Author Topic: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat  (Read 1188 times)

Syzyx

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 684
Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« on: 25 November 2024, 11:22:31 »
The main theme:
Back in the days of the Star League we had an entire social stratum of people who had the kind of money that they didn't need fusion reactors. They would just shovel the stuff into old-fashioned steam boilers to generate their heat and electricity. In the interest of saving so many innocent Star League Dollar bills from the furnace, an enterprising space construction firm decided to build these people an elite space station vacation home. Not just your run of the mill space station, though, oh no, but one with every luxury at every point of development. And customizable! Because it needs to accommodate people who can have planets terraformed to be ready for their great-grandchildren's 16th birthday.

My problem:
I am not a civil engineer, nor particularly skilled at designing large craft.

What I am hoping for:
Insight from our stunningly broad and well educated community to show me where I am falling short.

Where I am at currently:
I have a 7,500 ton modular space station with robotic controls and 9 small craft bays. The 7,500 ton size was chosen so that a Mammoth could lift 5 of these into orbit or another system at a time. The comparatively massive cargo space is meant to represent shops/restaurants/entertainment venues, etc.
Each small craft is actually a 10 person luxury home. But if you need to hop down to the local planet, or flee a disintegrating space station, your house is your vehicle/escape pod. The specifics are detailed below.

Code: [Select]
Habitat Link Space Station
Base Tech Level: Advanced (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced      3145+
Standard        - 
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-F

Weight: 7500 tons
BV: 355
Cost: 2,378,350,600 C-bills

Movement: 0/0
Heat Sinks: 58
Fuel Points: 0/1030 (103.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 0.28

Structural Integrity: 1
Sail Integrity: 3
Armor: 18 (Capital Scale)
                  Armor 
-------------------------
Nose                  3 
Left Front Side       3 
Right Front Side      3 
Aft                   3 
Aft Left Side         3 
Aft Right Side        3 

Weapons            Loc  Heat 
------------------------------
Point Defense Bay  NOS    2   
Small Laser                   
Small Laser                   
Point Defense Bay  FLS    2   
Small Laser                   
Small Laser                   
Point Defense Bay  FRS    2   
Small Laser                   
Small Laser                   
Point Defense Bay  ALS    2   
Small Laser                   
Small Laser                   
Point Defense Bay  ARS    2   
Small Laser                   
Small Laser                   
Point Defense Bay  AFT    2   
Small Laser                   
Small Laser                   


Equipment                             Loc 
-------------------------------------------
Smart Robotic Control System (SRCS)  HULL 
Communications Equipment (15 tons)   HULL 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Small Craft (9 doors) - 9 units (2 recovery open)
Cargo Space (0 doors) - 4,001.500 tons

Crew                 
----------------------
Officers            11
Enlisted/Non-rated  51
Gunners              2
Bay Personnel       45
Code: [Select]
Houseboat Small Craft
Base Tech Level: Standard (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced        - 
Standard      3145+
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-D

Weight: 200 tons
BV: 100
Cost: 7,470,300 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 7
Fuel Points: 1200 (15.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 5
Armor: 36
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose            9 
Left Side       9 
Right Side      9 
Aft             9 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (1 door) - 41 tons

Crew                 
---------------------
Officers            1
Enlisted/Non-rated  2
Gunners             0
Bay Personnel       0

Quarters
---------------------
First Class          10
« Last Edit: 25 November 2024, 19:37:30 by Syzyx »
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Daryk

  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 41117
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #1 on: 25 November 2024, 18:53:28 »
I'm not seeing any passenger quarters on the Small Craft?

Syzyx

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 684
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #2 on: 25 November 2024, 19:37:58 »
Thank you for the catch. I've updated the houseboat to show the 10 first class quarters.
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Daryk

  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 41117
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #3 on: 25 November 2024, 19:49:23 »
That's more like what I was expecting, thanks! :)

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4785
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #4 on: 25 November 2024, 22:17:54 »
I'm not seeing any quarters for the space station crew. Bay Personnel would be covered but the rest need quarters. I would also add more for employees of the shops, restaurants, and entertainment venues. Also, do they have a transport to and from the station?
 
