Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni  (Read 42518 times)

Scotty

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'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« on: 21 September 2012, 00:05:31 »
Wall of text incoming:

Summoner OmniMech



The 70 ton Summoner represents a significant step in the development of the OmniMech. First manufactured by Clan Jade Falcon in 2872. Jade Falcon was actually the first Clan to successfully trial for the right to Omni technology from Clan Coyote in 2863. The very first of the second generation of OmniMechs, the Summoner rides the high end of the Heavy weight class, without being as heavy as its younger brother, the Timber Wolf. The base chassis's combination of armor, speed, and firepower has secured its place in the Clans for centuries, and it is a particular favorite of the Jade Falcons, being one of the most common Omnis in the Clan's entire touman.

The rights to manufacture the Summoner design have remained relatively static since the design's inception, with the primary manufacturers being obviously Clan Jade Falcon, but also Clan Hell's Horses. The Hell's Horses facility is situated on Niles, where the design is produced at the St. Louis MechWorks factories. Until 3072, during the Ice Hellion incursion into Jade Falcon space, the design was most manufactured on Ironhold in significant numbers by the Eagle Craft Group. When the Group moved the majority of their facilities to Sudeten, the production runs of the Summoner were a casualty of the move, and the Group can now only produce the Heavy Omni in small numbers and at high cost through the 3080s. Fortunately for the Falcon touman, however, the design's production was taken over primarily by Olivetti Weaponry, also situated on Sudeten, granting further access to the design well past the Jihad.

Built on a JFS-703 standard chassis to save space at the expense of podspace. A Redline 350 Extra-Light fusion engine propels the 'Mech to the maximum speed for its weight, a respectable 54 kilometers per hour at a walk and 86.4 kilometers per hour at a run. In a questionable design choice, the Summoner also mounts a quintet of JF Standard jump jets permanently affixed to the base chassis, allowing the Omni to jump 150 meters at a stretch, although with four jets mounted in the legs and one in the center torso, this maneuverability is seriously impeded in aquatic or water-heavy environments. Rounding out the base chassis in another arguably odd design choice, fourteen double heat sinks are mounted as fixed equipment, although considering that all of them fit in the engine, it's not too much of a loss. Most configurations use the heat capacity exceptionally well for a Clan Omni, especially such an early one, so the fixed heat sinks actually save critical space that could very well be useful.

Nine and a half tons of J63-3E Clan Ferro-Fibrous armor protect the innards of the 'Mech, covering it with nearly 84% of its maximum possible armor level. The armor distribution is fairly intelligent, with all forward locations able to withstand a Clan ER PPC or Gauss Rifle shot without breaching, obviously excepting the head, which still mounts the maximum amount of armor possible for the location. After such a hit, however, the arms will be left with barely enough armor to withstand a single SRM hit, being the most weakly armored sections on the 'Mech. The torsos, only slightly less armored than the legs, will be able to take a Clan ER Medium Laser hit without buckling, and the legs will still have the barest amount of armor, although not even enough to stop a solitary SRM. The Center Torso, the most heavily armored location on the 'Mech, can withstand a full blast from a 20-class Autocannon from pristine condition, and then another Clan ER Medium hit on top of that before the armor is completely stripped. The rear torsos are armored acceptably for a Clan engagement, all able to take a Clan ER Medium hit before buckling, and the Center Torso (Rear) will still have the barest amount of armor even after such a hit. The above average mobility of the base chassis, combined with slightly lacking but intelligently arranged armor placement makes this Omni a solid defensive platform if the need arises, although obviously not able to take repeated high-powered hits without suffering for it.

Being an OmniMech, the Summoner is readily able to swap between configurations for the mission at hand, assuming the correct pods are available. Fortunately for a Summoner's pilot, there are fourteen distinct configurations for a Summoner to be outfitted as, which manage to fill just about every tactical niche a heavy cavalry Omni could conceivably need. Technically, being an Omni, it's possible for there to be an infinite amount of configurations beyond the most commonly seen, so this article will focus on the “standard” configs to save time. Due to the combination of fixed equipment and heatsinks, the Summoner enjoys a rather meager for its size 22.5 tons of podspace. When considering the fixed jump jets and heatsinks, however, the effective payload is really closer to 29.5 tons.

Starting off, the Prime configuration of the Summoner sets the tone for nearly every subsequent config by using a small number of relatively simple yet powerful weapons. Only three weapons adorn the Prime, and the visual centerpiece to the Omni is the LRM-15 mounted in the left torso. Aesthetically, the missile rack and offset cockpit are the hallmark of the Summoner, an easily recognizable feature. Against Inner Sphere opponents that know how powerful Clan weapons are, this recognition can easily be an advantage, intimidating shaken or nervous troops further. Two tons of ammunition also occupy the Left Torso, allowing the missiles to engage targets for nearly three solid minutes of continuous fire at a range of 630 meters. An LB-10X Autocannon occupies the left arm, fed by a highly questionable singular ton of ammunition. A 540 meter range allows the Summoner to project a significant ballistic warning bubble for any vehicles that might try to stray into the battle, and also helps seek out vulnerable weak spots. Alternately, it can hole punch with decent strength. Unfortunately, with only one ton of ammo, a pilot will have to choose which to use in any given battle. Personally, I'd recommend using cluster ammunition to make it easier to hit targets and seek out holes, mostly because of the last weapon on the config. An ER PPC graces the right arm with a solid hole puncher out to 690 meters. While the config as a whole won't win any awards for raw damage any time soon, the Prime is literally impossible to overheat without outside help, and projects a fair bit of power out to a long enough range to be useful.

The A config maintains much the same operational profile as the Prime. One long range energy weapon in the right arm, on long range ballistic weapon in the left arm, one missile weapon in the left torso missile rack. On this config, the long range energy weapon is a Large Pulse Laser, reaching out to 600 meters with deadly accuracy. Making up for the lower damage of the pulse laser compared to the ER PPC, the ballistic weapon this time around is a Gauss Rifle that can reach out to 660 meters with a single ton of ammo. Not near enough to sustain the rifle for an entire engagement, so any warrior will have to husband his or her shots to keep the rifle in action. Perhaps to make up for the new minimum range on the Gauss, at all of 60 meters, the missile rack mounts a single SRM-6 with two tons of ammo that can start contributing as far out as 270 meters. Yes, that's correct, the SRM-6 gets two tons while the Gauss Rifle gets one. It's the exact wrong combination, and the major failing of this config. The overall damage is also less than the Prime, which was already somewhat lackluster in Clan space. The SRM keeps the potential sandblasting, at least, so it's not a total wash. This config is even harder to overheat, quite literally able to bathe in inferno gel or Plasma Cannon fire at a run and not suffer any ill effects even while firing the entire payload of weapons. In the world of Clan 'Mechs, this most definitely qualifies as hideously oversinked.

Configuration B takes a radical departure from the first two. Instead of a balanced mix of weapons, the Summoner B mounts a pair of LRM-20s, one in each arm, with two tons of ammo each. Not terrible ammunition endurance, considering the Summoner's other configs. Backing up the LRMs are a pair of SRM-4s, mounted directly beneath the LRMs in the arms One ton of ammo each makes the SRMs once again over-ammoed for how long it is likely to last in a sustained engagement, fire support config be damned. However, that's not the end of the config. Occupying the customary missile rack is a decidedly un-Clanlike Narc Launcher with a single ton of homing ammo. By default, the LRMs and SRMs carry Narc-capable ammunition, making this variant most useful to itself at just around 240 meters. Finally, an Anti-Missile System and a ton of ammo share the missile rack with the Narc Launcher. Considering the nature of Clan duels, this config is a head scratcher. For one, it's a fire support config in a society that glorifies direct combat. Secondly, it mounts a Narc Launcher, which is most useful to more than one unit at a time, which is very at odds with the Clan ideals of single combat. However, it is at least conceivable that the purpose of this config is for the Summoner to tag a target with its Narc Launcher, and use the homing pod to make its own shots more likely to hit. This is probably the first config on the list that isn't hideously lacking in ammo for a main weapon, but it makes up for it by being hideously over-ammoed for everything else. Once again, this config runs cool by Clan standards.

