The Free Worlds League: Winning with what we've got!

[Weirdo]

Some people like to play with the toughest, fastest, most perfectly sinked mechs out there. Others(especially many FWL players) see less efficient designs as a challenge, and relish the skill needed to fight and win when you have to rely on teamwork to cover individual weaknesses, and tactics to defeat brute armor. If you're in the latter group, this thread is for you!

Do you enjoy fielding Anvils? Does your group actually respect the power of the Jackal, or Grand Titan? Do your Yeomen inspire more jokes about the weather than culinary tools? Have you made people cringe at the thought of staring down Siroccos?

Give us your thoughts, and tell us your stories! O0

(Note: this thread isn't just about inefficient designs. It is simply meant to be a place where people can talk about the League units they like, without getting slammed by people who only stick to more optimized things.)

[False Son]

Well, no.  I'll do just fine with FWLM canon units but under no circumstances would I brag about that.

[Weirdo]

Which one?

[MarikMilitaMan]

Thanks for the thread Weirdo.

I take great pride in beating my Davion playing mates Medium Lance (Wolverine-8D/Shadow Hawk-5D/Enforcer-5D/Centurion-9D) with my FWLM Medium Lance (Wolverine-7M/Shadow Hawk-7M/Griffin-5M/Trebuchet-7M), whilst it doesn't happen all the time I can usually pull out a win about a third of the time.

Quick question though, i've not used the Apollo, would anyone recommend any of the versions available in the late 3060's to replace the Trebuchet?

[GespenstM]

(It is simply meant to be a place where people can talk about the League units they like, without getting slammed by people who only stick to more optimized things.)

I'm going to point out a few things about this line of thought, and some related topics.

1 - There are multiple flavors of 'optimal.' Back in 3055, there were only one or two forms; 16 double heatsinks with twin ERPPCs and a bunch of medium or ER Medium lasers. Massed Gauss. LBX AC spam as a third form perhaps. Now that variant armor and many new weapons exist, 'optimal' is no longer a clear-cut thing. Instead, you're starting to see varying matchups where Mech X has advantage over Mech Y but loses to Mech Z... kind of like a fighting game, in a way.

The idea that the Jackal is a bad Mech is absurd. Well, the original -1532 model was, but every other config since then has had some use.

2 - It's not a bad thing to want decent designs. There's a difference between being upset we're not getting "clearly the favored faction of the writers" designs like FedCom did back in 3055, and being upset we're getting obvious junk. Thankfully, 'obvious junk' is largely a thing of the past. We're getting decent, playable machines now and dwelling on the few remaining junkers isn't something I intend to do. I'd rather focus on the wide variety of good machines we now have. Few match the traditional 'form of optimal' I mentioned above, but they are legitimately good.

FWL players can't really pull the Low Tier Hero routine anymore. Yes, our GRF-5M and such still suck unbelievably hard, but we're no longer required by fluff/distribution-tables/RAT/etc. to be saddled with these as our main machines. We're a viable faction now, and the only real faction we're at a quality disparity issue with these days is perhaps the Klingon Wolf Empire, and even that isn't an insurmountable one.

To answer MarikMilitiaMan's question: There's a ELRM config of the Apollo that I find worthwhile in its mission role. Adding one or two of these per every 36 Mechs or so is a fine way to clink glass bottles and tell opponents: "Warrrioooorrrssss.... come out to play-aaaayyyy..."

[Scotty]

I want to like ELRMs, I really do.  I just can't like how heavy the launchers are.  I'd take a pretty significant cluster table hit if I could mount them in larger tube counts.

But at least they're not NLRMs. :D

[MarikMilitaMan]

To answer MarikMilitiaMan's question: There's a ELRM config of the Apollo that I find worthwhile in its mission role. Adding one or two of these per every 36 Mechs or so is a fine way to clink glass bottles and tell opponents: "Warrrioooorrrssss.... come out to play-aaaayyyy..."

Which version is that? And what's the intro date?

[Weirdo]

Honestly, I'd stick with the Treb. You've got a good high-mobility thing going with that lance. The Apollo loses the Trebuchet's mobility in return for armor and endurance, but I don't think it would work well here. It can't keep up with your other mechs, so it would either get left behind(and it lacks the close-range defenses to survive being caught solo), or protecting it would tie the rest of your lance down, robbing them of their mobility.

[Scotty]

Wait, do we get those?

 8)

[Weirdo]

...

[GespenstM]

Do we get what? I don't see Weirdo saying "do we get those" in the thread? I did a Ctrl-F for 'get those', no results beyond your quote.

[MarikMilitaMan]

Do we get what? I don't see Weirdo saying "do we get those" in the thread? I did a Ctrl-F for 'get those', no results beyond your quote.

Think its the Uziel-8S from the other FWL thread.

