Units that may be involved in IlKhan's Eyes Only

[tassa_kay]

I wouldn't necessarily get my hopes up on that one. The Wolves as a Clan can't afford dissent at this particular juncture in their existence, and I'm sure they're all keenly aware of that fact. Plus it makes sense that they would be all in with Alaric now, given what he just accomplished (conquering Terra) and what he's working to accomplish (recreating the Star League). Not only do they have a seat at that table, they're a part of the ilClan and have helped/are helping to bring all of that about. I don't necessarily see them serving as the voice of dissent anytime soon... I think those voices left with the Dragoons and the Horses.

[BrianDavion]

I wouldn't necessarily get my hopes up on that one. The Wolves as a Clan can't afford dissent at this particular juncture in their existence, and I'm sure they're all keenly aware of that fact. Plus it makes sense that they would be all in with Alaric now, given what he just accomplished (conquering Terra) and what he's working to accomplish (recreating the Star League). Not only do they have a seat at that table, they're a part of the ilClan and have helped/are helping to bring all of that about. I don't necessarily see them serving as the voice of dissent anytime soon... I think those voices left with the Dragoons and the Horses.

one can have disagreement without dissent tassa. the clan has a clan council and discussions and debate on "well what now" could be intreasting if done well.

Battletech doesn't need another capellan confederation, a monolithic block where everyone buys into the exact same views as the leader. One is too many as is.

[tassa_kay]

one can have disagreement without dissent tassa. the clan has a clan council and discussions and debate on "well what now" could be intreasting if done well.

I'm aware of that, Brian, and I stand by what I said. There's no reason to expect any disagreement in the Wolves right now, not while they're basking in the ultimate win. Maybe in the future, if things start going badly, but there's nothing to indicate that this is the case yet.

[Alex Keller]

Let's just say that there's a reason we've consistently rated art below text when discussing issues of canon, and recent examples *gives Legends a side-eye* have not helped.

I'm torn. On one hand, Legends is such a cool concept. But the execution of the first sourcebook was so full of glaring errors that it made me wish they had waited another year or two to get the mechs and art right.

I'm hopeful that the longer wait for IKEO means we'll have less errors

[Rob Bendig]

I'm curious. Is there a list anywhere of the glaring errors in Legends?

[Cannonshop]

which is what I hope IS DONE WITH THE WOLVES IN EXILE.

turning the wolves into a 100% cult of personality around Alaric is a bad idea. the biggest problem the wolves have had since the refusal war is being turned into two clans with shallow personality cults.

Pattern says you're not going to get your wish, Brian.  'Cult of personality' seems to be the central part of victory in Battletech, along with the losers taking stupid pills and drink'n dat Jonestown Style Kool-Aid.

Katherine, Victor, The Master, Hanse Davion, Phelan-whatever-his-name-is-this-week, Vlad Ward, Sunny-boy Liao, etc etc. etc.  the trend is NOT toward effective factions that still contain dissent, disagreement, or opposition views, but toward single-point-of-view monoliths.  (Devlin Stone anyone?)

It strikes me, therefore, that now that theyr'e all one big happy Clan, all those differences will evaporate under the phantasmic Kharizma of Alaric.

I could be wrong, but it's the tendency in the property and one of those 'benchmarkers' along with making most effective leaders a relative of Hans.

[thedancingjoker]

There's no reason to expect any disagreement in the Wolves right now, not while they're basking in the ultimate win. Maybe in the future, if things start going badly, but there's nothing to indicate that this is the case yet.

I agree with this, I just don't want to since Wolf-in-Exile was one of my favorite factions.  It became my favorite faction following the death of Comstar, so I'm feeling a bit cursed here.

[Church14]

I agree with this, I just don't want to since Wolf-in-Exile was one of my favorite factions.  It became my favorite faction following the death of Comstar, so I'm feeling a bit cursed here.

I don’t care in any way about WiE, I still want something of them to survive. Even if it’s just “Alaric stops being wolf khan on paper, Chance becomes Khan, Miriam Shaw becomes saKhan and has some say in clan politics.”

There have been a lot of discussions around the death of RotS (and death of WiE applies here). With what little we’ve heard from Ray and them, my impression is the story group is conscious about fans of factions feeling like they got hung out to dry. There’s a desire that fans have some sort of ‘spiritual successor’ to enjoy.

[BrianDavion]

I don’t care in any way about WiE, I still want something of them to survive. Even if it’s just “Alaric stops being wolf khan on paper, Chance becomes Khan, Miriam Shaw becomes saKhan and has some say in clan politics.”

There have been a lot of discussions around the death of RotS (and death of WiE applies here). With what little we’ve heard from Ray and them, my impression is the story group is conscious about fans of factions feeling like they got hung out to dry. There’s a desire that fans have some sort of ‘spiritual successor’ to enjoy.

I think just making Shaw Sakhan isn't going to do much a factions identity is more then a single character or so a good start would be having the Wolves put the Wolfhound IIC into production and making a point to ensure the Kell bloodname produces some leaders

[Colt Ward]

the Kell bloodname produces some leaders

The Kell thing is screwed up, they should have had some little Kells taking Trials of Position to join the late Jihad but . . .

[BrianDavion]

The Kell thing is screwed up, they should have had some little Kells taking Trials of Position to join the late Jihad but . . .

it's absolutel bafflingly stupid I agree. the idea that the blood house simply is essentially absent makes ZERO sense.

