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BattleTech Player Boards => Non-Canon Units => Topic started by: truetanker on 16 June 2020, 23:30:46

Title: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 16 June 2020, 23:30:46
Looking to give the Joes a Samarkand Block II and COBRA a York. The rest of their respective fleets would be a Carrack, double Tramps and a single Comitatus.

Lets start building the ultimate 80's : again!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/G.I._Joe_franchise_logo.png)                           (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8c/Cobra_Command_Logo.svg/150px-Cobra_Command_Logo.svg.png)

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 17 June 2020, 06:21:02
So BATs are done.

What's next?  Should we decide on a vehicle and how effective it should be?  ... Mk1 HISS, Fang, Skyhawk.  We'll def be hitting some support rules if we do somethings ... ie the snowmobile ... driver, passenger, dual weapons in front (Mausers?).

Hey the Joe amphib APC is easy! (kinda had this done for AU but different nomenclature -- inspiration was totally Joe though)
10 ton wheeled APC 6/9, MG in turret, 3 ton Inf Comp (can fit 35 non anti-mech troops fyi; now that they're only .085 per trooper),  full amphib, only 1.5 tons of BAR-5: but hey it's a troop transport, not a mainline tank! Would give it a crew of 2 vs 1.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 17 June 2020, 15:31:08
Going by the Wiki, the HISS is a ten ton tank with twin cannons that occasionally has troop carrying capacity. Sounds like a plausible tracked APC, just with two machine guns instead of one.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Luciora on 17 June 2020, 17:24:11
Well the Joe's have first dibs on the Slayer ASF....
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Giovanni Blasini on 17 June 2020, 19:32:01
Quote from: Luciora on 17 June 2020, 17:24:11
Well the Joe's have first dibs on the Slayer ASF....

Wouldn't they be using Phoenix Hawk LAMs instead?
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 17 June 2020, 19:44:01
Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 17 June 2020, 15:31:08
Going by the Wiki, the HISS is a ten ton tank with twin cannons that occasionally has troop carrying capacity. Sounds like a plausible tracked APC, just with two machine guns instead of one.

use LMG? 1 squad/10 men? ... get it moving at least 5/8 if not faster (60 rated fuel cell is 2 tons, same as 50 rated fuel cell).  Can get 4 tons of armor (surprise! it didn't die that fast), 2 LMG/.5 ammo, 2 crew (above min, but can fluff as we see fit)
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Luciora on 17 June 2020, 19:44:07
This is why.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 17 June 2020, 19:44:42
cobra gets a mech buster, maybe with AC-10 and some other support weapons (MG/RL/etc)
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 19 June 2020, 14:16:42
Bear with me here:

[edit: total redux here]  I spent my Father's Day not killing my own offspring (it was a close one) and designing some Cobra Vehicles!

1. Fang Support VToL. 1.958 tons (b/c it matched the toy/fluff mass) ... Move 15/23: closest to 175 mph I could get, but 5 BAR-8 armor, 4 infantry scale RLs (range 2/4/6 dmg .53 rounds to 1 BT scale), 1 Support MG w/extra ammo, 2 pillion seating (they get to hang on skids and somehow not get burned by RL exhaust).  Hey it's a 2 ton LMG moving 15/23 ... not bad.

2. Fang 2 Support CF. 9 tons, 4/6 Fuel Cell-Propeller, VSTOL, 2 I-OS SRM-2, LMG w 1/2t ammo (fits toy/some fluff)

3. HISS tanks:
  a. HISS: 8 tons, tracked 5/8, 2 LMG, Infantry [5]
  b. HISS II: 38 tons, tracked 4/6, 3 LAC-2 ammo 2t, 1 I-OS SRM-2, 2 PSL, 4 SHS (1 from Fuel Cell engine), Infantry [10]
  c. HISS III: as 'a' but fusion engine, 2 ER ML and no Infantry
  d. HISS IV: 17 tons, tracked 5/8, LMG, LRM-5, PA(L) [12]. (uses adv BA comp rules, each PA(L) takes .25t space, other wise drop PA(L) to 6 and drop LRM-5/ammo)
  e. HISS V: not there yet -- thinking medium range w/AC 5 or 10, mucho ammo for Pr & AP (3 tons?), Fuel Cell or Light Fusion engine for 6/9 ish speed, 2 LMG (like the range over MG), 2 RL packs (size depends on how much weight I have left after decent armor, possibly CASE).
  f. HISS Scout support veh. .6 (yes 6/10) tons, tracked 7/11 Battery/Electric, 157 km range, 2 HGL w/ammo, 2 spotlights, convertible (cuz, Cobra don't care if it's pilots get creamed! ... at 5 points BAR-5 armor it didn't matter either)
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 21 June 2020, 10:33:04
'ere's a question:

Should we go and Battletech-ize and 'upgrade' units or try to stay more toy design (like Neb Cali did with keeping SW stuff cinematic)? I am leaning towards a mix

For example: Joe fluff vs. Battletech reality.  If we want marginally useful designs, going all support vehicle and tiny is not always useful.  If we make the HISS any smaller, it's going to be useless versus anything except unarmored infantry.

BUT I think I might go back and make the FANGS smaller support vehicles with infantry scale weapons. I really do like the math of combat over support vehicles, in this case however I may need to engage math brain.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 22 June 2020, 09:52:21
I say we should use BAR 5 armor, unless it's appropriate enough to use  BAR 10. Like in an armored since, ie: it's armored heavily... after all a mechs head has 3 critical and up to 9 points... also consider that the BAR rating for cockpit glass is BAR 8. Meaning, if firing anything heavier than a LL, the glass is considered an armor point. Or in this case a critical hit.