I'd also wonder why the small craft don't have any luxury or ultra-luxury quarters but I suppose they could be on the station for the rich to stay in while the small craft go on trips.


Edit:
Field Kitchens could represent restaurants.
MASH Units would be good to take care of sick passengers.
« Last Edit: 25 November 2024, 22:26:31 by RifleMech »

DevianID

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #5 on: 26 November 2024, 00:18:45 »
What does the smart robotic control system do for this space station/space station construction?  Is it just a flavor thing?

Also, for the modular thing, isnt that paying 4x the cost for no benefit?  I thought modular space stations was for those too big to fit in a dropship they can be broken up into pieces and assembled on site?  You fit in a dropship no problem, you dont need to be shipped in pieces and assembled to your total size of 7500 on site.  Unless I misunderstood how the 4x cost 'Modular' option works.

Syzyx

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 684
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #6 on: 26 November 2024, 08:29:55 »
RifleMech:
The space station crew is robotic so have been assigned steerage quarters per my understanding of the rules. No need for lowly 'workers' to interrupt the idyll of the wealthy. Though I agree I should have some other means of transport to and from the station for visitors and such.

DevianID:
My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that the robotic control system alleviates the need for living crew to work/maintain the station. And in this case to also act as the shop/service entity aboard the station. Regarding the modular component, I understand that to be needed to link units together to create an ever expanding colony of these tiny stations? If that isn't needed I can easily drop that.
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1560
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #7 on: 26 November 2024, 11:54:17 »
Given the goal, I'd be tempted to build manned space stations of 101K tons with 3 doors and many smallcraft bays. 

Manned: it's radically cheaper
101K tons: the smallest size allowing 3 doors
3 doors: the smallest size allowing a set of stations to dock in a graph which allows short paths between any two small craft up to the limit of 3 dimensions.
Smallcraft bays: a great modular element supporting quarters.

Syzyx

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 684
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #8 on: 26 November 2024, 15:59:30 »
According to MegaMek Lab, the 7,500 ton space station gets 9 doors, which is one for each existing small craft so they can be used as escape pods without delay. Is MM Lab wrong about the number of doors?
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1560
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #9 on: 26 November 2024, 16:20:30 »
According to MegaMek Lab, the 7,500 ton space station gets 9 doors, which is one for each existing small craft so they can be used as escape pods without delay. Is MM Lab wrong about the number of doors?
Ah, no---I misspoke.  I meant 'docking hardpoints'.  You can have 1 docking hardpoint per 50k tons or part thereof. 

I think it's technically possible to also dock cargo door to cargo door, but that doesn't sound like a particularly stable docking procedure.

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4785
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #10 on: 26 November 2024, 18:05:51 »
RifleMech:
The space station crew is robotic so have been assigned steerage quarters per my understanding of the rules. No need for lowly 'workers' to interrupt the idyll of the wealthy. Though I agree I should have some other means of transport to and from the station for visitors and such.


SRCS on structures and mobile structures use steerage quarters as their weight. For other units over 10 tons it adds weight to the control systems.  The rules also say SRCS isn't exempt from life support.
Quote
such systems reflect a mix of accommodations for any short-term maintenance crews to work in, or necessary heating, cooling, and ventilation required of the unit’s computers and electronics.
Steerage Quarters would work for that. At least as far as the stations normal functions go. I suppose it would work for restaurants and stores too but I would think that the wealthy would want people to weight on them and perform for them, butlers, maids, waitstaff, celebrity chefs, top entertainers, designers, etc. If you have them on the station, they'd need quarters.

AlphaMirage

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4035
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #11 on: 26 November 2024, 20:53:33 »
Yeah, I'm very suspect on this as well. This isn't Elysium, you have entire planets catering to the rich and famous during the Star League and even into the Succession Wars, not just space stations, with plenty of space for anyone that can afford property without having to invest in artificial life support. Honestly space stations. desolate planets, and inhabited moons would probably be seen as dirty dens of inequity for these 'Elite' people.  Most of them would be manned by lower classes and operated as industrial facilities since nobody with the means wants to be elbow to elbow without having their host of servants and facilitators around unless its for a very specific and short period of time.

