Author Topic: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier  (Read 1044 times)

Der Kommissar

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Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« on: 19 November 2024, 16:53:09 »
It's always struck me as kinda surprising that after we got light and heavy missile carriers, we never saw a hover platform that really dedicated itself to throwing tons of LRMs.  So I made one.  :wink:  It's pretty much exactly what it says on the tin, a plastic box filled with missiles than can move quickly enough to keep up with the mobile assets, but which really, truly does not want to see so much as a mean word thrown its way.  Let me know what you think.  :cool:

Code: [Select]
Hover LRM Carrier

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-C-C-C
Production Year: 2952
Dry Cost: 1,641,667 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,761,667 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,009

Power Plant: Desperado Multifuel 115 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Flanking Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor: Desperado Mithril Standard Armor
Armament:
    3 Delta Dart LRM-15s
Manufacturer: Desperado Defense LLC
    Primary Factory: Caldarium
Communications System: TharHes KR-A P/Com
Targeting and Tracking System: FireScan with IndirecTrack

Overview:
    Developed in the latter half of the Third Succession War, the Hover LRM
Carrier reflects the changing face of war in the Inner Sphere.  With military
actions increasingly dedicated to quick lightning raiders making use of highly
limited JumpShip and DropShip assets, many forces found themselves acutely
lacking a high-speed, high-volume fire support platform.  With the traditional
LRM Carrier better-suited to defensive use, Desperado Defense, LLC stepped into
the gap to service this lucrative need.


Capabilities:
    Based on the ancient LTV-4's chassis, the Hover LRM Carrier shares both its
hefty tonnage and now-medicore movement profile with that venerable hovertank;
a top speed of 120 km/h is well below such standbys as the Scimitar or Pegasus,
but still much quicker than the traditional LRM carrier, easily able to keep
pace with mobile elements and redeploy to avoid counter-battery fire.  The
design's narrow, top-heavy construction makes this speed somewhat challenging to
manage, and it's common to see these hovertanks slaloming and slipping in
crosswinds when moving at flank speed.  Fuel efficiency is poor due to drag,
but the Desperado Defense original carriers have a multifuel engine that will
burn anything except blocks of wood.  Simplicity is the name of the game: in
design, in implementation, and in maintenance.   
    The principle draw of the Hover LRM Carrier is naturally its firepower; 75%
of an LRM carrier's throw weight is more than enough to make any MechWarrior
blanch, and is effective by virtue of volume even when firing indirectly. 
Crews are not known for holding ammunition on reserve, well-aware that they're
sitting astride a gigantic bomb.  Because of its speed, a Hover LRM Carrier can
dart between covering terrain in order to easily retire to friendly lines to
rearm;  the 4-ton magazine is designed for quick reloading.   
    The Hover LRM Carrier features no secondary weapons, nor does it have much
in the way of protection: a mere 2.5 tons of armor give it just enough to shrug
off a dirty look, worse even than the infamously thin-skinned LRM Carrier. 
Crews who come to the attention of enemy units are advised to either focus fire
on fast-movers, or turn and flee anything slower than them, and intelligent
commanders screen these vehicles with their own fast movers.  Locust pilots and
Hover LRM Carrier crews are known to get along surprisingly well as teammates,
and Locust pilots have been known to dryly note that defending fire support
units is a much less intense duty than recon assignments.


Battle History:
    A clash between the mercenary vehicle battalion Dredd's Armored Reapers,
working in service of the Capellan Confederation and heavy elements of the
Marik Militia ended in disaster for Dredd's company-sized formation of Hover
LRM Carriers.  With a lance of Marik Militia Awesomes and Stalkers holding a
commanding hill, the hovertank company obeyed a garbled (and mistaken) order to
directly charge the assault 'mechs.  Though they did manage to temporarily
dislodge the Marik 'mechs from the hill by virtue of sheer volume of fire and
severely damage all four, three-quarters of the company were destroyed in this
ill-timed cavalry charge.


