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BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Articles => Topic started by: Kidd on 03 August 2018, 22:36:55

Title: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Kidd on 03 August 2018, 22:36:55
Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II

(https://s22.postimg.cc/4mlc7qcxd/s-l640.jpg)

INTRODUCTION

In the beginning FASA created the Marauder and Catapult. Now the Marauder and Catapult were Inner Sphere Mechs, and the Spirit of Plot was hovering over the Fourth Succession War. And the Spirit said, “Let there be Clans!” and there was the Mad Cat, or to use its proper, non-surat freebirth dezgra Tainted nomenclature, the Timber Wolf.

And FASA saw that the Timber Wolf was good, and called it “iconic”.

Now the Microsoft Games was crafty, and went to FASA, and said “Should you keep using the Clan name Timber Wolf? Or Mad Cat? After all, you did say it was supposed to have the missile racks of the Catapult, and the arms of a Marauder, so really it ought to be Mad Cat more than Timber Wolf. What’s in a name?”

And FASA said to Microsoft, “You have a point. It was called the Timber Wolf in Mechwarrior 2 though. Will it confuse fans if we call it differently in our new video game?”

“You will most certainly not confuse fans,” said Microsoft to FASA. “For when we put the Mad Cat in Mechwarrior 4 Vengeance, we shall also have the Mad Cat Mark II, which shall be bigger, and cooler, and henceforth fans will call them all Mad Cats.”

When FASA saw that the Mad Cat Mark II was good and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining new fans, FASA took it and gave it to Technical Readout 3067.

Then the eyes of FASA were opened, and they realised the name Timber Wolf is much better, and they made more marks and models of Mad Cats to cover their shame.

And so did sin enter Battletech through one computer game, and the Mad Cat Mk II through that computer game, so also the Mad Cat Mk II was passed on to many more games, and begat the Clicky blasphemy that was…

(https://s22.postimg.cc/wmpfsetcx/MCMk2.png)

DUNH DUNH DUNHHHHH...!

HISTORY

The Mad Cat Mk II did actually arise out of the Refusal War, in a way. Sensing a sales opportunity to the wrecked Toumans of Clans Jade Falcon and Wolf, the Diamond Sharks designed and built the Mk II, probably with the Wolves as their primary target customer. Unfortunately the Wolves did not bite. Perhaps they were happy enough with their Gargoyles and Dire Wolves, weren’t quite as desperate as the Sharks imagined, or simply were wary of Sharks bearing trade contracts.

Neither were the Falcons interested, perhaps because they had their own Turkina facility. The Sharks shrugged, and in true entrepreneurial spirit, offered the Mk II to certain parties considered nominal enemies – Comstar, the Federated Commonwealth, Draconis Combine, and, very quietly, the Abjured Clans Nova Cat and Wolf-in-Exile. All these parties were gagging for Clan tech of any kind, with the latter two especially reliant on Shark produce to fill out the Assault slots in their shattered Toumans.

Thus the Mad Cat Mk II found itself a place in the Inner Sphere. But for all that the design seems to have pleased its recipients, does the Mk II have the same impact that its smaller ancestor did? Perhaps not quite, but piggybacking on its more illustrious forebear seems to have won the basic chassis a certain measure of glory, as we shall see.

VARIANTS

Mad Cat Mk II, 3062 – The basic model sets the tone for most of the Mk II variants. 90 tons moving 4/6/3 on a Clan XL engine give the Mk II standard Clan Assault mobility with a small burst of jump juice to hop over obstacles, scale cliffs, and reposition itself to deal with would-be backstabbers. Armour stands at about 89% of maximum, making the Mk II a little thin in my opinion. I would have preferred at least a little more Clan Ferro so as to render the side torsos and arms proof from breaching after just two Clan ER PPC or Gauss shots – but it is adequate.

Let’s move on to the shooty bits – the Sharks took the opportunity to dispose of a cache of dusty old guns, and equipped the Mk II with a pair of oversized Gauss Rifles and 16 slugs apiece, backed up by a pair of LRM-10s with 12 volleys each, and four ER Medium lasers. I approve the symmetry of design and obvious callback to the Timber Wolf, but the LRMs could have done with a little more ammo. Equipped with 14 double heatsinks, it is clear despite the long-ranged primary guns that the Mk II is meant to close in with the enemy and bring its lasers to bear, to maximise the benefit of its cooling system.

This weapon combination is not unfamiliar to veterans of the early 3060s. Similar Gauss-ML Assault combinations abound, such as the IS’s Thunder Hawk, Pillager, Gunslinger etc. However the Mk II’s Clantech gives it little extras like LRMs, better lasers, and of course a smaller and faster XL Fusion Engine, and skilled Mechwarriors would know to leverage these little edges to give the Mk II the upper hand over IS opponents. Likewise the payoff for Clan warriors would be to close in quickly and aggressively on opponents to bring the Mk II’s full firepower to bear.

Efficient and effective, if a little cheddary, the Mad Cat Mk II served unassumingly in the Nova Cat and Exiled Wolf second-line Galaxies, but is probably prized by IS commanders fortunate enough to get their hands on one.

Mad Cat Mk II 2, 3069 – Probably a callback to the Timber Wolf D, the second Mk II is a close-combat variant that switches two ERMLs, the LRMs and one Gauss rifle for four Streak SRM-4s and two tons of ammo, plus an LBX AC/20 with a measly 10 rounds of ammo. The Clantech LBX is entirely self-contained in the left arm, unlike the bulky IS weapon, and can hence flip backwards to scare off potential backstabbers. The loss of two ERMLs is unfortunate, but if you’re fighting in the proverbial phone booth, going up against vehicles, or subscribe to the Crit-Seeking school of Mech combat, it’s hard to say no to the Mk II 2.