Abandoning all pretenses of staying primarily of long range, the C configuration is a brutal short-range punisher. Gone is the long range ballistic or missile component of the previous three. In its place there is a single ER Large Laser for sparring at ranges up to 750 meters and supporting the main event of the config. An Ultra-AC/20 occupies the left arm and brings the pain out to 240 meters, fed by the now-typical criminally low two tons of ammunition. Going at full blast, the autocannon will exhaust its munitions in less than a minute. Providing crit-seeking support is a single Streak-6 rack in the customary missile rack fed by one ton of ammo that reach every meter as far as the UAC. Finally, at extremely short range, or simply to eat up a half ton, an ER Small Laser is mounted beneath the ER Large on the right arm, but it will only be useful once the enemy has closed to 150 meters. The Summoner C is notable for being the first Summoner that is actually even able to overheat at all, and by quite a bit, at that. Alpha-striking at a jump will build up enough heat to slow the Omni and also degrade targeting performance. Then again, alpha striking in this config is a questionable proposition at best, since the ER Small is highly situational, and the Streak-6 can easily fail to acquire lock. If the Streak-6 fails to lock and the ER Small is out of range, this config won't even overheat enough to slow down. On the other hand, this config comes the closest so far to actually dealing a respectable amount of damage.

Config D is almost as significant a departure from the Prime as the B is. The main armament is almost exclusively energy based. Two ER Large Lasers and two ER Medium Lasers are mounted in the arms, with one of each laser in each arm that can reach out to 450 meters. This heat load is significantly higher than any of the configs that precede it, a fact which did not escape the designer. Six extra heat sinks are added, three mounted in each arm bringing the total up to twenty double heat sinks for dissipating buildup. Backing up the lasers at very short range is a pair of machine guns for point blank shooting (90 meters or less), one in each torso. On the defensive side of things, a pair of AMSs is also split evenly between the side torsos, with one ton of ammo for each unit. Finally, a targeting computer is nestled into the right torso to make the lasers more effective at any range. Even with the much higher heat load and signature fixed jump jets, this variant runs cool. A jumping alpha strike will raise but the faintest blip on the heat scale, and just running is impossible to overheat. As a small note, this was the last config developed for the base chassis before Operation: Revival

Another combination of rather questionable design choices, the E config doesn't mount a single ballistic weapon at all. The main hole-punching equipment is a single ER PPC in the left arm, the arm usually occupied by the ballistic weapon. There are only two other weapons present on this configuration, two differently sized ATM launchers, both mounted in the right arm. An ATM-12 sits right above an ATM-6, both fed by three tons of ammunition. Naturally, this leaves the ATM-12 with a decent amount of ammunition, and the ATM-6 with more ammunition than it can ever hope to get rid of, at two and a half minutes and five full minutes, respectively. The decision to mount two mismatched is rather curious, considering that switching both to ATM-9s would allow for the same throw weight, and yet free up an additional half ton of podspace, while simultaneously reducing the ammo issues. New-toy syndrome clearly has its claws in this config, developed just as ATMs were being developed and produced in 3054. At any rate, this config is a superb long range skirmisher with ER ammunition, and an absolutely brutal infighter using HE ammo, nearly matching the maximum damage output of the UAC/20 toting C config. Firing all weapons at a run will start the unit on the path to heat, just barely, and a jumping alpha will let it know that its getting warm, even if no ill-effects occur immediately. Considering that all weapons are viable at all ranges, this strikes me as a rather decent balance of heat.

The next config down the alphabet, the Summoner F, vaguely echoes the Prime. Mounting a pair of Ultra-AC/5s, capable of reaching out to the same range as an LRM at 630 meters, one on each arm, and each fed by a single ton of ammo. Even though the UAC/5 is a lackluster weapon if ever one existed in Clan space, this is definitely a good amount of ammo for them, allowing the pilot to take whatever shots he or she may want. Three ER Medium Lasers back up the UACs, one nestled under each cannon and one sitting alone in the right torso. Rounding out the armament, an LRM-10 with a single ton of ammo occupies the missile rack in the right torso. This is arguably the most effectively ammoed config of the bunch, so far. A real shame that the weapons are so lackluster. This config is perfectly sinked for a jumping alpha, so don't be afraid, as with all other Summoner configs, to use it when the time arises.

Similarly ditching all ballistic weapons, Config G skips further along the timeline, being introduced in 3068 during the Jihad. An ER Large Laser in the left arm and an ER PPC in the right provide decent long range firepower, while a sextet of SRM-4 launchers fed by two tons of ammo provide absolutely wicked critseeking at short range. If anything, two tons of ammo isn't enough for this config, with just less than a minute and a half of engagement time on the missiles. Added as if an afterthought, a single Heavy Small Laser sits in the Center Torso, presumably trying to eat a half ton of excess weight but not contributing much due to needing to be within 90 meters to actually use. Four more heat sinks struggle to handle the increased heat load. On a running alpha, although not likely due to the short range of the Heavy Laser, this config runs hot enough to risk a shutdown in a single round of firing, so be careful. Without the heavy laser, however, the effects are “only” significantly reduced movement and a minor reduction in accuracy. All that aside, the Summoner G puts out the most damage of any config so far, making it at least useful in that tactical niche.

Moving further down the alphabet and moving a little bit back in time to 3059, the H config is up next. Eschewing all pretense at finesse, the H brute forces its way into the equation. Mounting a pair of Heavy Lager Lasers, one in each arm reaching out to 450 meters, supported by a pair of ER Medium Lasers in the same locations, the H is dedicated to punching huge holes in targets at close range, and nothing else. Helping the Heavy Large Lasers work is a targeting computer nestled in the Right Torso. Rounding out the defensive equipment is an AMS with a single ton of ammo in where the missile rack would be. In order to handle the vastly increased heat load, the heaviest of any config so far, a whole nine more heat sinks were added, and they still struggle with the load. A jumping alpha sends the Summoner H's speed down, although a running alpha manages to avoid all immediate downsides, although barely. While it's not the most damaging config in the Summoner's line up, the Heavy Large's huge hits will set any pilot back on her heels. It's not that much worse than an ER PPC, however, so don't fall into the trap of thinking you're the baddest thing on the field.

In a fit of stunning originality, the next config is designated the HH, perhaps for “Hell's Horses”, the primary users of this particular config, and is produced starting in 3070. The Summoner HH harkens back to the Prime in one major way: the reintroduction of a ballistic weapon. A Hyper Assault Gauss-20 with three tons of ammunition occupies the right arm. With one minute of fire per ton, this is abnormally decent ammunition endurance for a Summoner. The rest of the HH config is as different from the typical Summoner as it is possible to get and stay on the same chassis, mixing and matching no less than four additional kind of offensive equipment instead of the signature Summoner simple yet powerful motif. A Plasma Cannon with two tons of ammo occupies the right torso, reaching out to 540 meters, once again surprising in the reasonable ammo allocation. Two ER Medium Lasers, one in the Center Torso, of all places, and one in the Left Arm provide an additional mid-range punch. When an opponent ventures into short range, a Heavy Medium Laser and an AP Gauss, both of which can begin to accurately engage once an enemy is within 270 meters, with a single ton of ammo add a decent incentive to avoid getting too close. With enough ammo for nearly seven minutes of continuous fire, the AP Gauss is significantly overstocked, but seeing as that's not really possible to change and that the ammo isn't explosive, it is forgivable. No additional heat sinks grace the design, making it at least possible to overheat if a pilot really tries at it. A jumping alpha will slow the 'Mech down, but not impart any more significant penalties than that, and a running alpha will just make the pilot feel it a bit, but not enough to degrade performance.

