Invasion Station

[Valles]

So, I got to thinking about how would I do a planetary invasion using known Battletech rules and situations, and this is what fell out.

                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Invasion Station
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Space Station
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              60,000 tons
Length:            398 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       0
Maximum Thrust:    0
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:         
    6 Autocannon/10
   12 Autocannon/5
   12 LRM 15
   18 SRM 6
   12 PPC
   24 Medium Laser
    6 Autocannon/20
   36 Autocannon/2
    2 Killer Whale
   24 Small Laser
   36 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
Example Empire Case Study 2838-B53-C

Projecting existing trends of combat and strategic losses indicates a high
probability of complete loss of all warship assets as well as the strategic
capability to replace them. A catastrophic loss of non-combatant jump collar
capacity is also likely.

Given that a total loss of all FTL transport will represent the dissolution of
our glorious Example Empire, this study will focus on attempting to address
the next-worse case, assuming less than ten thousand jump-capable docking
collars available for all military and civilian tasks combined.

This paper, the C document, is a proposal for a minimum-collar first-line
invasion transport asset, capable of landing and sustaining one combined arms
regiment on a hostile world. The critical assumption is that production of
large fusion torch engines has been curtailed along with KF Drive production;
this paper's primary purpose is a study of asset suitability of a low thrust
'station-keeping' type subtorch drive as is in common civilian use.

Most critically: Reducing constant-acceleration trajectories to one tenth of a
standard gravity yields a time increase for jump-point-to-planet courses of
only a factor of three. While this change has tactical and strategic
implications, it seems likely that they are soluble given study and
preparation.

==Capabilities:==
In addition to defensive anti-fighter and anti-missile weaponry, the platform
should be equipped with two nuclear-capable missile launchers to provide
supporting bombardment fire and a minimal deterrent capability against enemy
heavy aerospace assets. Additionally, a standard wing (18) of aerospace
fighters is included for both defensive, aerospace superiority, and ground
strike taskings.

Given the long-term operational profile, the 'hot-bunking' approach favored by
warship-centric landing craft is to be avoided and full passenger quarters
provided for all troops and technical staff.

As many as forty-eight small craft should be carried; thirty-six equipped with
light vehicle bays for combat deployment of same (2838-B53-E) and twelve with
cargo tie downs suitable for battlemechs of up to seventy-five tons
(2838-B53-F). Further reduction of the small craft capability and deployment
of heavy combat vehicles can be achieved by the development of sealed orbital
drop pods suitable for combat vehicle use, but as that is not an off-the-shelf
technology it is outside the bounds of this document.

Embarked ground assets include thirty-six battlemechs of between twenty and
seventy-five tons, seventy-two combat vehicles of fifty tons or less, and five
hundred and four infantry. Deploying the mechs from orbit and the vehicles and
infantry by shuttle, the entire force can be deployed in no more than two
round trips. Supply tonnage is ten thousand eight hundred, plus seven thousand
tons of reaction mass.

==Variants:==
2838-B53-D is a parallel study of a 100,000 ton station design organized on an
occulsion-management principle, if full-capability production of KF boom
circuitry can be maintained.

2838-B53-B and 2838-B53-C are 60,000 and 100,000 ton designs for planetary
invasion role based on high-thrust, orbital-only platforms (the so-called
'monitor' principle) as case studies for the loss of KF-drive production
capacity but not fusion torch production capacity.

2838-B53-A and subvariants are a study series for plantary invasion vessel
designs in case of the loss of fusion torch production capability but not
Compact KF Drive produuction and attendant shipyards.

==Deployment==
Three Invasion Stations, a force suitable for carriage on a single
Invader-class dropship, is expected to represent a viable force to take and
hold a relatively lightly defended world. Supplies of on-board reaction mass
should be sufficient to stage the resulting aero regiment out of strike range
with the stations, and a full aero regiment with nuclear bombardment support
is expected to be adequate to deal with planetary defenses operating
relatively limited transatmospheric wings.