Unfortunately only the Mk II and Mk II 2 saw service in the great conflagration of the Jihad, which is a pity, because come the 3080s a couple of very useful variants make their appearance.

Mad Cat Mk II 3, 3082 – The first of these is the Mk II 3. Based on the original Mk II, the Mk II 3 restores the LRMs and laser battery but swaps the two Gauss Rifles for their Hyper Assault descendants, HAG-30s, and a full 16 rounds of fire for each. Unfortunately the HAGs are much hotter than the Gausses, plus the Mk II loses the jump jets and two double heat sinks to make the switch possible. Hence pilots of the Mk II 3 need to remember it doesn’t handle quite like the Mk II original, perhaps being more of a long-gunner until those LRMs run out. A running alpha strike would trigger the first shutdown check rather than merely warm the cockpit a tad.

The head mounts a Light Active Probe, for little real effect if any in regular gameplay and little apparent reason other than to suit the thingamajiggy drawn atop the Mk II’s head in the art. Almost anything else here would have been preferable – somebody should have told the Sharks what wondrous feats can be performed with a Small Laser on a Timber Wolf… The II 3 also more-or-less maxes out the armour with a decent layout, save that the front side torsos still carry only 29 points each, which you might tell triggers my OCD no end.

The HAGs mark the Mk II 3 as a product designed to gain the attention of the Horses and Ravens. However it seems not to have gained much traction with anybody other than the Sharks themselves, suggesting a less-than-successful product launch. But with HAG-30s available to these as well as the Bears and Exiled Wolves, it would not beggar belief to see a handful of Mk II 3s in the Toumans of these Clans.

Mad Cat Mk II (Enhanced), 3083 – Around 3080, the Sharks noticed that sales of the Mk II were dropping off alarmingly. Though not described in detail, I presume this might have had something to do with the Mk II’s erstwhile loyal customers, the Exiled Wolves and Abjured Cats, setting up shop with their respective Hellstar and Sphinx lines building Assault Mechs tailored to their preferences… not to mention the Horses’ Cygnus, Bears’ Ryoken II and Falcons’ Jupiter. The Sharks decided this simply would not do.

The Sharks’ trading post on Itabaiana, previously the source of much-needed Homeworld equipment to the Nova Cats (and probable brokerage site for illicit trade with the Bears) was apparently expanded to a full enclave with extensive manufacturing facilities post-Jihad. Stepping off the Itabaiana lines came the Mad Cat Mk II Enhanced, which seems to have succeeded in gaining an appreciation amongst the IS Clans that its ancestor didn’t.

And no wonder. The main showpiece of the Enhanced is its stylishly-sculpted shell of Hardened Armour, increasing its effective protection to 160% of the Mk II. Though the Enhanced is the first of the Mk II series in the slow Assault Mech role, moving slightly slower across level terrain at 4/5/4, it does change the Clan Assault paradigm; the Jupiter et al can mount as many guns as they like, but at this time, only the Enhanced could offer better survivability…

…naturally coming at the cost of firepower. The LRM-10s and a pair of ERMLs remain, but the Gausses and the other pair of ERMLs are replaced by a pair of ER Large Pulse Lasers. I can think of other, more traditional weapons that might have served instead of the new-fangled ER pulsers. 18 DHSs allow the Enhanced to fire in all sorts of combinations up to firing everything except one ER LPL and staying reasonably cool. This is significantly less firepower than the original Mk II not to mention giving up any chance at a headcap; at long range that is an approximate firepower reduction of 20% (with due allowance for the LPLs -1 bonus) while at short range the loss in potential damage is about 45%.

In summary, the Enhanced out-armours the Original by 60%, and the Original out-shoots the Enhanced by vaguely the same (incidentally, this is borne out by their respective Alpha Strike stats). I suppose it’s really a judgement call whichever one prefers. One way or another it appears the IS Clans sat up and took notice, with every Clan except the Jade Falcons picking up a few units.

Mad Cat Mk II 4, 3090 – Debuting a little later (and only available in Record Sheets 3145 NTNU), the Mk II 4 is an old-skool throwback to the original. Like the II 3 it moves 4/6/4 and maximises armour but shifts 1 point forward on each side torso (at last!) to make them just proof against double Clan ER PPC or Gauss hits, and again carries that superfluous Light Active Probe – so no, the Sharks still haven’t learned about the Jade Phoenix…

20 double heat sinks power the II 4’s main weaponry, namely double over-under ER Large Lasers on both arms, supported by LRM-15 shoulder racks and an exceedingly generous (for Clans) 24 salvoes each. This might suggest the possibility of using alternative munitions – remember Clan systems can also fire Anti-Radiation, Heat-Seeking, Smoke, Swarm and Thunder LRMs. Unlike the other Mk IIs heretofore, the Mk II 4 is unaccountably equipped with Lower Arm Actuators, and hence cannot flip backwards and deal with backstabbers.

While a 4-3-3 pattern can be made with the ER LLs at very long ranges, and closer in firing three ER LLs and one LRM-15 makes for highly sustainable damage output, unfortunately I cannot see much that really promotes the II 4 over the original. I can think of a couple of Clan Heavies that perform better, to be frank. Perhaps the II 4 is meant to fight in extended battles – if so, it should stick to fencing at long range.