Once again moving backwards on the timeline but forward in the alphabet, the Summoner M was the personal config of Star Colonel Nicolai Malthus of the oft-maligned Somerset Strikers dramatic holovid fame, but more on him in a moment. The configuration returns all the benefits, and all of the flaws, of the first pair of configs. The LB-10X Autocannon and the ER PPC from the Prime are still there, and still in their respective locations. The LBX even keeps the same paltry one ton of ammo. The LRM-15, however, has been ripped out and replaced by a Streak-6 pack, with two tons of ammo, both of them in the opposite, less populous torso. Yes, two tons of ammo. Whatever else Nicolai Malthus knew, he didn't seem to know how ammo in a 'Mech actually works. Filling the last half ton is an ER Small Laser in the left torso under the launcher. The Streak ammo is a bomb waiting to happen, although until the LBX runs out of ammunition, the config is reasonably effective. With the Summoner M, the Omni is back to never overheating without outside help.

Skipping more letters than is probably necessary, the Q config is up next, once again jumping back up the timeline to 3069. The Prime's ER PPC is still there in the right arm, and a Large Pulse Laser occupies the left. For whatever reason, the left arm has a lower arm actuator, but the right does not, making the Q unable to flip its arms, though this is ultimately a minor gripe. Heavily channeling the G config, the Q also mounts a sextet of SRM-4s with the same barely enough two tons of ammunition, split evenly between the left and right torsos. A Heavy Medium Laser fits into the Left Torso, while a Heavy Small fills the Center. Trying, and failing hideously, to manage the heat load, a single extra heatsink has been added, bringing the total to fifteen. This config holds the dubious distinction of being the hottest running Summoner config. Period. A jumping alpha-strike will put the reactor dangerously close to automatic shutdown, and it will definitely be a challenge to avoid exploding. At the same time, this config also holds the distinction of doing the single highest amount of damage in the shortest time, as long as the pilot is willing to pay for it dearly.

Skipping still more letters, and forward all the way to 3080, the Summoner U is perhaps the closest thing to a “What were they thinking?” config on the list. The U designates this config as an underwater fighter. With five fixed jump jets. Twin ER PPCs actually make this config a decently dangerous opponent at long range even above water. Making matter worse (for an opponent) is the targeting computer in the right torso. Rounding out the armament is a LRT-15 with two tons of ammo. That's the extent of the dedicated underwater equipment. Two extra heatsinks, mounted one in each torso, keep the Summoner U cool running on both land and in the water. Sixteen double heatsinks is enough to make a running overland alpha-strike run cool, and having both of them in the torso makes a “running” alpha underwater barely blip the heat scale. If not for the fixed jump jets, this config might make some legitimate sense. As it is, the U is an oddball with few real applications as a dedicated combat unit. Lack of UMUs makes this config not worth taking underwater, and twin ER PPCs just isn't enough firepower or variety to work overland in a 70 ton chassis.

The last configuration on the list, both alphabetically and chronologically, is the Summoner Z. Deployed exclusively by The Society in Clan space. The right arm mounts an experimental ER Large Pulse Laser. I've never been convinced that the extra 90 meters of range is worth losing a part of the accuracy bonus of pulse lasers and the increased heat, but it may be of some utility. The left arm plays host to a battery of fully eight AP Gauss Rifles fed by a single ton of ammo, officially for dealing with infantry, although that many of them is enough to threaten much larger targets as well. A single ton of ammo certainly plays right back into the bad ammo management of most Summoner configs, however. In the left torso resides another experimental piece of equipment, the iATM-12, fed by three tons of ammo. Two and a half minutes of fire is decent for the missile system, so no complaints there. The last piece of equipment is the signature Society Nova CEWS, which can coordinate up to three units at once in a manner similar to C3, but that can be rearranged on the fly.

It may be worth noting that the Summoner does not have any famous personalized configurations that we have access to, with the possible exception on the M config. The Summoner configurations for Aidan and Marthe Pryde, arguably the two most famous Summoner pilots to ever live, are both still unknown (and despite an entry on the MUL as existing).

On a similar note to personalized configurations, there are several notable pilots for the Summoner. Already mentioned previously, Star Colonel Nicolai Malthus piloted a Summoner, specifically the M config, during his campaign against the Somerset Strikers. It is unknown whether this config is a personalized config or just made famous enough by the errant warrior to warrant inclusion as a common config.

More excitingly, Star Commander Joanna of Clan Jade Falcon was piloting a Summoner during her duel with Wolf Khan Natasha Kerensky, the Black Widow herself. Joanna ultimately killed the legendary warrior with the Summoner's jump jets. Normally, however, Joanna was more comfortable piloting a Mad Dog.

The sibkin warriors Marthe and Aidan Pryde also both piloted Summoners, to such an extent that Aidan piloted a Summoner for his entire career as a warrior, save only the Battle of Tukayyid. From (both of) his Trial(s) of Position to earning his Bloodname and beyond, Aidan piloted the Summoner. Marthe would eventually go on to become the Khan of Clan Jade Falcon, and was similarly skilled in the Omni. Unfortunately, neither of their personalized configs are known at this time, though Aidan was known to use a configuration very similar to the Summoner M during his first Trial of Position.

Using a Summoner is in most cases relatively simple. For any of the configs with long range energy weapons, spar at long range for as long as possible, using your superior maneuverability against most Clan Heavies and Assaults to exploit openings and get better shots. Husband your limited ammo if necessary, and it probably will be. Summoners are terrible about ammunition in most configs. If you don't have a long range energy weapon, or your opponent totally outclasses you in that department, use that same superior mobility to close the distance, using cover while you can to get the best shots. The Prime should never get closer than about 300 meters to any target, while something like the C should always strive to never be more than 300 meters from the current subject of pain.

The fixed jump jets make every brand of Summoner, with the possible exception of the U, an excellent city fighter, even if the Clans officially detest fighting in population centers. That said, five tons you can never reassign is over 20% of your podspace you can't get back, so keep that in mind. The Summoner does not have the podspace to go outright toe to toe with heavier, more heavily armed Omnis, so play it smart.

Fighting against a Summoner is similarly fairly simple. Stay the hell away from the C, G, H, and Q if you value your armor, but in general the Summoner does not get nearly as dangerous up close as other Omnis, and a good chunk of configs are just as effective at 600 meters as they are at 100, so don't be afraid to close on those that are primarily long range. Keep in mind the jump jets on every model, and keep hammering. The Summoner's ammo problems do have one good advantage for itself in a Clan fight: most of the time, the ammo is going to be gone long before there's a chance for it to explode, even if you're measuring your ammo expenditure. If you're trying to take one down, don't rely on taking out the ammo to take it down. Use big hits like Gauss Rifles and ER PPCs to punch through the armor fast, and follow up with whatever crits you can. Most Summoners have few weapons, so taking out one or two will severely cripple their impact on the battle.

As always, the MUL has additional information, and CamoSpecs has a bunch of minis on it.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #1 on: 21 September 2012, 02:32:55 »
Good writeup.

Are not the G and Q configs associated with Quinn Kerensky?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #2 on: 21 September 2012, 02:40:58 »
Personally, I think I'd use the U as a coastal defence unit. Anything coming will be taking hits, and if it's a floating vessel, it's going to really hate the torpedoes coing in at long range.

Not the most efficient use of the Omni, certainly, but it can work invaders (or defenders) over on both sides of the boundary.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #3 on: 21 September 2012, 03:09:41 »
The Q Config was the personalized ride of Quinn Kerensky, and the G is a standardized config based on it if I recall correctly. Though she's switched to a Flamberge nowadays.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #4 on: 21 September 2012, 09:47:56 »
it's visually impossible to not compare the Thor to the Thunderbolt, with them sharing the asymmetric cockpit placement, missile tube and general chunky leg look. the Thor carries that asymmetry a little further though, with a pair of mismatched arms that may possibly be to compensate with housing the shoulder mounting so close to the cockpit.

unlike some other omnimechs, the Thor's torso and legs are  wide and blocky enough to give a feeling of heavy durability, and combined with the asymmetry of the limbs and weapon mountings the overall first impression of the Thor is generally one of raw, brute force.

its inclusion of hard-mounted jumpjets is something i occasionally hear grumbling about, but i've always felt it was a concession to the fact you can be surprised in battle, and having the mobility to get around any minefields/burning forests/suicide infantry swarms without actually coming into contact with them on part of your force no matter how they configure it seems sensible to me. all in all, i'm amazed the jade falcons use such a sensible design so extensively. i honestly figured them more for Loki people.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #5 on: 21 September 2012, 10:20:08 »
If jump jets were unable to be pod mounted, the decision to hard-wire them to the chassis would make a hell of a lot of sense.  As is, it's five tons that you could have otherwise conceivably spent on weapons and equipment (like the U), or you could still mount jump jets anyway, and it completely removes the Summoner from any capability of mounting IJJs.