Given the collar-limitation assumption, it is likewise assumed that small
dropship types (Union, Leopard, Fury, Gazelle, etc) will be removed from
production in favor of larger units making worthwhile use of available
jumpship collars. For moderately defended worlds, or ones on which the
defending transatmospheric element exceeds one-third of the basic invasion
force, assigning a second jumpship to ferry legacy landing or assault
dropships in-system will allow staged assaults, with the Invasion Stations
orbiting outside of reasonable strike range of the planetary surface while
ferry elements carry out a 'last mile' delivery leg.

For major assaults against defended worlds such as regional capitals or major
production centers, Invasion Stations may be assumed as the ground-element
transport, providing the primary carry capacity while the actual landing and
assault operations are carried out by dedicated new-production large dropships
(Colossus, Excalibur, Vengeance, or down-teched equivalents, along with some
assault-platform design equivalent to 2838-B53-G).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Invasion Station
Mass:              60,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                          720.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 0
      Maximum Thrust: 0
Structural Integrity: 1                                                600.00
Total Heat Sinks:    496 Single                                        414.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   7,276.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                 60.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                108.00
Food & Water:  (262 days supply)                                     1,815.50
Armor Type:  Standard  (204 total armor pts)                           254.50
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 34
   Fore-Left/Right:                   34/34
   Aft-Left/Right:                    34/34
   Aft:                                  34

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Unmanned Small Craft Bay (12) with 3 doors                2,400.00
           Unmanned Battlemech Bay (36)                              5,400.00
           Cargo (1)                                                 3,600.00
   Bay 2:  Unmanned Small Craft Bay (36) with 3 doors                7,200.00
           Unmanned Light Vehicle Bay (72)                           3,600.00
           Cargo (1)                                                 3,600.00
   Bay 3:  Unmanned ASF Bay (18) with 2 doors                        2,700.00
           Cargo (1)                                                 3,600.00

DropShip Capacity:  1 Docking Hardpoints                             1,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (95-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Grav Deck #2:  (95-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  232 (7 tons each)                                       1,624.00

Crew and Passengers:
     18 Officers (16 minimum)                                          180.00
     39 Crew (39 minimum)                                              273.00
     33 Gunners (33 minimum)                                           231.00
     54 1st Class Passengers                                           540.00
    162 2nd Class Passengers                                         1,134.00
    576 Steerage Passengers                                          2,880.00
    504 Marines                                                      2,520.00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) Nose     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    3     14.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  Nose     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    2     18.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        Nose     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   10     19.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         Nose     2(24)     --     --     --   12     13.00
2 PPC                      Nose     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   20     14.00
4 Medium Laser             Nose     2(20)     --     --     --   12      4.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) Nose     2(20)     --     --     --    7     18.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) Nose     1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --    6     39.00
1 Killer Whale(20 msls)    Nose         4      4      4      4   20  1,150.00
4 Small Laser              Nose     2(24)     --     --     --    4      2.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      4.00
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) FL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    6     28.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  FL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    4     36.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        FL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   20     38.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         FL/R     2(24)     --     --     --   24     26.00
2 PPC                      FL/R     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   40     28.00
4 Medium Laser             FL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   24      8.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) FL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   14     36.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) FL/R     1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --   12     78.00
4 Small Laser              FL/R     2(24)     --     --     --    8      4.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      8.00
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) AL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    6     28.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  AL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    4     36.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        AL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   20     38.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         AL/R     2(24)     --     --     --   24     26.00
2 PPC                      AL/R     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   40     28.00
4 Medium Laser             AL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   24      8.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) AL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   14     36.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) AL/R     1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --   12     78.00
4 Small Laser              AL/R     2(24)     --     --     --    8      4.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      8.00
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) Aft      1(10)  1(10)     --     --    3     14.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  Aft      1(10)  1(10)     --     --    2     18.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        Aft      2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   10     19.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         Aft      2(24)     --     --     --   12     13.00
2 PPC                      Aft      2(20)  2(20)     --     --   20     14.00
4 Medium Laser             Aft      2(20)     --     --     --   12      4.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) Aft      2(20)     --     --     --    7     18.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) Aft      1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --    6     39.00
1 Killer Whale(20 msls)    Aft          4      4      4      4   20  1,150.00
4 Small Laser              Aft      2(24)     --     --     --    4      2.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      4.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (5.00%)                                            3,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                              Heat: 496      60,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        228,420,660 C-Bills
Battle Value:      15,304
Cost per BV:       14,925.55
Weapon Value:      10,675 (Ratio = .70)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 942;  MRV = 377;  LRV = 108;  ERV = 23
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 92,562
                   (7,522 Structure, 70,740 Life Support, 14,300 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 109,386  (118% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable

