the second-line designs from 3055 as well (Kraken, Hellhound, etc.) in their original formats. They've decided not to- all images of those machines are the reseen version, even though legally they didn't need to do that. The policy (as was explained a few years ago) is to only use in-house designs in artwork- it heads of any more unseen unpleasantness in court in the future if they don't even risk it again.

So, while technically they could probably use them without it getting ugly... it also appears to be something that Catalyst-and as a result, Iron Wind- just aren't really looking to get into.

In the meantime though, all three turned out very nice in the reseen format (the Ostscout in particular), so it's not a total loss.

[Akalabeth]

If that's the policy, why does artwork for the original Locust show up in some of the record sheets? I think some of the other dougram mechs do as well.

[Pat Payne]

That was during a small period right after determining they were legally in the clear with everything other than Macross while they were testing the waters -- I know that early versions of RSOK had the non-Macross unseen, for instance. Someone, whether Topps or CGL however decided against it full scale, and we're at the situation JadeHellbringer mentioned..

[ColBosch]

The Ost series is original artwork, though. They were somewhat based on the Macross alien mecha, but are clearly very different. The problem with them is that while they're legally free and clear, they're just not very popular.

...and don't bother posting "but I like 'em!" Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, but in general the Ost series doesn't have a lot of fans.

[blackjack]

I refuse your reality! I for one love the OSTS. Ostroc most of all. Don't care to much for the new ostroc minis in comparison to the old one. New Ostsol is a wash. New Ostscout is a home run.

[mike19k]

I refuse your reality! I for one love the OSTS. Ostroc most of all. Don't care to much for the new ostroc minis in comparison to the old one. New Ostsol is a wash. New Ostscout is a home run.

I also know that they are some of the most sought after minis in my area. We keep hoping that they will come back, would love to see them offer a Ost pack.

[00Dawg]

...and don't bother posting "but I like 'em!" Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, but in general the Ost series doesn't have a lot of fans.

Negative, Ghostrider.  That pattern is indeed full.

[Col.Hengist]

Yea, you're going to get a LOT of people saying they like the old osts. Me included. While the new ostroc has grown on me the new ostsol is u-g-l-y. I much prefer the unseen and that one is ugly too. The ostscout is a toss up .

 I'm still waiting for the old charger.

[cavingjan]

I'm still waiting for the old charger.

Old Charger? As in 5 small laser Charger? That has been available for a while now.

[Col.Hengist]

No kidding? I'll have another look.

[cavingjan]

Added right before my son was born. (I remember the article while waiting at the hospital)

[mike19k]

I did not know they brought it back, but you are right. It is an online exclusive.

[cavingjan]

The non-jumping Panther, Awesome, and Banshee were re-released at the same time as the Charger.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,28924.0.html

[Col.Hengist]

The old awesome is back!!!! SCHWEEEEEET!

[Khell]

I can understand Topps/CGL's desire to stay out of any potential legal problems with the unseen, but at some level they will also have to acknowledge that the unseen represent some of the most popular designs Battletech has ever had, aesthetically as well as functionally.  And I know they realize this, because so many of the newer designs are attempts at cashing in on the stylistic looks of those unseen.  Hammerhands for example, being the box-art for the 25th Anniversary box, as a direct homage to the 2nd edition box's Warhammer...

At some point, they might have to consider that Battletech is incomplete without the unseen.  Project Phoenix was an awesome move on Fanpro's part, and is a great way to update the unseen designs for civil-war and later era play, but for everything Star League thru to the 3060's, the original unseen are core battletech.  If they re-licensed the rights, sales of the unseen would skyrocket, and that currently untapped revenue has to be considerable.  Yeah, I guess that IWM is the one who would benefit more than CGL, but IWM sales equate to investment in CGL's game.  More players with more money sunk into Battletech is always good for CGL.

I've constantly wondered...how well would a kickstarter project work.  Kickstarter buying back the rights.  I bet it would overfund within a week.  Just look at how quick the money poured in for Robotech RPG Tactics.  Easily half of that money was from Mechwarriors hoping to use the Robotech minis for Battletech.

