What Was the "Clan Plan" Once They Conquered the Inner Sphere?

[Dayton3]

The Clan that got Terra was supposed to become the "IClan"  IIRC.   But would they have occupied Terra or had a whole occupation zone around Terra making it a rebirth of the Terran Hegemony and would the other clans have then fought to carve out occupation zones of their own across the Inner Sphere much like they had in the Pentagon worlds and later in the zones after the stalled invasion.

Or was Terra going to become like Strana Mechy?   Technically a neutral world with the IClan then having a surrounding zone.

Maybe I've missed something but it seems something somewhat important that would've been stated in detail somewhere.

At any rate it seems that the Clan invasion would've involved staggering devastation (and probably continuing for centuries) much like a technically upgraded version of the Third Succession War.

[soshi]

reform the SLDF, remove the corrupt house lords and their evil taint,  freeing the masses from what the clans would call slavery and evil oppression of the house lords, to become bondsmen of the clans (they don't view bondsmen as slaves for some reason).  The clans would become the military and political advisers    of the new SL. 

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

  There was no plan. There were plenty of flawed expectations, as the Clans discovered on the occupied worlds -The IS wasn't just going to accept conquest according to Clan rules and even the Clans had to play the occupation by ear, with varied results.
  BTW, capturing Terra would not equal conquering the Inner Sphere. The Clans barely had the assets to expand beyond the narrow invasion corridor and wouldn't have near enough to finish off the Lyrans and the Combine or the untouched Houses; Davion, Marik and Liao, despite their internal problems.

  What could change the paradigm is if the Clans conquered Terra and got their hands on actual Star League records that would destroy the Clan mythos of the Star League and its purpose, which was the very opposite of Clan doctrine of conquering the Houses, but working with them as equal members. Heads would explode.

[Caedis Animus]

Things would get ugly really, really fast when the Clans discovered that... I don't see them accepting said fate.

[marauder648]

They barely had a working plan of invasion, remember that it wasn't some joint effort it was a huge race with each Clan competing it was also an impossible race they never could win.

Some of the Clans (Mainly crusader ones) seem to have almost belived that as soon as one of them grabbed Terra that the rest of the IS would go "Oh jeeze...okay...yeah you're awesome and we surrender utterly to your might."   Of course this would NOT happen, they'd have to batter the Houses into surrender and they were grossly outnumbered, the Clans simply could never win. 

[Lone Star]

I don't remember seeing any long term planning outside of delusions of grandeur. It was all a race to Terra in order to see who could declare themselves illClan under the rules and establish their right to lead the clans. In truth? I do not think any clan would have submitted to another. They would have been fighting over Terra until they were all ruined or changed into something else. Kind of like what has happened even without a winner claiming Terra. Bunch of sophisticated street gangs.

[pheonixstorm]

Conquer Terra and expect the Houses to bow down to clan rule. The problem? Either ALL clans would have to be called in by the IlClan to attempt subjugation or the IS clans would soon discover how flawed they had become in their thinking of the old SL that it may have been easier for the Houses to beat them back and possibly out of the IS.

Having thought about this alot oh so long ago (and with the destruction so few clans wrought) it really WOULD take all of the clans to defeat the IS, but even then they would only be able to take at most 75-80% of the DC (Davion would have sent the entire DMM as a co-run peacekeeping force to maintain the DC-Clan buffer) while a large hole would have been carved out of the LC side of the FC. Marik might have lost 20% of its worlds near Terra while Laio (in its much much reduced size) would be largely untouched.

At any rate, had the clans not been so pompous and arrogant about their plan of attack they also forgot about long term garrisons. The more planets they gobble up the more forces would be required to hold those worlds. Something the IS has grown very very good at. Why throw away a good frontline unitwhen you can reclaim it once the greenhorn garrison forces are moved in.

Anyway.. I've run off topci due to lack of sleep.. sorry for the rambling.

