BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: Cidwm on 02 February 2011, 15:59:58
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Star Adders sound off.
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True home for us!
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What do you think, for such a huge Clan, economic and military powerhouse, we have only designed a small number of homegrown designs, if of high quality.
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Aff
Its good to see an old school poster. :)
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you guys didn't like the name of your other thread? :P
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Stop trolling to get post count man.
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I dunno, I found it highly entertaining.
I am curious to see what Adder fans think their fate might be.
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Leading a new invasion of the Inner Sphere.
That time a successful }:)
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Stop trolling to get post count man.
relax bro, it was a joke. no need to be so sensitive.
you good now?
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Leading a new invasion of the Inner Sphere.
That time a successful }:)
With no info even up to the darkage era on any of the home clans i don't expect much.
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Shockatime
seeing as that i live in a combat zone where we take IDF and i have been almost killed before, i am always relaxed son. How about you? you good?
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Hail and Cheers Adders all the rest are dust and ash
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Shockatime
seeing as that i live in a combat zone where we take IDF and i have been almost killed before, i am always relaxed son. How about you? you good?
you have no idea how many times that "i'm in combat" excuse has been used before. I couldn't care less if you're in a warzone or sitting right beside me. You treat the people on this forum with respect and that means not freaking out over a small joke.
As for how I am, I can't really complain, a little cold and the roads are a little slippery but other than it's all good.
and how old are you? are you even allowed to call me 'son'?
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Hail and Cheers Adders all the rest are dust and ash
To be scattered to the four winds...
Welcome Damocles
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you have no idea how many times that "i'm in combat" excuse has been used before. I couldn't care less if you're in a warzone or sitting right beside me. You treat the people on this forum with respect and that means not freaking out over a small joke.
As for how I am, I can't really complain, a little cold and the roads are a little slippery but other than it's all good.
and how old are you? are you even allowed to call me 'son'?
Oh no look out!! I think the kids feelings have been hurt. I might be in danger. :D
Wow and i wasn't even freaking just saying don't troll.
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Oh no look out!! I think the kids feelings have been hurt. I might be in danger. :D
Wow and i wasn't even freaking just saying don't troll.
you're the only one trolling here pops. this is the most irrational discussion i've ever been in, all because you're so rediculously sensitive over a fictional faction.
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seeing as that i live in a combat zone where we take IDF and i have been almost killed before, i am always relaxed son. How about you? you good?
by the beard of kerensky, are people still using this excuse/reason :-X [metalhealth]
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Both of you.
KNOCK IT OFF.
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Roger
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Ahhh home at last!!! :D ;)
*brings in keg of beer*
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Welcome torthkin :P
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Finally I can relax with my throthkin!
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With no info even up to the darkage era on any of the home clans i don't expect much.
That is an advantage, I believe. The whole upcoming story of What-has-happened-with-Homeclans is going to be told us by authors who I trust in telling us great stories and giving the universe the right (IMHO) "feeling", not like the original DA was done (IMHO).
Just remember, "blind spots" we have not been told so far, have great a future potential.
And, I am sure that at least some Adder bloodlines have survived ;)
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That is an advantage, I believe. The whole upcoming story of What-has-happened-with-Homeclans is going to be told us by authors who I trust in telling us great stories and giving the universe the right (IMHO) "feeling", not like the original DA was done (IMHO).
Just remember, "blind spots" we have not been told so far, have great a future potential.
And, I am sure that at least some Adder bloodlines have survived ;)
Yeah i can agree with that. The authors have done a really nice job fixing the DA time line to have a better "feeling". Hopefully we get some great stories on the home clans sometime in the immediate future seeing as there hasn't been anything for awhile to move forward their stories, though i wont hold my breath just yet. ;)
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The thing about lack of design bothers me for sure. See, the Nova Cats, yes, those that betrayed the Clans, left the HWs and now live in a habitat in Irece Prefecture, cranked out dozens of new designs, while viable Clans, except perhaps the Falcons, get only few. I find that not very logical, do you?
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The thing about lack of design bothers me for sure. See, the Nova Cats, yes, those that betrayed the Clans, left the HWs and now live in a habitat in Irece Prefecture, cranked out dozens of new designs, while viable Clans, except perhaps the Falcons, get only few. I find that not very logical, do you?
Devil's advocate, those are arguably the only designs they'll have easy access to (barring trade with the Sharks). Plus, the Wolves hadn't really set up major IS factories by the time of the Jihad, the Horses and Ravens were forced to rebuild on the move (by you guys, if I'm not mistaken), the Sharks seem to be focusing more on revamping secondline designs, and we don't have a lot of info coming from the Homeworlds (which means plenty of designs we aren't gonna immediately know about). Who does that leave to get stuff? Falcons (bleck).
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There's a few factors to take into account with those new Nova Cat designs. 1.) Who knows what's going on in the home worlds. The Cats are simply more visable. 2.) The Cats had to rebuild post abjurement and lost access to much of their old manufacturing and supply. Rabids seem to be an attempt to reproduce Elemental BA within the constraints of existing infastructure and supply. 3.) Many are just new variants of existing chassis so minimal development was required. 4.) Many, including the variants, were produced with assistance from outside groups. Most notably the Diamond Sharks. 5.) Some of the new designs were just attempts to produce a home grow version of an existing mech (Ocelot for example).
Off the top of my head, the only completely from scratch new designs made without any outside help are the Arbalest, Sphinx, Thunderbird BA, and the Shoden and Joust vehicles.
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That and we dont have the resources to produce mass quantities of those designs anyways.
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Klingon, checking in.
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But why should we need new designs ? There are enough omni chassis around that could fit all needed requirements. I would happy to hear we have fight some trials to get hand on some missing chassis, so that we can produce all we need for our own.
Developing countless new designs where is no need for, isn't the way we clans should go. I always liked the idee that Adders focus on the best that is. Developing just the few designs that fill some gaps.
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@ Wotan:
What gaps shall be filled in your opinion?
Because we can not build the Timberwolf, I would like to get a similar design. 70t with speed of 5/8, no jumpsets, endo steel chassis, FF armor.
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@ Wotan:
What gaps shall be filled in your opinion?
Because we can not build the Timberwolf, I would like to get a similar design. 70t with speed of 5/8, no jumpsets, endo steel chassis, FF armor.
There are better designs. Mad Dog is much better, IMO.
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I Love the Mad Dog. Especially the D config in these modern days. Most optimized? No. Incredibly fun to play? Yes, indeed...
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I've been all about the Stormcrow and Nova these days. Stormcrow C and B are killer, C being my favorite. Nova Prime, A and B are also my favorites (The B isn't all that bad and for some reason I've had some good luck with it in MegaMek vs the Bot, where most of my games have been because my group is gone). I'll back them with Fire Moth, Kit Fox and Mist Lynx. When I venture outside of the medium and light category, Mad Dog, Warhawk and Executioner are great. I actually prefer the mixed weapons layout offered with the Warhawk A. Executioner is just great.
I will never, EVER, resort to using a Timber Wolf no matter what.
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Make it 5 tons heavier, and you could just steal the Sphinx design.
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I've been all about the Stormcrow and Nova these days. Stormcrow C and B are killer, C being my favorite. Nova Prime, A and B are also my favorites (The B isn't all that bad and for some reason I've had some good luck with it in MegaMek vs the Bot, where most of my games have been because my group is gone). I'll back them with Fire Moth, Kit Fox and Mist Lynx. When I venture outside of the medium and light category, Mad Dog, Warhawk and Executioner are great. I actually prefer the mixed weapons layout offered with the Warhawk A. Executioner is just great.
I will never, EVER, resort to using a Timber Wolf no matter what.
Stormcrow, and Nova are two of the best clan mechs available, fact.
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Make it 5 tons heavier, and you could just steal the Sphinx design.
As if a true Clanner would steal anything! Remember where you are and you are talking to! [tickedoff] ;)
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I agree, that the Maddog is an excellent OmniMech, but I would like an heavy Omnimech, which is fast and well armoured. A 70t Mech with maiximum armor protection could field 29t pod capacity (FF armor, Endosteel chassis, 14 DHS and XL engine).
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FF armor is... inefficient. Standard armor with 13.5 tons leaves you 1 point shy of max (or 14 tons will waste 7 points). And agreed, the fixed chassis shouldn't have jump jets, although some of the variants very well could.
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It is not much known about our production lines. Looking to the RAT of FM:U it seems we have good access to Mad Dogs and Cauldron-Borns. So i assume there is no need to search for another mech in this categorie.
But for the faster tactics of our Burrocks we are in desperate need for fast designs i think. Vipers or Shadowcats seems to be missing in our production lines. Also within our light ranks there is no really fast design to transport BAs.
But i have no idea which ASF we can build. We have one of the biggest naval assets, but their is no ASF mentioned to be build in mass by the Adders. I think our ground forces are more or less good maintained. But our ASF ?
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Cloud Cobra is friends with Star Adder because of the Burrock absorption and they use the Fire Moth, Mist Lynx and Kit fox. I'm also positive that Clan Burrock used them given their medium/light preference and alliance with Cloud Cobra. I would say it is safe to use them in the touman for that reason plus the fact that they are general Clan OmniMechs.
Plus, "Hussar Clusters" are basically light and medium Burrock units, right? Seems Star Adder used Clan Burrock to patch up the weaknesses in their touman.
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As if a true Clanner would steal anything! Remember where you are and you are talking to! [tickedoff] ;)
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Which once again brings up the debate, "Does it count as stealing if you hit them over the head with your club first?"
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Seems Star Adder used Clan Burrock to patch up the weaknesses in their touman.
More like to plug the big holes the Blood Spirits ripped into it, but it had the side effect of diversifying the touman. I don't think the Adders cared for it too much though. They packed off a lot of Burrocks into Upsilon Galaxy and sent them roaming.
Which once again brings up the debate, "Does it count as stealing if you hit them over the head with your club first?"
As long as it's backed up with all the standard ritual rigmarole, and some kind of Trial that's at least within earshot of the honorable Clan combat ideal, it's OK.
Skip the protocols though and it's banditry. The Clans are very big on manners.
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As long as it's backed up with all the standard ritual rigmarole, and some kind of Trial that's at least within earshot of the honorable Clan combat ideal, it's OK.
Skip the protocols though and it's banditry. The Clans are very big on manners.
Clan Dire Boar: 'Ey, you! Down there! Wif da shiny! We gonna take dat shiny usin' dis club!
Clan Combustion Gerbil: Nuh uh! Not if we use dis rock wot smashes 'eads in!
*Five minutes later*
Clan Combustion Gerbil: Da shiny is yers, fair and square, smelly pigheads.
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More like to plug the big holes the Blood Spirits ripped into it, but it had the side effect of diversifying the touman. I don't think the Adders cared for it too much though. They packed off a lot of Burrocks into Upsilon Galaxy and sent them roaming.
69th Dragoon Cluster, Beta Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
133rd Hussar Cluster, Beta Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
206th Hussar Cluster, Delta Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
193rd Dragoon Cluster, Epsilon Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
212th Battle Cluster, Epsilon Galaxy (Mostly Burrock warriors)
471st Adder Guards, Epsilon Galaxy(Mostly Burrock warriors)
1009th Adder Sentinels, Kappa Galaxy (Created from a group of Burrock warriors)
1015th Adder Sentinels, Xi Galaxy (Former Burrock Beta Galaxy Cluster)
1143rd Garrison Cluster, Sigma Galaxy (Former 82nd Burrock Guards)
1114th Gatekeeper Cluster, Tau Galaxy (Created from a group of Burrock warriors)
EDIT: That's two full Galaxies of Burrock warriors. Two clusters went to Epsilon, others patched up the holes.
EDIT: My bad, apparently I can't count! :D That would be 3 in Epsilon.
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69th Dragoon Cluster, Beta Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
133rd Hussar Cluster, Beta Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
206th Hussar Cluster, Delta Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
193rd Dragoon Cluster, Epsilon Galaxy (Former Burrock Cluster)
212th Battle Cluster, Epsilon Galaxy (Mostly Burrock warriors)
471st Adder Guards, Epsilon Galaxy(Mostly Burrock warriors)
1009th Adder Sentinels, Kappa Galaxy (Created from a group of Burrock warriors)
1015th Adder Sentinels, Xi Galaxy (Former Burrock Beta Galaxy Cluster)
1143rd Garrison Cluster, Sigma Galaxy (Former 82nd Burrock Guards)
1114th Gatekeeper Cluster, Tau Galaxy (Created from a group of Burrock warriors)
but it had the side effect of diversifying the touman.
Like I said.
I stand by the existence of Upsilon Galaxy (formed from the Warriors of some of those Clusters above IIRC) as an indicator that the Adders don't particularly care for Burrock influence.
I'll also point out that the Adders themselves don't seem to be trying to alter their own 'pure' Adder Clusters to a lighter base. Even the new 'mechs they produced were two Heavies (one being the Burrock!) and an Assault. They are just being pragmatic about how they use their Burrock isorla, using them in the way in which the Burrocks are experienced in fighting.
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Honestly, I find the fluff for the Burrock laughable. I think the design is more of an insult seeing how Clan Burrock favors light and medium units. That's my take on it though.
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Or a nudge from the Star Adders to get those Burrocks to fight 'properly'? ;)
I actually like the Burrock a lot from a personal perspective, it looks cool and has the Clan ethos of 'hit hard, way too hot'.
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No doubt about that... it hits hard. It just in no way fits the Clan Burrock fighting style unless they fell back into their Operation: Klondike mindset again.
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But it can indeed burrow through enemy units, no?
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As if a true Clanner would steal anything! Remember where you are and you are talking to! [tickedoff] ;)
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I agree, that the Maddog is an excellent OmniMech, but I would like an heavy Omnimech, which is fast and well armoured. A 70t Mech with maiximum armor protection could field 29t pod capacity (FF armor, Endosteel chassis, 14 DHS and XL engine).
Borrow, Trial, or Capture then? :) Same difference in Clan terms.
Also, if TPTB dont put the kibosh on it, it looks like an upgraded Summoner is on its way from the Falcons Olivetti plant. The DA era Summoners we've seen dossiers for have been consistantly statted with Olivetti T4 Endo Steel and Compound Beta FF armor. This, to me, says Refit. Some of the various configs we've seen lack JJ's too, so it's possible those are now pod mounted. You can beg/borrow/steal/trial for that if it ever shows up.
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FF armor is... inefficient. Standard armor with 13.5 tons leaves you 1 point shy of max (or 14 tons will waste 7 points). And agreed, the fixed chassis shouldn't have jump jets, although some of the variants very well could.
Using FF you would waste 3 points, IMO, acceptable.
@Istal_Devalis
For DA I hope for something newer than just the IS-originated Summoner refit coming from the Homeworlds.
Nevertheless I like the new Summoner. Same with the Maddog II refit. Great a Mech.
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But it can indeed burrow through enemy units, no?
Yes. Yes it does. But Clan Burrock has used light and medium units since they changed their preference after Operation Klondike.
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I know dude, I was just pointing out the explanation for the Burrock.
But in order to hit that hard it had to be heavy. Also shows that the Snakes did not bother too much with their new brethren, I guess?
Could have taken a Nova H and christened it Burrock as well. :D Although its no faster then the above mech.
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Burrocks needs mechs with mining drills to allow them to move underground. :D
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IIRC the first RAT distributed after the story of Absorption fields also the Gargoyle C in the Star Adder frontlines. This is droped later for the Blood Asp. I clearly see Gargoyle C's in the old Burrock clan as heavy raider units.
Having no Gargoyle factory, but knowing the Burrocks used them ... it is a logical choice to build a mech like the Burrock.
It is more the way of a fighting style than the units used for. I think Burrock style is to move fast and use big guns along with good BA cover. Something totally different to our old ways. Opening our minds for the potential of this tactics and to ensure having the needed designs would be a good goal.
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They had the Executioner. Clan Ghost Bear might have put it out but the Burrocks and Jaguars designed it. Plus, they made the Clan Gauss Rifle.
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I prefer a Burrock Mech instead of a Clan "Hollander" Mech ;)
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Burrocks needs mechs with mining drills to allow them to move underground. :D
That would be awesome on so many levels.
Also, hey Adder fans, what are some of the more commonly used Mechs by the Adders?
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That would be awesome on so many levels.
Also, hey Adder fans, what are some of the more commonly used Mechs by the Adders?
This is a good start:
Clan Star Adder (History, possessions, warriors, etc) (http://ppc.warhawkenterprises.com/theclans/csa.html)
Clan Star Adder Touman (http://ppc.warhawkenterprises.com/theclans/csatouman.html)
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This is a good start:
Clan Star Adder (History, possessions, warriors, etc) (http://ppc.warhawkenterprises.com/theclans/csa.html)
Clan Star Adder Touman (http://ppc.warhawkenterprises.com/theclans/csatouman.html)
I keep forgetting that site exists. Thanks!
Star Adders aren't one of my top favorite Clans, but I do enjoy the fact that, from what I remember of the Crusader Clans book, they were sort of set up as, "Okay, they were the Clan that weren't bad, they weren't top players, and HOLY CRAP DID THEY JUST GET HUGE?"
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Which once again brings up the debate, "Does it count as stealing if you hit them over the head with your club first?"
This is the Clans. As long as you start the fight by telling them which club you're going to use and how many times you plan to hit them, go nuts. ;)
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This is the Clans. As long as you start the fight by telling them which club you're going to use and how many times you plan to hit them, go nuts. ;)
Clubs are overkill. I prefer PVC pipes.
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Clubs are overkill. I prefer PVC pipes.
Nerf sword. My final bid.
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I forget what they are called, but I bid one of the long paper tubes. You know, the ones you find on paper towels.
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Well bargained and done! :D
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MechWarrior Kargush reporting in.
So, what are my fellow warriors up to on this fine Sunday morning (or day/afternoon/evening depending on where you are)?
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Welcome !
I still searching for any information which ASF can be produced by our own. ???
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Welcome !
I still searching for any information which ASF can be produced by our own. ???
I would say at least Sulla (Priori) and Turk (Albion). Some more are mentioned as being produced in various sites, but no more details we have been told so far.
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according to TRO 3067 you guys also produce a couple Hydaspes every year.
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I forget what they are called, but I bid one of the long paper tubes. You know, the ones you find on paper towels.
That would be a "dut-dut". Named for the sound it makes when you bop someone over the head with it.
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That would be a "dut-dut". Named for the sound it makes when you bop someone over the head with it.
Thanx! :)
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@Istal_Devalis
For DA I hope for something newer than just the IS-originated Summoner refit coming from the Homeworlds.
Nevertheless I like the new Summoner. Same with the Maddog II refit. Great a Mech.
Eh. Newer doesnt always mean better. 70 ton, 5/8 chassis, with ES and FF is about as optimised as you can get in Battletech. :) Call it a Summoner II if you want a newer name to attach to it.
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Agreed.
So what about using Ferro-Lamellar armor?
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Agreed.
So what about using Ferro-Lamellar armor?
Do we manufacture the armor? I thought it was only used by the Snow Ravens.
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We do not have a canon prove that we can produce that armor so far.
However, given TacOps, production was started in 3070. Lum would be an obvious site for that, and given the rumor that we conquered that star system, that is a speculation with a high likelihood ;)
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Promise not to tell anyone, but I keep this in my back pocket
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/24/Csa_kappagalaxy_userbar.jpg)
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Promise not to tell anyone, but I keep this in my back pocket
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/images/2/24/Csa_kappagalaxy_userbar.jpg)
well that's just a silly thing to do.
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We do not have a canon prove that we can produce that armor so far.
However, given TacOps, production was started in 3070. Lum would be an obvious site for that, and given the rumor that we conquered that star system, that is a speculation with a high likelihood ;)
Of course, the odds are good that the part of the plant that produces the armor was boxed up and shipped to the Inner Sphere, or was scuttled altogether. [whipit]
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Of course, the odds are good that the part of the plant that produces the armor was boxed up and shipped to the Inner Sphere, or was scuttled altogether. [whipit]
Well, finally a proud Raven came, read and protested ;D
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That is my idea how that Omni could be like:
"Prototype Gamma"
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: Endo Steel 3,5
Engine: 350 XL 15
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 14 (28) 4
Gyro: 4
Cockpit: 3
Armor Factor (FL): 189 13,5
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 22 25
Center Torso (rear) 7
R/L Torso 15 22
R/L Torso (rear) 7
R/L Arm 11 20
R/L Leg 15 25
Weight and Space Allocation (OmniMechs only)
Spaces Spaces
Location Fixed Used Remaining
Head 1 EndoSteel 0
Center Torso 2 Ferro-Lam. 0
Right Torso 2 XL Engine 2 EndoSteel 6
2 Ferro-Lam.
Left Torso 2 XL Engine 2 EndoSteel 6
2 Ferro-Lam.
Right Arm Shoulder Actuator 1 EndoSteel 6
Upper Arm Actuator 3 Ferro-Lam.
Left Arm Shoulder Actuator 1 EndoSteel 6
Upper Arm Actuator 3 Ferro-Lam.
Right Leg - 2
Left Leg - 2
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That left 27t pod capacity and 28 free crits. With that you can do some fine configurations. :)
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I think and feel that it has too few space.. you are required to use Energy for the most part. I dont dislike Energy weapons, but it lacks flexibility for other stuff.
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You can make it work but its going to be a tight fit. its going to be harder to use some of the heavier weapons like the Ultra 20 AC.
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It is going to be quite a challenge. Are you afraid of? }:)
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Just an example:
RA/RT: UAC/20 - (RA: 6 crits, RT: 2 crits) - 12t
RT: Ammo (UAC/20) 15 - 3 crits - 3t
LT: 3xMedium Impr. Heavy Laser- 6 crits - 3t
RA: 2x ER Large Laser - 2 crits - 8t
RA: 1xDHS - 2 crits - 1t
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Otherwise you could go with Endo-Composite, though that might be a lil difficult to... aquire.
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We could activate smae channels as we did to aquire Packhunters ...
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Wha? When did this happen? I can't remember no Pack Hunter in our Touman. I thought those were pretty much exclusive to the WiE, though I don't doubt the Kells got their own share of the output.
And I don't think Upsilon went in for some salvage on Arc-Royal. That, I should definitely be aware of, if that had been the case :P
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See the Rat in FM: U, secondline. There is the Packhunter included.
Probably we got some via Shark Fox traders.
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Either that or it's just some RAT weirdness again. I tend to take RAT entries with a pinch of salt if they don't have supporting fluff.
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At least when the RATs limits Omnis to specific configurations. For example i doubt we use only the C config of the Savage Coyote. ;)
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Now I am officially part of you guys. (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,1592.msg32611.html#msg32611) Are you all happy? ;D
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Now I am officially part of you guys. (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,1592.msg32611.html#msg32611) Are you all happy? ;D
You still have to gain your York campaign button ...
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Question to the Adder fans,
Truscott was given the luxury of picking the warriors who would serve in his Clan. Any thoughts on what he was looking for when he canvassed the 800 to select his 40? What traits/skills/aptitudes/abilities and so forth he was seeking?
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well that's just a silly thing to do.
You should be pleased. Pretty much everything I choose to support in the BTU gets wrecked
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You should be pleased. Pretty much everything I choose to support in the BTU gets wrecked
well i guess judging by your FWL bar i should take your word for it ;)
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One question to the Adders here.
Time and again i wonder about a hint in the FM: Crusader Clans. I mean page 118 where it is stated that we have long time prefered Omnimechs such as Cauldron-Born, Timber Wolf and Kingfisher.
The first of them wasn't long time in production (around 10 years) to date of this FM. And i doubt we had good access to it before the annihilation of the Jaguars.
For the Timber Wolf we have several sources that indicates the Wolves hold them in their own lines. TRO3050U speaks of modest numbers in other clans than the Wolves.
Last but not least the Kingfisher is most likely just produced by the Ghost Bears in small numbers.
So what does this mean ? Was there any explanation why we prefer to use designs that we do not have in numbers ?
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I guess some of the sources are kinda vague. I mean, how many is 'a modest number' of Timbies? Does it mean hardly any or some kind of middling number between 'rare' and 'common'? I got no idea. But the higher end of that spectrum could gel with the Adders being notable users.
I *think* the Cloud Cobras produce the Cauldron Born, so the Adders should be OK for those.
The Kingfisher has been around a long time, I'd guess is something of a legacy design for the Adders. They probably traded and Trialed for it in the past. By now the Blood Asp is rolling off the production lines, of course.
In FM: Updates, the Adders only have about 5 Galaxies fieldling all omnis (4x 100% omni, and 2 that are about half and half) with the rest fielding hardly any, so I guess that angle is worth considering.
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Only counting 4 Galaxies with 5 clusters of only 3 mech trinaries we would count 900 omnimechs.
Knowing from the FM: Crusader Clans the Adders prefer heavy mechs. Let us say somewhat less than half of the mechs are heavy or assault. That would be around 400 omnis. From that we favor 3 designs.
To date of the FM the Cauldron-born was relatively new and not in high production outside the Jaguars. Even when we say "favor" isn't "most used" i would come to nearly 100 Timberwolves. That isn't really modest. ;)
I knew the TRO3050U is later written and so older sources are no longer valid. But this will raise the question which omnimech we field mostly. I have no answer yet. :(
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Even when we say "favor" isn't "most used" i would come to nearly 100 Timberwolves. That isn't really modest. ;)
As I said before, 'modest' can mean a lot of things and it definately doesn't have an absolute value. If someone says that 100 is modest, how are you going to prove that your interpretation is right that theirs is wrong? Another angle: what if the Wolves have 300 Timbie's and the Adders only 100? The amount the Adders have would be modest compared to the Wolves.
The only way you're gonna square the circle is to accept that 'modest' is a vague term and that what is modest to you may not mean the same thing to the writer of the Timber Wolf TRO entry. Your only alternative is to assume that one of the sources is wrong, and I'd say that's unnecessary because both sources use inexact terms so there is plenty of wiggle room anyway.
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Ok that explanation is very helpfull. I'm no english native speaker and so it sounds always like a handfull. ;)
When 100 Timberwolves are fine within this given source, i'm very happy. [cheers]
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Just want to raise your attention for the following paintjobs. ;)
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,1982.0.html
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Nice.
The Deimos is a beast :o
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Some new minis. IMHO very well done!
Tau Provisional Galaxy:
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=5619
Delta Galaxy:
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=5646
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Ooo wicked, really dig that Wyvern. Thanks for posting that!
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Ooo wicked, really dig that Wyvern. Thanks for posting that!
[stupid]
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http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,2421.0.html
Some new infos!
Ben Rome leaked some stuff from the WoR.
There seem to be an Adder-Viper alliance, the Adders almost annihilated the Mick-Kreese-Kline forces on Albion.
And some minor not-so-interesting info about minor Clans ;)
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Just to wake up some Adders on the board. There are some of our Coronas painted:
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,4442.msg99145.html#new
;)
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Very nice and good details O0
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We are alive, we are not lost.
We are taking a deep breath before unleashing hell on Homeworlds.
Are you others up to resist us?
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Only reason the Adder touman got big and powerful was because of Burrock cooperation.
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Hardly.
It might have been one reason, but for that we have had to fight that endless war against that dezgra Spirits with all the losses.
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The Adders, even before the Burrock Absorption, had the bonus of being a Home Clan larger than most of its rivals in the Homeworlds, with so many in the IS, in relative isolation, or preferring to remain less active in the interClan warfare.
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Actually, they didn't become as big as they are now until the Burrocks were absorbed. The Burrocks literally bulked up the Adder Warship fleet and repaired the bulk of their lost touman after the absorption. If the invaders didn't leave the Adders wouldn't be the largest. If the Burrocks didn't cooperate the Adder's would be on the low end of the Homeworld Clans in terms of size.
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Without the intervention of the Spirits the absorption had become more costly, i believe. They could have stood aside and wait, just to bring the beaten remaining Adders down after the absorption.
But on the other side we knew the Adders are planning carefully. They were no invading clan because they bid right. They understood how costly the invasion would become. They are prepared to do what's necessary. So to call them weak is a mistake. Maybe they could achive more with their assets if they try. But they are no fan of risky plans.
I'm interested in the story that comes. It seems clear that the Adders are on the leading edge - not necessary the winning - of whatever comes.
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When did I call them weak? If anything, I call them lucky.
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After the dust of the Absorption settled the Adders were only like a Galaxy and a half up from where they started. The Spirits had caused a lot of destruction even though they came off worst themselves. The Adders grew a bit since then, adding Upsilon to the rolls some time before 3067, but the grindfest on York is surely slowing down growth. Unfortunately after 3067 there's next to nothing about the Adders that tells us how their touman is faring.
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They went a galaxy and a half up PLUS had to rebuild the rest using Burrocks.
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The best of the Absorption were the new enclaves and resources belong to.
However, without the new feud I believe that we would have begun an invasion of the IS.
So I do not think that a cost-benefit-analysis is positive.
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However, without the new feud I believe that we would have begun an invasion of the IS.
Not without a vote of the Grand Council. As i understand the Adders from all the sources they are very honor bound in all aspects belonging to the Grand Council. Furthermore they believe ... they know that an invasion of the IS cannot be done by a single clan.
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In the Jihad Hotspots books there's a Grand Council meeting where the Clans talk about resuming the Invasion. They talk about electing an IlKhan so it can happen. The time limit on the Truce of Tukayyid had run out by then, and the Adders never believed themselves bound by the Great Refusal anyway.
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and the Adders never believed themselves bound by the Great Refusal anyway.
Is there any source for that ? I always read that the Wolves and Falcons feels not bound. :o
Beside that the Great Refusal was fight for Operation Revival, so that decision by the Grand Council is refused. This doesn't mean that the clans are not allowed to attack the IS, but they are forbidden to do so in the terms of Operation Revival - whatever that means.
There is no reason why the Grand Council shouldn't decide to start a new coordinated attack. Maybe not to conquer Terra, but for example just to kick one state (at first).
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The Adders have ever believed themselves bound by the Great Refusal. You can see that due the reasons they gave when they organized Upsilon Galaxy (just a reconnaissance mission, not a full-scale invasion).
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They don't consider themselves bound by the Great Refusal because they won their portion of the Trial, and because the Trial only repudiated the first invasion. The latter part is actually in Upsilon Galaxy's description in FMU.
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Wrong, they are bound to the overall defeat in the Great Refusal and the decision of the Grand Council despite they won their trial. Fact is the Great Refusal was for the coordinated invasion of the IS by a united clan effort.
There is no veto against any single action against the IS by the Grand Council. And by the way Upsilon also fight against clan units. It is more a way to look for the own strenght or position within the powerhouses. ;)
But it's definitely other than the Wolves that deny the Refusal at all.
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Wrong, they are bound to the overall defeat in the Great Refusal and the decision of the Grand Council despite they won their trial. Fact is the Great Refusal was for the coordinated invasion of the IS by a united clan effort.
There is no veto against any single action against the IS by the Grand Council. And by the way Upsilon also fight against clan units. It is more a way to look for the own strenght or position within the powerhouses. ;)
But it's definitely other than the Wolves that deny the Refusal at all.
this is not what Rael was discussing, he said they don't consider themselves bound, very different
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And as mentioned before there is no source that they do so. But there are many sources that the Adders have a high respect for the Grand Council. Thats what i meant. They are bound and they feel so.
Show me one source that it isn't that way. I just explained why the creation and mission of Upsilon isn't a break of the Great Refusal and therefore can't be counted as a source that they don't care.
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i just pointed out that you missed the point of what he was saying, simply so that conclusions aren't jumped to, and a silly argument on semantics isn't started is all.
it looks like Rael did give a source, though i'm nowhere near my books and so can't discuss this point right now, perhaps later.
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Rael says
They don't consider themselves bound by the Great Refusal because they won their portion of the Trial, and because the Trial only repudiated the first invasion.
As reference we receive
The latter part is actually in Upsilon Galaxy's description in FMU.
Here's what the FM:U says:
Dispatched in early 3066 on a reconnaissance and fact-finding mission to the Inner Sphere, they are to engage the best units the Inner Sphere and the Invading Clans have to offer and report back their findings.
Of course, this venture has caused an uproar in the Grand Council, though the Adders have countered all objections by arguing the Great Refusal repudiated the first Clan invasion; if a Clan wants to invade the Inner Sphere, by all means ...
There is nothing like the Adders consider themselves not bound to the Great Refusal. No question the first invasion is over and failed. Thats the point. Just because they started own actions - not coordinated with anyone else - you cannot imply that they don't care for the decisions of the Grand Council.
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you're completely missing what i was saying. i never put forth any reference or opinion on the matter, i simply said you weren't talking about the same thing as rael was. the fact that you're doing the same thing here proves the validity of my caveat. i simply wanted to make sure a silly argument over semantics wasn't started simply because you didn't understand what rael was discussing, correctness of the sources aside. if you read what i posted you would also have realized i mentioned i didn't have books with me, and could neither validate nor refute rael's source, so let's not jump to any conclusions, kay :)
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BAH! Just send all of the Burrocks over. They'll be nice, I swear!
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You better be nice when Burrocks smile at you. They have big, sharp teeth.
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Hi, been lurking for a while and finally signed up. Been out of the BT universe for about 12-13 years and have been using the forum and Sarna.net to catch up for about 3 months.
I got into BT in the early 90's and have been all Clan all the time. When my Jags went down I switched to the Adders (apparently I'm one of the few) then life drifted me away form the universe.
I was going to come back and build and Adder force but now I am hesitant because I am deeply afraid they will be Reaved.
I have decided to stay loyal for now and get back to playing with 2 stars; one front line and one second line. The front line star will be Alpha 5th Assault and be a true assault star. I want to stay in the assault range for the second line star, what second line mechs are prevalent in the Adder touman? I was thinking Highlander IIC, Marauder IIC 3, and Stone Rhino. What are a few other good options?
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Personally, I'd look at getting a heavy or two to round things out a bit and the Adders have some interesting choices available. They're the ones behind the Lupus-descended Hellfire, although I have to admit you're better off with the Hellfire 2. The Burrock isn't bad under the right conditions or if you're expecting to need a vicious short-range fighter but it's harmless outside range 12. One could also mark having a former Burrock in your ranks. Guillotine IICs are most abundant with the Adders and are quite, quite powerful. All of them are reasonably common. There's a few other choices if you're looking for something quirkier - a captured Matador and the Glass Spider 3 are interesting options. On the assault end, for pure sniping, we know they use some Supernovas. You could also employ a Blood Spirit 'Mech or two that were salvaged.
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For the heavy secondliner you can also consider the new Rifleman IIC. For assault class an Imp C is very impressive. ;)
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The Warhammer IIC and its variants I recommend you too.
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Blood Kite, or maybe an Assault omnimech for the Star Commander/Captain. Clan second-line formations usually have some omnis amongst the majority of standard mechs.
Glass Spider 3 is rockin', I think it's a big improvement over the original. The Burrock is a balls-out brawler, a stylish mech. The Imp C is plain evil.
Mentioning the Imp reminds me - you might consider Star League era mechs too, they quite often appear in second-line Clusters to bulk out the numbers. The Star League had some mean Gauss-armed Assaults like the Nightstar, Thunderhawk and Pillager.
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here is what I am looking at for the second line star
Highlander IIC; Marauder IIC 3; Guillotine IIC; Warhammer IIC; Glass Spider 3
Similar speed (the highlander is a little slow) similar weapons bracketing (lot's of PPC/pulse laser combos).
Alpha Galaxy Star is decided as well:
Blood Asp (cuz Adders have to); Night Gyr; Warhawk; Executioner; Night Gyr
Not picking specific configurations cuz, heck, they are omni's and the config will be situation dependent
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You may be interested in this unit:
http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7776.0.html
This is my Beta trinary for the growing cluster i'm painting. ;)
And yes, it is a little heavy - but it's also funny to see such a force together.
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Really good looking unit!
I like the mix of omni's with IIC and secondliners
Ultimately, I am going to build out an assault trinary but I am going to wait for the WoR before I invest too much at this point. The book appears to be coming out sooner than I thought so I am going to hold off on building more tha a star right now.
A new force is coming just a matter of whether it wears Star Adder reaving or Hell's Horses jihad colors.
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This is my Beta trinary for the growing cluster i'm painting. ;)
And yes, it is a little heavy - but it's also funny to see such a force together.
[applause]
You are prepared for the WoR, sir.
Give them hell!
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There is a long way ahead to complete my cluster. :-\
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Those are cool, and your paint jobs prove what I said the other day about Adder schemes - the colors may be simple but they look great if executed with style. I think the P-hawk IIC is my favorite one.
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He still had to add Nova Cat flair to make it stand out. It's the best interpretation of standard-ish Adder paint scheme I've seen.
And the Adder paint schemes are very bland in comparison to the other clans, but they fit the Adder way very nicely. All very uniform and simple. They look more like a standard military unit than a custom one off hot rod. All the same, all united for one cause... sounds like us.
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I've already done the Alpha trinary long time ago in a more traditional camo pattern:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x120/Wolf-Pack/Battletech/SA_TrinaryAlpha-1.jpg)
And at least in my eyes they also stand out without a Nova Cat flair. ;)
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Those look outstanding as well. More traditional Adder and really cool. Very well done.
It is hard to call that paint scheme dull or boring, that blue really stands out with the black and bronze.
These are awesome and all Adder
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Awesome painting, and I agree with Cold1; it is real hard to call those schemes boring. :)
-Damo
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And the Adder paint schemes are very bland in comparison to the other clans, but they fit the Adder way very nicely. All very uniform and simple. They look more like a standard military unit than a custom one off hot rod. All the same, all united for one cause... sounds like us.
Actually, Nova Cat field colors (appropriate camouflage) look more like a standard military unit. Adder colors are much more like proper military parade markings in my opinion - sensible and elegantly snazzy.
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What i have painted is clearly the parade color. The FM:CC states:
"When camouflaging is not required, Star Adder war machines are painted black and deep blue, highlighted by the colors and insignias of their Galaxies and Clusters."
Difference with the Nova Cats is that the Cats just have one Galaxy who knows parade colors and one Galaxy that thinks neon is a good camouflage. ;)
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What i have painted is clearly the parade color. The FM:CC states:
"When camouflaging is not required, Star Adder war machines are painted black and deep blue, highlighted by the colors and insignias of their Galaxies and Clusters."
That is especially interesting. Using a true deep-blue would look far more better than the (IMHO) brighter Blue many painter use. The base of the unit is so darker and the mostly brighter highlighting clolour can be used for more effect and contrast.
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I would love to put together a unit of painted mechs, but I'm a lousy painter.
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Thats exactly what i thought from me, when i started to paint my Alpha trinary. Just do it and you will become better with each single mech. ;)
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Difference with the Nova Cats is that the Cats just have one Galaxy who knows parade colors and one Galaxy that thinks neon is a good camouflage. ;)
You have no idea how much that irks me. I hate the fact the Nova Cats dont have parade color schemes. It doesnt give them a solid, repeatable paint scheme that ID's them as Nova Cats as opposed to 'generic Clan mech group A'
Sure, the nova cat is a subtle hunter, but it's also got one hell of a bright threat display...
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Yeah, the Neon Rainbow Galaxy's display is... special.
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What medium and light front line mechs do the Adders favor?
Is there a reference somewhere I can acquire?
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Their use of Adders is pretty obvious. Other than that, hmm. Time to check the books.
For lights... Like everyone else, they've probably got their share of Mist Lynxes and may have some Kit Foxes from trade, although the Adder so heavily overlaps with it in role that I can't imagine they'd be too interested.
Mediums? Of the classics, I'd imagine they have some Novas and Stormcrows and may have indulged in the Trials of Possession that went around for the Mongrel. We know they have Huntsmen. They've almost certainly got some Stooping Hawks and Crimson Langurs as salvage by now although I doubt they're especially fond of them.
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Traditionally few units were equipped with fast light and medium mechs. At least that is said in the FM: CC. It have changed since the Absorption, so that you can find some Mist Lynx and Viper.
The Kit Fox as the primary light mech of the Cloud Cobras is also a good choice, but it is similar in performance to our Adder.
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They also have whatever the Burrocks had. The Burrocks favored medium and light mechs, and were working closely with the Cobras. So, whatever was common to the Cobras may have been found in numbers in the Burrock units.
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Yet another question.
I've seen mention here that the Adders sent a galaxy into the periphery, Upsilon maybe. Can anyone elaborate or point me to the source book?
Or at least explain why?
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Upsilon was decimated on Dagda and disbanded.
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Alright, so did I totally miss the boat? i could swear the Adders sent a galaxy into the periphery on some sort of fact finding thing.
Am I totally crazy?
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Alright, so did I totally miss the boat? i could swear the Adders sent a galaxy into the periphery on some sort of fact finding thing.
Am I totally crazy?
Citing TRO: 3075, Corona Battle Armor, an unidentified group of Adders attacked the Horses while the Horses attacked Thule, resulting in a threeway battle.
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Field Manual: Updates says that Upsilon Galaxy was reformed, and in 3066 sent to test the combat capabilities of the IS Clans and Inner Sphere powers.
Few battles are absolutely confirmed, but they're mentioned in some of the Jihad Hotspots books. The Draconis Combine was aware of their presence but we don't know if they fought. Reported on 3rd December 3067, one entry places an Upsilon Cluster in the Bazaar system (a Diamond Shark Periphery waystation) where they fought three minor Trials of Possession (one to recharge Jumpships, one for food supplies, and one for a Star of Mad Cat Mk IIs; the Adders won the latter two). Some of their mechs were showing earlier damage, and they had a Kit Fox still painted in Ice Hellion colors and insignia (probably isorla). Shortly after this they hit Wolf 82, another Periphery waystation, this one owned by the Wolves. They seem to have still been in the coreward Periphery until around the start of 3070 because the Wolves apparently encountered the bulk of them there.
One of the writers, Paul IIRC, said the attack on Thule wasn't Upsilon Galaxy.
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Do all those Clan waystations count as part of the Periphery, or are they something else entirely?
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Some are not far coreward of the Clan OZs, some are right up in the Deep Periphery.
Field Manual Periphery has a map of the Deep Periphery on p134 that shows where they are and who owned them (as of about 3062).
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I have the map, but I'm curious to know if they are considered part of the Periphery or part of the Clan space.
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Deep Periphery. They're not mutually exclusive terms, mind. The Homeworlds are considered to be in the Deep Periphery too.
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Okay, that works for me.
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So...
We know where they are now. Do we know why they are there?
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Nothing heard about them since around early 3070.
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They are the only known major combat unit out there from a homeworld clan. I assume they will play a part in the whole blockade thing of the homeworlds.
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Straighten me out on this, was the blockade between the IS Clans and the Homeworlds imposed by the Home Clans or the IS clans? It would have to involve a lot of warships either way.
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Straighten me out on this, was the blockade between the IS Clans and the Homeworlds imposed by the Home Clans or the IS clans? It would have to involve a lot of warships either way.
I don't think it's been said either way, just that there's no contact between the IS and the homeworlds
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What I find intriguing is no jumpships from the Homeworlds were able to flee towards the IS. if your Clan is going under, those who can get out would want to go somewhere.
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The dark caste sounds more likely than traveling to the corrupt spheroids ... ;)
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I think there have been several statements made that the IS clans are blockading the homeworlds in a major way. But I can not conform a concrete source.
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If the IS Clans were doing the blockading, wouldn't they have more information as to what is going on?
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What I find intriguing is no jumpships from the Homeworlds were able to flee towards the IS
Well that's if you discount the spooky Spirit-Scorpion-Blake badge from that Dark Age novel.
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I stand by my assertion that if the IS clans are blockading the homeworlds something there is seriously wrong. The IS clans would go back and attack if they thought it was viable but it sounds like they are pretty afraid of what is left in the homeworlds. Imagine a coaltion of the 6 IS clans, that would be an insane task force. They aren't going back becasue they are afraid of what remains.
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I had the impression the Ravens are fleeing the homeworlds, as also the Horses and Hellions.
Remember especially the Wolves relys on their homeworld factories. Cutting the supply lines would be a serious problem for them - as we see it in MWDA time. It looks like all IS Clans lost by the blockade.
So i think this is organized by the remaining homeworlders.
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I have limited resources but could swear the IS clans put up the blockade. Maybe whatever happens chased away the Horse and Ravens and the Wolves aren't willing to go back after their assets no matter how vital.
Like I said if this is the case, then it is BAD.
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It was stated here in the board several times, but always without any source or official confirmation iirc. I assume we will receive the confirmation with WoR.
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I do not think that any in the CBT universe has the resources avialable to execute a proper interstellar bockade of the Clan Homeworlds.
IMHO even the whole naval forces of the SLDF and federate fleets during the Star League`s heyday would not have been sufficient for that.
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I do not think that any in the CBT universe has the resources avialable to execute a proper interstellar bockade of the Clan Homeworlds.
IMHO even the whole naval forces of the SLDF and federate fleets during the Star League`s heyday would not have been sufficient for that.
What are you doing that a half-dozen McKennas backed up by ten Sovetskii Soyuzes and whatever other units you want to assign (at least another half-dozen hulls plus DropShips and fighters) can't interdict acceptably?
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How are they blockading the homeworlds? Couldn't a ship jump away from Terra and go around the blockade and come through Cappellan space or Drac space. Are they surrounding the homeworlds?
Really you just need to guard jump points, but there are still a lot of those. I don't understand. In lookign back through old posts, no one ever sites this blockade.
Does anyone know where this comes from?
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Really you just need to guard jump points, but there are still a lot of those.
Actually, that's not what you want to do because of how many there are. Everything outside the proximity limit is a jump point. There's a reasonable number of pirate points inside, too. Attach your defenses to targets, not dispersed trying to cover every possible jump point, and try to keep them concentrated as much as possible. WarShips may want to be on a reasonably state pirate point near the most important target to be able to jump in response to attacks but that's less important and works better if mobile HPGs are available to dramatically reduce the response time.
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A true blockade by either group of Clans would involve inter-Clan cooperation on a scale that is very unusual for them. It would also involve virtually every warship availiable.
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A true blockade by either group of Clans would involve inter-Clan cooperation on a scale that is very unusual for them. It would also involve virtually every warship availiable.
I agree, which means either:
A.) the IS clans are so afraid of the homeworlds they are cooperating on a major level
B.) the Reaving was so destructive that the remaining clans are cooperating on a major level
Either way, it's a huge change.
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If the IS Clans are doing the blockading, then they must have some idea what is happening and why. If the Home Clans are doing it, then they aren't using their warships in the attacks.
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I was under the impression that the blockade was a Dark Age thing... I assumed it was after the WoR was over and the Horses and Ravens had fled the homeworlds.
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My bet is it's more of a mutual thing
We dont talk to them. They dont talk to us. And that's just the way both sides like it.
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My bet is it's more of a mutual thing
We dont talk to them. They dont talk to us. And that's just the way both sides like it.
You're just holding a grudge over that whole "trying to kill you for your visions" thing.
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Psht. Dont look this direction. I look at the entire WoR thing (ICly) as the other Clans getting their just deserts :D
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Yeah, except for 125 years in the BT future when the HPG grid suddenly springs to live and all the IS receives is pictures of the new clan invasion fleet dropping on key worlds speher wide. I promise the Fie Coyotes, Blood Adders, and Goliath Vipers are going to come for you eventually.
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Or maybe the other direction.
The IS Clans are going to invade the Homeworlds.
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Not likely as we see there actions and situations in MWDA.
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I still think whatever happens in the reaving has scared the IS clans away. Which, since they are the clans, would have to be something more than just big shiny new mechs with genecaste pilots on performance enhancing drugs.
I feel like the blockade has less to do with stopping an invasion and more to do with quarantine of the homeworlds.
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Where have you gotten that idea of a blockade?
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Where have you gotten that idea of a blockade?
I have no idea. My (very conservative) estimate of the ability to do it with the entire SLN and House Navies at their height is one thing. I get the feeling that the sort of absolute break we're seeing represents something on the Homeworld end and probably something more than just a blockade.
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Maybe the IS clans just KNOW they die if they come back ? And they know they will DEFINITELY DIE if they talk to anyone else ? 8)
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Where have you gotten that idea of a blockade?
Quoted here repeatedly, apparently from DA novels. I admittedly have not read any of them. I am not trying to spread bad information, just repeating what was cited in other posts.
I am going to try and hunt up the citations later when I am not at work.
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The general blockade or whatever is more part of the WoR speculation in the other topic. We should not spread the same discussion/speculations over several topics. ;)
As far as i remember it was only officially stated that the IS clans lost contact. No answer why or when.
And more important we know nothing about the involvement of the Star Adders. Last sources are some fightings in the periphery with our Upsilon Galaxy. Personally i hope that Upsilon will play a major part in the next events that are coming.
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I'm just hoping that all this IlKhan/Mandrill's folly thing isn't actually the Adders folly since N'Buta was nominated and had support from a couple other clans including the Yotes. The Mandrill stuff may have just been to mislead us, and I have issues with a Mandrill IlKhan from a fan believability standpoint.
I can see the Adders as a large clan messing up big time and getting hit hard by a coalition of smaller clans (i.e. the origins game where the Spiritis, Mandrills, and Ravens were all attacking the Adders together) and then the Yotes reacting to smaller clan coalitions with whatever it is they are working on (sneaky scientists).
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Looks like we'll find out soon
The War of Reaving book is now Cooming Soon on classicbattletech.com
http://www.classicbattletech.com/index.php?action=products&mode=full&id=363 (http://www.classicbattletech.com/index.php?action=products&mode=full&id=363)
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IIRC there is not any mentioning of a blockade of the Homeworlds in DA novels.
Only that there has not contact between IS and Homeclans for decades.
Why we will see soon I think.
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The blockade does seem to be a fanon specualtion.
Again, my bad for perpetuating the idea here.
Now jonesing for the Reaving book, love the early 80's slasher movie writing on the cover.
I have the sudden urge to write all the Mandrill and Spirit bloodnames on the note pad on my desk and start violently crossing them off with red sharpie }:)
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I have issues with a Mandrill IlKhan from a fan believability standpoint.
I think it works. Garrett Sainze seems like he'd be an ineffectual figure compared to Stanislov N'Buta. The Mandrills are a much weaker, more divided Clan than the Star Adders. Seems to me that any Crusader Clan who doesn't want a strong, centralizing IlKhan poking into their business would prefer to vote for Sainze than for a powerful and thorough Star Adder. Wardens who aren't keen on seeing Crusader success might vote for him too.
I don't think the Mandrill's Folly tidbit was meant to mislead, I think it refers to something legit. Whether it relates to the IlKhanship or not is another question. Right now it's just speculation.
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Perhaps instead of a blockade, the Home Clans wiped out all the garrisons on the waystations set up to support the return road. That might effectively cut off communications between the IS and the Homeworlds. Maybe that's what Upsilon was doing.
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Perhaps instead of a blockade, the Home Clans wiped out all the garrisons on the waystations set up to support the return road. That might effectively cut off communications between the IS and the Homeworlds. Maybe that's what Upsilon was doing.
All of the reports about Upsilon do seem to come from IS sources from making contact with them in the area of the way stations. So this is viable.
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Maybe part of Upsilon's job was to make the IS Clans aware that they were no longer welcome in the Homeworlds. Wiping out their waystations would certainly get their attention.
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Taking over the waystations alone wouldn't stop the IS clans to come back. They already have units in the homeworlds. And they don't need the waystations for the travel. Remember taskforce Serpent doesn't use them, too.
Beside that i also believe that the deep periphery is lost for the IS clans in MWDA time.
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It might not stop them from coming back, but it would certainly give them an idea of what kind of reception to expect.
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Might also be to eliminate early warning for an invasion. If the Homeworld clans expel the IS clans there's nothing to say the homeworlders might plan a second invasion. Clearly things go awry before it is succesful.
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Guess we'll find out about Upsilon, Ben's Q & A today had a big "OH YES" to that question.
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Question Adder fans...
As we get more and more previews of the WoR book I see a glaring lack of mention of the Adders. Other than the picture of Stanislov N'buta there is nothing.
I feel like they may die early, anyone else wonder about the lack of Adder mention in the teasers? I mean even the Scorpions and Cobras have seen more play.
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As far as i seen the Adders are not loved in the US. So it is likely they die. At least their enemies are louder here. ;)
Furthermore it would be too foreseeable when the long-time planning of the Adders would be successfull. And we have never seen an expected end in the BT timeline. One more reason they fail.
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Yeah my thoughts exactly, everyone loves the Spirits. The Adders are the well rounded, pragmatic, large, white-hattish clan... too bad the Wolves covered that one already.
The whole Tseng sickness thing mentioning the Adders dealt with it too makes me wonder if the Spirits turned it loose since they seem to be fighting the Bears as well. If the Spirits kill the Adders dirty then mess with the Bears I hope the Bears maul them beyond recognition.
I am looking for an IS clans to play and it would be a step in the right direction for the Bears if they smack the Spirits around.
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I really, really doubt this is a popularity contest and saying it is without some sort of statement to that effect on the part of the developers is basically throwing mud. Especially alleging it's just one among the US fans.
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This may not a popularity contest - but it's a product that must be sold. Killing everybodies darling isn't a good seller, isn't it ? Ok, it matters how it is killed. ;)
I believe the WoR will not bring much that was expected and discussed here in the last few years. That would be too easy just to write down the clan-archive of the board from the last years. So it must be different - but interesting enough for all players to buy it.
And it's hard to find any faction in the BTU that was really destroyed. We have seen so many nations near the collapse, just to raise again. Even the Wolverines or the Jaguars seems not to be dead. So i think there will be something in the WoR that will make us Adders happy - and something that not.
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Yeah, we live on as Burrocks... no thanks
I also am not convinced there won't be Wolverines in the WoR.
Although I do believe TPtB have proclaimed the Jags officially gone for good.