We should use a standard weapons list to resolve this.

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 22 June 2020, 12:30:00
Lets open up the weapon list with some guidelines.  There's a world of difference between Toy, TV, Comic, and Movie for these guys.

Armor is kinda tricky at times.  If not mounting anything over 8 points in a location, BAR-5 could be the way to go.  At the same time if the armor you are mounting is super light to begin with it's almost a who cares situation.  If you have 3 points of BAR-3, 8, or 10 ... a Medium Laser simply does give a surat's behind -- you are vaporized anyway!

With the support veh rules, there is extra kg at times (note, not tonnage) that is wasted (or we can add 'cargo space'), so I bumped up the rating to make up some weight (and reduced the rating at times to get more return on weight).

At 1 point of armor, I think you could the best-est armor on anything (hardened?), Almost any weapon will eliminate it, if not go straight through.

decisions, decisions

Also, perusing some old toy images and I saw the Snake.  Then I thought, hey that looks familiar! I had one! ... I think we're set for Cobra to have a 1 ton/Medium BA! ... one claw w/anti-inf weapon on arm, one laser in body, and a RL-1 or 2 (or 2 RL-1s) on the other arm.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 22 June 2020, 16:08:08
GI JOE has the Flagg

but Cobra getting a Warship?? Thinking that it might work better with # of Jumpships making tracking them down harder
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 22 June 2020, 16:42:09
What like Comitatus? I gave them the ability to use that York as a substitute for that super sub from the mid 80s cartoon.

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 22 June 2020, 18:10:42
In the comic they managed to raise their own island too.  And managed to get the UN to recognize it as a sovereign territory before Joe could invade.

With a heft of fairly light vehicles, Cobra probably runs some swarm tactics as well having the ability to hit multiple regions at the same time.  One way to keep their enemies on their toes, "Recon Lance, we need to move to [insert 6 different locations at once]".

Cobra Moray Hydrofoil is screaming to made into a full combat veh with significant tonnage ... It's got a ton of weapons on it.

Weapons/Equipment: I think we should be very flexible here, ie: On the HISS V, it has a pretty cool looking Gatling gun; AC-5, AC-10, UAC, LBX, or RAC even?

Launchers: OS weapons are ok if you have the tonnage, IOS are even better, RLs are good, but lets not cut them out of having a full Launcher either (when bigger vehicles or appropriate mechs are listed).  I used Improved OS b/c they fit and didn't take away or give away anything special.

Mechs: Any ideas yet?  I think they need the IS Battle Cobra! and a FWL(?) Cobra! -- maybe get funky with weapons, going for N or E LRMs?

Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: idea weenie on 23 June 2020, 09:29:13
Quote from: DOC_Agren on 22 June 2020, 16:08:08
  GI JOE has the Flagg

but Cobra getting a Warship?? Thinking that it might work better with # of Jumpships making tracking them down harder 

COBRA did have their own carriers, as seen in Computer Complications (https://gijoe.fandom.com/wiki/Computer_Complications)

So COBRA could have more small/popcorn units, while GI Joe has more large/quality units.

GI Joe is Clan, COBRA is Inner Sphere
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 23 June 2020, 09:38:21
Yeah the Trawler, ugly ass heliocarrier...

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: beachhead1985 on 23 June 2020, 12:15:44
MARS is the easy answer; but in any fantastic setting; I like imagining: where the hell do they *get* this stuff? Who builds this for them? Where is it built? How did no-one notice?
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 23 June 2020, 14:37:58
I wouldn't go as far to give Joe clan tech.  They're both IS.  Joe can have more effective stuff, but not necessary (MOBAT- AC or Heavy Rifle? ... or Gauss?).

Heliocarrier (or Helocarrier?) -- either way, an Airship? (300 tons!) ... super fragile, but it would fit the bill.

I feel Cobra is some mishmash of C*/WoB/Crazy-Clans(JF+SJ+IH+Mon+SV)/Quickcell corporation.

Both forces need an industrialized planet or two+ as bases to operate out of.  Cobra would seem to use a lot of 'popcorn' terror attacks.  Strike and Fade, constantly.  Hit harder when you can.  Or just throw everything in at once with some real combat units and swarms of 'popcorn' everywhere.

Vehicles: anyone else think the Joe Hovercraft could be a Svantovit retro'd with IS gear/weapons (3 ton Infantry version).  What about the CLAW, Cobra's strap-on-Jet thingee: I mean the toy was cool (and cheap), but in BT terms? -- Can we design a 1-2 ton CF, with a speed of 1/2 ? -- Talk about guerilla fighter, you could put that in a garage and pull it out at a moments notice. 

[edit: dumb things we do b/c of toys!]:
We can make a 1 ton CF for the Cobra Claw.  51 fuel points, speed of 1/2 -- c'mon it's a 1 ton expendable scout thingee, 2 infantry LRMs with 6 shots each (note: cannot dmg BT units with .48 dmg, but good against other Inf.), a support MG with 15 shots.  -- Cobra is Quickcell gone badder-er.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: idea weenie on 23 June 2020, 22:46:47
Quote from: Wolf72 on 23 June 2020, 14:37:58
  I wouldn't go as far to give Joe clan tech.  They're both IS.  Joe can have more effective stuff, but not necessary (MOBAT- AC or Heavy Rifle? ... or Gauss?). 