Deployment:
    Because it has been licensed to multiple manufacturers including Quikscell
and Red Devil, and due to its extremely simple design, the Hover LRM Carrier
can be found throughout the Inner Sphere and even the Periphery.  The heaviest
users were initially the Lyran Commonwealth, though mercenaries - a reliable
customer base for Desperado Defense - proved a large and reliable well of
buyers as well.  The Free Worlds League generally prefers its older Harasser
LRM tank, which is cheaper and much swifter.


Variants:
    A mercenary refit of the Hover LRM Carrier replaces one of the LRM/15 racks
and a single ton of ammunition with an LRM/10 rack fed by a single ton of
ammunition.  This decision was made in order to equip the tank with two tons of
additional armor plating, massively increasing crew survivability at a minimal
cost to firepower.  While Desperado Defense does not manufacture this variant
from the factory, they do sell easy conversion kits, maximizing profit for
minimal investment.


Additional:
Quirks: Fast Reload, Rugged (2); Unbalanced, Gas Hog


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                5.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                115                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  7
    Flank MP:   11
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            5.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  40                  2.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     16       
                                          Left/Right    8/8         
                                                Rear     8         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 LRM-15s                                    FR        15        3        21.00
@LRM-15 (32)                                 BD        -         0         4.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      1    Points: 10
7h         2       3       3       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, LRM 1/3/3, IF 3


idea weenie

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #1 on: 23 November 2024, 20:35:36 »
You are right, it is very fragile, so I'd expect that it would be preferring to perform Indirect Fire where possible.  Its high speed (7/11) means I would be using it to cross from cover to cover so enemy units never had a chance to see it, or just going at speed 11 across open terrain to maximize my TMM and increase the range to me as well.  Even then if it takes 14+ pts of damage to its rear it is gone.

You only have 10-11 shots per launcher, but from the very thin armor I'd be afraid to use it anywhere near an opponent where I could get better to-hit rolls.  As soon as this unit is seen by an enemy unit they will likely try to toss a PPC or similar high-damage shot at it to try to penetrate its thin armor.  A Gauss Rifle hit to the front will only leave 1 pt of armor remaining, while that same Gauss Rifle hit on the side or rear will take out the vehicle entirely.

I would see one of the following two modifications being requested:
1) Reduce its speed to 6/9 and put the missile launchers on a Turret so I have more freedom about approaching enemy units
2) Drop one of the existing LRM launchers (freeing up 7 tons) to install the LRM-15 launchers into a Turret (1.5 tons) and use the remaining 5.5 tons for more armor (another 88 pts of armor)


Lagrange

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #2 on: 24 November 2024, 12:23:54 »
If you switch to 9x LRM-5s you have as many tubes but you free up 3 tons to put into more tubes, more ammo, more armor, or some combination.  The design is also cheaper.

Der Kommissar

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #3 on: 24 November 2024, 13:17:44 »
Wrt. a turret, the main reason I didn't, though I generally like turreted vehicles (and I actually have some 'off-brand' LRM and SRM carriers with turrets), was because I'd end up having to sacrifice firepower, speed, protection, or some combo of the three to make it happen (even if I don't touch the armor, it de facto goes down by virtue of having more locations to protect).   6/9 is still plenty mobile for a support asset, but you're really gonna be pushing your luck with those enemy fast boys.  Dropping down one launcher a bit was what I ended up going with for a more practically-protected version, but I still wanted the 'core' variant to focus almost entirely on pure firepower.  Maybe it should be armored 10/10/10 in that configuration.

As for the suggestion to use LRM/5s, yeah, it'd be a good one, especially when you're talking about a hovertank which needs those extra tons.  Still, it's pretty dang rare to encounter a unit actually LRM optimizing (the Anubis comes to mind), and I wanted a vibe of 'disposable unit you might actually see in a TRO.'  That BV I ended up with doesn't feel very disposable, though.