Mad Cat Mk II 5, 3109 – The Mk II 5’s chassis is similar to the Mk II 4, though with only 14 double heat sinks, but packs in 6 Improved Jump Jets to make a real flyer of an Assault Mech. Armed with only a Gauss Rifle with 16 shots, an Improved Heavy Large Laser and Improved Heavy Medium Laser, this is clearly a model for the tight confines of urban combat. The modus operandi is clearly to use those IJJs to constantly position oneself behind or out of reach of an enemy and savage rear armour with hard-hitting single shots.

I’m not convinced it’s really a workable strategy to trade away fully half your firepower for. Especially against Clantech which can easily amass banks of ERMLs and HMLs to accomplish similar damage output in smaller, faster Mechs. Who wins the backstabbing game then? I’d like to hear the opinions of any who’ve used this model.

Mad Cat Mk II 6, 3139 – Finally, we have the Mk II 6, the Sharks’ latest entry in the series and all poised to wade into the latest conflagration all guns firing and sporting the absolute latest in Clantech… and that is the brand-new Harjel III Repair System, taking Elemental suit repair systems to ever greater heights. Harjel III is simple and straightforward; every time the protected location suffers an armour hit, that location repairs a total of 4 points of damage at the end of the turn, up to the limit of the installed armour.

As the Mk II 6 carries near-maximum armour on all locations (minus just about 1.5 tons or 29 points) and Harjel III on all torsos and limbs, the result is a redefinition of the word “zombie” to “self-healing zombie”, and if that phrase alone doesn’t scare the pants off you, it… well… should. A location shot with an IS PPC will heal 60% of the shot. An IS Medium Laser or LRM volley, 80%. Harjel III laughs at SRMs and LBX Cluster. If your shots scatter as badly as mine does in gameplay, you can spin up your trusty Davionista RAC-5 and spit a quarter-ton of shells at the Mk II 6, and watch each round land on separate locations and do no more damage than an LBX-5.

“Nuke it from orbit, it’s the only way to make sure” must really have been a thought crossing the mind of more than one of the Mk II 6’s opponents, especially the Steiners and Mariks who probably watched these things lumbering unstoppably at them like some mechanical horror movie monster. Alright, to be honest it’s not really that bad, but it does take significant amounts of concentrated fire to bring down this beast. Perhaps the real danger it poses is that while you’re busy focusing fire on the Mk II 6, its Starmates are busy focusing fire on your far-more-squishy units.

Like the Mk II Enhanced, the Mk II 6 sacrifices firepower for this protection and carries just 2 ER PPCs and 4 ER MLs. 20 double heat sinks mean you should start firing the moment those Clan headcappers are in range, aim to come closer and switch in the lasers and a PPC.

Notable Pilots

(https://s22.postimg.cc/8679xxkwh/Mad_Cat_Mk_II.png)

Why, none other than Star Colonel Aisa Thastus of New Exford, Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries, naturally. Once a vicious Clan marauder, now our vicious Clan marauder – perhaps a little ironically, considering the Mad Cat Mk II’s place in the Clantech export market.

Final Thoughts

In a way, it’s fascinating to see the ways the Mad Cat Mk II has evolved over the years. It’s almost a shame that the chassis isn’t an OmniMech, because each different variant plays a distinct role – the Original is the disgustingly min-maxed 3060s Gauss-ERML combo we all know and have a complex love-hate relationship with, then we have the Close Combat, HAG and Defence (aka Hardened Armour) variants, then the ERLL, IJJ and the Really Very Advanced Tech variants. Many of these require a shift in gameplay style to various degrees.

At the end of the day, perhaps the best measure of a Mech is its “Fun Quotient”, (though some might say only winning is fun), and regardless of how min-maxed or not a design is, the more fun you have with it, the better. And I can say that while I may have my preferences (which I think I have made obvious enough), nearly every variant of the Mad Cat Mk II lineup is fun to play in different ways. On that score I’d give it an 8.5/10 at least.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Tai Dai Cultist on 03 August 2018, 22:48:44
TBH there was too much stressing the Timberwolf nomenclature.  It's a Mad Cat MkII.  Even the Clans call it that.  Between that and the complaint about Clickytech you already lost me in your intro.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Kitsune413 on 03 August 2018, 22:50:16
I always like to add the bread crumb trail about the Mad Cat MK II.

After the Jaguars were destroyed by the Inner Sphere Clan Diamond Shark managed to get the plans for the Warhawk.

They never built Warhawks though.

What they did do however is produce the Mad Cat MK II in record time.

One might notice similarities.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: SteelRaven on 04 August 2018, 00:27:56
A decent mech that never got out from under the shadow of the Timber Wolf.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Kojak on 04 August 2018, 02:16:42
As you might guess, I'm a fan (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=227.msg1386174#msg1386174).
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Fragger on 04 August 2018, 03:22:57
I'm using the 5 a lot in my Bansons Raiders force. It's actually fine for it's BV, just play to it's strenghts. It is a medium mobility mech with a heavies firepower and assault class armor. So bully mediums like an assault, and hop around assaults and heavies like a medium.
It is also cool to relocatr so much firepower and armor so quickly. Try to fool your enemies slower elements into chasing you and then just hop away. You have the armor for it.
I don't like the gauss because of it's minimum range, but I can live with it.

And if everything else fails, you can always go for a DFA.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: marauder648 on 04 August 2018, 04:18:30
As you might guess, I'm a fan (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=227.msg1386174#msg1386174).