[Daryk]

That's an interesting approach to the problem! :)

[Valles]

Tactically and strategically, monitors would be the better solution, but I tend to think that they shouldn't exist without an outright bottom-up rework and reboot of the entire setting.

[idea weenie]

Tactically and strategically, monitors would be the better solution, but I tend to think that they shouldn't exist without an outright bottom-up rework and reboot of the entire setting.

Monitors only in the form of space-only Dropships, yes.  Otherwise your 60kton+ platform is stuck in whatever system it is assembled in.  You might be able to transport it to the target system and assemble it there, but how long will it take to put the craft together good enough to take into combat?

Now a defender using monitors might be an issue.  They can't really send their craft out to attack, but the heavily armed platform means they are relatively immune to attack from a small faction.  Of course the defender can only really defend the planet and its moons, so you could set up bases in the rest of the system.


For the Invasion Station, I'd be tempted to have more Aerospace fighters on board.  You have to perform air strikes on the target planet, and also protect the station itself.  It is well-armed, but if someone could time their strike to go in while the 18 ASF are returning from a strike things could get interesting.  Could some of those Small Craft Bays be removed and used to fit more Aerospace fighters in?

[Daryk]

You can stuff ASF into Small Craft bays without any trouble at all.

[Valles]

Monitors only in the form of space-only Dropships, yes.  Otherwise your 60kton+ platform is stuck in whatever system it is assembled in.  You might be able to transport it to the target system and assemble it there, but how long will it take to put the craft together good enough to take into combat?

Now a defender using monitors might be an issue.  They can't really send their craft out to attack, but the heavily armed platform means they are relatively immune to attack from a small faction.  Of course the defender can only really defend the planet and its moons, so you could set up bases in the rest of the system.

Did the ability to fit KF Booms and jump capability to space stations get removed while I was paying attention to something else? I'd remembered it being possible to jump suitably equipped stations - which the Invasion Station absolutely would be - in one piece all the way up to whatever the maximum limit of a docking collar is this year. The Invasion Station is 60kt because that figure has never been lower than that.

My problem with monitors is, basically, that as presented in HMA they're too good an idea, with decisive advantages in performance and cost over dropships in anything but the transatmospheric role - such that not using them if they're possible makes everybody in-setting look much stupider.

I prefer not to do that. So even in an entirely apocryphal presentation like this, they're a hypothetical that didn't work out.

For the Invasion Station, I'd be tempted to have more Aerospace fighters on board.  You have to perform air strikes on the target planet, and also protect the station itself.  It is well-armed, but if someone could time their strike to go in while the 18 ASF are returning from a strike things could get interesting.  Could some of those Small Craft Bays be removed and used to fit more Aerospace fighters in?

That'd be one of the advantages the 100kt spring style is supposed to have - or one of the benefits of creating a tank-usable orbital drop pod to eliminate the need for quite so many small craft to shock an entire battalion of tanks down to the surface at once.

