“Save” the Jags

[Sjhernan3060]

If the Spirits kept their goals modest and attack Huntress to wipe out the IS invaders and to look cool ( as the clans are wont to do) I don't think they would mind reactivating the SDS system to knock out any incoming from BullDogg?

In this scenario they are claiming Huntress and all materials ( troops, factories etc) as Isorla. As others have mentioned a full on Absorpation would have been very tricky if not impossible to pull off.

So I would scramble their Naval reserve with a goal towards seizing as many ships as they could via boarding action and dropping the Blood Guard Keshik and at least two other galaxies to quickly crush Serpent. 

Any Jags in orbit or on the ground would be invited to join the party.

If the Spirits used their at that point unknown and quite large ground arm to seize huntress I think it could have over time put them in a much better material position.

Frankly I would be churning out ASF and naval assests ASAP afterwards. Then they could have been choosy about their targets in the wars of possession which they had to sit out since they got their butts kicked in the Absorption war right?

[Sjhernan3060]

Also if the Huntress SDS system was turned back on do you think that would have stopped Op Bulldog from coming in to support Serpent?

[Talen5000]

If the Clan SDS system was turned back....almost certainly the Jags would have survived. They'd have ben able to pick off "Bulldog" while it was still incoming.

They'd be weakened, but they'd still have forces available on other Cluster worlds such as Tranquil.

[Sjhernan3060]

Thanks Talen5000,

         In the scenario I am working on, I would have the Blood Guard Keshik Commanded by Khan Karianna Schmidt personally attacking the new Royal Black Watch regiment ( her ancestor was their last commander in the SL era)

        After the Spirits grounded - I would have the Nekemai attack the SDS command post again and kill Karianna but fail to destroy the secondary SDS command node. With Karianna out of the way I think the Spirits could have consolidated their gains and made better choices.

 

[Sjhernan3060]

Question about the 3060 era blood guard keshik. Was that a pure battle mech cluster?

On camospecs in the post 3060 era it is shown to be a mixed unit. If any one has attempted the paint scheme I would like to see your efforts!

[Maelwys]

I'd assume that the Blood Guard Keshik would be like any other Blood Spirit Cluster, 3 Mech Trinaries, 1 BA Trinary and 1 Vehicle Trinary.

[Sjhernan3060]

Duh had not thought about that. Just very weighted towards assualt class units all around?

[Maelwys]

Ayup.

[Sjhernan3060]

In the battles for huntress if the clans could have held onto air superioty would that have been a significant help to the jags? I seem to recall their air force was decimated very early on

[Talen5000]

In the battles for huntress if the clans could have held onto air superioty would that have been a significant help to the jags? I seem to recall their air force was decimated very early on

To be blunt - IMO, the Jags were handed the stupid stick for Bulldog and Serpent and were afflicted by the usual "heroes get all the luck" syndrome.

Even the way they got the Exodus Road was noteworthy....it would have been far more satisfying if ComStars Explorer Corps had located the Homeworlds rather than a Clan warrior making use of technobabble.

Put another way...if one or two things had gone right for the Jags - if the IS cavalry had arrived a few days later...if Serpent had taken just a little bit longer to gather the supplies and charts for a year long voyage....if the Jags had thought to rig up a control unit for the SDS...if they'd had a back up control centre like any decent military...if half their forces hadn't decided for some weird reason to skip over to Tranquil instead of riding to the rescue of their capital...they'd have survived. Bulldog would have been beaten back, they would have repaired their SDS system, they'd have hundreds of Mechs to salvage...

As it is, I still have the feeling that FASA just got sick and tired and bored of the Clan storyline and wanted to shift the focus away from them and this was just their way to bringing the storyline to a juddering halt as quickly as possible.

[Sjhernan3060]

Agreed. Which is why the blood guard Keshik only would have been enough to beat serpent but to hold onto huntress? The spirits would have needed to send 2 galaxies plus.

I suggest the blood guard keshik the beta Galaxy from that time and a provisional Galaxy such as upsilon to help hold it

[Sjhernan3060]

At the battle huntress would the elite keshiks of the jags have had access to ATM heavy lasers? I am unsure if they would have had a chance to trial for them before bulldog etc

[Vition2]

At the battle huntress would the elite keshiks of the jags have had access to ATM heavy lasers? I am unsure if they would have had a chance to trial for them before bulldog etc

No, because there is no such thing as an ATM heavy laser.  :P

More seriously, ATMs become available in 3060, so it is possible, though if they were there they would be in very limited numbers.  Heavy Lasers are available a year earlier so are more likely to be in use, and the numbers would be less limited - though probably still not commonplace.