Oh so that was you who commissioned that, its an amazing piece of art! :D
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: marauder648 on 04 August 2018, 08:01:39
And a darn good article on a formidable and impressive looking Mech.  The 6 seems like a monster and the Enhanced is tough as old boots (and looks very nice too!) and the other variants sure are interesting.  The 6 and Enhanced fix this Mech's biggest flaw (in my eyes) in that its protection is at best adequate, and if it wants to get in to use its ER mediums, its going to be giving and taking a lot of fire.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Arkansas Warrior on 04 August 2018, 08:31:44
I like it.  Fun top-end mech for an IS unit that can meet up with some SharkFox traders.  I don’t really get the author’s opinion that the original is optimized; it seems like a normal canon intentionally-lesss-than perfect design to me.  I mean, sure it’s a good and enjoyable mech, but just think of all the tonnage you’d free up switching the gausses for CERPPCs.  That would be optimized.  As it is it’s quite solid, but a hair thin skinned and ammunition-dependent, and a bit wasteful tonnage-wise.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 August 2018, 10:03:40
I've seen the Mad Cat Mk II standard used a couple of times and it's always under-performed.  The firepower it brings for its BV is underwhelming compared to other Clan assaults of similar price.  Going by the weapon load, it's actually pretty similar to a Gunslinger IIC, just with added missiles.  I'd love to play with some of the Dark Age configurations if I ever get a chance.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 August 2018, 12:02:17
I have used the E on table top . . . which was fun since it was the first time my group had run into Hardened Armor and my wife was using her Great Turtle with Hardened Armor on the other side.  While the ER Pulse would IMO have been better served by plain ERLL & maybe MPL under on each arm, it works since it introduces some advanced tech why not trot out some more?

Yes, the 4 has that annoying bit about the arms!  WHY!  I am also trying to remember if it has DHS in the legs, if not WHY!  As a big believer in the cERLL its my kind of design, I have not used it but want to, and its been a while since I used the mini . . . hmm . . .

Did Aisa Thastus ever make it into canon?
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Kidd on 04 August 2018, 13:02:18

but just think of all the tonnage you’d free up switching the gausses for CERPPCs.  That would be optimized.

I tried. You run into heat problems. That's the advantage of the Mk II and I think the reason why its BV is high. Its sustained firepower can match other common Clan Assaults, though it loses out if those Mechs start pushing the heat curve. That is why I compared it to IS Gauss-ML Assaults - thematically it is a very Spheroid Mech, indeed something of a Gunslinger IIC.


Did Aisa Thastus ever make it into canon?
I'm not sure, that bit's in there for fun cuz I can't think of any notable Mk II pilots at all.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 August 2018, 13:35:09
The Mad Cat Mk II is one of the few mechs I've seen get killed by taking 6 pilot injuries in one round.

There was a guy I used to play against who had absolutely horrible luck in that regard.  In this instance, we were doing a Clan Star v Star fight.  I took a Ghost Bear star vs his Nova Cat star.

I charged my Kodiak right up into the face of his Mad Cat Mk II and unloaded.  Critted a gauss rifle, critted an LRM ammo bin, hit his head with an SRM, and caused some leg crits that caused him to fall- he failed the PSR to avoid pilot injury.

Anyway, I don't mind the GRs on the standard, but it really wouldn't have much heat issues if it switched to PPCs: with 16 tons to work with it could easily install enough heat sinks to keep cool.  But the 5 is the one that I'd really like to have a PPC instead of a GR- with all the mass eaten up by the IJJs, it could use more tonnage for extra secondary weapons.  Also, to have some weapons that don't explode.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Nightsong on 04 August 2018, 15:08:41
The Mad Cat Mk II is one of the few mechs I've seen get killed by taking 6 pilot injuries in one round.

There was a guy I used to play against who had absolutely horrible luck in that regard.  In this instance, we were doing a Clan Star v Star fight.  I took a Ghost Bear star vs his Nova Cat star.

I charged my Kodiak right up into the face of his Mad Cat Mk II and unloaded.  Critted a gauss rifle, critted an LRM ammo bin, hit his head with an SRM, and caused some leg crits that caused him to fall- he failed the PSR to avoid pilot injury.

Ouch. Ammo feedback’s a real sow. Was the pilot even conscious when they turned into cockpit paint?
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 August 2018, 15:49:18
Technically, yes, since it all happened in the same phase.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 04 August 2018, 16:11:47
0 to Coma in 10 seconds!
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: SteelRaven on 04 August 2018, 16:18:55
Why you don't charge a Kodiak noted
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 04 August 2018, 17:00:50
Technically, it was more of why you don't stand your ground against a charging Kodiak.  It was hilarious: three mechs were firing on that Kodiak and managed to scrape every bit of armor off its front but the 9 points on the head without going internal anywhere.  And the Kodiak killed two of them.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Firesprocket on 05 August 2018, 00:50:23
TBH there was too much stressing the Timberwolf nomenclature.  It's a Mad Cat MkII.  Even the Clans call it that.  Between that and the complaint about Clickytech you already lost me in your intro.
I am inclined to agree with TDC.  What one thinks of one version of the game or another is irrelevant to review of the mech.  It predisposes the reader from that point out to tune out the rest of the review for better or worse.

A decent mech that never got out from under the shadow of the Timber Wolf.
Its a fairly large shadow that quite a few, if any, in its lineage or derived from can say they successfully escaped.


That being said here are the rest of my thoughts on each.