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Yeah, we live on as Burrocks... no thanks
It's better to be an Adder?
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It's better to be an Adder?
i'm sure it is if you're an adder fan
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It's better to be an Adder?
Yup, lots of big stompy assaults and a general positive vibe clan
I was not making a jab at the Burrocks, just find it sad if that is the only remnant at the end.
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It's better to be an Adder?
Apparently, yes
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Definately better to be an Adder now. They're large and in charge.
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...but most definitely not the "white hats" nor as Burrocks.
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<<Bows>> Thank you for killing the Vipers for us. We Ravens will still hate you for the shennanigans you pulled on us, but still, no more Vipers. <<Bow>>
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...but most definitely not the "white hats" nor as Burrocks.
"White hat" compared to... the Yotes(society)? the Vipers? Probably
I was disappointed with how we dealt with York but we were just trying to be trendy. I was impressed how N'buta played the Vipers like a fiddle.
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Yeah, enabling and assisting multiple fratricidal rampages that nearly shattered Clan society while using them as a way to grab power is somewhat better than actually being the zealot behind them. Somewhat cleaner than the Society or the Vipers, yes. White hats? Not a chance in hell.
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Ain't no white hats in the Clans. they're all bad guys. Mutual destruction couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.
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Sounds like we have learned the political game very well from the Ravens and finally beating the known master of political perfidiousness. I don't know if i like it. :-\
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We got politics down, the difference is we have a big stomping army to go with the political prowess.
Hmm, we kind of are clan Davion.
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There is nothing terrible about that, but at the moment, you rule an empire of ash.
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Hmm, we kind of are clan Davion.
Sure, if at the end of Twilight of the Clans the Federated Suns had turned around and utterly destroyed the Draconis Combine, Clan Star Adder would be just like House Davion.
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I was joking...
But seriously I don't think I'm going to sway your opinion on the Adders. I never understood all the Adder hate before the WoR book. But if you dislike them now at least there is good reason for it.
My original white hat comments weren't meant to protray the Adders as some superhero goody goody, but rather that their level headedness and large touman put them in position to bring balance to less stable clans in a devolving situation.
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Well, for me, the hate came from percieving them as greedy bullies and me being a small clan, a viewpoint I was led to with my time in the FGC and the knowledge that they had already absorbed 2 Clans. I still respected them for their accomplishments, but I didn't like them. To me this viewpoint was verified when I saw the snippet they were pushing my clan around in the Jihad book with no more information than that.
Now we find out they absorbed close to 4 Clans? And reaved how many more? I still respect the power of someone who can do that, but like all stories I like to play them out and get my own endings. ;) One thing I love about the B-Tech community and how I heard about this site in the first place was that we can have an effect on the game by playing the scenarios at Gencon and Origins, etc.
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I never said I hated them. I am bemused by how they are perceived by some of their fans and detractors.
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I always had the impression that the Star Adders are one of the few clans that are believable heirs to the SLDF. I mean we had an army gone that could plan and perform campaigns of epic size. An army able attacking all enemies around and in the same time able to build a defense never seen before.
An army that realized that it is not only the warrior, but also the technicians, engineers, medical staff, logistician and much more that is needed for such an organisation. I never had the impression that the Founder had problems with the support staff, but more with politician and ambitious egoists. The clans he created were effective. Something we haven't seen in most of the clans of our time.
It was the Adders preference for heavy mechs in the first place combined with the realized need of support troops and a good logistic that impressed me. It was their correct evaluation of the needs for Operation Revival. Their long time planning in contrast to the short term but hot headed behaviour of most other clans.
I haven't read WoR yet, but i hope all the reclamations of beeing Clan Davion comes from this kind of ideology. If it is that carefull planning that bear fruit, then i'm happy with it (most likely - there are other criterias as well ;) ).
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The Adders are as badass as any Clan. Well, save one of the dead ones, maybe. They're certainly as brutal as (or more than) any of the current IS Clans - which includes the berserker Ghost Bears and Galedon-razing Snow Ravens. They're smart with it too. Some might even say 'ruthlessly cunning'.
If Hanse had been a sociopath and flauted the Ares Conventions when pissed off, then the Adders might work as a Clan Davion. :D
I never said I hated them. I am bemused by how they are perceived by some of their fans and detractors.
Same. I think sometimes some fans/haters concentrate on the quirks and forget about Clan General.
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Ruthlessly cunning about sums it up.
I'm sorry but the reasons people don't like the Adders don't make much sense. The clan Davion thing is boring, the similarities are too few and far between.
The Adders have a true military, not just a band of knight errant warriors. They don't specialize in one area of war, they specialize in all areas of war working together. They are not clan bland, they are clan smart and balanced. This IS what makes them stand out in the clans.
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So ya couldn't kill us the first time... ;)
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So ya couldn't kill us the first time... ;)
We only tried to KILL you once and it went swimmingly. The other time we just wanted to beat you up and take all your stuff.
But admittedly Burrocks are sneaky little devils.
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Adders help me out.
When I left BT in the late 90's I played an Adder assault trinary in the 5th Assault with a main character Star Captain.
I was just getting ready to put together a new trinary along the same lines when I stumbled on the WoR thread and decided to wait. I thought, I need an IS clan too. The WoR sort of changed things since my Adder unit is now a IS unit and will get a hellacious assault star ;)
I am going to build a new Adder assault trinary for the 4th Assault but wanted to get some input on what a force is going to look like post reaving? How heavy should I go? How many 2nd line units vs omnis?
Any input greatly appreciated.
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Well there was a lot of fighting between all the Homeworld Clans so I'd say you have a freer hand with mech choice than before. Any Homeworld designs you like are justifiable as isorla. Toss in a Blood Asp or two for Star Adder flavour, Cauldron Borns and Timber Wolves are popular too.
Weight class would be mostly Heavies and Assaults for an Assault Cluster. I'd expect them to have a Strike Star/Nova or two in there somewhere too so if you wanted your Trinary to have a Star of Mediums and even Lights, you could justify that.
Omnimechs vs standard is hard to gauge. There's little information on surviving factories. A Beta Galaxy unit is going to be high up the supply chain pecking order though, so I'd focus on omnimechs with maybe a few standard mechs (check out the Rifleman IIC 6, that's apparently an Adder design. I've fought against them and they're mean while the ammo lasts.)
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Heck, anything built in the Homeworlds is plausible if they got some of the output.
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Since they're the fattest snake in the Homeworlds now, they can pretty much trade or Trial for any mechs they like the look of. They probably don't want to cripple their little buddy Clans so I'd see them obtaining a Star here, a Trinary there, that kind of thing.
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I actually see more Adder giving than taking.
They benefit by fighting trials to blood new warriors and the clans benefit by gaining resources.
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I actually see more Adder giving than taking.
Maybe true, but other Clans probably build mechs the Adders don't. For example there's a Huntsman factory line on Brim and a Hellion factory on Hector (assuming they weren't destroyed in the War), both worlds held completely by the Cloud Cobras.
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"Rule, Star Adders! rule the Homeworld's:
"Clanners never will be slaves." [rockon]
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Hail Star Adder!
Way to go Stanislov for the long game
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And what do my fellow Adders how shall be the future of the Homeworlds and of the Quadriga Clans ?
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We are the shepherds of the way of Kerensky. We will help our fellow clans rebuild to the glory of our former selves.
We will build bigger and better war machines, we will breed and train better warriors, and when the time is right and we are ready we shall right the wrongs of those before us both the abjured and the usurpers.
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These are just phrases, what exactly shall we do?
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These are just phrases, what exactly shall we do?
What do they do? They are Star Adders. There are many Clans in the world, but they are not Star Adder. You? No you are not Star Adder. Neither is Scott Baio; he is not Star Adder. But they...they are Star Adders.
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These are just phrases, what exactly shall we do?
Those are generalizations, but they pretty much describe what we are planning to do.
We are pragmatic, patient, and smart. I see the Adders creating a 2 fold system for combat. One,The way of the Clans is reserved for trialing among each other and sticking to strict zellbringen. Two, IS and any non-clan opponents are not subject to zell or the way and are open to strategic warfare, espionage, black ops, etc.
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I put a self imposed 2 week ban on inciting riots on this forum by celebrating.
It has been 2 weeks. I know this board is short on Adder fans and heavy on Adder haters.
But I got to say:
WE WIN!!!
How freaking awesome are the Adders? Clan Davion... sure becasue we just monkey stomped everybody. Fight like a clan... or we will destroy your entire planet from orbit.
FEAR US!!!
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Clever. Destroy everything that the Clans were supposed to be, then dance in the ruins. Typical Adder.
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IMHO the Clans shall revive the warrior caste, the civilian castes, re-terraforming the lost planets and settling new planets. Form their own star empire.
Clever. Destroy everything that the Clans were supposed to be, then dance in the ruins. Typical Adder.
No, the Adders and the other three Homeclans are the last of the true Clans and capable of reviving the Clans as Kerensky wanted them to be.
The other Clans are tainted, have long before lost what it means to be Clan.
Both Malvina Hazen`s and Alaric Wolf`s existence in DA prove that.
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The other Clans are tainted, have long before lost what it means to be Clan.
Both Malvina Hazen`s and Alaric Wolf`s existence in DA prove that.
Good point. Looking at Malvina's atrocities commited, I can't find anything Clan about it. Alaric Wolf is tainted for obvious reasons regarding his DNA. So he's isn't really Clan as well.
Sometimes it is necessary to purify oneself, and the Vipers and Adders did just that, though the Adders also proved their own sharpness, when they capitalized on the whole purification process.
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Clever. Destroy everything that the Clans were supposed to be, then dance in the ruins. Typical Adder.
I would argue that the Adder's Means resulted in an Ends that measured up to exactly what their vision of Kerensky's path is; all the home worlds united under one cause.
They caused more destruction in the fight against the Society/Dark/Burrock than they did in the reaving. I could care less how many Tanite worlds or hidden Spirit worlds they smashed as they were all way beyond the guidelines of the way of Kerensky. I was less impressed by what they did to York, in all honesty I was actually a little disappointed.
But since they are unclanlike... I guess they should have done a bunch of underhanded black market trading, syphoned resources to the dark caste, then reformed after being rightfully absorbed and joined an onslaught hellbent on destroying Clan society as we know it. Would that have been better?
Orbital bombardment is about as Unclan as it gets when dealing with another clan but Burrocks calling others Unclan is REALLY a stretch
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York was genocide and makes Clan Smoke Jaguar look like Strawberry Shortcake (however not the Penny Arcade parody ;)), IMHO.
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I agree, York was... unfortunate. But it was nice to see the mean side of the Adders for once.
I may be biased as my first BT faction was the Jaguars and I was fanatical.
I've done enough lamenting about the the loss of other people's stuff and other clans. I like the Spirits but I am not going to tip toe around the forum or the fan boys any more.
There was an all out war and my clan won, and I am happy about it.
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One of the ideals behind creating the Clan way of war was to avoid doing exactly what the Clans did during the WoR. Destroy everything and everyone on some planets. Forget the rules, just kill and destroy. The minute they started doing that, the Clans way of life died.
Now they must rebuild from the ruins of what used to be their way of life.
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Yes, all the clans broke the rules.
The Adders are leading the rebuilding effort, they are forcing the old way.
They also stopped the madness.
They did more to save clan society than to kill it.
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Peace through higher firepower...it's inarguably the clan way, and if you argue, we'll string you up on a trophy pole, burn your planet, and take all your stuff, you won't even exist as a memory, because everyone that knew you will be dead also...it's the clan way. [rockon]
Whether or not people think the Adders were operating in a clan system before, it's the clan system now...or else!
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Peace through higher firepower...it's inarguably the clan way, and if you argue, we'll string you up on a trophy pole, burn your planet, and take all your stuff, you won't even exist as a memory, because everyone that knew you will be dead also...it's the clan way. [rockon]
Whether or not people think the Adders were operating in a clan system before, it's the clan system now...or else!
Let me reiterate... WE WIN!!!
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I disagree.
If the Adders had won, the WoR as it was done would be the Adders` plan.
The Adders survived and defeated any enemy, but suffered greatly.
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Well looking around, I would say since we went in the biggest and baddest and came out the biggest and baddest there is some measure of victory there.
It looks to me like N'buta was pulling alot of strings and I would wager most of what went down was his plan.
We aren't dead, abjured, or banished to the IS and we rule the home worlds. Compared to other fates I'll take it as a victory.
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Adders do not rule the Homeworlds, we lead the other true Clans.
Fine difference :)
The mentioned internal battles between the old and new breed in the Adder Clan makes me wonder if there is Reaving underway versus those who did these brutalities in the WoR. Getting rid of them to begin a true new era.
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I can't see reaving warriors who don't conform as resources are limited but I can see makin them conform with punishment.
I also notcied most the Adder worlds that are abandoned were due to Society gene-bugs and it would appear the Adders are finding cures to the strains directed at their bloodhouses. Some of these worlds may be serviceable again.
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I agree to Gäiten - we just survived in the best position of all the remaining clans.
Only time will tell, how costly the war really was and how we can prosper again.
There are many opportunities, but for both ways. First we must consolidate and stabilize ourself, at the same time trying to do the same with the other clans (if they fail on themselves).
Not till the last danger for our damaged society is solved we can see forward and make new plans to free the IS and rebuild the SL.
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I seem to be the only one that interprets the end of the WoR book positively, at least for the future.
It seems to make an effort to show the homeworlds well on their way to rebuilding.
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Whenever "peace" rears its head in this setting, if you listen very carefully, you can hear the squeaking as the hamsters run in their wheels to winch another anvil into position.
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Whenever "peace" rears its head in this setting, if you listen very carefully, you can hear the squeaking as the hamsters BRAIN SLUGS run in their wheels to winch another anvil into position.
I come and glance at this thread and immediately see an opportunity. I clearly have serious mental problems. Or brain slugs.
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I seem to be the only one that interprets the end of the WoR book positively, at least for the future.
It seems to make an effort to show the homeworlds well on their way to rebuilding.
I see the end of the WoR positively, either, but it is just too early saying they do have a bright future before them.
Far too much was destroyed and too many people were killed.
However, in that destruction are also many opportunities in. Rebuilding keeps people busy and the tough challenges before them increase the demand for new and innovative technologies.
Given the the ongoing in-universe principle of "Built a society to a high level and then let war destroy them" the Homeworlds and Periphery Clans are up to play an important role in the coming future.
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Adders do not rule the Homeworlds, we lead the other true Clans.
Fine difference :)
Just like the USSR 'guided' the other Warsaw Pact nations, right? :D
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There are similarities, what are yuo trying to say?
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Just like the USSR 'guided' the other Warsaw Pact nations, right? :D
:)
Better, as the USA guided the NATO ...
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The Adder region of the Gencon diorama:
http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=5951
Fantastic work, imho.
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yeah those a re really nice, the blood asp re-re-sculpt is just such an awesome mini, and i really can't wait for those variant parts to hit the IWM site
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Help me with my new Adder unit!!!
I was waiting for WoR to build units and have the unique situation of my clan surviving but needing a new character and unit as my previous one was the 5th Assault who are now more hoof than scale. (They will be getting an assault nova with mechs and protos soon)
I am going with a star commander in the 4th Assault and plan to build a star around him. I like 4/6 movement with lots of weight to throw around. I need some help fleshing out the star though. My previous character pilots a Blood Asp so I am going to change it up. So for the star commander: Warhawk or Night Gyr?
For the rest of the unit:
point 2: whatever choice the star commander does not take
point 3: Executioner
point 4: Kingfisher
point 5: Cauldron Born
Opinions? Am I too heavy? I know the BV is through the roof but a true clan assault star would have a sick BV
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After the WoR i wouldn't expect any unit can field only omnis beside the very elite.
Before the WoR i see no love for the Night Gyr in a Star Adder formation, but beside that it sounds reasonable.
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The Nightgyr is mentioned in the RAT of FM: U as Adder unit. Khan Stanislov N`Buta piloted such a design.
IMHO, a side effect of the WoR is that all the designs were spread among the remaining HomeClans, I doubt that there are many exclusive designs left (let it be Mechs, aerospace fighters, Protomechs, vees).
Why shall be there no 100% Omnimech units left? ???
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It quits using the RATs as anything other than a way to quickly make random forces or it gets the hose again.
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The Nightgyr is mentioned in the RAT of FM: U as Adder unit.
Thats why i said "i see no love for the Night Gyr". Thats absolutely personal taste - but we were asked for our opinions. ;)
Why shall be there no 100% Omnimech units left? ???
I think there was much damage around and as we have seen it in the past the frontline units were always the first and in the middle of any combat. So they should see the worst destructions as well.
Even before the WoR we know frontline units not at 100% omnitech. I assume a worse situation now. The best equipment is always requestede by the best units. Therefore 100% omnitech will likely be just found in the elite formations.
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Before the WoR the Adders frontline galaxies were almost exclusively omni. FM:C list all the front line galaxies as having all omni's.
There was a lot of destruction in the homeworlds but the Adders have an abundance of facilities that would have been mostly left alone. I think they will be just fine to field a few all omni galaxies.
The 4th is an Elite unit and the heaviest unit left in the touman, I would fully expect them to be all omni.
I've decided to change it up some anyway.
Point 1: Warhawk
Point 2: Blood Asp
Point 3: King Fisher
Point 4: Night Gyr
Point 5: Cauldron Born
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Before the WoR the Adders frontline galaxies were almost exclusively omni.
Far from it. FM:U ( iirc the last official source before WoR) lists just Alpha and Gamma at 100% omni.
Beta, Delta and Epsilon field significant numbers of standard mechs. In case of Beta even a few SL era designs.
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Just remember, Adders are snakes. You know what they say about snakes......
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A symbol for immortality :)
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A symbol for immortality :)
[applause] [applause] [applause] Nicely done.
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When I was a kid, snakes were something to run over with a lawnmower. The Burrocks are designing a really BIG lawnmower in secret......
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When I was a kid, snakes were something to run over with a lawnmower. The Burrocks are designing a really BIG lawnmower in secret......
I'm surprised the complete destruction of the remaining Burrocks hasn't put an end to this nonsense.
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You must have missed a few.
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You must have missed a few.
Probably, but a few missed Burrocks will take forever to rebuild and any reappearance with in the listening distance of the Adder Watch is going to end you.
I have not seen FM:U so I am going on old info. I am going to go ahead and assume that post WoR Beta is the premier galaxy (first in the touman) and the 4th is the heaviest elite unit. It makes sense. I eventually plan to expand this into a nova so there will be some IIC's in the other stars (the Adder make some good ones)
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Based on previous FM, the Alpha Galaxy is not always the best one. Often it's the one that takes heavy casualties and has to be rebuilt, so the quality will be down for awhile.
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Based on the touman post WoR there is no more Alpha for the Adders.
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???
Alpha still exists. See page 168.
Due the Burrocks, after those horror and most un-clanlike these rebels did during the conflict, the name and reputation of Clan Burrock is forever tainted.
You can see the shame of many of ex Burrocks becaue there was less opposition versus the Trials of Loyalty in 3073.
The Burrocks are history.
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That's okay, I'm a big fan of history. Besides, my Clans aren't past 3055 yet.
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???
Alpha still exists. See page 168.
I missed that some how... geez. I guess when the 5th left I just lost all hope.
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IWM order # 1 complete
Warhawk, Blood Asp, Executioner, Cauldron Born, Timberwolf (yeah it changed some)
Now I just need paint glue and stuff since I have not put together a mini in over a decade.
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When I was a kid, snakes were something to run over with a lawnmower. The Burrocks are designing a really BIG lawnmower in secret......
But then they stuck their head inside it to see if it worked?
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But then they stuck their head inside it to see if it worked?
Nah, that's what we use captured Spirits for.
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Nah, that's what we use captured Spirits for.
Wait you guys are hiding again AND you have Spirits with you? Man, you are in for another patented Banacek Adder mask Hulk smash.
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The only remaining Burrocks are the actual animals.
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First time I've been called an animal. Can I have that in writing to show the ladies?
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I'm surry, The only remaining Burrocks left are the actual bugs.
That's what I menat to say :D
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I put a self imposed 2 week ban on inciting riots on this forum by celebrating.
It has been 2 weeks. I know this board is short on Adder fans and heavy on Adder haters.
But I got to say:
WE WIN!!!
How freaking awesome are the Adders? Clan Davion... sure becasue we just monkey stomped everybody. Fight like a clan... or we will destroy your entire planet from orbit.
FEAR US!!!
And you wonder why the Adders have so many "haters". ;)
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It's better to be a living winner than a dead loser.
I like the Star Adders more now because they're winners. (They're still not my favorite faction though).
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I like them more because they played the Vipers beautifully, and because they've stepped up well to a leadership role...instead of becoming tyrants, they've instead chosen to act as guardians. And it would've been easy to slip into tyranny. I respect that a lot.
And in case anyone was wondering, I'm not even mad that they took out my Blood Spirits. There was gonna be a reckoning, and at least the Spirits fought well and never bowed their necks to the inevitable. That's all I ever wanted for my Clan, to die on their feet as warriors and not on their knees as *****es. :)
Here's to a new century of possibilities!
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And you wonder why the Adders have so many "haters". ;)
I never wondered actually, I just thought it was because they have a big touamn and are vanilla. Oh, and when little brother kicked them in the shin they responded by hitting the little guy over the head with a large hammer... repeatedly. ;)
I can see all the reasons folks don't like the Adders, and I can't argue with some of them.
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Adders are snakes. What's not to hate?
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Adders are snakes. What's not to hate?
Better a snake than a giant worm
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I never wondered actually, I just thought it was because they have a big touamn and are vanilla. Oh, and when little brother kicked them in the shin they responded by hitting the little guy over the head with a large hammer... repeatedly. ;)
I can see all the reasons folks don't like the Adders, and I can't argue with some of them.
I was actually referring to the obnoxious behavior of some of their fans. The Adders themselves are alright, if rather bland/vanilla. I'd actually kinda like them if not for their fanbase.
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I was actually referring to the obnoxious behavior of some of their fans. The Adders themselves are alright, if rather bland/vanilla. I'd actually kinda like them if not for their fanbase.
We gotta be vocal, look at this thread, there are like 7 of us (and I'm counting the 2 Burrocks to inflate the numbers)
Besides, I imposed a 2 week grieving period moratorium before any gloating.
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One thing is certain, the Burrock thread is never going to be locked for having too many pages.
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Adders are snakes. What's not to hate?
Whats the problem with snakes?
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Snakes have a negative stigma and are considered bad/evil/mean by many cultures. Not so much for the clans.
The Adders are supposed to be patient and pragmatic which the WoR shows very well, it also shows they don't mess around when they finally strike. Don't believe me? Ask Brett Andrews about his headache.
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It's better to be a living winner than a dead loser.
i strongly disagree with that statement, and i know a lot of fans would disagree as well. i know most fans would like to have their fav faction live and be awesome, but having the cake and eating it isn't always a possible scenario (unless you're an adder fan, which i happen to be as well). personally i'd rather see my favourite factions do awesome stuff and die out while doing it than live a long and vanilla life
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i strongly disagree with that statement, and i know a lot of fans would disagree as well. i know most fans would like to have their fav faction live and be awesome, but having the cake and eating it isn't always a possible scenario (unless you're an adder fan, which i happen to be as well). personally i'd rather see my favourite factions do awesome stuff and die out while doing it than live a long and vanilla life
Yeah but as an Adder fan you have to admit there is a little more spice now. We won't ever be as colorful as the Spirits, Mandrills, Hellions, Burrocks, or Scorpions. But if you stop and look at the clans still standing in 3085: Wolves, Falcons, Bears, Horses, Ravens, Sharks, Adders, Cobras, and Yotes (Lions omitted) they were all the most normalized clans. They all have quirks but the reality is they are all fairly normal and have no out-there quirks like some of the dead clans. The clans that live on are the most "clan general" factions.
Now truth be told I would rather die in glory than live on in boredom, but I do not think the Adders are doing that.
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well i disagree with you list of clans that you seem to think are normalized, i suppose i sort of agree to a certain degree. the character of n'buta gave the adders spice, and whether their about to play the role of caretaker or a far more interesting role than that is unknown. from their position they have the potential to become something really cool or something horrendously boring. we also don't know what the home clans do between now and the DA, do they stagnate like the IS clans, or are they actually doing something worth noting. a little spice isn't nearly as exciting as what happened some other clans, so it's entirely in the eye of the beholder. i emphasize that this is coming from the eye of someone that likes all clans (except coyotes) and so i don't think i'm to bias
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I don't want to start a huge debate as what I call "normalized" covers a broad spectrum but it is not overtly weird like the Scorpions (drugs) Nova Cats (hippies) Mandrills (how many clans does their clan have?), Hellions (rage issues all the time), Spirits (isolationism to the extreme) Burrocks (everything they do flies in the face of clan law)
By the DA the IS clans are pretty much all way off the normal path, save maybe the Horses.
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STARRRRRRRRRRR DAVION ASSEMBLE!!!!1111
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I don't want to start a huge debate as what I call "normalized" covers a broad spectrum but it is not overtly weird like the Scorpions (drugs) Nova Cats (hippies) Mandrills (how many clans does their clan have?), Hellions (rage issues all the time), Spirits (isolationism to the extreme) Burrocks (everything they do flies in the face of clan law)
By the DA the IS clans are pretty much all way off the normal path, save maybe the Horses.
all i said was that your list includes clans i would never put on it, in fact it's difficult to put any clan under the nebulous umbrella of 'normalized' whatever that means, the way i interpret it however is probably different from you. for example, there's no way the horses are normalized, they've been odd from the very get go-no bias, just the easiest example
either way i agree, semantics are a slippery slope as far as discussion goes
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Daishi, we are on the same page.
STARRRRRRRRRRR DAVION ASSEMBLE!!!!1111
As for you Fear Factory... well. I have always been a big fan they slaying of zombies. Glad have some undead in the home worlds
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I don't want to start a huge debate as what I call "normalized" covers a broad spectrum but it is not overtly weird like the Scorpions (drugs) Nova Cats (hippies) Mandrills (how many clans does their clan have?), Hellions (rage issues all the time), Spirits (isolationism to the extreme) Burrocks (everything they do flies in the face of clan law)
...Hippies wanted peace, love, and understanding. Nova Cats want to see you twitching on the floor as they kill you. Slight difference between the two.
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...Hippies wanted peace, love, and understanding. Nova Cats want to see you twitching on the floor as they kill you. Slight difference between the two.
Yeah good point, they aways seemed like the softer side of the clans.
P.S. my first faction was the Jags
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Star Adders cannot be normal - at least not in a way we would see it real life. They are still clansmen. They are strange !
But i started to pick the Adders as my faction, because they represented what i could understand as true heirs of the original SLDF. Not the cracy kids that tumble on each other while they were playing with cool toys.
I liked the way the wolves were describe in the initial invasion. Hard fighting warriors that are able to think. But they were misshaped later by the writers. The Adders truly understand what it means to be an army.
That is boring for many players ? I don't understand why to play a combat simulation and blame the one faction that is able to do exactly that. But thats just me. ;) And yes, there are also other factions around that have understand something. 8)
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The Adder Khans ability to think and plan for the long term is why they are on top. But their ambition seems to rival anything found in the IS. That change between the two spheres never seems to have happened.
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But their ambition seems to rival anything found in the IS. That change between the two spheres never seems to have happened.
Not really. They did not set out take control of everything. They did not destroy everything in their path, only certain things. Their ambition is to unify the clans and take back Terra together. That is their interpretation of Kerensky's vision. Not to rule the entire thing or sit on Terra alone.
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The Adder Khans ability to think and plan for the long term is why they are on top. But their ambition seems to rival anything found in the IS. That change between the two spheres never seems to have happened.
That is ok.
Only so great empires have been built successfully .
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So now after some time If you Adder players have been playing a character, how did he/she fare in the WoR?
Before the WoR, I had two chars, both of the same bloodhouse. The female (the younger one) died because she got infected on Priori. She was declared as being tainted.
The older, a male, fought successfully in any trial (York, Albion, Priori, Circe, New Kent), got awarded due his stern service and survived the conflict.
Because he had sponsored the female for a bloodname he fought a Trial of Grievance against her getting declared tainted and won.
Now after that horrible conflict and getting old and mentally hurt (for Clan standards ;) ), he quited his warrior status and went to a Cobra`s cloister.
Time to start a new :)
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I actually gotta go back a bit and make some adjustments to my Adder character, because I had her written all the way up to 3075, but the WoR book means drastic changes to her story...
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My only Adder character was a former Burrock. I guess thigns worked out "well" for him
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I don't think you can call any Clan "normal". It seems they all took a slightly varied track away from where they started. Some just wandered a little farther than others.
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I had two Characters at the end with Star Adder origin.
But one of them left the clans long ago attached to Upsilon and after an odyssey he stranded with the Brotherhood of Randis. You cannot count him really. :D
The other one - a staunch crusader - fought with the Tau Galaxy in the Burrock Absorption and stayed with that unit. I assume he will join the fate of that Galaxy. :-\
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What do you mean? Tau survived the WoR.
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They did, though they must have taken many losses. Even in 3085 they're still very understrength.
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My character was in the 5th Assault... I wanted to create and IS clan character after the WoR, that sort of worked itself out for me since he's now a Horsey.
I'm working on fleshing out a new Adder character now.
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They did, though they must have taken many losses. Even in 3085 they're still very understrength.
Agreed, but whole Adder touman is very understrength (that TO&E was summarized shortly after the brutal and bloody Spirit annihilation).
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My character was in the 97th Adder Sentinels, Xi Galaxy. Freeborn MechWarrior, son of freeborn aerospace KIA pilot and civilian trader. Young and calm man, pilot of Huncback IIC BattleMech. ;-)
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What do you mean? Tau survived the WoR.
Sure, but not my selected cluster. Anyway the 286th Adder Sentinels have their entry and are going in a good way. [fiddle]
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They died in a good way for a Clanner to die.
Generally I wonder why the Adders do have so many active clusters. Many of them are very understrength and, IMHO, can hardly be considered as battleworthy.
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They died in a good way for a Clanner to die.
Generally I wonder why the Adders do have so many active clusters. Many of them are very understrength and, IMHO, can hardly be considered as battleworthy.
A product of Adder strategy durning the WoR maybe... they consolidated early so have more survivng clusters although they are battered pretty badly from heavy fighting, but because they consolidated they had fewer clusters or units left in the cold to be totally destroyed. The Founders Future is so soon afer the WoR and Spirit anihilation that they may have not restructured yet. It is also possible that the Adders have enough infrastructure left to rebuild both man and material to refill alot of the gaps.
Remember we plan ahead, so Adder leadership may have a good idea where the clan stands with infrastructure. I would not be surprised if the Adders had a complete plan for rebuilding even before the Spirit trial.
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IMHO, clusters with a strength of 10-25% are not combat-worthy.
Better to combine such depleted units (per trials between COs), and then reviving the disbanded unit.
As the Adders did before.
Maybe they want to save the battlehardened comannd structure.
Furthermore, I have wondered why did the Adders did not form new units during the WoR, at least one? Nothing.
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Maybe 10% are enough for all needs they see in the moment ? Combining them would give them smaller number of units to deploy - or they would have to split them immediately after combining.
And why form new units during the WoR while you face massive destruction and it is hard enough to keep existing units alive ?
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I also wondered why they would not have consolidated units to create new units during the WoR, maybe they just didn't have the time to go through the trials associated with it. Well, we have these two beat up clusters so let's combine them... Star Colonel and Star Captains then fight trials for command. Better to just say Star Colonel Jim, Star Colonel Bob your clusters are fighting together until we get this mess with the Society, Dark Caste, Burrocks, Vipers, and Spirits all figured out.
The Adders have always been practical, if the opportunity and need to combine units at 15-20% strength was there I am pretty sure it would happen. Maybe they intend to rebuild based off of what they still have.
Also... if we're going to rebuild units, can I get the 5th back, please?
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And why form new units during the WoR while you face massive destruction and it is hard enough to keep existing units alive ?
Hmm ... agreed, given the very large pre-WoR touman they had their hands full to keep their existing units relatively intact.
However I would like to know if they have changed the composition of their cluster, for example increasing numbers of Protomechs.
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I agree that 10% or 20% is barely combat worthy. 10% of a roughly average Cluster is a Star of mechs, a couple of points of Elementals and a few ASF.
Maybe the Adders are keen to maintain a large 'paper' Touman for appearances sake, while also planning to funnel replacements into these Clusters as soon as they can to bring them up to strength.
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I'm not aware of any love for Protomechs within the Star Adders that would led to an overall change in organization. The last major change comes with the Burrock "absorption" when we increased our numbers of BAs. That might led to another change now when we have lost so many Burrock Elementals. So i think the touman will look like before with many heavy and assault mechs.
10% is the number of battle ready units, correct ? As far as i know the usual omnimech is easy to repair and battlefield salvage should be accessable in numbers. So if you have an official touman short after a heavy conflict of 10%, you may have some weeks later 30-40% ready. Remember how fast some clans recovered from earlier clashes like Tukayyid or the Refusal War. Having all the clusters still on the list can just show the impression of our leadership that they can rebuilt the rest in near future. And then you have a core of battle hardened warriors you can fill the officer ranks of these units, who know each others very well and can lead the new blood.
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Upon further review...
Comparing the Adder Touman in 3067 and post WoR it looks like TPTB just took a cluster or two out of each galaxy and knocked down the strengths here and there of those that remained. How complicated this process actually was and how much time/thought went into I am not going to speculate on as I read the tweets and blogs leading up to the release and I understand how much work went into this book.
Logically, not only could the Adders consolidate clusters but also entire galaxies. We could cut 3-4 galaxies of understrength troops and consolidate down to 8-9 fully operational units.
My guess is the Adders having to spread out across much more territory is a possible reason for the mass of understrength units. It is also harder to consolidate and then replace units than to rebuild units with exisiting infrastructure. This may be a very promising sign for us.
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Given the situation between the Homeworld Clans post-WoR and the absence of the Spheroid Clans, the Adders have a relative calm in which to rebuild and bring their touman back up to strength...but with the destruction of so much during the Wars, both in lives and in infrastructure, I doubt the Adders will ever be what they once were. The Clans are just not built for the sort of the sort of longterm peace that they would need to make good all their losses.
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Considering that they couldn't make new sibkos for five years, I expect it to take some time for them to re-build. If the other clans decide they're too big for everyone else's own good, they may decide to play pile-on-the-Adders.
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Meh, I doubt it.
The other clans would have a hard enough time getting to the Adders main worlds since the Adder navy, although greatly diminshed is still far superior. Also, the new era of cooperation means the clans should benefit by working together. It is certainly to the other 3's benefit
The key for success will be rebuilding the ideals of rivalry not hatred among the remaining clans. Trialing and combat need to exist within the original ground work of friendly competition.
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The Clans are just not built for the sort of the sort of longterm peace that they would need to make good all their losses.
There is a difference between an overall peace agreement and the Way of the clans. I always had the impression that the Adders knew that difference. They prepared well for the war that must have to come. But in the time of preparation they used smaller trials to sharpen their skills.
With a leading clan in the homeworlds that understands the value of long term planning, i doubt that the IS can rest in savety.
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And yet, understanding the value of long-term planning as they do, the Adders still have younger warriors who aren't content with the current situation. Though it's a long gap between 3085 and 3150, and a lot can happen in that timeframe...both to the Adders' benefit and to their detriment. It's impossible to predict what their future holds between "now" and when we get to the next BattleTech era.
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It's impossible to predict what their future holds between "now" and when we get to the next BattleTech era.
Correct - it's "impossible to predict". And i've seen several times now that this means for many people "impossible to happen". I just wanted to have that clarified. ;)
But why should the younger warriors not be content with the current situation ? They were trained and educated by older Adder warriors and they were not sealed in the time of WoR. So they should be very well aware of the current situation and the heritage of their clan. But maybe i misunderstood your point. ???
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The Founders Future section of WoR says young Adder warriors are basically restless and unblooded and itching to prove themselves. It's what they were bred to do.
If the Adders can get back to Trials and even war gaming since they have an entire Op-For galaxy and were notorious for it before they may quell the discontent. Or they can start attacking the Periphery states... and why are all the CHH periphery listening posts no longer in their possession circa 3130???
Also, if the Adders can show the other clans how they prepared for Revival, how they trained to fight the IS there may be hope for a worthwhile invasion.
(Just as an aside the Adders are not perfect at the whole "way of the clans thing" in regards to healthy competition. They pretty much systematically dismantled the Blood Spirits in some VERY un-clan like ways. Otherwise they held pretty true to the original guidelines, more so than most.)
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Given the possessions each of the remaining HomeClans have in 3085 they are roughly equal, so each Clan should have a good economic base for repairing the damage and start new programs (sibkos, technologies et cetera).
The Adders do have a good stand from the beginning and due to their prolonged warfare against the Spirits are used to keep their military-industrial complex, logistics and population in a good and effective shape.
Furthermore it seems that they are content to let the other Clans recover.
They do have other targets as the Imperio, that is going to be a primary one for the young warriors.
And they might organize somewhat of a warrior reserve pool.
Another change could be the new organizing of "warrior-engineering teams".
So far many of the discontent young warriors have been punished by transferring these culprits to commands they have to do mental works. Giving the dire need for reconstruction these trained pilots could pilot working mechs (or modified Omnimechs either). Warriors could be held busy and the relation between the castes would be improved. BTW the warriors would learn more, giving them broader views and making them more capable of adapting.
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The one disadvantage that the Home Clans have is that they have only a limited number of opponents to trial against. After a certain length of time, those few opponents become familiar, and the training stagnates for lack of new techniques.
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They fought each other isolated for several hundred years. Training only stagnates if you not allow to react on tactical decisions of your opponent. ;)
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Furthermore, even in isolation you can develop new warfare concepts far more advanced and effective than anything the IS is capable to do.
The Homeclans know their very people and way to life is threatened by the IS. They know they do not have the manpower nor resources to compete with the IS. So they must be find new ways and technologies to get their chances up to win the future conflict.
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And as i said before it is not that the IS faced a time of peace and prosper since 3067. There is no mighty army waiting for the homeworld clans.
Ok, i think the best time of a new invasion is gone with the Dark Age blackout. As far as i understood the MWDA timeline the armies are now rebuilding and growing again in the IS ...
But they were also hardly depleted after the Jihad and cannot be compared to the time between 3050 and 3067.
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It will be a long time before we know for sure, but I think we will see some form of contact between the homeworlds and IS.
I think the Adders will be a key part of what eventually transpires
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I think that's pretty much obvious. ;)
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I think that's pretty much obvious. ;)
Unless we missed a couple hidden worlds...
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Nah, I'd rather keep my own faction dead than have them continue to be written poorly and out-of-character, thanks. ;)
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You do not tell us that the WoR story of the Spirits was done poorly and out-of-character, do you?
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Nah, I'd rather keep my own faction dead than have them continue to be written poorly and out-of-character, thanks. ;)
I do not think they were out of character in the WoR.
At what point did they deviate from previous CANON information about them?
(not challenging you, just curious as to what you think was actually off)
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You do not tell us that the WoR story of the Spirits was done poorly and out-of-character, do you?
Yes, I do, but I won't be rude and clutter up the Adder thread with it, since they weren't a part of why I have my issues with the situation. We can certainly discuss it in the Spirit thread, though, where it's more appropriate.
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Something I would like to see for the Clans is the Machina Domini technology of WoB.
IMHO it is a fantastic piece of technology.
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Something I would like to see for the Clans is the Machina Domini technology of WoB.
IMHO it is a fantastic piece of technology.
No thanks... that is way off the path of the clan way.
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I would think that the MD idea would be totally opposed to the Clan way of thinking. They believe in breeding superior warriors, not creating them like machines.
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I think the biggest problem would be blending caste lines, just like with LAMs.
It's a MECH piloted by a BATTLESUIT.
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Hmm, I do not see a problem. It is just a PA(L), IMHO, nothing more than an improved version of a neuro suit. The pilot does have a better direct "human" access to Mech control.
Something similar the Clan already have: see rules for the Ultraheavy Protomechs` Control Systems.
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I would think that the MD idea would be totally opposed to the Clan way of thinking. They believe in breeding superior warriors, not creating them like machines.
That didn't stop the Clans from using Enhanced Imaging or prosthetic limbs. I for one would not mind seeing some Clans begin to explore military cybernetics and maybe even go further than the Word of Blake in some areas.
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There's a difference between EI (which is still very controversial even amongst the hardcore Crusaders) and prosthetics (which are done as necessities; you don't see anyone voluntarily hacking off limbs) and willfully becoming cyborgs. The idea runs counter to the Clans' way of thinking, broadcasting that the warrior isn't good enough on his own.
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There's a difference between EI (which is still very controversial even amongst the hardcore Crusaders) and prosthetics (which are done as necessities; you don't see anyone voluntarily hacking off limbs) and willfully becoming cyborgs. The idea runs counter to the Clans' way of thinking, broadcasting that the warrior isn't good enough on his own.
But a weak human body limits warrior spirit ;)
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You are going a dangerous way Gäiten - a way leading to tainted views ...
It was always the believe on technic that corrupts the way of warriors and led to destruction and downfall.
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You may declare a Trial of Refusal :)
I do not think that technology corrupts the warrior, the warrior must define how technology does help optimizing his/her battle performance.
Without ongoing development of technology, would you want to fight Mech with a club?
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There is a difference in improving the warriors equipment and creating a substitute.
Or even worse to clear the way for a mob, not trained in and not familiar with the way of the warrior. Because that's what always happens, when you believe you can replace warriors with technic.
I totally agree to improve the connectivity of warrior with his machine. I'm with you in refine our production processes. I support any new weapon development or improvement. But the focus must be the education and training of the new warriors. Don't let the history repeat itself !
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Technology to improve poor warrior skill is what the Society was about... let's not go down that road please.
We don't need that kind of tech. We do however need iATM's, Super Heavies, and a Blood Asp II
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I think the biggest problem would be blending caste lines, just like with LAMs.
It's a MECH piloted by a BATTLESUIT.
So, it's a Grey Knight Dreadknight? :P
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*grumble* Got reaved (my old account), but now I am back :)
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Whoa... no reaving of Adders allowed! There's only like 6 of us on this board.
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Huh? What happened?
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Likely a bit of pilotical gambling by the Ravens. 8)
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My old account has gotten somewhat corrupted.
Was Gäiten, now it Gäiten. Password does not work anymore and the "Forgot my password" option has not worked.
That I call a Reaving :D
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Have played with the Superheavy construction rules, though I think they do not have a good cost-benefit ratio, I have designed two variants which could be interesting for garrison forces.
The first is 130t design which can move 3/5, the second is a 200t, which can move 2/3.
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Likely a bit of pilotical gambling by the Ravens. 8)
Whoops, we missed one.
Whoever is in charge please stop reaving Gaiten.
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I see. Well, my Avatar was also purged. Gonna find these responsible and bring them to justice. :)
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I strongly recommend the "York" solution }:)
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Likely a bit of pilotical gambling by the Ravens. 8)
It wasn't us. In fact, my sig pic got reaved. I'd guess that it was a Society Blood Spirit or Viper. You needed to be more thorough with those lower castemen you captured. :P
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Indeed our Adder's Adjutant have to learn the difference between Lower Caste workers and Dark Caste thiefs. :D
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I haven't seen Fear Factory or Hawkeye Jim for a looong time.
Missing Burrocks... I think we have an answer
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OK Adders help a brother out
IWM has new mech packs with several clan stars http://ironwindmetals.com/store/index.php?cPath=16_44_260 (http://ironwindmetals.com/store/index.php?cPath=16_44_260)
I need 2 more stars for my 5th Assault Trinary (circa 3067). I was thinking one Jag assault pack (Cauldron-Born, Mad Dog, Hellbringer, Warhawk, Dire Wolf) and one Bear assault pack (Mad Dog, Summoner, Kingfisher, Kodiak, Executioner) would be a nice fit if I drop the Kodiak for a Blood Asp.
The star I have already is Executioner, Warhawk, Blood Asp, Timber Wolf, Cauldron-Born.
I see some flexibility here as I can mix up stars and put a 5/8 heavy star on the table if needed.
I know the Adders have access to just about everything produced in the HW, is there any other mech I can sub in for one of these that would make the force more "Adder"?
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What about a star completely consisting of Summoners? A very mobile battle star.
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If you are not only searching for omnis, you can use Hellfires or Burrocks to make the stars more Adder-like.
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If you are not only searching for omnis, you can use Hellfires or Burrocks to make the stars more Adder-like.
I thought about that but pre-reaving Alpha is fluffed out as being all omni. The reality is it is a force that will not likely see much time on a table due to insane BV. I still feel obligated to paint it and display it at least as it was my primary unit. I'll likely just paint it black and blue with out the highlights so some of the mechs can be used as parts of other Adder forces and actually see a table at some point.
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You can bring them on the table also as a smoke jaguar force, if you want to play. There is no restriction that you have to paint your minis accordingly. ???
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Yeah, I was a Jag player before they died and the idea of them doubling as a Jag unit is pretty tempting as well.
I just want to paint up some minis, one part of BT that I liked that I still miss since none of my new ones are painted yet.
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The nice thing about Clan Star Adder is that every unit has virtually the same colors. Just make everything deep dark blue with blood red highlights and you're good to go!
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The nice thing about Clan Star Adder is that every unit has virtually the same colors. Just make everything deep dark blue with blood red highlights and you're good to go!
If by same colors, you mean the basic black and dark blue, yes. The only units using red highlights are Gamma, Sigma, and the Quasar Keshik per CamoSpecs. Only Sigma uses only red.
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Yup most everybody is some variation of Black and deep blue. Alpha and Beta are almost identical except one uses gold highlights and one uses tan... for a shocking difference.
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Because my superheavy Mech design was moved to the Fan Design, here is the link:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,12594.0.html
You may discuss here.
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No comments?
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I have not found it, dude. Only the general forum. Whats the name of the creation? (I also don't know much about SHs, but most time aka the few I have seen, they suck) Better link?
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It's just not my preferred timeline. ;)
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* grmbl* Seems it was moved again.
Upper link is updated.
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@ Wotan:
What is your preferred timeline?
I am going on with the story`s current .... :)
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Hm, I dont even know the new weapon's abilities, it has 2 Peps, 1 ATM and a HAG, all the smaller stuff is nice, but I guess anyone who can avoids this range, or is so fast (iJJs) to jump right into its back.
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The arguments about getting behind them is reasonable, for that I would fit both SSRM6 to the back.
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Good news for us - IWM has included two more configs for our beloved Blood Asp to their online shop. [rockon]
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Good news for us - IWM has included two more configs for our beloved Blood Asp to their online shop. [rockon]
Whaaaaa????? :D
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I just read the WoR and stumble over an entry that describes our garrison on the Tanite worlds as somewhat lax. That doesn't fit to earlier description for our Tau galaxy that took station there for some time to rebuild and come back as an overall veteran force where it had some green and regular clusters before in the FM: CC.
So what do you think. Was this lax duty just the case for the traitors or is there really an issue with our secondline units ?
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IMHO that lax attitude was largely done during the time Rho ( a galaxy with a higher than average percentage of exBurrocks) was garrisoning the Tanites. Galaxy Commander Kenneth Hutchinson was the final link given what he did.
The Burrocks`rebellion is a very interesting aspect of the WoR. Honestly I expected a far more serious uprising splitting the Clan in two halves. What I thought as being grave mistakes (the lax attitude towards Burrock hardliners and chauvinists instead of crushing them and moving them to other places and units where they concentrate their numbers til the uprising) seem to be a good idea, they separated the future traitors from the people who adapted and so the rebellions were limited to only few places (Priori and Tanites).
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It appears the bulk of the Burrock lower castes assimilated fairly well and some of the warriors did as well so the problem could have been worse.
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The damage that rebellion was immense (loss of people and resources alike). Without the Adders could have acted more decisively and rapidly.
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I always wondered why Upsilon was send without clear operating plan to the deep peripherie instead throwing them at York until the last hardliner was happy dying against the Spirits.
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I always wondered why Upsilon was send without clear operating plan to the deep peripherie instead throwing them at York until the last hardliner was happy dying against the Spirits.
The plan was pretty clear; pave the way for a new invasion.
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Correct, but it would have been better if those have been among the warriors fighting and dying on York. However I believe those exBurrocks understood the true intentions of the Adder leadership behind. They did not volunteer.
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The plan behind is clear, but not formulated. "Go out and do something" isn't a good order if you want to prepare a successfull invasion. It seems that the leadership lost interest after their departure.
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The plan behind is clear, but not formulated. "Go out and do something" isn't a good order if you want to prepare a successfull invasion. It seems that the leadership lost interest after their departure.
Less so much lost interest and more got side tracked by the start of a massive civil war, but yes lost it one way or the other. The Upsilon thing seemed very unAdder like, it was a tactical move but not backed by sound strategy.
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I do not think so.
Upsilon`s mission was intended to be very indepentently executed from the Clan`s logistical network.
As long the mission briefings and reports came in, there was no need to be concerned of something went wrong.
Generally, given the Burrock matter the Adders were very naive, firstly I thought that could have been the reason for a Trial of Absorption declared against them. Maybe the Vipes could have done that if the Adders had not outsmarted them.
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Personally, I still think the Burrocks are around. They basically escaped twice and I think they are so deep in the dark that orbital bombardment won't even matter.
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Personally, I still think the Burrocks are around. They basically escaped twice and I think they are so deep in the dark that orbital bombardment won't even matter.
I agree, the amimal called Burrock is stil around and many lived deep-burrowed into the ground ;)
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Personally, I still think the Burrocks are around. They basically escaped twice and I think they are so deep in the dark that orbital bombardment won't even matter.
Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.
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Personally, I still think the Burrocks are around. They basically escaped twice and I think they are so deep in the dark that orbital bombardment won't even matter.
Clan Zombie is probably gone as any sort of organized force. I'm sure there still are Burrocks wandering the wastes of some of the wrecked home worlds though.
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Personally, I think that's wishful thinking.
Yeah? I was told "wishful thinking" by plenty on these forums until WoR came out.
Clan Zombie is probably gone as any sort of organized force. I'm sure there still are Burrocks wandering the wastes of some of the wrecked home worlds though.
Basically. I can see some pirate bands/dark caste forces still lurking after the fact with some Burrocks.
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Maybe, but who cares?
After the WoR and the annihilation the Adders did to the Dark I doubt that there is any group left large enough to make problems for the Homeclans. Just some dispersed survivors.
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Maybe, but who cares?
After the WoR and the annihilation the Adders did to the Dark I doubt that there is any group left large enough to make problems for the Homeclans. Just some dispersed survivors.
Adders wouldn't care seeing how they are the new Wolf. ;)
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Maybe, but who cares?
After the WoR and the annihilation the Adders did to the Dark I doubt that there is any group left large enough to make problems for the Homeclans. Just some dispersed survivors.
Sadly thats the same believe as after Operation Klondike. :-\
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Adders wouldn't care seeing how they are the new Wolf. ;)
Ok that is kind of true and sort of funny, but seriously the Adders pretty much scorch earthed anywhere they found Burrocks. If any survivors are smart and they have jumpships they'd be better off jumping away from the homeworlds for good.
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What do you think are the lessons from the WoR?
IMHO the civilian castes have to be granted a stronger say.
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Froliche Weihnachten my Adder clansmen.
Or Merry Christmas for those of us in the new world.
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What are for the brightest and darkest events of the WoR?
For me, the brightest were the creation of the Stone Lions and the outsmarting of the Vipers.
The darkest was the planetary annihilation of York.
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Darkest ? The killing of our khan and the destruction of my favorite cluster. :'(
Brightest ? To see us survive while our enemies are crushed. }:)
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Darkest: N'buta dying, the Burrocks coming back, the 5th becoming Horses (they were my favorites), and the destruction of York.
Brightest: Hannibal smashing Andrews face in, the warriors beating down the Society, and the Adders surviving the wars with some kind of strength intact
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Hmm, given what N`Buta did to let the WoR escalate, I can hardly moarn him.
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I thought Dante Truscott's death was much more tragic than N'Buta's, although it was sad to see them both go.
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Hmm, given what N`Buta did to let the WoR escalate, I can hardly moarn him.
He was the ultimate fiddler... and Andrews was the fiddle.
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Hmm, given what N`Buta did to let the WoR escalate, I can hardly moarn him.
Had he really the chance to avoid the escalation ? To that time disagreeing with Andrew would only mean to bring the Adders against the Vipers - ultimately destroying both clans.
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Happy New Year to all of you!
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Had he really the chance to avoid the escalation ? To that time disagreeing with Andrew would only mean to bring the Adders against the Vipers - ultimately destroying both clans.
He did not see (or may worse he ignored) the ex-Burrocks` dealings and moves. It was so naive.
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This little Burrock discontent alone wouldn't have bothered us much. If not for the blackout and all the other trouble around the coup on the Tanite worlds wouldn't have last for long. There was no real danger - and it seems most of the Burrocks stand loyal to us.
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I agree with Wotan. The Adders for the most part behaved like an organized military in the early Reaving calls when some clans started to break down. N'buta wanted the invaders gone and when the Vipers started beating them out the Adders let them do the heavy lifting. N'buta let the Vipers do a lot of the dirty work and he knew they went too far but he waited until the time was right to make his move.
As for the Burrock resurection they hid themselves well and once the Adders knew what was up Banacek knocked them out pretty quick.
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The damage done by that rebellion was vast, see the losses of the touman suffered in battle, most of our warship losses and some of the most serious enclave losses (Priori, Tanite worlds) can be correlated to that rebellion.