[cavalier1645]

In Theory
The Clan that succeeded in taking Terra would become the IlClan and become the ruling clan of the clans. Then that Clan would would reestablish a Star League built on clan lines with essentially the IlClan become the new House Cameron. Then the Clans would encourage (aka force) the Great House and the Periphery into the new Star League and boom new golden age of man.

In really
Not going to happen. Because of all the reason stated before (no need to repeat them :) ). The Clan system was flawed. It was a system created by warriors for warriors. It failed to grasp the necessity of other factors beyond war and glory. It was doomed to failure or change into something more to survive.

[pheonixstorm]

Well, we know from the fluff that the most able to adapt to that reallity would be the Ghost Bears. The others... not so much.

[Jal Phoenix]

Leo Showers' proposal literally looked like this:

Invade Inner Sphere
Conquer Terra
Declare ilClan
????
Profit!

[Sir Chaos]

Leo Showers' proposal literally looked like this:

Invade Inner Sphere
Conquer Terra
Declare ilClan
????
Profit! Eternal Glory for Crusaders (in the name of Kerensky, of course)!

Fixed it for you.

[Jayof9s]

It is also important to note that the Clans were under the impression the IS was a lot weaker than in reality. If the situation was more in line with their expectations they likely could have raced to Terra, captured it, and then worried about subjugating the rest of the IS once they've reestablished the Star League. Which I believe was the plan.

Were they deluded? Yes. Between the massive underestimation of the IS military strength and skill and because as people have stated, it's questionable if any of the Clans would have actually accepted another as the IlClan. I think the chance of acceptance was a little higher in 3050 than it was by the 3080s and definitely by the 3140s - since I don't think there's any chance of acceptance 30 years later and definitely not 90+ but it's still a good point.

Now, assuming a slightly less arrogant and deluded Clan grand council, maybe if they'd come in full force with every Clan attacking they could have succeeded.The IS was pretty overwhelmed with just 4 invading clans, add significantly more force and potentially more parts of the IS, I could imagine a significant number of worlds AND units falling before the IS ever had a chance to reorganize or being to increase production of the better tech they needed to upgrade their units.

[pheonixstorm]

Again though the problem becomes one of garrison forces. I doubt even with all clans they would have enough second line troops to handle THAT many worlds.

[cavalier1645]

Again though the problem becomes one of garrison forces. I doubt even with all clans they would have enough second line troops to handle THAT many worlds.

Agreed. Even given the Battletech Sheepol factor (Where the majority of the populations of worlds don't care whos in charge) The Clans would be plagued with Insurgency. Just look the mess they had with Combine worlds in the canon.

[solmanian]

Well either the other clans would simply be absorbed, with the ilClan "winning" the grand game of clan culture. More likely they'll at best be like new march lords, at worst integrated military commands of the new Star league like the SLF corps or Avalon Hussars.

reform the SLDF, remove the corrupt house lords and their evil taint,  freeing the masses from what the clans would call slavery and evil oppression of the house lords, to become bondsmen of the clans (they don't view bondsmen as slaves for some reason).  The clans would become the military and political advisers    of the new SL. 

Well, the clans would mostly let them keep doing what they're already doing. Merely rebranding them. Farmers would be "laborers", law enforcement forces that capitulated would be folded into the Watch. The worthy candidates of the IS armies, would be allowed a chance into the Touman as second line troops, garrisoning the worlds they once protected.

What could change the paradigm is if the Clans conquered Terra and got their hands on actual Star League records that would destroy the Clan mythos of the Star League and its purpose, which was the very opposite of Clan doctrine of conquering the Houses, but working with them as equal members. Heads would explode.

That's a fallacy. The clans didn't need to find records about how the star league worked. Their records were far superior and complete than those in the IS, which is why post-invasion IS scholars would turn to clan loremasters to clear out the mess. The clan had a clearer view of the star league, for all her faults; it wasn't tinted with myths about a magical fairytale about how everyone worked together and universal peace. They're not nostalgic about the SL, they've judged it flawed and wants to build a new SL based on the clan system.