Base model:  I’ve found the base model good, but if given an alternative, I’ll take something else.  As you stated the arm and torso location can’t take more than one ER PPC or Gauss shot.  When I’m paying 3100+ BV for a mech I want it to last.

There is just a bit too much exploding bits on this design for the cost I’m sinking into it.  I’d rather take a Supernova.  It lacks the head capping ability of a Gauss Rifle, but with a similar armor profile and a standard engine, it has similar damage potential while losing out on a small amount of indirect fire.

MkII 2: Same armor problem and even more exploding bits in the torsos.  I’ve not actually looked at this design closely before, but there is definitely potential.  The amount of sandblasting this thing could do is pretty impressive.  I’m going to take a look at this thing later and see what I can tweak.  It gave me a wonderful idea to test out for the next game I GM.

MKII 3:  This seems like a decent enough design that when paired with a base model would excel.  BV, again, turns me off before I get to the armor bug of the earlier models.

MKII 4:  Not much to say on this.  You are spot on with your review of this version of the MKII.  It seems to me to be IS commander’s wet dream.  60 LRM tubes to lay down, mine fields or IDF and when it is finally out of ammo, 4 ER Large Lasers to clean up what is left still standing while staying at long range.

MKII 5: I’ve used this model before and it is wonderful for its BV and it corrects the issues with the earlier models armor layout.  My opinion of the 4’s weapon load are pretty much the same as Ogre’s, the design should skip the Gauss and go with, at least, 2 ER PPCs.  I’m less critical of the IHLs on the design, but they become redundant if you swap out for ER PPCs .

With all that said, it’s what is there that leads to the low BV.  The only thing I would swap on this design is the IHM Laser for either an ECM or it and the L Probe for a Watchdog.  I don’t think I’ve ever used the IHM laser and the ECM swap makes the BV cheaper!  What it lacks in firepower it makes up in better protection, coast, and mobility.  If you want to go with the firepower the earlier models offer, go with another design.  If you want something that is unique and that your opponent is really going to have to think about where it is going to be at all times, play this Madcat MK II.

MKII 6:  For this thing to be great, you have to do something you don’t want to do and that is take damage.   While the MK5 has a lousy damage curve when compared with others of similar weight class, this design suffers from some odd heat management if you have to jump all over the place.  With that in mind, it’s entertaining to take a few Clan PPC shots early on and then jump behind some hills to regrow you armor.  If there is an environmental factor such as a vacuum or breach roll you have to deal with then this design is easily worth the weapons lost to mount the Harjel system.

Enhanced:  This is one of those designs that throwing too much advanced tech on a design devalues it in my eyes.  The additional armor protection, at least to me, is of minimal benefit.  Large gains are made in the protection of the CT, H, and legs and the weapon damage suffers because of it.
It has enough firepower to be annoying, but not scary. A roll back to LPLs makes sense or changing over to ER PPCs.  The later comes with a modest increase in BV.  It’s deficiency, to a degree, also its serve as its charm.  With low end damage for an assault mech it will likely be the last thing shot out from under you.  Then again if you have 2700+ BV to throw away on a unit, buy something more frightening. 


Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 August 2018, 02:20:14
The frightening part of the E is that its hard to stop . . . you walk forward and just keep firing, and it can reach longer than LPL and its own LRMs.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 August 2018, 10:19:10
Like every other mech with Hardened Armor, the E gets better thanks to the changes that were recently made to Hardened Armor's rules.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Akira213 on 05 August 2018, 13:23:42
I've seen the Mad Cat Mk II standard used a couple of times and it's always under-performed...

This !!
A perfect example why secondline machinery is seen as inferior.
Sorry excuse for a Timber Wolf.
Can't stand it...
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 August 2018, 13:53:39
Lol, secondline equipment is often as good as frontline.

Someone compared it to the Gunslinger, which is pretty apt since they both have Gauss in the arms and MLs to back up . . . the Mad Cat Mk II however is heavier, runs faster and jumps farther.

Comparing it to a Timberwolf is silly . . . question is, does it perform as well as or better than a Executioner or the couple of Blood Asps that jump- like the A or the E.  Interestingly, the E is pretty similar in the loadout if not placement.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 05 August 2018, 14:01:45
First of, I really liked the article. Including the intro.
The old one had none of the newer variants.

Second,
Like every other mech with Hardened Armor, the E gets better thanks to the changes that were recently made to Hardened Armor's rules.
what changes were those?
The mech seems like a solid assault design, though jump jets on a 90 tonner irk me a little. Wasn't there supposedly a RISC design based on it?

Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 August 2018, 14:10:31
Second, what changes were those?

Hardened armor now takes half damage instead of just requiring two damage to fill one bubble.  It's part of the errata for the new printing of TacOps.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 August 2018, 14:18:14
Lol, secondline equipment is often as good as frontline.
Quote

Second-line equipment is in many instances better than front-line.  Omnimechs, especially the FASA ones, often got saddled with rather horrific design compromises.

Quote
Comparing it to a Timberwolf is silly . . . question is, does it perform as well as or better than a Executioner or the couple of Blood Asps that jump- like the A or the E.  Interestingly, the E is pretty similar in the loadout if not placement.

It beats a lot of Gladiator configurations- it's got a little more side torso armor and a little less arm armor, but it isn't saddled with the awfulness that is the Jump Jets and MASC combo.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Kidd on 05 August 2018, 14:50:18

Anyway, I don't mind the GRs on the standard, but it really wouldn't have much heat issues if it switched to PPCs: with 16 tons to work with it could easily install enough heat sinks to keep cool.