Sorry, I was comparing the two forces in terms of training and equipment quality.  GI Joe would have a few quality items, while COBRA has lots of lower-tech and weaker items, with only a few people having quality skills.

If you want a 3025-era Mech comparison, try:
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 24 June 2020, 10:56:29
I was thinking why not limit the tech to one side, clan  but also limit the weight tonnage, say up to 15 tons, but allow Proto mech production and it's weapons to be the heaviest?  Reason for this is we can assume the rifle cannons, PACs and LACs to be the most damaging weapons around, from a IRL perspective. Why? Cause if we assume each ton of ammo to have a basic spread of each type of ammo allowed, it'll cut down on assigning slots to ammo, after all a single to has more than enough to solve this problem.

Also if we enable them to have full mechs, there's going to be an adjustment period... ie: all or nothing.  Either they have the tech or not...

At least this way we can control the range to a more accurate one, even IF we allowed lasers... which should be Gen 1 tech, aka Improved. Hell I think we should use the Improved clan weapons as the list. But limit the lasers to medium and smaller classes.

Thoughts of this or comments?

TT

Edit: more of an add on,  if we assume the LACs as artillery and the larger PACs as rotary, PrAC-6 and -8, we can get that sweet 1 point damage spread ala RAC dial-a-damage! And the AC 10 as a naval weapon, we can get a range equivalent, sorry no Gauss.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 24 June 2020, 11:20:58
Training purposes: Joe/Clan? aha, that does make more sense now.

Clan tech? hmm up to 15 tons? ... That is a huge amount of fire power.  You're only cutting out a few weapons. and most Clan Tech is significantly more powerful.

Chem lasers make a good case for swapping over.  I think PACs would simply out class LACS-- NM they are almost completely comparable.  The PAC-2 is better, LAC-5 is one more point of dmg, but .5 tons more than the PAC-4.  LoL, if they did a LAC-10 we'd have another comparison.

Gauss: out, What about the Magshot? it makes an 'advanced' weapon system w/o really out performing anyone.  Very Joe/Cobra-ish fancy system imo.

Tossing a Thumper on a vehicle is totally ok in my book and would fit both groups.
What about thunderbolts for the hawk missile system? Make it a Thunderbolt-5 (would be on a trailer w/ turret and separate power source for weapons, 10 ER min, no movement -- unless your trailer is 5 or 10 tons tracked, 30 ton wheeled)

Mechs: different bridge I think. 

Right now I'm liking silly toy conversions with a rating of "huh, that's somewhat effective at times" or "you know, it might work"
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 24 June 2020, 12:36:24
I agree, should be more Tech advances for Joes, but more experimental for Cobra.

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Cannonshop on 24 June 2020, 15:12:28
kind of misses the original point of eighties GI Joe.

Cobra had BETTER weapons and more guys-the breakdown should be Clan P/G for the Joes, but Clantech and experimental for COBRA.

why? because GI Joe was originally formulated with 'standard gear and special troops', while COBRA was a combination of mad scientist/supervillainy with loads of outright BETTER equipment.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 24 June 2020, 15:28:01
Why not give the Joes Improve while Cobra gets late Jihad tech?

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 24 June 2020, 15:54:33
I agree with Cobra going mad scientist: ... also mad designer, throwing introtech and advanced tech all in the same boat, pun intended.  Why not pair an ER LL along with a Heavy Rifle!  Or have a unit using BAR-5 armor, but mounting a RAC-5.  Then fit BAR-8+ on such a small unit, it wouldn't matter anyway ("just look here trooper, you have the most advanced armor around in your personalized suicide machine, you'll be fine!")

Still mulling around the HISS V: It has the look of a front line machine, BFG-ish on turret, MG's in front, add in some missile system -- RLs or MML?

I don't think we need to get all Clan-ny on them, but I could be a stick in the mud too.  I'm a big Clan fan, but I think we can get there with IS tech.  I continually think of Cobra as an Opfor unit, you go all Clan with them and the swarm/crazy advantage disappears (as BV or effectiveness makes them to 'good').  Heck I see Cobra deploying tons of 10 and 15 tons mechs, even with the 20% internals, it's what they do (can make up some firepower with hand-held too).

Some of the fluff on their equipment gives some help too: found information on the Water Moccasin, it's 3.35 tons going 5/8 -- pop on some infantry scale weapons and you have this little bugger everywhere there's water. (my Moray version is up to 80t, mostly L1 or L2 weapons going 8/12).

Again, some of their designs are just odd, albeit when you're designing toys to use with action figures that's what you get.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Intermittent_Coherence on 24 June 2020, 18:43:02
Quote from: idea weenie on 23 June 2020, 09:29:13
COBRA did have their own carriers, as seen in Computer Complications (https://gijoe.fandom.com/wiki/Computer_Complications)

So COBRA could have more small/popcorn units, while GI Joe has more large/quality units.

GI Joe is Clan, COBRA is Inner Sphere
COBRA had a flying one at the start of the 80's movie.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Cannonshop on 24 June 2020, 19:17:47
Quote from: Wolf72 on 24 June 2020, 15:54:33
I agree with Cobra going mad scientist: ... also mad designer, throwing introtech and advanced tech all in the same boat, pun intended.  Why not pair an ER LL along with a Heavy Rifle!  Or have a unit using BAR-5 armor, but mounting a RAC-5.  Then fit BAR-8+ on such a small unit, it wouldn't matter anyway ("just look here trooper, you have the most advanced armor around in your personalized suicide machine, you'll be fine!")

