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1

The Periphery / Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

« Last post by tassa_kay on Today at 07:56:10 »

This is not correct.
FM: Updates has an entry for them in the Random Assignment Table (page 218) and they developed the SATYR-XP typus.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

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Aerospace Combat / Re: Canon Warship List

« Last post by Wrangler on Today at 07:55:44 »

I knew i wasn't crazy, my word search in the PDF didn't work for me.  Being in a newer publication, I'd hope it open a door for couple additional designs given how Large Aersospace is still touch subject with some players and rules being in questioned.

Warspite Class Warships never got stats from the Republic of the Sphere, aside from their Yardships, entire fleet seemed to have not been salvageable or they were forcibly forgotten.

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The Periphery / Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

« Last post by Gaiiten on Today at 07:54:56 »

The Nova Cats never used Protos. They were Abjured from the Homeworlds before the other Clans started getting their hands on Proto technology.

This is not correct.
FM: Updates has an entry for them in the Random Assignment Table (page 218) and they developed the SATYR-XP typus.

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General BattleTech Discussion / Re: Red Hunter 3146 model (From Legends II)

« Last post by Aotrs Commander on Today at 07:52:07 »

You can always use the different guns just to tell them apart.  I'm Guessing you've been told before, that BT is NOT a "What You See Is What You Get" game like WH40K.   

Not the point. Providing two gun turrets and zero explanation as to what they are even intended to be is just unhelpful, to both people how know nothing about BattleTech and hell, even people that DO. Frankly, I think it would have been better to just have not bothered with making the guns seperate[1] (since BT is explicitly not Wysiwyg) and just having the one gun in place like on the other marauders, than to provide alternatives with no explanation. (The artwork on the cards provided is angled such that it's impossible to tell what the art on the cards is.)

If the ultimate answer is "it really doesn't matter" then why bother with the option, which requires more faffing about and assembly than just having a one-piece model?

The fact that two guns are provided by itself suggests some expectation, however, that some semblence of wysiwyg is intended because they've given you the option. But not told you what the option is supposed to be.

It either doesn't matter (so have a more coveniant single-piece model) or it does - volentarily, for people who want to engage with that (so illustrate the options). Picking the unhelpful middle as they have done serves neither end.

To some extent, same applies to the Hamato-Chi, and Sneed Rifelman (and obviously very much the other legends II maruader), too, for that matter. It's alright having these alternate parts, but there's some assumptions being made that apparently we will intuitively know why they're included and what they're for. But if even I am struggling the interpret the thinking (I am not exactly unfamiliar with BatteTech...) and having to go to Sarna (and look at other models that I own - which other people may not), suggests that it is very much not as inituative as that assumption.

The most baffling part is how relatively easily most of this could have been avoided, without the extra cost of that extra scrap of paper, just by orientating the artwork on the cards to much more of a side-view so the dorsal gun was more vibile in profile.



[1]It's not like the fit is good enough to have them actively swappable, unlike (most of) the jumping plumes for the jumping mechs or the SRM/LRM turrets - I was a bit surprised that they weren't, honestly, given that it is demonstrably quite possible to do, but they were far too loose.

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The Periphery / Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

« Last post by Lore on Today at 07:51:59 »

And I can name several militaries in Battletech who do have issue with it because of the same waste-not-want-not values such as Ghost Bears, Wolves, Jade Falcons, Smoke Jaguars, Nova Cats or Sea Foxes

Care to guess what all those militaries have in common?

What exactly are you trying to prove here?

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MechWarrior Hall / Re: Word Association 36: SAY WHAT AGAIN!!!

« Last post by Wrangler on Today at 07:50:52 »

pooch

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The Periphery / Re: The Scorpion Empire: All your Warhawks are belong to us

« Last post by tassa_kay on Today at 07:35:48 »

Lot to unpack here.

And perhaps they would have not been annihilated had they not used inferior platforms

This is so patently untrue that I won't even bother.

And neither do they fit with Scorpions

Based on what criteria? Actual criteria, not your personal opinion. What are the characteristics of the Scorpions that would preclude ProtoMechs from being a fit for them?

They did at first and later they ditched them because they didn't fit with their faction

No, they ditched them because their current writer personally dislikes them. (And again, this is not my opinion, this is something that said writer has said on these forums, and I believe in this very thread.)

Even when they did have them the whole project was second fiddle to Undine battle armor (a battle armor!)

Also untrue. The Undine was already in production by the time the Scorpions started designing their own Protos.

Jade Falcons also did buy in at first and later they ditched them because they were inferior platforms and because they didn't fit with their faction

That's not quite accurate. The Erinyes was a poorly-designed platform (and intentionally so, by the Society), and that's why the Falcons chose not to move forward with them.

