100% Genuine Fake Rules

[Force of Nature]

If your name is JadeHellbringer and you play this game, you will never have bad dice rolls.

I will let him explain if this rule is fake or not...  ;)

[Feign]

One of my players used to exploit the old FASA-era partial cover rules (higher to-hit penalty, but roll on the punch location table).  We've been playing with TW rules since they were brand new and he still occasionally tries to use the old rule.

[SCC]

Stuff like the classic "hatchets always roll on the punch table" and the like.

If I'm remembering my lore right that one about hatchets was actually based on a similar one for clubs.

[truetanker]

A 0/0 pilot always hits.... even with Pulse lasers and at Short Range.

WRONG! Roll a 2 and it always misses...

Hell even a 7/7 can hit on a 12!

TT

[Colt Ward]

huh . . ?

[Empyrus]

huh . . ?

I think Hellraiser suggest that people play with non-existent rule that 2 is a critical fail effectively and that 12 is a critical success, regardless of whether they'd be hits or misses otherwise.

[Colt Ward]

Ah, IIRC MWDA had that as a rule . . . which is where I could see it.

[SCC]

Actually I think there is a rule about such numbers, just can't seem to find it in a quick look at TW

[Empyrus]

Actually I think there is a rule about such numbers, just can't seem to find it in a quick look at TW

No such rule exists.

What does exist is this:
A modified to-hit number of over 12 means the shot is automatic miss, in which case the player can declare they actually won't do the attack at all.
A modified to-hit number of under 2 always hits but depending on the weapon, the roll still must be made (eg Ultras jam on result of 2).

TacOps has Fumble rules, where roll of 2 is a miss and results in a second roll where 12 causes damage to the weapon.

[NeonKnight]

It is possible....extremely possible, that the rule DID EXIST in relation to BattleTech, but not as people think.

It has been a long, long time since I played the Clicky Version, and based on most other game of it's Ilk, I can easily see the Double-1's being an auto miss, and the Double-6's an auto hit regardless of the number needed to hit. This is pretty common in most other tabletop games, Warhammer has 6's always succeed, and 1's always fail. D&D has long held to the the 20 always hits, and 1 always misses.

And, a quick Dowloand and perusal of the Clicky Rules (Found here) does indeed show the 2 a Miss, 12 a Hit rule:

From the Book, Pages 14-15:

Rolling 2 and 12 on the White Dice
Whenever you give a ranged combat or close combat order to a unit and roll a 2 on the
two white dice, you automatically miss the target. This is called a critical miss. Your unit
must turn its combat dial clockwise 1 click after the critical miss. This represents a weapon
backfire or your unit damaging itself during the order.

and

If you roll a 12 on the two white dice, you have automatically hit the target. This is called
a critical hit. If you were trying to damage the affected unit or units, the critical hit delivers 1
extra click of damage to each affected unit.

[Starbuck]

well, i do remember this "rule" from the mid-nineties , way before mwda clicky-tech stuff.
i suppose it comes from mechwarrior rpg, where you have fumbles, i.e. a double-one is always a failure...

[SCC]

A modified to-hit number of under 2 always hits but depending on the weapon, the roll still must be made (eg Ultras jam on result of 2).

This and the direct hit rules might be the source then.

[Xotl]

It's just a common rule in games in general.  I'm not surprised that it spread to BT.  But the upcoming Manual should do a good job in helping quash it as a notion.

[r0sshk]

"You can't get headshot from the rear."

It arguably makes a lot of sense with a lot of chassis, but I don't think there's an actual rule for it.

[theothersarah]

"You can't get headshot from the rear."

It arguably makes a lot of sense with a lot of chassis, but I don't think there's an actual rule for it.

It would make a good quirk though, for applicable 'mechs. Head hits rolled on the rear table hit the CT rear instead, or something.

[r0sshk]

It would make a good quirk though, for applicable 'mechs. Head hits rolled on the rear table hit the CT rear instead, or something.

A couple people I know had an hour-long heated discussion about this when a... Stormcrow, I believe, got shot in the rear arc by a gauss rifle and suffered a headshot. After said hour of yelling they resolved to treat it as a critical torso hit instead. Since the gauss round also punched through the armour and struck internals, the hit scored a total of 3 crits. All in the engine. And that was that.

Strangely enough, the Stormcrow player was not the one who argued, but the guy who fired the Gauss and another player. (We had a free-for-all Solaris thing going)

[truetanker]

I got a strange question.