The clans definitely had the muscle to dominate interstellar travel. They theoretically could smash the battlemech forces of the IS. Garrisoning thousands of planet would've been a problem. But look at the clan OZs, especially in the DA. they seem to be handling themselves well. Now imagine instead of 4-6 clans, there are three times as much. They would've no problem dominating the majority of the IS, especially under the authority of the ilclan stopping them from fighting each other and stumbling on their toes.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

That's a fallacy.

  All of Clan society was based on worshiping a mythical, sanitized version of the Star League, so much that Clanners believed that they were the Star League and that their misguided crusade was all about restoring something that never existed in the first place, not imposing a revised version of the Star League.
  The Clans knew nothing of the real Star League, if they had, they would have tossed their deification of Kerensky as he had a significant hand in the League's downfall. The Clans may have had good records of the Star League but the sources indicate that the information was never common knowledge, if it wasn't purposefully hidden as the Clans were based on Nicholas' skewed, self-serving version of reality, not Alexander's.

[Dayton3]

An observation and a follow up question:

1) It seems that the Clans didn't have a clue about how to garrison a captured world.   In the Mercenary Handbook one of their occupation forces was over powered by a SINGLE COMPANY (you know 12) mercenary mechs.    The Clan in question had to send back in first line troops.

Imagine if the IS forces started hiding whole battalions or even regiments on captured worlds. 

2) What were the Wardens long term plans?   Seems they had a vague idea about "protecting the Inner Sphere".   Were their plans from the beginning to protect the Inner Sphere from the Crusader Clans or did they have other potential threats in mind?   

[jklantern]

An observation and a follow up question:

1) It seems that the Clans didn't have a clue about how to garrison a captured world.   In the Mercenary Handbook one of their occupation forces was over powered by a SINGLE COMPANY (you know 12) mercenary mechs.    The Clan in question had to send back in first line troops.

Imagine if the IS forces started hiding whole battalions or even regiments on captured worlds. 

2) What were the Wardens long term plans?   Seems they had a vague idea about "protecting the Inner Sphere".   Were their plans from the beginning to protect the Inner Sphere from the Crusader Clans or did they have other potential threats in mind?   

Basically, it was a combination of "Protect the Inner Sphere from themselves" and "Protect the Inner Sphere from whatever the Hell else is out there."

[I am Belch II]

I've always wanted to know this also.

[rebs]

The Clan that got Terra was supposed to become the "IClan"  IIRC.   But would they have occupied Terra or had a whole occupation zone around Terra making it a rebirth of the Terran Hegemony and would the other clans have then fought to carve out occupation zones of their own across the Inner Sphere much like they had in the Pentagon worlds and later in the zones after the stalled invasion.

Or was Terra going to become like Strana Mechy?   Technically a neutral world with the IClan then having a surrounding zone.

Maybe I've missed something but it seems something somewhat important that would've been stated in detail somewhere.

At any rate it seems that the Clan invasion would've involved staggering devastation (and probably continuing for centuries) much like a technically upgraded version of the Third Succession War.

The problem right out of the gate was that every Clan had their own vision of what was going to happen.  That is what the novels and sourcebooks have to say about it in every way.  Even kind of overtly.

[jklantern]

The problem right out of the gate was that every Clan had their own vision of what was going to happen.  That is what the novels and sourcebooks have to say about it in every way.  Even kind of overtly.

"WE ARE HEADED TO THE INNER SPHERE, WHERE THE STREETS ARE PAVED WITH CHOCOLATE AND THERE ARE BAR FIGHTS ON EVERY CORNER."

[Lone Star]

"WE ARE HEADED TO THE INNER SPHERE, WHERE THE STREETS ARE PAVED WITH CHOCOLATE AND THERE ARE BAR FIGHTS ON EVERY CORNER."