The Q Config was the personalized ride of Quinn Kerensky, and the G is a standardized config based on it if I recall correctly. Though she's switched to a Flamberge nowadays.

I honestly did not know this.  Not sure if I'm willing to delve back into that gigantic mass of text to put it in there, though.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #6 on: 21 September 2012, 11:15:03 »
To me, the key to using a Summoner properly is the speed and heat sinks. This thing can keep moving at high speed and firing constantly. While others can put out heavier salvos, they'll have to cool down someday. This one can keep moving, keep shooting, and force you to keep moving as well, eventually wearing you down just through momentum.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #7 on: 21 September 2012, 11:38:37 »
Definitely true.  If I had to pick just one, I'd say that the Summoner, as a general rule, is the single most balanced Omni in the original 16, and maybe even the entire Clans.  Most of the variants (most, not all) have near perfect heat curves for running or jumping alphas all day long (or until the ammo runs).  The armor is decent but not stellar (and not horrible), the maneuverability is excellent, and the armaments are simple and easy to use, but also take some finesse to get the best out of them.

It is, in a word, a duelist, plain and simple.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #8 on: 21 September 2012, 12:19:44 »
It's not bad, but in a world of BV balanced fighting, I've never been impressed with it as it's pretty expensive for what you get.  Sure BV's artifical and every single system has had it's flaws, but the poor Summoner has always been pretty pricy of a choice (jump jets and heat management help to jack it up beyond it's actually effectivness IMHO.)  I've fought against them often enough but I've never been super scared of them.  The D can be annoying when it's dancing around at range, but again, things I've dueled it with or normal IS style battle haven't been outclassed.  The design just suffers for bizzare design choices as was noted in the write-up.  I guess it and the Timber Wolf are kind of fanboy designs and I've fought some less experienced players.  There are some guys you fear with the Summoner, but then I fear them in just about anything they select.

I have used the Prime, C, D, and E some and like the E the best as once you get in close, those launchers with HE rounds can be plain nasty.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #9 on: 21 September 2012, 13:02:32 »
The Q Config was the personalized ride of Quinn Kerensky, and the G is a standardized config based on it if I recall correctly. Though she's switched to a Flamberge nowadays.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #10 on: 21 September 2012, 13:03:35 »
You are batting a thousand there.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #11 on: 21 September 2012, 14:53:26 »
It's not bad, but in a world of BV balanced fighting, I've never been impressed with it as it's pretty expensive for what you get.  Sure BV's artifical and every single system has had it's flaws, but the poor Summoner has always been pretty pricy of a choice (jump jets and heat management help to jack it up beyond it's actually effectivness IMHO.)  I've fought against them often enough but I've never been super scared of them.  The D can be annoying when it's dancing around at range, but again, things I've dueled it with or normal IS style battle haven't been outclassed.  The design just suffers for bizzare design choices as was noted in the write-up.  I guess it and the Timber Wolf are kind of fanboy designs and I've fought some less experienced players.  There are some guys you fear with the Summoner, but then I fear them in just about anything they select.

Fixed jump jets, only one half of the ES/FF, and more fixed heat sinks than it usually needs.  If the jump jets weren't fixed (or, if jump jets couldn't be pod mounted in general), ES was added, and some of the heatsinks dropped, it would be relatively trivial to max the armor and come out with more podspace than the Timber Wolf itself.

That said, it has a certain flavor about it that's missing from the Timber Wolf, at least to me.  It's good without being optimized.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #12 on: 21 September 2012, 15:28:55 »
Cheater. :P
Don't be jealous.  O0
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #13 on: 21 September 2012, 16:57:30 »
Fixed jump jets, only one half of the ES/FF, and more fixed heat sinks than it usually needs.  If the jump jets weren't fixed (or, if jump jets couldn't be pod mounted in general), ES was added, and some of the heatsinks dropped, it would be relatively trivial to max the armor and come out with more podspace than the Timber Wolf itself.

That said, it has a certain flavor about it that's missing from the Timber Wolf, at least to me.  It's good without being optimized.

Sure, i don't need optimized, but when I've used Stormcrows, Novas, Mad Dogs and yes, Timber Wolves to beat up on Summoners it leaves a sub-standard view behind (and yes, it's because it's BV is so high for what you get, that instead of investing in a similiarly BV's 'mech, i spend on smaller 'mechs with better pilots and hit the Summoner more often in the end.)  I think if the 'mech was redone in the modern era (even with fixed jets and what not) with well thought out configurations, it might help (but of course, not with the BV.)

It still has it's uses, but I guess it's the Coyote in me (or the anti-Falcon) that leaves it for more specialized rolls and not my go-to 'Mech  :D

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #14 on: 21 September 2012, 17:10:52 »
The Summoner prime is only around 2300 BV.  That's actually pretty good for a high-end Clan heavy, all things considered, and is less then 200 higher than the Stormcrow Prime (and is 300 less than a Nova Prime).  Cheaper even than a Mad Dog Prime, and enough cheaper than a Timber Wolf Prime (or A) that a piloting increase is still well within the base cost of the others.

It's not the flashiest, no.  It's honestly not the most effective, either.  It's a bargain.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #15 on: 21 September 2012, 17:13:52 »
A comprehensive writeup, Scotty - and one which answers the great question: where did all the Australians go in ClanSpace?

Moving further down the alphabet and moving a little bit back in time to 3059, the H config is up next. Eschewing all pretense at finesse, the H brute forces its way into the equation. Mounting a pair of Heavy Lager Lasers, one in each arm ...

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #16 on: 21 September 2012, 19:41:43 »
 :o

what's the term clanners use for saying "i will fight you for that, give it over now?" trial of fork it over or something? i do that. lasers that generate beer will streamline any merc outfit's supply lines amazingly!
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #17 on: 21 September 2012, 20:34:49 »
Possibly my least favorite clan omni.  Its configs are kind of meh and using it takes a little finese but basically ends up run or jump and pray you hit something before you run out of ammo.  Its great in a duel as long asnyou dont have a second opponent.

Its better than a Hellbringer cuz it jumps.  I need to try some of the newer configs (the H sounds fitting). }:)


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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #18 on: 21 September 2012, 20:58:03 »
Excellent write-up, even if I am a bit biased for it being my favourite Clan Omni and one of my fave 'Mechs full stop.

I've had a lot of good luck with Thor D, using it as a mobile sniper; jump into cover, take absurdly accurate shots at the enemy and so on and so forth. In theory it's damage is on the low side; in practice the combo of the TC and being able to Alpha all the live long day means that it can do a quite impressive amount of damage, especially when staying mobile and/or in cover. Thor D with a "Jumping Jack" Pilot is just monstrous.

With regards to Thor B, one odd-ball idea I've tried - and had work - was urban fire support. No, really. Hit target with NARC becon, jump away, indrect fire LRMs at them. Un-Clanlike, yes, but certainly fun and a great way to confuse an opponent.

All up, I love the Thor. Is it the best 'Mech ever? No. Does it have personality? Yes. And for me, personality beats optimization any day.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #19 on: 21 September 2012, 21:04:26 »
Summoner C for the win! During my Ice Hellion phase, this was my assault Omni of choice (think about it ;) ). The only way to play was demented flea tactics. You need boardspace and terrain to get the best out of a Summoner.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #20 on: 21 September 2012, 21:14:00 »
I also like the Summoner a lot, the D, E, H and G are all solid choices for their BV. The Q is good too, but I very rarely use uniques. The C is alright as a brawler though since I play Clan vs IS a lot I prefer to avoid close range fighting. I avoid the other configs, I really don't like the Prime and the A at all.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #21 on: 21 September 2012, 21:21:31 »
Excellent write up

Of all the Clan OmniMechs I'd rank the Summoner in my top 5 Heavy Mech fan through and through.  Even as a Jade Falcon design I like this one.  Some of the configs don't make sense but that's fine it's an Omni.  The fixed JJ add a nice flare something different from the lighter Hellbringer and Heavier Timber Wolf
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #22 on: 21 September 2012, 21:41:27 »
Great write up Scotty!