[AlphaMirage]

My question is did you add the cost multiplier for a KF-mobile station? There are special rules in Interstellar Ops for those that make them incredibly expensive. C-bills are of course a very flawed measure but they do have to be taken into account when comparing classes. My very similar Ajax dropship was also built along these lines, but unlike the invasion station it can conduct transatmospheric operations by itself even if it often choses small craft deliveries.

[idea weenie]

You can stuff ASF into Small Craft bays without any trouble at all.

True, I guess I am channeling Cannonshop where I worry that the ground forces commander will want to put more orbit-to-surface transports in the Small Craft Bays instead of leaving enough of them for putting in ASF or space-defense Small Craft for self-defense.

Did the ability to fit KF Booms and jump capability to space stations get removed while I was paying attention to something else? I'd remembered it being possible to jump suitably equipped stations - which the Invasion Station absolutely would be - in one piece all the way up to whatever the maximum limit of a docking collar is this year. The Invasion Station is 60kt because that figure has never been lower than that.

My problem with monitors is, basically, that as presented in HMA they're too good an idea, with decisive advantages in performance and cost over dropships in anything but the transatmospheric role - such that not using them if they're possible makes everybody in-setting look much stupider.

I prefer not to do that. So even in an entirely apocryphal presentation like this, they're a hypothetical that didn't work out.

That'd be one of the advantages the 100kt spring style is supposed to have - or one of the benefits of creating a tank-usable orbital drop pod to eliminate the need for quite so many small craft to shock an entire battalion of tanks down to the surface at once.

Monitors are extremely powerful for their mass compared to Warships, the key is that their strategic mobility is extremely poor.

Rough math:
KF Drives are 90-95% the cost of Warships.  Removing this mass and replacing it with more armor, weapons, and other stuff would take a 10 billion C-Bill ship and make it cost roughly 1-2 Billion C-Bills.  (10 billion - 9 billion KF setup = 1 Billion, double for more toys = 2 Billion).  So on average a Monitor will have twice the combat power of a similar-sized Warship.

Assume two nations, each with 10 systems, and both nations could normally afford 10 Warships.  However Nation_A wants to build Monitors, so builds 50 of them while Nation_B chooses only Warships (10 of them).  This is Batletech so the two nations go to war.  Nation_A has Monitors so it has to be on the defensive, unless it wants to take the risk of disassembling a few of its Monitors to be shipped to a Nation_B system, then reassembled in that system.

So Nation_B can attack any of Nation_A's systems relatively freely.  However, on average there will be 5 Monitors per system, which will have an equal combat power as the 10 Warships of Nation_A.  Nation_A's only hope is to find a system with fewer Monitors and raid that system.

However if you get to 11 systems, then Nation_B's strategic capability comes into play.  On average each of Nation_A's systems will have 5 Monitors (it can support up to 55, but has to divide them among 11 systems).  However Nation_B can deploy 11 Warships offensively, which gives them a slim advantage (11 Warships vs 5 double-strength Monitors, for 11:10 ratio).

As the number of systems rises, the local advantage of Monitors drops accordingly.  Monitors will be dangerous individually, but the number of Warships will wear them down.

[Valles]

My question is did you add the cost multiplier for a KF-mobile station? There are special rules in Interstellar Ops for those that make them incredibly expensive. C-bills are of course a very flawed measure but they do have to be taken into account when comparing classes. My very similar Ajax dropship was also built along these lines, but unlike the invasion station it can conduct transatmospheric operations by itself even if it often choses small craft deliveries.

I did not, because HMA is ancient and creaking and doesn't have that. To anticipate the next question, I continue using HMA because MML is kind of a miserable experience to deal with for larger units with a lot of weapons. Lemme go check and see... x20, or rather, x4 the existing cost, so something on the order of 913 million. Frankly, just enough to explain why it wouldn't be done without a huge scarcity in docking collars - but still cheaper than doing it with a dropship.