Still mulling around the HISS V: It has the look of a front line machine, BFG-ish on turret, MG's in front, add in some missile system -- RLs or MML?

I don't think we need to get all Clan-ny on them, but I could be a stick in the mud too.  I'm a big Clan fan, but I think we can get there with IS tech.  I continually think of Cobra as an Opfor unit, you go all Clan with them and the swarm/crazy advantage disappears (as BV or effectiveness makes them to 'good').  Heck I see Cobra deploying tons of 10 and 15 tons mechs, even with the 20% internals, it's what they do (can make up some firepower with hand-held too).

Some of the fluff on their equipment gives some help too: found information on the Water Moccasin, it's 3.35 tons going 3/5 -- pop on some infantry scale weapons and you have this little bugger everywhere there's water. (my Moray version is up to 80t, mostly L1 or L2 weapons going 8/12).

Again, some of their designs are just odd, albeit when you're designing toys to use with action figures that's what you get.

counterargument coming...

Joe: give them "Introtech" (3025 gear) with 3050 ammunition types, but baseline 3/4 G/P scores (Like Clanner regulars).

Cobra: go hawg wild on the tech-tree, but 4/5 average with a bias toward green (5/6) on the G/P.  THIS gives the whole feel right there that the line started with-the Joes had decent gear, but unspectacular by regular military standards, while Cobra had fantastic equipment in semi-untrained hands.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 24 June 2020, 19:42:37
Not much of a counter argument  8) ... I like hawg wild!! ... I mean, really anything from a SRM-2, MG to a HGR!

Need to give Joe some things that are L1 (maybe a smidge more) stuff, just came out in later books:

Thinking of these (running down list in Sarna)
RL-s
Regular and Improved one shots
Magshots
Alt ammo for ACs/Missiles
LACs
Binary Laser
Bombast
L PPC? yes/no? --nah, overtakes LAC-5, AC-5 to much.
MMLs?
Mortars
MRMs?
A4FCS?
Thunderbolts?
Artillery (Thump, Snipe, and Tom)
Rifles (Joes are to smart to use Lights, leave that to Cobra, they pair that with a Heavy PPC and leave everyone scratching their heads)
Narc? (even limiting to an Imp OS Narc)
C.A.S.E.
AMS
EWS (electronic warfare system)
Recon Camera, Look Down Radar, Remote sensor thingee, Communication gear
Chemical Lasers? (still think this would have been a cool intro laser for early BT era -- even a primitive version)

Almost geeked out for the night!

[edit: I did say almost!]  I'd be willing to go as far as letting Joe's have IS Omnimechs if all the pods are L1 stuff and they have SHS (oh wait, Strider is that you?).  Cobra of course will put their BFG-2000+ energy weapon on a mech with SHS so it overheats after 2 shots, but they're BAT-crazy.

[edit2: wait a sec here] ... To be fair, there is only so much hawg wild Cobra can go, there's only so much you can put on wee vehicles that are using infantry scale weapons.  Options also doesn't mean we use them all at once either.  I've a Moray design ready: 80 ton hydrofoil, 2 AC-5s w/alt ammo, 10 LMGs, 2 LRT-5, 2 SRT-2, 10 tons primitive armor -- not exactly crazy.  My Fang design is crazy, but mostly because it's a sub 2t support scout/attack vtol moving 15/23.

When we move out of toy inspiration, I think things might get crazier.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 25 June 2020, 07:45:48
More talk about weapons tech levels and silly/fun toy ideas:

Cobra had a toy called the liquidator, must have been after I outgrew these things and had very little to no of my own money -- so many years of possible collecting gone!

https://gijoe.fandom.com/wiki/Liquidator

I'm thinking it's an ASF with an AC, Laser, and Missiles (hey, all 3 bases covered!).

AC: LB-5X for long range (or Standard AC-2)
Laser: Large VSP: b/c they can? Possibly PPC of some type (would use DHS then)
Missiles: TB-10 with 2 tons ammo?
Armor: It's Cobra, could go primitive to HFF, Refl, Stealth, whatever
HS: If we can down grade to SHS, Cobra would do it otherwise DHS.
Engine: Standard, XL, XXL -- oh, XXL and SHS: now that's a bizarre(dumb) combo we could use
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Cannonshop on 25 June 2020, 11:29:06
Quote from: Wolf72 on 24 June 2020, 19:42:37
Not much of a counter argument  8) ... I like hawg wild!! ... I mean, really anything from a SRM-2, MG to a HGR!

Need to give Joe some things that are L1 (maybe a smidge more) stuff, just came out in later books:

Thinking of these (running down list in Sarna)
RL-s
Regular and Improved one shots
Magshots
Alt ammo for ACs/Missiles
LACs
Binary Laser
Bombast
L PPC? yes/no? --nah, overtakes LAC-5, AC-5 to much.
MMLs?
Mortars
MRMs?
A4FCS?
Thunderbolts?
Artillery (Thump, Snipe, and Tom)
Rifles (Joes are to smart to use Lights, leave that to Cobra, they pair that with a Heavy PPC and leave everyone scratching their heads)
Narc? (even limiting to an Imp OS Narc)
C.A.S.E.
AMS
EWS (electronic warfare system)
Recon Camera, Look Down Radar, Remote sensor thingee, Communication gear
Chemical Lasers? (still think this would have been a cool intro laser for early BT era -- even a primitive version)

Almost geeked out for the night!