Can a mech with UMUs fire above surface with A4 and ballistic weapons?
TT

[Weirdo]

If you are surfaced, yes. You might want to check on the rules forum to see if UMUs are powerful enough to lift a mech halfway out of the water, though. I have no idea there.

[Getz]

There is a "stacking 20's" rule in TacOps that adds +1 to the PSR for every 20 points the unit takes, BUT, the other half of the rule that is often forgotten about/overlooked is that the PSR is also modified by the weight class of the unit making the PSR.

L = +1,
M = 0,
H = -1, and
A = -2)

So, if you're using the stacking 20's rule and your Atlas takes 40+ points of damage in a turn, he's going to make a PSR with a +2 penalty (for the stacking 20's) and a -2 bonus (for being an assault mech).

At the end of the day, IMO, the use of the full stacking 20's rule unfairly reduces the value of a light mech without actually reflecting it in BV2.

Wow, I did not know that.  Thanks for flagging it up, I've been playing that wrong for years.

It actually makes a lot of sense from a balance perspective, if you use the stacking damage rules without the weight class modifier, slow assault mechs have tremendous difficulty staying upright.

[idea weenie]

Firing high with artillery so the shells take longer to arrive.

I.e. artillery unit has a max flight time for their shells of 10 turns.  Their current location means their shells have a minimum 4 turn flight time.

So on turn X they fire so their shells will arrive in 10 turns.  On turn X+1 they fire their shells so the shells will arrive in 9 turns.  On turn X+2 for 8 turns, aso to turn X+6 firing the shells so they arrive in 4 turns (the minimum).  So on turn X+10 there are a total of 7 shells arriving.  The disadvantage is that they don't get to adjust fire until turn X+11 because the shells haven't landed yet.  The advantage (and primary use) is plotting a time on target fire mission so the PCs can cross the map, then have a massive fire mission land on their pursuers.

"Incoming artillery has right of way, and we are shelling our own position. Make sure you are not here when it arrives."

[Colt Ward]

You are talking about applying the Crusader's FCS- which can pump out 8 shots which will hit for a single TOT . . . we do that with various systems currently, but afaik BT rules do not reflect that situation.

But I would love to see a errata for that- just have to cut the range in half for that sort of shot IMO.

[r0sshk]

Firing high with artillery so the shells take longer to arrive.

I.e. artillery unit has a max flight time for their shells of 10 turns.  Their current location means their shells have a minimum 4 turn flight time.

So on turn X they fire so their shells will arrive in 10 turns.  On turn X+1 they fire their shells so the shells will arrive in 9 turns.  On turn X+2 for 8 turns, aso to turn X+6 firing the shells so they arrive in 4 turns (the minimum).  So on turn X+10 there are a total of 7 shells arriving.  The disadvantage is that they don't get to adjust fire until turn X+11 because the shells haven't landed yet.  The advantage (and primary use) is plotting a time on target fire mission so the PCs can cross the map, then have a massive fire mission land on their pursuers.

"Incoming artillery has right of way, and we are shelling our own position. Make sure you are not here when it arrives."

That doesn't make any logical sense, though. You're firing a shell, not a rocket.

If you change the angle of your gun, your shot will go further. I mean, that's how you get range on artillery guns to begin with. By using the ballistic arc and maths. Sure, eventually your arc will be so high that the range starts decreasing again, but that still means there are only two angles at which a gun can hit any one spot. Which would allow you to hit a target later that usual, yes, but only in a set interval.

Range	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Outgoing arc	x+1	x+2	x+3	x+4	x+5	x+6	x+7	x+8	x+9	x+10
Incoming arc	x+19	x+18	x+17	x+16	x+15	x+14	x+13	x+12	x+11	x+10

Not perfect and kinda assumes the shells move at terminal velocity but, yunno. It makes my point.

[Sabelkatten]

Vary the propellant charge. That's how it's done IRL. Fire N rounds with different muzzle velocity at high angle, then N more with low angle, and you can put 6-8 rounds on the target almost simultaneously.

[r0sshk]

Vary the propellant charge. That's how it's done IRL. Fire N rounds with different muzzle velocity at high angle, then N more with low angle, and you can put 6-8 rounds on the target almost simultaneously.

Which requires specialized equipment that does not appear to exist in the Battletech Universe.