[Sjhernan3060]

LOL thanks and for the zing on my lack of grammer. I imagine if they had survived the Jags would have been all in on the Heavy Lasers 

[Easy]

Did you just say that there is Clan Advance Tactical Missile and Heavy Laser loot on Huntress?

[Easy]

One of my favorite parts of the Twilight of the Clans is when Ilkhan Osis belated asks the other clans for help after Task Force Serpent has defeated the garrison. He is swiftly denied by the other clans. However after finding my twilight of the Clans scenario pack I would like to revisit this.  I am asking you all for campaign and story ideas. So here are some questions and I ideas I have.

•   Assuming another clan did step forward at the Grand Council could or would the Wolves of the Falcons block the action via Trial of refusal?
•   Personally I would love to have seen the Blood Spirits or Hells Horses jump in or even the Hellions
o   Storyline wise each of these options present opportunities and challenges but I could see the then crusader Horses do it
•   If a clan did help the Jaguars how much force would be required to defeat Task Serpent?
o   A whole Galaxy seems like overkill but a Khan and a Khesik was not enough
•   Finally if you were the Khan who saved the Jags what would you want? I would ask for:
o   The design team for the protos
o   Access to unique Jag designs   
o   I think I would pass on absorption but I am open to ideas

Here's a game scenario...

The Smoke Jaguar tech, stockpiles, industrial properties, in toto, are the stakes, because Victor's group, the Nova Cats, the Com Guards, and the Draconis Combine are holding everything else.

So, really, what is essential 'Smoke Jaguar' is; the Genetic Repository and Possession of Huntress, the homeworld. All these are capital holdings, under well-established principles of war.

A Trial of Possession, for Huntress and all Smoke Jaguar holdings on it, is not /quite/ an Absorption, but if it was demanded of the Clan Grand Council of Khans, by, say, some bright Khan who would negotiate in good faith with Morgan Hasak-Davion, Victor, Focht, Osis, ET ALL, might produce an alternate outcome, or even timeline.

2 cents, faithfully rendered.

[Easy]

cleanup

[Sjhernan3060]

Here's a game scenario...

The Smoke Jaguar tech, stockpiles, industrial properties, in toto, are the stakes, because Victor's group, the Nova Cats, the Com Guards, and the Draconis Combine are holding everything else.

So, really, what is essential 'Smoke Jaguar' is; the Genetic Repository and Possession of Huntress, the homeworld. All these are capital holdings, under well-established principles of war.

A Trial of Possession, for Huntress and all Smoke Jaguar holdings on it, is not /quite/ an Absorption,

See this is what I am after/thinking with my scenario. Now If I remember correctorly the other clans especially the Invaders truly did not think the jags would lose and then when they did they wrote that off as a " guess they weren't that tough after all"

However a Khanny Khan should have taken advantage of the situation and the Jags clear weaknesses to seize their assets in one fell swoop. Storyline wise I am stuck on how to work that if it will be the Spirits who jump I think they might have pulled Osis aside and worked out a backroom deal. They then could have driven a very hard bargain for the support they would have given ( Fleet action, air superiority and at least 1.5 galaxy of ground troops) 

[Talen5000]

See this is what I am after/thinking with my scenario. Now If I remember correctorly the other clans especially the Invaders truly did not think the jags would lose and then when they did they wrote that off as a " guess they weren't that tough after all"

However a Khanny Khan should have taken advantage of the situation and the Jags clear weaknesses to seize their assets in one fell swoop. Storyline wise I am stuck on how to work that if it will be the Spirits who jump I think they might have pulled Osis aside and worked out a backroom deal. They then could have driven a very hard bargain for the support they would have given ( Fleet action, air superiority and at least 1.5 galaxy of ground troops)

The  Spirits are a resource poor Clan so it is pbvious what they would want.

A share of the resources the Clan was supposedly extracted from the Inner Sphere.
Exploration data
A world in the Deep Periphery to call its own as it had started to isolate itself from the other Clans

Lincoln Osis wanted help....the Jags had suffered major losses but still had significant troops left, even if half of them weren't talking to the ilKhan. Huntress was occupied but at the same time the Jags had enough troops to take care of Serpent and then should have been able to arrange survival if they had to...salvage the hundreds of Mechs now littering the landscape, repair the SDS system, use what was left of the Jag fleet to deny access to Huntress.