Nova Cats did too... and then they didn't just like Falcons and Scorpions

The Nova Cats never used Protos. They were Abjured from the Homeworlds before the other Clans started getting their hands on Proto technology.

I was incorrect here. Leaving it in since I can admit when I’m wrong.

I have no clue why some people insist on having Scorpions of all factions being saddled with protomechs

Because we like them. It's not complicated.

with lore that makes zero sense in-universe

Just because you don't like the lore doesn't mean it makes no sense.

and which resoundingly fail at doing the very thing they were supposedly created to do

I have a feeling that you've never actually used Protos at the gaming table, because if you had, you'd know this isn't the case.

And I can name several militaries in Battletech who do have issue with it because of the same waste-not-want-not values such as Ghost Bears, Wolves, Jade Falcons, Smoke Jaguars, Nova Cats or Sea Foxes

Care to guess what all those militaries have in common?

The fact that these other Clans aren't using Protos (which isn't solely attributed to what you're claiming; many don't use them because of the Society's connection to them, others don't use them because, again, TPTB have deemed it so arbitrarily) doesn't detract from the fact that the Clans that do use them have gotten enough mileage out of them that they've not only made their own designs, but they've innovated with them: ultraheavies, quads, gliders, new ProtoMech equipment, even a new Phenotype in some cases.

Can you maybe come back with some actual facts and references? Your personal opinions aren't really something worth debating here. You don't like them, and have made that very clear. And it's ironic to me that, for someone who loves to tell people on these forums "read the books/Sarna" at every opportunity, you haven't actually read them yourself, because most of the above is simply not substantiated in the source material. I'm happy to have a civil debate with you (insofar as much as you refrain from the condescension and personal attacks), but I have no interest in debating personal opinions, I want to debate actual facts. If you can't do that, I'm just going to ignore and/or block you again. Fair enough?

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General BattleTech Discussion / Re: Is there any point to Inner Sphere pulse lasers?

« Last post by Apocal on Today at 07:20:28 »

If you want to know how effective Inner Sphere pulse lasers are, I suggest you start playing on more built-up maps, with fast jumpers, or both. Even with improved gunnery skill, the difference a -2 to hit makes at range 1-2 is worth it, and if the terrain blocks LOS, it doesn't matter how much range you are potentially losing - at 2 hexes the IS Large Pulse Laser outperforms PPCs.

If anything, this makes them sound less effective than they actually are.

When you start having to pigeonhole a weapon into a particular type of map and/or against a particular type of enemy for it to show its value, that opens the door to people comparing other weapons on those same merits. For every map that's built-up enough to anticipate 1 hex engagements on the regular, there are three or four, or more, that are relatively open with lines of sight that reach 12 hexes.

But beyond that, against a fast jumper straight-up more rolls is generally better, even against pulse's -2 to-hit.

If you're at 1-hex against a jumper, let's say you're hitting on 10 (4 gunnery, 2 for attacker movement, 4 TMM), a pulse hits on 8, great. But what about two ERMLs? On 10s, they have a ~16% chance to hit at least once. Better than the pulse rolling on 8 (~14%), plus the chance for both to land. Not a great chance, mind you, but it exists. How about two 11s vs one 9? Pulse barely edges ahead, 10.8% vs. 11.1%.

The case where pulse weapons at 1 hex range outdo simply having more rolls is a situation where someone can keep their TN at 12 or higher consistently. In which case get a new opponent because it is a busted way of playing BT (fast jumpers pushing TNs higher than their opponent can handle) and has been known for at least as long as I've been playing MegaMek (like 2005).

Fortunately, they have other benefits, like being compact in an era where crit slots are limited, lower heat and higher damage than their ER equivalents for mediums and larges, being a legitimately good pick for anti-infantry work with SPLs on their own merits.

9

Aerospace Combat / Re: Canon Warship List

« Last post by Alan Grant on Today at 07:16:59 »

Hey I found a reference. Liberation of Terra volume 1, page 115. I did a search for "combine battleships" in the PDF and landed a hit.

It's basically a paragraph talking about the SLDF beginning to experience defections of House troops to the SLDF after the Amaris Coup. Kerensky begins a press campaign for support. Thousands of AWOL House soldiers begin to show up at SLDF bases every week. The relevant sentence is just after that.

Quote: "A few nearly whole companies and battalions managed to defect,
as did numerous DropShips and even a pair of WarShips—both
Combine battleships."

On the next page it says Kerensky targeted some of the Combine's depots, seizing what it needed for war materials. The Coordinator publicly blasted Kerensky for doing this. But a persistent rumor is that it secretly happened with the Coordinator's blessing, and the same might be true of the 2 defecting warships.