Though granted, I guess a veteran gun crew might be able to prepare a volley like that if they had plenty time to prepare and knew exactly what and where their target was.

[jh316]

Which requires specialized equipment that does not appear to exist in the Battletech Universe.

Though granted, I guess a veteran gun crew might be able to prepare a volley like that if they had plenty time to prepare and knew exactly what and where their target was.

In what way does this require specialized equipment?

It requires two-piece ammunition where the payload and the propellant are separate components, letting you vary the amount of propellant to use. That was done on world war 1 howitzers. Then you just have to have a table of flight times for different propellant loads and angles of fire.

I remember doing this in a game once and surprising my opponent, by having artillery target two different map sheet thresholds so that one shot had a 2 turn flight time and the next had a 1 turn flight time, so they impacted at about the same time near the same spot. Made it look like i had more artillery.

[r0sshk]

In what way does this require specialized equipment?

It requires two-piece ammunition where the payload and the propellant are separate components, letting you vary the amount of propellant to use. That was done on world war 1 howitzers. Then you just have to have a table of flight times for different propellant loads and angles of fire.

I remember doing this in a game once and surprising my opponent, by having artillery target two different map sheet thresholds so that one shot had a 2 turn flight time and the next had a 1 turn flight time, so they impacted at about the same time near the same spot. Made it look like i had more artillery.

They didn't have a single gun drop two shots at the same time with WW1 howitzers. They did organize several different guns with different ranges in different positions to fire at different times and strike the enemy at the same time (accounting for different travel times and muzzle velocities by having the watches of the gun crews synchronized to the second and telling them exactly when to fire), but never from the same cannon. That wasn't technically feasible until the 60s or 70s. I think. My memory might be off a little, correct me if I'm wrong.

But even then, those guns were specially built for this exact ability. With pre-measured propellant loads, high rate of fire and special targeting computers. Normal propellant charges just don't allow for the precision required for these shots, especially if you're picking targets for them on the fly.
Again, as I said, if you have some veteran gunners with time at their hands who know exactly how far their target is gonna be, that might be a different matter.

The thing you mentioned might be the exception, of course. Propellants used for different distances in general, and striking at a target that is moving in the sweet-spot covered by both charges. Requires your target to be in that sweet-spot, however.

[idea weenie]

Which requires specialized equipment that does not appear to exist in the Battletech Universe.

Though granted, I guess a veteran gun crew might be able to prepare a volley like that if they had plenty time to prepare and knew exactly what and where their target was.

BT artillery already allows for artillery guns at different distances from the target hex to have their shells take different flight times, with no change to the shots per ton.  IIRC the flight time is 1 turn for every 2 mapsheets of range, so if a Long Tom is 20 mapsheets away, the shell will take 10 turns to arrive.  If that same Long Tom is 4 mapsheets away, the shell will take 2 turns to arrive.  No notes about needing to change the ammunition, just fire and hope it lands near.

As for specialized equipment, we use it today with mortars.  Adjust the angle, adjust the number of 'augmentation charges' added per shot, and you can get different muzzle velocities.  Different velocities at different angles when done right mean multiple shots landing at nearly the same time.

Now if the shells are fixed charges, then the distance is determined solely by gun angle.  You can get a second shot by angling the gun closer to vertical, but that will take 10 turns to arrive, and the lower angle will take the 1 turn per 2 map sheets flight time.

For sweet spot of multiple charges, check the ranges chart for the British 81mm L16 mortar.  If a target is 1700 meters away, there are 5 charges that allow a shot to be dropped on the target, allowing for changing the firing angle and making sure the math is right.

So we'd need a message from the mods to determine if adjusting the firing charge is allowed for artillery (similar to adjusting the number of bags for the 16" guns on the Iowas), or if the cartridge is a single unit.


But that is an interesting idea for Arrow IV though.  Have the missiles circle the battlefield, then on turn Y all the missiles in orbit (plus the one arriving that turn) look for the TAG light (or the target hex).

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Munitions in Battletech aren't nearly that smart.

[jh316]

Munitions in Battletech aren't nearly that smart.

Swarm-I seems pretty smart.

[Weirdo]

If Swarm-Is were in any way smart, they wouldn't go after friendly units at all.

(I know that's for balance reasons, but calling Swarm-Is smart is like praising the intelligence of a person who has learned to close his eyes before walking into the wall, when everyone else uses the doorway.)