Help would have ensured more Jags survived and they'd be in a better place. Although..to be honest...having the Jags decide to...as one example...orbitally bombard Serpent would have done the same job.

The original story Blaine told us about wasn't perfect....it would be much better IMO to have the Explorer Corps locate the homeworlds, have a naval battle to let them escape then have a chase  scenario while they got the info back rather have the technobabble solution they used or the alteady tried and discreditted "capture a warship" story....but it made much more sense in many ways than this.

Capture the master repository and you can force the Clans to do a lot.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Because in real life no group or nation is ever so short sighted they cannot adapt.

Which is why the Vikings had a prosperous settlement on Greenland that adapted to the local conditions instead of trying to cling to traditions that were obviously unsuited to the local environment and didn't die out in a couple of generations.  ::)

[Natasha Kerensky]

Which is why the Vikings had a prosperous settlement on Greenland that adapted to the local conditions instead of trying to cling to traditions that were obviously unsuited to the local environment and didn't die out in a couple of generations.  ::)

The Vikings/Norse lasted almost 500 years in Greenland, and there are multiple competing theories about why they died out.  Although they did not adopt Inuit seal hunting, isotopic analysis of their bones shows that the Greenland Norse were eating more and more fish as time went on, so they were adapting. 

Interestingly, Inuit verbal tradition indicates that the Greenland Norse were attacked by other Europeans and abandoned their settlements afterwards, but it could have been anything from climate change to attacks by the Inuit themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greenland#Norse_failure

FWIW...

[Sjhernan3060]

In a situation where the jags survive but with a vastly depleted warrior caste if their new khan decides: hey those freeborns are all right! And demands that the number of Sibkos that are produced by tripled does the khan need to get any sort of approval from theur own clan council or that of the grand council?

[Talen5000]

In a situation where the jags survive but with a vastly depleted warrior caste if their new khan decides: hey those freeborns are all right! And demands that the number of Sibkos that are produced by tripled does the khan need to get any sort of approval from theur own clan council or that of the grand council?

No. If they don't like a decision, they have the possible option of a Trial of Refusal if they can argue they are affected, or a Trial of Greivance if they just don't like the decision.

But the Khan is the Khan.

[Archangel]

Of course they would still need to figure out how to build enough machines for all the new warriors given their limited resources (even if they do merge with the Blood Spirits).

[Talen5000]

Of course they would still need to figure out how to build enough machines for all the new warriors given their limited resources (even if they do merge with the Blood Spirits).

 The SLDF didn't do a great job razing Huntresses factories,  they had other worlds, had the option of Trialling for new machines and would have salvage options on over a thousand Mechs. It is fairly likely their bottleneck would have been pilots.

In which case, they have the possible option of opening up new Trials for Mechwarriors who had previously tested down to civilian castes or even expanding their use of freebirths.

[solmanian]

It would pretty unclanlike to help the jags. If anything we're more likely to see the other clans ganging up and ripping them apart.

[Sjhernan3060]

Yes I should have been more clear that in this scenario the spirits are acting out if self interest

[Archangel]

The SLDF didn't do a great job razing Huntresses factories,  they had other worlds, had the option of Trialling for new machines and would have salvage options on over a thousand Mechs. It is fairly likely their bottleneck would have been pilots.w

In which case, they have the possible option of opening up new Trials for Mechwarriors who had previously tested down to civilian castes or even expanding their use of freebirths.

Factories are nice but pretty useless when they run out of raw materials.  It has been clearly stated that the Jaguars were running out of the ores needed to manufacture BattleMechs and this shortage is the official reason that the Jaguar's scientist caste developed the ProtoMech.

[Talen5000]

Factories are nice but pretty useless when they run out of raw materials.  It has been clearly stated that the Jaguars were running out of the ores needed to manufacture BattleMechs and this shortage is the official reason that the Jaguar's scientist caste developed the ProtoMech.

And they'd have over 1000 Mechs available for salvage and the possibility of ProtoMechs plus whatever was still left of their own forces plus whatever they had in caches plus whatever they had on other worlds plus whatever they could Trial for.

[Sjhernan3060]

Did all the Protomechs get put down in the initial serpent attack? Did they coordinate at all with Russou Howell?