Author Topic: Aviation Pictures: How expensive can a fifth generation thread be? (Read 144509 times)

DaveMac · « **Reply #570 on:** 09 July 2020, 02:23:52 »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on 07 July 2020, 14:51:16

One of the UKs refuelling Voyager craft also acts as a VIP transport. It recently got a new paint job

Only one winner between visibility/crew safety versus politics/ego

Weirdo · « **Reply #571 on:** 09 July 2020, 07:35:25 »

I imagine the paint itself is really expensive. After all, you need stuff that will go on fully opaque with as thin a coat as possible to avoid adding hundreds of pounds to the aircraft's weight (and ask anyone up in the minis forum how hard it is to get certain colors to look right with only one coat), while also going on perfectly smooth to reduce drag, AND also being tough enough to withstand the full range of harsh sunlight, temperature/moisture extremes, and high-speed dust and microdebris that all aircraft are expected to operate it. Games Workshop may be a rip-off, but I suspect even folks used to such extortion would suffer more than a little bit of sticker shock if they ever had to spring for any quantity of aviation paint.

Daryk · « **Reply #572 on:** 09 July 2020, 07:37:29 »

They were recently featured in the Economist a second time, and based on that article, they just might be in the actual airplane painting market soon, at least for a corporate jet or two...

Weirdo · « **Reply #573 on:** 09 July 2020, 07:41:42 »

I wonder what kind of moronic names they'll give their avpaint colors...

Daryk · « **Reply #574 on:** 09 July 2020, 07:42:30 »

No bets there! :D

Elmoth · « **Reply #575 on:** 09 July 2020, 07:57:30 »

Imperial White (the most common color/basecoat) is quite a given

Weirdo · « **Reply #576 on:** 09 July 2020, 10:12:13 »

Eh...not pompous or edgy enough.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #577 on:** 09 July 2020, 12:57:06 »

Quote from: Elmoth on 09 July 2020, 07:57:30

Imperial White

Quote from: Weirdo on 09 July 2020, 10:12:13

Eh...not pompous or edgy enough.

I dunno, imperical evidence suggests otherwise :D

chanman · « **Reply #578 on:** 09 July 2020, 15:43:26 »

Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 09 July 2020, 12:57:06

I dunno, imperical evidence suggests otherwise :D

Someone's going to get a visit from the Ordo Punnicus.

But they should paint it red because it makes it go faster. ;)

Elmoth · « **Reply #579 on:** 10 July 2020, 05:02:12 »

Norwegian airlines tends to agree with the Ork feel, yup

grimlock1 · « **Reply #580 on:** 10 July 2020, 07:50:08 »

Quote from: Weirdo on 09 July 2020, 07:35:25

I imagine the paint itself is really expensive. After all, you need stuff that will go on fully opaque with as thin a coat as possible to avoid adding hundreds of pounds to the aircraft's weight (and ask anyone up in the minis forum how hard it is to get certain colors to look right with only one coat), while also going on perfectly smooth to reduce drag, AND also being tough enough to withstand the full range of harsh sunlight, temperature/moisture extremes, and high-speed dust and microdebris that all aircraft are expected to operate it. Games Workshop may be a rip-off, but I suspect even folks used to such extortion would suffer more than a little bit of sticker shock if they ever had to spring for any quantity of aviation paint.

I used to volunteer with the crew that restored static display aircraft at China Lake NAWS. We used the same polyurethane paint that the active squadrons used. I don't know how expensive it was. It clogged guns pretty readily and pretty much laughed at solvents, short of MEK. On the other hand, cleaning up the mixing buckets was easy. Wait a week. It didn't form a strong bond with whatever plastic is preferred for 5 gallon buckets. I watched a guy pull an inch thick disk of the stuff out of the bottom of a bucket with no problem. I could barely cut that stuff with a knife!

Ben Rich's book, Stealth mentions a conversation where he suggested painting the A-12 black to increase its thermal emissivity, and keep the interior cooler. Kelly Johnson grumbled that they were trying get the weight down, and here's Ben trying to add 600 lbs of paint.

I bring that up because when we were restoring an AH-1J at China lake , I found at least three different paint colors as I was sanding. Between that poly paint's sheer disdain for most solvents and all the little nibs and nubs on an aircraft, I have to imagine most planes just get the old paint scuffed, and new stuff right over it several times in their life. I shudder to think how many coats of paint might be on some of the B-52 out there...

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #581 on:** 10 July 2020, 14:59:38 »

Quote from: grimlock1 on 10 July 2020, 07:50:08

I shudder to think how many coats of paint might be on some of the B-52 out there...

Fordite armor plating perhaps?

DOC_Agren · « **Reply #582 on:** 10 July 2020, 19:51:56 »

Quote from: grimlock1 on 10 July 2020, 07:50:08

I shudder to think how many coats of paint might be on some of the B-52 out there...

don't worry it will keep flying, might add structural support

CrossfirePilot · « **Reply #583 on:** 11 July 2020, 23:36:10 »

That's actually the big driver for the engine upgrades. Cheaper to re-engine than to beadblast 70 years of paint off.