Furthermore do not forget that Stanislov was Adder Adjutant for a long time, he was up to get the ex Burrocks integrate into the Adder Clan. He was something laxy.
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The damage done by that rebellion was vast, see the losses of the touman suffered in battle, most of our warship losses and some of the most serious enclave losses (Priori, Tanite worlds) can be correlated to that rebellion.
Furthermore do not forget that Stanislov was Adder Adjutant for a long time, he was up to get the ex Burrocks integrate into the Adder Clan. He was something laxy.
N'buta did a good job of trying to integrate the Burrocks... the Burrocks that actually weren't corrupted by the dark fit in well. I agree making an all Burrock galaxy and then sending them into the periphery and leaving them to their own devices was short sited on his part but the majority of Burrock warriors and lower caste assimilated appropriately.
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I mised the point that Priori fall also prey to the Burrocks. I had the society in mind for Priori. In the end it was a mix. But ... wasn't there any garrison from our side ? P.132 doesn't speak of any Adder force that was overwhelmed there. ???
Same for Tanis itself. We only knew Rho was transferred out. And the rebels of Burrocks fight the Cobras - but no Adder force is mentioned. I know that we had a galaxy there since the takeover. But who followed Rho ?
We held nearly 50% of the Tanite worlds and had no garrison force there ? :))
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The Adders pulled garrison forces back to Sheridan pretty early on when they were consolidating forces. They didn't know what was going on so they just left worlds undefended in some cases to try and consolidate their strength.
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That doesn't fit. Tanis fell in January 3072, Priori a month after HGP blackout (wish was also in January iirc).
P.104 states August 3072 as the time where the Adder khans reconsolidate our touman.
This would be a half year after the fall of an undefended Tanis and Priori ...
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That doesn't fit. Tanis fell in January 3072, Priori a month after HGP blackout (wish was also in January iirc).
P.104 states August 3072 as the time where the Adder khans reconsolidate our touman.
This would be a half year after the fall of an undefended Tanis and Priori ...
You beat me to it. I was just coming back to correct my post after rechecking the dates. That is strange.
Possible that the force rotated into the Tanites was Burrock heavy and they turned? What galaxy was on Priori, WoR doesn't list one?
Here's another question... What's with the 5 unblood named star colonels after the WoR? Seems strange that there would be that many. No other clan appears to have more than 1 if any.
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Don't forget that some of the bloodlines were tainted by the Society. Could be the Adders either didn't have time to replace all the blooded warriors lost or weren't ready to.
The Society/Dark caste/Burrock connection seems to imply that the Society had previously had long term contacts with either the Burrocks or the Dark Caste. It's unlikely to have formed that well over a short time.
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That was something I hoped the supplemental would cover (if we ever get one) how deep were the dark and the society connected and for how long. And how much did the Burrocks who were involved know about the society.
I really hope the supplemental is from a Homeworld perspective.
In other news I just glued the arms on a Warhawk A mini to complete my Alpha Galaxy trinary. I'll put the pics up here as well as the mini section once they are painted.
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Keep in mind that there's a lot of material in the pipeline for them to deal with. They haven't announced cancelling the Supplemental, so my guess is they're still working on it. It just may not be the priority that certain other books are at the moment. (Field Manual 3085 comes to mind.)
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I wonder if the Renegade Burrocks got involved with the Society thru the DK. Or did the Soceity connect with the DK thru the Burrocks.
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I think we shouldn't criticize the Adder Khans' damning lax treatment of the Burrocks that badly. They probably never would have gone renegade if they hadn't had the support of the Society and I don't think anyone could have predicted their long reach across the Clans. Otherwise, the unhappy Burrocks probably would have probably just skulked until they all got old and died and that would have been the end of it.
Oh, and my "Brightest Moment" of the Wars of Reaving was probably the devastation of the Blood Spirits on York, Haven and Honor.
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How long did the Burrocks know about the society and how much did they know? How bad would a dark caste cooperating Burrock scientist mess up the Adders legacies... yeeeesh that's a perfect storm.
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Given that Priori was such an important industrial hub for the Adders it was not very strongly defended. FM: U has only 2 clusters on planet (428th Sentinels and 822nd Gatekeeper). The 428th did not survive the WoR, but nowhere is mentioned where it was destroyed. Very likely that they stayed on Priori and got destroyed there during the revolt.
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Due the dealings between exBurrocks and Dark Caste, it did not help either that the Adder Watch`s elements responsible for hunting down thoese bandits consisted almost exclusively of exBurrocks (see Covert Ops).
So we are coming back to the lax behavior of the upper Adder leadership.
IMHO, I believe Stanislov N`Buta knew what he did (his failure for properly dealing with exBurrocks and his responsibility due the escalation of the WoR (given his dealings with the Vipers before the start of the WoR)) and he knew that finally he should die by the hands of the Vipers, it was his personal sacrifice and surkairede, giving so the Adders a fresh new beginning.
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Can we really discuss about lax dealings ? Or isn't it more like the usual way of the clans ? They were all adopted and it is to assume that they will work for their new clan from that point on. The initial investigations showed only involvement with the dark caste restricted to the higher command level. And we knew all Burrocks had to test again under Adder rules.
If we assume that Stanislov was a believer in the way - he must trust his new clansmen.
And the short description of Clan Burrock talks about a Burrock society cell. So the society had already set food in the Burrock before their absorption. Given the strong ties between society cells and some dark caste cells and the long time dealings of Burrock leadership with the dark caste, it is a natural conclusion that all 3 were tied for a long time.
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But there were more than single hints that something is not going well. Even external observers wondered about the open very pro-Burrock behavior of many adoptees.
IMHO, the Adder leadership did not want to see, neglecting hints because it did not fit into their way of thinking. It was something of a party truce, given the hostile area the Adders had to face and arrogance.
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But there were more than single hints that something is not going well. Even external observers wondered about the open very pro-Burrock behavior of many adoptees.
Sources ?
IMHO, the Adder leadership did not want to see, neglecting hints because it did not fit into their way of thinking. It was something of a party truce, given the hostile area the Adders had to face and arrogance.
[/quote]
There were several projects to help Burrocks find their home in the Star Adders. There was the focus on the Spirits on York. There was the development of the Burrock mech. And the unrest - Burrocks AND Star Adder in the first writing - were send with Upsilon. But i always wondered the freedom Upsilon had.
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Sources ?
Interstellar Player 2 and see the sub-affiliations in A-Time-of-War.
IMHO, the Adder leadership did not want to see, neglecting hints because it did not fit into their way of thinking. It was something of a party truce, given the hostile area the Adders had to face and arrogance.
There were several projects to help Burrocks find their home in the Star Adders. There was the focus on the Spirits on York. There was the development of the Burrock mech. And the unrest - Burrocks AND Star Adder in the first writing - were send with Upsilon. But i always wondered the freedom Upsilon had.
Agreed, it would have been better if this malcontent would have sent to York to fight and preferably die there.
But maybe those did not want to fight on York (reported is that most were volunteers).
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Wow we've moved to the second page again. Guess thats what we get only having 3 fans.
I am one mech away from having my 5th Assault trinary completely assembled. Now I just need to finish this Executioner and it will be time to base and paint.
How's this sound:
Alpha Star:
Blood Asp A
Warhawk
Executioner
Nova Cat
Night Gyr
Beta Star:
Timberwolf
Cauldron-Born
Cauldron-Born
Mad Dog
Gargoyle
Gamma Star:
Blood Asp
Dire Wolf
Executioner
Timberwolf
Timberwolf H
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I would change the Gargoyle to a C. Thats an easy mod by taking the extra arms from the Stormcrow. And it fit well for a former Burrock warrior. ;)
I also use a Gargoyle C in my 286th Adder Sentinels command nova.
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Oh I know the prime is bad I like the look of the mini though. Those are just the minis I'm using. My opinion on omni's has always been you don't build a unit around configs just chasis and can pull record sheets for different configs for different situations.
As for former Burrocks, I prefer to think that the 5th was exempt from Burrock new comers after the absorption and was stocked with only the best Adder ristars... before being shipped off to the Horses.
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My opinion on omni's has always been you don't build a unit around configs just chasis and can pull record sheets for different configs for different situations.
See it the same - beside that personal taste will sometimes dictate the config as well.
Only mentioned specific config, because you also have some specific configs listed. ;)
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It seems the Homeworlds are going to another long period of in-universe hibernation. What will you do to keep yourself and other Homeclan fans interested?
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I'm goining to wait on the WoR supplemental before I make any plans on what to do, and it seems like we won't have to wait too much longer.
Probably keep working on building a megamek campaign for the Adders and Horses chasing the Burrocks. Also take the time to learn up on some of the IS stuff I've missed.
And of course speculate and hope Herbs constant IlClan references in BattleChats refer to our beloved Adders returning home.
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For myself I will play some campaigns which fit into canon universe and a second option I will develop an AU, wherein I let the Homeclans and Homeworlds evolve as I think they may do.
There are still many known and unknown planets to be both exploit and develop, some powerful adverseries are in the void (Escorpión Imperio, fugitive WoB/Manei Domini, Bandit caste remnants).
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For me there is no problem. There are still enough unfought battles in the time until 3067, so that i'm busy. ;)
I'll continue to paint my cluster and play some games in that era.
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A nice scenario coming up my mind, is the salvaging/recovering of the many, many disabled warships floating around.
IMHO some of them should be reactivated again.
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There is definitely the chane to salvage many warmachines and factories around there. We know that many enclaves were just abandoned in short time. Not all factories are really destroyed, not all brian caches depleted. The WoR left much room if the writers want to use it.
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I will check my lists to see which of those ships may be recoverable.
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I'm very interested to see what priorities the Adders have post WoR. Will it be re-establishing terraforming? Reviving the damaged warships? Repairing the Lev Prime yard? Expanding their raiding territory?
I'd love to see the Adders leading 4 clan task forces out into the periphery to start building the foundation for all 4 clans fighting together. It's the only way to blood new warriors and train for the Adders idealic joint invasion.
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I think they will do everythink you mentioned and more.
Well, IMHO an interesting matter to see is how the HomeClans will achieve the feat that they do not build up such enmities as the old old Clans had done before in isolation.
Competiton among themselves is ok, but never forget that you will have to fight another more important war together one day.
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Do you really think there is something that have to build up ? I think that the remaining homeclans are not really united at the end of WoR - just that exhausted that they have to end brutal fighting.
So the question is, whether the Star Adders can build an alliance or if the fights will break out anew to find the one and only ilClan.
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But if there is only one Clan left? Who will they fight to train their warriors?
Meanwhile I believe the Home Clans need a multiplicity of different Clans and they even more need a new concept of social and martial coexistence.
The Clans do need conflict to improve, but in the past these inner conflicts went out of control and made the Clans vulnerable to threats from outside.
Good example you can see in Operation Bulldog, due political narrow-mindedness and due being caught in old rivalries the Inner sphere could play the Clans like a virtuoso fiddler.
Or the conflict on Wayside V / Wild Cat where both Smoke Jaguars and Nova Cats rather fought each other than an Inner Sphere adversery.
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Does anyone have a solid list of Star Adder mech production prior to WoR? I am specifically interested in what omni's we build (I know the obvious Adder and Blood Asp).
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Especially in the WoR i got the impression that production sides are changing ownership very often.
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Here is a post-WoR list:
Arcadia (CSA-100%)
Grendel - Arcadia BattleMech Plant CM-T15
Grizzly (closed) - (unknown plant)
Hellfire - Arcadia BattleMech Plant CM-T4
Highlander IIC - Arcadia BattleMech Plant CM-T15
Mist Lynx - Arcadia BattleMech Plant CM-O3
Naga - Manufacturing Plant WA3
Dadga (CSA-100%)
Glass Spider 3 - Dagda Industriplex Zeta
Undine - (unknown plant)
Wyvern IIC - Manzikert Fabrication & Assembly Plant Gamma
Gatekeeper (CSA-100%)
(none known)
Grants Station (CSA-100%)
(none known )
Haven
2 ProtoMech Factories - (CSA took facility when CBS was annihilated)
3 BattleMech Factories - (CSA took facility when CBS was annihilated)
Hoard (CSA-100%)
naval yard - (still under construction, based on ex CSV Leviathan Prime naval yard)
Battle Armor factory on continent Tolan (FM: CC, page 127)
Huntress (CCC-50%, CCY-10%, CSA-30%, CSL-10%)
Dire Wolf - Phan Industrialplex (factory razed by 2ndSL)
Ebon Jaguar - Huntress Manufacturing Plant DL-6
Horned Owl 4 & 5 - Abysmal Manufacturing Complex
Miraborg dropship - Huntress Yards
Mist Lynx - Huntress Production Facility Epsilon
Sabutai - Lootera Spaceworks
Warhawk - Abysmal Manufacturing Complex (CGS last known holder)
Warhawk - Phan Industrialplex (CFM last known holder)
former CSJ Proto factories
Londerholm (CCC-20%, CCY-45%, CSA-10%, CSL-25%)
Sabutai - (unknown plant, CIH factory seized by CCY, WoR pg 53)
(unknown unit) - Beta Industriplex (CCY took from CIH post CSJ annh, 9th Striker Cluster, Pg 50 FMWC)
Sheridan (CSA-100%)
Adder - Sheridan LM-TA 8, 9, 10
Blood Asp - Sheridan LM-TA 8, 9, 10
Corona - (unknown plant)
Strana Mechty (CCC-25%, CCY-25%, CSA-25%, CSL-25%)
Cephalus - Kerensky Memorial Manufacturing (CCY held, former Woodsman factory)
Dire Wolf - Wolf Clan Site #1
Dragonfly - Upsilon Plant 2J (CIH last known holder)
Elemental - (unknown plant)
Jengiz - Bear’s Den
Kingfisher - Strana Mechty Mech Production Facility Beta
Osteon - Kerensky Memorial Manufacturing (in CCY territory, former Woodsman factory)
Linebacker - Wolf Clan Site 2
Septicemia - Kerensky Memorial Manufacturing (CCY held)
Timber Wolf - Wolf Clan Site #2
Strato Domingo (CCY-10%, CSA-60%, CSL-30%)
Thresher - Manufacturing Plant DSF-51
Tamaron (CCC-25%, CCY-50%, CSA-25%)
Procyon - Clan Coyote Beta Plant 3F
Savage Coyote - Landen Mech Production Facility (per FM:U pg 56)
Septicemia - (unknown plant, previously hidden, WoR pg 153)
Tathis (CSA-100%)
(none known)
Planets lost/abandoned:
Albion:
Burrock Battlemech - Albion Armor Works Gamma (CSA)
Marauder IIC 2+3 - Albion MMA Complex(CSA)
Turk Omnifighter - Complex 19 (CSA)
Circe
Great Wyrm - Cudahy Assembly Plant Delta
Locust IIC 2+3 - no specific facility mentioned
Eden
Hellbringer - no specific facility mentioned
Jagatai Omnifighter - Eden,Wolf Armor Work
Phantom - W-5 Facilities
Ironhold
Black Lanner - Ironhold Alpha Complex (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Fire Falcon - Ironhold Alpha Complex (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Kit Fox - Ironhold Plant 9 (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Night Gyr - Ironhold Gamma Complex (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Scytha Omnifighter - Complex VI (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Summoner - Eagle Craft Group (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Turkina - Ironhold Beta Complex (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Visigoth Omnifighter - Complex 9 (->CSV, maybe among the isorla when CSV was defeated)
Lum
Arcadia dropship - no specific facility mentioned
Bashkir Omnifighter - Crest Foundries
Carrier dropship - Rumiko Yards
Kit Fox - Production Line Gamma 2
Marshall
Broadsword dropship - Marshall Yards
Commando IIC - Marshall Light Assembly Station
New Kent
Battle Cobra - Novy Minsky Armaments Plant
Batu Omnifighter - Mercer Foundries
Crossbow - Novy Minsky Armaments Plant
Matador - Novy Minsky Armaments Plant
Scylla - Novy Minsky Armaments Plant
Tyre 1+2 Aerospace fighter - New Kent Orbiter D7
Paxon
Dire Wolf - non specific mentioned (claimed by CSA, WoR, page 83)
Gorgon - non specific mentioned (claimed by CSA, WoR, page 83)
Priori
Piranha, Constantin Assembly Plant M27A-E(CSA)
Sulla Omni Fighter - Forge 7(CSA)
Tranquil
Adder - W-7 Facilities
Ice Ferret - W-7 Facilities
Lobo - W-7 Facilities
Vinton
Grendel - no specific facility mentioned (WoR, page 130)
Mad Cat Mk II - no specific facility mentioned (WoR, page 130)
Piranha - no specific facility mentioned (WoR, page 130)
York
Bloodkite 1+2 - York BattleMech Y3 Facility
Cecerops 1+2+3 - Reserve Industriplex-2
Chrysaor 2 - Reserve Industriplex-2
Crimson Langur - York Y2 Facility
Morrigu 1+2 - York Vehicle Y2 Facility
Shamash - York Vehicle Y2 Facility
Stooping Hawk - York OmniMech Y1 Facility
Designs without specified production facalities mentioned:
Mechs
Hellbringer (CHH made, every Clan has a factory or access to the design)
Hunchback IIC (all Clans use)
Hunchback IIC 2 (CSA make/use lots)
Hunchback IIC 3 (CCY make/use lots)
Mad Dog (CSJ made, made by virtually all Clans, favored by CHH)
Stormcrow (CSR made, factories throughout the homeworlds)
Vehicles
Anhur Transport (all Clans use, CSA & CHH use in combat units)
Ares Medium Tank (all Clans use, CCY use most)
Asshur Artillery Spotter (all Clans use)
Donar Assault Helicopter (all Clans use)
Hachiman Fire Support Tank (CHH & CSA use in front-line roles)
Huitzilopochtli
Indra Infantry Transport (all Clans use)
Ishtar Heavy Fire Support Tank (CHH & CSA primarily make & use, though all have some)
Odin Scout Tank (all Clans use)
Oro Heavy Tank (all Clans use)
Ku Wheeled Assault Tank
Mars Assault Tank (CHH use heavily)
Mithras Light Tank (all Clans use)
Svantovit 1 & 2 (all Clans use)
Zorya Light Tank (all Clans use, CCC use most)
Aerospace
Amon Aerospace fighter
Avar Omni Fighter
Chaeronea 1, 2 ,& 3 Aerospace fighter
Confederate dropship
Hydaspes 1 & 2 Aerospace fighter
Issus 1, 2, & 3 Aerospace fighter
Kirghiz Omni Fighter
Lion dropship
Mercer dropship
Outpost dropship
Overlord C dropship
Sassanid dropship
Union C dropship
Vandal Omni Fighter
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Here is a post-WoR list:
This is the list of known pre-WoR factories on our post-WoR possessions. Isn't it ?
I doubt we have a confirmation all of them are still operating.
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I doubt that we will ever get a canon affirmation.
Some of the listed we are told about in WoR sourcebook.
Take that list as "Maybe"
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Gaiten thanks for the list. I had some of that but nowhere near all.
But did you ever notice even pre WoR the Adders don't have any heavy omni production specifically listed? When we are supposed to field a primarily heavy omni font line force.
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Well I think considering our RAT we have not constructed any heavy OmniMech design so far, but we do both trade for (as to the Timberwolf) and produce many in facilities not specifically mentioned so far (as to Stormcrow and Ebon Jaguar).
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Well, I'm bringing our thread back to front after the supplemental.
3085 RAT's mean my 2nd line star for the 383rd from Mu can now be chosen
Here it is:
Marauder IIC 2 Custom (Heavy larges switched for PPC's and ER large switched for Heavy Large with a few other tweaks)
Blood Kite
Grizzly
Guillotine IIC
Glass Spider 3.
Pretty much designed to be a somewhat mobile hard hitting defensive unit.
Thought?
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IMHO the Glass Spider 3 does not fit, maybe using a Phoenix Hawk IIC 5 istead of?
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Not a big fan of the 5 since it can't last very long without ammo. I like the 3 and I would prefer all the mechs jump.
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If you want them all to jump there's always the Black Python or the Blood Asp (A or E), both mechs are on the second-line section of the table.
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If you want them all to jump there's always the Black Python or the Blood Asp (A or E), both mechs are on the second-line section of the table.
Just when I thought I would have an Adder force without a Blood Asp A in it you go and say that. It is definitively my favorite mech and my Mad IIC is customed out to be a sort of baby Asp A. I'm going to resist the urge and consider the Python. I was really hoping one of the new Scylla variants would show up in the homeworlds to fill that last spot. Considering the Adders now like big mobile mechs with lots of guns the Scylla makes sense.
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No idea of the newest RAT, but an old style Stone Rhino or Supernova will always fit in the category heavy jumper with many guns.
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Just when I thought I would have an Adder force without a Blood Asp A in it you go and say that. It is definitively my favorite mech and my Mad IIC is customed out to be a sort of baby Asp A. I'm going to resist the urge and consider the Python. I was really hoping one of the new Scylla variants would show up in the homeworlds to fill that last spot. Considering the Adders now like big mobile mechs with lots of guns the Scylla makes sense.
Haha, sorry about the Asp, didn't realize the temptation it would cause. Unfortunately, I didn't have the new 3067 variants available to me for the 3085 tables (someone else handled the 3072 tables). While the Scylla might be a good fit, being a Viper design, the factory on New Kent, and the Adders making plenty of their more popular models themselves, it's not likely. Although there is plenty of room to squeeze in a salvaged one.
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No idea of the newest RAT, but an old style Stone Rhino or Supernova will always fit in the category heavy jumper with many guns.
Neither appear on the Adder RAT in 3085. I already have an unpainted Stone Rhino but it's going t be a lion mech.
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New member of the clan here. Recently started in on Battletech (I'll probably never find anyone near who plays though) and upon looking more into the background, I've taken a liking to the Star Adders. Now to just apply some paint to the three Clan 'Mechs I own.
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Wow... thats one new Adder per year for two straight years on this forum! Welcome to the dominant power in the deep periphery!
P.S. I was last years ;)
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Generallly, a new generation among the Clans is considered every 5 years. ;)
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Neither appear on the Adder RAT in 3085. I already have an unpainted Stone Rhino but it's going t be a lion mech.
But you know no RAT is complete. ;)
Old publications indicate the Adders field some of them. So it is possible one survived the WoR.
In the end it is up to you how adderish your unit should be.
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But you know no RAT is complete. ;)
Old publications indicate the Adders field some of them. So it is possible one survived the WoR.
In the end it is up to you how adderish your unit should be.
Correct, plus with all the inter-Clan fighting in the WoR there is a much greater likelihood for salvage outside of the normal Clan production lines.
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Yup I'm convinced. I need a reason to own a Scylla anyway.
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While discussing the strenght of our Adders in time of Operation Revival we come to the interesting question whether the Adders tend to have all their secondline galaxies filled with 5 clusters or not. I tried to calculate their initial numbers based on the write-up of each galaxy - especially for the newly formed Tau and Upsilon. We only have the entries in FM: CC as base for any calculation. While there is no exact number given in the write-up of the galaxies we have some hints here and there to speculate. Now there are breaks in the write-ups especially for the creation of Tau and Upsilon Galaxy for the Absorption war that i can't clarify. And while their was some discussion i think the follow-up is better placed here.
What we know so far ...
Tau and Upsilon were created by stripping the best clusters from most of the provisional galaxies and formed two additional galaxies around them (p.119). So we knew not all secondline galaxies have provided any cluster and it sounds as if there were additional troops (likely fresh from the sibkos) to fill the ranks. We do not know from that passage how many clusters were transferred and how many clusters the two galaxies field.
Kappa has four clusters listed from the time before. No hint of any cluster transferred to either Tau or Upsilon.
Mu is very clear. They had to transfer one cluster each to Tau and Upsilon, three clusters left what gives them a strenght of 5 clusters normally.
Xi is also very clear as they always had only three clusters and no cluster is mentioned to side with Tau or Upsilon.
Omicron spend 2 clusters to the new galaxies, but doesn't state how they were assigned.
Rho is a miracle by itself. The write-up indicates that it was already recommissioned in time the Absorption war starts, the description of the galaxy commander indicates Rho was formed after the Absorption. No cluster description helps - beside the fact that the 714th Sentinals exists since 2 years already. I would assume this cluster was also assigned to a galaxy in time of the Absorption, but it isn't clear to which galaxy.
Sigma has definitely transferred the 471st Sentinels to Upsilon and it was the only cluster who survided within Upsilon. It also indicated that the 377th they lost was also transferred to Upsilon.
At least we have Tau. Their original four clusters coming from different galaxies each ! We know the 286th coming from Mu and the 899th coming from Omicron. We do not know from which the 343rd were coming nor do we know which cluster was lost.
When i counted the transferred clusters the first time last week and tried to fill two galaxies i haven't considered the cluster write-ups in detail. So i only saw five clusters transferred and Tau having already four, which let me think Upsilon would come in trouble to fill the ranks. But reading the cluster description carefully i got a new picture.
Original galaxy -> Tau and Upsilon
Kappa -> ??? and ???
Mu -> 1 and 1
Xi -> 0 and 0
Omicron -> 1 and 1 (2 in total and as we already know the 899th for Tau and Tau had only one cluster from each galaxy, the second must go to Upsilon)
Rho -> ??? and ???
Sigma -> 0 and 2
That gives Upsilon 4 confirmed clusters and Tau only 2 confirmed, but 2 still undefined.
Mu, Xi, Omicron and Sigma can be excluded as additional sources. In case we do not count Rho as already created, there is only Kappa left to give any cluster (as frontline galaxies are already excluded as potential sources).
This confirmed the 5th cluster for Kappa, but still left one cluster without source.
Does anyone of my fellow Adders have any idea how to unravel that mystery ?
Personally i would go for Rho as a galaxy already in creation but not yet activated.
Any other ideas ?
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Most of the lesser Homeworld clans at the time of Revival are not very well fleshed out. The Adders got a little more because of the Absorption but not enough.
Try and ask the writers/lead developers thread and see if they can give a better explanation.
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Ok my Adder sibkin. WoR:S says the Adder warriors now prefer faster heavily armed heavies and assaults with lots of guns to quickly finish off opponents.
What omni configs do you think we will be sporting most often?
Warhawk Prime and Blood Asp A are first to my mind. Mobile assaults that head cap stuff to death or at least take off large pieces. Nova Cat Prime and A. Cauldron Born A as well (and the prime if someone would get rid of the autocannon for an ERPPC).
What else stands out you fellas?
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I think Cauldron Born H has Star Adder written all over it!
Kingfisher C and H.
Timber Wolf Prime, A, E, F and H.
Blood Asp F and G.
Mad Dog H. The crazy Mad Dog E with HAG-30s fits the "fast and kill stuff quick" motif but it's such an impractical design I doubt it's all that common outside single duels.
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I hope you don't mind my two cents. I'd note that Nova Cats aren't fast. They and the Night Gyr actually represent a trend of returning to the classic 4/6 heavy paradigm that's been continued with the Flamberge, the Clan Omni counterpart to designs like the Dragon Fire or the Perseus which use an XLFE for guns and armor rather than speed the way the Timber Wolf or the Falconer do. Not that I dislike the 'Mech, mind you.
For me, the Ebon Jaguar has always been one of those 'Mechs where someone managed to make a really good chassis and then give it configurations that usually proceed to shoot it in the foot, reload, and take aim at the other foot. The A seems decent if you can get the Ultra into position, although I might lean toward the LB 20-X. The preponderance of anti-infantry weapons is strictly unnecessary - if one flamer won't do it, use a second one. If two won't, quit trying to fight Salamanders at point-blank range.
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Please dont get me started on the Ebon Jag. I'm an old school Jaguar fan and it was love at first site when I bought 3058. Then when you try to play it... so much wasted potential.
I made a custom config called the little monster back in the day. It was based on the A and kept the ultra and ER Larges but changed around some of the secondaries to make it much more effective against other big stompy things. I need to bash my extra mini i have laying around.
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Some Light omnimechs. The Adder Light mechs are now said to favour firepower above all.
Adder Prime, E and H
Hellion B and C
Most Kit Foxes are rather heavily armed but the Kit Fox A, F, H and W stand out.
Mist Lynx C and P. The F also, though probably minus the Light TAG.
Arctic Cheetah C and H
Fire Moth D and H (going extinct though)
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I'm finding paired HLLs and paired PPCs on a mobile heavy to be quite fun. Yeah you can only fire two at a time without melting the pilot but rushing in firing PPCs until you get close and then bouncing on JJs firing the heavies or just running fast blasting away is fun (practical application of Gargoyle finally acquired). And now it seems to have some support.in cannon.
5/8/5 mobility with that kind of firepower seems to be exactly what the Adders ordered.
Yes i know its big gun overkill but it.is in the spirit of the new doctrine.
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I'm finding paired HLLs and paired PPCs on a mobile heavy to be quite fun. Yeah you can only fire two at a time without melting the pilot but rushing in firing PPCs until you get close and then bouncing on JJs firing the heavies or just running fast blasting away is fun (practical application of Gargoyle finally acquired). And now it seems to have some support.in cannon.
5/8/5 mobility with that kind of firepower seems to be exactly what the Adders ordered.
Yes i know its big gun overkill but it.is in the spirit of the new doctrine.
Is it really that new of a doctrine? Look at the Blood Asp. Then looking at the RATs in FM:U, you see the Asp, Kingfisher, Gargoyle, Warhawk on the assault tables. With the exception of the Night Gyr in one slot and the Nova Cat in another, the rest of the heavies are all 5/8.
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I was more referring to the lots of big guns thing. The Adders tendacy to mobile heavies and assaults and up-gunned lights and mediums seems to exist historically. I don't recall a specific mention of the lots of big guns thing. Most canon configs have smaller secondary weapons and I was thinking along the lines of removing those for HLLs or ERLLs and the like.
Bascially trading out sandasting for head capping across the board to quickly beat opponents( which in game mechanics only works on theory).
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I would take RATs with a pinch of salt. Inclusive rather than exclusive. They aren't wrong, they're just not the full picture. For example, just look at the Hellion RAT, not a single Incubus 5 on it and that's their own Clan's design.
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Right but one can draw a hell of hint from almost all the front line assaults being 4/6 ans almost all the heavies at 5/8. The only deviations are the Nova Cat/Night Gyr which are pocket assaults anyway and the Dire Wolf which doesn't really need to be mobile.
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Jeez, actually had to use the search engine to find this thread. Are the Adders still kickin' or already long gone? :P
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The Adders wait in the void ... watching the other spoiled children wasting their energy, people and resources ... till they will strike.
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Jeez, actually had to use the search engine to find this thread. Are the Adders still kickin' or already long gone? :P
Sssssshhh! Be very quiet they don't know where we are. We're building Lev Primes and lots of nasty new omnis to unleash very soon.
But for now we are hiding in the deep laughing at the Sphere since we turned off all the phones. As soon as we find C*s new hidden army we will be ready to roll.
...or something like that ::)
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A thought for the Star Adders.
Especially since the Burrock Absorption, the Star Adders have had a lot of bloodnames under their thumb. The Wars of Reaving didn't really seem to hurt them too much in that regard. In fact, since then, they've picked up about 10 Fire Mandrill Bloodnames (source: Wars of Reaving Supplemental), including Carrol, Faraday and Kreese.
Does anyone else feel like the Star Adders are in danger of having more bloodnamed than Clan society technically allows? The long-toted max is 1,000 bloodnamed warriors per Clan. Obviously they aren't there right now, but in 10, 20, 50 years? Lots of bloodheritages to be fought over via Trial of Bloodright, and the Clans as a whole would be reluctant to lower the blood count I think, with so many bloodnames and genetic legacies gone.
I suppose its possible they could overturn that rule in a Grand Council vote.
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Good thing the thread has been bumped back up, I've been considering re-painting my 2 stars of mechs as star Adders
I just worry since I have the worst luck with Clans - when I started I picked Smoke Jaguars and now they're gone. So I switched to Steel Vipers since I'd read the Star Lord novel and Dawn seemed really cool and now they've been reaved
I don't want anything to happen to the Adders they're one of the few cool Clans left
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Eh, I started as a Jag fan. The Adders use a lot of the same types of gear but actually fight smart. Smarter than most clans.
As for the blood heritages... they also have several Viper names. But who says they need to use them? What's to keep other clans from wanting them in a couple generations. The way the genetic legacies are jacked up they may be a hot commodity. Just another ace up our sleeve for that long game.
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I don't want anything to happen to the Adders they're one of the few cool Clans left
Well, I guess something big is about to happen to the Adders once the Dark Age plotline continues (approx. in 10 or 30 years I guess). We're either in for a big party or a huge fall. But even if we falter and eventually fall, I'm pretty sure that we'll go down in style.
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Well, I guess something big is about to happen to the Adders once the Dark Age plotline continues (approx. in 10 or 30 years I guess). We're either in for a big party or a huge fall. But even if we falter and eventually fall, I'm pretty sure that we'll go down in style.
The way CGL does things being the big dog usually means your in for a crotch kick or twenty. They do seem to equally distribute said crotch kicks though. I still think we'll see more gains first.
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IMHO we have to consider not only the Adders but the other Home Clans too.
Given WoR Supplemental the Adders have been very careful to integrate the other Clans in their plans (as to the invasion of the Hanseatic League).
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IMHO we have to consider not only the Adders but the other Home Clans too.
Given WoR Supplemental the Adders have been very careful to integrate the other Clans in their plans (as to the invasion of the Hanseatic League).
The Adders interpretation of Kerenskys vision has always been fluffed as the clans uniting to retake Terra(now we know they just need to be leading that movement). The pragmatic Snakes may want a combined homeworld invasion of the Hansa to prove out whether the clans can work together and show the other clans what can be done.
They need a Klondike like event where they work together to help with clan unity. I think we will see that. Then see them learning to convert Hansa citizens to clan life for a couple generations as preparation to holding IS planets. Finally somewhere around the 3180's I think we'll be back in the Sphere and I almost think you may see the grand council offer up a spot to an IS clan or two (non-Mongol Horses would be good).
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Hello Everyone, new Star Adder here.
To be fair to the Homeworld Clans, they ALL received a major beating as of the WoR. The fact that Star Adders came out "on top" doesn't represent the damage they also suffered.
As for meeting up with the IS clans, I am fairly confident that without the Steel Vipers, the whole "You are tainted" hard-line will soften once any invasion actually begins. They just needed to be extremely firm during the rebuilding phase lest seeds of the taint show up.
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To be fair to the Homeworld Clans, they ALL received a major beating as of the WoR. The fact that Star Adders came out "on top" doesn't represent the damage they also suffered.
It seemed to me from WoR that while on paper they kept nearly all their units, many were hugely understrength. I think the Adders must have lost at least a third of their Touman.
As for meeting up with the IS clans, I am fairly confident that without the Steel Vipers, the whole "You are tainted" hard-line will soften once any invasion actually begins. They just needed to be extremely firm during the rebuilding phase lest seeds of the taint show up.
Hmm. In the long run, I think the 'taint' concept would fade after an invasion, just like all the IS Clans changed over time. I wouldn't expect it to happen quickly though. After all, the Aggressor faction was born among the Adders well after the Vipers had been Annihilated.
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Yeah about a third but with all the holdings, manufacturing, and legacies they now posses it will not take long to fill out those units. And rebuild old ones... can we get a new 5th Assault please? :'(
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It seemed to me from WoR that while on paper they kept nearly all their units, many were hugely understrength. I think the Adders must have lost at least a third of their Touman.
More than 50% fits better.
They need a Klondike like event where they work together to help with clan unity. I think we will see that.
Given that due how Klondike was being executed most of the Clans internal quarrels have begun, I would rather see a more different, really uniting operation of the Adders and other HomeClans.
Besides the units of each Clan I would like to see a real battle unit comprised of members of Clans.
Somewhat like an *Ebon Keshik* Guards cluster (or even galaxy). So a new common identity could being instilled.
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The remaining homeworld clans are all known for different specialities. So a combined arms were every clan can fill a different role is most likely. At least this would be the best scenario i can see.
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The remaining homeworld clans are all known for different specialities. So a combined arms were every clan can fill a different role is most likely. At least this would be the best scenario i can see.
Wait what are the Adder specialties? Other than lots of big mechs that move well and lots of little mechs with lots of big guns that don't move so well.
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Strategy and leadership ? ;)
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Wait what are the Adder specialties?
Traditionally, heavier mech forces than average. Their forces are hard-hitting and resilient, if plodding. Former Burrock formations used Burrock-like quick strike tactics with lighter machines but I don't know how far that has spread in today's Clan Star Adder; the ex-Burrock warriors were always a minority and the Adders had some trouble integrating their tactical styles anyway.
The Adders also tend to be more cautious and thorough than most other Clans. Intel, logistics, careful planning, sensible bidding - all the kind of stuff that would make the typical Smoke Jaguar's eyes glaze over.
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Strategy and leadership ? ;)
Yeah I assumed you meant one of the faction A uses equipment X stereotypes we normally get. But yes I like that the Adders are the clan that uses their touman like an actual military.
The comparison to tbe Jags is funny because they really do use the same kinds of equipment but the Adders actually plan well before hand.
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Nevertheless, I would like the Adders have such a military R & D as the Jaguars had.
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Yeah I assumed you meant one of the faction A uses equipment X stereotypes we normally get. But yes I like that the Adders are the clan that uses their touman like an actual military.
When i look to the remaining homeworld clans i see
Cloud Cobras - having excellent ASF pilots and a good Protomech arm, but aditionally lacking heavy ground forces
Coyote - tendency to heavy and assault mechs, but lacking naval power incl. ASF
Stone Lion - continuing a tradition for tanks, BAs and combined arms, but missing naval power and mechs.
Star Adder - beside having the largest fleet and ground force, focusing on heavy mechs, but don't prefer ASF and BAs in a way other clans do.
So i see the Adders as Generals of a combined army (very SLDF like) with the mech forces build up by Coyote and Adders, the ASF by the Cobras and the tanks and infantry by Lions and in case of Protos also Cobras. Naval escort is given by the Adders, too.
Such a force of specialists working together would be very impressive for any after-Jihas-IS-force. But I don't believe the clans will ever work together that way. :(
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But I don't believe the clans will ever work together that way. :(
You must think positively :)
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Just had a thought while slacking at work. You can fit 2 heavy larges and 2 ERPPCs on a Gargoyle with some room to spare.
Time to make an Adder'd out config. It's a bracket baby but standing off with dual ppcs or moving 8 and closing with HLL's is well, sounding like fun.
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Hm, I dunno. What's the point of using HLL when you have ER PPCs at your disposal?
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Three reasons:
1. Fluff for a Star Adder 'mech.
2. Heavy large lasers are a real man's weapon. :D
3. Under kill is overrated.
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Hm, I dunno. What's the point of using HLL when you have ER PPCs at your disposal?
Cuz I am Star Adder, thus I should
Cuz it fits on the chasis, thus I can
Cuz its ridiculous overkill, thus I must
You could ask the same about the Blood Asp A which is a monster
Pratically the Gargoyle A makes the most sense. Or a custom with a PPC and streak 6 in each arm.
I am a big fan of paired PPCs and Streak 6s because they flat out work well but this just seemed so over the top Adder that it had to be done.
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Yeah, I know, I'm supposed to like em. But when you already have ER PPCs as big hole punchers, I just don't see the point of adding two more hole punchers with even more heat and lower range. Rather take something to fill those big holes (ok, my choice of words seems rather ambigous at this point #P) those PPCs punched into someone's armor.
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Heavy lasers really aren't that great in a world of no minimum range. But they are fun. The clan ERPPC is a thing of beauty, its low drag high speed surgical killing power. The heavy large laser is more like a big rock; you smash stuff with it. It ain't accurate, it ain't sexy, and it certainly is not the best choice. But when you have a pair of them... its pure HULK SMASH all day long.
I just have visions of other clan warriors seeing the two HLLs in the other arm of a Gargoyle charging and blasting at them with twin PPC's already. And thinking "Was that weapons load really necessary? What was that guy thin... yikes he's getting close. REVERSE!!!" }:)
(Just realized I have a Warhawk H arm and Gargoyle A PPC arm and an extra Gargoyle mini not assembled) ^-^
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The way an Adder lead invasion would work would have invasion corridors like before, but each Clan would be charged with specific goals in the subjugation of the IS. Only once they reach the area that would be just outside the 3130 Prefecture X of the republic would they then open it up to being a crazy "race for Terra". That way, the coreward IS would largely be pacified without absurd rivalries setting people back while still maintaining the independence of each clan. That said, the Adders didn't even get an invasion slot, let alone leadership of revival, so who knows what it would be like in 3150 if it happens.
Not sure how an invasion of the HW clans would work since they would just never have the numbers. They'd probably path in through the Draconis Combine and cherry pick key worlds?
As for the whole heavy lasers thing, as of 3058 they were just a prototype for a revitalized weapons program. They whole overkill thing made their feel very appealing to the hardliner crusaders that existed in the large but invasion-less Adders. Overall, I think the amount of HLLs in the total Clan Toumans are exaggerated. The ER PPC is definitely the favored weapon of the Clans.
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Speaking of which... do we actually have manufacturing sites that are known to produce improved Large lasers?
I mean, even the dezgra Inner Sphere Jade Falcons produce their own now. I guess it would have spread to us as well?
And while we're at it: +1 on your dice or gauss like exploding weapon - what do you prefer?
Personally, I would go iLL ovber LL any day.
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Speaking of which... do we actually have manufacturing sites that are known to produce improved Large lasers?
I mean, even the dezgra Inner Sphere Jade Falcons produce their own now. I guess it would have spread to us as well?
And while we're at it: +1 on your dice or gauss like exploding weapon - what do you prefer?
Personally, I would go iLL ovber LL any day.
I assume after 3085 all heavy lasers and ATMs are tbe improved versions until CGL tells me otherwise.
I would rather the risk than the penalty. Suddenly all those heavy laser + tarcomp configs of omnimechs become extra lethal. Or you can drop the tarcomp. i.e. Blood Asp A improve the heavies and it is even meaner or drop the tarcomp for more sinks and its better still.
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And while we're at it: +1 on your dice or gauss like exploding weapon - what do you prefer?
This has not stopped anyone from using gauss weapons nor has it stopped people from using, say, ammo. ;) a small weapon pop is hardly as bad as getting your machine gun ammo hit and you take 100 damage in one location.
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I was looking back to the info in WoR:S regarding the 3088 Star Adder campaign in Hansa space, after going over the data on the League shown in Objectives: Periphery and Field Report: Periphery; and it occurred to me that the kind of slash-and-burn attitude which the Clan has towards the Inner Sphere (and the Council of Six Clans) post-Reaving may not be quite so evident when dealing with the Deep Periphery.
For example, it's noted that the RDF made two separate (failed) attempts to counter-attack the Adder occupation forces involved. But given the kind of naval forces the Adder fleet has to hand, would it simply be a case of the Clan keeping the Hansa JumpShips at bay (or blowing up any that get too close to one of the target worlds), or were the Adders actually allowing the RDF to land their troops first?
Given how widespread the standard RDF deployments would have been prior to the incursion (with the closest RDF garrison more than two jumps away from any of the four target systems), is it likely that the Adders are actually letting the Hansa ground forces try and fight; if only to give their own surface assets some live-fire combat experience? If so, it would seem that, be it out of principle or pragmatism, the Adders as of 3090 are still willing to treat the Hansa less harshly than they would other non-Clan opponents by this time.
Actually, in the long run, I wonder if their picking only four worlds to go for at a time was part of the point. Maybe they aren't in any particular hurry to conquer the Hansa outright; it could be that they recognise the need to burn off some of their warriors' more aggressive tendencies, without risking the increased exposure of a premature assault against the Inner Sphere or near Periphery.
To take an example from pre-Columbian Mesoamerica, the Aztec Empire had at least one enemy city (Tlaxcala) which they made a point not to conquer outright; instead, by leaving it unoccupied, they could raid it for captives (and would-be sacrifices) on a regular basis, blooding each new generation of warriors in the process. (There were other enemies, like the Tarascans, who were large enough to block Aztec expansion in their own right; but the Tlaxcalans had no such ability.) Of course, when a group of Spaniards managed to recruit the disgruntled Tlaxcalans to their own cause, things didn't work out quite so well for the Aztecs.
But in the sense that keeping at least a portion of the League alive (as a live-fire "training opponent") might be a way to help keep future Adder generations experienced against "Inner Sphere" tactics, would it be something that the Adders might just consider doing; or would the pressure in the Council from the other three Homeworld Clans mean that keeping at least part of the Hansa alive, even for such a purpose, would be politically unfeasible?
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Yeah pretty much. Remember the Inner Sphere is tainted. The deep periphery is not. The Hansa has some world worth taking so eventually the Adders are going to swallow it. I hope the nex time we see the homeclans they have swallowed a quarter of the periphery map.
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Or they could be treating the Hansa as a training ground to blood troops against someone other than Clan troops. Now where have I seen the Adders doing that before...
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Or they could be treating the Hansa as a training ground to blood troops against someone other than Clan troops. Now where have I seen the Adders doing that before...
Yup. Only problem is the Hansa ground forces are kind of weak.
There is not really a better option to blood troops at the moment though.
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Or they could be treating the Hansa as a training ground to blood troops against someone other than Clan troops. Now where have I seen the Adders doing that before...
Though the Hansa will probably indeed be absorbed occupied and not outright annihilated. ;)
I'm wondering in how far the Adders will let the other Clans participate in their ventures in Hansa space. I guess the Adders will use the Scorpions as the fall guy to unite the Clans at a later point (similar to Klondike in a way).
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Though the Hansa will probably indeed be absorbed occupied and not outright annihilated. ;)
I'm wondering in how far the Adders will let the other Clans participate in their ventures in Hansa space. I guess the Adders will use the Scorpions as the fall guy to unite the Clans at a later point (similar to Klondike in a way).
Another consideration. Think about how long it took for the Cobras/Burrocks to assimilate the Tanite worlds-- a process that still wasn't complete as of the WoR. The IS clans had to largely abandon the clan way for the lower castes on the worlds they took-- which lead eventually to the Taint.
Maybe the Adders are taking it slow. Grab a few worlds, garrison them heavily, assimilate them to the Clan Way. Don't spread out too thin, watch for a reaction. When they're fully digested, grab a few more worlds. The Hansa have no allies, their military isn't a match for even a single Clan, let alone the Adders. They can only helplessly watch and wait as the coils tighten and their empire is slowly, methodically consumed.
The Kerensky cluster is a collection of marginal-to-awful planets in the rear end of nowhere. Post-reaving, they're now afflicted with plague and radiation to boot. The invading clans were plagued by poor supply lines in the deep periphery, and administrating an OZ 1200 LY from their main population centers didn't work for any of the invading clans in the end.
Taking the Hansa more than doubles your resources, moves your center of gravity towards the IS, and secures your logistical lines. What's not to love? Meanwhile the Scorpions do the heavy lifting in Nueva Castille; once they're done the Adders can always move in and supplant them later to finish the job.
There's an old story of Napoleon and one of his lieutenants strolling down an eastward road out of Paris. Napoleon ordered him to plant trees along the road so his troops could march in the shade. "But sir," the young officer protested, "the trees won't be tall enough to shade anyone for twenty years or more."
To which Napoleon replied, "Which is why we need to plant them immediately."
There's something very Star Adder about this sentiment.
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From what I gather about the Scorpions, they won't be a pushover for one Clan to take alone. Its only their relatiosn with the Umayyads that is really causing them problems. Solve that and the Scorps will be able to fend off any single or even two Clans. They would be in a better situation if they could fix their warships but even without them the Escorpio Imperio will be a very tough nut to crack..
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How do you work that out, SL? ISP3, if it is to believed, paints a picture of a realm walking a razor's edge against open rebellion, as does the Wars of Reaving Supplement.
The tenuous Castillian/Umayyad alliance had already broken down on at least one world by the time the Scorpions invaded. Still no love lost between those two, even with the Scorpions telling them to play nice.
Reassigning most of the natives to the Labor Caste is said to have engendered much resentment. No one faction in the Imperio appears to be trusting of the other two. The Umayyads, who make/made up a large percentage of the population, are especially poorly-regarded after the Coyote raid in 3088. The GM's section of ISP3 mentions that agents from the Hansa, three of the four Homeworld Clans, and corporate IS concerns are beginning to permeate the region.
To say nothing of what happens if the Scorpions actually find traces of Not-Named heritage in the Umayyads? The Coyotes are sad to have "severely disrupted" the existing balance with just the insinuation of Not-Named blood in the Umayyads.
I know not what Objectives: Clans said about the state of the Imperio's industries, but the new facility in ISP3 is rumored to be at least two years behind schedule thanks to lower-caste saboteurs, with every disruption resulting in violent clamp-downs. Further whispers suggest the Scorpions didn't bring much to work with from their former holdings.
The Imperio Touman as of 3085 boasts one Cluster above 60% strength, and only the Castillian/Umayyad Galaxy is close to full strength. The RATs in the back of ISP3 are, frankly, a mess. You need Keshik-level modifiers to even have a shot at landing most of the Clan OmniMechs on those tables. "RATs not being totally representative yadda-yadda," but it points to a certain shortage of front-line Clan equipment. Clan Warriors in IS equipment will be no push-overs this is true, but they won't be able to match Clan Warriors in Clan equipment, especially not if that Clan equipment is renewable back in the Homeworlds.
If the Clans (or even just one Clan) do hit in force, I would expect the Imperio to collapse in fairly short order. They're barely keeping general uprising at bay while at peace, what will happen when invaders mightier than even the Scorpions come? Don't get me wrong, the Imperio is an interesting-enough faction and one I hope doesn't do as poorly as I think it will, but what we're reading as of 3090 seems to indicate impending disaster. They won't be easily subjugated, but they shouldn't pose a great challenge to defeat in battle. The one saving grace may be Clan Star Adder appearing to focus it's efforts solely on the Hansa, leaving the "lesser" Clans (if you will) to tackle the Scorpions. Though the Cobras pursued the Scorpion Abjuration with considerable zeal...
YMMV.
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I think the conquest of both Imperio and Hanse might be a great (serious) manoeuver to improve the cooperation between the different Clans and arouse a new fresh idea of esprit de corps.
Maybe (if the Homeclans win) they will even purify the Scorpions and Hellions bloodlines ...
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It seems that while the odds of the Hansa and Imperio jointly recognising their collective peril and agreeing to co-operate against the Homeworld Clan threat is somewhat low, I wouldn't be surprised if the Adders choosing the four worlds they did (all of which on the side of the League facing towards Nueva Castile) was meant as an insurance against such a turn of events.
By placing their beach-head on worlds like Novgorod, the Adders would make any courier or supply runs from Bremen to Granada and back that much more difficult to manage, since the CDF (or the Imperio's naval arm) would have to route any two-way circuits around those systems (and hope not to get caught by any Adder patrols in the region).
One thing that might be worth considering, even if the Adders do go for the slow-and-steady route into the Hanseatic League; what if the other Homeworld Clans decide to start Trials of Possession for some of the enclaves which the Adders might secure in the early stages of the invasion? (Even if the Adders oblige the Council to give them the lead prerogative over how far into the League the conquest will go, that may not stop the other Clans from trying to nibble away at the holdings which the Adders have planned for the worlds they will settle for.)
To put it another way; say, by 3100, the Adders have half-a-dozen enclaves on Novgorod, and a dozen more scattered across the three other beach-head planets. Even if the other Clans were forbidden to go after unconquered Hansa worlds, would Novgorod now count as part of "Clanspace", and thus fair game in terms of the Lions (or Cobas or Coyotes) showing up to make Trials against some of those newly-established enclaves?
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I think the Adder master plan is bigger than we think. Whether more clans is the idea or just bigger clans; the Adders want to go back to the IS. They are very much aware what going back will take force wise. I think the Adders are on a mission to acquire more resources so the clans in general can grow larger. The Adders may very well expect the other clans to trial for the new enclaves and that may be part of the point. The Adders want to lead the clans, but they need the other clans to grow as they grow. Banacek at least seems sincere about putting The Clans before his clan and if the Adders continue this they will help all 4 clans.
What did the Adders bid for Revival, like twice what the invaders bid? My guess is an Adder lead invasion includes at least double the force of Revival. The homeworlds are no longer hidden either so I assume any invasion includes a pretty stout defensive plan. They need the Hansa's resources and probably people as well.
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One other thing that might be interesting is to see what kind of command circuits (and HPG links) the Adders might set in place on the likely invasion paths from the Homeworlds down to Hansa and Imperio space.
They won't be in any hurry to follow the trails which would have counted as part of the old Exodus Road, at least not yet; any new links would have to be established along routes that are well out of the way of any meddling Shark/Fox (or IE) investigations. (Sure, they can simply shoot down any Spheroid or Council of Six JumpShip they run into, but the odds of one escaping back to their home ports with unwelcome news is that much lower if they are never in a position to uncover the Adders' efforts in the first place.)
They may have to run their supply line across the coreward side of the Veil of the Protector, over towards Waypoint 531 (unless they wanted to bypass that system entirely; it is a known enough commodity to appear on IE's coreward sector map, and the Scorpions would know where it is) and run a line anti-spinward of Nueva Castile down to the beach-head worlds in Hansa space.
That in and of itself could be a challenge. It's one thing to send self-contained expeditions on long-range raids into Hansa or Imperio space (as happened in 3088); it's quite another to plan for permanent occupation, which would presumably lead to the need (or at least the desire) for more established supply chains back to the Homeworlds.
And that, in turn, could provide a glimmer of hope for the intended victims, if the Scorpions can catch any of the waypoints off-guard, or if the Convoy Defense Force can pull off a successful raid or few.
(With the amount of jumps it takes to get from one end of the supply route to another, even the Adders would be strained to defend every point along this route at once.)