[wolfspider]

I think it would be a problem with trying to buy back the rights even with a kick starter and now that Robotech will use many of these designs in their new game next to impossible. But I would love to see a kick starter to redesign the unseen and you could start with the reseen and go backwards. Make that missing link between the Primitives and the Project Phoenix mechs.

[SteelWarrior]

I can understand Topps/CGL's desire to stay out of any potential legal problems with the unseen, but at some level they will also have to acknowledge that the unseen represent some of the most popular designs Battletech has ever had, aesthetically as well as functionally.  And I know they realize this, because so many of the newer designs are attempts at cashing in on the stylistic looks of those unseen.  Hammerhands for example, being the box-art for the 25th Anniversary box, as a direct homage to the 2nd edition box's Warhammer...

At some point, they might have to consider that Battletech is incomplete without the unseen.  Project Phoenix was an awesome move on Fanpro's part, and is a great way to update the unseen designs for civil-war and later era play, but for everything Star League thru to the 3060's, the original unseen are core battletech.  If they re-licensed the rights, sales of the unseen would skyrocket, and that currently untapped revenue has to be considerable.  Yeah, I guess that IWM is the one who would benefit more than CGL, but IWM sales equate to investment in CGL's game.  More players with more money sunk into Battletech is always good for CGL.

I've constantly wondered...how well would a kickstarter project work.  Kickstarter buying back the rights.  I bet it would overfund within a week.  Just look at how quick the money poured in for Robotech RPG Tactics.  Easily half of that money was from Mechwarriors hoping to use the Robotech minis for Battletech.

No one is going to pay $15 for a metal warhammer when you can get 2 multipart, posible, easy to mod Tomahawks from RRT for the same price.

The unseen may be loved but most of the reseen are accepted and in some cases prefered.  If you play all the eras you dont notice the lack of unseen as much as if your a die hard 3025er

[Akalabeth]

I can understand Topps/CGL's desire to stay out of any potential legal problems with the unseen, but at some level they will also have to acknowledge that the unseen represent some of the most popular designs Battletech has ever had, aesthetically as well as functionally.  And I know they realize this, because so many of the newer designs are attempts at cashing in on the stylistic looks of those unseen.  Hammerhands for example, being the box-art for the 25th Anniversary box, as a direct homage to the 2nd edition box's Warhammer...

At some point, they might have to consider that Battletech is incomplete without the unseen.  Project Phoenix was an awesome move on Fanpro's part, and is a great way to update the unseen designs for civil-war and later era play, but for everything Star League thru to the 3060's, the original unseen are core battletech.  If they re-licensed the rights, sales of the unseen would skyrocket, and that currently untapped revenue has to be considerable.  Yeah, I guess that IWM is the one who would benefit more than CGL, but IWM sales equate to investment in CGL's game.  More players with more money sunk into Battletech is always good for CGL.

I've constantly wondered...how well would a kickstarter project work.  Kickstarter buying back the rights.  I bet it would overfund within a week.  Just look at how quick the money poured in for Robotech RPG Tactics.  Easily half of that money was from Mechwarriors hoping to use the Robotech minis for Battletech.

Um, I'm just guessing but I don't think Harmony Gold would be keen on giving them the rights. I mean Palladium Books already has the rights for it. This game of theirs looks promising, I'm not sure that they would license the rights to another company for the same machines. They didn't lose the rights, they never had them in the first place or somesuch as both HG and FASA licensed from different companies.

It's unfortunate though that Battletech didn't get rights akin to Star Fleet Battles. ADB or at the time, Task Force games licensed the rights to a Star Trek TOS from Franz Joseph or something, and went with it. Now a days people with licenses can't also license what they have to other people but at the time they could. If not ADB might not have the rights to any Star Trek stuff right now.

What's  happening is that IWM seems to be coming out with Primitive designs that will work as the 3025 variations of these mechs and hopefully are good substitutes.