[edit: I did say almost!]  I'd be willing to go as far as letting Joe's have IS Omnimechs if all the pods are L1 stuff and they have SHS (oh wait, Strider is that you?).  Cobra of course will put their BFG-2000+ energy weapon on a mech with SHS so it overheats after 2 shots, but they're BAT-crazy.

[edit2: wait a sec here] ... To be fair, there is only so much hawg wild Cobra can go, there's only so much you can put on wee vehicles that are using infantry scale weapons.  Options also doesn't mean we use them all at once either.  I've a Moray design ready: 80 ton hydrofoil, 2 AC-5s w/alt ammo, 10 LMGs, 2 LRT-5, 2 SRT-2, 10 tons primitive armor -- not exactly crazy.  My Fang design is crazy, but mostly because it's a sub 2t support scout/attack vtol moving 15/23.

When we move out of toy inspiration, I think things might get crazier.

Typically, the Joes would be better organized and standardized, with a standardized spread of gear on the infantry level and absolute standardization on their 'mechs.  I could easily see them fielding IS Omnimechs without complaint, probably with a bias toward standard engines and endo-steel skeletons, while Cobra is "go hawg wild" with both gear and organization-aka toss in everything that is goofy and borderline OP, but with some painful defects (single heat sinks, XL engines, XXL engines, XL gyros and so on).

Basically consider COBRA to be the backyard ramboes with all the expensive gear that doesn't quite match up, while the Joes are the hardcore professionals with a heavy emphasis on training over 'moar dakka'.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Cannonshop on 25 June 2020, 11:34:02
basically, a Joe design should be more 'zombie' in build type and qualities.  lots of standard engine layouts with CASE and decent protection, a heavy lean on low-heat energy weapons (aka 'standard' energy weapons), good layouts with their missile and ballistic units, and a decent spread of basic capability with infantry and so on.

while COBRA is where you would see something like a composite endoskeleton with an XXL engine and XL Gyro, packing gauss rifles and double heat-sinks it really doesn't need, with not quite enough ammo (or alternately, using autocannon builds, more ammo than anyone is likely to ever use up, and distributed...poorly.)

Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 25 June 2020, 16:02:13
Why not older tech... it's clunky enough for Joes. while Cobra has Jihad Wob tech.

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 26 June 2020, 10:28:58
Old tech still works!



Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 02 July 2020, 09:46:22
Did a few more toy conversions: the CAT, basically the Crimson Guard MOBAT, is up to 70 tons with a UAC-10, Hardened Armor -- it's kinda cool.  The Stinger attack jeep got bumped to a 20t wheeled 14/21 w/MRM-10.  Maggot artillery has a Sniper, P LL, LAC-5, but only a few tons of BAR-5 armor.


So what about our standard Cobra trooper from the toy/comic line? He's (we can go ahead and include She's as well now!) had a Sniper Rifle:  https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69615.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69615.0)  (Woot Daryk!)

The rest of the cost/stats are in Shrapnel #1.  but which Rifle?  I was thinking the SLDF, Dark caste rifle, or WoB RS-17 stripped down version.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wrangler on 02 July 2020, 10:30:10
Thunderbolt missiles definitely fit the genre. Big missiles fit. I wish the antiaircraft missiles were easier to use/mount. I could picture the F-90 Stingrays be turned into X-29 fighters for the Joes.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 02 July 2020, 11:29:29
Why not, there is an AC5 version after all, slap on a few AAM.

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Luciora on 02 July 2020, 12:38:09
That's the next one i have to put in my collection.  Thanks for the reminder!

Quote from: Wrangler on 02 July 2020, 10:30:10
Thunderbolt missiles definitely fit the genre. Big missiles fit. I wish the antiaircraft missiles were easier to use/mount. I could picture the F-90 Stingrays be turned into X-29 fighters for the Joes.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 02 July 2020, 13:20:04
Quote from: truetanker on 02 July 2020, 11:29:29
Why not, there is an AC5 version after all, slap on a few AAM.

TT

[staplesbutton] That was easy! [/staplesbutton]

I tried looking at the Slayer for the Night Raven, ended up crossing it with a Kirghiz.  80t 7/11 (400xxl), 5 ton compartment (whatever personnel/BA you can fit), RAC-5 & 2 ELRM-10s as main guns.

Thunderbolt? Why of course! That Joe/Cobra missile system
--trailer: 8 tons, TB-5, 10 ICE for power (did not add motive control, but then added a 'Gunner/combat seat' for same weight -- no drive, trying to keep it a combat trailer.  could go back and make it a support unit, BAR-5 armor.

I really would like a cannon Heavy Rocket System; instead of a group of missiles, just one bigger one (and a torpedo version).
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 13 July 2020, 20:26:54
Joe Time!