I find the "island-hopping" aspect of these conflicts to be really interesting, personally; unlike in the IS and near Periphery, where trouble is often less than a jump away, the kind of operations required when the target is on the far side of a vast amount of unclaimed space pose a very different challenge.
By the way, has anyone here had a go at trying out some of these potential conflicts on the tabletop? Now that the Imperio has its RAT on file, the battles of 3088 could be re-enacted; both the Coyote raids into Nueva Castile, and the Adder incursions into the coreward region of the Hanseatic League.
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The home clans have a blind spot with regard to interdiction. The reality is that a force that knows what it's doing can penetrate to the homeworlds and conduct surveys without being intercepted. The trick is to carry along sufficient fuel (in its tanks or aboard a tanker dropship) to charge its KF drive without a sail. Then you just make your 30LY hops in the vast void between the stars, charging with your engine. On arrival in a system you want to survey, you stay in the outer system, well away from conventional or pirate jump points. You put your HPG relay satellites there as well.
Based on the Diamond Shark notes at the end of Wars of Reaving, that seems to be what they did using their Bugeyes. Pop out in what would in our system be the kuiper belt... and stay very quiet while you listen for messages.
Similarly, the home clans could do this to slip all the way to the IS to conduct sigint or even mount raids.
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Every system has a bubble of radio chatter that can be listened to. Basic signals sent out don't degrade for quite some time so all you have to do is jump out very far from a systems primary and just...listen. Kind of scary if you think about it. A hidden world can be discovered just by listening at the right time.
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It occurred to me that if the Star Adders do eventually conquer the entire League, the route running down to the Inner Sphere from Hansa space is looking pretty tenuous (for the Spheroids) as of 3145.
If you look at the state of the coreward-antispinward frontier of the Inner Sphere by the end of Bonfire, you have the Rim Territories and Rim Collection (neither of which would be anywhere nearly as well fortified as the Barrens are shown to be in ISP3), part of the rump areas of the Lyran Commonwealth, the coreward planets in the Jade Falcon OZ, and the Sea Fox holdings in the Chaine Cluster (assuming they are still there by then).
Given how much pressure the LCAF is under on the Marik, Wolf Empire and Jade Falcon fronts, how widely spread the Foxes are by this time, and how committed the Falcons (and Horses) are further in towards Terra and Tharkad, that region of the IS looks awfully vulnerable in the event of a large-scale invasion force jumping in from a launch pad in Hansa space.
(It will be very interesting to look out for this region in Field Manual: 3145, to see just how exposed it might be in the face of just such a vector of assault.)
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Yeah, I noticed that too a while ago. I'm afraid even darker times are ahead for my primary faction of choice.
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Coming through the Lyran/Wolf/FWL corridor/area would be a good way in. It would also put the other IS clans on your flank in between you and home. It better be a well planned attack.
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Coming through the Lyran/Wolf/FWL corridor/area would be a good way in. It would also put the other IS clans on your flank in between you and home. It better be a well planned attack.
A 32nd century invasion would be four clans again. But I'm torn about which is the optimal invasion path. There's a LOT to be said for going in from the "south". The Magistracy, the Capellans and the Former FWL are very vulnerable to being quickly wrapped up.
OTOH, there's also something to be said for barreling in and knocking out your most dangerous opposition before they have a chance to rally against you. Which implies going through the original invasion corridor.
Either way, comparing a Star Adder-lead invasion to the Jaguar/Falcon-lead Operation Revival is like comparing a special forces attack to a random thug's PCP rage. However they do it, it will be smart.
(Weird: posted without me hitting "post".)
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Yeah the Adders seem to be testing out planet hopping (like island hopping). An IS blackout could mean they take out strategic targets along a route to the final destination. No one would figure out they were there if they do it right. And we know nothing is off the table against the IS so sneaking around is viable.
Also if the Homeclans did start the blackout (which I doubt) they could roll up planets from orbit and when they go dark people will just assume the blackout knocked them offline. Fortress going up could very well be the RotS getting intel from the Shark Foxes that the homeclans are coming and launching a defense. It's all a stretch but if the snakes and co. suddenly show up in the sphere I would not be surprised.
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Fortress going up could very well be the RotS getting intel from the Shark Foxes that the homeclans are coming and launching a defense.
I doubt that. The RotS was already on its knees and even had an invasion against its capital world. If that ain't enough to trigger Magic Shield Republic, I'd say Exarch Levin is as borderline crazy as it gets.
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Yeah the Adders seem to be testing out planet hopping (like island hopping). An IS blackout could mean they take out strategic targets along a route to the final destination. No one would figure out they were there if they do it right. And we know nothing is off the table against the IS so sneaking around is viable.
Hey Cold1. For a while I was thinking along similar lines about an attack by the Home Clans (or somebody...) coming from the antispinward areas. Wolf holdings creeping so far into the Inner Sphere were suspicious. If this is the case, how much time would it take the Adders alone to conquer Hansa space? That would be hard to estimate. It could take forever to do that while keeping other Clans out of the action, this is too big to keep secret.
All that aside, I bet all four Home Clans would make short work of it, possibly under two years. Optimistically, of course. It could bog down possibly too. Development of planets is the Clans' real strong suit, and that would carry on to 3250 I imagine. Hansa Space seems to be a nice pocket of habitability, and a nice new area to open up. But the attack would be similar to an Operation Klondike type of event, a watershed or turning point in which the Home Clans were reforged before a greater task... destroying the Lyrans! ;)
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I don't think the Adders undertake any major move alone. They want the clans learning to fight together. If they go after the Hansa it will be with help. Also the Hansa ground troops are pretty bAd so the clans really only need to whack their aero support and the rest is a mop up. Theoretically the Hansa is a proving ground for new tactics and toys as a practice run for the real invasion.
If the homeclans do conquer the Hansa they have to whack the Imperio too in order to protect their supply lines. If they conquer those systems everybody "West" of the Falcons all the way to the Outravens had better be seriously concerned because they could come from anywhere on that half of the sphere at that point. Or as I suspect, from two different angles meeting in the middle likely after making nice with an IS clan or two along the way.
Remember the Adders don't have ANY bad blood with the Horses and the Lions are Horses. The Horses lost half their touman to Malvina so they could use a new ally.
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I don't think the Adders undertake any major move alone. They want the clans learning to fight together. If they go after the Hansa it will be with help. Also the Hansa ground troops are pretty bAd so the clans really only need to whack their aero support and the rest is a mop up. Theoretically the Hansa is a proving ground for new tactics and toys as a practice run for the real invasion.
If the homeclans do conquer the Hansa they have to whack the Imperio too in order to protect their supply lines. If they conquer those systems everybody "West" of the Falcons all the way to the Outravens had better be seriously concerned because they could come from anywhere on that half of the sphere at that point. Or as I suspect, from two different angles meeting in the middle likely after making nice with an IS clan or two along the way.
Remember the Adders don't have ANY bad blood with the Horses and the Lions are Horses. The Horses lost half their touman to Malvina so they could use a new ally.
I figure it would not be alone as well. Just was thinking of a "what if" scenario where the Adders tried to take the challenge on themselves for a time... :)
And I wish the Imperio well in all matters. I liked the Scorps. Things just don't look good for them. But maybe a call for a renewed invasion of the Inner Sphere might save them. That, and their penchant to send units out far and wide. The Clan or the new nation might be destroyed, but the Seekers could be out there for a long time.
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Do you think the next invasion is going to be a massive migration? Whole of the Homeclans with every infrastructure possible moving to the IS?
As massive *swarm* ( ;) ) ?
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I think it will be a better conducted affair than the first one, which is obviously going to be the case with the Adders running the show as a defacto ilClan (whether the rest like it or not). The Kerensky Cluster will probably remain the Home Worlds until their planets are truly dust and memories, as they say.
But who knows? (besides the devs and their chosen writers) There's still two Snake Clans. One of them might get uppity and move out yet. Or maybe not. Maybe the 'yotes and Lions will get sick of them and split. :D That's the only way I see a migration happening again.
Hansa Space presents another large island that the Clans could fill and develop/exploit for gain, while also using it as a base for a new invasion. I guess this would quallify as a migration as well, though I still don't ever see the Clan Homeworlds not being the center of "pure" Clan culture. We'll also be experiencing a large jump (relatively speaking) in the timeline. Things like colonizing and development become possible, especially when a highly driven civilization like the Clans are behind the effort.
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A look at the homeworlds in 3145 will be terrifying... either the IS fan boys will be scared of what's there or they will have blown themselves up and the Homeclan fans will be horrified. But last we heard Ben Rome has dibs on the entire area for the foreseeable future, so the result should be epic regardless.
I honestly hope the fervor WoR caused will push the four remaining homeworld clans forward to more prominence in the story line. 3145 feels about right for the homeworlds to show up again.
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A look at the homeworlds in 3145 will be terrifying... either the IS fan boys will be scared of what's there or they will have blown themselves up and the Homeclan fans will be horrified. But last we heard Ben Rome has dibs on the entire area for the foreseeable future, so the result should be epic regardless.
I honestly hope the fervor WoR caused will push the four remaining homeworld clans forward to more prominence in the story line. 3145 feels about right for the homeworlds to show up again.
I was really glad to come back to BattleTech after a long hiatus. The Wars of Reaving and Operation Klondike stand out as my favorites amongst the new sources. Ben Rome's work on the former is extraordinary in scope. Op Klondike shows that many of the others can get it done in style, too.
It's a good time to be a Clan fanboy, that's for sure. O:-) :D >:D
All the work they've set up can only end in more bloody clashes, how could it not? The Clans have been narrowed down to the true survivors. It was done for a reason, and now it's time to see everything unfold...
When do we get to find out again?
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When do we get to find out again?
Fanglasses mode? ilClan Star Adder next year.
Fanglasses aside, the devs said it would be a few years before we hear anything about them.
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Was hoping for maybe the time table had been bumped up on that. O:-)
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TPTB did a good job in demolishing the Homeclans (both manpower and infrastructure), rebuilding and building new is somewhat more challenging to design.
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I'm not losing any sleep over it as long as the current dev team (especially Ben and Paul) are plotting it. My hope is that the Adders become Ilclan, my guess is that it will be the Wolves. The comment about not seeing more from the homeworld for a while was made around the time WoR first came out. The end of next year-ish would be 2 real years since we've heard from them so it's plausible they could be in the Ilclan source material.
To rebuild, grow, prepare in the homeworlds and invade Terra in 60 years would be a massive undertaking. It would require a lot of strategic planning and smart decision making as well as more resources. Fan boy as it may be, I think the Adders are capable of making it happen.
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The jump to 3145 will be big enough, but the jump to 3250 - when it arrives - will bring a lot of surprises I hope. A lot can happen, that was what I was thinking about above. How all this would shake out when that finally happens.
And I wouldn't call it losing sleep so much as waking dream time. ;D
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The comments about a total tech change making current tech obsolete makes me think the the homeclans may show up with new toys as the Ilclan.
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So really, the Adders did actually have something in common with the Blood Spirits (besides arming civilians when the chips are down ;) ). Both Clans live for the future. Exactly how they do it ended up being the difference.
A lot of stuff will happen in between now and 3250. Lots of operations and rebuilding... so much history and characters and new war machines too.
:) Waking Dream Time again.
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Indeed, the 3250 stuff is very interesting. Would like to be a fly on the wall during these brainstorming sessions and talks.
However, given Herb`s SecuriCats that would be quite dangerous ... but no risk, no fun ;)
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Well, better a fly than a mouse, I guess. :P
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Cats and flies does have ... well ... issues too. :)
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What do you think will be the future Homeclan warrior be like?
Far more individual warrior than now or more being soldier-like?
More training in combined warfare and interaction with other warriors?
The unit will be in the center, not the individual warrior?
Will be individual clusters and galaxies be more important for the future Homeclans?
So that warriors from different Clans will form interclan units. Maybe a true combat-worthy Ebon Keshik?
Will the Homeclans try to improve the human-machine interface so that both pilot and machine will be more synchronized?
But letting the human still be human (no cybernetic monstrosity). Just like a Neuro-suit?
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I think Adder warriors will be even more like SLDF soldiers and less like the clan warriors we know. The ability to operate as a unit may take a bigger role with the Adders leading the way. The Lions experimenting with NOVA and the fact they didn't ban all Society tech shows a new level of practicality and flexibility. If that grows and you get toumans that fight like true militaries somebody is going to be in trouble.
I think trials between clans become more honorable, with warriors or commanders showing respect to opponents during and after combat.
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Considering their larger population, and that they no longer have assassins and total warfare wiping out any progression, I suspect the IS is going to leap ahead of any isolated faction (Like the homeclans) unless they regain contact with the IS way before the 3250 mark. The only reason the Clans got their tech advantage in the first place is because they didnt have the widespread damage and sabotage the IS did.
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I think Adder warriors will be even more like SLDF soldiers and less like the clan warriors we know. The ability to operate as a unit may take a bigger role with the Adders leading the way. The Lions experimenting with NOVA and the fact they didn't ban all Society tech shows a new level of practicality and flexibility. If that grows and you get toumans that fight like true militaries somebody is going to be in trouble.
I think trials between clans become more honorable, with warriors or commanders showing respect to opponents during and after combat.
This. I was re-reading the Adder entry in FM:CC last night, and was struck again by their pragmatism. Equal treatment for freebirths, use of the adjutant roles (which IMO every clan should use), the extensive use of intelligence, respect for strategy, their sheer patience. They don't deify Nicholas Kerensky. They never over-extend themselves, preferring a long, slow, methodical grind over a blitzkrieg. Go re-read Hannibal Banacek's entry in WoR; it tells us a lot about how the Adders think (also, love the George Peppard references there).
My other favorite clan, the Diamond Sharks, have been friendly rivals for years. When the Adders heard about Tukayyid, they hammered on the Sharks to seize territory and resources. Not out of any animosity; it was just an opportunity. Neither side took it personally, and each respected the other deeply. That tells me a lot about both clans.
So their own claims notwithstanding, I wonder how much the Adders exemplify clan traditionalism, and how much they're redefining it. That Lion entry, slipped in so matter-of-factly, says a lot. Remember, this is the clan that created a whole Galaxy that uses Inner Sphere tactics to train other galaxies... and they did this decades before the invasion.
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What do you think will be the future Homeclan warrior be like?
Far more individual warrior than now or more being soldier-like?
More training in combined warfare and interaction with other warriors?
The unit will be in the center, not the individual warrior?
Will be individual clusters and galaxies be more important for the future Homeclans?
So that warriors from different Clans will form interclan units. Maybe a true combat-worthy Ebon Keshik?
Will the Homeclans try to improve the human-machine interface so that both pilot and machine will be more synchronized?
But letting the human still be human (no cybernetic monstrosity). Just like a Neuro-suit?
I think most of these will be a goal for the future Home Clans and Adders in particular. Military tradition is what they hold dear. Almost any kind of martial tech progress might be pursued, especially for use against the IS. And I would not be surprised if they develop an excellent espionage unit far more cunning and loyal to the Clans than the Dragoons were.
What if, like the Monty Python 'Grail scene goes, "they already got one! It's very nice..."
A unit that is of Adder loyalty spying on IS. Already there and walking amongst us (sometimes). Any takers? Perhaps launched sometime before the close of the 31st century.
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I think most of these will a goal for the future Home Clans and Adders in particular. Military tradition is what they hold dear. Almost any kind of martial tech progress might be pursued, especially for use against the IS. And I would not be surprised if they develop an excellent espionage unit far more cunning and loyal to the Clans than the Dragoons were.
What if, like the Monty Python 'Grail scene goes, "they already got one! It's very nice..."
A unit that is of Adder loyalty spying on IS. Already there and walking amongst us (sometimes). Any takers? Perhaps launched sometime before the close of the 31st century.
Hey, what if one of the IS clans is still secretly working with the Adders? What if they took (or claimed to have taken) some token damage in the Wars of Reaving, but are playing both sides against the middle? What if their whole IS presence is an opportunistic way to gather up-to-the-minute intel on all the IS powers, and then be waiting and ready to act as a fifth column throughout the IS during a renewed invasion?
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Hm... Wolves, Jade Turkeys and Hell's Horses all seem to follow up on their own agenda during the Dark Age. Ghost Bears? Not a chance. They settled in and are there to stay without changing their vicinity too much.
Snow Ravens? Last time I checked they weren't exactly our best friends.
Sea Fox? Also rather unlikely, even though they would sell their genemothers, if the price was right.
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Sea Fox? Also rather unlikely, even though they would sell their genemothers, if the price was right.
But we would never sell our genemothers to any IS faction, we swear it on the words of Kerensky, as written by Nagasawa...
;)
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I've heard the same song sung before, haven't I? ;)
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Sea Fox? Also rather unlikely, even though they would sell their genemothers, if the price was right.
Let's be fair. They wouldn't sell their genemother if the price was right. They'd sell your genemother if the price was right. :P
The suggestion was with tongue in cheek. But the Sharks and Adders had a healthy mutual respect going.
I'll have to re-read the Wars of Reaving, but I noticed that all the atrocities that hit the Diamond Sharks, hit about a tenth as hard as the other IS clans. Their biggest two losses were the destruction of their retreating JumpShip fleet at Salonika (a case where their ships had known they had been sighted weeks before the attack, but just sat there waiting), and the Coyote/Society destruction of their enclaves Vinton. They were the last ones out of the Kerensky Cluster. The whole account of the WoR book comes from their report to the Council of Six.
So let's speculate. The Adders need intelligence, logistics bases, contacts they can use as intermediaries. They will need massive supply lines. Who better to supply it than their friendly rivals, rivals who might not have suffered quite so badly at Adder hands as they claimed? A clan spread throughout the Inner Sphere, with supply bases and contacts and yet few permanent holdings of their own. Presumably massive production to support their war machine... somewhere-- all of it off camera. A clan blithely unconcerned about building a periphery presence right on the warpath from Strana Mechty to Terra.
I'm not saying this is true, mind you. It's just a funny conspiracy theory that's perfect for an RPG internet forum. But the pieces do fit rather nicely. Put it another way. Let's say, hypothetically, the Sharks secretly do have a deal with the Star Adders. What would they do differently from what they've already done?
And now, cue the x-files riff.
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Well, the Sea Foxes could provide all the necessities without breakin a sweat, however they would need to be able to extract more advantages for themselves from a setting where the Adders rule supreme than from the current order of things.
Given that by 3145 the Homeworld Clans would probably have the technological edge over common Clan tech as we know it, I think the Foxes benefit more by selling their stuff to the Great Houses and fellow tainted Clanners. That's why I thought it rather unlikely to see an Adder-Foxes collaboration.
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Even though it would make sense to offer your services to both sides while staying out of the heat yourself... :P
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There can always be a surprise in store, but I doubt the Adders will have any more dealings with the Foxes, especially after our "betrayal" - selling those silly Undine suits was more trouble than it was worth... almost ;)
The Foxes might be high on the Adder's hitlist when the new invasion does come precisely because of that. I know the two sides had respect at one point, but the years of the Great Refusal, the Post-Refusal era and the Wars of Reaving have destroyed that, it seems. Shark Foxes and Ravens are especially high on the hitlist, I bet.
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I'm not losing any sleep over it as long as the current dev team (especially Ben and Paul) are plotting it.
But how much free rein would they have to set the course of events?
If the Wars of Reaving are intended to be the last time any of the Homeworld Clans were to constitute a threat to the Inner Sphere (due to some unforeseen calamity, or perhaps due to a more deeply entrenched streak of isolationism), then I would imagine they may have a freer hand in setting the tone of events. If there is nothing of major import brewing out there in the coreward Deep Periphery by 3145 or 3250 (from an Inner Sphere perspective, at least), to the extent that those invested solely in the IS wouldn't need to care, that might lead things in new directions... or mean that the odds of getting back out there in a printed publication might be low for quite some time to come.
If, on the other hand, the Star Adders are set to become the ilClan, the degree of overspill into the "core" areas of responsibility would dictate a very different approach to things. (Even the era prior to a renewed invasion would need to be worked out more thoroughly, to make sure that whatever happend to get the Homeworld Clans from 3090 to 3145 lines up with what direction the BattleTech staff as a whole might want to lay in place for the Next Great Leap to 3250.)
None of this is intended to be a slight against any particular writer or developer; I'm sure that whoever is tasked with the lead writing duties in the ilClan sourcebook, the result will be just as successful. The only part I'd question is the assumption that the same writing staff behind Wars of Reaving would be an automatic shoo-in for the job, in the event that the Star Adders secure a lasting hold on Terra.
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Hey, what if one of the IS clans is still secretly working with the Adders? What if they took (or claimed to have taken) some token damage in the Wars of Reaving, but are playing both sides against the middle? What if their whole IS presence is an opportunistic way to gather up-to-the-minute intel on all the IS powers, and then be waiting and ready to act as a fifth column throughout the IS during a renewed invasion?
The answer is really clear... Horses. No two clans show each other more mutual respect in WoR than the Horses and Adders.
The Adders probably slipped quite a few watch warriors in with the Alpha units chasing the Burrocks and most of them went to the sphere with the Horses. Now good honorable little clan warriors transfer to their new clan nicely, but not watch troops, especially Adder watch warriors. So they are theoretically already there.
The connection between the two clans was at the highest level an dwe dont have all the details from the Shark report so who knows how deep it goes.
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What do you think will be the future Homeclan warrior be like?
Far more individual warrior than now or more being soldier-like?
The Adders run the show in the Homeworlds and they are a conservative, if pragmatic, Clan. They're the home of the Bastions but also the origin of the ultra-reactionary Aggressor movement. If the Bastions hold power then I would not expect to see major deviations from standard Clan doctrine, other than a zero-tolerance approach to any BS from the IS (so no 3050-era stubbornly sticking to zell no matter what).
If the Aggressor movement ends up being more influential though, then I think you might see a more SLDF-style approach to fighting the IS, with very strict Clan Honor used for battles against the non-Tainted Clans.
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The Adders run the show in the Homeworlds and they are a conservative, if pragmatic, Clan. They're the home of the Bastions but also the origin of the ultra-reactionary Aggressor movement. If the Bastions hold power then I would not expect to see major deviations from standard Clan doctrine, other than a zero-tolerance approach to any BS from the IS (so no 3050-era stubbornly sticking to zell no matter what).
If the Aggressor movement ends up being more influential though, then I think you might see a more SLDF-style approach to fighting the IS, with very strict Clan Honor used for battles against the non-Tainted Clans.
I think we see SLDF style warfare against all non-homeworld opponents from either side. Its just amatter of whether the big scale stuff is used strategically or in a berzerker rage glass everything in site.
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I don't see any collaboration between the Foxes and Adders. If the Foxes aid an Adder invasion, they'll antagonize all of their current customers if they don't provoke military operations by those customers against them. Additionally, the Foxes did give aid to the Blood Spirits during the Reavings, so the Adders probably aren't pleased with them either.
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IMHO it could be possible that among the common Clanners in the IS the Invading (if they do that) Homeclans might find support. Maybe there will be somewhat of a "Purifier" movement, hardcore Clanners who want to decrease the increasing influence of Spheroids among some Clans (I have to think of Ghost Bears).
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The Adders would regard the Foxes as inherently Tainted, would they not? The Adders were part of the Snake Alliance that swapped targets from the Ravens to the Sharks, though admittedly the Adders were nakedly opportunistic about it.
That was from even before all the Khanate fleet-based stuff and open trading with any IS power with money to spend.
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The Adders would regard the Foxes as inherently Tainted, would they not? The Adders were part of the Snake Alliance that swapped targets from the Ravens to the Sharks, though admittedly the Adders were nakedly opportunistic about it.
That was from even before all the Khanate fleet-based stuff and open trading with any IS power with money to spend.
Just for the record, as I pointed out when I wrote the theory, it was meant as a wacky conspiracy theory. :) And yes, everything you're saying is correct.
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So getting no news about the Homeworlds in Objective:Clans, good or bad ?
IMHO considweruing the vast damages dealt in the last time it is better not to know ;)
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I think the rate of rebuilding and refitting for the Homeworlds will be faster than the IS clans, they have more to work with.
That said I'm sure something is in the pipe line for us since Wantec was dropping hints about knowing what Homeworld production looked like. My guess is we see something in the next 12-18 months regarding the homeclans.
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I think the rate of rebuilding and refitting for the Homeworlds will be faster than the IS clans, they have more to work with.
That said I'm sure something is in the pipe line for us since Wantec was dropping hints about knowing what Homeworld production looked like. My guess is we see something in the next 12-18 months regarding the homeclans.
Pffft, wantec knows nothing. (And he's in my gaming group.)
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Well, meanwhile I think the silence is not so bad.
However I hope for a new serie of designs for the Homeclans, maybe some based on existing, but not as many designs as they now (seem to) have.
15 are the maximum, imho.
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Pffft, wantec knows nothing. (And he's in my gaming group.)
Hmmm... he seemed so honest and nice I almost turned over my life savings for info. My kid won't need a college fund, he's 8 months old and already looks like a 2 year old surely he will be good at some sport.
Seriously though didn't Wantec help with the inventory of homeworld production facilities at least pre-Reaving?
Also since you're gracing us with you presence do you still have dibs on the homeworld area of space?
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Well, meanwhile I think the silence is not so bad.
However I hope for a new serie of designs for the Homeclans, maybe some based on existing, but not as many designs as they now (seem to) have.
15 are the maximum, imho.
All I ask is for is a few new variants of the omnis that are dead to everyone else.
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Hmmm... he seemed so honest and nice I almost turned over my life savings for info. My kid won't need a college fund, he's 8 months old and already looks like a 2 year old surely he will be good at some sport.
Seriously though didn't Wantec help with the inventory of homeworld production facilities at least pre-Reaving?
Also since you're gracing us with you presence do you still have dibs on the homeworld area of space?
I helped with the RATs (which were further tweeked by Ben & Paul). I was joking in the other thread, hoping to get a response out of Paul, but he seemed to get distracted by the complainers.
For the RATs I made a list of the factories in the HWs based on TROs, WOR, & any other mention in a sourcebook I could find. From there I adjusted the list & trimmed it down & divided out the factories on worlds with shared ownership (i.e. more than one clan holds enclaves on the world). So all I've got is my unofficial, educated-guess list.
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Well, meanwhile I think the silence is not so bad.
However I hope for a new serie of designs for the Homeclans, maybe some based on existing, but not as many designs as they now (seem to) have.
15 are the maximum, imho.
16 would be about right i think, 4 clans, 1 mech in each weight class.
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One streamlined military for all the homeworld toumans. In each weight class one fast, one slow and one medium omni chassis. A good mix of configurations that use a low number of different weapons, so that supply lines are easy to build up.
Similar way for tanks and ASF, together with three different BAs (Scout, Assault and Mix) and you will have a real military. There is really no need for 100 different designs with dozens of different weapons. That is just waste of ressources.
And definitely a rebuild navy. The Steel Vipers and Ghost Bears have shown that a big ship is a good ship.
And at least a tactical doctrin away from personal honor, but based on combined arms and teamwork.
Thats the way i see the homeworls becoming a power to come back to the IS even with less ressources.
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If the Home Clans choose to wait for a long time in preparation - such as to the 3250 jump - they should have all these things. They still had know-how for construction of facilities to build naval and ground forces, unlike the dearth of knowledge that the IS will be going through during the DA.
Lots of time and things to happen during for the IS, though. Many developments for weapons technology are hinted at, and I can't begin to imagine where the new plot lines will go...
That 18 month estimate of Cold1's looks good, too. We can only hope for the best. :)
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I helped with the RATs (which were further tweeked by Ben & Paul). I was joking in the other thread, hoping to get a response out of Paul, but he seemed to get distracted by the complainers.
For the RATs I made a list of the factories in the HWs based on TROs, WOR, & any other mention in a sourcebook I could find. From there I adjusted the list & trimmed it down & divided out the factories on worlds with shared ownership (i.e. more than one clan holds enclaves on the world). So all I've got is my unofficial, educated-guess list.
I have never met Paul but based solely on his posts I find him not to be someone I would not want to poke in search of a reply. But you know him better than me. I was also joking, I would not spend my kids college fund to get info early, just the $29.99 when it ready.
I hope we get to see some awesome out o fthe homeworlds. Its probably fan boy bias but they seem a bit more 3D and much more fleshed out now. I know most BT fans are not primarily fans of the remaining 4 clans but man there is potential to wreck some stuff }:)
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They were honed down to the four for a reason, they exist primarily to ravage the IS.
[watch]
It's just this matter of when... admittedly, no length of time will really be soon enough.
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An ongoing improvement of Protomechs (maybe even Omni-Protomechs) would be reasonable too.
Due the 15 Omnimechs, I three per weight class (light, medium, heavy and assault) are sufficient.
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Hello Star Adders,
According to the clan personality test thread I have "Adder Like Tendencies" so can you suggest which of your bloodlines could have been used as a Genefather by the Wolves?
I'm imagining something along the lines of Wolves get the genetic material, Star Adders get 'something I haven't thought through'.
Maybe three trials staking genetic material vs assets so both clans have a chance of getting some of what they want.
Any advice much appreciated.
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Absalom Truscott, our founder, was Nicky K's mentor and one of his closest supporters. It would make sense if the Wolves used his legacy as a genefather. Though I do not know of canon support for this.
There is a Truscott Star Colonel in the Wolf Touman in FM:3085, Duke Truscott I believe. So there's a possibility there as well.
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He could be a Pershaw, too. [skull]
They seem to have been spread around, at least to the Falcons. Maybe he's from an abtakha sibko. ;D
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Truscott or Pershaw ..... Nice! Big time fan of both.
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Well obviously, I picked the Adders after the Jags died cuz they were the opposite of the Jags. I still like the Jags in their era. When the Adders die (and I'm pretty sure they will) I'll pick someone different, still love the Adders in their day, and the Jags in theirs.
And yes... you get awesome paint schemes
Emphasis mine, just to highlight.
It's not obvious from the tag and time stamp that this came from the Blood Spirit thread.
Was thinking about this for a bit, and it just strikes me that the Star Adders are probably not going to get gacked. They and the rest of the Home Clans are known survivors of one type or another, it's in all of their histories. They could realize that they are in a relative corner of sorts and spread out, especially to the Hansa or parts of the Imperio. That's if the Kerensky Cluster really is some kind of dead end.
I would love to see the map of what's beyond... I wonder if that gap between our Orion Spur and the next arm of the Milky Way (moving coreward) is impassable... Only Oystein knows for sure.
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Well obviously, I picked the Adders after the Jags died cuz they were the opposite of the Jags. I still like the Jags in their era. When the Adders die (and I'm pretty sure they will) I'll pick someone different, still love the Adders in their day, and the Jags in theirs.
Cold1, why do you think the Adders will die?
Simply because they are strong, so they must die?
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Cold1, why do you think the Adders will die?
Simply because they are strong, so they must die?
I think the Adders will be used as a plot device eventually. They are the perfect foil for Ilclan. Have the home clans smash to Terra and hold for the 100 year time jump then we start over with the remnants of the house and IS clans banding together to fight back. It starts with brush wars and leads to all out warfare across the sphere as control is taking back from the Adders and whoever is loyal to them.
I don't want the Adders to die, that would be whacky. But face it, they're a very strong faction. I'd wager no other faction of their size has so few fans. If you're the devs/writers and you want a faction to be the bad guy then go down in flames; the faction with few fans is a good choice.
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I'm not so sure if we are a minority - there is just nothing to discuss as no new Information is around. So we do what the Adders do: Wait and plan
If minority is the only reason to extinct a faction you have to kill all the periphery first. With all of the homeworlds second. And you would have to increase the mercenary market massively.
But to be honest the Adders are the only faction around with a clear Vision, a plan for it and the potential for success. BT is living from good stories. And the Adders can be storymakers. Not the dumb minded barbarian hordes for which most Clans are described, not satisfied and lazy in their Hibernation. No fussy but annoying barker. But just a serious Military Organisation that plans to hunt down all of their enemies and forge all of the universe for their Vision.
I'm sure we will here News from the Adders when the time is right. And the fight will be hard and glorious. Maybe we will fail and die - but it will not be a silent disappearance or something covered with only one or two chapters of a sourcebook. ;)
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Oh no, I expect the death of the Adders to be epic. Like 2 dead houses and Terra in flames later epic.
If the clans steadily rebuilt pos Reaving until 3145 they should be one of the most feared forces in space. They should not go away lightly.
I do think Adder, Cobra, Coyote, and Lion fans equate to a very small minority. I'd wager the Horses, Falcons, wolves, sharks, and Bears have more fans each than all the home clans combined.
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Oh no, I expect the death of the Adders to be epic. Like 2 dead houses and Terra in flames later epic.
If the clans steadily rebuilt pos Reaving until 3145 they should be one of the most feared forces in space. They should not go away lightly.
I do think Adder, Cobra, Coyote, and Lion fans equate to a very small minority. I'd wager the Horses, Falcons, wolves, sharks, and Bears have more fans each than all the home clans combined.
Falcons, Wolves and Bears I agree.
Horses, no.
Star Adder fans are strong in Germany, after WoR the numbers have increased.
Nevertheless the Homeclans and their culture shall live on.
It has not be the known.
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Each faction with some love in the novels - either on the good side or the bad side - got its share of fans. I'm sure the Adders would have more fans if there were a novel Trilogie about the WoR. ;)
Beside that i don't think the number of Posts in this Forum is a good indicator for the real number of fans. If that would be the case CGL should close the lines for BT as there are not enough customers around. :D
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The forum is not the fan base but it is a vocal representation of the fan base. The Adders are probably not a top 5 or likely even top 10 faction amongst fans.
I'm not wishing us dead, I just see the opportunity for the Adders to become the ultimate plot device.
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I'm not wishing us dead, I just see the opportunity for the Adders to become the ultimate plot device.
This they can be without dying ;)
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This they can be without dying ;)
This is why it would be awesome to be Ilclan. Take Terra and essentially win for 100 years... yes please.
I still think the following things will happen:
Alaric will take Terra, the homeclans will flip at how deep the taint spread due to his lineage
The Sea Foxes are not abjured by the grand council, they're on our side and no one knows it
The homeclans will use the Sea Foxes as an advanced force to take Terra away from a battered clan Wolf.
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Sea Foxes are Very Loyal to the
Council of Sicks Council of Six. ;D
I knew you weren't hoping they get destroyed, cold1, just wondered about your reasoning just to know because Star Adder fans have been quiet by and large. I think all Clan factions should beware. But on the other hand, yeah, the Adders do look like a big, perfect target. They are the face of the Homeworlds these days. Everyone else in the Kerensky Cluster has an identity too, more or less, but the leadership and strength is undisputed.
We know for sure that something will happen. And it will be big.
I still wonder about you Adders and the other homies, and what you're doing lately in the Hansa and the Imperio sections of space. There's room for all kinds of epic right there, they don't even need the rest. But ilClan could mean anything :) Hopefully we get the story.
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Personally I hope that the real reason we haven't seen the Homeworlders yet is that their whole "we will steamroll the Scorpions and Hansa for practice" idea got bogged down horribly. Not that I'm wishing failure on anybody, but I'd really enjoy it if the Scorpions could prove capable of holding off the Adders et al for a while. Besides, the universe still needs at least one kooky sharpshooting faction in it. #P
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Agreed. I hope the Imperio will hold its own in both Imperio and Hansa space. I hope they won't be a primary focus of Homeworld attention. They are survivors too. Their totem crawls in the deserts endlessly, they fell into semi-marginalization through others mostly ignoring them through the golden and political centuries, yet they revamped prior to Revival and took a role that increased their involvement until the Wars of Reaving. They left the Kerensky Cluster in slightly better order than the Cats, mostly through not facing so many angry Clans.
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If you believe the reports in WoRS and ISP3 the Scorpion empire is a mess and I doubt they could with stand an all out invasion. Actually they would probably put up a heck of a fight but lose. The Hansa's space fillet and aero heavy assets worry me a little.
My big concern is that clans encounter the WoB in some manner and that is what delayed them. Though I had a thought... what if the WoB heads to Hansa space in an attempt to reorganize another strike on the IS. Say they are responsible for the blackout even (an attack with no logical follow up). The clans are prepared to attack the Hansa, realize the WoB blacked out the HPG grid and are about invade the sphere. What if the clans attack the WoB to stop them from invading the sphere. Or vice versa, the clans cause the blackout but the WoB attacks them to stop their invasion of the sphere.
Something like this seems more likely at this point than a clan invasion.
In the meantime (to keep it Adder up in here) I'm building an entire Adder assault cluster. Fluff says one trinary of all cavalry heavies and the rest a mix of assaults and heavies. So far I only have one 3/5 star in the whole cluster (Dire Wolf x 2, Savage Yote x 2, Turkina) and the rest of the assaults are faster. I'm thinking the 5/8 trinary really needs one star of 6/9 mechs. I was thinking Stormcrows and Linebackers. Anyone have a suggestion on what other omni moves 6/9ish and is tough enough to hang in this unit? (timeframe is 3100).
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I would assume any remaining WoB base deep in the Periphery beyond the former Circinus Federation or Marian Hegemony. Looks more familiar with the former WoB activities. We know they already had bases there. Why relocate to a Hansa ?
Coming back to the Adders it Looks like a proven concept to use the Hansa as test ground for the own army. Think about York and you can only agree that it already worked one time. I think the Adders learned that fighting each other will only weaken the homeworlds. So they need to focus on another enemy to get combat skills.
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WoR Supplemental left quite a cliffhanger.
The Situation between the Homeclans and the Imperio cries for good a story. It is far too simple that the Homeclans will only use them for training their troops or get rid off unreliable troops.
Given the great-story-behind PoV TPTB have been doing, it might be the beginning of a Deep Periphery theatre of war (and maybe finally the birht of a new faction).
Born in the fires of war, united in a common a just cause.
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I rather like the idea of old school clans. Clan warriors got nerfed pretty hard after the initial invasion. Be nice to see the return of clan warriors that are not just great warriors but great commanders as well, it's the Adder way. But most importantly let's have a reality check for a moment, can the genetically engineered super soldiers win something for once. The flaw has always been poor leadership, not flexible, not strategy. The remaining homeworld clans don't have those issues.
The homeworlds need to be come a well lead and well trained army of genetically engineered super soldiers. They need to fight like an army with a unified focus and purpose.
Yeah they basically need to be the SLDF again.
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So not a Star League, but a Star Clan? :)
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Now that the various 3145 books are out in one form or another, there is a good sense of who in the Inner Sphere and near Periphery is using what kind of units technologies, which regiments and Galaxies these tools are being deploying in, and where they are positioned on the map in the run-up to whatever happens next.
So, for argument's sake, if you were a Star Adder ilKhan chosen to lead Operation [insert appropriate code-name for a post-3145 invasion of the Inner Sphere] and you somehow had enough information at your disposal to know what to expect to face, how would you approach things in 3146?
Would you try and follow the old Exodus Road, and jump into the coreward frontier of the Draconis Combine? Would you instead use occupied Hansa space (assuming the Hanseatic League had been turned into a Homeworld Clan OZ by that point) to steamroll the Rim Territories and plough into what remains of the Lyran Commonwealth? Would you instead re-use the REVIVAL route, and try to overwhelm the speedbump-fortifications in the Barrens before barrelling into the Horse OZ and the nearest edge of the Rasalhague Dominion? Or perhaps use any particular combination of the above options?
And with the further assumption that the three other Homeworld Clans were a) still alive and b) willing to follow your leadership in the course of a renewed invasion, what role would you assign to the Coyote, Cloud Cobra, and Stone Lion forces taking part - and which tasks would you reserve for the Star Adder touman itself?
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If I have the intelligence I need (I am Star Adder so I better); I will wait. Wait for a clan to smash the RotS since the Wolves and Falcons appear to want to do so. Wait for those factions to fight. See who wins, wait for them to repel a house or two. Then before the dust can settle and they can bring in other clans, hit them. Run through the churned up path the Wolves and Falcons left and pop up in mass near Terra. Use what should be the largest warship fleet left by far to pummel everything I can use ground troops only for the epic battles. Set Terra ablaze and smash my way back where I came from, behind my heavily reinforced blockade in the homeworlds. Get out before the Ghost Bear wakes up is a must.
As for which clans go where: Kerensky and Truscott dreamed of a unified clans returning as the SLDF to right the wrongs. So we roll together, we fight together, and we burn together. All 4 clans fight in a unified military. No zell, no honor battles, just warfare.
The Adders fought the sphere once before. They laid out bait in a trap then struck a flank and rolled up their opponent before they knew what hit them. I see no reason they don't just do it on a larger scale.
I would love to see Society tech 2-3 developmental generations down the line. Warship NOVA CEWS would be sick. Heck I'd just some to see a mass of Leviathan Primes rolling through the Sphere. Weaponized HPGs on mechs and vees taking out much larger targets. Full ortillery strikes. With the blackout I'd love to see stories of jumpships showing up over important worlds to find them torched with no trace of the culprit. Leave a swath all the way to Terra.
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If they came, they should start a complete migration.
They do not have the resources for both invading the IS and defending the Homeworlds against IS invasions at the same time.
Furthermore I would like to see them perfecting the Clan warrior ideal (thoese people being warriors shall be all of excellent quality let it be Mechwarriors, pilots, tankers or infantry) and advancement in technology shall be made in everything improving individual warrior`s capabilities (genetics, man-machine-interfaces ...).
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How many Galaxies and WarShips does Clan Star Adder and friends need to completely conquer the entire Inner Sphere and Near Periphery, assuming Homeworlds technology has not advanced beyond what was available in 3095 and the invasion kicks off in 3145.
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How many Galaxies and WarShips does Clan Star Adder and friends need to completely conquer the entire Inner Sphere and Near Periphery, assuming Homeworlds technology has not advanced beyond what was available in 3095 and the invasion kicks off in 3145.
More than they could ever hope to muster in that time, honestly.
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I tend to agree, especially considering the sorry state of Homeworlds infrastructure in the 3090s. The question is really a more of a thought exercise than a plausible scenario. We can't account for how large the technology disparity between the Inner Sphere and the Homeworlds is and will be. We don't know on how big Spheroid armies are going to be in the future. I'm just proposing a scenario with the only hard numbers we have available.
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We can't account for how large the technology disparity between the Inner Sphere and the Homeworlds is and will be.
And you can't assume the disparity is in the direction that you are imagining.
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And you can't assume the disparity is in the direction that you are imagining.
There are always plenty of rocks and pointy sticks.
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And you can't assume the disparity is in the direction that you are imagining.
That's why instead of making assumptions, I'm just using the most up-to-date data from The Wars of Reaving Supplemental and the 3145 products.
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You can hardly compare it in this way.
You my compare the tech data from FM3085 (but not 3145) and WoR Supplemental.
We do not know anything what might have happened since 3090 in these deep periphery regions.
However, I doubt it was peaceful.
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That's why instead of making assumptions, I'm just using the most up-to-date data from The Wars of Reaving Supplemental and the 3145 products.
WoRS also says the clans are rebuilding fairly quickly and are hard at work studying the toys they jacked from the Society and the Society's research. It's actually pretty well implied that man power is the biggest lacking resource. You can make lots of sibkos and the Hansa have a lot of people if they can be persuaded.
The tech base in the homeworlds in 3090 is ahead of the IS. Don't forget the homeworld clans have plenty of war production facilities left and working. Yeah the Falcon mech lines got blown up, but there are a lot of others left. WoRS clearly states lines are being retooled to build new mechs and the clans are studying the Society's automation technology that allowed them to build mechs faster.
The planets the clans inhabit seem to have plenty of the heavy resources to build more mechs. They have plenty of small neighbors to get more from as well.
They have a very long road ahead of them in 3090. But 55 years is 11 generations of clan warriors. That's a long time for the clans.
The fact they we haven't seen them yet doesn't worry me. The Star Adder in me says after this long if they come it will be in massive force. I also doubt they come without good intelligence, the question is how are they getting it.
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The Clan homeworlds have always been described as resource-poor, so rebuilding will not be easy. Add to that the fact that many of them had to be abandoned and a good chunk of the population had starved to death. They may have been able to put together a large number of factories, but their economic base had shrunk considerably.
The Adder Khans spoke of renewing the invasion within the next decade or two. Since that did not happen, they probably dramatically over-estimated what they could accomplish. It's also possible that the other clans decided that they were too big for their own good, and united to take them down a few dozen notches.
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I wondered somewhat about the capabilities of the Homeworlds` Military-industial complex post-WoR. If you consider the devastation told us, the Homeclans still continue producing an astonishing high number of different designs (see WoR Supplemantal, page 17, only 16 designs are not in production anymore).
Many of history`s greatest conquerers came from resource-poor and poor regions, so this should be no obstacle.
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The fact they we haven't seen them yet doesn't worry me. The Star Adder in me says after this long if they come it will be in massive force. I also doubt they come without good intelligence, the question is how are they getting it.
Boom. Right here. I wonder if ilKhan Banacek inherited whatever source that was informing Brett Andrews about the state of the IS, after the DRUM net had already been taken down. That was a clue that was jumping around waving its hands.
Basically, we don't know all of the secrets that the Homeworlds keep. We only know what Semi Kalasa was able to discern. And in the Supplemental, the Loremaster was not giving any more clues.
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The Adder khans didn't want to invade for at least X amount of generations (sorry on vacation no book to check for the exact number). It wasn't a set goal it was a minimum. Its highly likely they won't come at all, but I'm just saying if they come they will bring it full force with a solid plan.
Whether they come or not seems like 50/50 to me. Evidence and speculation each way are about equal. I honestly don't favor either I just want new source material. I fear their coming because I think they are right for the heel turn, win some big ones, then go down in flames maneuver. The collective fan base would probably riot if Adders Inc showed up in chapter 19 of the Ilclan book and took over, I doubt it happens.
The biggest question is, and this I think is certain, the Adders have to have their eyes on the Inner Sphere. I want to know how they are getting information. If they come my guess is someone is helping them, who is that exactly?
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One thought on that - it seems that, aside from having planets on the map, things are fairly quiet out in the Rim Territories (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,33157.0.html) as of late.
What if its government has already been taken over by agents of the Homeworld Clans, and is being used as a disposable rug on the front porch of the next invasion corridor?
The absence of info in the 3145 books might not be a bug, but a feature.
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If the Adders are watching the Inner Sphere, the flavor of the post-WoR material suggested to me that the Adders are enforcing a nothing-goes-in-and-nothing-leaves policy on the Homeworlds, with the sole exceptions of the Imperio and the Hansa. But if things have changed in the subsequent years between the Wars of Reaving and, say, 3150...the Inner Sphere may be too engulfed in war to handle them.
I hope the Adders maintain the hallmarks of what have made them great. Fraternal relations between castes. Easy camaraderie and almost-unheard-of deep rivalries between warriors. A flexible, mobile, hard-hitting military force. Making strategy as important as tactics. Not making the same mistakes as the original Invading Clans.
And intelligence. I'd love for the Homies to be *ready* for this. Unfortunately, other than the Stone Lions, none of the surviving Clans seem like they would do well in the Inner Sphere.
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However, what is most important before they will beginn to invade the Inner Sphere is to dee how they will overcome this ideology of Everything-Spheroid-is-tainted-and-must-be-purged.
I can hardly see the Homeclans beginning an invasion with intending to wipe out the IS.
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However, what is most important before they will beginn to invade the Inner Sphere is to dee how they will overcome this ideology of Everything-Spheroid-is-tainted-and-must-be-purged.
I can hardly see the Homeclans beginning an invasion with intending to wipe out the IS.
Here's the kicker... you have Bastions and Agressors vying for power. If they do have intelligence of the Dark Age events then they will know about Alaric's seriously tainted linage and rise to power.
I said it before but let me say again. If Alaric takes Terra and declares himself Ilkhan of the Ilclan I think the Aggressors will have the ammo they need to seize power and launch an invasion. If Alaric wins Terra and we don't see the homeclans soon after then I will start worrying about what happened out there.
I think the idea of taint is important but the Aggressor ideology is to meet the taint head on and burn it out.
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Plans can change drastically over, what, 3075 to 3145? That's 70 years' worth of production, 70 years' worth of rebuilding, 70 years' worth of preparations...and 70 years for the Homies to have further evolved into something else entirely.
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In my opinion, there is not enough info to make any informed guesses.
My personal theory is that the Home Clans have taken out the Hansa and Imperio with a potential run in with the remnants of Blake. They haven't been doing nothing the last 70 years ;)
If Alaric takes Terra (or someone else takes Terra), I can see the Inner Sphere Clans doing a reverse Revival and invading Clan space to take Strana Mechty! Now that would be an interesting tale!
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In my opinion, there is not enough info to make any informed guesses.
My personal theory is that the Home Clans have taken out the Hansa and Imperio with a potential run in with the remnants of Blake. They haven't been doing nothing the last 70 years ;)
If Alaric takes Terra (or someone else takes Terra), I can see the Inner Sphere Clans doing a reverse Revival and invading Clan space to take Strana Mechty! Now that would be an interesting tale!
The Republic is stacked even if the combined IS clans won they would be badly bloodied. To the. Turn around and attack the Homeworlds would be a bad idea, they would be hard pressed to have the resources to do it. The Wolves and Falcons would become prey to the remnants of the former houses.
I agree we don't have enough information.
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If Alaric takes Terra (or someone else takes Terra), I can see the Inner Sphere Clans doing a reverse Revival and invading Clan space to take Strana Mechty! Now that would be an interesting tale!
I don't see them going back if they can avoid it. The Remembrance that they are all raised on speaks of the Inner Sphere as a paradise that is their goal. Implied in there is the notion that the Homeworlds are a backwater. The last thing the Spheroid clans remember of the Homeworlds is a place of starvation and chaos. Who wants to go back to that?
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Many of history`s greatest conquerers came from resource-poor and poor regions, so this should be no obstacle.
This is true, but most of them come from regions where they have more resources than the ones they are conquering.
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Something in what the Wolves have done I think is very interesting: the large number of Spheroids among the Wolves ranks.
It shows strongly a willingness for divide et impera in dealing with their new subjects.
This is true, but most of them come from regions where they have more resources than the ones they are conquering.
True, but one thing does not rule out the other. ;)
I think the IS Clans might return to the Homeworlds, think of there is another ilClan ruling the Homeworlds (and other star systems) being a powerful adversery.
A "War of the two ilClans" -only one is the true. And a deep periphery war, this is quite an thrilling story and gaming scenario.
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This is true, but most of them come from regions where they have more resources than the ones they are conquering.
True, but one thing does not rule out the other. ;)
Sometimes a polity, or faction for our purposes, uses its resources the wrong way, quite simply. A conquering of that faction by another who sees how to better use those resources is an inevitability. No need to site any of the multitude of instances throughout history here, we all have the internet. :)
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As for the secret source of information... what if there is some link from the Homeworlds to Terra? Could this be related to the Blackout?
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If I had to guess where they get their info...
Sea Foxes
Nobody has better intel or a better network. And again let me say, their is a loophole in the Diamond Shark abjuration, technically Clan Sea Fox was not abjured. Now, I get it's a stretch of legal manipulating, but this the clans were talking about, more so the Adders.
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I do not think that they have contacts in the IS left.
If they shadow what has happened in the IS, they might send jumpships (maybe even espionage satellites) eavesdropping communication.
However, due what TPTB have told us so far (because they have not told us anything ;) ), I have gotten the idea, they are not interested in the IS anymore and have been doing their own thing.
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A "War of the two ilClans" -only one is the true. And a deep periphery war, this is quite an thrilling story and gaming scenario.
This could be where it is heading. If the IS Clans have built/refitted Super Castle Brian's in the Barron's to defend the IS against HW Clan attack, then bring it on. Of course assuming that the Council of Six are still united enough to manage such a defence.
The happening in the IS, such as CHH moving out of the Barrens, could be actions to ensure any intelligence going back to the CHWs is wrong. Wolf might have moved as a precaution and the Falcon/Bear/Wolf drives to Terra are just opportunistic happenings. Or are they? Is the Council of Six the cause of the blackout......
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However, that there would be a new superpower lurking outside of the Inner Sphere does not fit in TPTB`s idea of the universe`s economic, IMHO.
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I doubt the Horses left the Barrens for any reason other than what was stated: it wasn't cost-efficient to garrison them with their limited value and their limited forces. And I don't see the Adders or any other Home Clan playing the sort of Spheroid games that they are so vehemently opposed to, like supplying the Barrens factions with 'Mech that the Horses could very possibly trace back to them, or expending the massive amount of time and resources needed to shut down the HPGs and not immediately striking when the Inner Sphere was most vulnerable.
When the Adders come, and I've no doubt that they will (especially in the aforementioned War of the Two ilClans scenario!), they'll strike with no warning.
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So who caused the blackout? It's looking more and more like Republic didn't do it. Who else has motive to blackout the IS? The Word of Blake maybe?
The Homeworlds causing the blackout makes sense until they don't show up in force right after.
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No, the Home Clans *never* made sense as the perpetrators of the Blackout. It's not a tactic the Clans would necessarily use, for starters, as it reeks of dishonor and Spheroid. Then there's the fact that they don't have the resources to pull it off, nor the capability.
In ISP3, the Green Ghosts have been seen with the same emblem as was seen on the forces who caused the Blackout. Discover the identity of the Green Ghosts and you have your culprit. Sure isn't gonna be a Homeworld Clan.
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No, the Home Clans *never* made sense as the perpetrators of the Blackout. It's not a tactic the Clans would necessarily use, for starters, as it reeks of dishonor and Spheroid. Then there's the fact that they don't have the resources to pull it off, nor the capability.
In ISP3, the Green Ghosts have been seen with the same emblem as was seen on the forces who caused the Blackout. Discover the identity of the Green Ghosts and you have your culprit. Sure isn't gonna be a Homeworld Clan.
