IOW, a 'Mook' mech?
Or at least one that can spot ambushes...?
You know where the enemies are when your Pathfinders drop out of contact with you :Preplace Pathfinders with Wasps/Stingers/Locusts and that pretty much sums up scouting in the 3rd and 4th succession wars..
replace Pathfinders with Wasps/Stingers/Locusts and that pretty much sums up scouting in the 3rd and 4th succession wars..True, but it isn't like the Active Probe really changes this. The 'Mech isn't fast and tough enough to really run away or survive.
True, but it isn't like the Active Probe really changes this. The 'Mech isn't fast and tough enough to really run away or survive.
Though admittedly this is a result of the game rules. I assume the Beagle Active Probe really adds long range sensors to 'Mechs as well, along with other useful stuff that can't be really represented with game rules.
Switching to all-modern construction would free 3.5 tons after maxed out armor. 4 tons, if you don't waste half a ton for single point of armor.
Either way, this would allow for TAG, a Guardian ECM suite, and another ERML or perhaps swapping the laser for a medium X-pulse laser, to create a full-blown scout/EWAR 'Mech that shares many parts with the Commando.
I'm really surprised there isn't a post-Jihad upgrade to the Pathfinder. Either an entirely new build or at least an armor overhaul.
Switching to all-modern construction would free 3.5 tons after maxed out armor. 4 tons, if you don't waste half a ton for single point of armor.Just to check my understanding, other than flavor, c-bill cost and BV cost, are there any advantages to Retrotech?
Either way, this would allow for TAG, a Guardian ECM suite, and another ERML or perhaps swapping the laser for a medium X-pulse laser, to create a full-blown scout/EWAR 'Mech that shares many parts with the Commando.
Just to check my understanding, other than flavor, c-bill cost and BV cost, are there any advantages to Retrotech?
In which case: Can't you build something better?Well, limited production capacity i think is one of the problems. Primitive Mech is like using today technology with some advanced ones (to us) and slapping legs and arms on it.
Oh, but that aside: It's got pretty competitive looks.
X-pulse lasers become "common" in 3082 per IO, so they should be available. Of course, ER lasers are older tech and likely simpler and easier.
"Make sure you try to make your engine explode when you die. The smoke makes for a great scout marker."We call that a "Flaming Datum".
(I'm presuming primitive engines follow the same rules as a standard or XL for purposes of engine explosion rules, but as I typed the above I realized I wasn't 100% sure.)
Just to check my understanding, other than flavor, c-bill cost and BV cost, are there any advantages to Retrotech?
If they sent them off to militias, they could just drop them from the books; not likely anyone will ever come to check. Of course, then you can't do any fancy refits like fitting them with new armour, so that'll only happen if the world they're on has the industrial capability for that.
When you're drawing down your armies, putting a 'mook' (to use the earlier term) into full production instead of something more useful like, say, Razorbacks or Hollanders isn't a great use of scarce resources. This was a design intended to fill the gaps during a particularly devastating war, and when the war was over it was done. (Think destroyer escorts and escort carriers post-1945. They filled their role, and afterwards they were retired quickly- and no more were built once the need passed.)
Out of universe, not really. It'd be like producing M4 Shermans to supplement M1 Abrams production. Sure you can do it, but it's pointless.If my finance and manufacturing people are telling me they can't give me the enough of the M1's I need, but they can supplement them with a passel of M4's, I would inquire how many M60's I could get for that money.
Out of universe, not really. It'd be like producing M4 Shermans to supplement M1 Abrams production. Sure you can do it, but it's pointless.
In all honesty, my best thoughts would be, as a field upgrade, to replace the Primitive Armor with 4.5 tons of Standard (slight armor increase) and throw a Guardian ECM in one of the Torsos. I haven't speced it out yet.The Armor would be one thing, it makes difference such as in case of another RetroTech mech, like the Rook. There standard tech version and high tech one. Given they lost like 100 primitives trying stop an invasion, i think upgrading Pathfinder would add it more life on the field.
But that kind of upgrade should be with in most militias capabilities, shouldn't it?
The Armor would be one thing, it makes difference such as in case of another RetroTech mech, like the Rook. There standard tech version and high tech one. Given they lost like 100 primitives trying stop an invasion, i think upgrading Pathfinder would add it more life on the field.
