2 IS MPLs or 1 MVSP?

[misterpants]

Ignoring the the different tech levels for a moment: Got an assault design that has 2 MVSPs as secondary close-in armament. 4 MPLs take up the same space and mass. Do I go for sheer volume of fire at point-blank or a more...interesting set of options? (Not enough room to go with 8 ML/ERMLs btw).

[DarkISI]

It depends on what kind of attackers you expect. Extremely fast close range assailants are easier to hit with  VSP Lasers than with standard Pulse Lasers. You will dish out less damage, but you will get it more focused since you hit for 9 points instead of 6.

[cray]

How about a large laser or PPC of some sort? If you've got 8 tons and 2-4 crits, you could fit all sorts of snazzy weapons with better target numbers thanks to their range advantages.

[Neufeld]

I would go with MVSPs for the extra range. Have you considered one MVSP and four MLs?

[A. Lurker]

Hard to tell without knowing more about what the design looks like in general (at which point this thread would become more something for the Fan Design/BattleMechs board, I suppose). For raw close-in damage potential at a slight increase in heat (say, because my primary weapons are all long-range ones, possibly with some minimum range issues), I'd take the MPLs -- if only because they can force a PSR by themselves if all four happen to hit, which a pair of MVSPLs can't quite match even at their best. On the other hand, if I already had one big primary gun covering the close-range bracket, AC/20 style, then their better range could easily make the variable speed pulse lasers more generally useful.

[Blackjack Jones]

Going to agree with the crowd but with a slightly different take. The first question I would have is, what is the 'Mech's intended role and targets?

-If it's an all or nothing 'Mech killer, then the standard MPL's can force a PSR with your secondary armament.

-Is it a "Kill Everything" design? Don't forget that VSPL's have the AI tag, and the VSPL is essentially a mini Plasma Rifle where PBI's are concerned.
Heck, the Large VSPL is an ammo free Plasma Rifle as far as PBI's are concerned. EDIT for brain fart.

The Medium VSPL is a better choice than the MPL for light/medium vehicle killing as well, given the range and to-hit mods.

-Is it a jumper?  Both work well here, but the MPL's let you tailor your heat load a bit easier when hopping and using the primaries.


If it were me, I'd probably split the difference- One Medium VSPL and two MPL's. Wouldn't have to worry about carrying SPL's/MG's/Flamers to kill grunts,
and still have decent all-around punch.

[misterpants]

It already has a SVSP for anti-infantry. Other weapons are an HPPC as primary ranged, and a battery of MMLs for all ranges.

[whistler]

i dunno... i've just never taken to VSPs.  4 tons is alot of weight for a single pulse laser, and the variable damage and mods can be a real pain in the ass.

i tend to prefer standard PLs, or X-Pulse weapons now that they are more widely available and readily accepted.

[Youngblood]

I'd say it still has much to do with the rest of the armament of the unit, as well as whether it's a 'Mech or something else.

And also, something to consider: At optimal Medium Pulse Laser range (2 hexes), a Medium VSPL does the same amount of damage as a Large Pulse Laser, with increased accuracy and less heat.  So there are a lot trade-offs, including hole-punching ability, which leads me to ask what else the unit is packing for damage output.

[mutantmagnet]

-Is it a "Kill Everything" design? Don't forget that VSPL's have the AI tag, and the VSPL is essentially a mini Plasma Rifle where PBI's are concerned.
Heck, the Large VSPL is an ammo free Plasma Rifle as far as PBI's are concerned.

They are better than direct fire weapons but they aren't as effective as plasma rifles or machine guns or fragmentation ammo.

In fact because of how standard pulse lasers work, medium pulse lasers trump VSPL mediums.

Only the Small VSPL is a clear winner over its alternative.

The VSPL Mediums are terrible and should always be swapped out for medium pulses. The only advantage VSPL mediums have is range and for the mass you pay to get that range bonus you are better off with standard medium lasers or even ER mediums and using the weight savings for anything else.

If you want close range defense against infantry at ranges they can't hit back and exceptional to hit mods at close range that keep jumpers and close range speedsters in check then medium pulse is always better. Period.

[Blackjack Jones]

It already has a SVSP for anti-infantry. Other weapons are an HPPC as primary ranged, and a battery of MMLs for all ranges.

Hrmm, just go with the MPL's then. You need some consistant damage to back up the HPPC to keep getting the PSR's,
as the MML's may bottom out on the Cluster Hits Table, and you need more padding in case you miss with the big gun anyhow.

They are better than direct fire weapons but they aren't as effective as plasma rifles or machine guns or fragmentation ammo.

In fact because of how standard pulse lasers work, medium pulse lasers trump VSPL mediums.

Only the Small VSPL is a clear winner over its alternative.

The VSPL Mediums are terrible and should always be swapped out for medium pulses. The only advantage VSPL mediums have is range and for the mass you pay to get that range bonus you are better off with standard medium lasers or even ER mediums and using the weight savings for anything else.

If you want close range defense against infantry at ranges they can't hit back and exceptional to hit mods at close range that keep jumpers and close range speedsters in check then medium pulse is always better. Period.

I misremembered how the AI function on VSPL's worked when I typed my first post, so yes the comparison of the Large VSPL to the Plasma Rifle was way off the mark. Still, there is still something nice about an AI weapon that has consistent levels damage instead of worrying about hitting snake eyes for damage.

Not sure what you mean in your last statement. If you are meaning the weight advantage for MPL's, I don't think that was ever in question. As for the rest, the Medium VSPL is a better
Direct Armor, Anti-Infantry, and Precision weapon across most of the range the MPL has (hex 6 goes to the MPL on all counts due to the VSPL's odd hit brackets), then goes out another
3 hexes, albeit at a reduced capacity. You get what you pay for.

But it's a moot point really. The Medium X-Pulse eats both of these for lunch across most of the board, if not all.

[Youngblood]

It already has a SVSP for anti-infantry. Other weapons are an HPPC as primary ranged, and a battery of MMLs for all ranges.

Oops, I totally missed this.  I'd say go for the VSPLs.  You need more hole-punching power once you got within your HPPC's minimum range.

[va_wanderer]

I'd be tempted to trade in for a single SNPPC in one location and the MPL in the other. The snubbie would give you just enough punch at longer ranges to put the HPPC + SNPPC into "stagger" territory, and the big short range band means it's pretty darn good elsewhere, and SNPPC + MPL + VSPL should be just enough firepower for that close in 20-point combo too.

[misterpants]

But it's a moot point really. The Medium X-Pulse eats both of these for lunch across most of the board, if not all.

Forgot about those actually.

[Youngblood]

Can the 'Mech handle all that heat up close, though?  That's 24 heat on top of movement heat and whatever amount of heat the MMLs are producing when they're firing SRMs.

[misterpants]

Can the 'Mech handle all that heat up close, though?  That's 24 heat on top of movement heat and whatever amount of heat the MMLs are producing when they're firing SRMs.

Actually, not without dropping some of the MMLs. Slightly undersinked with the original 2 MVSPLs and the full MML barrage, but a flamer hit solves that problem.

EDIT: May as well link to it by this point. http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,891.msg67624.html#msg67624

[Youngblood]

Ahhh, a Grand Titan.  Heh, well...I'd say close-range armament is the least of its worries.  While I'd keep the MVSPLs to keep the flavor of a pulse-y assault 'Mech, what this 'Mech is really screaming for instead, is va_wanderer's suggestion of a Snub-Nose PPC to complement the Heavy.