You run into crit issues. It's not easy to deliver the same damage profile the Mk II does, unless you go full Hellstar. Even then the Mk II edges out the Hellstar once those ERMLs come into play. The
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 August 2018, 14:52:43
To be honest, the Hellstar's damage profile isn't terribly impressive for a Clan Assault Mech.  It just has the ability to fire four headcappers indefinitely.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 05 August 2018, 17:00:58
Hardened armor now takes half damage instead of just requiring two damage to fill one bubble.  It's part of the errata for the new printing of TacOps.
Well, damn, that IS useful.
Wish I'd have heard of that. Though I think I got mine over BattleCorps, so I doubt I'll get a new download.
There's certainly a lot of clan weapons with uneven damage numbers.
Regarding firepower - I think 60 damage at long range is indeed impressive - you pay with range for damage.
A Bane 3 has just 20% more.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 August 2018, 17:06:52
At range, yes, but the comparison was to the Mad Cat Mk II once it's gotten close enough to use its ER Mediums: at that point you run into a lot of Clan mechs that can throw out more than 60 points a round, though not all with heat efficiency and not all in 15 point clusters.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 05 August 2018, 17:27:03
Well, damn, that IS useful.
Wish I'd have heard of that. Though I think I got mine over BattleCorps, so I doubt I'll get a new download.
There's certainly a lot of clan weapons with uneven damage numbers.
Regarding firepower - I think 60 damage at long range is indeed impressive - you pay with range for damage.
A Bane 3 has just 20% more.

Its more about crits & TACs based on several discussions and official questions.

Ogre, yeah I know about the Executioner's bad armor choices which is why I also included the Blood Asp which is better in that regard.  Just few of the original configs jumped.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Kidd on 05 August 2018, 17:57:35

 though not all with heat efficiency

Aye, there's the rub. Few Clan Mechs can heat sustainably put out 40 points long and 60 points close, while maintaining the Mk II's 4/6 speed.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: glitterboy2098 on 05 August 2018, 19:18:31
honestly, i suspect that with the proliferation of Reflective armor in the post-jihad eras, the original Mk.II version found a niche. it is a bit inefficient when it came out, but those LRM's and gauss rifles just ignore the reflective armor that would have rendered a PPC based loadout ineffective. and the Gauss Rifles and lasers just ignore the reactive armor that makes LRM's ineffective..

as an 'all comers' design it shines in the dark ages as a result. more so than most of its later variants.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 05 August 2018, 21:45:20
That's a good point.  Anti-ballistic armor would be a problem for it, but it's so rare that it shouldn't be a serious problem.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 06 August 2018, 07:38:49
Ballistic-Reinforced also suffers from a quarter less raw protection, so there'll be plenty of other machines to take care of that particular problem.
Maybe it's just not particularly clan-like, but it's a solid design. Bland, certainly.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: JadeHellbringer on 06 August 2018, 19:37:17
I wanted to pop in real quick and explain the Mk.II-2, because it's an odd duck that deserves its fluff explained to match the stats.

This is one of my designs, and when we submitted it we also submitted a little explanation of the Mech. That didn't make the book, and the result is that it looks like a slightly subpar design compared to its parent. And that's exactly what it is- but why? Because it's intended to be that way.

See, the Sharks had a hit on their hands with the original design, selling it to pretty much anyone who could rub two coins together. And a big part of that is who they sold to- IS forces got a really nice Mech, but the Sharks only mounted older equipment on the design (see the writeup for the old-school Gauss rifles and such). That's good- but it's also unsustainable. How long until you run out of those old weapon caches? You can start production of new stuff, sure, but that cuts into your profit margins. Another idea is to produce a variant, also using older equipment- bonus, by making one that's significantly different from the original, you may be able to drum up new interest, especially important as the FCCW was winding down and there was need for two large military forces to re-arm themselves (in-universe, of course, no one knew what was coming next).

The result was an urban-warfare version of the Mk.II, dropping long-range power for close-range punch. I very seriously considered dropping down to an LB-10X in order to keep the lasers, but felt the 'big boomstick' was a more likely selling point for the Sharks tryiing to get new interest in their assault Mech- LB-10Xs are easy to find on a lot of designs, but a 20X is a bit trickier. The quad-Streak racks were simply because I love using Streak launchers- again, twin Streak-6 were considered in place of the quad-4s, but the idea was to keep this 'weird and flawed' rather than optimizing it. Losing the lasers hurt, I admit, but it was getting a little sticky finding weight to work with- either of the above fixes would have allowed for it, I suppose.

The result is a Mech that honestly isn't particularly good overall, but does have a massive short-range punch, a more-than-token long-range attack still, the jump jets remained so it could clear obstacles in broken/urban environments... and as it turns out, it ended up being just about perfect for the kind of street-to-street fighting the Jihad produced, at least briefly- with those ammo loadouts, it's not going to last long before it has to go home for ammo. And that's okay- again, Clan design philosophy doesn't really call for cavernous ammo bins, right?