The VAMP Jeep toy? well it got some muscle now. (and as Daryk might say FRACTIONAL ACCOUNTING FOR ALL) ... And it mounts a Binary Laser! b/c -- It Looks Cool, Duh!
Code: [Select]
Tech Stats JOE –Fractional         Mass
Type         V.A.M.P.        31
Movement Type Wheeled
Power Plant 135 Light V-Fusion 5.063
     CRUISE 5 (54 kph) (34 mph)
     FLANK 8 (86 kph) (54 mph)
Heat Sinks 16                 6
Internal Struct 4                 3.1
Control Equip. 2 Crew                 1.55
Armor Factor 106 Heavy Ferro-fibrous 5.342
FRONT         25
RIGHT/LEFT SIDE 23/23
REAR         20
TURRET/rotor 15                 .901
(6/11 slots)
EQUIPMENT Storage -34 kg         .034
Blazer (turret)                  9
2 Spotlights (turret)         .01
      
      
      
The Wolverine Missile tank with Cover Girl was supposedly modeled after the post WWII Ontos, which was 8.6t ... rounded up to 9 (Fractional Accounting too, dudes!). Manipulators? why? I could fit them and had tonnage to use and the pilot can perform ... 'flight of the bumblebee'?
Code: [Select]
Tech Stats JOE –Fractional         Mass
Type         Wolverine          9
Movement Type Tracked
Power Plant 25 Fuel Cell          .6
     CRUISE 3 (32 kph) (20 mph)
     FLANK 5 (54 kph) (34 mph)
Heat Sinks 1
Internal Struct 1                  .9
Control Equip. 1 Crew                  .45
Other Equipment L-Amphib (2MP)          .36
Fuel 666 km
Armor Factor 51 Light Ferro-Fibrous 3.009
FRONT         11
RIGHT/LEFT SIDE 11/11
REAR         10
TURRET/rotor 8                   .151
(6/6 slots)
EQUIPMENT MML-3 (turret)          1.5
2 Spotlight (F/T)           .005
2 Manipulators (front)           .02
Ammo LRM-3 [33]                  1
Ammo SRM-3 [40]                  1

(other option is to go 2 RL-15 and redo other stuff -- easier to play with when you DON'T use fractional accounting, but the MML gives a lot more longevity in the fire support role)
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 14 July 2020, 17:50:37
Tiny tot toys presents: The Cobra Fang Ultra-Light Attack Helicopter -- It has uses.  Some better than others.  If you need to soften up worlds or probe for actual defenses or tire your opponent out with near mindless single & random strikes then here's your 'Hat'.
Code: [Select]
Tech Stats Cobra Tech E Mass
Type Fang Gyrocopter                     1.958
Movement Type VTOL
Power Plant ICE                     1.166
CRUISE 15 (162 kph) (101 mph)
FLANK 23 (242 kph) (150 mph)

Internal 1, Utra-Light             .196
Control      1 Crew                     .075
Other      AFC +0                     .006
Fuel      515 km                     .06
Armor Factor 5 BAR-8 (Tech E)     .225
FRONT         1
R/L SIDE 1/1
REAR         1
TURRET/rotor 1
(5/5 slots)
EQUIP Storage (6 kg)                     .006 (technically wasted tonnage due to slots)
4 i-MRM 2/4/6 (front)             .12
Ammo [4+10]; .53             .05
Support MG (front)             .044
2/4/6; .94 -burst
Ammo [5+100]                     .01
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 14 July 2020, 18:04:27
What do you think about a Warthog? The Joe tank buster, LB-10 ? Or RAC5?

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 14 July 2020, 20:59:08
Quote from: truetanker on 14 July 2020, 18:04:27
What do you think about a Warthog? The Joe tank buster, LB-10 ? Or RAC5?

TT

Just closed out the toy/wiki page! ... spent some time on the MOBAT, Mauler, & Grizzly
MOBAT: 55t, 5/8, Heavy Rifle, 2 HMG, 2 VGL, case, 11.625t armor (fractional acounting) -- HR for oddness, but still stings
Mauler: 37t, 6/9 (LFE), Thumper Artillery Cannon, 7.5 Reactive armor -- wanted sniper, but to big
Grizzly: 77t, 4/6 (XXL), Targeting Computer, AC-10 (w/AP and standard ammo), 4 (real) Flamers, Thunderbolt-5, 24t LFF armor -- it's a beast!

Warthog: gods, what an ugly toy! from what I see it's an amphibious infantry fighting vehicle ... tankbustin'? make that missile launcher a Thunderbolt-15 with some serious ammo.  If there's a cannon version, I'd go LB-5 or 10 w/cluster.  OR give it both, make a 2 turret vehicle. ... [edit] Heck, lets put a Thunderbolt-20 on there! (and maybe an LB-5X for range)

You have a link to what you're looking at?
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 15 July 2020, 22:32:48
Quote from: truetanker on 14 July 2020, 18:04:27
What do you think about a Warthog? The Joe tank buster, LB-10 ? Or RAC5?

TT
Are you refering to the A-10 (https://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/97/thunderbolt/)?
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 16 July 2020, 07:23:59
Oh yeah! the Rattler is already done: ... And there's a Joe version? ... later for that one then!  They do have an IFV Warthog toy too.

Code: [Select]
Cobra CF         Mass
Rattler 50
CF
300 Light V-rated 21.5
6/9

SI: 6
1 Crew                  5
VSTOL                  2.5
320 (fuel)           2
50 Light Ferro-fibrous 3
14
12/12
12

(2/2/2/2)
RAC-2 (nose)          8
4 MG (N/2A)          1.5
2 MML-3 (LW/RW)          3

Ammo RAC-2 [45]           1
Ammo MG [100]           .5
Ammo LRM-3 [40]           1
Ammo SRM-3 [33]           1

[edit] Would like to point out that my Toy years and ability to collect them were from '78-'88-ish; some of the odder and niftier stuff came out when I was a) required to spend my own money, of which I had little and b) old enough to pass on a lot of it.

Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 16 July 2020, 14:23:15
Quote from: truetanker on 14 July 2020, 18:04:27
What do you think about a Warthog? The Joe tank buster, LB-10 ? Or RAC5?

TT

NEITHER! ... I don't know what this will cost, or want to know.  But an UAC-20 (non-jam aero FTW!) and 2 ML bearing down on a first strike sounds painful to whatever it attacks.

Code: [Select]
JOE                 Mass
A-1000 ‘Buster
CF                50
350 XXL V-Fusion       15
7/11
10 SHS
SI: 7
2 Crew                 5
VSTOL                 2.5
480 (fuel)          3
49 Heavy Ferro-fibrous 2.5
13
12/12
12
Threshold (2/2/2/2)
UAC-20 (nose)        15
2 ML (nose)         2
2 PSL (aft)      2
Ammo UAC-20 [15] 3

Want some RL-10s? drop one ton of ammo and one ton of fuel (put that into fuel pods for longer distance travel, drop them before engaging ala WWII)

Code: [Select]
JOE                 Mass
A-1001 ‘Buster
CF                50
350 XXL V-Fusion       15
7/11
10 SHS
SI: 7
2 Crew                 5
VSTOL                 2.5
320 (fuel)          2
49 Heavy Ferro-fibrous 2.5
13
12/12
12
Threshold (2/2/2/2)
UAC-20 (nose)        15
2 ML (nose)         2
2 PSL (aft)      2
Ammo UAC-20 [15] 2
4 RL-10 (2RW/2LW)       2
[code]
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 16 July 2020, 20:13:59
Quote from: Wolf72 on 16 July 2020, 07:23:59
Oh yeah! the Rattler is already done: ... And there's a Joe version?

[edit] Would like to point out that my Toy years and ability to collect them were from '78-'88-ish; some of the odder and niftier stuff came out when I was a) required to spend my own money, of which I had little and b) old enough to pass on a lot of it.
Same here, but I did enjoy going into Toy R Us  :'( and Walmart and looking at the Toys, because I'm a big kid...
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 16 July 2020, 21:46:07
Quote from: DOC_Agren on 16 July 2020, 20:13:59
Same here, but I did enjoy going into Toy R Us  :'( and Walmart and looking at the Toys, because I'm a big kid...

So many things I wanted to just get, even if it was just to sit in a box! 
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 17 July 2020, 08:07:01
I have so many Stormtroopers I resticketed them Cobra!

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 17 July 2020, 10:12:20
Quote from: truetanker on 17 July 2020, 08:07:01
I have so many Stormtroopers I resticketed them Cobra!

TT

when episode 2 was about to come out and had the 15 point articulation clone troopers ... I had no/little spending cash.  Man, I would have bought dozens of them if I could.  I have about 8 or 9 from early '80's.  ... Someone invent a time machine for 'trivial use' -- we won't cheat sports events, change world events: we'll go and hoard the cool [edit] stuff!!
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 20 July 2020, 08:42:14
The coolest Joe was color changing Zartan.

He had his eyes changed from pale to the eye tattoo thingy.

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 20 July 2020, 11:26:15
Place holder: I finally have MML working (need to try SSW sometime this week too) will have BV & cost set up for:

So I've discovered some bad math on my part (lost .5 ton/1 MG-forward on the Rattler).  Also between an XXL engine and Heavy FA, I had no aft slots to put on my A-10s.  BUT you can assign weapons rear facing, so problem solved on that. (ML moved to wings, P SL moved to nose-rear facing).

Rattler:      BV 391; $4,353,625

A-1000:     BV 996; $30,193,042     

A-1001:     BV 1,061; $30,245,292
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 26 September 2020, 17:28:52
Discovery Family has GI Joe on at 5 am... Indianapolis,  IN.

 :D

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 26 September 2020, 21:38:57
Quote from: truetanker on 26 September 2020, 17:28:52
Discovery Family has GI Joe on at 5 am... Indianapolis,  IN.

 :D

TT

I dunno ... tried watching old Transformers. It was hard.  Peter Cullen's (sp) voice still a point of inspiration though.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 28 September 2020, 12:53:41
So with MASK being added to GIJOE a few years back, would the Hybrid vehicle/mech rules give the Joes something extra?
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 28 September 2020, 16:02:18
Quote from: DOC_Agren on 28 September 2020, 12:53:41
So with MASK being added to GIJOE a few years back, would the Hybrid vehicle/mech rules give the Joes something extra?

What's MASK? ... asking for a friend.

(I'm so outta touch with toys, I want to be 14 again ... sometimes)
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: DOC_Agren on 28 September 2020, 16:35:20
Mobile Armored Strike Kommand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Z1yLO9C-Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Z1yLO9C-Q)

It was kinda of best of GIJOE and Transformers... 

and yes to 14 again and able to watch all those shows again.. 

Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wolf72 on 28 September 2020, 19:03:52
Quote from: DOC_Agren on 28 September 2020, 16:35:20
Mobile Armored Strike Kommand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Z1yLO9C-Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2Z1yLO9C-Q)

It was kinda of best of GIJOE and Transformers... 

and yes to 14 again and able to watch all those shows again..