Um both the Adders and Coyotes are big fans of special ops and watch actions. The fact that both ideologies espouse all out war agains the Sphere it's not out of the question. Also worth noting that we think the WoB had weaponized HPG technology, but we KNOW the clans have both HPG software weapons and weaponized HPG technology. I'd say the clans certainly have the means to do it, I agree they don't have motive to hit and not follow with an invasion.
It's also possible the homeclans found the green ghosts already. They were expanding in that direction and they may have encountered them and learned their secrets (or waxed theM).
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Dear Mr Green Ghosts
We find ourselves on a cross roads and seek your assistance to destabilise the Inner Sphere. As this appears to be a goal of yours please consider this request.
As honourable Star Adders, we are bound not to allow ourselves to to fall prey to the ideologies and taint of the Inner-Sphere. That being said, our forces are inadequate to remove the tainted abjured Clans now parading around the Inner Sphere in Kerensky's name. A shake up of the Inner Sphere is required before we embark on our bold quest.
If you agree to cooperate, we can provide you with the means to create confusion with the lifeblood of the Inner Sphere; Communications. The technology while impressive, is not capable of taking out every HPG. There will be a requirement to hit a number of HPGs by force to remove them from the grid.
Once enacted you can continue your mission to purge evidence within the Periphery and Inner Sphere to protect your identity and whatever other goal you may have.
In exchange for the technology, we require the location of other 'hidden worlds' from which we can stage our assault on the Inner Sphere.
Look forward to your response and cooperation
Star Adder Command.
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Hahahahaha! And it rings so true!
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I doubt the Horses left the Barrens for any reason other than what was stated: it wasn't cost-efficient to garrison them with their limited value and their limited forces. And I don't see the Adders or any other Home Clan playing the sort of Spheroid games that they are so vehemently opposed to, like supplying the Barrens factions with 'Mech that the Horses could very possibly trace back to them, or expending the massive amount of time and resources needed to shut down the HPGs and not immediately striking when the Inner Sphere was most vulnerable.
When the Adders come, and I've no doubt that they will (especially in the aforementioned War of the Two ilClans scenario!), they'll strike with no warning.
IE3 strongly hints that the IS Clans are arming the barrens as if they plan on using it as a buffer against invading forces from that region of space.
Who is the most likely candidate to invade from beyond the Barrens?
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Not the Home Clans.
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ISP3 isn't exactly the most credible source, either.
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It may be the direct route, but we all know the Adders will opt for new and different. Repetition would be doomed to failure.
Unless... that makes it the perfect plan. :D
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I just don't see an invasion having a prayer of succeeding, not anymore. The Clans already lost their two biggest advantages: the element of surprise, and their technological superiority. Unless they find a way to *massively* increase their toumans, widen the technological gap again (I don't see this happening, not after the Society rebellion), and regain the element of surprise, which I suppose is possible. After all, the longer they wait to invade, the more complacent the IS Clans become.
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Definitely, that's pretty much over. It was going to be a hard fight at best before they hamstrung themselves with four invader Clans originally. There are no backups, now. So the plan (whatever the new goal is) would have to be really good and work the first time, and not what we would normally think, even being imaginative.
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And the kicker is that they're gonna have to be imaginative within the bounds of Clan honor and customs, because the Wars of Reaving and the aftermath pretty much drove thinking-outside-the-box Clans into extinction or exile. Which severely limits how they're going to be able to conduct a new invasion. The Vipers and now the Adders have willingly hamstrung themselves, and it'll be interesting to see how things shake out. Either way, it's more than likely gonna endwith their destruction. Once they decide to invade, they're committed to a path that will end in death.
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Aside from the whole "we haven't heard an update in a while" thing (which really means nothing) I see no reason to think the Homeworld clans wont invade.
They seriously developed the path of the Homeworld clans, and even created a new one. It makes literally no sense to then never touch it again, especially with all the fluff constantly hinting at (or outright saying) that another invasion is assumed.
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Actually N'buta and Banacek made the course clear:
We fight our clan brothers with honor in measured trials
We fight everyone else with everything available to us. Everything we have is available.
Absolutely nothing in canon says they will stick to zell against anyone but each other. It's pretty much explicitly stated that gloves are off for outsiders.
In 3090 the homeworld clans technological advantage is still their if you factor in what they captured form the Society. Saying they will not continue to advance is an assumption. If the clans are smart and continue to develop new weapon technology they should still have an advantage. NOVA CEWS alone is a game changer, even in 3145. I've seen a lot of very anti-homeworld types here discuss pointy sticks and rocks... but that's all assumption. You could just as easily say clan Heavy PPC, super-improved ATMs, NOVA CEWS II, Hyper XL Engines, HPG canons, Leviathan Primes, etc.
The clans don't even need better mechs. They already have the largest fleet in space (if you combine all four of them). Warship superiority is a big deal especially since the IS powers have very few. Yeah yeah Pocket warships, but I have a feeling the clans are spending some time learning about naval battles in the Hansa around 3100.
They will invade eventually. But I doubt it will look anything like Revival.
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The clans don't even need better mechs. They already have the largest fleet in space (if you combine all four of them).
Which you kind of have to. When they return, they will be united/working together.
Its the only practical course of action.
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Which you kind of have to. When they return, they will be united/working together.
Its the only practical course of action.
A practical action lead by the Adders is totally out of character ;)
If they come it will be with good intel, a good plan, and a big ole whoopin stick. They may not win and they may go down in flames. They will however bring it.
I think we have to see or hear something in the Ilclan book, even if just a small peak, or they are not coming at all.
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Agreed on pretty much all points, cold1, but since they've decided to throw their own honor away against outsiders (meaning everyone but themselves and "honorable" Clans), any victory they win has already been tainted by the very thing they Abjured the IS Clans for. Their capability may be there, and that's a big if at this point, but the moral superiority they're touting has become a bit of a joke. But I suppose that just proves Nietzsche correct. And what BT faction *isn't* a raging hypocrite?
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Yep, the beauty of battletech; Say one thing and do the other.
Ultimately the Clans have become victims of their own creation. Star Adders and homeworld clans will fall victim to themselves. Makes for great story lines, especially when penned by Mr Ghostbear.
.....Ghostbear.....Green Ghosts.....wonder if there is a connection there..... :D
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Here's an interesting thought. To me, anyway.
The Adders believed as of 3085 that a renewed invasion was "another decade or two away". Assuming that they use the Imperio as a test run (because using the Hansa is nonsensical; it'd be like going to the Special Olympics to train for the actual Olympics), what's up with the delay?
I know that OOC, it's because none of this was fleshed out before the current timeline was already out there, but what's the IC reason gonna be? Could something have happened to delay it? Could they have fallen to internal squabbling as the Clans almost invariably seem to do given enough time?
Or could it be that the Home Clans *are* responsible for the Blackout, which they did in order to set the Inner Sphere aflame, and also to cover their tracks as they slipped around the IS to hit it from the rimward side, or even slip into themultitude of uninhabited/lost systems during a time when early warning, not to mention cohesion, was lost with the HPGs?
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What if all the hundreds of light years of dead worlds past the Barrens actually serves to be a buffer between the Clans, the Imperio and Hansa and whoever else is up there (We know you are there, Green Ghosts or whoever you are! Speak up and quit ganking everyone's toys!) and the growing neighborhood of realms coreward and antispinward of the IS? The Aquila Rift would help to continue that "wall" scything sort of diagonally across the whole map, though it's majorly gaped. There's all kinds of ways this could go.
Like in Nicholas Kerensky's time and after, a few generations turns into many, I would imagine. The Homies not called Star Adder were all beat to crap. The Hansa may have more to them than we know, too. They have enough planets to draw some resources from. If they could find and pay or make some kind of pact with the right allies, they could be a lot more dangerous than the last time we were allowed to see what they were up to. They had distance and potential all wrapped up in a nice star cluster oasis. And they were suddenly aware that they needed to do something soon, because the Sea Foxes painted their little red wagon pretty good, and I bet they found out that us Fox Folk are the "nicest" ones. :)
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Or could it be that the Home Clans *are* responsible for the Blackout, which they did in order to set the Inner Sphere aflame, and also to cover their tracks as they slipped around the IS to hit it from the rimward side, or even slip into themultitude of uninhabited/lost systems during a time when early warning, not to mention cohesion, was lost with the HPGs?
I keep wondering this too, but I also wonder if this is supposed to be something to distract us all, taking our eye off of the various wizards behind curtains.
But it could be so. Can't write it off. The Society might have been up to more than we have been shown in sources.
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The Homeclans might have decided that it is better to build their own version of the Star League outside of the IS because the IS is so tainted and not worth the efforts.
So instead of using their resources for preparing a new invasion, they have begun to explore new star systems, conquering existing known (and yet unkown) deep periphery nations (as to Hanseatic League), propagate the Way of the Clans and increasing the numbers of Clanpeople.
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I always see discussions whether or not it is possible a new Invasion can be successfull. Or if it is likely that the homeworld Clans will act united. If the Technology can improve. But i've not seen a reason why the homeworlds should invade again.
Don't ask how and when or where - i'm interested on a why.
There was one common Goal for the first Invasion. Reestablish the Star League and come home. There was hope for that Goals. But now ? I think that hope is gone.
The Star League failed once and for all. At least in the Inner Sphere there is no hope for the League between all those tainted People. And home ? Where is the home of the "home"world Clans ?
But when hope is gone, what is left ? Hate i say. The eternal will to burn the taint. Hate and revenge. So any Kind of new Invasion will not have the Goal to come home and rebuild anything, but it will be the final Trial of Annihilation on the Inner Sphere.
With that Goal in mind and the available Technology from the old SL and the Society i can see a BattleTech Drone War coming. Large fleets of drone warships starting orbital bombardments and dropping armies of drone mechs.
The ressources should be available in the open space. Somewhere should be some asteroids to get the raw material. Factories are available anyway. And with a drone army you don't Need to have that numbers of highly trained warriors.
And one more good Point on that Scenario. BT will finally have a clear line of good and bad.
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With that Goal in mind and the available Technology from the old SL and the Society i can see a BattleTech Drone War coming. Large fleets of drone warships starting orbital bombardments and dropping armies of drone mechs.
The ressources should be available in the open space. Somewhere should be some asteroids to get the raw material. Factories are available anyway. And with a drone army you don't Need to have that numbers of highly trained warriors.
This might be coming from WoB, but never from the Homeclans.
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Never say never ;)
But to be honest - i don't see another reason to invade. That said, i see more reason for them to stay at home and live their own life.
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Both current ideologies espouse cleansing the Inner Sphere with fire. I think the motivation is to remove the taint. Eventually, an idea of what exactly the root of the taint is will stick and that will become the "why." Might be burning Terra, might be waxing Alaric's dirty blood and Wolves. Maybe the RotS is really run by the blood/Wolverines.
I think the Hansa is probably tougher than the Imperio. They already killed an Adder warship. Their naval assets are serious. If I'm the Adder khan I'm delegating that deal to the Cobras. Last we heard from both those places their combined might is probably no match for the 3090 homeworlds, 5-10 years later it's probably worse. Heck the Imperio was still fighting itself last we heard. Who knows what else the Coyotes could do to less with them.
I think the Adders may be a red herring too. 3153 the homeworlds roll up led by a Stone Lion Ilkhan... you heard it here first. :)
All this speculation is cool, WoR really made these factions relevant again. I initially thought the blackout of the area was cool since it was orders by Ben Rome. But now it looks like he's on a hiatus.
I wonder if the storyline is even planned out. I'm asking the developers.
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I do not think that the WoR has made the Homeclans relevant.
They have so far never been relevant, the WoR just killed a number of them, devastated their military and then put them behind the curtain of silence again. It was a great story arc, but it was finished.
They might get used as a stopgap in a greater story arc, but I do not see them being an major player. :(
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Did the Hansa kill the Pegasus and those two Adder Clusters, or did they stay behind to further Adds interests? WoRS doesn't say they're destroyed, simply that the Adders returned without them. I agree it's likely they were destroyed, though.
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I think both clusters were not viable units after fighting and were either destroyed or disbanded due losses suffered (survivors moved to other units).
However, we do not know if they were at 100% strength at the beginning of this operation.
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That's what I was thinking too, but I thought I'd toss that out there so it's been said, lol.
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:)
And the destruction the warship - if you as writer does have an opportunity to get a warship destroyed, used it! ;D
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Did the Hansa kill the Pegasus and those two Adder Clusters, or did they stay behind to further Adds interests? WoRS doesn't say they're destroyed, simply that the Adders returned without them. I agree it's likely they were destroyed, though.
It's worded "the loss of" I believe. That's followed with something about underestimating the Hansa's aero forces. Probably gone. Though it seems it was just a probing mission.
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It's worded "the loss of" I believe. That's followed with something about underestimating the Hansa's aero forces. Probably gone. Though it seems it was just a probing mission.
Just found that reference. I was reading the wrong section. Oops!
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Just found that reference. I was reading the wrong section. Oops!
Here's another thought. There are a lot of loose ends to tie up. Ghosts, Wolverines, WoB, homeclans. What if the homeworld clans expand and conquer the Hansa/Imperio and a swath toward the old RWR. They could encounter the surviving Wolverines, Ghosts, etc. What if they find something there that changes their invasion plan. What if the clans find the Wolverines or someone that can tell them the Wolverine side of the story? What if the homeworlds buy into the conspiracy theory and decide Nicky K was manipulating them? They may give up on Terra and keep their focus on the periphery.
What if we suddenly have a large military state run by the home clans covering a quarter of the periphery? They no longer care about Nicky's vision but they are angry. It would be a twist that could tie up a couple loose ends and launch a new storyline.
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That they might form a new powerful periphery nation is one of my BT dreams.
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I think it's plausible.
My three hopes for the Adders:
Previous, they become a massive isolationist periphery realm
They punch everybody in their way in the face and take Terra, then burn it but conquer the majority of the IS.
The Wolves are on the cusp of winning the Ilclanship, they have Terra, the homeclans show up suddenly from hidding and burn Terra from space with the Wolves on it then simply disappear.
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So....
If the Republic controls Terra, and they are really a front for the Blakists, who are really just Clan Wolverine....
Doesn't that make Clan Wolverine IlClan? :D
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Nope! They ceased to be Clan when the Trial of Annihilation was imposed. Done and done!
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... the homeclans show up suddenly from hidding and burn Terra from space with the Wolves on it then simply disappear.
can the Falcons be there too?
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Previous, they become a massive isolationist periphery realm
I really would prefer this.
IMHO the Inner Sphere as lone playground is going to be very boring.
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So....
If the Republic controls Terra, and they are really a front for the Blakists, who are really just Clan Wolverine....
Doesn't that make Clan Wolverine IlClan? :D
That would be a heck of a way to start the Ilclan book. Walls come down, RotS announces they are the descendants of Clan Wolverine and they hold Terra. Every other clan sphere and home FLIPS OUT!!!
You might even see a reconciliation between the two councils... nothing can unite the clans again like the Unnamed!
Yes Fletch, the Falcons can be there too!!! We will even let you have a shot at them. I would love to see the Horses and Foxes somehow join the Homeworld side, it would be a great twist.
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You mean when the Horses and the Lions face off, charge at each other, stop in the middle of the field and crack open a cold beer ^-^
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You mean when the Horses and the Lions face off, charge at each other, stop in the middle of the field and crack open a cold beer ^-^
Much cold beer.
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You mean when the Horses and the Lions face off, charge at each other, stop in the middle of the field and crack open a cold beer ^-^
Lion: "Tainted Surrat, wait dude nice flames on your Epona!"
Horse: "yeah dude, uh so what is a stone lion anyway?"
Lion: "it's like a small tiger that lives in packs on some rocks"
Horse: "that's cool, hey sibkin, ever had this Inner Sphere beer"
Lion: "Hold please"
Lion: "hey star colonel, the horses just challenged to a trial of beer chugging. The Snakes cool with that?"
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Pretty sure the Lions won't be asking the Adders for permission. ;)
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Pretty sure the Adders would drink the others under the table [cheers]
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Their fans, maybe. :P
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Their fans, maybe. :P
If any clan was willing to look the other way when to came to a little boozing it's the Adders. Ok, probably not. Adder warriors probably have more interest in Patton, Rommel, and Truscott's writings in their spare time.
We rule all in warfare, but being clan SLDF means you are mind of boring, spend all your time kicking the crap out of people or practicing kicking the crap out of people.
The Lions do all the drinking. You heard it here first, Clan Stone Lion are the boozers of the BTU. Until they canonize something else it's official!!!
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I'd say that it could go either way for the Adders. On the one hand, they seem to have a pretty professional and regimented military even for a Clan, and Clanners by and large aren't big on polluting their bodies. On the other hand, the Adders also have an easy fraternity with each other and Clan warriors are romantics in their own way anyway.
The Lions, eh? I could see it.
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The Lions do all the drinking. You heard it here first, Clan Stone Lion are the boozers of the BTU. Until they canonize something else it's official!!!
At least they are not drinking the CoolAid 8)
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Besides non-Clan WMD, what new technology do you think could be developed by the Homeclans for giving them an edge fighting against the vast superior numbers of the IS?
The IS got Tripods and Quadvees as new unit types, what might the Homeclans develop?
I hope, that they might get OmniMechs more modular (e.g. making engines, cockpit, gyros modular), get Mechs`movement profile better (better engine-movement ratio), improving Human-machine-interface (as to Machina Domini but without negative traits), improving armor and internal structure.
Making Protomechs to Omni-Protomechs would be great an improvement.
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The clans biggest advantage to me has always been speed and range. I'd like to see longer range heavy hitting weapons, or better maybe just weapons that extend the short and medium brackets. I would love to see the clans pull out some new engine tech that allows even faster machines. If your 5/8 heavy suddenly can go 6/9 for the same weight engine, you have arrived at what I'm looking for. Viable 5/8 assaults would be devastating to the Inner Sphere as well; think Blood Asp or Warhawk but the only change is the engine tech, same pod space and armor. Or you could armor something like the Osteon and move 4/6. Those types of mechs would be very hard to put down.
I want to see a clan Heavy PPC from the Adders. And I would like to see even more flexibility built into iATMs.
Omni-protos??? Yes please, nice idea.
Most importantly (since I want the Adders to take over the Inner Sphere) I want to see a big fleet of warships. Leviathan Primes all around for the homeworlders. The one thing the IS does not have anymore is big warship fleets. The ability to assert naval dominance and ortillery a world is important.
Cobra aero. I want to see steps forward in aero phenotype and tech. The Cobras are prime for this.
NOVA CEWS next generation. How do you make it better? Not entirely sure but making it useable across all unit types and maybe expanding it to work with a star instead of the Society base 3 would be a start.
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IS Mech Pilot - "What do you mean they have a Nova CEWS link to their warships!!!!"
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IS Mech Pilot - "What do you mean they have a Nova CEWS link to their warships!!!!"
Scary!
Homeclanner: I bid one point of mechs and its associated transport to take this world
Drac Commander: Hahahaha, the Dragon will eat you alive
An hour later...
Drac Commander: So where's your transport? You appear to have hot dropped. How did you get here?
Homeclanner: Leviathan
Drac: Sorry, come again? I didn't understand that last commu.... AAAAAHHHH!!!! Where'd the capital go?
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Given the idea that there might be be a fleet of Leviathan warships, I think TPTB might use this opportunity to introduce certain superweapons to destroy them at once.
(Had to think of Star Trek: Voyager, when the crew met spezies 8472 the first time. Just one ship had destroyed a great fleet of Borg cubes without efforts.)
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That might take care of the "how do you fight the sphere without coming in contact with them" problem. Although I doubt anyone with a fleet of planet destroying ships will live long in the BTU.
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I saw this neat picture on deviantArt and I thought I'd share it with my frenemies.
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Thank you.
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That might take care of the "how do you fight the sphere without coming in contact with them" problem. Although I doubt anyone with a fleet of planet destroying ships will live long in the BTU.
Think of a fleet of Leviathan Transports, Leviathan factory ships, Leviathan battleship, Leviathan carrier ...
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I saw this neat picture on deviantArt and I thought I'd share it with my frenemies.
Someone here had that as their avatar a while back, I wondered where it came from. Despite all that went down in WoR I still really like that thing. Like it even better when you rip out the AC and put in a gauss rifle. I keep looking at and thinking about the Warwolf and it strikes me as a mix between the Timberwolf and Burrock. 5/8, big armor, and look at the H...
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I would like to know if the Star Adder invented an Omnimech in the Golden Century. AFAIK the first Omni mentioned as being an Adder design is ... the Adder.
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I would like to know if the Star Adder invented an Omnimech in the Golden Century. AFAIK the first Omni mentioned as being an Adder design is ... the Adder.
That stuff is always so vague. I've tried to figure out what the Adders build in different eras and while I can get a good picture of secondline mechs, the omnis are less clear. It looks like for sure they build (or built pre-Reaving):
Adder
Mad Dog
Blood Asp
WoRS states they are building the Septicemia but it does not say where.
It is possible they also build/built:
Ebon Jaguar
Stormcrow
Gargoyle
There is certainly some speculation on my part with these but they have ready access to them and don't trade much with the people who have them. These are three VERY prolific designs so it's possible they just have a bunch of them.
I doubt they built an omni before the Adder since they were late to the party getting omni tech. Though we know they had a good number of Lupus omnis since they converted 100 of them to Hellfires in the first year. I guess it's possible they built the Lupus at one time.
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IIRC in FM: CC is written that due their bitter fiighting with the Mongooses the Adders could captured Omnimech technology, built their own and then used them in a devastating counter assault.
So their might developed their own early model.
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I don't see why they wouldn't have. The Adders have long held the resources to be able to do so, so I could see them having built their own homegrown design besides the Adder early on. I suppose the Adder is just proof that it was the most viable and long-lasting of anything they'd created themselves. Weird though that it's so light, given their long-held preference for mobile heavies and assaults.
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I don't see why they wouldn't have. The Adders have long held the resources to be able to do so, so I could see them having built their own homegrown design besides the Adder early on. I suppose the Adder is just proof that it was the most viable and long-lasting of anything they'd created themselves. Weird though that it's so light, given their long-held preference for mobile heavies and assaults.
They like over gunned lights and mediums too, so it a least makes sense. But I agree, a resource heavy clan that basically values a 5/8 heavy over all else should probably have designed their own. It may just be more practical for them not to though, it's easier to trade for them or since the Jaguars died to build Mad Dogs on Huntress. I still suspect the Adders build more than three omni mechs, at least before the Reavings really got crazy. Probably build the general 3050 stuff; Stormcrows and Gargoyles would be my first guess.
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Given that the Adders know the importance of logistics I think that they do not produce so many different models.
I think preferences for only few models (Adder, Grendel, Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Ebon Jaguar, Warhawk, Blood Asp, Dire Wolf) might help to slim down the logistic chains to an optimum.
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Yeah I'm good with that mix. Though we can speculate their Naga facility is the one mentioned in WoRS as being retooled to produce Septicemia since there is one on Arcadia that is not mentioned as being destroyed.
I would like to see Osteons sans NOVA (or the next generation version) join the list.
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I would rather see a complete new serie of units made by the Homeclans with some new technology. :)
As WoB did with their Celestial Omnimech, Spectral Omnifighters and Demon Battlearmor series - state-of-the-art.
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With so many years in canon for the coreward side of the storyline to catch up, there would most certainly have to be mostly new Omnis and sweet BattleMechs rolling from the Homeworlds. Possibly new protos and BA and ASF, and who known, with the Stone Lions in the mix carrying on old Hell's Horses doctrine, maybe lots of new vehicles. It's a chance to do some really awesome things here - in possibility.
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So hope I.
Maybe six-legged Mechs?
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So hope I.
Maybe six-legged Mechs?
I'm more interested in next level weapons tech. The Society was crazy but I bet they had some sweet prototypes laying around.
I would love to see an Adder lead society with a homogenized military. Maybe only 8-10 active omnis in the homeworlds, 2 per class. Maybe clan improved JJ's (lighter) and a clan heavy PPC is a must
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Given logistic concern for the maybe-invasion they should develop new energy weapons.
Due the ominous new 3250 tech I wonder what the Homeclans might contribute to.
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Something occurred to me. Usually in BTech, when a faction grows much more powerful than the others in it's theater, it's often being set up for a major fall (see Federated Commonwealth, also to a lesser extent Clans Wolf and Smoke Jaguar). Anyone think this may happen to the Adders?
I could potentially forsee something happening like the Warden/Crusader split the wolves suffered, only this time being Bastion/Aggressor. they already have Bastion leadership working to keep down younger Aggressor ristars.
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If they unbalance the game, they will be re-adjusted. This is why the warship fleets had to get blasted to smithereens.
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The War of Reaving and supplemental both paint a picture of the Adders wanting to lead and help the other clans, not dominate them. Yeah the Adders want to mold the future but they are not pressing enough to cause too much animosity. I doubt we see the other clans beat them down.
Honestly, the Adders lurking in the black as the leading force is scarier than them not being there. They've proven to be quite competent at planning and executing warfare. They provide a pretty strong plot device.
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The War of Reaving and supplemental both paint a picture of the Adders wanting to lead and help the other clans, not dominate them.
What!? I know this is the Adder fan thread, but that is just ludicrous. They have consistently manipulated the other Homeworld Clans to ensure their supremacy. They betrayed the Steel Vipers, backed the continued existence of the Coyotes, outright murdered the Blood Spirits, and invented a new Clan just to avoid having to deal with the Hell's Horses question. They're interested in power, no more, no less, and the writing makes that absolutely clear.
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What!? I know this is the Adder fan thread, but that is just ludicrous. They have consistently manipulated the other Homeworld Clans to ensure their supremacy. They betrayed the Steel Vipers, backed the continued existence of the Coyotes, outright murdered the Blood Spirits, and invented a new Clan just to avoid having to deal with the Hell's Horses question. They're interested in power, no more, no less, and the writing makes that absolutely clear.
I never said they didn't want power. They want to lead the clans, that should imply wanting power. But the catch is they want to lead the clanS, not be the only clan. I would argue letting the Coyotes live pretty blatantly shows they are not trying to absorb everyone else, it would have been easy to do. They very easily could have absorbed the Horses andleft it at that but instead created another clan. They are stated several places as stockpiling their extra production to trade to other clans later. They have promoted and supported the entire rebuilding effort. If they wanted to have absolute power Bannacek could have remained Ilkhan. The Adders have always had one driving purpose, unite the clans and return as the SLDF. The Vipers had to die, that's been clear for a while. The Spirits wouldn't play ball no matter how many chances they had. I do think the bombardment of York was excessive, and also really did not fit with the rest of the story.
The Adders want to lead, leaders have a vision. It's that simple.
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Have you actually read the books? And more than just any Star Adder in-character stuff? If you truly got that impression about the Clan from those books, then clearly the authors have tragically failed to make the writing accessible enough.
Clan Star Adder are not the heroes of the Wars of Reaving. They're the victors. If you were speaking from an in-character Clanner persepctive and saying, "well, they won, so they were right" then I could nod my head and move on. But to say they have anything other than opportunistic motivations is patently ridiculous. If they're so concerned about the good of the Clans and eliminating the "taint" then why the hell is there still a Clan Coyote but not Steel Viper, why Cloud Cobra but not Blood Spirit?
They have found themselves in the position of being able to dictate their own interpretation of Nicky K's lunacy to three lesser powers - powers that only still exist because Clan Star Adder sees some use for them. That's fine, it's realistic for a militaristic police state to want to dominate its neighbors, but it's certainly not out of altruism.
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Then why not just take over? Yeah I've read the books and I understand them quite well. My bias is towards the Adders for sure. But there are too many times when the Adders could have done the things you are saying but did not. Their vision is to lead the clans. Yeah they whacked a clan that wouldn't fall in line. But if the goal was to just take over then why didn't they just take over? They could have.
Horses/Lions: no one would have cared if the Adders just absorbed them, if they were out to just take over they would not have created the Lions.
Coyotes: the Adders could have called for an absorption and handled quickly either before or after they took down the Vipers
Cobras: this one is tricky, but if the Adders play the previous two differently then they are the biggest fish with only one enemy. It would be a tough fight but the Adders would win.
There you go, the Adders take over. It would not be that hard to do. You're ignoring the parts in the books where the Adders are helping rebuild the other clans. Is the Adders motivation for that to have strong allies to lead, sure. But they are not putting a gun to anyone's head. Ok, actually they are with the blockade, I'll cede that point, they will kill you if you run the blockade.
To assume there are heroes in the War of Reaving is foolish. Pretty much involved have blood on their hands. The Adders had no shortage of that. Their motivations are not opportunistic. They may have seized on current events to get their way but the Adder plans to unite and lead the clans have been in the works for at least a century. They do have a playbook that each khan passes on to the next, I'm sure the jist of it is how to lead the clans.
It's the clans, if you want to lead you have to win. But you're insinuating the Adders are ruling with an iron fist post Reaving when it does not appear that way.
Also, I don't particularly care for your comment about the writing not being accessible. It's a veiled insult on my intelligence. The way a reader views one faction or another based on canon will very based on the reader's perspective of the universe.
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What!? I know this is the Adder fan thread, but that is just ludicrous. They have consistently manipulated the other Homeworld Clans to ensure their supremacy. They betrayed the Steel Vipers, backed the continued existence of the Coyotes, outright murdered the Blood Spirits, and invented a new Clan just to avoid having to deal with the Hell's Horses question. They're interested in power, no more, no less, and the writing makes that absolutely clear.
They are interested in leading people/other Clans, not only in having power. They are convinced of their convictions, but they need an audience for teaching them.
Imho they are very vain.
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The two things are one and the same, Gaiiten. They are so arrogant and convinced of their own moral superiority (the key word here is "superiority") that they've convinced themselves that everyone who doesn't see things as they do is wrong. That doesn't make them any less power-hungry; if anything, it makes them worse.
Also, the Adders haven't assumed total control of the other Clans for practical reasons, not altruistic ones. They're still very much exercising absolute power and control, but doing so in a way that preserves as much of the Homies' ability to wage war against the Inner Sphere as possible without pissing off the few Clans that are left.
So ColBosch is absolutely correct.
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But they are not exercising absolute power and control. There is clear evidence of them trying to be hands off as much as they can. They certainly are in charge at the moment. If they wanted absolute power they would have taken it.
As for moral superiority, please show me a clan who does not think their way is the best way. Because the Adders way involves the clans working together does not make them arrogant. 70 years of watching the clans tear themselves apart might kick start the Adders into trying to preserve the society as a whole and not just look to their own clan. I will say I don't agree with all their methods. I still don't get the sacking of York. The Spirits were actually starting to be a little more clan again and that move did not make any sense when it happened. Granted the Spirits took their ball and went home when people stopped doing things their way.
There's another angle here too. N'buta and Bannacek operated very differently. They had differing ideas on how to lead the clans. If N'buta survived the Reaving the homeworlds would already have invaded. The change in leaders does show a change in strategy.
So what specifically have the Adders done to show absolute control?
They blew up a Cobra warship for getting to close to the blockade
What else?
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Self-appointed arbiters of what is and isn't the Way of the Clans. That's almost a direct quote.
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Self-appointed arbiters of what is and isn't the Way of the Clans. That's almost a direct quote.
Not much different than the Jags, Falcons, or Wolves tried to be. But none of them smacked around the little guys or out right obliterated their rival. If I was arrogant I'd just say the Adders better understand how to lead the clans, though I think it's more they know better how be patient and capitalize at the right time.
I still think they're not the evil overlord you think.
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I said nothing of the sort. Don't speak for me, please. (No malice intended, cold1.)
I do, however, believe that they are absolutely self-interested, and have no proprietary feelings towards the other Clans beyond molding them in the image they want to see.
Are the other Clans different? Of course not. But it's disingenuous to think that the Adders are somehow nobler or more altruistic then any other faction in this game. Just because they believe their own hype doesn't make it so.
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Meh, we're not going to agree. I believe the Adders truly wanted the clans to win together historically. Their founder planned Klondike and the clans won together. No one listened to them before Revival and it failed. That may have been the catalyst to the more Machiavellian scheming.
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I can see where you're coming from. They're methodical, pragmatic, adaptable to a large degree, and have ever played the long game. They were also pretty vocal about their belief that the Clans had to truly unite in the spirit of cooperation to make the Crusader dream a reality.
The thing of it is, the Adders decided along the way that they were going to be the ones to make that happen. They've become convinced that their way is the only way that's going to work. I can see how they'd come to that belief, given the somewhat-predictable outcome of Operation Revival and the idiocy and insanity of the Invasion Era. They must've been very frustrated and felt their hands were tied because they were not included, and therein they decided that theirs were the only hands capable of guiding the ship.
I don't believe that after everything from Revival to the Great Refusal, the Adders weren't completely sold on themselves. Their entry in FM:U was decidedly more self-aggrandizing, and the leadup to the WoR was the perfect time for them to score themselves the ilKhanship over a new invasion. But the Vipers happened (not to mention everything else going on with the Clans), and they wisely stepped aside to play kingmaker and let the Bloody ilKhan take the reins.
Then, after letting the Vipers do the heavy lifting while they pursued their own goals, they turned on him when things were more or less under control, let Andrews hang himself and his Clan, and came out of things on top in the Homeworlds. They also dealt with the one Clan that they had a blood feud with and knew would never stand by their side, and snuffed them out. I personally abhor that action but absolutely see why the Adders did it and would've done the same if I were thr Adder Khan.
And now the Adders are using the considerable military and economic supremacy to shepherd and strengthen (and watchdog) what few "true" Clans are left, and have swept away the last opposition to their long-held desire to lead the Clans in a proper invasion of the Inner Sphere to create a new Star League. And they can ensure this time that such an invasion will be conducted wisely without repeating the mistakes of the past.
So...it appears I've talked myself into seeing things the way a Star Adder might see them. Wonders never cease.
P.S., not using Alpha, Beta and Gamma Galaxies to Annihilate the Spirits was lame. I thought it'd be cool to see Connery MacLeod lead his Scourge of the Highlanders against such a strongly-Scots-influenced Clan.
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I do not see the Adders
They lead by example and IMHO, I see them being traumatized due the WoR. They think because they acted far too late and irresolute the WoR went as it did and so the Adders had to do the horrors they did. If they acted earlier, much might not have been happened.
Before the WoR they were moe like theorists, talking much about what shlould have been done and must be done, but did little. This has changed.
In the sourcebooks I think it is very clear that they now follow the premise "Never again we will stand aside".
There are certain limits the other Clans (and their own Clan members) might act, but moving over the red line, you have to pay the butcher`s bill. There is competition among the Homeclans now (the Adders actively motivated the other Clans to compete with them and being the Big Fish, they are in the middle of competition. Something very Clan-like
And because they are the victor of the Wor, they can make the rules. Their way has proven the true one.
It is a pity we do not know if this has been successful or not. In WoR Supplemental we are told some modest improvements a certain level of reconstruction, resettlement and conquest of new territorities. And even cooperation among the Clans.
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So given Ben's comments about the Star Adders:-
Actually....considering what I have in the works...the Adders are...
Smugly ambitious.
Should the Adder fanbase be happy or worried or both?
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So given Ben's comments about the Star Adders:-
Should the Adder fanbase be happy or worried or both?
Both...
Happy to finally see confirmation that the homeworld clans are still being developed.
Worried:
1.) After WoR anyone has to be worried when Ben makes that kind of remark
2.) The comment was prompted by posters saying the Adders were too perfect
3.) The Adders crotch kicks have been limited in scope, they might be due. And as we discovered with WoR Mr. Rome knows how to deliver some serious crotch-kickery
Now we have to start thinking about when we see them and how. Will they show up in the Inner Sphere and be part of the main story (I hope) or do they get a separate product like WoR that deals just with the periphery. Basically, we get to worry about cyborgs and asteroid launching warships vs striking Wolves and burning Terra.
I think WoRS painted a picture of the homeworlds as doing much better than many people here think. They were moving rapidly in the right direction. Hearing the Adders are smugly ambitious leads me to believe they have big plans.
The more I think about that comment "smugly ambitious" the more I think that sort of defines the Adders from the Jaguar/Mongoose deal until now. If Ben had said I've always painted the Adders as smugly ambitious. Frankly I would have thought that was a nice summation.
Unfortunately the manner in which it came in will cause some fan boy angst on my part.
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Unfortunately the manner in which it came in will cause some fan boy angst on my part.
Don't expect any sympathy here, Adder. >:D
(On a serious note, you're one of the very few Adder fan boys that I enjoy discourse with. I've found my interaction with the Adder fan base to be quite grating until you came along.)
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Don't expect any sympathy here, Adder. >:D
(On a serious note, you're one of the very few Adder fan boys that I enjoy discourse with. I've found my interaction with the Adder fan base to be quite grating until you came along.)
Yeah well, I'm a Clan fan first and an Adder fan second. It probably helps that I really do like the Spirits, they just get a tad too Emo for me sometimes.
It's natural that the fans of factions that hate each other fail to see eye to eye. There are probably a good deal more Spirit fans than Adder fans on this board as well, so you have backup.
Oh and also, no sympathy expected. If the Adders maintain the faction personality they always had and end up dead, it will only be believable if it is epic.
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After WoR we know that what ever happens it will be a case of hold on and enjoy the ride. I would be happy to see the Adders decide the Falcons must die and execute Order 66. Of course while that is happening the Horses and Stone Lions have a reunion BBQ and break open a few kegs.
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After WoR we know that what ever happens it will be a case of hold on and enjoy the ride. I would be happy to see the Adders decide the Falcons must die and execute Order 66. Of course while that is happening the Horses and Stone Lions have a reunion BBQ and break open a few kegs.
I won't be surprised if the Lions and Horses reunite under Adder leadership. Not surprised if that was not the plan all along. Hey it's the Adders and Horses, if any two clans could get together and run a game like that, it's them.
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I can see the Lions being distracted by the local QuadVe dealership.
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I can see the Lions being distracted by the local QuadVe dealership.
You're obsessed brother
Crazy Horses love tanks so much they made mechs out of them. Kind of like Utes I guess. When you love trucks but you need the performance of a 6+ liter V8. ;)
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I won't be surprised if the Lions and Horses reunite under Adder leadership. Not surprised if that was not the plan all along. Hey it's the Adders and Horses, if any two clans could get together and run a game like that, it's them.
If any Clan is bound to prostitute itself out to the Adders, it'll be the Horses, since that's one of their defining traits. :)
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See fun ride, will ride it!
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A snake riding a horse. Something pretty damned primal about that imagery.
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A snake riding a horse. Something pretty damned primal about that imagery.
Indeed:
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Herpeto-Horse-bookmark-411531975
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Nice artwork. A sort of medusa horse. O0
Anyway, I had a question I wanted to ask here on the Star Adder thread so as not to drag the others further off course than they have been running:
How do the Star Adders fans feel about the news of their Clan probably not really being a White Hat at all?
Not that I ever subscribed to the Adder White Hat notion myself, I figured they were up to something very gray or darker shaded. But I know other players in the community have said that they view them as such. So I thought I'd ask. The Brett Andrews banner made me ask it.
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It makes me wonder how the Hell's Horses would feel if they saw an animal like that.
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Nice artwork. A sort of medusa horse. O0
Anyway, I had a question I wanted to ask here on the Star Adder thread so as not to drag the others further off course than they have been running:
How do the Star Adders fans feel about the news of their Clan probably not really being a White Hat at all?
Not that I ever subscribed to the Adder White Hat notion myself, I figured they were up to something very gray or darker shaded. But I know other players in the community have said that they view them as such. So I thought I'd ask. The Brett Andrews banner made me ask it.
There was a lot of "white hat Adder" talk before and after WoR came out. I was in the white hat camp before WoR, and caught a lot of flak for it (mostly from the Spirits fans around here). But after WoR it became obvious they were no more good guy than any other clan. They are better than the Vipers but, just barely. They proved that they will do what ever it takes to accomplish their goals.
They are winners, people hate winners. It makes sense that they win a lot, but that does not matter. The problem is they win by politicking, ortillery, and acting like a military... not the way clans are supposed to behave.
I honestly hope the Adders (and friends) do come to the Inner Sphere. Then the Adders have no reason to be the covert bad guy. The writer doesn't have the handcuff of making them try to keep the hat white. I'd love nothing more than a new invasion where the Adders plan and think like Adders and unleash the full clan ear machine. Let them be the new Jaguars (but still let them plan and fight like Adders).
The Adders are not as bad as they get portrayed on this forum, but they are not good guys for sure.
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I have nothing against them. I hope they get more fans.
I can get behind most factions. The Adders just bore me.
Give me blakists any day of the week.
Having recently studied the vipers more I can honestly say I do not care for them either way and thats a problem.
I genuinely dislike the Jade Falcons and ironically that makes me like them quite a bit. I do not love playing them but Iam happy they are here.
I have a fear that if the adders are the boogeymen we are making them out to be I will still be bored with them.
Give them a brett andrews or a malvina.
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Part of what prompted me to ask was remembering how the Smoke Jaguars were heels, or portrayed as such when needed.
The Adders have a shot at being so much more than just heels, or even mustache twirlers, but a dangerous nemesis. Like their Remembrance lines. And they have the time to do it, if the time jump comes into play.
But for now we have smugly ambitious to go on. That alone provides a wealth of possibilities for the imagination.
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The Adders never wore the white hat because none of the Clans have ever worn the white hat.
They are winners, people hate winners. It makes sense that they win a lot, but that does not matter. The problem is they win by politicking, ortillery, and acting like a military... not the way clans are supposed to behave.
Saying that people hate the Adders because they're winners is a simplistic way of putting it. A more accurate way to put it is that people hate the Adders because they have no weaknesses (every faction in this game has a weakness of some sort) and because on the rare few occasions where they've failed to do something, they've without exception come out on top.
To say that the Adders aren't as bad as they're portrayed on this forum is accurate, though. They're worse.
And why is this "smugly ambitious" thing news? The Adders have ALWAYS been smugly ambitious. All one has to do is read their Field Manual entries for evidence of that. Especially FM:U, that entry was especially self-aggrandizing.
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I think they are just happy to know that the homeworlds exist (even if its an april fools joke)
I for one look forward to the return of the coyotes. I hope they are still native american techno cultists.
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The Adders never wore the white hat because none of the Clans have ever worn the white hat.
Wolves in Exile wear white hats all the live long day. But their Clanhood gets questioned constantly for it. ;)
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Wolves in Exile wear white hats all the live long day. But their Clanhood gets questioned constantly for it. ;)
They aren't Clan, though. They were Abjured. So their argument is invalid. ;)
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I trial. Therefore I clan.
_ unaccounted
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I trial. Therefore I clan.
So I guess that makes every power that took part in the Great Refusal a Clan as well? ;)
(I was speaking strictly from a legal standpoint. The Exiled Wolves are no longer Clan, thus why none of the other Clans recognize them as such. Ditto the Nova Cats. After that point, especially with the expulsion of the invading Clans and the formation of the Council of Six, that definition becomes a good deal muddier. But pretty much every Clan, invader or Homeworld, agrees on this point.)
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@Tassa, you gotta think like an Adder... scary thought
I really don't think the Adders are evil, they ain't good guys either. I also don't think they are as vanilla as people here say. They do win and stay a float because they are cunning and strategic in all facets of the universe. I know it's boring for a faction to not have weaknesses but it's the reasons they are so solid that make them interesting to me.
And yes, the Adders have been smugly ambitious since before REVIVAL. I truly believe their long term plan was manipulating an all out total war invasion of the Inner Sphere.
And yes, I am elated to hear the Adders still exist in the story and that we will see them again, eventually.
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@Tassa, you gotta think like an Adder... scary thought
You mean, think like a manipulative, hypocritical, self-serving human being? Not so scary, or difficult, at all. :))
I really don't think the Adders are evil, they ain't good guys either. I also don't think they are as vanilla as people here say. They do win and stay a float because they are cunning and strategic in all facets of the universe. I know it's boring for a faction to not have weaknesses but it's the reasons they are so solid that make them interesting to me.
Every faction in this game has drawbacks, which is by design, in order to keep some sort of balance. The Star Adders lack any such drawbacks, which of course is going to draw ire from people...especially those players who have had to pay the price for tha, like us Blood Spirit players. ;)
And yes, the Adders have been smugly ambitious since before REVIVAL. I truly believe their long term plan was manipulating an all out total war invasion of the Inner Sphere.
Agreed. I also agree with their outlook on that as well. It's the only way the Clans will ever have a hope of achieving Kerensky's twisted dream.
And yes, I am elated to hear the Adders still exist in the story and that we will see them again, eventually.
Meanwhile, some of us have had to find new factions if we hope to stay relevant as players in the larger community. Understand why that bothers some of us.
Honestly, if the Colleen system had gone undetected and the Spirits were left out in the Deep Periphery never to be heard from again, that would not only have been acceptable, it would've been thematically fitting and poetically just. It's what they want, after all, to be alone.
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How do the Star Adders fans feel about the news of their Clan probably not really being a White Hat at all?
Very good. They have gotten far more interesting.
They are in the interstice between Light and Darkness, they are grey ;)
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If it makes you adders feel better I like pretty much all the factions but I think the fedsuns are pretty dull too.
I like some of their leaders and the rabid foxes.. and then... ugh... the most interesting thing about them is the outback. Which is boring on purpose.
Maybe you could develop something like an autocannon addiction.
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If it makes you adders feel better I like pretty much all the factions but I think the fedsuns are pretty dull too.
I like some of their leaders and the rabid foxes.. and then... ugh... the most interesting thing about them is the outback. Which is boring on purpose.
Maybe you could develop something like an autocannon addiction.
Stanislov N'buta and Hannibal Banacek are great characters. Absalom Truscott is awesome, so what if he's smarter than you and knows that you know it.
N'buta had a building dropped on his mech and survived, like a factory. Plus, dude rides a Night Gyr, best mech ever. Boring khans ride a Dire Wolf.
Banacek; if you don't like him for his take down of Andrews then YOU are boring.
Boring clans don't have their sakhan smash the Ilkhan's face through his brain in grand council chamber. Oh, and said boring clan's sakhan does Not then turn around and tell the other clans they will now kill the former Ilkhans entire clan... and have all of them agree.
Read some of the Adder specific parts of WoR, particularly the parts after they consolidate their touman (cuz they were smarter that you monkey clan). Nothing boring about the level of hurting they put on the Society, Burrocks, and Vipers.
Bland doesn't destroy their rivals homeworld from orbit, DC can't do it, Jaguars just did a city and became baddy #1. Adders killed a planet, that ain't boring. It was so fraking mustache twirl it even made me mad...
The Adders are not boring, they are a clan with common sense that's not afraid to hit you over the head with the biggest stick in clan space.
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Boring clans don't have their sakhan smash the Ilkhan's face through his brain in grand council chamber. Oh, and said boring clan's sakhan does Not then turn around and tell the other clans they will now kill the former Ilkhans entire clan... and have all of them agree.
O0 (the Bloody ilKhan agrees, too) ;D
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O0 (the Bloody ilKhan agrees, too) ;D
I came for the big stompy robots and stayed for the elementals smashing dudes heads in with a colorful snake mask.
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How it happened*
Writer 1 -'The Khans really get reduced to wearing silly ceremonial masks?'
Writer 2 -'Yep, though one day someone will kill another with their mask'
Writer 1 - 'Cool'
* I am sure it really didn't
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How it happened*
Writer 1 -'The Khans really get reduced to wearing silly ceremonial masks?'
Writer 2 -'Yep, though one day someone will kill another with their mask'
Writer 1 - 'Cool'
* I am sure it really didn't
Didn't Vlad already do this a couple of times?
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Vlad didn't beat on a competent ilKhan.
Big distinction. ;D
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N'buta had a building dropped on his mech and survived, like a factory. Plus, dude rides a Night Gyr, best mech ever. Boring khans ride a Dire Wolf.
Vlad had that happen. Then he snapped his arm back in place and rebuilt Clan Wolf by dumpster diving.
Banacek; if you don't like him for his take down of Andrews then YOU are boring.
Vlad kills tons of dudes. I think its a tradition now when a Grand Council meets Vlad Ward kills at least one Khan. That's how you know the council is in session.
Read some of the Adder specific parts of WoR, particularly the parts after they consolidate their touman (cuz they were smarter that you monkey clan). Nothing boring about the level of hurting they put on the Society, Burrocks, and Vipers.
I read the whole book.
Honestly, I want to apologize because what I do not want to do is come into the Star Adder page and be antagonistic towards you.
What I really totally definitely never want to do is change your mind. If I come in here and say, "Clan Star Adder is boring" and you said, "You are right. I'll switch Clans" I would be mortified and crushed.
I came in and said it because I've talked about it on other boards and I do like to discuss it because its fun to discuss things on the battletech board.
Its entirely subjective whether or not the Star Adders are boring or not. If you think they are the most awesome interesting clan in battletech then that's actually true because it is your opinion.
Bland doesn't destroy their rivals homeworld from orbit, DC can't do it, Jaguars just did a city and became baddy #1. Adders killed a planet, that ain't boring. It was so fraking mustache twirl it even made me mad...
But as a parting mention Vlads destroying the Kerensky genetic depository like a magician was pretty amazing. I am glad someone turned Brett Andrews into a smear after he killed Labov. But if there is one whole pile of awesome in the Wars of Reaving sourcebook it was the Vipers.
They were so cool it killed them.
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But if there is one whole pile of awesome in the Wars of Reaving sourcebook it was the Vipers.
They were so cool it killed them.
The Adders are not boring, they are a clan with common sense that's not afraid to hit you over the head with the biggest stick in clan space.
Yep, that's for building and taking us on the ride but now it is time for a corporate takeover 8)
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@Kitsune
Convince me to switch factions??? Sorry little Shark/Fox, you're not that good of a salesman.
My post was mostly in jest, I know the Adders don't have the flavor some of the other clans do. I think WoR does some work at changing that though.
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Convince me to switch factions??? Sorry little Shark/Fox, you're not that good of a salesman.
This actually led me to an epiphany. Since my original post was saying the opposite of this. First that my making you change factions is improbable and second of all that if I had I would not be happy about it.
So at first I assumed either I wrote badly, or that there was a slight reading comprehension failure. But looking back on the recent conversations I think it is actually just a personality type clash.
If you are ever bored try out this test http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp and pm me the results. I'd be interested to see what turns up. Not sure how accurate the test is. There are lots of different ones. But it got me in one go. ;D
My post was mostly in jest, I know the Adders don't have the flavor some of the other clans do. I think WoR does some work at changing that though.
They also haven't had a ton of screen time. More writing equals a better faction. The shift from Diamond Shark to Sea Fox has been incredibly kind to my Clan. There is just much more written about them now.
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Yeah I can't get over this feeling that we will see the Foxes become a big deal in the next round of new storyline. Too many secrets...
Of the IS clans the Foxes, Bears, and Horses are the ones I like most, though admittedly I don't really think the Bears are as much clan as they are a nation state of the inner sphere with clan leaders and military.
The Foxes are sneaky, I would not be surprised for one second if they open the doors for the homeworld clans to come in. The name change and the khanate thing just scream recon force to me. The fact that they wrote the WoR book means they could have left a few things out too.
I would not put it past the remaining homeworld clans to decide the practical solution was to add an IS clan back in. The Foxes fit the best.
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I found something in WoR that I missed the first time through.
Pg. 121 Trial of Convenience says N'buta promised the Horses that the Adders would not roll through their OZ if they invaded.
So how tight will the Adders stay with the Horses if they come calling?
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I think we are up to something. But I dont think Spina would be building up the free worlds league to just betray them later. We are an incredibly liberal clan. We even go out of the way to help the republic, even though there is onviously some gain for backing up the federated suns.
So supporting the home clans who are going to be incredibly destructive does not make sense because it is ideological antithesis to clan sea fox. It is also fiscally antithesis since the gdp of the various inner sphere states should theoretically decrease if they are all burned to the ground.
So there are two likely scenarious (and, I imagine a million less likely ones)
One - the sea foxes are unfortunately directly in the way of the home clans and the chainelanes,from a hansa route. So the secrecy around the chainelanes may be that its an anti homeworlds fortress.
Or two - its an even closer beachhead for the home worlds. This is possible but is ideologically confusing.
Ill admit im not looking forward to a homeclan invasion from a sea fox standpoint. It should be devestating for us.
But with luck we will live. Its kind of our thing.
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I found something in WoR that I missed the first time through.
Pg. 121 Trial of Convenience says N'buta promised the Horses that the Adders would not roll through their OZ if they invaded.
So how tight will the Adders stay with the Horses if they come calling?
Ever notice how the cobras and the adders sat back and let the vipers have at the foxes without attacking them?
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So how tight will the Adders stay with the Horses if they come calling?
I think the Adders are kind of Lawful Evil. (to put it in DnD speak) They may have some flexible mores, but they do value honor and loyalty. Since we aren't writing it, who knows what will happen. My best guess is they will honor it. Contradictions born from strategic and tactical convenience are part of their behavior.
edit: good find, by the way. I had forgotten about that part. So much text :)
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Im not sure how I feel about the rasalhague dominion. I really like Clan Ghost Bear. I really like the rasalhague republic.
But so far the mix of the two things hasnt built that one really interesting state. But I think its coming up next.
The inner sphere clans are all changing and all reaching their ideal selves. The space gyspy foxes, the wolf imperials. The Chengis khan.
I feel like what comes next when the ghost bear and rasalhague become one singular culture will be really interesting.
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Also when the council of 6 votes to cut off contact with the homeworlds two votes oppose it but we don't know who they are, pg.145. My money, Horse or Sharks... I'd love to know who.
I didn't think about it because it is immediately proceeded by the epic point where Vlad Ward becomes my favorite IS clan character ever.