My other designs I've contributed to this universe were intended for very specific roles, and were tweaked to be as good as possible at that one job above all other considerations. This though was intended to be scary on-paper, cheap and appealing to sales clientele, and underwhelming when actually used. Remember, not every design can- or should- be a min-maxed perfection machine like the Hellstar. Sometimes you get flawed lemons, and I'm happy to have provided one here that is both flawed and usable at the same time.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 06 August 2018, 19:49:58
I keep imagine using it in place of a Hauptmann A.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: SteelRaven on 06 August 2018, 21:29:27
...a LB-10X version sounds kinda cool idea now.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Scotty on 06 August 2018, 22:29:14
The Mad Cat Mk II 4 is a phenomenal unit in Alpha Strike.  Consistent damage at all ranges, high overheat for points-discounted damage, OVL, good durability, and jumping movement.  It pairs excellently with a higher skill pilot, and is probably one of the two or three best candidates for the Sniper SPA in the game.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 09:09:21
Honestly with what MWDA did I am surprised we did not get a version that had a pair of LB-5X, some ERSL and ATMs or larger LRM racks . . .
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Kidd on 07 August 2018, 09:24:44
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes notes JHB.

Personally I like the choice of Streak 4s, crit-seeking is a valid alternative strategy to blasting big holes and complements the Mk II variant lineup

Honestly with what MWDA did I am surprised we did not get a version that had a pair of LB-5X, some ERSL and ATMs or larger LRM racks . . .
That would be the Mad Cat Mk III. Think I might tackle that one next.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: AJC46 on 07 August 2018, 09:51:57
Second, what changes were those?

for the sake of PSR rolls all damage on hardened is now counted as half towards the PSR unless re-laser damage (which ignore this and are directly counted for the sake of PSR) no rounding involved so it now takes what would count as 40 damage on other armors to cause a 20+ damage in one turn PSR roll.

ie hardened armor mechs no longer has to do a PSR check should it take a single (improved)heavy gauss slug or single AC-20 hit.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=62102.0
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 09:57:29
Thanks for the behind-the-scenes notes JHB.

Personally I like the choice of Streak 4s, crit-seeking is a valid alternative strategy to blasting big holes and complements the Mk II variant lineup
That would be the Mad Cat Mk III. Think I might tackle that one next.

Oh I know about the Mad Cat Mk III (Or real standard Stormcrow . . . all those names shifting to other weights) . . . but I specifically started it off with paired class 5 ACs of flavor b/c you saw that with a lot of their mechs . . . Jupiter, Ryoken II, Catapult C2, and others.  Might have to play with this idea in HMP when I get home tonight.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Wildonion on 07 August 2018, 15:21:39
As much flak as the clicky game gets, it did make the Mad Cat Mk. II 5 my favorite of the designs; it might not be the best, but it is solid and I love the asymmetry of the arms. I remember being so excited when my copy of "The Vede" Vederman's Mad Cat II arrived in the mail! I really should go get it out of storage and plop it on my desk.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 August 2018, 01:30:54
Hm, yeah . . . they could have done it with paired LB-5X, 2 ATM-9 and a few other changes . . . more range, but a big drop off in hitting power.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 08 August 2018, 07:17:21
Is there a record of Dark Age units often using pairs of eclectic, barely effective weaponry?
I never played it.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 August 2018, 09:10:41
I think it was a mix between range & number of weapons . . . look at the Jupiter's ACs . . . but yeah, you ran into a lot of 2 & 5 class ACs of various flavors, ERSL and MGs.  One the flip side, you also ended up with a lot of Heavy Large Lasers in weird places.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 August 2018, 11:29:45
Is there a record of Dark Age units often using pairs of eclectic, barely effective weaponry?
I never played it.

Yes.  It's because the appearance and clicky stats of DA units were done first, then board game stats had to be reverse-engineered from them.  This led to a lot really weird design decisions.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: SteelRaven on 08 August 2018, 12:34:24
It didn't help that WK seemingly couldn't decide which Mad Cat they want. We had the icon with a Mad Cat MK II that never appeared in mini form, art that resembled a Timber Wolf and vague descriptions that could technically work on ether platform. CGL had to solidify that it was the Mad Cat MK II though I now wonder how many Timber Wolf load outs would work well on the 90 ton platform (haven't bothered doing the math) though few player want xerox designs give or take 15 tons.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Sabelkatten on 08 August 2018, 12:42:42
Actually, if you go with LB5s instead of GRs the mk.II weapon package fits perfectly on the Timby. No JJs, thought...
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on 08 August 2018, 12:46:17
I think most classic Mad Cat configs would work well on the MK II: the GRs and ammo alone take 28 tons, and given that the Mad Cat mounted FF armor and ES chassis, it wouldn't have issues with lack of internal space.

Actually, the main issue might be running out of crits for the extra tonnage.  Look how the Mk II standard beats the Mad Cat A (usually held up as one of the best Mad Cat configs) in firepower while using heavier GRs instead of ER PPCs.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Colt Ward on 08 August 2018, 13:05:12
It didn't help that WK seemingly couldn't decide which Mad Cat they want. We had the icon with a Mad Cat MK II that never appeared in mini form, art that resembled a Timber Wolf and vague descriptions that could technically work on ether platform. CGL had to solidify that it was the Mad Cat MK II though I now wonder how many Timber Wolf load outs would work well on the 90 ton platform (haven't bothered doing the math) though few player want xerox designs give or take 15 tons.

Yeah . . . for instance, I was looking and you could make a Gus Eddington (or however it was spelled) version on a regular Timberwolf- Gauss Rifle & HLL.

One notable pilot not mentioned!  Kal Radick . . . got dead to Anastasia Kerensky.  I want to say he had the 5, painted so much silver it seemed white . . . she sold his mech off to the Sea Foxes (and they rebuilt it as Eddington's IIRC!).