I thought it was something like double food rations and no toilet paper lines?

[jklantern]

I thought it was something like double food rations and no toilet paper lines?

Clearly, you are in the Laborer Caste.   ;)

[rebs]

"WE ARE HEADED TO THE INNER SPHERE, WHERE THE STREETS ARE PAVED WITH CHOCOLATE AND THERE ARE BAR FIGHTS ON EVERY CORNER."

That's the Smoke Jaguar vision, no doubt.

We know the basic Jade Falcon vision.  It often gets ascribed as the motive of all Clans.  And they did manage to make the Wolves have to care.  Even the Wolves cannot deny that.

So here's Ghost Bear vision:
"WE JOURNEY ACROSS THE SEA OF STARS TO THE INNER SPHERE, WHERE WE WILL BECOME GUARDIANS OF BIFROST, AND MEAD WILL FLOW LIKE RIVERS."

[jklantern]

That's the Smoke Jaguar vision, no doubt.

We know the basic Jade Falcon vision.  It often gets ascribed as the motive of all Clans.  And they did manage to make the Wolves have to care.  Even the Wolves cannot deny that.

So here's Ghost Bear vision:
"WE JOURNEY ACROSS THE SEA OF STARS TO THE INNER SPHERE, WHERE WE WILL BECOME GUARDIANS OF BIFROST, AND MEAD WILL FLOW LIKE RIVERS."

I believe the Diamond Shark vision of the Inner Sphere is:

"What's mine is mine and mine and mine.

And mine and mine and mine!

Not yours!"

And I believe the Hell's Horses vision was:

"WE'RE FREE!  WE'RE FREE!  LET'S GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!"

[massey]

The Clans had good records of what the Star League was like.  Like a lot of people, they were willing to overlook historical figures' personal faults and let them continue to be legends.  It didn't matter to them if Alexander Kerensky wasn't an angel.  He's their hero.  They've already made peace with whatever failings he had.

As I understand it, the entire purpose of seizing Terra was simply to declare a winner amongst the Clans.  They weren't worried about the Inner Sphere militarily.  The last time Wolf's Dragoons gave the non-Wolf clans good intel on the abilities of the IS, they were at the tail end of the 3rd Succession War.  Most of the early waves on the Invasion were really really easy.  The Clans were not worried about the Inner Sphere.  They were worried about not getting to Terra first.  The ilClan was gonna get to call the shots.

But the plan, after somebody takes Terra, was basically for all the other Clans to return to the Inner Sphere and carve out their own territories.  It doesn't really matter if you have Clan troops on every single IS world.  Let two or three Clans attack House Davion, let one attack Liao, let two attack Marik.  Let the rest attack wherever they want.  The Great Houses would have been smashed.  They can absorb the small pieces when they feel like it.  Jaime Wolf wasn't laughing about the threat the Clans presented.

[ActionButler]

I believe the Diamond Shark vision of the Inner Sphere is:

"What's mine is mine and mine and mine.

And mine and mine and mine!

Not yours!"

And I believe the Hell's Horses vision was:

"WE'RE FREE!  WE'RE FREE!  LET'S GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!"

And then there was the Steel Viper's vision of, "First we're gonna fight those guys, then we're gonna fight those guys, we're gonna fight those guys next, and we're gonna fight those guys over there after that".

[jklantern]

And then there was the Steel Viper's vision of, "First we're gonna fight those guys, then we're gonna fight those guys, we're gonna fight those guys next, and we're gonna fight those guys over there after that".

Is it sad that of the original Tukayyid Seven, the Vipers are my third favorite?

[rebs]

Nope.  Too tertiary to make this a sad thing.  Instead, rejoice!  The Vipers had fans after all.

[haesslich]

Nope.  Too tertiary to make this a sad thing.  Instead, rejoice!  The Vipers had fans after all.

They weren't Jaguars. They were okay, right up till Brett Andrews took over. Even Dawn Moffat was amusing.