[Colt Ward]

"Hey we have this central tenet of Clan politics, it helps get members to positions like Galaxy Commander, Star Admiral, or even saKhan/Khan.  The Bloodhouse can provide support for those power positions as a voting bloc for their agenda and is required to make deals with other Bloodhouses to expanding votes for initiatives.

But we have this new Bloodhouse founded by the Khan, who while a legend among the Clan would still have some opponents (even if not the Vlad-level of political opponent) and was waiting for his love to get a bloodname to have children.  She gets her Bloodname about as soon as he has his new Bloodhouse, but despite being a Inner Sphere freebirth living on his parent's planet with siblings and niece/nephews decides not to start any sibkos for his bloodhouse.  Does not start any sibkos for his bloodhouse after the spouse dies during a vicious war that wrecks the attempt to restore the touman after the split.  He then dies, and in memoriam the new Clan leadership lets the Bloodhouse & Bloodname lie dormant.  The Inner Sphere's HPGs crash, everyone re-arms . . . and still no Kell Bloodhouse sibkos."

Guess the Warden Wolf leadership agreed with Vlad about Phelan's worthiness?

[Jal Phoenix]

Let me point you to the Puma entry in Rec Guide 3, and notable pilot Star Commander Evgeniy (Kell). Also, Shrapnel Issue 4, and the Story "The Weight of a Name", featuring Star Captain Lana...Kell.

[BrianDavion]

Let me point you to the Puma entry in Rec Guide 3, and notable pilot Star Commander Evgeniy (Kell). Also, Shrapnel Issue 4, and the Story "The Weight of a Name", featuring Star Captain Lana...Kell.

Star Commander Evgeniy: This Exiled Wolf is known
not for what he has done, but from whence he comes.
Evgeniy is one of three warriors to graduate from the
first sibko raised from the genes of Phelan Kell.

thing is, this is a recguide thing, between that and Lana Kell it really does feel like the Kell genes where used EXTREMELY spareingly.

[Psycho]

When you have access to the legacies of Wards, Kerenskys, and other lines that have produced warriors of great repute for a dozen generations, why is it so strange to favour them over a line that consists of a single warrior?

[Cannonshop]

When you have access to the legacies of Wards, Kerenskys, and other lines that have produced warriors of great repute for a dozen generations, why is it so strange to favour them over a line that consists of a single warrior?

The avoidance of inbreeding and overspecialization?  Think on it this way: once upon a time, those teacup-sized yappy dogs? were wolves.

go too far down the selective breeding path and you end up with overdomestication.

but then, the Clanners are Lamarckians, not mendellian, so it's not a stretch to suggest they aren't prone to think about how overspecializing they're getting, but then, they let a guy with NO genetics claim 'Ward' and he's the ilKhan now-without so much as a blood test to verify the inheritance.

[Arkansas Warrior]

When you have access to the legacies of Wards, Kerenskys, and other lines that have produced warriors of great repute for a dozen generations, why is it so strange to favour them over a line that consists of a single warrior?

It’s not so much that they’re favored as it is that Kell genes seem to have rarely been used *at all*. That goes well beyond “not highly favored”.

[Colt Ward]

Let me point you to the Puma entry in Rec Guide 3, and notable pilot Star Commander Evgeniy (Kell). Also, Shrapnel Issue 4, and the Story "The Weight of a Name", featuring Star Captain Lana...Kell.

A) Lana Kell came from a KERENSKY sibko.

B) TBH, the probable backer name's fluff does not fit with the retcon they did removing the Kells from Anastasia's past.  I cannot comment more than that as I do not have RG3.

When you have access to the legacies of Wards, Kerenskys, and other lines that have produced warriors of great repute for a dozen generations, why is it so strange to favour them over a line that consists of a single warrior?

Yet they re-started the Moons & Weavers from Jaguar bondsmen/abathka, making sibkos and letting them Trial for Propagation.  The Warden Wolves also founded the Bloodhouse Brahe at some point, with at least one active Bloodname in the 3130s.

But they did not have sibkos of their Khan, the warrior that won a whole world unaugmented, one of the youngest Khans in the Clans, etc etc.

[Arkansas Warrior]

A) Lana Kell came from a KERENSKY sibko.

Kerensky and Kell. But either way it shows they’re using Kell genes, right?

[Colt Ward]

Kerensky and Kell. But either way it shows they’re using Kell genes, right?

It is more that the sponsoring Bloodhouse is Kerensky, the maternal genes are Kerensky.

But yes, valid for the point 'why bother with the newbie?'

[Paul]

But yes, valid for the point 'why bother with the newbie?'

All 800 were newbies once.

One of the problems with the Clan system is that it'd only work long term if you elevate people to a new Bloodname based on their accomplishments with some frequency. There's some very obvious incentives to never do this that prevent that policy from happening.

[Psycho]

The avoidance of inbreeding and overspecialization? 

[looks at aero pilot phenotype]... yeah, I don't think they're too worried about that. 

[Charistoph]

When you have access to the legacies of Wards, Kerenskys, and other lines that have produced warriors of great repute for a dozen generations, why is it so strange to favour them over a line that consists of a single warrior?

At one point, they were all lines of a single warrior.

[looks at aero pilot phenotype]... yeah, I don't think they're too worried about that. 

They are, but they can cut out the bad genes before allowing them to prosper in a womb.  That means that aero/prot pilot size is as deliberate as is the Elemental.