(http://warrenborn.com/UnitSection/FFE/F131.jpg)
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: DarkISI on 10 August 2018, 13:59:27
I wanted to pop in real quick and explain the Mk.II-2, because it's an odd duck that deserves its fluff explained to match the stats.

This is one of my designs, and when we submitted it we also submitted a little explanation of the Mech. That didn't make the book, and the result is that it looks like a slightly subpar design compared to its parent. And that's exactly what it is- but why? Because it's intended to be that way.

See, the Sharks had a hit on their hands with the original design, selling it to pretty much anyone who could rub two coins together. And a big part of that is who they sold to- IS forces got a really nice Mech, but the Sharks only mounted older equipment on the design (see the writeup for the old-school Gauss rifles and such). That's good- but it's also unsustainable. How long until you run out of those old weapon caches? You can start production of new stuff, sure, but that cuts into your profit margins. Another idea is to produce a variant, also using older equipment- bonus, by making one that's significantly different from the original, you may be able to drum up new interest, especially important as the FCCW was winding down and there was need for two large military forces to re-arm themselves (in-universe, of course, no one knew what was coming next).

The result was an urban-warfare version of the Mk.II, dropping long-range power for close-range punch. I very seriously considered dropping down to an LB-10X in order to keep the lasers, but felt the 'big boomstick' was a more likely selling point for the Sharks tryiing to get new interest in their assault Mech- LB-10Xs are easy to find on a lot of designs, but a 20X is a bit trickier. The quad-Streak racks were simply because I love using Streak launchers- again, twin Streak-6 were considered in place of the quad-4s, but the idea was to keep this 'weird and flawed' rather than optimizing it. Losing the lasers hurt, I admit, but it was getting a little sticky finding weight to work with- either of the above fixes would have allowed for it, I suppose.

The result is a Mech that honestly isn't particularly good overall, but does have a massive short-range punch, a more-than-token long-range attack still, the jump jets remained so it could clear obstacles in broken/urban environments... and as it turns out, it ended up being just about perfect for the kind of street-to-street fighting the Jihad produced, at least briefly- with those ammo loadouts, it's not going to last long before it has to go home for ammo. And that's okay- again, Clan design philosophy doesn't really call for cavernous ammo bins, right?

My other designs I've contributed to this universe were intended for very specific roles, and were tweaked to be as good as possible at that one job above all other considerations. This though was intended to be scary on-paper, cheap and appealing to sales clientele, and underwhelming when actually used. Remember, not every design can- or should- be a min-maxed perfection machine like the Hellstar. Sometimes you get flawed lemons, and I'm happy to have provided one here that is both flawed and usable at the same time.

Actually, the 2 and 3 got TRO entries. Albeit only a small BC exclusive blurb. (202 words on pure fluff)
The 2 never sold as well as the original, but it did good enough. The 3 went to the Sharks exclusively and was never produced in large numbers while the factories underwent some retooling for the Enhanced.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Crimson Dynamo on 18 August 2018, 10:19:44
I appreciate the gathering of all the Mk. II variants in one article. I lost track of what version carried what after the 2. I kept seeing different versions as minis on CamoSpecs and IWM but never looked them up.
Having played the II and II-2 for so long, the idea of a Mk. II that doesn't jump is a strange thought to me, so the 3 doesn't seem all that attractive even with the firepower increase of the HAGs.
I'd much prefer the the main Mk.II over the 4, though I could see the value in exploiting holes opened up by other units, though a plethora of other designs could also do that for far cheaper if not necessarily from the same ranges.
The 5, now that one I must try with those IJJs. I wasn't a fan of the arms-only weapons array until I saw they've got the armor to take x2 Gauss/CERPPC hits without going internal. It's got the movement and armor to really be a PITA, and the damage output is respectable enough (I suppose...) where you can't really afford to ignore it.
The 6 is brand new to me, I never really heard of it before now. Seems like it will perform it's role of a fire sponge quite well, requiring a disproportionate amount of effort to put down. I suppose if their is any upside to seeing one on the wrong side of the table, and if I understand right, is the repair happens at the end of the turn? I suppose if you focused enough ordnance (targeting computers would be critical) you could cripple if not down it before the Harjel starts it's work. Easier said than done, I know.

That intro sticks out as unworthy of a quality article like this, though. Over than that, great article and I thank you.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: sadlerbw on 27 August 2018, 16:22:41
I'm a fan of the Enhanced in Alpha Strike. I know Scotty prefers the 4, and with good reason, but I like the extra armor on the Enhanced. You give up one point of OV, and the OVL special, but for 5PV you pick up 4 more points of armor and the CR special. Yeah, you loose the probe as well, but I'm OK with that. I prefer paying points for armor rather than structure, because of crits. An extra 4 points PLUS the CR special means you really need to mark off every single bubble to kill this thing, and lucky crits are very unlikely to take it down. With the loss of OVL, I prefer Jumping Jack for an SPA with this mech, but Sniper is still not a bad idea.

In AS at least, the Mk II is a solid assault mech. Maybe not my favorite ever, but it is undeniably good.
Title: Re: Mech of the Week: Mad Cat Mk II
Post by: Scotty on 27 August 2018, 22:35:44
Honestly I prefer the 4 largely for the simple reason that it makes a better convention 'Mech: good baseline damage and a middle/high OV plus the opportunities to use it make for much more interesting games than an endless parade of high damage no OV units that have no choices to make besides who to roll dice at.

At 4/4/4 with OV3 and OVL, the Mad Cat Mk II 4 is one of the best in the business for choice.