How is tank operation different in BT?

[The Wobbly Guy]

Let me muddy the waters further... omnivehicles!

Let's say we put just one or two big guns for one config... then what do the rest of the crew do?

OTOH, if it's a config with lots of small guns pointed in all directions, then a crew of even five might not cut it.

[Alan Grant]

Let me muddy the waters further... omnivehicles!

Let's say we put just one or two big guns for one config... then what do the rest of the crew do?

OTOH, if it's a config with lots of small guns pointed in all directions, then a crew of even five might not cut it.

I actually don't think it muddies it much at all... as long as you are willing to accept the idea that the vehicle crew count may be variable based on other factors. You just have to be willing to accept that a different variant might require less or more crew members. That your crew could actually vary based on that. Slapping on one set of modules to create Variant B of some vehicle might mean you need one less gunner. Or one more.

I know that's not what the rules say but I'm starting to think the 1 per 15 tons rule is more like evaluating a car based on how many seats it has. I might be shopping for a car and see that it has 4 seats. That doesn't it's always carrying 4 people when it's on the road every single time. It just means it has capacity for 4 people.

I'm starting to perceive the 1 per 15 rule that way. It's still a good guideline but an extreme level of extraction based solely on vehicle weight and no other factors. But it might be perceived as a rule for determining maximum crew capacity and a general idea of a crew count, rather than an exact number.

If the BT writers ever got to the level of truly detailing each make/model vehicle based on other factors. Electronics, number and type and placement of weapons. At a ruleset like that, I think same-weight vehicles (and variants, including Omni variants) would have very different number of crew members and cew composition. The current rule is a... frankly oversimplified... abstraction.

[theagent]

A few notes. Current configurations of the Abrams are pushing 80 tons and the 75 ton threshold for a 5th crewmember was met over a decade ago. And the tank plenty of capacity for more. I guess 240 ton engine is a 320 ton engine ;)

It's not really that big a deal, but the loader's MG can only engage targets from about the 2 o'clock to 7 o'clock in relation to the turret's orientation due to how it's mounted.
Doctrinally, the loader's MG is primarily considered a self defense weapon for use when the tank is stationary in a battle position and enemies become visible at close range when attempting to assault or bypass the tank. The commander's MG is designated as an anit-aircraft MG, with one of its roles to throw enough DANGER!^TM at an enemy pilot that they think better of risking actually being hit and pull away before they can land hits on the tank. It's also a primary weapon for interim effects on soft targets where expending a main gun round might be wasteful.

Didn't say it was perfect, but I would imagine that there were some penalties.  You bump a near-60 metric ton tank up to 75 metric tons without increasing the HP/torque output of its engine, it's going to see the speed drop...which, for example, would be seen in CBT by having a 60-ton tank with a Vlar 300 (5/8) upgraded to a 75-ton tank & same engine seeing a speed decrease (4/6). 

Wasn't 100% sure on the limitations of the top-mounted MGs...but in either case, even their limitations still allow them to fire at targets that aren't directly in front of whatever direction the main gun is facing, which means that they can still hit 3 separate targets (or groups of targets) simultaneously...& still falling into the rules.

Either way, just trying to point out that there might have been more behind the rulings than just a "well, this is the crew sizes that we have now, so that's what we'll go with".

[Hellraiser]

or one big one.

Let me know if you can find a unit that uses single round fire, I've never heard of one.
Auto-Cannon kind of implies "Automatic" in the name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocannon

[Middcore]

Let me know if you can find a unit that uses single round fire, I've never heard of one.

Off the top of my head, an LB-X autocannon is explicitly described as firing a single big round in the novel Embers of War.

Let's not go down the "How do Battletech autocannon REALLY work?" road, though, because that road leads inevitably to madness.

[RifleMech]

The 4 tread Demolisher from MW1 is the MkI version and has a crew of 6. The 2 tread Demolisher in TRO:3026 is the MkII version and has a crew of 7 but the fluff does say the crew number varies, often with fewer crew. I think that goes with the Variant Section where it talks about popular updates being automatic shell loaders and a combined commander/gunner position.

[The Wobbly Guy]

I tend towards Alan's take. We have Fraticide, and that example of a clanner who won his bloodname in an Athena tank.

So the crew figures are max limits, but can get by wth less.