[Weirdo]

Yup, sorry. Mmmm...fast twin-PPC goodness... {>{>

[Scotty]

Yup, sorry. Mmmm...fast twin-PPC goodness... {>{>

Oooooh no, sorry buddy.  That's the -2S.  The -8S is the 5/8/8 model with four MPLs. ^-^

[GespenstM]

On the other hand, the Uziel -8S is about as close to an 'updated Anvil' as we may see for a while. It's not my kind of Mech, but it's not bad.

[Scotty]

It's an incredible backstabber.  I'd hesitate to call it "perfect", given that the -2S exists and I'm not a fan of pulse laser ranges, but the high jump range coupled with accuracy boosting weapons means that it can get behind something and rip it to pieces with contemptuous ease.

[Weirdo]

Sounds like something that would be the heavy guy in a lance of Spiders, Havocs, and their ilk, or a companion to a Wraith.

Any chance we get the -2S?

[Scotty]

Sadly no, except as salvage (which isn't out of the question).  It's FedSuns, Lyran, Mercenaries, and the Republic.

[Weirdo]

Ah well.

[Decoy]

Pfft. If it's available to Mercenaries, then it's one shell company away from your forces.

[Scotty]

Yeah. :(  Probably my single favorite Inner Sphere 'Mech and variant.  I figure with salvage (because a -3S isn't hard to take down or salvage) you could conceivably find one or two in a regiment on the border.

[GespenstM]

Pfft. If it's available to Mercenaries, then it's one shell company away from your forces.

I've personally interpreted Mercenary MUL listing, if your faction doesn't also have the unit, as something like "your faction does not procure this unit in significant numbers. Officers and ace pilots might be able to get one sent to them as a special purchase, but your force shouldn't be fielding more than one of this thing."

[Molossian Dog IIC]

I want to like ELRMs, I really do.  I just can't like how heavy the launchers are.  I'd take a pretty significant cluster table hit if I could mount them in larger tube counts.

But at least they're not NLRMs. :D

Same here. When I heard about the ELRMs my first thought was "Uuuh, so updated, longer ranged lurms! (yes, the u is neccessary in there) I bet that is TPTB´s way of finally giving us a signature weapon..."

Then I checked the stats and went to: "No. Please don´t Don´t make that our signature weapon, I beg you."

[GespenstM]

You only need a few to achieve the desired effect. They're an anti-camp weapon. Roll a unit up with ELRMs, pelt opponent with a few from ranges they can't fire back at.

One such ELRM unit per 2-3 companies will probably suffice to achieve this.

[Molossian Dog IIC]

Yes, I know. It is a gimmick.

Basing your whole tactic and/or doctrine on a gimmick would be a recipe for disaster. Hence my hope we don´t get burdened with too much of the stuff.

[Scotty]

Well it's not like we're required to use those gimmicks.  We have a good stable of solid, useful 'Mechs to support them.  Even if we do get a bunch, that's variety in terms of delivery system.

Also I have a sudden mighty need to see an Uziel in Covenant Guards colors.

[nckestrel]

I think Molosian just doesn't want a repeat of Phoenix, where suddenly everything is light gauss equipped.  Marik has the Apollo and the Pandarus with ELRMs.  It doesn't really need a Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Warhammer, Marauder, Battlemaster, etc all with ELRMs.

[Alexander Knight]

Marik has the -9M2.  Whyfore do they need another Marauder?   :)

[Scotty]

I think Molosian just doesn't want a repeat of Phoenix, where suddenly everything is light gauss equipped.  Marik has the Apollo and the Pandarus with ELRMs.  It doesn't really need a Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Warhammer, Marauder, Battlemaster, etc all with ELRMs.

Understandable.  I think I'd actually like an Archer with ELRMs, though.  One big rack in one torso, and a battery of perhaps SRMs in the other?

EDIT: You can fit an ELRM-20 with four tons, three SRM-6s with two tons (because really they aren't the idea here), and CASE II for both sets of ammo bins if you shave one point of armor off the center torso of a -6S.  I'd use it.

[GespenstM]

Well, there are a few things helping us out in that regard.

One, we're pretty good at communicating and explaining how we feel about FWL designs.

Two, this isn't the FASA era and the people developing BattleTech these days appear to be listening to us. They might not give us everything we ask for, they might have a 'big picture' thing going on that guides their decisions... but some of them stop by here and talk with us. Or if not the ones at the very top, the people who work under them show up here and notice how we feel.

Aside from cases where Dark Age materials forced bad designs, I think the last time we got insultingly bad, obvious garbage was the WLF-3M and that was a few years ago. Most of our other stuff ranges from "Clearly good", "Good if you put in the work to figure this machine's play style out" and "tolerable in BV-oriented games."

It's pretty clear the folks making BattleTech in 2015 have received the message. They get it; we're sick of garbage Mechs and having an ill-conceived over-use of specialized weapons as our primary factional trait. Aside from a handful of clunkers, which EVERY faction gets from time to time these days, they've figured it out and have quit insulting us with nonstop trash designs.

Apparently they figured out that giving every faction something fun and reasonably effective is a good way to retain customers.