So there ya go, and that's a pretty modern book and not one of the old ones.

Field Report 2765 DCMS has a good breakdown of the Combine warship fleet just prior to the Amaris Coup. No battleships are mentioned among the active fleet and it just specifically references Samarkand carriers as the core of each fleet and that the majority of the fleet's  hulls are destroyers or corvette classes with a few cruisers. Though within the book you do see a potential clue in a section labeled "Infrastructural Assessment". It says that the Combine has had a limited capacity to build and maintain warships. As a result after the Reunification War it was forced to mothball a number of its warships. But there are signs that the Combine is refurbishing a number of those warships. Due to security at those sites, details aren't known.

So some obscure BB class of Combine design we've never gotten the details on remains a possibility. Though sheer odds of probability at this point tell me we're most likely talking about hulls of Terran Hegemony/Star League origin, possibly dating back to the Reunification War, that the Combine stuffed into mothball reserves.

That makes a lot of sense to me, in part because I think it would be difficult to defect with a fully functioning and crewed warship that is part of the active DCA fleet. A couple of mothball hulls sitting in a repair yard somewhere and a partial crew (and corresponding, lesser security around it compared to an active warship), feels more realistic to me. Even if it happened with the Coordinator's quiet blessing.

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Challenges and Gatherings / Re: BattleTech Long Island IV

« Last post by eilidhdawn on Today at 07:02:32 »

The city of Hilo serves as host to the headquarters of the Sugai Zaibatsu {wealthy clique, global conglomerate} {the corporate entity under which all the business of the Sugai Dai Ichizoku is conducted} and many of its business entities (heavy industry, construction, athletic teams, sporting goods, defense, property management, agriculture etc.) are located in the city. Their central offices are located in a just over one hundred meter tall curved horseshoe appearing high rise in the Civic Center ward of Hilo, the Tsukinoko {arc of the moon}. The design of the tower is based on the idea of unity and infinity and at night the ring, which is actually a complete oval that continues underground, is reflected in the pond surrounding the building (accessed by a few pedestrian bridges), and looks like a full moon glow. The facade of the building is covered in layers of white aluminum rings and fine textured glass producing the illusion and drama of the building. Its designer Ma Yangsong stated that the shape is inspired by traditional bridges represented in ancient chinese paintings and the search for a harmonious relationship with nature, an important part of Nejiroan culture and tradition. The circular building reflected in the pond creates  a surreal picture, a connection between the real and the spooky. Under the sunlight and the reflection of the water the curved shape of the building is crystal clear and when night falls the whole building glows. The soft light wraps around the water and the building and the result resembles the bright moon rising over the water, a classical and modern mixture through reflection. The public lobby is richly decorated with different types of jade and citrine inlays, and the ceiling is covered with glass lamps forming waves of more than twenty thousand crystals while the floor is paved with tigers eye stones. The shape of the building gives shade to all its balconies and promotes natural ventilation and the ultra-white glass allows natural light in all rooms eliminating the need for artificial lighting during the day which saves energy and creates a pleasant atmosphere.
The people of Hilo are vibrant, diverse, ambitious,  restless, bold, pulsing with energy, cosmopolitan, driven, passionate, cultured, and talented. The city is in constant motion with a vibrant nightlife and has the most twenty eight hour dining establishments and shops on Nejiro. There is always something to see, there is always something to do. It is a city of towering skyscrapers, bustling tree lined sidewalks, and cavernous subways. Approximately six million tourists are attracted to the inspiring, imaginative, eclectic, and expressive city each year. The architecture of the city is generally ultra-modern and futuristic featuring glass and steel. Many buildings are covered in trees, shrubs, and greenery to add to the city's green footprint, to lower energy costs, and to assist clean air circulation and insulation. The city squares and plazas have hundreds of automated giant parasol lamps which unfold under the heat of the sun and protect from rain. The 25-m tall umbrella structures are made of advanced composites and highly durable fabrics decorated with oriental motifs. Most buildings in the city are net zero energy buildings (using solar, wind, geothermal, hydrocell and/or hydropower energy sources) towering in fantastical shapes (curvaceous, parametrical, geometric) of sustainable and green construction technologies. Property prices generally range from seven thousand to fifteen thousand ryu per square meter. Hilo has about 58% public green space, and shade canopies both engineered (e.g. latticework, pergolas) and natural (trees, grasses) provide shade, cooling, and community spaces to relax, exercise, and socialize. There are a sizable number of urban farms, public gardens and parks, as well as wildlife sanctuaries on the rooftops of large industrial and commercial buildings contributing to food security and the cooling and calming effect of green spaces.