Author Topic: Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity  (Read 5247 times)

tassa_kay

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Re: Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity
« Reply #90 on: 24 March 2024, 15:04:57 »
but returning to beachhhead1985's point--the Clans sort for horribly abusive behavior at all levels already.  We know (bona fides: studied psych and education) that physical violence as a punitive tactic, especially against children, causes problems with violence, impulse control, and IIRC even cognitive impairment.  Interpersonal intimacy and trust, sexual or platonic, are necessary for human mental health in almost all circumstances.  The constant competitive and zero-sum environment most Clan warriors live in is a fertile breeding ground for PTSD and anxiety disorders.  Either the Clans don't care that they're making unstable, paranoid, trauma cases, or the universe has been written in such a way where, in at least one way, the Clans are right.  In the Nova Cat general we were discussing the Mystic caste, and my takeaway was that their training would create feral children, trauma responses wrapped in a human form, or absolute sociopaths.  Instead we have traumatized and callous but largely stable individuals who attain almost supernatural analytical abilities from their ordeal.
I think that in general, the psychological ramifications of Clan life are just left unexplored so we can have technologically advanced fascist furries in giant robots stunting on/getting stomped by (depending on the POV of the story) foreign-culture cosplaying feudal empires in less technologically advanced giant robots.  Hence why I like exploring it, it's an open field, but I don't think it'll translate into the fiction anytime soon.

Malvina Hazen's entire character arc has been exactly what you're saying here: her horrendous abuse during her childhood years in the sibko shaped her into the absolute monster she became. "A Rending of Falcons" also shows a scene on Sudeten of a bunch of sibko kids kicking and stomping on one they'd singled out, while their minders stood by and did nothing.
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

parable

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Re: Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity
« Reply #91 on: 24 March 2024, 15:09:56 »
Malvina Hazen's entire character arc has been exactly what you're saying here: her horrendous abuse during her childhood years in the sibko shaped her into the absolute monster she became. "A Rending of Falcons" also shows a scene on Sudeten of a bunch of sibko kids kicking and stomping on one they'd singled out, while their minders stood by and did nothing.

Again, I really need to read more of the novels, but I only started about a year or two ago.  So sibko training is a broken system: meant to produce elite, fanatically devoted warriors, actually produces feral sociopaths.  But since it's sociopaths all the way down to Nicolas Kerensky, no one sees the problem.  A wonder that there aren't more Malvinas Hazen out there.
Kaldumeir Nova Cat, Abtakha Mechwarrior of Clan Nova Cat, late of the Draconis Combine.

Fire Scorpion IIC

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Re: Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity
« Reply #92 on: 24 March 2024, 15:14:55 »
That's... not what feudalism is in the BattleTech universe. Like, at all. I suggest reading page 4 of Era Digest: Age of War to get the actual definition of feudalism as it pertains to this setting, because it's not at all what you're suggesting.

There is exactly zero evidence that BattleTech's neo-feudalism has resulted in normalized, societal-level sexual abuse. In fact, the only non-Clan canon examples I can think of off the top of my head that involve sexual abuse (Caleb's rape of Danai, Daoshen's incestuous abuse of Ilsa) are very, very frowned upon in-universe and not considered "the norm".

Let's put it in more practical terms:

While on paper every girl/boy of inappropriate age is fully in their right to refuse advances of some geezer with surname Davion, in practice they would be expected to simply close their eyes and think of Federated Suns

Feel free to insert any faction or ruling house of your choosing

People who own entire planets/systems/interstellar nations are not free of debauchery and corruption

Even a random nobody in a white van IRL is not free of it

This is not Clan issue or Battletech issue, it's human society issue

We can go digging deeper into this but in that case everyone should keep in mind that ensuing fallout will be hitting all factions available






Fire Scorpion IIC

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Re: Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity
« Reply #93 on: 24 March 2024, 15:17:32 »
Again, I really need to read more of the novels, but I only started about a year or two ago.  So sibko training is a broken system: meant to produce elite, fanatically devoted warriors, actually produces feral sociopaths.  But since it's sociopaths all the way down to Nicolas Kerensky, no one sees the problem.  A wonder that there aren't more Malvinas Hazen out there.

Do we have any fiction about sibkos that are not about Jade Falcons? We had some about Jaguars and Trent but that was usual Jaguar stuff





tassa_kay

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Re: Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity
« Reply #94 on: 24 March 2024, 15:31:28 »
Let's put it in more practical terms:

While on paper every girl/boy of inappropriate age is fully in their right to refuse advances of some geezer with surname Davion, in practice they would be expected to simply close their eyes and think of Federated Suns

Feel free to insert any faction or ruling house of your choosing

People who own entire planets/systems/interstellar nations are not free of debauchery and corruption

Even a random nobody in a white van IRL is not free of it

This is not Clan issue or Battletech issue, it's human society issue

We can go digging deeper into this but in that case everyone should keep in mind that ensuing fallout will be hitting all factions available

Yes, sexual abuse occurs in the setting. No one is saying otherwise. But that's not what was being talked about, and I think the whataboutism here just misses the point (and in fact is largely untrue). The Clans as a culture and society are radically and fundamentally different than the rest of the setting, and that's especially true when it comes to matters of sex and procreation. Outside of the occasional depraved pirate state or what-not, we simply don't see what you're suggesting on a societal level with the Inner Sphere, and in fact have canon examples to the contrary. This is definitely not a case of "both sides are the same", and it's silly to suggest otherwise.
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it." - Mike Tyson

My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
Favorite Factions: Capellan Confederation • Clan Blood Spirit • Clan Smoke Jaguar • Clan Hell's Horses • Raven Alliance • Fronc Reaches • Rim Worlds Republic • Magistracy of Canopus
Favorite Characters: Malvina Hazen • Kali Liao • Katherine Steiner-Davion • Anastasia Kerensky • Danai Liao-Centrella • Karianna Schmitt • Lady Death • Tara Campbell • Katana Tormark
Favorite Units: The Golden Ordun • Wolf Hunters • 1st Horde Cluster • 1st Rasalhague Bears • Thuggee Warrior Houses • Hikage • Raptor Keshik • Kara's Scorchers • 1st Star Sentinels

Bedwyr

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Re: Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity
« Reply #95 on: 24 March 2024, 15:54:50 »
Locked for moderator review. We'll get back to you.

EDIT: After moderator discussion, this thread is going to remain locked. Here's why:

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The thread was nominally staying within BT fiction, but touching so frequently on real-world hot button issues, we could not let it be. There are ways to get real world discussion into the forums through mod and admin cooperation, but this discussion is not a good candidate for that.

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Much of the content was skipping along the lake of the obscene and on the whole was getting really gross and showed poor judgment for a public forum under CGL about a fun big stompy robot game forum. Not classy.


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« Last Edit: 28 March 2024, 16:07:10 by Bedwyr »
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