True, I guess I am channeling Cannonshop where I worry that the ground forces commander will want to put more orbit-to-surface transports in the Small Craft Bays instead of leaving enough of them for putting in ASF or space-defense Small Craft for self-defense.

The design intent is that, if there's enough local opposition to make that needed, there will be other escort forces - other stations of the same class, at the very minimum. Those bays are small craft bays because... they're for small craft.

Monitors are extremely powerful for their mass compared to Warships, the key is that their strategic mobility is extremely poor.

The smallest monitor HMA will let you design is 30kt; anything between that and 100kt can be built to go on a docking collar, giving them exactly the same mobility as a dropship. Which is why I used those for my 'Monitors are too good' metric; their capability relative to warships is pretty much irrelevant, though, yeah, at that point any Corvette you can design starts to get a nervous look on its face.

[Hellraiser]

By the time you need a Jumpship to Move this & a Tug to get it near the planet, I feel like a DS could get the job done better.

I mean, I'd like to be able to bring a Capitol Class SS along w/ me wherever I go, but, for the most part, they are a bit of a pricey extravagance.

I'm wondering if something like the Overlord-CV meets Overlord-A3 hybrid or a less weaponized Mule/Excalibur-PWS might be an option.

If those aren't big enough then something Tiamat or Mammoth sized would be comparable.

End results is the SS will need 1-2 collars if the "Overly Large" quirk is in play & even if its not it needs a TUG if your going anywhere this year.

It's not worth discussing the horrible fan rules OKA "M*******".   So I won't.

[Daryk]

Station keeping drives only take you three times longer to get somewhere than a 1G transit... :)

[Vehrec]

Honestly, my critique of this would be 'for 60,000 tons, you sure aren't bringing much to the party!'  You've got 36 Battlemechs and 72 'light vehicle bays'.  Call that an 'Mechanized Infantry Battalion' if all 72 of those light vehicles are IFVs.  Yes, you might have a regiment on paper, but it's a pretty flimsy one.  Partly, this is because all of this needs to be ferried to the ground by specialist drop vehicles.  10800 more tons are spent on supplies, so out of just shy of 30,000 tons of cargo and bays, only a reinforced battalion is carried to the ground?  Yes, those supplies are probably needed, especially if you're gonna be ferrying units up and down the gravity well all day.  But at the end of the day, it's 'not that much more than an Overlord' to most IS commanders.

[Valles]

I mean, if you intended to accept Canon-Ish amounts of supplies you could do this:

                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Invasion Station (Undersupply)
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       Space Station
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              60,000 tons
Length:            398 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       0
Maximum Thrust:    0
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:         
    6 Autocannon/10
   12 Autocannon/5
   12 LRM 15
   18 SRM 6
   12 PPC
   24 Medium Laser
    6 Autocannon/20
   36 Autocannon/2
   24 Small Laser
   36 Machine Gun
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Invasion Station (Undersupply)
Mass:              60,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                          720.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 0
      Maximum Thrust: 0
Structural Integrity: 1                                                600.00
Total Heat Sinks:    496 Single                                        414.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     180.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                 60.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                 78.00
Food & Water:  (180 days supply)                                     2,603.50
Armor Type:  Standard  (204 total armor pts)                           254.50
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 34
   Fore-Left/Right:                   34/34
   Aft-Left/Right:                    34/34
   Aft:                                  34

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  BattleMechs (132) with 2 doors                           19,800.00
           Cargo (1)                                                 1,000.00
   Bay 2:  Light Vehicles (to 50T) (264) with 4 doors               13,200.00
           Infantry (foot) Platoons (36)                               180.00
           Cargo (1)                                                 1,544.00
   Bay 3:  Fighters (60) with 2 doors                                9,000.00
           Small Craft (18)                                          3,600.00
           Cargo (1)                                                 1,000.00