Holy burnt brain cells, Batman!  Wow.  I remember it, but with zero details -- like reading a book for English, doing the homework, passing the test (90+!) ... and never remembering anything about it afterwards.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wrangler on 29 September 2020, 06:43:31
If  i could, i'd use Lab program to make a Naval Surface Support Vehicle name the USS Montana. LOL but we'd need custom artillery to justify 16 inch guns.  I don't think Long Toms would cut the mustard for those unless your going give bonus for naval artillery shells to actually hit via spotter camera or something.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: idea weenie on 29 September 2020, 12:17:26
Quote from: Wrangler on 29 September 2020, 06:43:31
If  i could, i'd use Lab program to make a Naval Surface Support Vehicle name the USS Montana. LOL but we'd need custom artillery to justify 16 inch guns.  I don't think Long Toms would cut the mustard for those unless your going give bonus for naval artillery shells to actually hit via spotter camera or something.

Can you use the Cruise Missile rules and fluff those as the 16 inch guns?

The spotter requirement would be annoying though.  Too bad there isn't an option for super-heavy targeting computers to provide bonuses (so that at certain tonnages, they would be more efficient than the existing Targeting Computers).  Make those SHTCs have a critical slot or location requirement, to allow for potential critical hits knocking out their bonuses.
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 29 September 2020, 13:01:20
You mean like from a UAV?

TT
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: idea weenie on 29 September 2020, 13:21:34
Quote from: truetanker on 29 September 2020, 13:01:20
You mean like from a UAV?

TT

The UAV should serve as a spotter, and follow those rules for correcting fire.  I was thinking more along the lines of radar guided fire, where the radar tracks the round and adjusts before the round has landed.  Part of it would be a fixed tonnage composed of the radar guidance and Fire Director, and part of it would be the tonnage per gun to allow for better control.  A larger fixed tonnage system would mean less tonnage needed on a per-weapon basis, but the higher fixed tonnage means

An interesting idea would be allowing multiple sets of the fixed tonnage components to allow for primary and backup Fire Directors.  You need 1 ton of Fire Guidance per X weapon tons, and Y tons for a Fire Director.  If you use different generations of Fire Director (i.e. a high-quality primary and a lower quality secondary), then figure out what is the highest tonnage needed per weapon ton, and allocate that.

I.e. Fire Director version 3 needs 1 ton of weapon guidance per 6 tons of weapon tonnage, while Fire Director version 2 needs 1 ton of weapon guidance per 5 tons of weapon tonnage.  The second one requires more tonnage per weapon, so that is the tonnage needed.

If you wanted to further include regular Targeting Computers that need 1 ton per 4 tons of weapon, that tonnage would be the new requirement.

So for 600 tons of weapons, the options are:
Fire Director Mk 3: needs 100 tons of on-mount weapons guidance, plus some amount for the Fire Director
Fire Director Mk 2: needs 120 tons of on-mount weapons guidance, plus some amount for the Fire Director
IS Targeting Computers: needs 150 tons of on-mount weapons guidance, but no Fire Director needed

If you wanted just the Fire Director Mk 3 as primary and secondary, you would have the two Fire Directors, and just need 100 tons to control the weapons (as the Primary and secondary Mk3 can use the same on-mount weapons assistance).  If you wanted a Mk 3 as primary and the smaller Mk 2 as your backup, you would need a total of 120 tons (the Mk 3 can use the Mk 2 aiming systems).  If you wanted your weapons to still be able to operate even with just local control, you would need 150 tons for the Inner Sphere Targeting Computers, as both the Mk 3 and Mk 2 could use them.

There would be no stacking of targeting bonuses, you would only use the highest bonus.  So if you had 150 tons of Targeting Computer (providing a +1 to-hit), a Mk 2 Fire Director (providing a +2 to-hit), and a Mk 3 Fire Director (providing a +2 to-hit), you would only get the +2 to-hit.  If the Mk 2 gets damaged, there is no degradation of to-hit (since the Mk 3 is providing the same bonus).  Once the Mk 3 Fire Director gets hit, the target bonus gets reduced to the +1 (from the existing Targeting Computer).

(To me Fire Directors would have a tonnage range where they are optimal, but above and below that range other Fire Directors have the tonnage advantage.  I.e. if  Fire Director 2 massed 10 tons base and needed 1 ton per 5 tons of weaponry, it would only be better tonnage-wise than regular Targeting Computers when it is controlling over 200 tons of weapons.  If Fire Director 3 is 100 tons base and 1 ton per 6 tons of weapons, it becomes superior tonnage-wise when there are over 2700 tons of weapons.  I needed to make Fire Directors better than just putting Targeting Computers on everything, thus the '+2' to-hit.  The order of magnitude was to make the math easy.  Increasing the bonus for each Fire Director didn't seem to fit, so I just left them all at '+2', instead of having the Fire Director Mk 3 give '+3' to hit)
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: Wrangler on 29 September 2020, 13:41:54
What about the Recon Camera on a Boomarang. 

Technically speaking, the Montana could have a landing/pad launch pad to launch one those. It's not VTOL, but 30 meter hex can be made to do things. Montana is massively large ship if done by historical standards, us biggest template aka Template D.  Or you want get into mobile structure variety of stupid big.

I'm just being picky about the Long Toms, because direct fire is no no with that artillery, saw-off/snub nose Artillery Cannon.

I don't think the cartoon Montana had missiles though, but i don't remember fully from insanity of using the USS Constitution to try capture/destroy her.  xp

 
Title: Re: G.I. Joe / C.O.B.R.A.
Post by: truetanker on 26 February 2021, 12:56:09
Gonna leave this here. (https://www.military.com/off-duty/television/2021/02/26/first-gi-joe-live-action-series-features-army-staff-sgt-lady-jaye.html)

TT
Yo Joe!