The Summoner was one of those 'Mechs I dismissed for ages. Then one day, one bright shiny day, it clicked and I embrace it odd ammo choices and all. It's honestly become my favorite of the 3050 OmniMechs. I will confess that the D with its ER large lasers and targeting computer was the first that sucked me though. My Nova Cat bias is showing with that one. Then there's the G, ah the Summoner G. Nothing sweeter than two great long range weapons coupled with glorious SRM spam. I have yet to get the chance to take the HH for a spin but it seems great at making quick work of combined arms forces. Many people scoff at the A, but once I started mixing in inferno rounds it seemed to work quite well.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #23 on: 21 September 2012, 22:37:06 »
I always like to view the summoner as a great trooper mech.  It's nothing spectacular, but it almost always can get the job done.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #24 on: 21 September 2012, 23:10:55 »
demented flea tactics

Okay, this I gotta hear about. Am I guessing correctly that it closely resembles the Awesome Handbook©, only in every situation where the Awesome would Stand and Shoot(every situation), the Summoner should jump away(or at least laterally)?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #25 on: 21 September 2012, 23:57:40 »
I'm sure I've heard people on the boards saying that the Summoner's use of fixed JJ's and/or standard structure is to differeniant it from the TW (The posters in question opinion, not an actual fact they are repeating), if not the boards then other BT websites

The problem with the first half of that statement is that the TW has 5 tons more podspace, so it can easily a Summoner config plus 5 JJ's with the bonus fixed mounted HS the TW gets, so the Summoner ends up playing second fiddle to the TW always, sure it's cheaper, but not by much, but it's also not as tough and less flexible, meaning that over it's lifetime your more likely to have to make expensive repairs, using endo structure would have made it more unique, the TW would still be tougher but would only be able to match it on maneuverability OR firepower, not both

The U config would be far better on the TW, the ability to mount UMU's would benefit it greatly

Given my other statements would anyone are to comment on the Mad Cat 3 being intended to replace both the TW and Summoner?

Something possibly noteworthy: the TW Pryde's weapon loadout an be mounted on a Summoner, but your down 2 HS (and of course some armor)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #26 on: 22 September 2012, 00:25:24 »
BAsically, yes. If you're not jumping 5, you're doing it wrong.

Yes, your to-hits aren't great. But you'd be suprised how many people have this phobia of having a fast-moving UAC-20 in their rear areas, and the Summoner's reputation for less than stellar armour tends to draw the eye (and the dice) away from starmates.

Plus, you only really fire the UAC when there's a shot worth taking. The rest of the time, when you're just firing the ERLL, keep telling your opponent "I'm just counting coup here until I get bored" ...

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #27 on: 22 September 2012, 01:51:59 »
For an Omni being built around jumping 5 (at least when JJ's are pod mountable) is BAD
The following are all situations where the the Summoner is a worse design for mounting fixed JJ's
  • If Jumping doesn't help that much
  • If mounting more or less JJ's would be better for the situation
  • Situations where mounting the JJ's in the legs is bad, such as lots of depth one water

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #28 on: 22 September 2012, 02:52:37 »
I'm having trouble thinking of any instances where mounting less jump jets than five would be preferable if you're not mounting zero; the Shadow Hawk gets ripped on all the time for having a shitty jump range.  Five is the balancing point for TMM vs AMM, and is honestly the single most efficient point to have jump jets hardwired into the chassis.

Jumping the full five will always (always always) be at worst a wash between the target and the jumper, and at best is the defining moment of crowning someone with a UAC/20 burst or a thirty points of pain to the rear armor.

There are arguments for mounting either in legs or torsos, honestly.  In the legs, they become less effective where there's a lot of water.  A valid concern.  However, in the event that a Summoner loses both torsos, either to ammunition explosion or just plain battle damage, it'll still have five jump jets to run away with if it has been soundly beaten and the warrior inside knows that.

I think I've made my position on jump jets on Omnis clear before (should not be pod mountable), but with what the Summoner has, they're very useful.

Again, there are a few ways to make it better.  All of them turn it into a Timber Wolf that's five tons lighter and a few points of armor short, and rob it of the character it possesses as a unique set of design choices.  It's without a doubt one of the most balanced Omnis in the Clans, much less the original 16.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #29 on: 22 September 2012, 03:01:34 »
The Summoner configurations for Aidan and Marthe Pryde, arguably the two most famous Summoner pilots to ever live, are both still unknown (and despite an entry on the MUL as existing).

Both configurations come from Way of the Clans, specifically during Aidan and Marthe's initial Trial of Position. Marthe's configuration seems to be essentially an 'M' variant, but also mounting an ER medium laser.

Aidan's Summoner is a bit harder to figure out. The novel states he replaced his LB-10X autocannon with a large pulse laser, but doesn't specify where the missing tonnage went. He does seem to mount an Anti-Missile System, but in the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy, every Clan 'Mech seems to carry an AMS, despite what their respective record sheets show.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #30 on: 22 September 2012, 06:59:25 »
However, in the event that a Summoner loses both torsos, either to ammunition explosion or just plain battle damage, it'll still have five jump jets to run away with if it has been soundly beaten and the warrior inside knows that.
Actually, it would be crippled by engine crits, but I get the point you're making. Even the loss of one torso (assuming they jet were mounted symmetrically) knocks you down to three.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #31 on: 22 September 2012, 07:28:22 »
Aside from the obvious mistakes like FF over ES (which actually reduces your armor value) or the stupid ammo loads, it is a solid performer.
Far from optimized like the Stormcrow or Timby, but i would take it over a Hellbringer any day.
For the longest time i was particulary fond of the D, but then the Nova Cat A showed up. Though some day i took the Prime, replaced the LBX with a second ER-PPC and heatsinks, and have run with that ever since.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #32 on: 22 September 2012, 09:27:02 »
Summoner excels at looking cool, so that's in its favour.  Huge fan of the C and D but in general, the typical loadouts of energy, missiles and ballistic leave it feeling undergunned and not very Clan to me, where I'm much more used to hotboxes.  Haven't used the newer ones at all.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #33 on: 22 September 2012, 11:07:46 »
Both configurations come from Way of the Clans, specifically during Aidan and Marthe's initial Trial of Position. Marthe's configuration seems to be essentially an 'M' variant, but also mounting an ER medium laser.

Aidan's Summoner is a bit harder to figure out. The novel states he replaced his LB-10X autocannon with a large pulse laser, but doesn't specify where the missing tonnage went. He does seem to mount an Anti-Missile System, but in the Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy, every Clan 'Mech seems to carry an AMS, despite what their respective record sheets show.

They're not listed on a record sheet anywhere that I can find mention of, so we can't really know exactly what the configs are.  The MUL lists them both as 0 BV entries, as well, implying that they don't actually have a canon record sheet.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #34 on: 22 September 2012, 11:47:38 »
Sure, i don't need optimized, but when I've used Stormcrows, Novas, Mad Dogs and yes, Timber Wolves to beat up on Summoners it leaves a sub-standard view behind (and yes, it's because it's BV is so high for what you get, that instead of investing in a similiarly BV's 'mech, i spend on smaller 'mechs with better pilots and hit the Summoner more often in the end.)  I think if the 'mech was redone in the modern era (even with fixed jets and what not) with well thought out configurations, it might help (but of course, not with the BV.)

It still has it's uses, but I guess it's the Coyote in me (or the anti-Falcon) that leaves it for more specialized rolls and not my go-to 'Mech  :D
Gargoyle A, C, D, E, and H are among my favorites, and within the general BV range of Summoners.  (G and M look promising as well, but I've never used them)  But that may just be the Coyote in me, defaulting to a design ten tons heavier than the opposition.  I also use Linebackers as scout star leaders.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #35 on: 23 September 2012, 22:14:47 »
This is a great article for what is, personally, one of my least favorite mechs.