Afterall you don't need to dedicate actually valuable real estate on a habitable world to industrial concerns if its on a space station; that can be another mansion, 'wildlife conservation area,' plantation, horse pasture, or something else that's nice. Space/Real Estate on habitable worlds is the premium commodity not Space itself.

I could see a Private Island type arrangement in places like Solaris IV for when the rich and famous wanted a microgravity entertainment experience. For that small craft (for Astrolux-esque Yachts) and maybe a single docking collar, for Monarchs when important people are around and Mules when they aren't. This facility would be massive because it would be an Olympic/Potemkin village type habitat/Cruise Ship experience where rich people can cosplay as space explorers and participate in zero gravity polo matches for as long as they wish, or engage in other vices away from planetary authorities/paparazzi.

Syzyx

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 684
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #12 on: 27 November 2024, 11:07:13 »
I certainly agree that such a project is ridiculous in the face of everything available in the BattleTech universe at the time of the Star League (mk I).

However, my view is that people will always find a way to try to be elitist and if just any given multi-quadrillionaire can own a prime planet or two, then something must be had to stand out. The impracticality and absurd costs in this project are largely the point.

What I am asking for is insight on what should be included or not so that it's functional as a habitat. No good having a super expensive space dwelling if you can't actually dwell in it at the level of luxury one is looking for.

I am grateful for all of the input so far and will be putting up new versions of the small craft and station so soon as I can figure out how to get MM Lab to display the assigned quarters...
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

Daryk

  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 41117
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #13 on: 27 November 2024, 15:04:43 »
Grav decks?  I don't see any...

RifleMech

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4785
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #14 on: 28 November 2024, 00:14:57 »
I can certainly see the wealthy having their own space station. Most people don't get to go off planet so having their own station would feed their sense of superiority. It's like having their own yacht. They can cruise the seas without mixing with the peasants on the cruise ships. To go with that there's also privacy which would be an added plus for the famous and infamous. No nosy reporters or star struck fans to bother them.

Sticking with that ocean travel, there's also the view. Planetary views can be amazing but some views can only be seen from the sea and some can only from space. If a space station can be a tourist  destination, the wealthy are going to want their own space.

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5118
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #15 on: 28 November 2024, 09:49:49 »
Thank you for the catch. I've updated the houseboat to show the 10 first class quarters.

Only First Class?  Using the Princess Dropship as a model, you could have Luxury quarters at 15 tons per and Ultra-Luxury at 20 tons per.  I'd use cargo tonnage to reflect the extra mass built into these Quarters.

A Smart Robotics System would be in use so even the staff doesn't have to get too messy.

EPG

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 230
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #16 on: 28 November 2024, 14:45:24 »
Yeah, I'm very suspect on this as well. This isn't Elysium, you have entire planets catering to the rich and famous during the Star League and even into the Succession Wars, not just space stations, with plenty of space for anyone that can afford property without having to invest in artificial life support. Honestly space stations. desolate planets, and inhabited moons would probably be seen as dirty dens of inequity for these 'Elite' people.  Most of them would be manned by lower classes and operated as industrial facilities since nobody with the means wants to be elbow to elbow without having their host of servants and facilitators around unless its for a very specific and short period of time.

Afterall you don't need to dedicate actually valuable real estate on a habitable world to industrial concerns if its on a space station; that can be another mansion, 'wildlife conservation area,' plantation, horse pasture, or something else that's nice. Space/Real Estate on habitable worlds is the premium commodity not Space itself.

I could see a Private Island type arrangement in places like Solaris IV for when the rich and famous wanted a microgravity entertainment experience. For that small craft (for Astrolux-esque Yachts) and maybe a single docking collar, for Monarchs when important people are around and Mules when they aren't. This facility would be massive because it would be an Olympic/Potemkin village type habitat/Cruise Ship experience where rich people can cosplay as space explorers and participate in zero gravity polo matches for as long as they wish, or engage in other vices away from planetary authorities/paparazzi.