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Falcons and Wolves got kicked out. They arent going back. Thats some shame there.
Not useful for the bears. They left a long time ago. They only had their strana mechty holdings.
The horses are the most likely to vote to keep contact. They have the most to gain.
Clan Sea Fox barely left with its spies. Also taking goods from the inner sphere with abundant resources to the homeworlds would make a killing. Not to mention the homeworlds is basic cally running brand new reconstructed factories with their clan tech base. Dont get me wrong, selling resources for finished products is a bad trade but we could leverage something.
Also we love to know things. Without a presence the homeworlds are schrodingers cat.
I need to go back through and pay attention to the ravens. I forget why they were chased out.
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Ravens were helping the Blood Spirits and the Adders did not like it, so suddenly they had the attention of the whole Snake Alliance, since they are hated enemies with and of the Vipers.
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Yup. They arent going back. It was the sharks and horses.
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Almost guaranteed.
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Also when the council of 6 votes to cut off contact with the homeworlds two votes oppose it but we don't know who they are, pg.145. My money, Horse or Sharks... I'd love to know who.
I didn't think about it because it is immediately proceeded by the epic point where Vlad Ward becomes my favorite IS clan character ever.
I thought the Horses had already lost contact with the homeworld's by that time ...
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True. Just ask them. O:-)
If the Shark Foxes also had a way to do so, they may not have seen a reason to report it. Perhaps.
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Pretty sure that the Adders, who have taken such a strong attitude towards the "taint" of the Spheroid Clans, aren't buddying up with the Sharks or the Horses anytime soon. So all of this theorizing is standing on some pretty weak legs at the moment.
The Sharks especially aren't going to be looked on fondly by the Adders with all of their selling out (literally) to the Inner Sphere. I also don't see the Sharks working with anyone that is going to threaten their consumer base. That would run counter to pretty much everything they stand for. So that's a baseless theory in and of itself.
As for the Horses, well, the Adders worked with them out of convenience to fry a bigger fish (the Burrocks), and the sole "untainted" portion of the Horses ended up burning away the stigma of being Hell's Horses in the Homeworlds as a pretty brazen political ploy by the Adders to buy themselves more Grand Council votes. I can't fathom why some people insist on making that particular alliance of convenience more than what it was.
The logical assumption is that, given the virulently anti-Sphere stance the Homeworld Clans were taking post-WoR and the direction they were going, their attitudes have only gotten worse over the subsequent years. And when (not if, because we all know it's coming) Clan Star Adder leads the charge to finally bring the Clan dream of restoring the Star League to fruition, the Spheroid Clans are probably going to be their first targets. Everything in the WoR story points to this being the next step for them when they make their grand entrance.
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Pretty sure that the Adders, who have taken such a strong attitude towards the "taint" of the Spheroid Clans, aren't buddying up with the Sharks or the Horses anytime soon. So all of this theorizing is standing on some pretty weak legs at the moment.
If weak legs means clues from the text, then sure. That's your opinion.
The Sharks especially aren't going to be looked on fondly by the Adders with all of their selling out (literally) to the Inner Sphere. I also don't see the Sharks working with anyone that is going to threaten their consumer base. That would run counter to pretty much everything they stand for. So that's a baseless theory in and of itself.
My Shark Fox "theory" was about the Home Clans in general, and not specifically the Adders. The Imperio might be were they meet with agents from any Clan or former Clan in the region. Hansa space as well.
It's more than a theory, you see.
As for the Horses, well, the Adders worked with them out of convenience to fry a bigger fish (the Burrocks), and the sole "untainted" portion of the Horses ended up burning away the stigma of being Hell's Horses in the Homeworlds as a pretty brazen political ploy by the Adders to buy themselves more Grand Council votes. I can't fathom why some people insist on making that particular alliance of convenience more than what it was.
Ignoring the parts about their mutual respect? There are many of them.
The logical assumption is that, given the virulently anti-Sphere stance the Homeworld Clans were taking post-WoR and the direction they were going, their attitudes have only gotten worse over the subsequent years. And when (not if, because we all know it's coming) Clan Star Adder leads the charge to finally bring the Clan dream of restoring the Star League to fruition, the Spheroid Clans are probably going to be their first targets. Everything in the WoR story points to this being the next step for them when they make their grand entrance.
I agree about the Adders wanting to lead the charge, and probably attempt to destroy as many Clans as they can, but they are hampered by a lack of resources.
But I think you are selling their planning skills out big time. Chasing around all of the Clans would be zany sillyness that All IS peoples should hope to see happen. :)
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If weak legs means clues from the text, then sure. That's your opinion.
What clues are you referring to? Because I haven't seen any. (I'm not being sarcastic, either.)
My Shark Fox "theory" was about the Home Clans in general, and not specifically the Adders. The Imperio might be were they meet with agents from any Clan or former Clan in the region. Hansa space as well.
As good a meeting place as any, but there's just nothing to back this up at all. Nothing that I've been able to find, anyway.
It's more than a theory, you see.
Not at this point, it isn't, since no such thing has been explicitly stated in any text I've read.
Ignoring the parts about their mutual respect? There are many of them.
Mutual respect aside, share these "many" things. I'm eager to see why people are so sold on this idea. Convince me that all of these many things will override the Abjuration and the "taint" of the Inner Sphere Clans that the Adders, by all indications, do have for them.
I agree about the Adders wanting to lead the charge, and probably attempt to destroy as many Clans as they can, but they are hampered by a lack of resources.
There were hampered post-WoR. Who's to say if they're hampered now? A lot can change in that span of time, as we all know by now.
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Tassa, no one can definitely prove you wrong until its published.
There are points in the WoR that make the Adder and Horse relationship much more than one of convenience. The term mutual respect is used several times, including after the Horses are abjured.
The Adders may well keep their promise and not invade through the Horse OZ. But they will probably send one of their allies that way. ;)
As for the Sharks there is certainly mutual gain for them and the homeworlds to work with each other. Particularly, if the homeworlds are not overtly working on invading.
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I'm agreeing to disagree about clues from the text in WoR, at least while I'm at work ;)
And for the rest, I can't make other posters utilize their imaginations in the way that mine happens to fire. Too bad, it would be fun to see who was scared by it.
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So in other words, neither of you can be bothered to answer my question and support your own theories. Gotcha. O0
(Don't mistake my questions for me saying it won't happen, or that I wouldn't like to see it happen, the way you guys describe. I just don't tend to deal in anything less than hard facts. It's the journalist in me. Apologies for my harsh tone, gents.)
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So in other words, neither of you can be bothered to answer my question and support your own theories. Gotcha. O0
The Adder and Horse relationship is referred to as being much stronger than one of convenience a couple times in WoR. It did start that way. I think there is more there. I would like to know what happened to the Adder 5th and 191st after the joined the Horses. I would also like to know how many watch warriors were rotated into those units before they split off from the rest of the Adder task force at Nouveaux Paris (probably spelled it wrong).
I doubt the Adders break their promise and invade the Horse OZ... I don't doubt the Adders assign that OZ to someone else.
The idea that the Sharks are working with the homies is more far fetched. But I have this underlying feeling that the SharkFox is going to be a big player in the next cycle of new material. They have some secrets stuff in that area of the periphery, that's my only evidence. Well that and the Adders had great relations with them and did not attack them in the Reavings, but they admittedly let the Vipers whack them pretty hard.
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And for the rest, I can't make other posters utilize their imaginations in the way that mine happens to fire. Too bad, it would be fun to see who was scared by it.
Yeah! Dopamines for the win! Making connections with your brain is sick.
Happiness for rewards isn't so bad either.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Homeworld Clans make the Stone Lions take on their former brethren, the Hell's Horses. However, I also would be surprised if the Star Adders used a loophole in their agreement with Hell's Horses to invade their OZ just as the Horses used one to invade the Hellion corridor. Perhaps, "these worlds weren't part of the Horse invasion corridor, they were part of the Hellion's" or "our agreement was for us not to interfere with your invasion and your invasion stopped decades ago."
Currently all the Homeworld Clans consider the IS Clans tainted, but once they realize how much the Diamond Sharks have changed, they will probably hold in even greater contempt than the others. After all the Diamond Sharks have abandoned most of their Clan trappings including abandoning the Clan name that they won a Trial of Refusal against the Grand Council for. That said, it would be the first time that the writers and Developers disregarded Clan traits, customs or well-established (whether positive or negative) relationships between Clans in order to tell the story they wanted to tell.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Homeworld Clans make the Stone Lions take on their former brethren, the Hell's Horses. However, I also would be surprised if the Star Adders used a loophole in their agreement with Hell's Horses to invade their OZ just as the Horses used one to invade the Hellion corridor. Perhaps, "these worlds weren't part of the Horse invasion corridor, they were part of the Hellion's" or "our agreement was for us not to interfere with your invasion and your invasion stopped decades ago."
Politicking like that has been the cause of many a great Annihilation or Absorption.
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Politicking like that has been the cause of many a great Annihilation or Absorption.
And yet nobody openly complained when the Wolves were forced to accept the FRR invasion corridor or when they elected him ilKhan. Forcing the Stone Lions to prove themselves against their former brethren would be the final step in proven themselves a viable Clan and stepping out from the Star Adders' shadow.
As for the rest, that would simply be the Star Adders holding themselves to the letter of the law (agreement) rather than the spirit. Besides its highly unlikely that either has anything written down for anybody to prove anything one way or the other.
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With half the Horses, well maybe not that many, having been hanging out with the Falcons that won't be doing our cause any good.
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With half the Horses, well maybe not that many, having been hanging out with the Falcons that won't be doing our cause any good.
I wonder if the split in the Horses might lead to some of them joining and invasion should it come. Or if the large group of Adders that went with the Horses laid the ground work for the split.
I just have a feeling that the taint concept will evolve to a point that makes it practical for the Adders. Like anyone who denounces the IS or does some ritual (trial) will be cleansed of taint.
What I would really like to see is some form of monkeying with the DNA that decreases warrior's prowess. Then have only one of the two clan groups have discovered it. Then you get one group of warriors that are actually superior to the other. It would make sense for the smaller homeworlds to have the edge, but hey I'm biased.
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So in other words, neither of you can be bothered to answer my question and support your own theories. Gotcha. O0
(Don't mistake my questions for me saying it won't happen, or that I wouldn't like to see it happen, the way you guys describe. I just don't tend to deal in anything less than hard facts. It's the journalist in me. Apologies for my harsh tone, gents.)
No problem at all Tassa Kay.
I personally have no idea how things will unfold once the rumbling from the deep periphery starts. So we have that in common.
But as for hard facts: There are places in the Periphery that have been off limits to all authors except Ben Rome, they are his domain, who is still working with them. So we know the Chainlanes, the Hansa and the Imperio will be subjects of upcoming works of importance. Why would only the Home Clans interact here? Why not that Clan that does whatever it wants when no one is looking? The Shark Foxes don't let councils of other Clan leaders tell them what to do, especially when there are profits to be made. These are some of the hard facts.
So it is an intuitive jump on my part to say that the Shark Foxes, who have stated interest in the Chainlanes and in spying on activity in Hansa space, will be involved, and possibly in contact with folks they are not supposed to be talking to, because it's exactly the kind of thing that they do. And they already have the prerequisite of being involved with Deep Periphery nations in fact. They are also known, in fact, to lie to the other Clans when they can get away with it.
So here it is, a mix of hard facts and intuitive leaps. It could be kind of right, it could be mostly wrong. It's my opinion, that's all.
:) Just like the Adders and their embedded Burrock problem. My opinion. The noise it generates speaks for itself.
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According to ISP3, no Clan but the Sea Foxes has any significant involvement in the Chainlanes Isles. While the Sea Fox Watch may be interested in keeping an eye out for the Homeworld Clans by planting agents in Hansa and Imperio, the merchant caste has little to no interest in dealing with the Hansa and even less so with the Imperio who have even less to offer. With the lucrative Inner Sphere markets and the slightly less profitable Periphery states (still more profitable than the deep periphery states) there is no need.
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According to ISP3, no Clan but the Sea Foxes has any significant involvement in the Chainlanes Isles. While the Sea Fox Watch may be interested in keeping an eye out for the Homeworld Clans by planting agents in Hansa and Imperio, the merchant caste has little to no interest in dealing with the Hansa and even less so with the Imperio who have even less to offer. With the lucrative Inner Sphere markets and the slightly less profitable Periphery states (still more profitable than the deep periphery states) there is no need.
I agree, that is how it has been. But the future always brings with it change. I think the Sea Foxes cannot help but follow their curiosity, a lot like the Imperio and the Goliath Scorpions were before that. And an Abjured Clan attempting to survive is a market of considerable size.
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The Adder/Home Clan threat is such that the Sea Foxes might have a keen interest in keeping the Imperio from falling, using their considerable wealth to their own ends in the matter.
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I agree, that is how it has been. But the future always brings with it change. I think the Sea Foxes cannot help but follow their curiosity, a lot like the Imperio and the Goliath Scorpions were before that. And an Abjured Clan attempting to survive is a market of considerable size.
It might be a market of considerable size but more importantly it is not a profitable market. Sure Sea Fox has a lot to offer the Imperio but the Imperio has little to nothing to offer in exchange. Political instability and irregular Clan raids makes trading expeditions and long term investment too risky.
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Last but not least, such support would get the Sharks swiftly retaliation from the Homeclans.
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So you are saying it would have to be in secret, quiaff? :)
Not sure how the Sea Foxes are about secret weapons dealings... Now I remember, they are not adverse to that at all and have taken the hit for doing so in their relations with fellow Clans, and then the Foxes continued to do so whenever the situation arises it seems.
The Sea Foxes may have a whole lot to lose if the Adders ever hit the Chainlanes hard and scoured the cluster for the Sea Foxes installations and facilities. Since that might be imperative, of which warship and jumpship repair facilities often are, then they will have to do something. They have a history of violence with the Hansa, but are now content with Watch operations and the like there, as with the Imperio (ISP3 said that Interstellar Expeditions got their updated info on the Imperio from them, so they are in the region way back at that time). By 3145, so much more will have happened. Then by 3150, who knows how much more... onward toward a possible time leap.
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Careful Rebs, you cant hypothesize on future outcomes without strictly following all facts from the sourcebooks that took place 60 years ago.
That way when the writers have something change or write something new to supplement the old stuff we can be blown away by its inconceivableness.
Honestly I dont see the sea foxes and the adders getting along.
But the bastion and aggressor political parties that were in their infancy at the end of the wars of reaving have 60 years to change and grow based on their reverence for an insane dead ilkhan and the last words of an adder khan.
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Careful Kitsune, sounds like you are starting to like a certain boring Snake Clan. Or comfy up with them. The Star Adders have all kinds of upside.
;D
Now, the agents of the Sea Fox Watch in the Imperio were killed, as alluded to in the ISP3 Imperio chapter. So Fox contact with them might not be resumed, but contact with the Adders or Home Clans (violent contact or otherwise) might still occur in the Hansa space, where they could fight in a rival trade power's powerbase and try to keep the focus of conflict away from their own holdings of importance for as long as possible.
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Careful Rebs, you cant hypothesize on future outcomes without strictly following all facts from the sourcebooks that took place 60 years ago.
Not necessary, bro.
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I think that you are seeing a vacuum because of the way things are written. The dark age setting was largely, or possibly, oblivious to the homeworlds. Really a rending of falcons has senna rodriguez admit that five clans died and the clans left the homeworlds.
The reboot did not admit much.
The Wars of Reaving were written after that and It seems had a fairly clean slate, at least we are able to argue which clans could have died, which suggests things were not written in stone(lions).
So then you have the vacuum. The inner sphere clans may not have occasion to venture towards the deep periphery to figure out what is going on. But is clan sea fox sticking to a boundary? Are they refusing to venture past the chainelanes?
Do they never head to the jarnfolk to trade? Do the jarnfolk not trade with the hansa anymore?
There is a deep periphery sized hole in the current fluff. Did IE die? We do not know what is going on in the hansa, or the imperio, but we had organizations that spent alot of time out there.
Clan sea fox took over the chainelanes which is a prime training ground to keep up with their intimidating and professional watch. You see them utilizing this watch in the inner sphere frequently. But the dark age fluff has no reason to concern them with the dep periphery because at that time there was no wars of reaving.
The chances of clan sea fox not having a concurent relationship with the adders, whether antagonistic or protaganistic seems unlikely because of rationale thought.
The clans have not forgotten that the homeworlds are out there. Or that the deep periphery is out there. At some point the narrative is going to reconcile this gap.
If it turns out that clan sea fox has ignoring the hansa which is few light years away from the chainelanes and is known for trading I will be surprised.
People have been taking for face value this idea that the homeworlds have self destructed when our last snap shot of them has them being fairly healthy. But the faction most likely to interact with them is being surprisingly secretive. Even though the two goals are antithesis to eachother it still begs for questions.
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Careful Kitsune, sounds like you are starting to like a certain boring Snake Clan. Or comfy up with them. The Star Adders have all kinds of upside.
;D
I feel like their destined purpose is something that clan sea fox would genuinely dislike. I actually think the adders are the gravest threat to clan sea fox.
I still do not feel like they have a true culture. They are a bit vanilla. But they are a foil for the whole of the inner sphere.
I think pre- wars of reaving they were a fantastic fox ally as far as crusaders go. Also one of clan sea foxes few intellectual contemparies. Most clans simply do not see Kerenskys words as a general guideline rather than law.
I think the homeworlds are the narrative future of the franchise though. I hope the future is interesting and fun and that we sea foxes can have at least a few khanates limp away ready for more battletech at the end of it.
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The chances of clan sea fox not having a concurent relationship with the adders, whether antagonistic or protaganistic seems unlikely because of rationale thought.
You are forgetting that the Star Adders have a standing policy to shoot down any vessel going to or coming from the Inner Sphere. They obliterated the Damascus when it tried to violate the isolationist policy. If they are willing to shoot down a fellow Homeworld Clan WarShip, you had better believe that they will do that to any Sea Fox vessel that comes too close.
The clans have not forgotten that the homeworlds are out there. Or that the deep periphery is out there. At some point the narrative is going to reconcile this gap.
While they may not have forgotten, until they receive some world that the Homeworld Clans are on the move, they couldn't care less. With the Blackout and the Inner Sphere boiling over, they have far more immediate concerns.
If it turns out that clan sea fox has ignoring the hansa which is few light years away from the chainelanes and is known for trading I will be surprised.
The Hanseatic League is more than 300 light years aware from the Chainelane Isles. Again while it is likely that the Sea Fox Watch has assets in the Hanseatic League, the League is too far away for the merchant caste to have much interest in them. If the Hansa want to bring trade to them-fine, if not-still fine. After all they have the entire Inner Sphere market to keep them busy.
People have been taking for face value this idea that the homeworlds have self destructed when our last snap shot of them has them being fairly healthy.
Since when? As far as I can tell, most people on these boards believe that the Homeworld Clans have been biding their time, building up their strength in preparation for a new invasion. I don't recall anybody saying that they have self-destructed.
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A few folks have indeed posted the hope they blew themselves up, the MD shot asteroids at them, etc
Those people fall into 3 categories:
1.) humorous
2.) missed the WoR supplemental
3.) general disdain for the clans to start with/wishful thinking
It's funny if you watch these forums for a while. It's fine for posters to go around saying kill the clans kill the clans. But anyone even implies killing a house and said house's supporters come out of the wood work deeply offended and start a ruckus. The posters/players who treat the clans like they are still a new flash in the pan faction are really hilarious; wonder how many of them think smart phones are an annoying passing trend?
I would love nothing more than to see the homeworld clans smash a couple established factions. Not to upset people here, but so people get that in a war game, eventually factions are going to die off.
I don't have disdain for any particular faction but CGL/FASA has whacked 11 clans (ok ones a periphery state) it's time some one else got killed off. I don't disagree with how the majority of those clans died because it made the story better.
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You are forgetting that the Star Adders have a standing policy to shoot down any vessel going to or coming from the Inner Sphere. They obliterated the Damascus when it tried to violate the isolationist policy. If they are willing to shoot down a fellow Homeworld Clan WarShip, you had better believe that they will do that to any Sea Fox vessel that comes too close.
I have not forgotten it. My suppositions are that the relationship between the sea foxes and home clans is antagonistic in nature.
While they may not have forgotten, until they receive some world that the Homeworld Clans are on the move, they couldn't care less. With the Blackout and the Inner Sphere boiling over, they have far more immediate concerns.
If you were a watch commander and were aware that the home clans were securing a beachhead or at the very least pressing closer to the inner sphere while having such policies that they have currently would you take your eyes off of them? Especially if they are five to ten weeks away from you?
The Hanseatic League is more than 300 light years aware from the Chainelane Isles. Again while it is likely that the Sea Fox Watch has assets in the Hanseatic League, the League is too far away for the merchant caste to have much interest in them. If the Hansa want to bring trade to them-fine, if not-still fine. After all they have the entire Inner Sphere market to keep them busy.
The trade and contact with the hansa is not as important as the lack of it. If clan sea fox has lost agents, contact and trade with the hansa then looking the other way would be a fools oversight. I am not saying that it is not happening. But it does demonstrate an alarming lack of guile.
Since when? As far as I can tell, most people on these boards believe that the Homeworld Clans have been biding their time, building up their strength in preparation for a new invasion. I don't recall anybody saying that they have self-destructed.
The homeworlds are schrodingers cat. There was absolutely no information about then during the dark ages. While some of us that read the supplemental might have assumed otherwise cgl admitted to having no designs with the homeworlds. Since last we heard from them they were planning an invasion that had not happened yet some believed that they were gone.
Until ben rome called the adders smugly ambitious this had been a trend on the forum. Like cold1 said.
I am still wondering if Ben Romes callout might be a setup for an alarming home worlds based april fools joke. That would be grand.
I also like the idea of them being behind the blackout.
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Please don't put the Homeworlds in the April fools joke
CGL, please don't toy with us, we're waiting patiently for news from the homeworlds, please do not pump fake us... too badly.
The idea that the Homeclans might interact with the SharkFoxes in the Imperio or Hansa is not crazy. Watch operations. No jumpships running blockades or anything like that.
Back channel dealings all the way.
Something like:
Adder watch: we're coming and we're bringing the biggest war machine since the SLDF, we respect the Fox and our khan asks your khan to step out of the way. Move your assets to the FWL and as reward we will give you those territories and a place in our new Star League. Share this knowledge with any other party and your khanates will burn.
Fox watch: ummm... ok, we will relay the message
That message is a stretch, but Fox agents communicating with Homeworld agents is not.
Granted homeworld agents may have orders to kill any IS agent they encounter too ;)
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I'm with you on this, Cold1. That may not be much consolation, but I assure you, it could be worse ;D
If the Adders being mentioned was a part of an April Fools setup... well, that was the first thing I thought when I read Ghostbear's comment. Seems like an obvious connection, so obvious that it's probably good for the Pranksters Actual who are putting something together for us. That's my take.
But the wording of the comment makes me think the writing process is going on right now - right now! - for whatever is taking place in the Deep Periphery. How many times have we been warned that we don't know what is taking place out there, because we do not know the whole story? There could be some really damn good reasons why an invasion from the Homeworlds has not come yet, and maybe we'll get to find out some more of it.
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The reason why an invasion from the Homeworlds hasn't come yet is because MWDA never touched upon it, and CGL had to finish with the Dark Age era before they could return to that dangling plot thread.
I've never seen so much giddiness on these boards over two words before. Smugly ambitious. Like that's news or something. Pretty sure those two words have been the defining trait of Clan Star Adder since its inception. ;D
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In RL that's the reason for no Homie invasion. Ghostbear's announcement tells us something is filling the gap, possibly, maybe, hopefully... And it isn't a giant theoretical twinkie.
Who's giddy? ???
"Smuggly ambitious" may not be news to posters who have always thought the Adders were crooked dealers in Clan law. I can't argue with that idea. Their history speaks for itself, and I've noted their propensity to do all kinds of things that they accuse other Clans of doing throughout their history, and the whole song and dance involved with that debate. But it stirred the brew of talk considerably, just as planned, I'm sure.
So as posters, it is our solemn duty to post. And complain about posts. Until the day the new material is released to give us new things to post about.
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I've never seen so much giddiness on these boards over two words before. Smugly ambitious. Like that's news or something. Pretty sure those two words have been the defining trait of Clan Star Adder since its inception. ;D
I said that already... Well, kinda
We know an entire section of the BTU is off limits to all writers except Ben Rome. It's not the smugly ambitious part that gets me excited (like you said its the Adders, that's how they roll) its that Ben said he has a plan for them. That doesn't mean a book is being written, it means the assistant developer who has singular control on the homeclans is actively planning future story. It gets me excited, that's 85% of what I care about in Battletech.
My gidiness has everything to do with plans for my favorite faction(s) being acknowledged by CGL.
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When Ghostbear says he has something written about a faction, I hope he knows people jump easily to the conclusion that he's writing something that we fans might get to read some time in the near to medium-near future.
And on another note, by tomorrow, we'll have something else to occupy us. :) For a time.
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If you were a watch commander and were aware that the home clans were securing a beachhead or at the very least pressing closer to the inner sphere while having such policies that they have currently would you take your eyes off of them? Especially if they are five to ten weeks away from you?
The trade and contact with the hansa is not as important as the lack of it. If clan sea fox has lost agents, contact and trade with the hansa then looking the other way would be a fools oversight. I am not saying that it is not happening. But it does demonstrate an alarming lack of guile.
Reread my previous post. I didn't discount the possibility of them having posted agents in the Hansa. The Hansa
The homeworlds are schrodingers cat. There was absolutely no information about then during the dark ages. While some of us that read the supplemental might have assumed otherwise cgl admitted to having no designs with the homeworlds. Since last we heard from them they were planning an invasion that had not happened yet some believed that they were gone.
Even if CGL had no plans for the Homeworld Clans I trust that the Developers would come up with a more interesting way to eliminate four factions.
I also like the idea of them being behind the blackout.
As far as I remember, when that idea was thrown out, most people believed that they would have done it just prior to them launching their invasion or simultaneously in order to surprise the Inner Sphere and give them an early edge by making it more difficult for the Inner Sphere to coordinate their response.
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Even if CGL had no plans for the Homeworld Clans I trust that the Developers would come up with a more interesting way to eliminate four factions.
I do as well. Most statements in battlechats and in the ask the writers section that make references to the clans being reduced to stone age technology are obviously written because they cannot write, "They are causing a blackout and going to invade the Inner Sphere" when asked. But its still a theory supported by some. Refer to Cold1's post, and will come up in a discussion about what the homeworlds are up to.
As far as I remember, when that idea was thrown out, most people believed that they would have done it just prior to them launching their invasion or simultaneously in order to surprise the Inner Sphere and give them an early edge by making it more difficult for the Inner Sphere to coordinate their response.
Taking away the Inner Sphere communications would not prevent the Inner Sphere from eventually collaborating against a culture that was scouring planets. Or clans for that matter. Taking away their communications and possibly inciting action against each other (The Blake Scheme) would make it easier to conquer the Inner Sphere. Additionally it would make it look like the Word of Blake.
If they implemented the blackout and waited a few years they could invade an embattled Inner Sphere which would make factions less likely to band together against them because of increased animosity and hopefully high property damage. Assuming of course that the mobilization of Inner Sphere industry towards war materials, which would have happened anyways if they invaded, wasn't sufficient to give them pause. At the moment it does not seem to be.
It is also possible that the implementation of Fortress Republic would give an invasion force pause. Especially if said invasion force was holding to Kerensky's original vision of conquering Terra. Terra being unconquerable because it is unreachable would certainly pause an invasion for said Terra.
From a meta-knowledge standpoint we can suppose a few things. Writers said that by the end of last year, before the timetable got wrecked, they would be in open waters. They were going to reconcile the dark age timeline and then move forward. There was a talk about a reboot, or a minor jump in time or a major jump in time.
I think there is some hesitance for a second invasion because it is 'retreading old ground' however it could be used to reset the playing field for a fresh start in the next century if it happened between the end of the dark age timeline and before the beginning of the new timeline.
Or it could be the major event for the new timeline set in the future. Because of the fan response to the idea of jumping forward in time it was said that they were still going to jump ahead, simply get there slower.
So if it is the first circumstance where a invasion by the home clans basically 'reboots' the setting in the 32nd century, then the change of plans would mean that we now play through said invasion.
If it is the Second circumstance where an invasion is the catalyst for entertainment in the 32nd century then what product may bridge the gap between Ilclan and such time is any ones guess.
It can also be neither of those things. The liberty of a writer is such that they may avail themselves to simply do something new. Which of course is more difficult to predict because of the tendency to get wrapped up in the 'facts'.
For instance, there were plenty of hints about the Clans leading up to the Clan invasion. But while it said Kerensky's army left and there was cause for belief in probably concern guessing the culture that they did return in would be fairly difficult.
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The "homeworlds reduced to stone age technology" was a reaction, originally by me*, to those folks who convinced themselves that the only possible future for the Clans was "super ultra deluxe new tech." It was meant to show that all things are plausible, and better to enjoy the ride than to build things up too far in your head and inevitably being disappointed by the reality. After all, whatever happens, some folks won't like it.
* Did I mention I don't work for CGL anymore? Wonder how that happened.
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The "homeworlds reduced to stone age technology" was a reaction, originally by me*, to those folks who convinced themselves that the only possible future for the Clans was "super ultra deluxe new tech." It was meant to show that all things are plausible, and better to enjoy the ride than to build things up too far in your head and inevitably being disappointed by the reality. After all, whatever happens, some folks won't like it.
* Did I mention I don't work for CGL anymore? Wonder how that happened.
I think that the last two pages of this thread are pretty good example of that too. Anything can happen.
The Republic and the Dark Age are an example of that. Despite the hints that there would be a Jihad. I do not think anybody 'called' the Republic.
I did not suppose that Clan Diamond Shark would become Clan Sea Fox and some Quarian style roaming space gypsy's either, even though I dearly enjoy that outcome. None of the published facts supported that. So if I said it would happen it would be a leap from published doctrine.
As ColBosch is pointing out here. That cuts both ways.
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One day I will post my take on the future of the Clans, though. O:-)
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One day I will post my take on the future of the Clans, though. O:-)
Kerensky help us...
As to your previous post: I remember when you made the stone age comment, and I took it just as you intended. Unfortunately, their are some folks with true venom for all things clan and they ran with it. And a few other people continued the joke.
My point was more that you never see clan supporters showing up in a house's thread saying they hope their faction dies. It would get jumped by a mod instantly. But roll in the Chatterweb and wish the clans/a clan dead and it is accepted behavior. It's a microcosm of the game, it's ok to hate the clans, but blasphemy to hate the houses.
My opinion (and probably mine alone) is nothing would be better for Battletech the clans kicking the crap out of everyone. Even if it's the Wolf/Falcon/Bear etc. I'd like to see the clans become the prevailing power for a while.
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I once read a thread of predictions from a few years ago around here and the Periphery boards. It was regarding sizes of militaries in the Deep Periphery, and folks were calling for 40 regiments of mechs in Nueva Castile, 60 or more regiments in the Hansa, all affected by the thought of all of the Clans nearby in the Homeworlds, so they must have huge militaries to survive.
Obviously, nothing like that was the case. It makes me wonder how wrong our batch of predictions are, or how off focus we are from what really will happen, once we've seen the rest of this cycle of products for the Dark Age and Post Dark Age.
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So you are saying it would have to be in secret, quiaff? :)
Not sure how the Sea Foxes are about secret weapons dealings... Now I remember, they are not adverse to that at all and have taken the hit for doing so in their relations with fellow Clans, and then the Foxes continued to do so whenever the situation arises it seems.
Weapons Dealing 101: Don't sell arms to a faction that has repeatedly attacked you. Clan Sea Fox isn't foolish enough to sell weapons to a faction that is very likely to turn the weapons against them. Besides, Clan Sea Fox has no reason to trade with the Hansa since they have little to nothing to offer Clan Sea Fox that they can't get in the Inner Sphere.
They have a history of violence with the Hansa, but are now content with Watch operations and the like there, as with the Imperio (ISP3 said that Interstellar Expeditions got their updated info on the Imperio from them, so they are in the region way back at that time).
There is no indication whatsoever that there was any Diamond Shark operatives operating in the Imperio. ISP3 indicates that the report was submitted by an IE agent (who was subsequently killed) not a Diamond Shark Watch operative. Even the GM section only lists the Hansa, Coyote, Cloud Cobra and Stone Lions as having deployed intelligence operatives in the Imperio.
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One day I will post my take on the future of the Clans, though. O:-)
Feel free to do it now :) .
It is simply fantasy, is not it?
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Weapons Dealing 101: Don't sell arms to a faction that has repeatedly attacked you. Clan Sea Fox isn't foolish enough to sell weapons to a faction that is very likely to turn the weapons against them. Besides, Clan Sea Fox has no reason to trade with the Hansa since they have little to nothing to offer Clan Sea Fox that they can't get in the Inner Sphere.
There is no indication whatsoever that there was any Diamond Shark operatives operating in the Imperio. ISP3 indicates that the report was submitted by an IE agent (who was subsequently killed) not a Diamond Shark Watch operative. Even the GM section only lists the Hansa, Coyote, Cloud Cobra and Stone Lions as having deployed intelligence operatives in the Imperio.
Times they are a changing. The situation will change too.
I'm just not buying that the Sea Foxes will be sitting on their hands. ISP3 indicated they were active in the region, and I hope they remain that way for the duration of hostilities.
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Feel free to do it now :) .
It is simply fantasy, is not it?
Yep, though I think it'd make for some neat adventures. We hear about pre-industrial societies in BattleTech now and then, but we rarely actually see them.
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In RL that's the reason for no Homie invasion. Ghostbear's announcement tells us something is filling the gap, possibly, maybe, hopefully... And it isn't a giant theoretical twinkie.
His post said nothing of the kind. Just that they were having some feelings. :)
Who's giddy? ???
Cold1.;)
"Smuggly ambitious" may not be news to posters who have always thought the Adders were crooked dealers in Clan law. I can't argue with that idea. Their history speaks for itself, and I've noted their propensity to do all kinds of things that they accuse other Clans of doing throughout their history, and the whole song and dance involved with that debate. But it stirred the brew of talk considerably, just as planned, I'm sure.
It's because people are so desperate for news that they'll take two vague words and immediately leap to the conclusion that Something Is Coming. The fact that we know there's an ilClan book just fuels that desperation.
So as posters, it is our solemn duty to post. And complain about posts. Until the day the new material is released to give us new things to post about.
I wasn't aware that it was our duty to fill the Adder thread with a bunch of flights of fancy and whimsical invasion scenarios...but given that that's more or less been the MO here even before WoR came out, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people are still discussing hypotheticals like they're prophecies.
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Giddy? Me??? Yes
:D
But again, giddy to hear Ben is actively planning something for my clan that's been behind a curtain for a while. Not giddy because of smugly ambitious.
The Adders dreaming about an invasion fits the Adder thread, since all it's ever been is a flight of fancy anyway.
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Well, sure. I'm hoping that this ilClan book will be where they make their grand entrance, and while I want them to bite it out of principle (and to avenge my fallen Clan!), I want to see them make as big a mark as possible on the Inner Sphere in the process. The great thing is that there really IS no guessing as to the outcome of such a future invasion: the Adders could take Terra, the Wolves could take Terra, they could destroy each other in the process, a third party could end up becoming ilClan...the possibilities are limitless at this point since we're finally entering uncharted territory.
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His post said nothing of the kind. Just that they were having some feelings. :)
Which confirms they are not dead. :) I feel therefore I am?
Cold1.;)
Is awesome. (Even if his clan is wickedly boring)
It's because people are so desperate for news that they'll take two vague words and immediately leap to the conclusion that Something Is Coming. The fact that we know there's an ilClan book just fuels that desperation.
I wasn't aware that it was our duty to fill the Adder thread with a bunch of flights of fancy and whimsical invasion scenarios...but given that that's more or less been the MO here even before WoR came out, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people are still discussing hypotheticals like they're prophecies.
Why not? Its what we do in the wolf thread. What kind of discourse would you like to see in these threads?
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We have a strange adverserial relationship, you and I. One which I must admit I see no value in maintaining. I would rather cultivate a friendship.
Since the main point of contention between us seems to be that I enjoy wistfully hypothesizing and you dislike this same pursuit I will try to analyze why hypothetically discussing matters of invasion is the industry to which star adders are best suited.
People seem to choose their faction based on the espoused values of that faction. Whether because they find those values agreeable or because those values are contrary to the players nature.and they wish to partake in wish fulfillment.
Though there is perhaps a projection of some player values on a faction. For instance both rebs and myself both view clan sea fox as being compassionate. Those that see clan sea fox as being a clan with only mercantile interests will point out that compassion does not contribute to a bottom line (I beleive the economics of compassion could be argued myself.) But we both see compassion as having a worthwhile value.
So then if we are discussing a clan whose espoused values are cooperation and strategy and we are informed that the goal of this strategy is to conquer the inner sphere. Where we know that their previous political leanings were such that they thought that they should conquer the inner sphere and that their current political ideology dictates that they conquer the inner sphere in a much more violent and xenophobic matter then does that not conclude that discussions by fans who find their values agreeable should be prediposed towards conversations that they subjugate the inner sphere and that perhaps they participate with other factions to strategically leverage this consequnce?
In this way it can also be argued that clan star adder is also clan pinky and the brain.
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I'm just not buying that the Sea Foxes will be sitting on their hands. ISP3 indicated they were active in the region, and I hope they remain that way for the duration of hostilities.
ISP3 only states that the Sharks were active in the Chainlaine Isles and Hanseatic League, it makes no such indication for Imperio. As for their "relationship" with the Hanseatic League DS Merchant Factor Lorenzo clearly indicates that they are still hostile towards one another ("While there are no plans for confrontation with the League at this point, Clan warriors and Watch operatives should be aware of this possible danger when dealing with the Hansa." p64)
As far as contact with the Clan Homeworlds, the ISP3 is also clear on that: "Beyond the Diamond Shark base in the Chainelane Isles, there is complete, dead silence out here. No bases, no functioning HPG relays, no listening posts, no naval presence—nothing at all to suggest any link to the Clan Homeworlds whatsoever." (p98)
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As far as contact with the Clan Homeworlds, the ISP3 is also clear on that: "Beyond the Diamond Shark base in the Chainelane Isles, there is complete, dead silence out here. No bases, no functioning HPG relays, no listening posts, no naval presence—nothing at all to suggest any link to the Clan Homeworlds whatsoever." (p98)
And this is an impressive feat. If it has been done by the Homeclans.
BTW if the Homeclans get an April`s Fool product, it would make me happy.
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His post said nothing of the kind. Just that they were having some feelings. :)
And their feelings are going to drive the next chapter of BT as it stands in the coreward reaches of the Deep Periphery.
Unless you think nothing will happen. But if that were the case, why is Ghostbear telling us about it? He was silent for a long time, and he could have kept that up, which would seem to me to be an expedient way to tell people nothing is about to happen.
Cold1.;)
Ahhh, I see.
It's because people are so desperate for news that they'll take two vague words and immediately leap to the conclusion that Something Is Coming. The fact that we know there's an ilClan book just fuels that desperation.
You choose to dress it in such ugly language. Not very diplomatic at all. It's called hope, for the last time. ;D
Besides, is CGL in the business of doing nothing? I keep thinking they produce BT sourcebooks and other gaming materials. Somebody should disabuse me of that if it is not so.
I wasn't aware that it was our duty to fill the Adder thread with a bunch of flights of fancy and whimsical invasion scenarios...but given that that's more or less been the MO here even before WoR came out, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that people are still discussing hypotheticals like they're prophecies.
I was not aware that my opinions would be called prophecies. ^-^ But I thank you for the thought.
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I have a new argument for the boring argument
Heavy lasers! Not boring at all, not really all that useful either. But if you take an H variant or something with lots of them it will not be a boring fight. Ever shoot another mech with 2 HLL's or 5 or 6 HMLs??? If you haven't you are missing out. It's one of those experiences that you just have think about how it plays out in game. I mean...
You spend all that time trying to get around that Timberwolf's LRMs to get a good shot. Then whap whap you fall down, your mech is all broke and on fire and stuff. You look up and the Timby is literally looking at its gun barrels and starring in shock. The com crackles and a giddy Star Adder (see what I did there?) is laughing hysterically at his new toys.
Not boring
Don't make me mention the Blood Asp... it's almost the worst canon configured clan omni, the most misused chasis out there. Ok I actually think there are some worse ones, the Ebon Jaguar comes to mind. But it ain't boring! And boy is it pretty.
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I feel like I've given you a complex. ;D
whether or not they are boring is entirely subjective.
Heavy Lasers are a good time I guess.
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Having been a follower of Clan Star Adder pretty much since FM: Crusader Clans came out (and how could I not, considering how closely they're tied to the Blood Spirits throughout their publication history?), I have to say that I don't find them to boring as I initially believed them to be, even though they (like most of the Homeworld Clans) could certainly use more page-time and more characters to connect with before they feel like anything but a plot device.
I think they're proving the most Darwinist aspects of Clan society absolutely right, and in a different way than other such extreme (and extremely effective) examples like Alaric or Malvina. They've proven, at the expense of their greatest rivals (not just the Blood Spirits, but the Invading Clans as a whole, not to mention the Steel Vipers at the eleventh hour!), that they have what it takes to win: superior planning and forethought in every action, leveraging their power to get results when they can and manipulating those around them when they can't, and for striking the perfect balance between upholding the most honorable of Clan rules and standards and being willing to do what it takes in a situation to win.
I think the time jump between the time period of the Wars of Reaving, the Supplemental and ISP 3 is about 50 years or so before the 3145 mark, so if we're going forward now to, say, 3150...I'd say this would be the perfect time to bring in whatever is coming the Inner Sphere's way from the direction of the Homeworlds. I think the arrival of such a game-changing force at THIS particular point in time, with Clans Wolf and Jade Falcon poised to make a run for Terra and possibly claiming the ilClanship for themselves (and anyone who's read the Clan Wolf thread since last year's GenCon event knows who they're rooting for!), makes the idea of Clan Star Adder and Friends dropping in on (what I hope) is a completely unexpected (because of the Blackout, which is STILL in effect!) Inner Sphere that much more delicious.
And if that is what is coming for us Clan fans, I can't honestly say who I'd be cheering for, just because I don't have a clue who the players are even gonna be for the ilClan book. After all, nobody ever expects the Scorpion Inquisition.
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And if that is what is coming for us Clan fans, I can't honestly say who I'd be cheering for, just because I don't have a clue who the players are even gonna be for the ilClan book. After all, nobody ever expects the Scorpion Inquisition.
Man I hope the scorpions are ok. I love those guys.
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And if that is what is coming for us Clan fans, I can't honestly say who I'd be cheering for, just because I don't have a clue who the players are even gonna be for the ilClan book. After all, nobody ever expects the Scorpion Inquisition.
I can handle the Scorpion Inquisition, just not a Star Adder colonoscopy ... :o
Quite look forward to the HW Clans being ground into dust. }:)
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I'm with you Tassa.
Let the IS clans fight it out for Terra. Wolf wins and declares Ilclanship. I think the homeworld clans getting wind of that should logicially bring them into the fray. If they have good intelligence (and they probably should) they will hear a genetic abomination with a false bloodname took over Clan Wolf and is claiming to be Ilclan. Nothing should scream taint louder to them.
If that doesn't bring them in, then I'll assume they are not coming.
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http://benhrome.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/the-supremacy-rises/
And it has begun (to a certain degree) ...
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I can handle the Scorpion Inquisition, just not a Star Adder colonoscopy ... :o
Quite look forward to the HW Clans being ground into dust. }:)
Hey man at least for one day WE ARE RIGHT!!!!!
Adders honor their agreement with the Horses in Ghostbear's April Fools joke!
"Reunited and it feels so good, reunited and it's understood..."
Tomorrow, back to wanting to burn the taint out.
Oh, and damn you all for being right about the Adders in the AFD joke O0
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IMHO the most interesting is that they may even consider the return of the Homeclans in the ilClan Story arc.
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Oh, and damn you all for being right about the Adders in the AFD joke O0
Yeah that was me. ;D
Don't worry though. I'm sure there are little bits of truth in there.
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Yeah that was me. ;D
Don't worry though. I'm sure there are little bits of truth in there.
My guess is a lot of the IS stuff is going to be accurate enough.
I did ask Ben to have the Adders on Terra next time we see them... guess I got my wish.
Now what exactly is a Blood Asp Ultra????
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My guess is a lot of the IS stuff is going to be accurate enough.
I did ask Ben to have the Adders on Terra next time we see them... guess I got my wish.
Now what exactly is a Blood Asp Ultra????
My guess for the Blood Asp Ultra is a variant using some stuff like the class 40 firestorm auto cannon :D
It seems that everybodies are going to take a beating.... just if :D
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All of the silliness of that April Fool's Day posting aside, I think the ilClan book would be subpar if ALL of the surviving Clans weren't represented in it. Such an event should be epic in scope and if it doesn't involve the Homeworld Clans and their debut in the Inner Sphere, it just won't carry the same weight that such a title implies.
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All of the silliness of that April Fool's Day posting aside, I think the ilClan book would be subpar if ALL of the surviving Clans weren't represented in it. Such an event should be epic in scope and if it doesn't involve the Homeworld Clans and their debut in the Inner Sphere, it just won't carry the same weight that such a title implies.
100% agreed. And if I thought the isolationist clans were up to it, I guess I could see CSA leading this thing.
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All of the silliness of that April Fool's Day posting aside, I think the ilClan book would be subpar if ALL of the surviving Clans weren't represented in it. Such an event should be epic in scope and if it doesn't involve the Homeworld Clans and their debut in the Inner Sphere, it just won't carry the same weight that such a title implies.
and one Clan sticking it's head up again to have it's head chopped off. Hopefully this book makes the Jihad look like the spoilt brat hissy fit that it was.
We should start a book on how many nukes the Regulans throw around.
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100% agreed. And if I thought the isolationist clans were up to it, I guess I could see CSA leading this thing.
Eh, they may have isolationist tendencies now (now as in post-WoR), but the Star Adders have consistently been characterized as having a burning desire to lead a new Crusade against the Inner Sphere and to do so their way. The only reason they haven't done so already is because they know (again, I'm speaking in terms of post-WoR when we last saw them in present tense) they aren't ready yet.
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I agree that CSA is willing; my doubts are whether they are able. If they do end up trying for it in the ilClan book, I hope the justification is pretty strong. The IS Clans will need to be convinced. I can't imagine they will be so weak or the CSA so strong that they will not offer really punishing resistance to absorption/annihilation. I don't have anything particularly against CSA. To the contrary, I applaud them for annihilating CSV. That said, I do think they would be deeply confused if not horrified by the current (3145) state of the IS Clans.
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I agree that CSA is willing; my doubts are whether they are able. If they do end up trying for it in the ilClan book, I hope the justification is pretty strong. The IS Clans will need to be convinced. I can't imagine they will be so weak or the CSA so strong that they will not offer really punishing resistance to absorption/annihilation. I don't have anything particularly against CSA. To the contrary, I applaud them for annihilating CSV. That said, I do think they would be deeply confused if not horrified by the current (3145) state of the IS Clans.
Probably not. They would simply say that the current state of the IS Clans proves that they are tainted.
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Probably not. They would simply say that the current state of the IS Clans proves that they are tainted.
To be fair, given how far the IS Clans have fallen from their old ideals since Revival...would they be wrong?
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Justification could be to bring the *Tainted* back into the true path, led by the Homeclans. Maybe even justified by a new form of religion (Cobra influence).
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Well, if any clan was built from the founding to lead invasions, it's the Adders (ok maybe the Wolf too).
The Adders consider it their destiny to unite the clans and invade the IS. It's fitting the only way the clans would ever win was if they united. Unfortunately, no one wanted to listen so the Adders had to remove all those obstacles.
Tassa pretty much summed up my thoughts; if the rebuilding goes well the Adders will want to launch a new crusade.
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We should start a book on how many nukes the Regulans throw around.
1/2 on it'll be all of them :)
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So does everyone have a particular unit in Clan Star Adder that they favor?
Would it surprise you all to know that I have *four* that I like quite a bit? ^-^
First, the Quasar Keshik. I greatly prefer them to the senior Keshik, and they have a cool-sounding name. I am also quite fond of both the 9th Armored Cavalry (the "Spirit Crushers") and the 73rd Adder Cavaliers (the "Scourge of the Highlands"), both because of their awesome backstory holding out against the Blood Spirits on Priori during the Absorption War, and because the anti-Highlanders trappings and imagery of the 73rd works just as well against the Blood Spirits as it does the actual Highlanders, because the Spirits have a great deal of Scots influence. Finally, I enjoy the 1st Star Sentinels Cluster, because it uses my chosen Clan's equipment and tactics...I just dread the idea of seeing a Blood Kite in Kappa colors, LOL.
I always thought that these particular four units, perhaps with the 5th Assault Cluster because it was the Cluster that led the charge on Albion that broke the Spirits, would've made the best choices to form a new Beta Galaxy. That's how I would've done it, and most certainly in my own fiction will be doing so.
I even have a couple of Star Adder characters I whipped up for a story I was going to write: Sonya LeFabre, whom I was going to place in command of the 1st Star Sentinels, and Jackson Cannon, a hulking brute of an Elemental in Corona armor that would be Sonya's right-hand man. I had an epic tale of rivalry between Sonya and a Blood Spirit warrior that was going to span the ages from the Absorption War all the way to the Spirits' last stand on Haven...but alas, canon kinda made parts of it impossible. :(
Sorry, but I felt like sharing today. ;D
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I was slightly disappointed that there wasn't a side story of the 73rd Adder Cavaliers heading to Huntress to test themselves against the Northwind Highlanders before the SLDF headed back to the Inner Sphere.
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There could be an encounter if the Adders attack the IS in DA.
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I don't think it'll have nearly the same impact now that Macleod Connery (one of my favorite Adders) is no longer with us.
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There could be an encounter if the Adders attack the IS in DA.
Shame the Highlanders are all but gone.
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Highlanders never die ;)
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[rockon]
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Tassa, welcome to the dark side! ;D
I LOVE the Adder 5th Assault (prior to the whole their Horses now thing) the part in WoR where they beat the piss out of the Burrocks on that Bear planet is awesome. Plus they were the premier Adder cluster. Since they are all gone now I've shifted to the 6th.
I like the 383rd as well, cuz I'm a MOPAR guy and I love anything 383. I also like the 1st Star Sentinels.
I like the assault clusters, the idea of of 5/8 heavies and mediums and 4/6 assaults running together make me very happy.
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I had an epic tale of rivalry between Sonya and a Blood Spirit warrior that was going to span the ages from the Absorption War all the way to the Spirits' last stand on Haven...but alas, canon kinda made parts of it impossible. :(
Sorry, but I felt like sharing today. ;D
THIS IS YOUR SURKAIREDE! - My favorite Star Adder quote, Dembe N'Buta. Quasar keshik is cool too.
Problem with the Wars of Reaving (and a good thing, too) is it tends to be second, third, fourth-hand information passed on through successions of agents at times. We here on the forum have been told a number of times in the past that much is accurate, but not everything, and not all the time. So there is room for trying anything.
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Well, I was going to have Stanislov N'Buta lead the Quasar Keshik, the 5th Assault Cluster, the 73rd Adder Cavaliers, the 9th Armored Cavalry, and the 1st Star Sentinels (in their first blooding as an anti-Blood Spirit unit) to lead the initial invasion of York, and that's where my Blood Spirit character and my Star Adder character would meet in combat for the first time since the battlefields of the Absorption War... the 1st Star Sentinels would engage her 29th Blood Drinkers Cluster (fun story behind this unit that can actually work in canon!), and they'd meet for the last time during the Adders' final destruction of the Spirits on Haven. It'd take a little liberty with canon, sure, but it can actually fit almost seamlessly.
Sorry for boring you all with that, but now that I'm starting to not hate the Adders on principle anymore, I find myself much more invested in telling this story at long last.
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TBH it does sound like a pretty interesting story!
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Thanks!
It all stems from a discrepancy that I found in the Spirits' entry in the Crusader Clans book. One of the secondline Clusters mentions a sister unit from its parent Galaxy that was destroyed in the Absorption War, the 66th Crimson Guards, and mentions that the 66th was transferred to a frontline unit and redesignated the 29th Blood Drinkers. Couple that with the fact that there is a single reference that Omega Galaxy consists of seven Clusters, but only lists six...and voila, I claimed myself my own "canon" unit, which for some spoooooooky mysterious reason (editorial mistake, lol) doesn't appear on the rolls. :)
Hell, they could even have *survived* the Wars of Reaving if I really wanted, wandering the Deep Periphery with a small civilian convoy BSG-style while they spend the rest of eternity hating everyone else. ;D
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T_K, that kind of post is exactly what I most love about BT.
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I like any Falcon that is dead ... ^-^
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I think it's an awesome idea.
Write it!
Hell, break it up into chapters and send it to Battlecorps. They could use some fiction. And it is exactly what they like; smaller role characters set against the backdrop of larger canon events. The invasion of York through Haven is an awesome timeline for it.
If I may make one suggestion, instead of an epic stand off at the end, have both warriors ready their mechs for battle. Then the Adders just glass the planet. Show the Adder character as pissed off about not having the chance at a final duel and denied the right to honor in battle.
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Hey guys I'm back after a long hiatus. I'm a Shark Fox fan first and foremost, but I've always loved the Star Adders as well. After a few days catching up on the thread, I was surprised to see that many of my Foxy brethren aren't Adder fans, too. I've always seen the Foxes and Adders as Clan Grownup. While other clans strut and orate and posture, these two clans keep their heads down, stay focused, and get the job done. What the Sea Foxes are for money, the Star Adders are for power. They're on the same wavelength, hence why they always liked and respected one another.