It isn’t particularly weak in any objective sense. It has its flaws, but so do most of the original Clan mechs, and the Summoner is probably better than many of them. What I dislike about it is the particular way it’s flawed. The 3050 mechs tend to make certain “mistakes” on a regular basis. They pack in too many weapons, with too few heat sinks. They don’t carry enough ammunition for long engagements. They push the envelope on speed for their tonnage. We see these traits in the Nova, the Mad Dog, the Hellbringer, the Warhawk, even the vaunted Timber Wolf. These “mistakes” tell a story about the users. Like their mechs, the Clans are powerful, aggressive, and ambitious…but ultimately their reach exceeds their grasp, and they fall short of their potential.

The Summoner tells a different story. Most of it’s configs are oversinked and underarmed for its size. It frequently mounts plenty of ammunition tonnage, even if it distributes its ammo poorly between weapons. The Summoner says that the Clans are overly cautious and unwilling to exploit their advantages – and it’s the preferred mount of the Jade Falcons of all people! So I don’t dislike the Summoner because it’s bad. I dislike it because it lies.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #36 on: 23 September 2012, 22:17:52 »
The only issue I have is the stupid ammo loads.  (my kingdom for a second ton of Gauss slugs!)

The manueverability and decent armor are great fun...I bounce around like a rabbit on crystal meth, and the big energy weapon makes people seriously reconsider advancing forwards...

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #37 on: 03 October 2012, 16:48:15 »
I admit to no small amount of hilarity in the Megamek scenario from the BT cartoon, The Taking of Somewhereorother.  I'll leave all the other 'Mechs behind as the Clan player, take the Summoner off, and sweep the board.  That ERPPC/SSRM6 spam isn't all that much on its face, but against everything but the assault in that scenario it's hell on wheels.  Add the LBX and ERSL when you feel like it; otherwise hell yes demented flea tactics ftw.  I admit that's against the bot, but still...that does show the potency of a +3TMM with a solid energy weapon and SSRMs
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #38 on: 03 October 2012, 16:52:01 »
Honestly, the worst part about the Summoner is its armor, and that could be easily improved upon.  However, then it'd lose a lot of its flavor.

"Damning with faint praise" is a phrase that comes to mind immediately with the Summoner, no matter how much I love the thing.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #39 on: 03 October 2012, 19:42:03 »
My favorite Clan 'Mech unless it's the Alt. D Configuration.  No matter how much I try, I never have success with that one. The H and M configurations have been the most successful for me followed by the A, B, and Prime Configs. I've got the E Config mini but haven't used it yet.  That one is a beast when used properly.

I haven't tried the newest ones yet.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #40 on: 03 October 2012, 20:00:01 »
This is a great article for what is, personally, one of my least favorite mechs.

It isn’t particularly weak in any objective sense. It has its flaws, but so do most of the original Clan mechs, and the Summoner is probably better than many of them. What I dislike about it is the particular way it’s flawed. The 3050 mechs tend to make certain “mistakes” on a regular basis. They pack in too many weapons, with too few heat sinks. They don’t carry enough ammunition for long engagements. They push the envelope on speed for their tonnage. We see these traits in the Nova, the Mad Dog, the Hellbringer, the Warhawk, even the vaunted Timber Wolf. These “mistakes” tell a story about the users. Like their mechs, the Clans are powerful, aggressive, and ambitious…but ultimately their reach exceeds their grasp, and they fall short of their potential.

The Summoner tells a different story. Most of it’s configs are oversinked and underarmed for its size. It frequently mounts plenty of ammunition tonnage, even if it distributes its ammo poorly between weapons. The Summoner says that the Clans are overly cautious and unwilling to exploit their advantages – and it’s the preferred mount of the Jade Falcons of all people! So I don’t dislike the Summoner because it’s bad. I dislike it because it lies.
You do realize that you can cram a Summoner config into a Timber Wolf with 5 tons free right? Makes you wonder about the Pryde config of the Timber Wolf, why wasn't it based of off a Summoner one?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #41 on: 03 October 2012, 23:01:03 »
You can cram a Summoner's config into a Timber Wolf with five tons left only if you leave out the jump jets, in which case it's not actually a Summoner's config.  Accounting for heatsinks and other fixed equipment (and on the heatsink front, the Summoner uses its alloted 14 base heatsinks excellently in most configs.  I can't say the same about the Timber Wolf), the Timber Wolf only holds a one ton advantage, not a five ton advantage.

Summoner effective equipment tonnage: 22.5 tons podspace + 5 tons jump jets + 4 tons heatsinks = 31.5 tons of equipment
Timber Wolf effective equipment tonnage: 27.5 tons podspace + 5 tons heatsinks = 32.5 tons of equipment
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #42 on: 03 October 2012, 23:32:13 »
You can cram a Summoner's config into a Timber Wolf with five tons left only if you leave out the jump jets, in which case it's not actually a Summoner's config.  Accounting for heatsinks and other fixed equipment (and on the heatsink front, the Summoner uses its alloted 14 base heatsinks excellently in most configs.  I can't say the same about the Timber Wolf), the Timber Wolf only holds a one ton advantage, not a five ton advantage.

Summoner effective equipment tonnage: 22.5 tons podspace + 5 tons jump jets + 4 tons heatsinks = 31.5 tons of equipment
Timber Wolf effective equipment tonnage: 27.5 tons podspace + 5 tons heatsinks = 32.5 tons of equipment
Ah, Scotty, I'm not quite getting your math here, or rather it's point, yes the Timber Wolf hard mounts 15 heat sinks, the Summoner hard mounts 14 which means the Timber Wolf doesn't need to mount extras so the math would be
Summoner pod space, 22.5 tons + 5 tons jj = 27.5 tons equal to the Timber Wolf's 27.5 ton pod space

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #43 on: 04 October 2012, 01:56:02 »
I'm contesting your assertion that the Timber Wolf can mount all of the Summoner's configs with five tons left over.  It cannot, by virtue of the jump jets included with every Summoner config.

You do realize that you can cram a Summoner config into a Timber Wolf with 5 tons free right?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #44 on: 04 October 2012, 04:33:21 »
I'm contesting your assertion that the Timber Wolf can mount all of the Summoner's configs with five tons left over.  It cannot, by virtue of the jump jets included with every Summoner config.
Those five ton where for the JJ's

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #45 on: 04 October 2012, 11:23:09 »
Which, if you're copying Summoner configs, must be included.  They're part of the config, even though they're hardwired to the base chassis.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #46 on: 04 October 2012, 12:26:36 »
Except that they're part of the base chassis.  You might as well give the Timby +2.5 tons for its extra armor.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #47 on: 04 October 2012, 13:14:21 »
You do realize that you can cram a Summoner config into a Timber Wolf with 5 tons free right? Makes you wonder about the Pryde config of the Timber Wolf, why wasn't it based of off a Summoner one?

Sure, you can configure a Timber Wolf like a slightly bigger Summoner if you want (I won't quible over exactly how much bigger). But the configs are precisely what I dislike about the Summoner - the base chasis is frimly in the "okay" category to me. I don't overly mind the fixed JJs (I actually think JJs shouldn't be podable), and while the lack of ES isn't ideal, the Summoner is hardly the only offender on that front.

(and on the heatsink front, the Summoner uses its alloted 14 base heatsinks excellently in most configs.  I can't say the same about the Timber Wolf)

I disagree. IMO, if an omni is going to mount fixed sinks, its configs should produce enough heat to reliably use them. On several Summoners the heat sinks are basically just dead weight - they don't even provide crit padding. There's plenty to criticize about the way most Timby configs balance (or rather, fail to balance) their heat, but carrying dead wieght sinks isn't usually one of them.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #48 on: 04 October 2012, 13:17:22 »
Are they truly dead weight, or are they anti-inferno armor?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #49 on: 04 October 2012, 13:48:18 »
Infernos? Pah! Padding against plasma cannons.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #50 on: 04 October 2012, 14:00:31 »
Most of the Summoner configs are pretty damn close to being alpha babies, but there are a few very-hot or very-cold configs.  There are only two or three that run ice cold (including one that can literally bathe in plasma and not gain any heat on a jumping alpha) but most of them use the heatsinks almost perfectly.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #51 on: 04 October 2012, 17:17:52 »
Which ones the one that can't ever gain heat?