Vehrec

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #4 on: 24 November 2024, 13:22:08 »
If you switch to 9x LRM-5s you have as many tubes but you free up 3 tons to put into more tubes, more ammo, more armor, or some combination.  The design is also cheaper.
I feel like abusing the LRM-5 like this is kinda abusing the poor little launcher.  Sure, you can switch any LRM using design to the smaller launchers to save cost and tonnage, but is it *really* the best choice in all situations?
*Insert support for fashionable faction of the week here*

Daryk

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #5 on: 24 November 2024, 14:53:03 »
Only the situations where cost and tonnage predominate... ;)

garhkal

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #6 on: 24 November 2024, 15:06:46 »
I love lrm-5s..  BUT i also love the 15 pack too!
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

DevianID

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #7 on: 24 November 2024, 19:36:18 »
You can also do an LRM20 version with 2 LRM20s, for a 2/3rd LRM carrier.  The ton difference can go to armor or ammo, and LRM20s can be used to clear mines so it has a bit more utility if less firepower.

Daryk

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #8 on: 24 November 2024, 19:39:55 »
More useful and slightly cheaper... nice! :)

Lagrange

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #9 on: 24 November 2024, 19:47:17 »
I feel like abusing the LRM-5 like this is kinda abusing the poor little launcher.  Sure, you can switch any LRM using design to the smaller launchers to save cost and tonnage, but is it *really* the best choice in all situations?
Only the situations where cost and tonnage predominate... ;)
In situations where heat and critical spaces matter an LRM-15 might indeed be preferred.  For example, if you are paying for heat with IS double heat sinks 3x LRM-5 requires 12 critical spaces and 9 tons + ammo while the LRM-15 requires 10.5 critical spaces and 9.5 tons + ammo. 

Daryk

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #10 on: 24 November 2024, 20:02:27 »
Things are a little different for vehicles, but fair point otherwise.

EPG

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #11 on: 24 November 2024, 20:36:08 »
A vehicle that should exist in the Battletech universe. 

I can see a ‘standard’ loadout ammo wise saving one ton of ammo for smoke to obscure the LRM hover carrier and/or provide cover for its fire support missions.  In the lrm 15/15/10 version the 10 would probably always get the smoke. 

Smoke rounds are far more useful for a high speed LRM carrier than a slow one. 

Der Kommissar

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #12 on: 24 November 2024, 22:03:48 »
That was exactly my thought, too, on both counts.  It does cut into your actual lethal throwing endurance, but seeing as even the uparmored version is pretty thin-skinned, sticking around overlong on the battlefield is a bad idea, especially if you're regularly throwing 30-45 LRMs on targets to remind them of what a sweetheart you are.  Shoot your shot, get outta dodge.

Hellraiser

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #13 on: 03 December 2024, 15:04:36 »
Code: [Select]
Hover LRM Carrier
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                5.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                115                       8.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            5.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  40                  2.50
================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 LRM-15s                                    FR        15        3        21.00
@LRM-15 (32)                                 BD        -         0         4.00

I think I'd do that swap to Twin-20's & drop 1 ton of ammo to give you a Turret.
A Hover LRM is just begging for a turret.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Der Kommissar

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #14 on: 04 December 2024, 17:27:04 »
Because the armor is so miserably thin, a turreted version would probably either be filled with LRM/5s instead of the bigger launchers, or else drop down even further to a couple of LRM/15s.  That gets you fully 5 tons for LRM ammo, so you can feel more than comfortable bringing specialty ammo without compromising your killing power at all.  You can bump armor to 5.5 tons, which is reasonably stout, and cram a vehicle flamer to set fires behind you as you retreat.  At that point though it's an entirely different tank.  Not really a 'carrier' any more in terms of throw weight or other features.