DropShip Capacity:  1 Docking Hardpoints                             1,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (95-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Grav Deck #2:  (95-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  18 (7 tons each)                                          126.00

Crew and Passengers:
     18 Officers (15 minimum)                                          180.00
     39 Crew (39 minimum)                                              273.00
     31 Gunners (31 minimum)                                           217.00
  2,802 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) Nose     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    3     14.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  Nose     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    2     18.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        Nose     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   10     19.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         Nose     2(24)     --     --     --   12     13.00
2 PPC                      Nose     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   20     14.00
4 Medium Laser             Nose     2(20)     --     --     --   12      4.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) Nose     2(20)     --     --     --    7     18.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) Nose     1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --    6     39.00
4 Small Laser              Nose     2(24)     --     --     --    4      2.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      4.00
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) FL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    6     28.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  FL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    4     36.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        FL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   20     38.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         FL/R     2(24)     --     --     --   24     26.00
2 PPC                      FL/R     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   40     28.00
4 Medium Laser             FL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   24      8.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) FL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   14     36.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) FL/R     1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --   12     78.00
4 Small Laser              FL/R     2(24)     --     --     --    8      4.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      8.00
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) AL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    6     28.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  AL/R     1(10)  1(10)     --     --    4     36.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        AL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   20     38.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         AL/R     2(24)     --     --     --   24     26.00
2 PPC                      AL/R     2(20)  2(20)     --     --   40     28.00
4 Medium Laser             AL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   24      8.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) AL/R     2(20)     --     --     --   14     36.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) AL/R     1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --   12     78.00
4 Small Laser              AL/R     2(24)     --     --     --    8      4.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      8.00
1 Autocannon/10(20 rounds) Aft      1(10)  1(10)     --     --    3     14.00
2 Autocannon/5(40 rounds)  Aft      1(10)  1(10)     --     --    2     18.00
2 LRM 15(40 rounds)        Aft      2(18)  2(18)  2(18)     --   10     19.00
3 SRM 6(60 rounds)         Aft      2(24)     --     --     --   12     13.00
2 PPC                      Aft      2(20)  2(20)     --     --   20     14.00
4 Medium Laser             Aft      2(20)     --     --     --   12      4.00
1 Autocannon/20(20 rounds) Aft      2(20)     --     --     --    7     18.00
6 Autocannon/2(135 rounds) Aft      1(12)  1(12)  1(12)     --    6     39.00
4 Small Laser              Aft      2(24)     --     --     --    4      2.00
  6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)                                       0      4.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (5.00%)                                            3,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                              Heat: 456      60,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        268,474,520 C-Bills
Battle Value:      8,549
Cost per BV:       31,404.2
Weapon Value:      9,874 (Ratio = 1.15)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 869;  MRV = 303;  LRV = 50;  ERV = 0
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 210,969
                   (53,049 Structure, 145,940 Life Support, 11,980 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 107,810  (51% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable


But part of the point is that that would represent an insane lack of logistics for an actual operation, and in fact be little different from shooting your troops yourself. If you want them to accomplish anything, you need to send supplies - food, medicine, clothing and bedding as much as replacement armor and ammunition. So in addition to the Overlord and pair of Leopard CVs, the Triumph and the Condor, you need to send along a Mule and a Buccaneer.

Seven collars vs one. Costwise and pulling from HMA, 334M for the Mule, 107M for the Buccaneer, 171M each for the Leopard CVs, 266M for the Condor, 335M for the cheaper of the two Triumphs I see listed, then 334M for the Overlord - 1,718M in total vs 913M for the corrected station value. Even taking the cost of 48 small craft into account and assuming a high value for those because I haven't done up a design, you're still maxing out around 1,600M.

Obviously, in canon, no nation adopted this approach, but I incline to think that the largest factor in why has mostly to do with loss of production facilities rather than anything doctrinal or tactical.