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #52 on: 04 October 2012, 17:51:57 »
The Summoner A generates 20 heat on a jumping alpha, and mounts 14 double heatsinks for a total jumping alpha net heat of -8.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #53 on: 04 October 2012, 18:04:46 »
Not quite plasma-proof, but knowing that a jumping alpha combined with a max possible plasma bath won't even result in targeting mods the next turn...not bad. I bet Thors in Republic service facing Capellans probably went into battle with this config when possible...
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #54 on: 04 October 2012, 18:19:14 »
Indeed.  It's technically possible to overheat with repeated Bad Luck (or bad judgement) of the highest magnitude, it's practically the coolest running Clan Omni you're ever likely to find.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #55 on: 04 October 2012, 18:21:39 »
I think the Mad Dog C would argue that point.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #56 on: 04 October 2012, 18:23:07 »
I don't think anybody bothers challenging that icebox. Though the #2 slot is still pretty prestigious, and I think Thor A has a good shot at it.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #57 on: 04 October 2012, 20:05:23 »
The Bestest 'Mech ever!

Of course, I'm biased since I pull for the Jade Falcons.  I'll take a Summoner any day over any of the newer designs like the Night Gyr or the Flamberge.  If a Clan Heavy doesn't move at least 5/8, then I'm not interested and the Summoner has more character IMO than either of those machines.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #58 on: 09 October 2012, 11:24:17 »
Excellent write-up, even if I am a bit biased for it being my favourite Clan Omni and one of my fave 'Mechs full stop.

I've had a lot of good luck with Thor D, using it as a mobile sniper; jump into cover, take absurdly accurate shots at the enemy and so on and so forth. In theory it's damage is on the low side; in practice the combo of the TC and being able to Alpha all the live long day means that it can do a quite impressive amount of damage, especially when staying mobile and/or in cover. Thor D with a "Jumping Jack" Pilot is just monstrous.

With regards to Thor B, one odd-ball idea I've tried - and had work - was urban fire support. No, really. Hit target with NARC becon, jump away, indrect fire LRMs at them. Un-Clanlike, yes, but certainly fun and a great way to confuse an opponent.

All up, I love the Thor. Is it the best 'Mech ever? No. Does it have personality? Yes. And for me, personality beats optimization any day.
its also easier to fix, because it uses a standard chassis. If you are running a campaign thats analific on logistics, having a cluster thats full of Summoners and Hellbringers is nice as your IS pool is the same (only the armor requires two pools of diverse funds). One thing im discovering in The Boy's campaign is the sheer difficulty to fix clan mechs if you lack both endosteel and comparable FF armor, if you are a IS player...                        very nice write up, BTW sir!

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #59 on: 09 October 2012, 11:58:28 »
Uhm, thats exactly the reason why i always prefer standard armor/endo over ferro/standard IS, besides the obvious weight advantages.
No matter what happens, you will ALWAYS have to repair armor. And a lot more than structure.
So while FF makes the Mech cheaper initially, in the long run it will cost you a fortune.

I absolutely hated having Clan Mechs with FF in my IS campaigns. Seriously, how does a 3060 Merc keep his Masakari armored?

And my god, a Hellbringer in IS hands? I'd sell that thing instantly, or gut it for parts. Put the peepers into one of the armored Warhammers and be happy.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #60 on: 09 October 2012, 17:03:53 »
I absolutely hated having Clan Mechs with FF in my IS campaigns. Seriously, how does a 3060 Merc keep his Masakari armored?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #61 on: 09 October 2012, 20:30:14 »

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #62 on: 10 October 2012, 05:45:06 »
Nay, just needs a pinch of fairy dust every time it needs the FF.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #63 on: 22 January 2019, 14:10:27 »
Moving conversation from the Dire Wolf MotW thread.

Huh?  IIRC the A has the same problem with the Gauss Rifle, 8 shots while the SRM has 2t of ammo.  I cannot remember if the C has too much Streak ammo.  Then JHB pointed out the E, which has a ATM6 and ATM12.  I think the H, HH and Q all have ammo problems but I would have to recheck their sheets- H & Q too many SRM launchers vs ammo, and the HH suffering like the A.

With standard SRMs you at least have the excuse that you can carry multiple ammo types.

With Streak launchers, there's only one ammo type available so concern about running out of ammo is the only reason to stock up (yes, I remember when SSRM 2s could fire Infernos, but this is a 6 pod and the configuration came out long after the rule changed anyway).

The C variant is one of the few variants that doesn't have excessive ammo for the wrong weapon.

The H variant doesn't carry ammo, it's an all-laser config.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #64 on: 22 January 2019, 15:35:38 »
The Q is perfect, so obviously he doesn't have any idea of what he is talking about.

 :P
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #65 on: 22 January 2019, 15:41:34 »
Good writeup.

Are not the G and Q configs associated with Quinn Kerensky?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #66 on: 22 January 2019, 15:44:26 »
I thought the Wolves had maintained exclusive control of the Kerensky bloodname, at least through the start of the Jihad...

Not the Bloodname but rather the genetic heritage. Quinn didn't fit in with the Wolve's status quo and was 'lightly defended' when the Falcons trialed for her. She's been taking it out on the Wolves ever since.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #67 on: 22 January 2019, 15:59:20 »
Does that mean the Summoner needs-

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The above is the original comment that spawned the discussion of the configs.  Since I did not have the ammo counts handy I was doing it from memory.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #68 on: 22 January 2019, 16:26:31 »
Being an Omni, I'm not sure it would really be valid. Being that most configs are batshit-stupid in terms of their layout, I wouldn't ARGUE it either.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #69 on: 23 January 2019, 01:44:33 »
Quirks are for chassis not habits.  :P
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #70 on: 23 January 2019, 10:07:31 »
Quirks are for chassis not habits.  :P

Lol, so instead of saying its a mech quirk, you are saying it should be a AToW trait for Jade Falcon MW & techs?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #71 on: 23 January 2019, 11:55:53 »
Maybe it should be blamed on the Society?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #72 on: 26 January 2019, 00:51:18 »
Maybe it should be blamed on the Society?

It takes a village to design an Omni loadout.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #73 on: 30 January 2019, 11:35:04 »
It takes a village to design an Omni loadout.

That would explain a couple of Warhawk configs...
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #74 on: 19 July 2020, 22:54:01 »
Resurrecting the thread a bit ahead of schedule (I assume all the relevant threads will be brought back up when their chassis' Recognition Guide comes out of moratorium), but I was curious about the Thor F. It's not a new config, but I hadn't really noticed it before seeing the sheet in RG3. Any productive thoughts on what it's for? It seems to me like it's built to put out an above-average number of damage clusters but also keep those clusters decently large instead of tiny SRMs or LB-X pellets, but I'm not certain as to when that's a good idea. Battlesuit hunting? Shooting infantry inside buildings?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #75 on: 19 July 2020, 23:19:43 »
Looks like a dedicated if inefficient sniper.

Wouldn't use it for BA hunting - at very best you're talking 8-9 5-point hits, with no real knockout blows. Scattered across a BA point or squad, averaging 4 5-pointers, it's going to take a lot of whittling. And with its 3 heaviest weapons having minimum ranges, not for city fighting either.

One might speculate it's for vehicle hunting, but ... there are better (Hellbringer F is doing it right).
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #76 on: 19 July 2020, 23:36:07 »
None of the Thor F's weapons have minimum ranges.  The only really notable thing I see about it is that it's the basis for the Thor II's primary configuration.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #77 on: 20 July 2020, 00:18:49 »
Do'h! Still wouldn't pick it for city fighting.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #78 on: 20 July 2020, 00:24:15 »
Might have been a failed or pre-Plasma effort at IS BA hunting . . . the 3 weapon types, Ultra, ERML, LRM10, are going to put 5 or 7 pt hits for everything but the LRM which will be variable.  Some of the mobile IS suits will drop from a single 7 point hit, but a pair of 5s is going to take down a lot of the regular IS medium suits- Purifiers, IS Stds, Cav/Raiden, GDL Stds, Acheilius, and Longinus.  It will also do that damage at beyond most the ranges those IS suits can really hit back.