If they kickstart anything they should kickstart getting the novel rights back.

[SteelWarrior]

Hell the primitive shadow hawk looks super close to the unseen version....

[Khell]

If they kickstart anything they should kickstart getting the novel rights back.

That I would totally back, on the condition that they print the novels, not just ePub.  Call me old fashioned, but I don't pay for digital copies of something that belongs on physical media.  And I don't like having to get up from my gaming table and check my computer every time I need something that should be in a nice handy book.  Lying in bed with a 23" LCD monitor just isn't as comfortable as a mass-market paperback either, and very hard on the eyes.

[Col.Hengist]

That's what the kindle, Ipad or iother similarce readers are for.

[Akalabeth]

That I would totally back, on the condition that they print the novels, not just ePub.  Call me old fashioned, but I don't pay for digital copies of something that belongs on physical media.  And I don't like having to get up from my gaming table and check my computer every time I need something that should be in a nice handy book.  Lying in bed with a 23" LCD monitor just isn't as comfortable as a mass-market paperback either, and very hard on the eyes.

Get a kindle or a kobo for ebook reading.
But yes I still prefer paper as well and everytime I'm in chapters, I get the impression that books aren't going away any time soon.

[SteelWarrior]

I would back a KS for the book rights as well.  I have both paperback and a Kobo Touch E-Reader, it took a while to get used to it, but now it feels like im reading a normal book, except I dont have to hold the pages open or worry about the spine going south on me.  Mine is not back-lit, so you need a good light source, just like a normal book.

[Khell]

Get a kindle or a kobo for ebook reading.
But yes I still prefer paper as well and everytime I'm in chapters, I get the impression that books aren't going away any time soon.

That's what the kindle, Ipad or iother similarce readers are for.

As I said before, call me old-fashioned, but I don't buy into this digital book thing.  There are multiple reasons why, but the largest is that I see it as trading away more than what is gained.  If the laws and practices surrounding digital media change, I may revise my position, but as things are now I would never pay for something that I didn't get a physical copy of, be it a disc, book, or otherwise.

[GRUD]

No one is going to pay $15 for a metal warhammer when you can get 2 multipart, posible, easy to mod Tomahawks from RRT for the same price.

The unseen may be loved but most of the reseen are accepted and in some cases prefered.  If you play all the eras you dont notice the lack of unseen as much as if your a die hard 3025er

I'd GLADLY pay IWM $15.00 for a new Unseen Warhammer, rather than put a penny into HG's hands.  Not that I really Need any more Whammy's that is.  :D  But still . . .   And I'm just one of MANY BT players that got their start back in the early days of the game ('86 for me), and while I Accept most of the Reseen, there's not a single one of them that I'd Prefer over an Unseen.  Sure, I didn't like the looks of most of the Reseen when they first came out, but I've come to like them at least.  I'm still not too sure about the Reseen Valkyrie though, as (to ME at least) it looks so VASTLY Different from the Unseen sculpt as to be a new design entirely.  The first time I saw a picture of one posted, I had to ask what it was because I didn't recognize it.  :-\


As for the whole epub deal, why should I have to invest $50+ for some new techno-gizmo-thingie, just to be able to read a book?  I'm with Khell (and probably Many others), in that I prefer a good paperback over an ebook.  While I don't read in bed, I got in the habit LONG ago of taking a book with me when I go to an appointment anywhere, and I really can't stuff my laptop (let alone my desktop!) into my coat or cargo pocket.  #P  Maybe if my pants had a "Cargo Pocket of Holding" I'd be able to.  :D  I'm still curious as to why they can print the BattleCorps Anthologies, but not "New BT Fiction" ?  I wonder if it's because the stories ARE published on the BattleCorps website first, and so they're not exactly "brand new" stories?  ???  I'm sure there's some "Legalese" involved that I know nothing about, but it still makes me wonder.