[Hellraiser]

Station keeping drives only take you three times longer to get somewhere than a 1G transit... :)

So instead of a week to prepare, they get a month to prepare, LOL.
I'm sure no invasion has ever gone wrong after giving the enemy a month's notice of your arrival.  Hehehe.

You'd almost have to risk Pirate Points & it still wouldn't be a big advantage meanwhile as noted this force is good for a raid but it's not much of an invasion force & the added effort of shuttling them from Orbit to Station & Back.... yeah, not for me.

[Daryk]

Eh, just use a non-standard point beyond the proximity limit.  They'll be lucky to spot you coming in off axis.

[Valles]

Eh, just use a non-standard point beyond the proximity limit.  They'll be lucky to spot you coming in off axis.

Calculate an emergence that puts whatever the local equivalent of Neptune is between arrival and the local habitable planet, if you want to ensure they don't. I don't think BT has rules for doing so, but if you include it in the design spec then aerobraking should be perfectly doable given the properties of BT armor.

So instead of a week to prepare, they get a month to prepare, LOL.
I'm sure no invasion has ever gone wrong after giving the enemy a month's notice of your arrival.  Hehehe.

You'd almost have to risk Pirate Points & it still wouldn't be a big advantage meanwhile as noted this force is good for a raid but it's not much of an invasion force & the added effort of shuttling them from Orbit to Station & Back.... yeah, not for me.

One station isn't much of an invasion, no, unless it's a target that's not going to be defended by anything more than a couple lances of local mechwarriors and maybe a battalion of Quikscell products. More of a vertically integrated slice of one. Three, though, is getting you there, and nine definitely is. And nine collars are much easier to come by than fifty-odd, while a strategic response that can stop three mech, three aero, and six conventional regiments from doing whatever it pleases to a target that doesn't have equivalent force on site already is... not really something organized in less than a month, honestly.

Or however many conventional regiments are actually included; that's not intended to be a 'final statement' so much as a starting point.

I admit that I'm puzzled by the apparent assumption that regular surface-to-orbit legs for the combat units will be part of the operational tempo, rather than dropping and fighting it out supported by supply deliveries.

[Hellraiser]

It still comes down to either slow as heck movement or needed tugs.

Something like a "Combat Mammoth" to me is just more "effective" even if it isn't more "efficient".

[Daryk]

It's a difference of scale... at the tactical level, sure, you want all the speed you can get.  At the operational level, "fast enough" is all you need.

[Fallen_Raven]

Since this is a hypothetical no Warship scenario, cutting the Killer Whales down to White Sharks might be more practical. If nothing else, the ability to pack more rounds into your magazines for sustained fire would be important for this kind of invasion platform.

[Valles]

It's a difference of scale... at the tactical level, sure, you want all the speed you can get.  At the operational level, "fast enough" is all you need.

Pretty much my thinking, yeah. A very quick and dirty version of a War Mammoth with the same combatant payload and comparable armor and armament and a six month supply endurance comes out about 400M more than the station, which, I'll be honest, is a lot less than I expected. So, same strategic speed, much greater tactical speed, much greater obligatory risks because it lacks the parasite-delivery option.

Both platforms become substantially better if we assume that somebody in this AU came up with a sealed-for-orbit vehicular drop pod; I think it's reasonable in the technological sense, so in the end, you put down your money and you take your chances. I think that being forced to come to ground to unload is a greater risk than making a slow-and-quiet approach, but if you don't have to...

Since this is a hypothetical no Warship scenario, cutting the Killer Whales down to White Sharks might be more practical. If nothing else, the ability to pack more rounds into your magazines for sustained fire would be important for this kind of invasion platform.

I considered it, and AR10s, and also Barracuda launchers for whatever their dumbfire-bombardment variant was called. I decided that the latter would be too indiscriminate, and that the multi-launchers would be too technologically complex. Between Peacemakers and Santa Anas, I figured that the greater power was worth it, but it's definitely a tradeoff.