Some people will do it just because it’s unusual or because it’s really what they like.

One thing for sure though is that some of them will want/prefer human servants.  At that level of wealth having a staff of hundreds is a status symbol of its own - they don’t need the ‘cost saving’ measures of automation or robots - they just hire people for all that sort of thing.

Syzyx

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 684
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #17 on: 29 November 2024, 13:50:06 »
Taking into account the above input, I have updated the Houseboat small craft, turning it into a series of ships that the infeasibly wealthy can choose from. I have added robotic controls to each small craft to alleviate the need for anyone so rich to actually know how to do something.

I will be revisiting the space station itself once I am more satisfied with the small craft. I have removed the costs as I don't know how to price the Luxury and Ultra Luxury cabins.

The Pinnacle class is for the owners and well regarded guests:
Code: [Select]
Houseboat Pinnacle
Base Tech Level: Experimental (IS)
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-F

Weight: 200 tons
BV: 100
Cost: 8,201,550 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 7
Fuel Points: 1200 (15.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 5
Armor: 36
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose            9 
Left Side       9 
Right Side      9 
Aft             9 

Equipment                                         Loc 
-------------------------------------------------------
Shielded Aerospace Smart Robotic Control System  HULL 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (1 door) - 16 tons

Crew                 
---------------------
Officers            1
Enlisted/Non-rated  2
Gunners             0
Bay Personnel       0

Quarters - 100 tons
---------------------
Ultra Luxury       5

The Elite class is for those who are willing to sacrifice a little luxury for more luggage:
Code: [Select]
Houseboat Elite
Base Tech Level: Experimental (IS)
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-F

Weight: 200 tons
BV: 100

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 7
Fuel Points: 1200 (15.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 5
Armor: 36
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose            9 
Left Side       9 
Right Side      9 
Aft             9 

Equipment                                         Loc 
-------------------------------------------------------
Shielded Aerospace Smart Robotic Control System  HULL 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (1 door) - 26 tons

Crew                 
---------------------
Officers            1
Enlisted/Non-rated  2
Gunners             0
Bay Personnel       0

Quarters - 90 tons
---------------------
Luxury       6

The Privilege class is for the kids, friends of the family, or even well cared for servants:
Code: [Select]
Houseboat Privilege
Base Tech Level: Experimental (IS)
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-F

Weight: 200 tons
BV: 100

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 7
Fuel Points: 1200 (15.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 5
Armor: 36
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose            9 
Left Side       9 
Right Side      9 
Aft             9 

Equipment                                         Loc 
-------------------------------------------------------
Shielded Aerospace Smart Robotic Control System  HULL 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (1 door) - 16 tons

Crew                 
---------------------
Officers            1
Enlisted/Non-rated  2
Gunners             0
Bay Personnel       0

Quarters - 100 tons
---------------------
First Class       10

And then there's the plain Houseboat class. For those who want living servants but don't want to be seen indulging the lower life-forms:
Code: [Select]
Houseboat
Base Tech Level: Experimental (IS)
Tech Rating: D/X-X-X-F

Weight: 200 tons
BV: 100

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 7
Fuel Points: 1200 (15.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 1.84

Structural Integrity: 5
Armor: 36
            Armor 
-------------------
Nose            9 
Left Side       9 
Right Side      9 
Aft             9 

Equipment                                         Loc 
-------------------------------------------------------
Shielded Aerospace Smart Robotic Control System  HULL 

Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Cargo Space (1 door) - 18 tons

Crew                 
---------------------
Officers            1
Enlisted/Non-rated  2
Gunners             0
Bay Personnel       0

Quarters - 98 tons
---------------------
Standard       14

What are the community's thoughts? Am I too far off the mark for the impossibly rich mindset?
But as a matter of fact I was quite busy getting potty-trained at the time and had no time for interstellar politics.- ykonoclast

DOC_Agren

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5372
Re: Help me work on a crazy idea for a spaceborne habitat
« Reply #18 on: 30 November 2024, 10:53:38 »
Nope I love it
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"