So mainly I'm thinking, what would I do if I were a Star Adder ilKhan planning a new invasion of the Inner Sphere? To me, the easy answer is to look back at the last operation they planned. Operation: KLONDIKE. Which, btw, was wildly successful.
That seemed to follow four phases. Phase One: intelligence gathering. Mostly sigint gathered from deep space, well away from major jump points, but with a few closer-in listening posts. Phase Two: space superiority. Both jump points and even some pirate points for all five Pentagon worlds were hit simultaneously. Every KF capable ship was neutralized: disabled, captured, or destroyed. Minutes later, every Pentagon world was cut off for all time from the others. Along with all avenues of escape for dropships. Phase three was what most clans think of as the whole campaign: drops onto each isolated world. Phase Four was consolidation and assimilation of the conquered.
The problems of KLONDIKE were very similar to the problems of the IS invasion. Three key differences come to mind. First, the sheer scale of the Inner Sphere. Second, the level of devastation; even at its worst the IS hasn't seen a total disintegration of civil order and technology base as the Pentagon worlds saw. Finally, the IS is forewarned about the existence and intentions of the Clans.
If I were an Adder, I'd be trying to replicated the conditions of KLONDIKE as closely as possible. Find ways to grow the home clans' combined Touman, attrite the opposing forces and their infrastructure, partition them into manageable, bite-sized chunks (for the last, I'd be desperate to figure out the technology behind the Fortress Republic). I'd try to trigger a total social collapse, destroying their tech base, ruin their economy, poison their faith in their public institutions. Read some books about the KGB and GRU (Mitrokhin's book is great for this, so is Viktor Suvorov's series) and what they tried to do. I'd also have thoroughly infiltrated the IS with my Watch operatives, if nothing else to monitor them for threats. The Adders and Sharks were the only two clans to take systemic intelligence gathering seriously (though the Wolves in some eras came close). I can't make them unlearn the lessons they learned in REVIVAL; that cat's out of the bag. But I can work to keep the information asymmetry in my favor as much as possible.
Anyway, that seems like the most Adder-ish way to do it.
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I think it comes down to what we were talking about the other day. You have latched onto the pragmatic part of Clan Sea Fox. Rebs and I seem to be more attracted to the idealism and romanticism of Clan Sea Fox. (Also both seem attracted to literature and journalism) but I wonder how the other sea foxes do. Bergie is into math. Anyways, enough star adder thread hijack from me.
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Wellspring, welcome back!
That's a really concise comparison between Klondike and what could be.
I agree with most of it but have to wonder what would be delaying the invasion part. The only thing I can think of is Fortress Republic. It's possible the homeworlds still want to come but do not want to deal with it and are waiting for the Republic to drop it.
Anybody's guess at this point (well except that one guy who called dibs on the future of the homeworld clans).
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Wellspring, welcome back!
That's a really concise comparison between Klondike and what could be.
I agree with most of it but have to wonder what would be delaying the invasion part. The only thing I can think of is Fortress Republic. It's possible the homeworlds still want to come but do not want to deal with it and are waiting for the Republic to drop it.
Anybody's guess at this point (well except that one guy who called dibs on the future of the homeworld clans).
It's great to be back! (And yeah kitsune I think you have a point about the pragmatism thing... I still think of "What do you require" the same way that I do Babylon 5's Morden when he asks "What do you want?" But remember the Star Adders have their own brand of idealism-- just powered by a different set of ideals.)
I'd say my answer is pretty simple. 3145 isn't anywhere near enough time for the HW clans to be anywhere near big enough to stage an invasion. Even if they were the size of the original Revival-era clans, the tech difference has eroded and a lot of the surprise factor is lost. Meanwhile, while things aren't rosy in the IS, they're still better than they were 3025-era, which itself wasn't anywhere near as devastated as they'd need to be to match the desperate exhaustion of the SLDF remnants after the Pentagon Civil War.
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Adders... Idealism???
No way!
I mean we may know exactly how to take back Terra, but as long as everyone does what we says we should have no problem making it happen. If you disagree we'll just kill you but no big deal. ;D
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Thats what I mean. The Star Adders are straight pragmatism. Not alot of ... culture there? If those dudes wrote a novel it would be to hold a table up.
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Thats what I mean. The Star Adders are straight pragmatism. Not alot of ... culture there? If those dudes wrote a novel it would be to hold a table up.
They'd never waste the paper. They'd be more likely to print an anthology of great military commanders through time. I mean, if they haven't printed several already.
Look, the Adders seem to be the clan designed to fight strategic wars really well. If you take the shackles of zellbringen away they could be truly scary. Put them in charge of three other clans and they could be devastating.
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Adders... Idealism???
No way!
I mean we may know exactly how to take back Terra, but as long as everyone does what we says we should have no problem making it happen. If you disagree we'll just kill you but no big deal. ;D
Have you read Kissinger's Diplomacy? A lot of ideologies that don't seem to be idealistic really are. They don't conform to 21st century western ideals, but that doesn't mean that they don't conform to any ideals. They have a goal, and in their mind it's what's best for everyone.
The Adders really do want to conquer the Inner Sphere and convert all of humanity to the Clan Way. Of course, their formulation of the Clan Way is slightly different from the other clans'-- but ironically that's in the direction of being ever-so-slightly more acceptable to IS citizens, not less.
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Although I've been a Clan Wolf guy since the day they showed up, I've always liked the Star Adders (as well as the Coyote's). I've tried to find any & all info I could get on Clan Star Adder, but I wanted to make sure I read it all...
So far, I've gone through...
Field Manual: Crusader Clans
Field Manual: Updates
Wars of Reaving
Wars of Reaving Supplemental
Historical: Operation Klondike
Era Digest: Golden Century
The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky
What else am I missing...or have I read it all? Until they bring out more Home World Clans info...I feel like I'm being starved for info! LOL
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You got them all, I think
We are definitely starved out here in the black. So much left open...
Occasionally some IS fan boy drops by and pokes fun or says were all dead and irrelevant.
I hope whatever the next glimpse of the homeworlds is becomes epic like WoR.
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I hope for more epic than WoR! LOL 8)
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I hope for more epic than WoR! LOL 8)
Could be anything from better than WoR to they reinvented Cheetos and gave up fighting to eat them. We've had zero clues for a very long time.
I only ask that it does not involve the WoB. Though Ghostbear had a hand in the MD stuff in the Jihad and we know the homeworld area of space is his pet project. I would not be shocked.
The more I think about the Ilclan book, the less likely I think a homeworld appearance is coming.
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Ya never know...they could invent the tactical imaging tattoo's from the cartoon! LOL
If they WoB shows up in the Home World...hopefully they are completely wiped out by the Clans. Would be rather entertaining to know that the main enemy of the WoB ends up killing them off.
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Ya never know...they could invent the tactical imaging tattoo's from the cartoon! LOL
Those tattoos already exist, actually...that's Enhanced Imaging, IIRC.
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Yeah, I know, I was just trying to make a silly joke
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You got them all, I think
We are definitely starved out here in the black. So much left open...
Occasionally some IS fan boy drops by and pokes fun or says were all dead and irrelevant.
I hope whatever the next glimpse of the homeworlds is becomes epic like WoR.
Some just write crazy rap parodies...
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I hope for more epic than WoR! LOL 8)
So epic it makes 'Da Jiffad' look like a teddy bears picnic and creates a 'Herb v Rome' battle for destruction supremacy ...
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So epic it makes 'Da Jiffad' look like a teddy bears picnic and creates a 'Herb v Rome' battle for destruction supremacy ...
Check out Ghostbear's sig line... I think he wins
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If he wins, we loose.
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On the off chance that any Star Adder fans here aren't already aware, there is an interesting perspective worth checking out in the opening fiction piece from Operational Turning Points: REVIVAL Trials.
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I didn't realize that publication was out until I saw the post. I've only gotten through the opening fiction but I agree it is very interesting.
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I need to get this now
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On the off chance that any Star Adder fans here aren't already aware, there is an interesting perspective worth checking out in the opening fiction piece from Operational Turning Points: REVIVAL Trials.
After reading Cassius N'buta's speech I'll say this:
good luck to anyone in the way if the homeworlds get rebuilt and the other clans listen to the Adders
Wanna talk about what if's... Holy crap what if he'd finished that speech like he should have and said the Adders are the planners, organizers, and leaders... the generals.
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As I said in another thread; after reading that I'm convinced that the Star Adders are the smartest clan in the homeworlds.
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As I said in another thread; after reading that I'm convinced that the Star Adders are the smartest clan in the homeworlds.
IMHO, anyone who'd read their FM: Crusader Clans entry back in the day should have been convinced of that already.
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IMHO, anyone who'd read their FM: Crusader Clans entry back in the day should have been convinced of that already.
The Wolves need to be in the discussion pre-Revival/split etc.
And we see that with Ulric
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IMHO, anyone who'd read their FM: Crusader Clans entry back in the day should have been convinced of that already.
[applause]
However, Cassius N`Buta should have felt like -> [soapbox]
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IMHO, anyone who'd read their FM: Crusader Clans entry back in the day should have been convinced of that already.
Exactly. We already knew that the rest of the Clans were jealous of the Star Adder "sober and sane assessment" ability.
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[applause]
However, Cassius N`Buta should have felt like -> [soapbox]
There's no emoji for a kindergarden teacher...
Trying to figure out if he didn't address the Shark khan with "the Adders are the clan of generals" because he wasn't sure "Adders are the clan of cat wranglers" was better.
Ultimately, I think he realized that he could never quell the squabbling, whining, and selfishness of the others in order to truly unite the clans.
The next 50 years of the clans (particularly the Adders) basically are set on course from that moment. The invaders leave, then the Adders play their cards one the Burrocks, then their alliances with the other two snakes, finally their moves in the WoR.
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I worry a little bit that the Adders are being set up to fall for their own arrogance. Don't get me wrong, they were right in 3048. Much of what they have done since, they have been successful. Among the Clans I rate them as extremely dangerous to the Inner Sphere.
But after replaying that fiction, that scene, in my head a few times, I feel like the writers are setting the Adders up a little bit. As the Clan that got laughed out of the room basically, but then comes back so determined to prove they are/were right that they acquire a trait of arrogance once they are on top of the world and finally masters of the Clan universe.
I could see the writers potentially trying to foreshadow that.
In movies where there is a scene where the main character basically becomes a laughing stock, there is often thereafter a revenge, but that is often followed by something that reminds that character of how far they have strayed and how they have become the thing they hated in the first place.
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I'd like to take a moment and declare my newly reinforced loyalty to Clan Star Adder. While the wolves will always have a soft spot in my heart going all the way back to Mechwarrior 2, and the BAMF that is Ulric, I believe the Star Adders best typify what the original SLDF was known for.
They are not always flashy, but the best warriors are the ones that win through preparation and the intelligent application of force. Their leaders have always seemed to be the stellar general types that are blisteringly competent but never attention seeking.
So trothkin, I hope you will accept this Abtakha to the fold.
Seyla
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I'd like to take a moment and declare my newly reinforced loyalty to Clan Star Adder. While the wolves will always have a soft spot in my heart going all the way back to Mechwarrior 2, and the BAMF that is Ulric, I believe the Star Adders best typify what the original SLDF was known for.
They are not always flashy, but the best warriors are the ones that win through preparation and the intelligent application of force. Their leaders have always seemed to be the stellar general types that are blisteringly competent but never attention seeking.
So trothkin, I hope you will accept this Abtakha to the fold.
Seyla
I could not say it better myself. Since the inception (real world) of the Clans & their agressive plunge in to the Inner Sphere...I've ALWAYS been a Clan Wolf fan.
When they split, I wasn't sure which to follow. I liked Phelan, but what became Clan Wolf-in-Exile seemed weak and a major shadow of what they were originally. What became of Clan Wolf once Phelan & crew left...was great, but again, a major shadow of what they were.
Splitting up Clan Wolf is an understandable decision game wise, but for all other intents and purposes...it sucks. I was never much of a Crusader...but I did like what Vlad did with the Wolves. You really can't say he didn't lead them out of ruin.
At that same time, I did want to like other clans, but could never bring myself to think any were "above" the original Wolves...but Clan Star Adder was always the closest after the Wolves to my ideal of how a Clan should be.
Now, fast forward some 20 years later (in real life), and I'm having the same problem, but worse. Wars of Reaving go down, and it convinces me that Clan Star Adder IS what a true Clan should be, and heeds the Kerensky vision completely (aside from the original Wolves).
Problem is...because I've always been a Clan Wolf fan...you've got Alaric leading the Wolves probably to Terra to become the ilClan. Granted, I don't care for the brother/sister heritage...but you can't argue with his intelligence & battlefield prowess. The man is a literal genius tactically (politically probably but I'm not 100% on that fact...but it does show here & there).
So, again, I'm torn between the two, and I just simply cannot pick one to be my primary one so I'm left with one choice...split decision again...
For the Inner Sphere Clans...I'm a fan of the Wolf Empire & support them fully.
For the Home World Clans...I'm a fan of Clan Star Adder & support them fully.
In the end, this will probably mean that the two will go head to head...and I'm looking forward to it!!!
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"Might is right" vs "Might we be right?"
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LOL pretty much
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Hmmm... wasn't so long ago that more and more posters were happy to join the anti-Adder camp. It's strange to find people doing the reverse.
This also makes me even stronger in my opinion that the Adders never bought into the hype
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Well, as you can tell from my previous posts, I'm not just jumping in...and I've never been anti-Adder! LOL
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Nothing wrong with a favorite in the Home Worlds and a fave in the IS. The Coyotes are my favorite in the Kerensky Cluster, but the Adders are to be respected for seeming to be the head of the beast.
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Hmmm... wasn't so long ago that more and more posters were happy to join the anti-Adder camp. It's strange to find people doing the reverse.
This also makes me even stronger in my opinion that the Adders never bought into the hype
Oh, I'm no fan of the Adders. Never have been. That said, they're my last hope of seeing the Bears and snakes get pasted into a fine slurry in a blaze of white-hot nuclear vengeance. In that respect, I'm pulling for them.
Please, don't let me down guys. I don't have much left to hope for.
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Hmmm... wasn't so long ago that more and more posters were happy to join the anti-Adder camp. It's strange to find people doing the reverse.
This also makes me even stronger in my opinion that the Adders never bought into the hype
Yeah, I've been an Adder fan longer than any other faction; the first two BT books I ever got were TRO 3060 and FM Crusader Clans, and between the Blood Asp in the former and their write-up in the latter, they quickly became my favorites. Of course shortly after that I discovered the Inner Sphere in general and the Word of Blake in particular, but I never stopped being a closet Adder fan. I was glad to see them reign supreme at the end of the Reaving Wars; they certainly deserved it more than any other Homeworld Clan.
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I'm trying to reconcile information between the Field Manuals and WoR. FM: Crusader clans has Hannibal Banacek listed as a bloodnamed star colonel and the write up implies he was in command during the Burrock Absorption.
However WoR lists his age as 44 in 3086... This would make him, at the oldest, 17 when he was a blood named Star Colonel in command of the premier Adder assault unit.
Is there an explanation somewhere I missed?
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I'm trying to reconcile information between the Field Manuals and WoR. FM: Crusader clans has Hannibal Banacek listed as a bloodnamed star colonel and the write up implies he was in command during the Burrock Absorption.
However WoR lists his age as 44 in 3086... This would make him, at the oldest, 17 when he was a blood named Star Colonel in command of the premier Adder assault unit.
Is there an explanation somewhere I missed?
The math working out his age as 44 (in WoR) is wrong. It says he was born in 3037, which would make him 49 in 3086. He was 20 when he earned his Bloodname and shortly after that he gained command of the 5th Assault. Remember, FMCC is set in 3059, which means the Absorption had taken place earlier that year. Yeah, he's young, but that's pretty normal in the Clans. Natasha Kerensky was a Star Colonel at 18, after all.
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After reading Cassius N'buta's speech I'll say this:
good luck to anyone in the way if the homeworlds get rebuilt and the other clans listen to the Adders
Wanna talk about what if's... Holy crap what if he'd finished that speech like he should have and said the Adders are the planners, organizers, and leaders... the generals.
And then another Clan would argue that no they were the Generals, and that Clan would be the Fire Mandrills. At which point, there would be great laughter with disagreements from the other Clans on who was what. The thing is that it would end the same way, but the Adders' hand would be on the table at that point which is bad for the Adder's plans. Let's face it, telling the rest of the Clans that you are the Generals or 'planners' as N'buta would have said creates jeers and feuds because the Clans' nature is to be on top. In fact for the Adders' ambitions to succeed as they have in WoR, N'buta can never reveal what he wanted to say that day.
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I'm trying to reconcile information between the Field Manuals and WoR. FM: Crusader clans has Hannibal Banacek listed as a bloodnamed star colonel and the write up implies he was in command during the Burrock Absorption.
However WoR lists his age as 44 in 3086... This would make him, at the oldest, 17 when he was a blood named Star Colonel in command of the premier Adder assault unit.
Is there an explanation somewhere I missed?
The best answer was above already, but... Almost had Marcos Radick beat to the speedy bloodname! That would have been cool if it had been Hannibal Banacek who did it. You had me thinking about it too.
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Hmmm... wasn't so long ago that more and more posters were happy to join the anti-Adder camp. It's strange to find people doing the reverse.
This also makes me even stronger in my opinion that the Adders never bought into the hype
Well while I have been a long-time Adder fan I will be the first to admit that they don't really have much personality as a Clan that sets them apart from the other Clans (Falcons have their prideful manner, Sharks have their mercantile aspect, Coyotes cling to old feuds, Cobras have their Cloisters, Mandrills have their Kindraas, Hellions jump before they look aggressiveness, etc). Even at the Cluster level the only unit that really stood out was the 73rd Adder Cavaliers (Scourge of the Highlands) and then when given the opportunity to challenge elements of the Northwind Highlands, they do nothing :P.
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And then another Clan would argue that no they were the Generals, and that Clan would be the Fire Mandrills. At which point, there would be great laughter with disagreements from the other Clans on who was what. The thing is that it would end the same way, but the Adders' hand would be on the table at that point which is bad for the Adder's plans. Let's face it, telling the rest of the Clans that you are the Generals or 'planners' as N'buta would have said creates jeers and feuds because the Clans' nature is to be on top. In fact for the Adders' ambitions to succeed as they have in WoR, N'buta can never reveal what he wanted to say that day.
Clan Fire Mandrill ARE the Generals! The Washington Generals!
That...joke was much better in my head.
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The Adders have at least as much personality as Clan Wolf, if not more. They're the Clan that likes units that are heavy but fast/maneuverable (i.e. the Blood Asp, Kingfisher, Timber Wolf, Night Gyr and Grendel); they're meticulous planners, and strategic rather than tactical thinkers; they have the internal tensions that come from having Absorbed the Burrocks; they have a special position, the Adder's Adjutant, specifically to give their civilian castes a direct voice to the Khans; they adhere to zellbrigen in all but the most extreme circumstances. The Adders have plenty of personality, but it's not delivered through an easily-digestible single-sentence description like most of the other Clans.
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Well while I have been a long-time Adder fan I will be the first to admit that they don't really have much personality as a Clan that sets them apart from the other Clans (Falcons have their prideful manner, Sharks have their mercantile aspect, Coyotes cling to old feuds, Cobras have their Cloisters, Mandrills have their Kindraas, Hellions jump before they look aggressiveness, etc). Even at the Cluster level the only unit that really stood out was the 73rd Adder Cavaliers (Scourge of the Highlands) and then when given the opportunity to challenge elements of the Northwind Highlands, they do nothing :P.
Tha Adders have Gantt Charts ...
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The Adders have at least as much personality as Clan Wolf, if not more. They're the Clan that likes units that are heavy but fast/maneuverable (i.e. the Blood Asp, Kingfisher, Timber Wolf, Night Gyr and Grendel); they're meticulous planners, and strategic rather than tactical thinkers; they have the internal tensions that come from having Absorbed the Burrocks; they have a special position, the Adder's Adjutant, specifically to give their civilian castes a direct voice to the Khans; they adhere to zellbrigen in all but the most extreme circumstances. The Adders have plenty of personality, but it's not delivered through an easily-digestible single-sentence description like most of the other Clans.
Very few clans espouse and engrain leadership, rationale, and common sense in their warriors. I say there are 3 clans:
Wolves
Adders
Ghost Bears
All the other clans were built around some over simplified stereotype (you can say that about the Bears too)
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... but it's not delivered through an easily-digestible single-sentence description like most of the other Clans.
And they lack a one-sided novel that pushes them beyond any other clan - like the other most favored Clans have.
I think the WoR was useful for them to finish the first steps in their master plan. They know they have to unite the Clans if they ever want to see victory over the corrupt successor states. And no they have not yet united the homeworlds after the WoR. So i say it is only a first step.
But if they ever will succeed ?
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They (and the other Homeclans) have the best opportunity ever to fulfill the *Auld Dreem*.
50+ years to prepare.
To develope new Technologies and improve the warriors`acumen.
The more I think about a new Invasion the more I would like to see them ... however ...
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After reading OP: Revival...I have to say, Cassius N'buta's speech was dead on. Look at the write ups of the clans basic tactics/strategies and tell me that the majority of them don't mirror his description of the specific Clan during his speech. I cannot wait for more Home World Clan stuff to come out...I'd REALLY like for the Star Adders to be able to unite the remaining Home World Clans under one banner (even if they kept their identities separate)...come to the I.S. from the bottom up (reverse of the original invasion) and make the 1st invasion look like child's play!
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Am I the only one who can't read the web preview of OTP:Revival Trials? And the quick preview is too small to be readable. Not sure where to post to alert CGL-- this was true on both DriveThruRPG and RPGNow. It's not on the battletech website yet.
With that said, i can image what he might have said. I've loved the Star Adders since FM:CC came out. I consider them my second favorite after the other Grownup Clan: the Shark Foxes. The Adders pretty much do everything right, but I think alot of their flavor doesn't really emerge until you operate at the campaign/strategic level. On the tabletop, be it RPG or wargame, their real strengths don't emerge fully the way they do for other, seemingly more "flavorful" clans. And they weren't front and center in the fiction the way the falcons or wolves were.
I think what made many people give the adders a second look was Wars of Reaving. You could watch the Adders play the arithmetic of the Great Council and ride the military and political balances of power all the way down. Always low-key, always careful to play things quietly, carefully, ruthlessly. There's a relentlessness to them that doesn't pop out at you on the first read. A rare vintage for the discerning palate. :)
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After reading OP: Revival...I have to say, Cassius N'buta's speech was dead on. Look at the write ups of the clans basic tactics/strategies and tell me that the majority of them don't mirror his description of the specific Clan during his speech. I cannot wait for more Home World Clan stuff to come out...I'd REALLY like for the Star Adders to be able to unite the remaining Home World Clans under one banner (even if they kept their identities separate)...come to the I.S. from the bottom up (reverse of the original invasion) and make the 1st invasion look like child's play!
I don't want to spoil the specifics. But I can't decide if his description of the Fire Mandrills' role was aimed at the enemy or at the Clans themselves ;D
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I don't want to spoil the specifics. But I can't decide if his description of the Fire Mandrills' role was aimed at the enemy or at the Clans themselves ;D
LOL yeah, that was a bit of a touchy description...but he handled it very well!
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The remaining home world clans are all sort of specialist outside of the Adders...
Cobras: aero
Coyotes: mechs
Lions: combined arms
The Adders are well rounded in their different units.
The Coyotes and Adders also appear to be extraordinary at spying and such.
There are certainly rolls to play. What if the Adders went so far as to reorganize each clan almost to the point of a phenotype or two. The Cobras become the aero space phenotype, all warriors are pilots or space crew (and proto pilots). The Coyotes only make mech warriors. The Lions maybe diversify a little bit with tankers and elementals. The Adders take and Enders Game approach and train generals to lead. It could explain the long time to reorganize and the long silence. It could also be terrifying for anyone else in the universe if all four clans are on board.
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The remaining home world clans are all sort of specialist outside of the Adders...
Cobras: aero
Coyotes: mechs
Lions: combined arms
The Adders are well rounded in their different units.
The Coyotes and Adders also appear to be extraordinary at spying and such.
There are certainly rolls to play. What if the Adders went so far as to reorganize each clan almost to the point of a phenotype or two. The Cobras become the aero space phenotype, all warriors are pilots or space crew (and proto pilots). The Coyotes only make mech warriors. The Lions maybe diversify a little bit with tankers and elementals. The Adders take and Enders Game approach and train generals to lead. It could explain the long time to reorganize and the long silence. It could also be terrifying for anyone else in the universe if all four clans are on board.
It is funny you should say that. I was brainstorming an AU where the Adders lead an invasion in 3145 ish. I did not have them specializing to that degree, but I had broken up the front line forces into "joint" galaxies where there's a cluster from each clan. This would give each clan a stake in every operation. This invasion would be more methodicalwith the intent being to overwhelm the LC industrial base and use it to churn out replacement gear and parts.
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I think the Adders will make sure they have massive forwarding operating bases if they invade. There's no real way to ensure they can capture production in the sphere without it being damaged. And once they start doing it pretty much guaranteed the house lords will start scorching the earth as they retreat.
I'm not convinced invasion is imminent anyway. There are too many boogeymen right now. I don't think clan Star Adder is the priority of the group.
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The remaining home world clans are all sort of specialist outside of the Adders...
Cobras: aero
I recall reading that the Cobras were trying to reshape themselves along the Diamond Shark model-- turning themselves into a merchant clan now that the Sharks are out of clanspace.
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I recall reading that the Cobras were trying to reshape themselves along the Diamond Shark model-- turning themselves into a merchant clan now that the Sharks are out of clanspace.
Yeah but they also have the premier aero and proto programs; both eugenics and hardware.
They can trade the hardware, the people are a tougher sell.
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There are certainly rolls to play. What if the Adders went so far as to reorganize each clan almost to the point of a phenotype or two. The Cobras become the aero space phenotype, all warriors are pilots or space crew (and proto pilots). The Coyotes only make mech warriors. The Lions maybe diversify a little bit with tankers and elementals. The Adders take and Enders Game approach and train generals to lead. It could explain the long time to reorganize and the long silence. It could also be terrifying for anyone else in the universe if all four clans are on board.
Would never happen either pre- or post-WoR. Any Khan who even proposed that would be quickly removed whether because people refused to give up their respective Clan identities without a fight or because they would recognize how much it would hurt them in any future invasion of the Inner Sphere.
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Yeah but they also have the premier aero and proto programs; both eugenics and hardware.
They can trade the hardware, the people are a tougher sell.
There's no law that says you can't be both a merchant clan and an aero clan. :)
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There's no law that says you can't be both a merchant clan and an aero clan. :)
Hell, if you're doing a lot of Deep Space Travel, carrying goods from location to location, it is in your best interest to have good Aero Support, quiaff?
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In the new ATOW companion we learned that the Sharks preferred phenotype (the one that has the most influence in the Clan) is aero. Which was a surprise, even though Karen Nagasawa was a pilot and the Clan had a number of pilot senior officers and aero-heavy clusters. We had a healthy conversation about this over on the Diamond Shark dedicated thread.
So apparently you can be merchant and aero. The Diamond Sharks were/are, and most of us just didn't notice.
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Would never happen either pre- or post-WoR. Any Khan who even proposed that would be quickly removed whether because people refused to give up their respective Clan identities without a fight or because they would recognize how much it would hurt them in any future invasion of the Inner Sphere.
It's a long shot for sure
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Even the Adders were only a proxy in the Revival Trials, they fought well and won two of three trials.
Not bad.
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I take it there is some good stuff about the adders in Operation Revival?
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I take it there is some good stuff about the adders in Operation Revival?
Not a lot, honestly...but what is there, is GOLD! Ugh...as much as I love the Wolves, I do wish the Adders were listened to during the Grand "how-ever-you-spell-it" meeting of clans.
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I take it there is some good stuff about the adders in Operation Revival?
Not much, but some diamonds and black pearls :)
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The preview PDFs at RPGNow and DriveThruRPG are broken. Does anyone know who I PM or what board I post to so I can let CGL know?
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The preview PDFs at RPGNow and DriveThruRPG are broken. Does anyone know who I PM or what board I post to so I can let CGL know?
DriveThru's was broken from the get go. My guess they don't work on purpose.
A 5 page preview kind of gives away the big surprise.
Even the Adders were only a proxy in the Revival Trials, they fought well and won two of three trials.
Not bad.
Would have gotten them into the invasion at least as a reserve. Which gets them to Tukayyid. Which gets the clans another win. Sorry I don't give a crud what anyone says, the Adders don't lose a planned fight like Tukayyid.
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Would have gotten them into the invasion at least as a reserve. Which gets them to Tukayyid. Which gets the clans another win. Sorry I don't give a crud what anyone says, the Adders don't lose a planned fight like Tukayyid.
Despite not giving a 'crud what anyone says', they could have been defeated on Tukayyid through no fault of their own. They didn't know what to expect with the ComGuards and would have spent time probing the ComGuards before moving on the attack. While the ComGuard tactics may not have been as effective against the Adders as they were against their Clan brethren, even the Adders have young hotheads with overblown egos that would have allowed them to be snared in some of the ComGuards' traps. Time which the ComGuards could have used to defeat the other Clans and redeploy additional forces against the Adders. Additional forces which could have easily pushed them beyond their supplies or combat ability to overcome (by the end of the battle even Clan Wolf was running out of ammunition).
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Something would have occurred that would have thrown out the Gantt Charts
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Fully speculative on my part for sure
I think the entire Tukayyid setup just played into the Adders favor.
Bid, um yeah, we bid our entire force. What's that you say? We're soft? We land last? }:) yeah K
Not saying the Adders would roll, it was Comstar not the FWL Guards (who the Adders stomped in the refusal).
The Adders never thought fighting the inner sphere would be easy. They knew the idea of mad max barbarians was crap. The one thing they would have done right was respected Comstar as a fighting force.
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The one thing they would have done right was respected Comstar as a fighting force.
Again, not necessarily. There were many Wolves that saw the ComGuards as inferior troops even as they were fighting them (especially as they were beating them seemingly with ease), including Galaxy Commander Conal Ward (who but despite losing the Khanship to Natasha Kerensky as Galaxy Commander was still a powerful man in Clan Wolf and one of the senior Wolf commanders on Tukayyid). Tristyn N'Buta (and his fall from grace) is proof that not all Adder commanders are infallible. He was being considered as a future commander of the Adder's Alpha Galaxy before a series of strategic blunders led to him being relegated to command of a solahma cluster.
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Clans would still lose Tuk, the Jaguars were crushed so fast that the Comguards were able to move reinforcements where needed. The Clans were defeated individually in detail and even if we were to switch the Adders for another reserve Clan the out come over all would be the same.
The Star Adders in this scenario would be with out one of its greatest strengths, Intel on the Comguards. Plus as with all the Clans at the end of a long supply chain fighting with the four lead Clans in this campaign. There is no way the Adders get the Mutts, Jags, Jade Turkeys and Bear Cubs to work together, to much animosity with this group. The Invasion was doomed to failure from the beginning with those four, it is like an episode of a reality TV show, worse personalities possible thrown together for entertainment.
Just be happy we were not part of that freak show called operation revival.
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The "under what conditions could the Clans have won on Tukayyid" debate has been raging for years and never has resolution because it is always a "what if" scenario based in part on people's opinions. My advice? let it go....
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Sure.
However what about Battle of Tukkayyid 2 in the current storyline?
This time led by an Adder ilKhan?
Versus the ROTS.
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Tukkayyid 2 Adders verses ROTS
Hmm, I would need to get the 3145 books. I am only up to date around 3085. So I could not comment accurately on it. Though to me it would be total speculation since we do not know what the home Clans have been up to in the new timeline. No Idea on equipment used or if there has been a tactical change in the home Clans approach to warfare. The strategy, tactics and equipment used would be important to look at in this scenario to accurately predict a possible out come. Aff?
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Totally random thoughts in the morning, Adder addition:
Could you imagine what was going through Stanislav N'Buta's head when he was putting together his final speech? I tried to explain how all this went down to someone who does not play, and came up with this dialog. Not that a non-player would get it, but I figured this thread would if anyone would.
"Ohhh, good idea, Stan the man with the master plan. Now that works. Andy will have to kill me for that. He might even shoot me right there on the spot. Really, I do not see how he could possibly not shoot me right there on the spot. He will have to shoot me, I'll make sure my face stays neutral until right there at that part and then crack a smile. Right there. Oh yeah, he will have to shoot me. I will make sure of it. Good thing the Hall of Khans is wrecked pretty good, or this plan would not be so great. Close quarters makes it all work. Hannibal will have a chance aboard the McKenna's Pride. Yes, there he will be just fine. There he will have a good chance to bop some sense into Andy. I am quite positive Andy will be be rather sensible, then, after he is put down.
"I sure do hope Hannibal Cannibal uses some of those old Terran pro-wrestling moves from the old holovids he is so fond of watching in his quarters... What a sight that will be. Too bad none of this works unless I get shot. I would love to be there to see it happen"
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N'buta knew two things
His sacrifice was likely, and would be for the good of the clans
Hannibal Banacek would avenge his death, and knew how to deal with the Vipers.
There seems to be good evidence of Adder khans grooming their successor. N'buta knew his sakhan would be prepared to take over.
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N'buta knew two things
His sacrifice was likely, and would be for the good of the clans
Hannibal Banacek would avenge his death, and knew how to deal with the Vipers.
There seems to be good evidence of Adder khans grooming their successor. N'buta knew his sakhan would be prepared to take over.
Wait, we're supposed to prepare GOOD Successors? I thought we were supposed to make them as crappy as possible so we look good in comparison!
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Wait, we're supposed to prepare GOOD Successors? I thought we were supposed to make them as crappy as possible so we look good in comparison!
Most of the surviving clans have a history of khans passing the torch to a groomed successor. The clans where some one gets mad and whacks the khan in a duel for the khanship all seem to have died or being dying.
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Most of the surviving clans have a history of khans passing the torch to a groomed successor. The clans where some one gets mad and whacks the khan in a duel for the khanship all seem to have died or being dying.
This is the Clans we're talking about. Whacking a Khan is ALWAYS an option! ;D
(I do agree that the ones that remain in both the HW and IS are, generally speaking, the more stable ones. Generally speaking.)
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Most of the surviving clans have a history of khans passing the torch to a groomed successor. The clans where some one gets mad and whacks the khan in a duel for the khanship all seem to have died or being dying.
Last time I checked the Ghost Bears, Wolves, Ravens and Jade Falcons are all still around.
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Time which the ComGuards could have used to defeat the other Clans and redeploy additional forces against the Adders. Additional forces which could have easily pushed them beyond their supplies or combat ability to overcome (by the end of the battle even Clan Wolf was running out of ammunition).
I think this is the main problem with a Tukayyid scenario. Plus, risking everything on a single roll of the dice is very counter to the Star Adder way of doing business.
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I am in agreement wellspring.
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Last time I checked the Ghost Bears, Wolves, Ravens and Jade Falcons are all still around.
And all are more level headed than the Hellions, Spirits, Mandrills, and Vipers.
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And all are more level headed than the Hellions, Spirits, Mandrills, and Vipers.
Ghost Bears willing to kill "allies" in order to kill Blakists and following Aletha Kabrinski's lead in dealing with the Nova Cats. Of course there is the Jade Falcon's Malvina Hazen and her Golden Ordun.
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N'buta knew two things
His sacrifice was likely, and would be for the good of the clans
Hannibal Banacek would avenge his death, and knew how to deal with the Vipers.
There seems to be good evidence of Adder khans grooming their successor. N'buta knew his sakhan would be prepared to take over.
Right on. At the heart of every joke is a nugget of the truth.
The nug I was digging in that silly little post of mine from yesterday is a chunk of ferro lamelor veritas. Gold has nothing on it, unless it's part of the paint scheme. O0
That is what makes the Adders different. They have plans that cover everything, including a mentioned but still nebulous (as far as fans know, anyway) master plan laid out by their founder. "Long game" is almost an inadequate term for the Adders' purposes.
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I think this is the main problem with a Tukayyid scenario. Plus, risking everything on a single roll of the dice is very counter to the Star Adder way of doing business.
Given the right opportunities, I believe they are going to agree to such a battle. They might even suggest it.
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He might even shoot me right there on the spot. Really, I do not see how he could possibly not shoot me right there on the spot. He will have to shoot me, I'll make sure my face stays neutral until right there at that part and then crack a smile. Right there. Oh yeah, he will have to shoot me. I will make sure of it.
There's no way Stanislav would have expected to be shot because weapons were not allowed in the Hall of Khans to begin with. Brett Andrews basically smuggled his weapon to the meeting and it was a shock to everyone when he pulled it out.
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There's no way Stanislav would have expected to be shot because weapons were not allowed in the Hall of Khans to begin with. Brett Andrews basically smuggled his weapon to the meeting and it was a shock to everyone when he pulled it out.
I would imagine that Stanislav N'Buta had many ways in which he learned things.
And who would be easier to spy upon than an ally? It could be quite easy him to know that Andrews totes a gun. We have absolutely no evidence that this was the only time Andrews armed himself for the Grand Council.
Andrews portrait in the WoR shows him wearing bullet-proof armor almost exactly like that worn by Nick K in Op Klondike. No other ilKhan is displayed wearing such a thing. If that is his portrait, then I feel that reflects his state of mind. So indeed, such a man might not have a laser pistol at every meeting; sometimes he might have two of them.
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I would imagine that Stanislav N'Buta had many ways in which he learned things.
And who would be easier to spy upon than an ally? It could be quite easy him to know that Andrews totes a gun. We have absolutely no evidence that this was the only time Andrews armed himself for the Grand Council.
In that case why wouldn't Stanislav wear a bulletproof vest himself, as well as a bulletproof ceremonial mask for good measure. He didin't have to die, the act of Brett Andrews shooting him would have been enough to discredit Andrews, so if Stanislav knew that Andrews could be armed he should have taken more precautions.
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The WoR text pretty much states N'buta thought dying was a possibility. He knew Andrews had pretty much lost it. His point was to provoke him.
No, he didn't plan on Andrews pulling out a gun and shooting him. And while he was confident Hannibal knew what to do; he probably did not expect him to give the ilkhan an Adder mask skull crusher finishing move.
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In that case why wouldn't Stanislav wear a bulletproof vest himself, as well as a bulletproof ceremonial mask for good measure. He didin't have to die, the act of Brett Andrews shooting him would have been enough to discredit Andrews, so if Stanislav knew that Andrews could be armed he should have taken more precautions.
You make good points, but...
The gun was from a desk in the McKenna's Pryde conference room executive offices. It was apparently sitting in there for some amount of time. Who knows how long, or how it got there, so I for one will not rule out the Adders setting up favorable ground for moving their plans forward.
He was sacrificing his life. So while I will not say Stanislav knew with 100% certainty a gun would be pulled on him and that he would be shot between the eyes, he knew something was going to happen. He was unafraid of death, regardless, and removed his mask for his speech, if we recall correctly.
Regardless of what the man knew and did not know, he more or less told Hannibal Banacek that he would one day understand. I feel for that reason, yes, the text strongly indicates that Stanislav N'Buta did know more than he was letting on, even to his own saKhan. He could have had his watch plant that gun there, simply setting up favorable conditions. Precautions that would have saved his life would then be counterproductive to making the machinery of Clan Justice begin to move again, and in the direction that he wanted it to go.
Because the alternative is couple too many convenient coincidences.
And the Adders are not the Coincidence Clan, that's the Coyotes. ;)
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There's no way Stanislav would have expected to be shot because weapons were not allowed in the Hall of Khans to begin with. Brett Andrews basically smuggled his weapon to the meeting and it was a shock to everyone when he pulled it out.
I don't know that it was a total shock.
Remember, Andrews thought the Adders were allies right up until they turned on him. They might well have known because he told them. Alternately, the Adders have a dedicated intelligence branch. They'd already seen him do something similar previously, to the Sharks, to kick off the WoR.
His WoR bio speculates that he might have been about to call out another clan when the Adders called him out instead; a pistol would have come in handy in that case. Also, keep in mind that this wasn't strictly speaking the Hall of Khans. It was an alternate location (the officers' conference room on McKenna's Pride) that was legally equivalent for the purposes of the meeting.
Here's one possible scenario. Imagine that Andrews was going to go after another Clan. He naturally coordinates with the Cobras and Adders, as before. So they know the plan. Let's say he's going after the Scorpions next, and he's cooked up some pretext. He arranges for the Grand Council chamber to be unavailable and so they meet in orbit in MP's wardroom. He calls the Scorpions out, and then shoots their Khans dead. The Cobras and Adders would agree that his act was legal (not being in the real council chamber) and was simply clever and bold, as it was with Angus Labov. In orbit, Cobra ASFs are standing by to eliminate the Scorpions' ships before they can get the warning out. The Vipers have the lifetime achievement award in the field of self-righteous hypocrisy. When they do it, it's right. So why not do it?
It's not a terrible plan, but on hearing it, the Cobra and Adder Khans share a look. This is the moment. With but a few tweaks, the fury can be redirected right back onto the Vipers, who have long since outlived their usefulness.
You can imagine a similar scenario if the intended target was the Coyotes (perhaps their Trials of Cleansing were simply a way to weaken them prior to being set upon). Or the Cobras, who had their own crimes and might have been targeted to be crippled or destroyed.
With that said, the Adders clearly were already moving to eliminate the Vipers. N'Buta's warning might not have been grounded in specific knowledge of what was coming, as opposed to general certainty that the Vipers were likely to react in a way that could be twisted against them, and that Andrews was likely to target him directly.
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I would think that after the WoR the Adders would have really even more so than before would have studied and learned from those who used Anti - Clan tactics such as the Society who went right at the weaknesses of the clan way of fighting. Do we have any sense that the Adders and or the other Clans actually learned from the WoR?
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The Adders seem to learn from everything historically (much to the chagrin of some). We have no indication if that changes or not though.
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Maybe we will learn soon ;)
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Here's one possible scenario. Imagine that Andrews was going to go after another Clan. He naturally coordinates with the Cobras and Adders, as before. So they know the plan. Let's say he's going after the Scorpions next, and he's cooked up some pretext. He arranges for the Grand Council chamber to be unavailable and so they meet in orbit in MP's wardroom. He calls the Scorpions out, and then shoots their Khans dead. The Cobras and Adders would agree that his act was legal (not being in the real council chamber) and was simply clever and bold, as it was with Angus Labov. In orbit, Cobra ASFs are standing by to eliminate the Scorpions' ships before they can get the warning out. The Vipers have the lifetime achievement award in the field of self-righteous hypocrisy. When they do it, it's right. So why not do it?
It's not a terrible plan, but on hearing it, the Cobra and Adder Khans share a look. This is the moment. With but a few tweaks, the fury can be redirected right back onto the Vipers, who have long since outlived their usefulness.
You know, that's actually better than what I envisioned in my head. Kudos to you!
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And it is already no easy feat to try and piece together what might have transpired to set everything up for the way it all toppled down. Let alone trying to imagine the setup to a scene that out-bolds the author in his own opinion of how the whole thing went down. Good job, Wellspring.
I've argued with a few people around various communities here that wondered rather vociferously why Andrews didn't immediately shoot Hannibal Banacek as soon as he started to speak up. My response was that Andrews obviously was not expecting any of what took place. Normally, Andrews does nothing without brooding and scheming and plotting for a long time beforehand. N'Buta took Andrews out of his element in that way, away from the safety of his own plots. Obviously, Andrews was not as good outside of a Circle of Equals as he was in one, when he was forced to react.
And he was out of his element in another way with being in a relatively small conference room aboard the McKenna's Pride where he was suddenly within the reach of an angry Elemental who decided that this was an appropriate time to eschew Grand Council protocol as well.
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He was not better in a circle of equals than N'buta... well we don't know cuz he shot him instead of fought him.
I'd like to see N'buta's Night Gyr versus Andrew's Black Python... that'd be a fun fight.
And good excuse to get stats on both mechs ;)
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He was not better in a circle of equals than N'buta... well we don't know cuz he shot him instead of fought him.
I'd like to see N'buta's Night Gyr versus Andrew's Black Python... that'd be a fun fight.
And good excuse to get stats on both mechs ;)
Andrew's Black Python was a vanilla one, because VIPER PRIDE. Mostly, it was just fueled by sheer hatred. Kind of like Darth Vader. Or my the first cat I ever owned.
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Andrew's Black Python was a vanilla one, because VIPER PRIDE. Mostly, it was just fueled by sheer hatred. Kind of like Darth Vader. Or every cat anyone ever owned.
Fixed that last bit for you...
Nah, I don't want a vanilla Mech for Andrews, I want dude to have a tricked out custom laser boat.
And I want N'buta's Night Gyr to be a super charged, rotary AC spinning, PPC blasting, mech smashing beast... but that's just me
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Fixed that last bit for you...
Nah, I don't want a vanilla Mech for Andrews, I want dude to have a tricked out custom laser boat.
And I want N'buta's Night Gyr to be a super charged, rotary AC spinning, PPC blasting, mech smashing beast... but that's just me
As not-a-duly-appointed-authority-of-any-kind-what-are-you-insane, I am declaring this canon until we hear otherwise.
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As not-a-duly-appointed-authority-of-any-kind-what-are-you-insane, I am declaring this canon until we hear otherwise.
Unfortunately, Ben was just here and he only stops by this thread once a year, HAPPY 2015 GHOSTBEAR! ;D
Also, I've got no where near the street cred to design a canon mech
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Unfortunately, Ben was just here and he only stops by this thread once a year, HAPPY 2015 GHOSTBEAR! ;D
Also, I've got no where near the street cred to design a canon mech
Look at it this way, he won't be back to declare it NON-canon anytime soon! ;D ;D
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It's the year of the ILCLAN now, imagine the rampant speculation of he visits us twice!
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Fixed that last bit for you...
Nah, I don't want a vanilla Mech for Andrews, I want dude to have a tricked out custom laser boat.
And I want N'buta's Night Gyr to be a super charged, rotary AC spinning, PPC blasting, mech smashing beast... but that's just me
Ah so you desire an inner sphere tainted mech for your Khan quaff?
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You know, that's actually better than what I envisioned in my head. Kudos to you!
All those crackpot theories I post, made well worth it with a few words. I think I'll bask in this for a few more hours. :)
OTOH, that means it's not what Ben actually had in mind.
The gripping hand is that if it makes any difference and there's an IP issue, then I'm explicitly giving him my permission to use this idea, uncompensated and uncredited, in future publications.
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All those crackpot theories I post, made well worth it with a few words. I think I'll bask in this for a few more hours. :)
OTOH, that means it's not what Ben actually had in mind.
The gripping hand is that if it makes any difference and there's an IP issue, then I'm explicitly giving him my permission to use this idea, uncompensated and uncredited, in future publications.
If you could sketch out the scenes you described, you know...
And you already have a solid rough outline to follow that was said to be golden. Not every day, or year, or sometimes life, does that fall onto someone.
:) Just sayin'.
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imagine the rampant speculation of he visits us twice!
Tempting fate ... :P
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Starting next month this thread will be 4 years old. Wow I started this thread 02feb2011.
This thread has to be the oldest continuous active thread on the boards. :))
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Starting next month this thread will be 4 years old. Wow I started this thread 02feb2011.
This thread has to be the oldest continuous active thread on the boards. :))
Nobody loves us
Look at it this way, if the Adders are ILCLAN... well it'll probably still be here
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Ah so you desire an inner sphere tainted mech for your Khan quaff?
Not built in the Inner Sphere, good to go per all the canon sources we have
Coveted by Adders everywhere
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Nobody loves us
Look at it this way, if the Adders are ILCLAN... well it'll probably still be here
So true.
The few, the proud, the pragmatic. :)
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Face it, the Adders are boring
They do things that make sense, make smart choices, plan well in advance and thoroughly, learn from mistakes, and seek out and promote leadership as a desirable trait in their leaders.
Compared to the crazy of most of the other factions... yeah boooooring.
Our mech preferences, mobile with good armor and lots of guns. Um, yes
Got a problem mechs can't solve, meh ortillery it with the fleet
Not a lot of flavor. They're clan SLDF.
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They were exciting for a minute there, though, you have to admit. The Adders were perhaps the sanest and most sober of all of the Home Clans and had a lot of action. Diamond Shark Watch agents must have been all over in the Adders, I'd wager. To get us that good coverage.
edit: Except for the whole Blood Spirit thing where you guys go ape-crud crazy, and take the Grand Council as an advisory body and a tool. That's excitement, too.
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They were exciting for a minute there, though, you have to admit. The Adders were perhaps the sanest and most sober of all of the Home Clans and had a lot of action. Diamond Shark Watch agents must have been all over in the Adders, I'd wager. To get us that good coverage.
edit: Except for the whole Blood Spirit thing where you guys go ape-crud crazy, and take the Grand Council as an advisory body and a tool. That's excitement, too.
Well, it's like Havelock Vetinari: the most sane, rational being capable of running everything with a cool, level head, able to handle anything calmly...except those damned mimes.
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They were exciting for a minute there, though, you have to admit. The Adders were perhaps the sanest and most sober of all of the Home Clans and had a lot of action. Diamond Shark Watch agents must have been all over in the Adders, I'd wager. To get us that good coverage.
edit: Except for the whole Blood Spirit thing where you guys go ape-crud crazy, and take the Grand Council as an advisory body and a tool. That's excitement, too.
Actually if you think about it, eliminating the Blood Spirits was a perfectly logical thing to do. It eliminates a dangerously unstable Clan who just happens to be a mortal enemy thus permanently preventing them from ever being a threat again. They weren't about to let them make a comeback like Clan Burrock.
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The Adders will have their moment in the sun. Actually it will just be the bright flash before the mushroom cloud appears...
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The Adders will have their moment in the sun. Actually it will just be the bright flash before the mushroom cloud appears...
TIAMAT orbital defense armed
4 Galaxies of UltraMechs ready to drop
Attack Csesztreg... ENGAGE!
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The Adders will have their moment in the sun. Actually it will just be the bright flash before the mushroom cloud appears...
ilKhan Banacek (nuke-tanned) smiles ...
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If you could sketch out the scenes you described, you know...
And you already have a solid rough outline to follow that was said to be golden. Not every day, or year, or sometimes life, does that fall onto someone.
:) Just sayin'.
I have more than enough non-fiction on my plate right now. ;)
I wouldn't snub a solicitation, but I suspect that CGL already has an excellent stable of contributors and freelancers, and there's a long way between "wrote a good snippet on a forum one time" and "writes excellent gaming fiction".
If Ben or any other CGL person saw an idea they liked but felt constrained by potential IP issues, they'd need only contact me. Contributing would be fun, but I have absolutely no intention of creating another tangled IP mess. Better to simply assign the rights and enjoy the game than wrangle over a pittance.
But I'm flattered at even the suggestion. :)
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While we're volunteering...
Fletch will happily scrub your floors by hand, dry clean your clothes, weed your gardens/lawns, and drive you around (though probably on the wrong side of the road) if you're interested.
Stay out of my thread Pony boy! ;)
I'd really truly like to see personal rides for WoR characters. There's no good product or financial reason to do it that I can think of, it would be neat.
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Not built in the Inner Sphere, good to go per all the canon sources we have
Coveted by Adders everywhere
Ok, guess I was wrong when I thought the RAC was a Davion invention stolen by the Diamond Sharks?
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Not built in the Inner Sphere, good to go per all the canon sources we have
Coveted by Adders everywhere
Actually it was built in the Inner Sphere. It was primarily built in Clan space until the Vipers demolished the production facility in 3076 (WoR Supp., p17).
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Stay out of my thread Pony boy! ;)
Can I delegate to the kids?
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Face it, the Adders are boring
They do things that make sense, make smart choices, plan well in advance and thoroughly, learn from mistakes, and seek out and promote leadership as a desirable trait in their leaders.
Compared to the crazy of most of the other factions... yeah boooooring.
Our mech preferences, mobile with good armor and lots of guns. Um, yes
Got a problem mechs can't solve, meh ortillery it with the fleet
Not a lot of flavor. They're clan SLDF.
I totally disagree. To me, the grownup clans are fascinating and flavorful. I feel like it's clans like the Hellions and Mandrills that are less flavorful precisely because they're so unbalanced and crazy. They jump out at you in the first supplement, but where do you go with them? Kind of a Sense and Sensibility thing.
Calm, cautious, conservative--- but still aggressive and ruthless. To me, that's far more interesting and fun to read about in practice. What is the right policy for the Home Clans now? How do you navigate the volatile political situation pre-WoR? There's more mileage exploring those kinds of nuanced, multidimensional problems.
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Wellspring, ssshhhh, you're making too much sense and people might catch on. Plus you're harshing my sarcasm!
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Ok, guess I was wrong when I thought the RAC was a Davion invention stolen by the Diamond Sharks?
RACs exist in the homeworlds as far as I know
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I totally disagree. To me, the grownup clans are fascinating and flavorful. I feel like it's clans like the Hellions and Mandrills that are less flavorful precisely because they're so unbalanced and crazy. They jump out at you in the first supplement, but where do you go with them? Kind of a Sense and Sensibility thing.
Calm, cautious, conservative--- but still aggressive and ruthless. To me, that's far more interesting and fun to read about in practice. What is the right policy for the Home Clans now? How do you navigate the volatile political situation pre-WoR? There's more mileage exploring those kinds of nuanced, multidimensional problems.