[RifleMech]

I'd say the crew numbers were the minimum as different equipment, like communications equipment, increase the crew size.

[Metallgewitter]

Wanted to dust this off as I found some notes in the 3060 TRO for the clan tanks. For example for the Zorya tank it states that this tank has 3 men crews: a driver, a gunner and a commander. It also states that the commander handles ECM warfare while giving the gunner targets which will then dispaly on the gunners hud as priority targets as the gunner has his own 360 degreee vision HUD. And i flipped through all Clan tanks in that book and most Clan tanks in that book seem to have a 3 men creew (well the exception were the Shamash with a 1 man crew and the Odin with two men crews) Most interesting: the one Omni tank (the Epona) requires a much longer training for the tank crews as the Omni flexibility requires each crew man to be more flexible then a standard tank where each crew task is strictly defined.

[CarcosanDawn]

I am stuck trying to figure out why the Soarece has a 12 man crew..


A driver, vehicle commander, gunner (maybe two for the CROW AC/2)...

And then a bunch of engineers for reasons? Maybe it's just that big....
"Driver, ahead full!"
"Yes, commander! - engine room, pour on the hydrogen, need more from the boilers"
*Cut to eleven people throwing perfectly good hydrogen fuel cells into a steam engine boiler*

[Maingunnery]

I am stuck trying to figure out why the Soarece has a 12 man crew..


A driver, vehicle commander, gunner (maybe two for the CROW AC/2)...

And then a bunch of engineers for reasons? Maybe it's just that big....
"Driver, ahead full!"
"Yes, commander! - engine room, pour on the hydrogen, need more from the boilers"
*Cut to eleven people throwing perfectly good hydrogen fuel cells into a steam engine boiler*

Well it is a 175 ton tank with Difficult to Maintain & Non-Standard Parts quirks, so all those extra crew are likely just the technicians it needs for normal operations.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Onboard mechanics for when it breaks down.

[CarcosanDawn]

Amazing that they can get the legs and feet of a mech to survive centuries but still haven't figured out mechanical transmissions and wheels...

But there is a funny image now too of them having mechanics on board just snoozing in bunks or whatever until it breaks. Amazing!

I wonder if it has living spaces for them so when it is on a dropship it can take its own technical team internaly, like a Russian Doll. With 9 seats free, each Soarece can have one team for itself and a second shift for that astech team too...

[Metallgewitter]

Amazing that they can get the legs and feet of a mech to survive centuries but still haven't figured out mechanical transmissions and wheels...

But there is a funny image now too of them having mechanics on board just snoozing in bunks or whatever until it breaks. Amazing!

I wonder if it has living spaces for them so when it is on a dropship it can take its own technical team internaly, like a Russian Doll. With 9 seats free, each Soarece can have one team for itself and a second shift for that astech team too...

Funny enough the Jihad version of the Thumper SPG states it has crew accomodations including a mini kitchen so the crew can relax between missions with soundproofing and sound filters

[Arkansas Warrior]

"mini kitchen" sounds like a good sales pitch, which in actuality translates to "compact microwave" or even "place to vent your MRE so that you can use the heater in a confined space."

[BrianDavion]

proably a combat microwave, a mini fridge and maybe if it's real luxerious a small tap for water so you can fill a coffee pot

[Minemech]

 one or two toaster ovens would be a distinct possibility. They are strikingly versatile and relatively cheap.

[idea weenie]

One thing I'd expect tanks to keep handy is a map of all sorts of places where a level 1 unit can duck under, but a 2-level tall unit (Battlemech) can't go.  Nothing like driving your vehicle through a friendly and convenient smoke cloud while being chased by a Clan mech, seeing that you are driving through an underpass, and hearing the 'CRUNCH' behind you as the Clan mech runs into the overpass.

[Arkansas Warrior]

That would require some *really* detailed intel.  Maybe if you're a militia unit defending your home world or something, but I really doubt attacking units, or defending units that hadn't spent years on-planet, would have that sort of detail in their maps.

[paladin2019]

That's what route reconnaissance is for 

As for the mech, what's the bridge's CF?

[Gorgon]

That's what route reconnaissance is for 

As for the mech, what's the bridge's CF?

And does the ramming damage resolve on the punch table  It would be a neat trick to pull off and good use of smoke, but limited to the RPG, I guess.

[paladin2019]

The bridge has CF, it's a building and those rules apply.