And unlike a Plasma Cannon equipped design, its also going to put out damage on mechs rather than just heat.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #79 on: 20 July 2020, 00:40:32 »
My thinking about suit hunting was idea that you lead a salvo with the lasers. If you're lucky and they each hit different troopers...even if you're sitting at an Elemental Point, that's the majority of that squad's troopers that will be killed by the following 5-point hits from the cannons and LRMs. You won't kill a Point in a single salvo, but even average cluster rolls means they're seriously messed up, almost combat ineffective, and certainly gonna be wiped out by a second such salvo.

As for infantry, remember that if they're in buildings you do NOT want anti-personnel guns, those lose 99% of their effectiveness the moment they meet a wall. You need guns big enough to do damage even after the damage asborption of the building, and since each gun will still only do 1-2 damage to the troops, you need multiple such weapons.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #80 on: 20 July 2020, 01:05:57 »
Sometimes I think the knockout punch of a bunch of 10 or 15 point hits on something is over-emphasized.  A machine that's capable of putting a half-dozen 5 point clusters on an opponent at a time, and doing so on favorable numbers, is absolutely going to grind down an opponent faster than it feels like.  In that sense you don't feel like you're taking very much damage and then whoops you took crits to four different locations this turn wow when did that happen.

EDIT: I mean, I say all that and I can't help but mention that the Grand Summoner Prime does exactly this but just does it better (identical armament with one additional ER ML, plus the chassis upgrades), so I can't really say I'd pick a Summoner F if I have one of those already available.

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« Last Edit: 20 July 2020, 01:08:15 by Scotty »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #81 on: 21 July 2020, 10:00:17 »
Sometimes I think the knockout punch of a bunch of 10 or 15 point hits on something is over-emphasized.  A machine that's capable of putting a half-dozen 5 point clusters on an opponent at a time, and doing so on favorable numbers, is absolutely going to grind down an opponent faster than it feels like.  In that sense you don't feel like you're taking very much damage and then whoops you took crits to four different locations this turn wow when did that happen.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #82 on: 21 July 2020, 10:20:59 »
Maybe I just wasn't playing smart but I found the Awesome -11M with it's 8xlppc and the Battlemaster Calvin to be underwhelming.
Extremely luck-dependent. I once tried a fight against the MM bot where we both got a custom assault with 8 MLs as short-range armament. Mine couldn't kill a medium with some 20 hits, his killed a heavy with 10...

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #83 on: 21 July 2020, 13:55:31 »
The one time I used an AWS 11M, it was spectacularly successful, prompting complaints from the opponent, though it might have helped that he decided to use his Timberwolf to try and melee a Marksman.
Though I believe the sweet spot is somewhere in between:
Large hits are a plus, as are many hits, and in the end, some damage needs to be dealt.
I personally subscribe to the "1 big gun, followed by as many cuts as possible" approach. That said, the summoner isn't always stellar in that regard, either.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #84 on: 21 July 2020, 20:00:18 »
I personally subscribe to the "1 big gun, followed by as many cuts as possible" approach. That said, the summoner isn't always stellar in that regard, either.
Sounds like you and I read the same book.  :)
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #85 on: 22 July 2020, 12:40:37 »
The one time I used an AWS 11M, it was spectacularly successful, prompting complaints from the opponent, though it might have helped that he decided to use his Timberwolf to try and melee a Marksman.
Though I believe the sweet spot is somewhere in between:
Large hits are a plus, as are many hits, and in the end, some damage needs to be dealt.
I personally subscribe to the "1 big gun, followed by as many cuts as possible" approach. That said, the summoner isn't always stellar in that regard, either.
That’s what makes the Nova a terror if someone’s willing to ride the heat curve.  “Wait, *how many* 7 point hits?”
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #86 on: 23 July 2020, 07:06:21 »
Resurrecting the thread a bit ahead of schedule (I assume all the relevant threads will be brought back up when their chassis' Recognition Guide comes out of moratorium), but I was curious about the Thor F. It's not a new config, but I hadn't really noticed it before seeing the sheet in RG3. Any productive thoughts on what it's for? It seems to me like it's built to put out an above-average number of damage clusters but also keep those clusters decently large instead of tiny SRMs or LB-X pellets, but I'm not certain as to when that's a good idea. Battlesuit hunting? Shooting infantry inside buildings?

Destroying the armor companies in Lyran RCTs while still being able to threaten Lyran 'Mechs? All those 5 point hits could quickly turn a tank into a pillbox. (Though LB-X would be better in that role.)
« Last Edit: 23 July 2020, 07:07:56 by mbear »
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #87 on: 23 July 2020, 23:14:33 »
It has 3 ER mediums and a number of low heat backups. Blackjack Syndrome - it's hard to be a bad mech if you mount enough mediums.

It's the third cheapest Thor by BV. I'm not sure it's a deal, but I'd say it compares fairly well with the AA and B, those closest to it.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #88 on: 23 July 2020, 23:25:22 »
Well, some of it comes down to how much you want to ride the Ultras- you have a potential of 30 damage at 21 hexes, 51 at 15 hexes- lol, though better odds at 14 hexes.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #89 on: 24 July 2020, 09:18:22 »
It seems like a config for when you're not sure what you're going to face, but conventional stuff is a distinct possibility. You can put out plenty of clusters for things that worry about that (tanks, BA, etc), but they're also big clusters so you can still effectively engage things that don't care as much(mechs, buildings).
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #90 on: 24 July 2020, 13:50:37 »
I would personally find the Prime superior for that sort of general use. The E and G also suggest themselves.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #91 on: 24 July 2020, 14:07:55 »
I never said the F was efficient at that role, the others definitely have it beat there, even the Prime. About the only the the F has going for it is being cheaper than any of those configs. Only a bit compared to the Prime, but a noticeable margin on the other two. If those points mean I've got the margin to cram an extra Point of Elementals into my force for the day, I think I might actually look quite seriously at the F.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #92 on: 24 July 2020, 17:35:21 »
I would humbly submit that a combination of 5 point and 7 point hits is significantly more efficient at Toad Hunting than the Prime.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #93 on: 24 July 2020, 18:32:21 »
That was my thought when I resurrected this thread, too. An Elemental Point hit by a full strike from a Thorf may not be likely to get wiped out completely, but barring some bad luck you can reasonably call them crippled, allowing the mech to move on to the next Point. The great number of more fragile suits out there will just get murdilated, and the tougher ones aren't going to be very happy either when the Thorf comes back for a second salvo.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #94 on: 31 July 2020, 14:43:48 »
Are we looking for an in-universe explanation here?

Cause out of universe its the closest recreation of the MW4 Summoner/Thor the designers could create. (Missing a ERML and 2 MGs)

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #95 on: 04 August 2020, 06:47:41 »
Had another thought: Maybe it's a test for the Jupiter's configuration?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #96 on: 04 August 2020, 08:31:42 »
Are we looking for an in-universe explanation here?

I'm looking for its role in the context of a tabletop game. If my opponent brings one to the battle, what are they likely to do with it, which of my units will it be going after, and which will it be avoiding? Similarly, why should I bring one, what will it add to my force, what can it do or kill, and what should I keep it away from?

As always, discussions of efficiency are completely irrelevant.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Summoner (Thor) Omni
« Reply #97 on: 04 August 2020, 12:34:33 »
In addition to beating up on Battle Armor, I would add it works against vehicles and anything else that doesn't react well to clusters of hits. It can put out up to 10 clusters of damage and while that doesn't sound like much compared to a large bore LB-X, the bigger clusters will add up quick. Even against enemy 'Mechs, 3-4 of the 7 weapons hitting should force a PSR, making it a reliable method of forcing PSRs.
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