[DaveMac]

As I said before, call me old-fashioned, but I don't buy into this digital book thing.  There are multiple reasons why, but the largest is that I see it as trading away more than what is gained.  If the laws and practices surrounding digital media change, I may revise my position, but as things are now I would never pay for something that I didn't get a physical copy of, be it a disc, book, or otherwise.

Likewise matey

[Khell]

I'd GLADLY pay IWM $15.00 for a new Unseen Warhammer, rather than put a penny into HG's hands.  Not that I really Need any more Whammy's that is.  :D  But still . . .   And I'm just one of MANY BT players that got their start back in the early days of the game ('86 for me), and while I Accept most of the Reseen, there's not a single one of them that I'd Prefer over an Unseen.  Sure, I didn't like the looks of most of the Reseen when they first came out, but I've come to like them at least.  I'm still not too sure about the Reseen Valkyrie though, as (to ME at least) it looks so VASTLY Different from the Unseen sculpt as to be a new design entirely.  The first time I saw a picture of one posted, I had to ask what it was because I didn't recognize it.  :-\

Well said, Grud.  And totally agree that most of the Re-Seen are basically their own designs unrelated to the Unseen.  The Stinger and Wasp are particularily bad offenders, loaded down with those hideous rocket pods that didn't even exist until Fanpro took over the franchise.  the Crusader doesn't look anything like a Crusader, and its miniature is incompatible with the old model record sheets.  The Rifleman perhaps being the worst offender in the "how in the hell is this related to the original" category, turned an iconic mech into its fat cousin from Detroit.

Don't get me wrong, I love Project Phoenix and most of the designs within.  Some designs are even somewhat superior to the original (Griffin, Thunderbolt, all the OSTs), but the overall aesthetic is like comparing 2014-model sports cars to the boxy 70's models.  They look out of place in a Star-League campaign, and many people (myself included) would spend twice the going miniature price for the original anime-inspired design.  After all, what would you rather have...the original Star Trek episodes as they aired, or a reimagined Star Trek TOS where Chris Pine was photoshopped in overtop of Shatner?  You can't reimagine the past and expect the fans to like it.

Project Phoenix has its place, and that place is the 3060's and beyond.  For anything before that time, I still want my Unseen.

As for the whole epub deal, why should I have to invest $50+ for some new techno-gizmo-thingie, just to be able to read a book?  I'm with Khell (and probably Many others), in that I prefer a good paperback over an ebook.

And the inconvenience and cost of an eReader is just the tip of the iceberg.  The big thing for me is ownership rights.  Digital media makes you forfeit certain rights and powers bestowed upon consumers.  I can't lend an eBook, I can't re-sell it or donate my copy.  If the hosting company closes shop, I loose access to my purchases.  Even were it completely DRM-Free, I'm still tied to the technology it was released for.  I don't have to worry about my paperback copy of "I am Jade Falcon" not working with the latest version of Windows.  And the singular advantage to digital media - the ability to drastically lower cost - is ignored by publishers who think a 2mb file should still be worth 75-100% of the price of something printed and shipped.  So add in the inconveniences previously mentioned, such as the cost of an eReader, and tell me - anybody please tell me - why should I get on board with eBooks?

[cavingjan]

As pointed out on a number of occasions: DRM free ebooks are not locked to a specific hardware platform. There is the ebook equivalent of windows media player (or insert your favorite media library software) that can convert between the various formats. You are not reliant upon a company to stay in business to redownload your library. It is just like any other computer file: backups are your friend.  Even better is when the publisher provides mutliple formats on purchase like CGL does.

Your library should be safer with ebooks as having multiple copies in multiple physical locations is far better than a single copy located mostly in one place (like a physical bookshelf). If you lose all of your ebooks, you have done something horribly wrong and didn't even follow the most basic of important document safekeeping.

[SteelWarrior]

Lol no offence intended but your a legend in stuborness Grud, haha :), no sense in me trying to change your views, but i would recommend trying an e-reader out before knocking it, wonderful device :)

That being said,  i personally prefer the reseen longbow and have become rather fond of the battlemaster