You run into a sort of primitive version of Apollo's Law then though- if upgrading to standard tech is the only way to make this thing useful, is it worth those resources to begin with?Well, no, it isn't.
My ideal fate for the Pathfinder would be for the primitive model to remain in production for local militias, and any updated model be produced solely for export, selling them to mercs, Periphery militaries, and in true Lyran fashion anyone with the cash.
Stuff like the Pathfinder? You gotta think when you use one, and that leads to...ideas.Ideas? This doesn't have anything really weird on-board. Heck, it weighs too much to be easily thrown.
Ideas? This doesn't have anything really weird on-board. Heck, it weighs too much to be easily thrown.
Time to design a support vehicle trebuchet...
The point of RetroTech was that the factories in question were civilian-grade, and even 3025-level stuff was too much for them to handle without unacceptable retooling delays.
To extend your metaphor, you don't have enough M1s, the factory currently putting out Ford Mustangs can start giving you M4s as early as next week, but if you want M60s you won't see a single one for at least a year...and the enemy army is a month away.
And the M-4s mount a modern main gun.M-50 Super Sherman's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sherman) basically, with the long 75mm guns.
Yeah, but what other electronics loaded scout would be available on the merc market?according to the MUL, during the early republic era, Mercenaries had easy access to the following Probe equipped Mechs..
Well, no, it isn't.
But, in the case of a light scout, it is useful to begin with - you're just making it a bit more useful, or in this case, more survivable, so that it can be useful for longer.
I see an armour upgrade in that light - whenever something breaks, replace it with the equivalent standard armour, and the whole cover once that happens often enough; Armour takes damage first, and if that militia is in any way actually using their Pathfinders, that damage will accumulate, so, in relative peace, why not supply it with milspec plate that the militia hopefully has access to, anyways. I could see them not even using the freed up weight, just the durability would be a boon already.
If you think about a serious upgrade, I think we indeed reach the point where it is more sensible to replace the entire machine. Could just take an old Commando and pull a missile launcher for a probe and ecm.
Ideas? This doesn't have anything really weird on-board. Heck, it weighs too much to be easily thrown.
/snipIsn't listing all three superfluous? I mean, Owens already mount BAP as hard-mounted kit, so every Owens already comes stock with it-even customs that some enterprising tech didn't turn into standard battlemechs with ill-advised "Improvisation".
Owens OW-1A
Owens OW-1B
Owens OW-1D
/snip
replace Pathfinders with Wasps/Stingers/Locusts and that pretty much sums up scouting in the 3rd and 4th succession wars..It defines scouts in just about every wargame of some sort and I'm pretty sure real life as well, and it also raises the question of why people build scout 'Mechs, after all life is cheap, 'Mechs ain't.
It defines scouts in just about every wargame of some sort and I'm pretty sure real life as well, and it also raises the question of why people build scout 'Mechs, after all life is cheap, 'Mechs ain't.Well, most of the "detect enemy by blowing up" scouts were made during the Star League - when mech were cheap... ;)
It defines scouts in just about every wargame of some sort and I'm pretty sure real life as well, and it also raises the question of why people build scout 'Mechs, after all life is cheap, 'Mechs ain't.
You know the Pathfinder might make a good civil defense unit. Replace the laser and BAP with a fluid gun and ton of ammo...wait. Can't. Need another half ton. Crap.
Or the ability to get through fire & water obstacles . . . Prims can do that, right?
Or the ability to get through fire & water obstacles . . . Prims can do that, right?
Also, hands.
You know the Pathfinder might make a good civil defense unit. Replace the laser and BAP with a fluid gun and ton of ammo...wait. Can't. Need another half ton. Crap.
Take it out of the armor. A single half-ton of armor isn't gonna make any real difference in how fast this thing explode under enemy guns. xp
Did they build a new factory to make the engine for this 'Mech?
Huh, i didn't delete this one? Oh, well. I'll let it stay up. Completely forgot ever even wrote this thing.
(My other articles are waiting to get rewritten or whatever.)
Nope.Huh, then how does the primitive engine inefficiency work out then?
Huh, then how does the primitive engine inefficiency work out then?
Huh, then how does the primitive engine inefficiency work out then?