I am Belch II · « **Reply #584 on:** 12 July 2020, 03:53:55 »

Watching The Running Man!! Called it the prequel to the Hunger Games to a generation younger....they understood it better.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire · « **Reply #585 on:** 12 July 2020, 15:15:20 »

Wrong thread?

DaveMac · « **Reply #586 on:** 14 July 2020, 09:34:36 »

I had no idea this sort of thing was still out here...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121990112/treasure-trove-of-hidden-historic-planes-including-rare-wwii-mosquito-to-see-the-light?fbclid=IwAR2RMAAFh1je8qp-vQfC3wwyr9GMC02QnY3Y20a27chIMiQElwM9VonPw1Y

God and Davion · « **Reply #587 on:** 14 July 2020, 12:04:09 »

Quote from: DaveMac on 14 July 2020, 09:34:36

I had no idea this sort of thing was still out here...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121990112/treasure-trove-of-hidden-historic-planes-including-rare-wwii-mosquito-to-see-the-light?fbclid=IwAR2RMAAFh1je8qp-vQfC3wwyr9GMC02QnY3Y20a27chIMiQElwM9VonPw1Y

Awesome.

worktroll · « **Reply #588 on:** 14 July 2020, 17:56:52 »

On one hand, it's amazing that these treasures have survived.

On the other hand, it's alarming that they only survived by luck. I know a second hand book dealer, who got asked to come over & value a deceased collection. The previous owner was known for buying up all sorts of rare sci-fi & fantasy books from the 50s & 60s, so there was much interest. When the guy I know got there, it turned out he'd put them all in cardboard boxes in an outside shed, on a property outside the city. Between a leaky roof and rodents, pretty much everything was ruined. They did salvage some lightly water & mould damaged first edition Lensmen novels (amongst other things) from near the centre of the piles, plus some other stuff, but the cost of restoration/stabilisation was going to eat most of the potential sale price.

truetanker · « **Reply #589 on:** 14 July 2020, 18:18:59 »

Oh the horror, I got two and a half full collections of original first editions of A Princess of Mars series by the same author of Conan fame, sad only books three and five of Conan collection. They were in a stag huntsman cabin, very dusty and still with cloth covers and those weird color photoplates.

TT

DaveMac · « **Reply #590 on:** 22 July 2020, 02:50:08 »

Thats not going to be easy or cheap to restore

http://warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/the-b-25-history-project-acquires-rare-8-gun-b-25-strafer-nose.html

Colt Ward · « **Reply #591 on:** 22 July 2020, 11:06:12 »

You know, I kept looking for the plane to be in the area, but with Covid I do not think the old warbirds are touring this year. My kid is old enough to enjoy seeing it, but I guess I will just have to wait until next year. He loves being on the flight path for the local small airport they have had them fly out of . . . its just surreal to hear a B-24's engines roaring as it comes right over your house for landing.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #592 on:** 22 July 2020, 12:21:39 »

A B-17 and a B-24 making a 100-foot thunder run overhead was how the air show announced it was in town. Never forget that sound of those engines.

Fat Guy · « **Reply #593 on:** 22 July 2020, 22:18:28 »

The Blue Angels are getting a new "Fat Albert".

I am Belch II · « **Reply #594 on:** 23 July 2020, 14:20:17 »

Quote from: Fat Guy on 22 July 2020, 22:18:28

The Blue Angels are getting a new "Fat Albert".

New more updated model of the C130 and a updated paint job

hoosierhick · « **Reply #595 on:** 27 July 2020, 17:39:30 »

Continuing on with the Blue Angels theme...one of these things is not like the others...

The Blues have received their first F-18E. https://theaviationist.com/2020/07/27/the-blue-angels-have-received-their-first-f-a-18e-super-hornet/

nerd · « **Reply #596 on:** 27 July 2020, 22:48:18 »

And you can see the difference between the Super Hornet and the Legacy Hornet. The easy part is the intakes, but the Super Hornet is noticeably taller than the Legacy here, but that could be from the angle. Right now, the only other remaining Legacy Hornets in the Navy are in Reserve Squadrons VFA-204 and VFC-12. VFA-204 is set up to be an additional tactical squadron, while VFC-12 is an adversary squadron.

The Marines still operate 10 squadrons of Legacy Hornets, though.

Fat Guy · « **Reply #597 on:** 28 July 2020, 06:52:24 »

I imagine when the Air Force phases out the F-16 the Thunderbirds will probably get some of the LRIP F-35As that were deemed too expensive to bring up to current standard.

That or T-7A Red Hawks.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #598 on:** 28 July 2020, 15:11:04 »

i suspect by the time the USAF retires the F-16, there won't be any LRIP F-35A's around. the F-16 looks to have the staying power of the BUFF right now.

grimlock1 · « **Reply #599 on:** 28 July 2020, 16:37:22 »

Quote from: glitterboy2098 on 28 July 2020, 15:11:04

i suspect by the time the USAF retires the F-16, there won't be any LRIP F-35A's around. the F-16 looks to have the staying power of the BUFF right now.

That and the M16 platform. I'll wager a steak dinner that the DoD will be using an AR-pattern weapon until we have freakin' laser rifles. An even then, it will use AR-style ergonomics. :-)