Hellraiser

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #15 on: 04 December 2024, 18:02:30 »
Because the armor is so miserably thin, a turreted version would probably either be filled with LRM/5s instead of the bigger launchers, or else drop down even further to a couple of LRM/15s.  That gets you fully 5 tons for LRM ammo, so you can feel more than comfortable bringing specialty ammo without compromising your killing power at all.  You can bump armor to 5.5 tons, which is reasonably stout, and cram a vehicle flamer to set fires behind you as you retreat.  At that point though it's an entirely different tank.  Not really a 'carrier' any more in terms of throw weight or other features.

See, I'm on the opposite side of this. 
Carriers aren't Tanks.  They generally lack armor & ammo.
Thin Armor?  Its a half ton less than standard carriers at 10 tons smaller chassis.  I'd say it fits right into the norm.
Also, a Hover is just asking to get Mobility Killed before breaching the Armor.
They need to get in, deliver a couple tons of ammo on the enemy, and then get out.
The baseline Missile Carriers had 4 tons of ammo. 
I don't see any reason to have more than that & with less total missiles, I'm fine w/ 3 tons max.
Specialty ammo?  It's an Introtech design from the 3rd SW.  Is there some out there?  Sure, but not much.
Heck, I'd go so far as to say 2 tons Ammo & 1 more ton of Armor.  That covers the 5th location of Turret.
As Devian noted, you need LRM20 to clear mines & it's the only single launcher w/ the potential to force a PSR even if it is on an 11+.
They way I see your design is essentially a "Rocket Launcher Carrier" only w/o the OS Rockets.
But it's the same concept, approach, strike, skirt edges, strike, repeat,  and go home to reload.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Der Kommissar

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #16 on: 04 December 2024, 18:48:46 »
Adding a turret de facto reduces your armor further, though, because you have more sections to spread it over.  For me, at least, I want to account for that in the overall protection tonnage.  And yeah, most tanks are going to be mobility killed before they're kill-killed, but it's not my inclination to make it any easier for the other guy than it needs to be for the vehicle's mission profile.

And yes, granted, you're not getting a lot of specialty ammo in 3025 and earlier - except smoke, that is, and on a highly mobile platform it's actually worth having.

Daryk

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #17 on: 04 December 2024, 19:27:34 »
For a little less, I can fit a 20 rack for mine clearance, two LRM-5s for Smoke (or regular damage), and 2 MGs to keep those pesky infantry away, while carrying enough armor to absorb a Hetzer ambush... ;)
Code: [Select]
LRM+ Hover Carrier

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/D-D-D-C
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 1,326,667 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,462,167 C-Bills
Battle Value: 933

Power Plant:  115 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 75.6 km/h
Flanking Speed: 118.8 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  LRM-20
    2  LRM-5s
    2  Machine Guns
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                5.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                115                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  7
    Flank MP:   11
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            5.00
Turret:                                                                    1.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 104                  6.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     21       
                                          Left/Right   21/21       
                                              Turret     21       
                                                Rear     20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-20                                       T         6         1        10.00
2 LRM-5s                                     T         4         2         4.00
2 Machine Guns                               T         0         2         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50
@LRM-20 (12)                                 BD        -         0         2.00
@LRM-5 (Smoke) (24)                          BD        -         0         1.00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 9
7h         2       2       2       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/2, LRM 1/2/2, IF 1/2/2), LRM 1/2/2, IF 2

Valles

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #18 on: 05 December 2024, 11:33:12 »
Question.

Is the Hover LRM Carrier envisioned primarily as firing on the advance, or from fixed positions? When it's working as intended, I mean, not running away from a Locust, screaming.

Because if it's intended to be firing from a hide or what have you... Why not mount the LRMs firing aft? Much better for the screaming part.

Der Kommissar

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #19 on: 05 December 2024, 11:58:51 »
From cover when possible, but to help its attached unit advance by default.

Valles

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Re: Lots of LRMs, on the Double! - The Hover LRM Carrier
« Reply #20 on: 05 December 2024, 18:08:17 »
Yeah, front mount them then.