The Adders remind me of super conservative parents with a bunch of rebellious children they can't control...
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RACs exist in the homeworlds as far as I know
As far as I am aware there is absolutely no indication that they made it to the Clan Homeworlds before contact with the Inner Sphere was cut. The Diamond Sharks were credited as being the Clan that created experimental Clan RACs in 3069 by which time they had already decided to move most, if not all, the Clan to the Inner Sphere and was always intended for the Inner Sphere markets so there was no need to ship it back to the Homeworlds.
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As far as I am aware there is absolutely no indication that they made it to the Clan Homeworlds before contact with the Inner Sphere was cut. The Diamond Sharks were credited as being the Clan that created experimental Clan RACs in 3069 by which time they had already decided to move most, if not all, the Clan to the Inner Sphere and was always intended for the Inner Sphere markets so there was no need to ship it back to the Homeworlds.
OR WAS THERE?!? [/foilhat]
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As far as I am aware there is absolutely no indication that they made it to the Clan Homeworlds before contact with the Inner Sphere was cut. The Diamond Sharks were credited as being the Clan that created experimental Clan RACs in 3069 by which time they had already decided to move most, if not all, the Clan to the Inner Sphere and was always intended for the Inner Sphere markets so there was no need to ship it back to the Homeworlds.
You know I always assumed since the overlap between the clan RAC existing and the Sharks leaving was there that the homeworlds would have them. But you make a very good point.
I may ask the writers.
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Forgot about the Osteon...
Thank you Kit for the answer
The homeworlds have RAC's... see Osteon F for the evidence
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The Adders remind me of super conservative parents with a bunch of rebellious children they can't control...
Hey leave me and my kids out of this!!!
(tongue firmly in cheek ;) )
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Forgot about the Osteon...
Thank you Kit for the answer
The homeworlds have RAC's... see Osteon F for the evidence
Nice.
Strokes goatee while contemplating evilly. }:)
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Nice.
Strokes goatee while contemplating evilly. }:)
Night Gyr prime
Swap Ultra 10 for RAC5
Even worse swap PPCs for LPLs
There's an Ebon Jagur with a couple Ultra 10's you can swap out as well.
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BTW April 1 is approaching ... wonder what they do have in their mind this year ... 8)
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BTW April 1 is approaching ... wonder what they do have in their mind this year ... 8)
The Invasion of Clan Black Adder, led by Freeborn Khan Edmund.
Lawsuits? What are they?
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My old character was nicknamed the Black Adder... he actually wasn't a bad guy. He just needed a mech for his ToP and they ran out of heavies. There was this one Wolf isorla Gargoyle but they only had time to repaint it flat black. He trialed out a Star Captain, then claimed the mech for his assignment, he never let the techs paint the dang thing. Just kept it flat black. Thus the name.
Anyway, I don't want a AFD joke with the Adders, I'm ready for a real update. I'm patient though.
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My old character was nicknamed the Black Adder... he actually wasn't a bad guy. He just needed a mech for his ToP and they ran out of heavies. There was this one Wolf isorla Gargoyle but they only had time to repaint it flat black. He trialed out a Star Captain, then claimed the mech for his assignment, he never let the techs paint the dang thing. Just kept it flat black. Thus the name.
Anyway, I don't want a AFD joke with the Adders, I'm ready for a real update. I'm patient though.
April Fool's Day: Turning Point "Surprise! The Vipers and the Spirits Weren't Actually Dead And Now They Are Teaming Up and Somehow Curbstomping the Adders, Even Though That Doesn't Actually Make Any Damned Sense Whatsoever!" Or as it is affectionately nicknamed, "Turning Point: Make Cold1 Suffer." ;)
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Well if they were to actually canonize last year's outline the title would be "IlClan: Dear Cold1, we expect you float us financially because every other fan just quit"
So why not swing to the other extreme.
Additionally, I truly appreciate your originality in your choice of faction to curb stomp the Adders. WoB has been beat into the ground.
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Well if they were to actually canonize last year's outline the title would be "IlClan: Dear Cold1, we expect you float us financially because every other fan just quit"
So why not swing to the other extreme.
Additionally, I truly appreciate your originality in your choice of faction to curb stomp the Adders. WoB has been beat into the ground.
There is very little that TPTB could do to make me quit the setting entirely. It would basically require the destruction of every House BUT the Suns, all the Periphery being wiped out, the weird Deep Periphery things being wiped out, and all the Clans except for, like, the Coyotes being wiped out. I may not find the Adder's interesting, but when Clan Invasion 2.0 comes along, there needs to be ONE competent Clan among them, and I look forward to seeing what nasty tricks they pull off. I'm pretty much imagining the whole conflict boiling down to the Sea Foxes versus the Adders (unless they're in collusion, which I'd ALSO be fine with). I am expecting MUCH Magnificent Bastardry. This is going to be your time to do amazing things, and I am looking forward to it.
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Shark/Fox Adder secret alliance is my dream come true.
The Sharks "people shot at us and we ran away real quick" explanation of leaving the Homeworld's seems odd. They're tricky.
I also really question the Adders sending 2 clusters to the Horses. Especially the 5th. You just sent by far the best and most prestigious fighting unit in the touman on a one way trip. Did you really send all those Truscott's and N'buta bloodnamed away like that??? Suspect
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I also really question the Adders sending 2 clusters to the Horses. Especially the 5th. You just sent by far the best and most prestigious fighting unit in the touman on a one way trip. Did you really send all those Truscott's and N'buta bloodnamed away like that??? Suspect
They were sent because they could be trusted to do what they had to do to complete their mission. Besides there were likely only a handful of Bloodnamed warriors in the clusters. Combat losses and the ongoing conflicts likely limiting their ability to hold Bloodrights would have reduced the number of Bloodnamed warriors in the Clan.
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My guess is some of the ristars probably got yanked before the rest of the task force went home with the khan. Adders likely swapped in a bunch of watch warriors (we know from WoR some were with the task force). N'buta was probably fairly keen on getting his watch into the Inner Sphere. If a watch warrior is sent on a mission to be absorbed does he just pretend to join the new clan? No reasons the Horses would question the 5th's warriors. They're getting the best of the best.
Hell for all we know one or two of them could have stayed on Thule and blended into Bear society as well.
It's pure speculation and means nothing until we see the homeworlds again. But the door is open for an intelligence network to exist in the Inner Sphere and report back to the clans.
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Admit it, the Adders wanted to be as cool as the Horses. At least the Horses planned and executed and invasion :P
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Admit it, the Adders wanted to be as cool as the Horses. At least the Horses planned and executed and invasion :P
And used Adder resources and troops to execute their fleeing the homeworlds...
Watch your words Fletcher, the time may come when the Horses learn the difference in an Exodus and an Invasion. ;D. Something tells me snagging a foothold ain't how the snakes will roll.
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The Adders have to be running intelligence operations in the IS. It is absolutely inconceivable to me that they aren't. Slipping some illegals into the mix might be one way to do it.
As for April 1, why not Field Manual: Niops? It could be a front cover, credits page, acknowledgements, table of contents, game rules section, index, and back cover. And half a page of actual content, for a total size of eight pages.
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Whatever they do for AFD, leave the homeworld clans alone this time
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Whatever they do for AFD, leave the homeworld clans alone this time
"This time?" There's not been an AFD joke - or Halloween special - that ever focused on the Homeworlds Clans beyond a few side mentions.
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Ok, technically there has not been an official CGL released one. There is a particular assistant line developer who has AFD'd the clans on his personal blog a couple times. And while not an official CGL release it does set these boards a flame with speculation.
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I eagerly await the invasion of Clan Fluffy Bunny!
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Ok, technically there has not been an official CGL released one. There is a particular assistant line developer who has AFD'd the clans on his personal blog a couple times. And while not an official CGL release it does set these boards a flame with speculation.
...so? While I'll admit that some of the speculation on these boards can drive me batty, it's also a damn good way to keep BattleTech in peoples' minds.
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So spoof what happened to the WoB this time etc.
I'm in a vocal minority. The bulk of what I care about in the BTU is in the clan homeworlds. I want to see what CGL is going to do out there. It gets old being the running joke/meme of the universe. From my standpoint if CGL ran with Ben's AFD outline last year and canonized it... I'd be happy. I know almost no other fan would be.
It's not just an Adder thing. I've almost always thrown in my lot with the homeworld clans. Now there are only a handful left. I'm sticking with it. It seems the possibility is there for the homeworlds to become just another far flung periphery backwater. I'm ok with that, just give us something real.
There are enough hidden bogeymen in the universe. Let one of those be the joke.
As for the actual AFD pdf's I think those are pure gold. It's a big testament to CGL's love of the universe and fans that they create those for free.
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Okay, time to wake up hibernating snakes ;)
Question: I'm building a Star Adder nova, more or less any time 3060-3085. The 'Mech component consists of:
- Blood Asp, Kingfisher, Gargoyle, Thor, Nova Cat
The question I have is, what would you choose for the accompanying battle armour star? I have enough minis for 4 points of Coronas; I have plenty of Elementals, Gnomes, and Salamanders, plus some more exotic suits like Sylphs, Undines, Rabids and Thunderbirds.
I'm currently leaning towards two points Coronas, two points Elementals, and a Gnome for fun. What would you recommend?
Cheers,
W.
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Okay, time to wake up hibernating snakes ;)
Question: I'm building a Star Adder nova, more or less any time 3060-3085. The 'Mech component consists of:
- Blood Asp, Kingfisher, Gargoyle, Thor, Nova Cat
The question I have is, what would you choose for the accompanying battle armour star? I have enough minis for 4 points of Coronas; I have plenty of Elementals, Gnomes, and Salamanders, plus some more exotic suits like Sylphs, Undines, Rabids and Thunderbirds.
I'm currently leaning towards two points Coronas, two points Elementals, and a Gnome for fun. What would you recommend?
Cheers,
W.
Sounds like a good group you've got there WT. I'd have to double check some RAT's once my son goes to bed as I can't remember if they used Gnomes, but it can always be considered Isorla. The corona & elemental is a no brainer though!
Edit - The Slyph would be an excellent choice being that they do use Cobra designs rather often!
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Hey cool! I didn't expect that (haven't RAT-dived). The DA Sylph is very nice, and I have some handy.
Side question - is it worth dropping one Elemental point for a Corona SRM point? Or dropping a MPL Corona for the SRM point? Not having played/fought Adder forces, any advice welcomed.
(These guys are more likely to fight under AS rules than TW, but I'm more interested in filling my head with TW performance ;) )
W.
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Either is up to you. All depends on what you want the Corona points to do.
I personally like lasers, but srms are handy as well.
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We don't have a lot of detail on Adder use of elementals other than they got their program started late and the RAT's. We know for mechs (you picked 5 good ones though I'd sub a Night Gyr for the Summoner if it were me) they like heavies and assaults with good mobility and lots of weapons systems and lights mediums they prefer less speed and more guns. They like to use good planning and strategy wit big time firepower to quickly win battles. It's like the Jaguars with well though out strategy...yikes.
That said I'd go 3 Corona points with the assaults (Fisher, Asp, and Cat) and 2 elementals with the heavies (Gargoyle and Summoner). ***yes I just called a 70 tonner and assault and an 80 tonner a heavy in the same sentence but that's how you use them in clan games***
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1216/gnome-battle-armor-standard
Gnomes are HW Clan General, the Star Adders can use them. The RATs can give you a general rough view but they aren't exhaustive or absolute.
I like the pulse laser Coronas better than the SRM ones, because the Point delivers up to 5x 7pt hits at 12 hexes and that makes up for its lack of mobility. The SRM Corona does work quite well as a bodyguard for the pulse Coronas, Gnomes are good for that too.
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- Blood Asp, Kingfisher, Gargoyle, Thor, Nova Cat
The question I have is, what would you choose for the accompanying battle armour star? I have enough minis for 4 points of Coronas; I have plenty of Elementals, Gnomes, and Salamanders, plus some more exotic suits like Sylphs, Undines, Rabids and Thunderbirds.
I'm currently leaning towards two points Coronas, two points Elementals, and a Gnome for fun. What would you recommend?
I'd put BA capable of leg/swarm attacks, like Elementals and Salmanders, on the Gargoyle and Thor. With their 5/8 speed, the omnis can close more quickly than their starmates so the BA can deliver their anti-mech attacks.
I'd put "fire-support" BA like the Coronas and Gnomes on the Blood Asp, Kingfisher, and Nova Cat. With 4/6 speed, these omnis will be slower to engage in close combat so the reach of the pulse medium lasers and missiles of those BA will be important.
Although anything can be justified, there are no Undines, Rabids, or T-birds on the Adder 3072 RAT in WoR Supp, so I'd probably stay away from those just for authenticity. And outside of ridiculous terrain or tactical learning exercises, I'd probably always take an Elemental or Salamander over a Sylph.
Unconstrained by BV, for an all-around, balanced nova, I'd probably run it like this:
Blood Asp E
Corona Point
Kingfisher C
Corona Point
Nova Cat B
Gnome LRM Point
Man o' War C
Elemental (AP Gauss) Point
Summoner C
Elemental (AP Gauss) Point
The Asp and Fisher give you four ER peepers and 12 ATM tubes for extreme long-ranged hole-punching/firepower on two of the slower, 4/6 frames. The Coronas keep fast-movers seeking to take down the Asp or Fisher from behind honest and can add their firepower once the Asp and Fisher close to medium range.
The Cat and Gnomes are long-range fire support on the third, slower, 4/6 frame, throwing a combined 110 LRMs per turn. The Gnome LRM comes online in 3085.
The Man o' War and Summoner each carry Ultra-20s on their faster 5/8 frames for close-assault hole-punching. The Elementals can add critting via their SRMs and AP Gauss before engaging in anti-mech attacks.
Hope this helps.
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I don't think the Adders would have access to the Gnome (LRM): it debuted as a Horse exclusive in 3073, after they'd already left the Homeworlds and been Abjured. At least as far as the MUL is concerned, it appears to have remained exclusive to them.
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Well, it's already Blood Asp B (aka the "Blood Scylla"), Summoner Prime, and actually an Executioner (aka Gladiator, hence my brain fart) E config. The configs are based on ease of modification - I'm not a WYSIWIG player, but I enjoy making configs.
The Kingfisher and Nova Cat aren't decided configs yet - Kingfisher might be a C, D or H, while the Nova Cat I'm thinking of A or D.
At this point, BA wise, will be going for two MPL Coronas, one SRM Corona, and two Elementals. The Sylph really appeals visually, but ...
(Heck, if I do another lighter 'Mech Adder star, it might go well there!)
W.
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More Adders! Welcome to the dark side!
Executioner E is a good choice
The Nova Cat A is far and away one of my favorites. The prime is good too
I never noticed the parallel between the Blood Asp B and Scylla before...which is sad since I have a very weird love of the Scylla. I like the Blood Asp B. It's a little under gunned for a 4/6 90 tonner to me but still very effective.
I like the BA mix; they can work well supporting each other and with the mechs. That'll be a slick little nova! Your opponent may be able to field a small warship for the BV, but that's the breaks with clan assaults.
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This is where I admit it's an OpFor for my Falcons ... still, I'm really enjoying the modding & painting.
And re the B - helps I'm using Scylla arms. Seemed the best way to show it ;)n Pics in a few weeks.
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This is where I admit it's an OpFor for my Falcons ... still, I'm really enjoying the modding & painting.
And re the B - helps I'm using Scylla arms. Seemed the best way to show it ;)n Pics in a few weeks.
Yes pics!!!! O0
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Hey long time Adder, new to the forums. Glad to see a group of my Trothkin out there.
I thought this was a good place to come getting people's opinions on some speculation I've been thinking about. So I was over at the CGL page and was looking at the coming releases. Down at the bottom there is a listing for ilClan coming as a campaign.
It states: "The ilClan is a campaign-driven overview of the universe-spanning conflict that will see the fall of The Republic of the Sphere and the final conclusion of the Dark Age era. The founding of the ilClan heralds the start of a new age for the BattleTech universe—one that will forever transform the Inner Sphere and Clans alike!"
Do you guys think this is one of the existing IS Clans or a renewed invasion? Right now I see the top runners for the ilClan to be ether Wolf, Falcon or Adder. The Horses, Foxes and Ravens I think have almost no chance. I would think the Ghost Bears aren't likely ether as sense the end of the Jihad they haven't been super active in taking new territory as far as I can tell. They seem more to react to events around them.
The Wolves and the Falcons are in prime locations with the Falcons making a play for it during the Dark Ages before the Fortress. But I also seeing a new Invasion by the homeworld Clans with the Adders at the lead. And unlike Revival or the Falcon's Decent, the Adder Khans know(or at least did during Revival and the Reaving) that it would take all forces available and cooperation.
What are your thoughts?
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Shark Watch reporting in.
I think it will be Clan Wolf. I am 99.999999999% sure this will be the case. While Jade Falcon is by no means weak, Clan Wolf is just enormously powerful and my theory is they have played the long game better than any Ghost Bear ever could.
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As long as Stone dies messily I'll be happy no matter who gets to be IlClan.
I also think the Wolves look good for it on paper, but the end of the DA is a plotline I'm expecting to have a twist.
I'd honestly be surprised if the Star Adders made an appearance. There hasn't been a lot of foreshadowing for an assault by the Homeworld Clans, and it would be a strange end to all the major DA plotlines - the Malvina Falcons, the Wolf Empire, Fortress Republic - if those are all tied up with a "...and then they were all killed by a hypertech Clan Star Adder blasting in from corewards yonder".
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The Brett Andrews banner holder welcomes one and all to the great Clan Star Adder page.
Because irony should always be a part of fan-self-character-imposed penance.
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I do not believe that the Homeclans will make an appearance in DA. Rather I hope that they will create a powerful Deep Periphery state (or a number of states) that will give the Inner Sphere headaches in the era to come.
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Yeah we've picked apart most of the angles on this thread. It seems unlikely.
Though TRO:3150 does have the Kell Hounds making a run towards the clan Homeworlds. It would be a little cheesy to have another Kell be the first contact with a clan invasion. Though they may set off a chain of events if they tell the Adders who Alaric really is. I mean what more to prove the homies right the Alaric (who is technically not of clan genes) leading the Wolf to Terra and declaring himself Ilkhan. That would probably set them off enough to want to fight. Or give the Aggressor camp ammunition for their cause.
I don't see Clan Wolf on Terra reshaping the Inner Sphere like the preview article suggests either. The current IS clans have all been there too long to smash apart the houses. They would be more inclined to diplomacy, except Malvina. My guess is the Wolf does get to Terra and maybe claims Ilclan status, somewhere about 1/3-1/2 way into the Ilclan book. Then it gets all BenRomey and stuff goes crazy.
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An IS clan as IlClan will be the highest level of taint possible - Ludicrous
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An IS clan as IlClan will be the highest level of taint possible - Ludicrous
Considering two of the HW Clans that survived the WoR were the most tainted, a tainted ilClan isn't that much of a stretch :)
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I still think it will be the Wolf in Exile [wildandcrazy]
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Considering two of the HW Clans that survived the WoR were the most tainted, a tainted ilClan isn't that much of a stretch :)
Which two? The Coyotes and Spirits (who technically survived the Wars of Reaving)
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An IS clan as IlClan will be the highest level of taint possible - Ludicrous
I believe that honor is reserved for Clan Wolverine (from the viewpoint of the remaining Clans - both HW and IS - of course).
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Which two? The Coyotes and Spirits (who technically survived the Wars of Reaving)
Coyotes with their Society connections and the Star Adders with their Burrock connections.
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Considering two of the HW Clans that survived the WoR were the most tainted, a tainted ilClan isn't that much of a stretch :)
The taint was utterly annihilated long before the end of the WoR.
Though TRO:3150 does have the Kell Hounds making a run towards the clan Homeworlds. It would be a little cheesy to have another Kell be the first contact with a clan invasion. Though they may set off a chain of events if they tell the Adders who Alaric really is. I mean what more to prove the homies right the Alaric (who is technically not of clan genes) leading the Wolf to Terra and declaring himself Ilkhan. That would probably set them off enough to want to fight. Or give the Aggressor camp ammunition for their cause.
Well this would just mean the utter destruction of the Kell Hounds.
Or maybe in some years (or decades) the return of the Kell Star Hounds ;)
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To be honest, 3150 doesn't have the Kell Hounds running towards the Homeworlds. It simply has them running to Periphery.
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To be honest, 3150 doesn't have the Kell Hounds running towards the Homeworlds. It simply has them running to Periphery.
I thought it mentioned that general direction... It's so obvious it's probably a red herring
Also, calling the Adders tainted is a stretch. They killed or trialed out all the Burrocks. They sent two elite clusters to hunt the Burrocks and when those cluster wandered to the Inner Sphere they did not come back. The Adders were pretty thorough in burning out any trace of anyone associated with them that could be tainted. I'd say they not only kept themselves clean but did it in a way that they can make a case in the grand council pretty easily.
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I don't think it'll be either Wolf or Falcon, because picking one pretty much means killing the other off.. since one will only accept the other as ilClan over its dead Touman. And after 25 years of spotlight, they've gone from peripheral expansion teams to core members of the BattleTech Universe so I don't see either of their demises in the cards.
I don't think the Homeworld Clans are likely either, although their return could well be the spark that ignites a new round of conflict across the Inner Sphere after the ilClan era is established.
My prediction for ilClan (and thus the primary opposition for a presumptive Adder-led invasion of the IS in the ilClan Era) is actually the Republic. Whether it's a restructured/rebranded RotS or perhaps the Fidelis serving as the Republic's "pet ilClan", I'm not sure.
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My prediction for ilClan (and thus the primary opposition for a presumptive Adder-led invasion of the IS in the ilClan Era) is actually the Republic. Whether it's a restructured/rebranded RotS or perhaps the Fidelis serving as the Republic's "pet ilClan", I'm not sure.
This would be truly unexpected.
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This would be truly unexpected.
And truly stupid. Sorry I'm pretty passive about most things here. But let's have a big war, smash factions, then rename the RotS and maintain status quo. That's a cop out.
Now if you want the Fidelis to freak out and take over and go all Smoke Jaguar on everyone, well yeah sure that's cool. But a renaming of the republic in that vain is not.
I still think the clan protectorate and its mish mash of clan originated groups is the sleeper pick.
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My bet is on Clan Wolf.
They are very well-placed and Alaric`s character development has been as one getting better and better and be the new nonplusultra of a Clan-IS-amalgamation.
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For the Homeclans and their interstellar sphere of influence, the situation post-WOR has given them superiority there. That absolutely all communication from this region has stopped shows they dominate. They even have reached a certain level of cooperation among themselves as it was at the beginning of the Clans before Operation Klondike.
I doubt there will be peace, there will be ongoing conflict. Rather being of low level as to raids and trials, but where war is there is development. I think the Homeclans need 20-30 years to have again a capable and productive scientist caste. So in 3150 there may be some interesting new techological innovations in their arsenal.
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The Wolf Empire has positioning. I agree with that. And they are well-consolidated in their area, all and all. Not spread too thin, ready to drop down to Terra along the Lyran/FWL border.
Jade Falcons have the will to do it, though. And they have an insane leader who is likely to think the IlClan title (and therefore, IlKhan) is too shiny-shiny to not fixate upon. And if anyone doesn't like it, she'll make them her new Cynthy-pet.
Wish I was kidding and being hyperbolic about that last part, but we all know something terribly unhealthy is going on there.
Anyway, I think either the Jade Falcons or the Wolves taking Terra and fighting the other to a bloody, human-rending mess is exactly what would call down the Star Adders and the Home Cans and make them become part of the whole story. Those were two of the preeminent Clans prior to the Clan Invasion, and to have one of them finally Triumph over 100 years later would probably be enough to do that, and the Home Clans will reappear.
Or should. Maybe.
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IMHO there will be a great final battle between the ilClan/ilKhan (Wolf) and the Chingis Khan/Golden Ordun.
The ilClan is the true idea of what the Clans shall stand for, mentioned in the wrtitings of Nicholas Kerensky.
The Golden Ordun is the anti-thesis.
Given how the Chingis Khan Malvina Hazen has been doing since her *apotheosis* (*let the whole universe burn*) Alaric Wolf and his more liberal approach of Divide-and-Rule will get more support from other IS powers (defeated Republicans, IS Clanners).
He may declare a crusade/Trial of Reaving against Malvina (IMHO not against the Falcons, so destroying her power base among the Falcons).
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Malvina will die under the front foot of a QuadVee; driven by a Stone Lion. O0
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Yeah what Gaiten said makes some sense.
I actually wouldn't mind a story with plot twists and no homeworld clans where the Wolf wins and actually become the true Ilclan and then organize the other clans around them.
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I actually wouldn't mind a story with plot twists and no homeworld clans where the Wolf wins and actually become the true Ilclan and then organize the other clans around them.
Without the Homeclans ... and then the real problems will begin.
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I will say it again. If Alaric takes Terra and declares Ilclan and the Homeworld clans don't flip out and roll up... they're dead or degraded to a point of irrelevance.
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I will say it again. If Alaric takes Terra and declares Ilclan and the Homeworld clans don't flip out and roll up... they're dead or degraded to a point of irrelevance.
Would the Homeworld Clans even know?
Also I think they might not be too affronted. Certainly the Aggressor types would use it as an excuse to demand a new invasion, but other Warriors could just as easily shrug it off as an Abjured and Tainted Clan putting on silly airs.
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Malvina will die under the front foot of a QuadVee; driven by a Stone Lion. O0
Your ideas intrigue me. Do you perhaps have a periodical I could subscribe to, a newsletter perhaps?
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Would the Homeworld Clans even know?
Also I think they might not be too affronted. Certainly the Aggressor types would use it as an excuse to demand a new invasion, but other Warriors could just as easily shrug it off as an Abjured and Tainted Clan putting on silly airs.
Well, if that's still the political situation. Honestly, I doubt it, given that the Homeworld Clans were planning on invading decades ago...
Your ideas intrigue me. Do you perhaps have a periodical I could subscribe to, a newsletter perhaps?
I have one, but it's more of a frenzied screed.
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It might be that the Homeclans are not interested in the IS anymore. Maybe they decided to build up their own Star League without any tainted IS influence?
(I still dream of something of an Outer Sphere, far smaller than the IS, but nevertheless a counterpart the IS has to reckon with difficulties)
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I like the idea of the Bastions reigning supreme and building up a whole new empire of sorts. If you swallow, annex, conquer, or merge with the Hansa and Imperio you suddenly have an conglomerate or whatever best describes it that is large enough to really create problems for an IS faction.
Is it possible that next we see the homies it will not be them invading but rather an ambitious IS clan Ilkhan trying to take back the Homeworlds and running into something more than he or she bargained for? Nothing would set off the homies more than one of the IS clans trying to invade.
I like the idea of Clan Cloud Adder storming through the sphere and burning Terra to the ground more, but I think it's highly unlikely.
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I like the idea of Clan Cloud Adder storming through the sphere and burning Terra to the ground more, but I think it's highly unlikely.
If the home clans ever return to the IS, that's exactly what I see their goal being. Burn Terra to save Terra from the barbarians squatting upon it.
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A simple second clan invasion of the IS would be boring, imho. Not to mention that a power that is capable of smashing through the Falcons, Bears, Dracs and Wolves - i.e. some of the most powerful IS militaries - would probably inspire yet another IS alliance against it.
I would like the opposite better: Bastion clans invaded by a brutal IS force. The invasion fails horribly, and justifies a counterstrike which does not unite the IS because only the invaders (and some nearby) are attacked.
However, overall I prefer a disconnect for a while. Let them have some sporadic contacts at max. The clan worlds should not be worth invading (not with that level of resistance to be expected), and the IS should be too strong to invade.
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Your ideas intrigue me. Do you perhaps have a periodical I could subscribe to...
Just my slightly unhinged ramblings on this forum. Usually designed to stir Cold1, with the occasional poke of the Ghostbear when off my medication.
... a newsletter perhaps?
Interesting... ^-^
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Just my slightly unhinged ramblings on this forum. Usually designed to stir Cold1, with the occasional poke of the Ghostbear when off my medication.
Interesting... ^-^
I'm in. For the newsletter, not the poking. Which you will do anyway.
Also I see by your new avatar that you finally switched allegiance to a homeworld clan. And you now have a hilarious avatar!
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Also I see by your new avatar that you finally switched allegiance to a homeworld clan. And you now have a hilarious avatar!
It borrowed my eye drops, and I'm afraid to ask for them back.
The Home Clans have that appeal as the boogieman we all want to see shake up the Spheroid ant farm... At some random time, when we least expect it, and not this year probably most definitely maybe never going to happen but could. We don't know.
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It borrowed my eye drops, and I'm afraid to ask for them back.
The Home Clans have that appeal as the boogieman we all want to see shake up the Spheroid ant farm... At some random time, when we least expect it, and not this year probably most definitely maybe never going to happen but could. We don't know.
I want to see the Cobras go on a Religious Crusade, dammit. With LOTS of flying things!
Clan Cloud Cobra: "GUESS WHAT! WE BROUGHT BACK THE LAM!"
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I want to see the Cobras go on a Religious Crusade, dammit. With LOTS of flying things!
Clan Cloud Cobra: "GUESS WHAT! WE BROUGHT BACK THE LAM!"
Far superior to flying monkeys, I can tell you from experience.
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Bah, improved WiGE Omni Protomechs are the future!
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Bah, improved WiGE Omni Protomechs are the future!
This is wandering from the topic of Adders, but I've mentioned before that, even though I'm not a huge fan of Protos as a concept, the Cobras are one of the few Clans I'm okay with having them. The combination of what had been a strong Scientist Caste, their weak ground forces, and their abundance of aero phenotypes, it makes sense to me that they would go for Protos. And FLYING protos would be even more hilarious for them.
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WiGe are rather glider than true flying units.
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WiGe are rather glider than true flying units.
I'm a biochemist/cook, not an aeronautical engineer. O0
But yeah, airborne (whether gliding or flying) Protos, something I'm totally okay with for the Cobras.
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Star Cobra huh.....
Cobraaa!!!!!
Sorry could not resist.
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Star Cobra huh.....
Cobraaa!!!!!
Sorry could not resist.
You missed the bus dude
It's Clan Cloud Adder
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You missed the bus dude
It's Clan Cloud Adder
Star Lion is the future ;)
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Special designed underwater or space Protomechs would be appreciated too.
If the IS decides to attack the Homeclans the Homeclans might have a big problem.
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It all depends on who tries it and how. My guess is the devs (or rather the dev who called dibs on them) has something planned for the Homeworlds eventually. Where it ends up as a product release is certainly any ones guess at this point.
Attacking the Homeworlds would not be easy even for a much larger force. The homies hate everything spheroid and are willing to throw everything they have at outsiders. You better bring 4-5 times the forces they have and be prepared to go home with a lot less.
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IMHO they can bring 10-20 times the forces the Homeclans can field and they can return if defeated. If the Homeclans are defeated this would be a genocide and result in their utter destruction.
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Your long lost comrade is reporting back. Did I miss much? Except the big split of HW and IS? :)
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We have been doing here a Happy Guessing Game ;)
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Ja, I saw. As long as you are happy, there is nothing wrong with that. :)
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Star Lion is the future ;)
...Just like Fletch's avatar. The dark glasses, the smoke/errr "fog" - we thought it was just stoned! Of course that's a Star Lion if I ever saw one.
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Agreed, nobody does see more stars than a stoned Star Lion ;)
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Welcome back Marlin.
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What do you think will we Adders get in the upcoming mini-TRO Golden Century?
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What do you think will we Adders get in the upcoming mini-TRO Golden Century?
Probably will not be much, we are not the popular kiddie clans with 10k plus fans.
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Probably will not be much, we are not the popular kiddie clans with 10k plus fans.
While the Adders are not one of the Clans I go for, I can certainly understand them having fans, and I feel they deserve things, being the "prepared, think this through" Clan.
I mean, I'm hoping the Vipers get something, but the Adders deserve a prize JUST as much as the Vipers, if not moreso.
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It would be cool if the Adders get more Mongoose Absorption coverage from their point of view: As observers who felt slighted enough by the 'geese to ignore the Grand Council and the trial, and take back their former possessions while the Jaguar was thrashing the little mammal.
As well as some Viper stuff.
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What do you think will we Adders get in the upcoming mini-TRO Golden Century?
MS Project 2945
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What do you think will we Adders get in the upcoming mini-TRO Golden Century?
If they get anything then an Assault mech or a nice fat Heavy would be in keeping, but you never know - the Adder was a Star Adder design after all so it could be something from any weight class.
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In FM: Crusader Clans is written that the Adders built their own Omnimechs from captured Mongoose Omnimechs.
Could mean that they constructed their own design(s), not only producing the captured.
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In FM: Crusader Clans is written that the Adders built their own Omnimechs from captured Mongoose Omnimechs.
Could mean that they constructed their own design(s), not only producing the captured.
That one is kind of up in the air I think. To take another early omnimech, it seems likely the Adders gained rights to build the Lupus since they still had enough cached to refit them as Hellfires centuries later. So producing Mongoose designs themselves would be in keeping with that.
Or not. Could go either way. Really my main hope for all the new Golden Century units is that we get the old "a handful survived into the 31st century in garisson and solahma units" clause for these old mechs so that they can be used in later eras too. I prefer minor semi-retcons like this to having stuff completely vanish.
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It would also be nice to get a couple Burrock mechs or omnimechs from before their absorption. We have the Burrock mech, but it's really a Star Adder design created post-absorption to appease former Burrock warriors.
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I hope we get the Storm Giant and I hope it's and Adder mech.
<looks around>
Man I haven't been here for a little while, did they redecorate the joint?
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And since I missed the Cobra/proto/flying things convo
I've been saying for a couple years. Proto-LAMs. I don't like LAMs at all but a proto with aero mode is right up the Cobra's alley.
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Glider ProtoMechs already use a modified version of the LAM/WiGE rules.
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Glider ProtoMechs already use a modified version of the LAM/WiGE rules.
The next Cobra Proto will be vengeance, and will be the night.
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Better Omni-Protomechs. IMHO this would be the next logical step in their development.
Furthermore some new armor types and some new weapons (as to a Light PPC).
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Better Omni-Protomechs. IMHO this would be the next logical step in their development.
Furthermore some new armor types and some new weapons (as to a Light PPC).
5 protomechs that form into a QuadVee :D
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5 protomechs that form into a QuadVee :D
PROTOTRON!!!!
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Hey thorth kin, might want to head over to the FanFic sub forum. Cannonshop is back posting after some years and looks like the Star Adders are going to be part of the ride. Good time to read up on one of the best battletech FanFic writers getting back into the swing of things.
Adapting to Darkness is the thread your looking for.
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Figured I'd post here too...I just made Cold1's day. Hopefully the Adder approves.
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=51367.0
(https://ariesgamesandminis.com/images/Aries_OmniMech/Aries%20OmniMech%20(875%20x%20920).png)
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The IlKhan's new ride O0
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The IlKhan's new ride O0
Hahaha...awesome! 8)
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Wow! :o
Very well done! O0
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Wow! :o
Very well done! O0
Thank you! Just so I'm clear though (since it's mentioned in the other thread but not here), I did not draw this, it was fellow member SteelViperSolahma. He worked with my ideas, and me canging my mind early in to it, to bring it to life. Great guy, would definitely like to work with him again!
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He is very talented, my compliments to him :)
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Yep, he certainly is! I even talked to Catalyst about him, and showed them what he did (long before the reveal here) and they may reach out to him, so if they do...we may get to see more of his work but in an official capacity.
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That is very nice work! Makes me like the Adders more. They needed more Elementals; now they have three of them. ;D
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Yeah, the Elementals were a surprise, he put those in himself. I like them though.
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Definitely a good touch.
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That's the first time I've seen colorized Adder toads. They look so much cooler than all those grey Wolf and green Falcon ones.
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That's the first time I've seen colorized Adder toads. They look so much cooler than all those grey Wolf and green Falcon ones.
Well duh.
(Full disclosure, I'm not a fan of most of the Falcon and Wolf paint jobs.)
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That's the first time I've seen colorized Adder toads. They look so much cooler than all those grey Wolf and green Falcon ones.
Well duh.
(Full disclosure, I'm not a fan of most of the Falcon and Wolf paint jobs.)
Hence the joy of obliterating those sepia coloured flea bags and turkeys. O0
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This is the best thread on this board. Mostly because it's populated by my favorite posters...
Jklantern and Fletch... Cloud Adders at heart (how many forum members have the 3 of us on ignore for not taking a fictional universe too seriously?)
Rebs the common sense third party Adder supporter (and the primary reason behind my FoxDragoons concept).
Dragon the all around good dude for the universe (who has some pro Adder tendencies).
And of course, Gaiten the spokesman for the entire continent of Europe's pro-Adder faction (what is it about Germans loving a faction built on order and discipline?)
Oh yeah and it's about the long lost Clan Star Adder
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I do hope we see the Adders and other home clans back soon.
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This is the best thread on this board. Mostly because it's populated by my favorite posters...
<snip>
Dragon the all around good dude for the universe (who has some pro Adder tendencies).
O0 I've always liked the Adders, but had the Wolves shoved down my throat since the late 80's (I don't mind so much, just wish there was more fleshing out of the rest at the time). Don't get me wrong, I still like the Wolves (Wolf Empire...still not keen on the Exiles), but back when the split happened (Wolf and Wolf-in-Exile)...I felt lost. Didn't like either "fully". Started poking around as more & more source material came out, and the Adders won me over. I still go back to anything Clan and skip almost all Clan info other than the Adders, and have read WoR who knows how many times! Probably my most favorite book.
Best moment in any book so far...is when Cassius N'Buta made his speech to the Grand Council about what Clan filled what roll in OTP: Revival Trials.
Now, I do want to see the Wolf Empire take Terra and become the IlClan, but only because Alaric being who he is becoming IlKhan...should be enough to provoke the Adders into bringing what is now (hopefully) a combined massive Homeworld Clan force down to bear on the Inner Sphere.
Now...I itch for the day when more material comes out referencing them. IlClan or not, just anything Homeworld would be nice, even Historicals.
EDIT: So as to not single out one Clan unfairly...I should have said "I, like everyone else during the FASA reign, had the Wolves, Falcons, Bears, and Jaguars shoved down our throats since the late 80's...I just happened to pick the Wolves as the Clan to follow."
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Haha, all good. I picked the Jags. You made the better choice.
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Jags were good, but they crossed the line too many times which made themselves a target, which is why I find it surprising that Malvena hasn't been taken care of as she seems worse.
But hey...at least you have the Fidelis! LOL
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Nah hind sight is 20/20. And I'm not 12 anymore. The Jags were a flat non-dynamic bad guy in the story. They were built to die and nothing else.
The Adders made more sense to me in the FASA days. In the CGL era... they are awesomely dynamic!
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Agreed! Adders, as the story has expanded, have become a very dynamic group. Looking forward to any Homeworld info we will be given graciously by TPTB.
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And of course, Gaiten the spokesman for the entire continent of Europe's pro-Adder faction (what is it about Germans loving a faction built on order and discipline?)
;D
Love this! O0
IIRC for TPTB the Homeclans are somewhat of a wildcard.
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Agreed! Adders, as the story has expanded, have become a very dynamic group.
Absolutely agreed. They really went from "Clan Davion" (i.e., the biggest and best and winningest) to an amazing, flavorful group all their own.
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Absolutely agreed. They really went from "Clan Davion" (i.e., the biggest and best and winningest) to an amazing, flavorful group all their own.
Guess we SA goons better class it up a bit now ;)
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Guess we SA goons better class it up a bit now ;)
But not too classy as to make a target of ourselves.
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But not too classy as to make a target of ourselves.
I'm surprised no one else caught the SA goons comment in the New Release thread. I'm in love with the concept. Plan to over do it and beat the poor dead horse for months ;D
Bosch has started a movement! A Bosch Movement, a BM if you will!!!
Now to recruit a few more members...
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Excuse me?
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Excuse me?
You made a reference to SA goons here to be funny and for the community. I assumed you meant Star Adder goons since fans of said faction on this forum tend to be exactly what you described.
If I mistook you, my apologies. You have inadvertently given me a reason to pay more attention here.
Movement comments totally in jest.
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I meant BattleTech fans who frequent Something Awful's forums, whose denizens have been calling themselves "goons" for quite some time now. They are a very different community than this one.
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Wow missed that boat... big time. That's what I get for trying to catch up on 10 pages of thread.
Here I thought you were poking fun at us.
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Nah, not this time. O0
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You know Star Adders are (soemtimes) full of illusions of grandeur and only can think of theirselves when reading SA ;)
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Here I thought you were poking fun at us.
That would be my role :D
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That would be my role :D
Let's be honest. If someone decided to designate a certain group of posters here as goons...who are here to goof off, beat jokes to death, and just enjoy the community, you are in.
And yes it is your job to poke fun at Adders. But let's be honest no mention in the story for 60 years > sided with Malvina then made transformer mech tanks as your only contribution.
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The Voltron style super heavy is in the works! ^-^
sided with Malvina
I was kinda hoping the Horses decide to take it to the Falcons. Kill them while they are laughing at our transformer tanks while using Interface cockpits O0
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To be honest i've lost interest in the current timeline. There are multiple reasons for that. But i'm still around here and wait for any news on my favorite clan. As there are no new information, i have to say i lost the drive on my Tau Galaxy paint project (and because i need a lot of minis for my 3050 campaign).
But give me some information on the Adders and a good reason to activate my Star Adder forces and i'm in. ;)
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To be honest i've lost interest in the current timeline. There are multiple reasons for that. But i'm still around here and wait for any news on my favorite clan. As there are no new information, i have to say i lost the drive on my Tau Galaxy paint project (and because i need a lot of minis for my 3050 campaign).
But give me some information on the Adders and a good reason to activate my Star Adder forces and i'm in. ;)
I expect at least one new design in upcoming Mini TRO Golden Century. Hoping for 2.
Maybe there is another Homeclan-related project in the pipeline, IRRC TPTB told us that a Turning Point scenario could be considered.
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We're all in the same boat. Just anything concerning the Homeworld Clans would be awesome! I'll or new...bring it!
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Any new design from the Golden Age could be a good and valid addition for my Tau Galaxy project. So hopefully you are right.
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I have to say that I prefer the Home Clans keeping away from the ongoing story development as long as possible. The longer they can do their own way and improve their development the stronger they will be when they may meet the Spheroids again.
So they could be a true adversery of the Inner Sphere.
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Strenght is not the only thing that i hope for. When the clans first appeared their culture and breeding program sounds strange. Nearly like aliens. In the meanwhile, when i look at the news and science magazines, the clan culture doesn't sound futuristic anymore.
I hope that the homeclans have developed even more to become really alien-like. So that there is a real combat between different technologies and cultures.
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I'm sure technology wise, they will be different, maybe even more so than the difference when they first appeared. Culture wise, that's all up to the writers. I could see differences already forming with WoR, but how far that goes, and how drastic, is up in the air since we have no information to go on.
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The speculation on how the Star Adders will culturally change is going to be the new bogyman that Innersphere Lords will tell stories to their children on cool summer nights over a camp fire. [blank]
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Agreed O0
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Just spotted this today...
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4765870/1/Star-Adder-Symphony
Does anyone know who did that and/or if thre is a PDF of it?
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In the just published Campaign Operation is a nice Home Clan scenario (Invasion of the Imperio Escorpion by the Coyotes). It is mentioned that the Coyotes want to establish themselves away from the shadow of the Adder Collective.
Adder Collective? What an unimaginative name!
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In the just published Campaign Operation is a nice Home Clan scenario (Invasion of the Imperio Escorpion by the Coyotes). It is mentioned that the Coyotes want to establish themselves away from the shadow of the Adder Collective.
Adder Collective? What an unimaginative name!
Yeah, but then Adders, what do you expect.
Good news is that at least of 3103 the Coyotes are still alive.
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Well I hope for something more Clan-related. Must not include *Adder*.
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Post WoR you have a 1 in 4 chance of Adders ...
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"Cloudy, with a chance of
mea Adders ..."
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"Cloudy, with a chance of mea Adders ..."
Cloud Adders confirmed! ;D
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Cloud Adders confirmed! ;D
Cloud Adder Collective, trothkin.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Full-adder.svg/550px-Full-adder.svg.png)
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(snip)
(http://apachehelicopter.tpub.com/TM-1-1520-238-T-7/img/TM-1-1520-238-T-7_343_1.jpg)
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(http://wallpapercave.com/wp/FSmyCxH.jpg)
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Yes!!!! Burn them all! hahahahahaha :D
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For those confused, Worktroll posted a "full adder circuit." I responded with, of course, a "collective."
Gaiiten, on the other hand, was having none of our nonsense. ;D
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Well Cloud Adder humour, only few understand. But those who did have a glowing smile on their faces (or on what is left of their faces) ;)
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Shame on you - that sounds extremely tainted :(
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Yeah, that sounds like filthy Spheroid talk.
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Getting brutalized in the WoR (I remember such genocides as to the Annihiliation of York, the Reavings of the Tanite worlds and the genocide of the Steel Vipers, and the utter destruction of the Blood Spirits) what did you expect?
The Adders have gotten so unscrupulous that the most brutal Smoe Jaguar looks like a cuddly kitty.
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The Adders have gotten so unscrupulous that the most brutal Smoe Jaguar looks like a cuddly kitty.
Blasphemer!
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The orbital bombardment of York killed 75% pf the planetary population, this means 75 + 80 millions dead.
What did the Smoke Jaguars on Turtle Bay? They killed 1 million.
The Adders have been willing to do this unscrupulous. As did their ancestors in the SLDF did during the Reunification War.
So be very careful to goad them.
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Survival of the fittest? O0
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The orbital bombardment of York killed 75% pf the planetary population, this means 75 + 80 millions dead.
What did the Smoke Jaguars on Turtle Bay? They killed 1 million.
Add to the Blakists and Regulus, and the Jags look less hidebound and overly conservative. In retrospect they look more like trendsetters - they were just ahead of their time }:)
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Add to the Blakists and Regulus, and the Jags look less hidebound and overly conservative. In retrospect they look more like trendsetters - they were just ahead of their time }:)
So it's not that the Clans were tainted by the Inner Sphere, it's that everyone was tainted by the Jaguars.
I can dig it.
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Not a bad trend to set. Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. O:-)
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New Tinfoil Hat Theory! The Not-Named secretly infiltrated the Jaguars, and from there infiltrated everyone else, and now are in charge of the Cloud Adders!
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Not a bad trend to set. Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. O:-)
AFAIK in the WoR only twice nukes were used. None was done by a Clan.
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That is what the Adders want you to think, after all, they were the victors and they did write the history books. >:D
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As has been proved time and again, you don't need widespread use of WMDs to commit genocide.
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As has been proved time and again, you don't need widespread use of WMDs to commit genocide.
Kentares being the textbook case. Somehow it outraged Battletech people more when a totalitarian nutcase has swords and guns used up close and personal, or when one rebellious city gets razed, than entire worlds laid waste. Seems like the lower the death toll, the more outrage and retribution factions can expect (Blakists being the exception).
That is what the Adders want you to think, after all, they were the victors and they did write the history books. >:D
In collusion with the Diamond Sharks and their recent real estate grabs - redeeming their taint by paving the way for the One True IlClan >:D
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AFAIK in the WoR only twice nukes were used. None was done by a Clan.
True though orbital bombardments, a second best to Nukes, were thrown around more.
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But better to return to convention BT warfare, this is more interesting than orbital bombardment.
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The orbital bombardment of York killed 75% pf the planetary population, this means 75 + 80 millions dead.
What did the Smoke Jaguars on Turtle Bay? They killed 1 million.
The Adders have been willing to do this unscrupulous.
The Jaguars killed civilians. The York population was trained and instructed to fight by the Blood Spirits, therefore must be counted as soldiers.
Turtle Bay was a war crime, York was a regular attack to defeat an enemy.
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The Jaguars killed civilians. The York population was trained and instructed to fight by the Blood Spirits, therefore must be counted as soldiers.
Turtle Bay was a war crime, York was a regular attack to defeat an enemy.
I'm not commenting on whether your message is right or wrong... I'm here to quibble about your description of what is not a war crime....
Attacks on legitimate military targets can still be war crimes.
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The Jaguars killed civilians. The York population was trained and instructed to fight by the Blood Spirits, therefore must be counted as soldiers.
Turtle Bay was a war crime, York was a regular attack to defeat an enemy.
And yet the Adders depopulated York. Seems overkill to me.
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But to use warships on York? Little overkill. They could have taken or dest all their dropships and jumpships. Then lelf them on planet not a threat then.
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I agree that this solution was a waste of ressources. So there is no honor in it.
But still it was a valid solution of that threat.
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But to use warships on York? Little overkill. They could have taken or dest all their dropships and jumpships. Then lelf them on planet not a threat then.
They did not kill all. 20 - 25 % of the population and 10 % of the industry survived, because the Adders did not finish what they had begun. The Adders paid for this mistake (among others the bloodbath the Spirits did on Albion).
However lesson was learnt.
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They buried the main city and used warships to basely nuc the planet.
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York was one of the few fully self-sufficient worlds in the Clan sphere. Keep York or lay waste to York each had considerable pros and cons.
It shows that sometimes the Adders can make seemingly poor strategic decisions for the sake of cleansing or reaving a dezgra population that may never fully absorb in a proper clan manner, anyway.
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Cold calculated cost-benefit analysis. York lost the calculation.
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Do you guys think it's at all possible the Adders have the ability to build a Leviathan Prime from captured Viper plans and/or material?
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Plans, sure. Shipyards and resources? Hard to say.
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After all this time I would think the addars would be able to build new warships.
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Can just imagine...an invasion fleet lead by several Leviathan Primes (and variants)...
Woohoo!
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Plans, sure. Shipyards and resources? Hard to say.
The Adders had disassembled the Viper's Lev Prime shipyard, although it was still being transported and assembled as of the end of Wars of Reaving. The Coyotes held the shipyards at Kirin, described as the largest in Clanspace as of 3085 and yet only half the size of Lum at its largest Pre WoR.
While the Kirin yards aren't in the shape to build new warships, they can repair & maintain existing ones as well as construct new dropships and jumpships. The Adders are noted as having to need to bargin for use of Coyote's Kirin yards for repair & maintanence of their fleet
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IMHO in 3103 the timespan would have been too short to construct an Leviathan Prime.
However you know how thoroughly they prepare their operations, they might plan to field a number of these huge warships.
They could even contruct a variant which can be a mobile factory for producing their war material.
From processing raw materials to construct even dropships. So they would greatly improve their logistics.
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The Star Adders are, or at least were, too pragmatic to build a fleet of Leviathan Primes. They simply cost too much to build, require too large a crew and cost too much to maintain. At best they might build one or two to lead key naval stars.
If they had been aware of them, the Home Clans would have been extremely interested in pocket warships, but their only combat experience (before contact with the Inner Sphere was cut) with them was limited to the Excaliburs deployed against the Smoke Jaguars and they were overshadowed by the sudden appearance of ComStar's WarShip fleet.
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When the homeworlds lost contact with the IS, there were many warships still operating in the IS. So if they plan a new invasion, they need a plan to handle them. I am very interested in the solution the Adders will have for that task.
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They will have to develop a new technological horror. In numbers they will never have a chance to defeat the Inner Sphere, in quality they might.
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They will have to develop a new technological horror. In numbers they will never have a chance to defeat the Inner Sphere, in quality they might.
I think the Adders would have sent some manner of spies to do some recon work. A quick run to the closest IS book store in 3125 would tell you almost all warships are gone. They would also tell you that there are these things called Pocket Warships. 1,000 years in the Future there is still going to be military nerds, they will want books with pictures and numbers of military equipment.
The Adders have an awfully long time to consolidate and repair what worlds they can. Their moritorium on hideously violent trials, would have saved manpower and equipment. I also expect that they maybe had new trials, like after the SL exodus, to leave only the cream of the crop soldier wise, and demobilized most of their military, to become the new scientists and teachers.
The Adders are good at planning, i would assume that they would also be good at planning the artificial breeding program, or even making a civilian version of it, to increase labor manpower, everyone has quintuplets for a 20 generations. Manpower would be their bottleneck, but not for long, not with artificial breeding programs.
I find it hard to believe that the Terra System which had been strip mined for 3,000 years and hadn't run out of raw materials, would somehow have more raw materials than 20 systems in the Clan Homeworlds. Don't get me wrong you need space stations to house asteroid miners, but a decommissioned Overlord IIC makes a decent sized mobile space station once you yank the mech cubicles out. The only raw materials they might be low on would be organic stuff, Hydrocarbons, but they live on some planets with working ecosystems, and there have to be moons like Titan in each of the 20 systems, or even uninhabited neighboring systems, or in the oort clouds.
The Adders have everything they need, and 100 years is potentially 20 generations of artificially bred humans, if not more, the only limitation is the number of trainers.
If they wanted too, they could very well show up with a few Dozen McKenna's, and if not loaded with PWS, loaded with Titans full of ASF's, or worse yet some new Drone System, to reduce the number of pilots and crew. Drones and Robots to do grunt work, technicians and Warriors for everything else. You jump into a system with 1,000 Drone ASF's and Dropships, and no one in the IS is going to win that battle, unless a direct assault on Terra or a Successor State Homeworld.
Before the Wars of reaving the Coyotes were creating bodyguard mechs, why not adapt that so that you have a warrior in a Omnimech or ASF with Drone Bodyguards.
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In War of Reavings, the Diamond Sharks used two Inner Sphere Excalibur-class dropships in their defense of Vinton in early 3073.
IMHO it could be possible that these ship were of the PW variant (given how effective they were in the space battles).
The Home Clans do have some a great advantages, imho, first they do have a society built upon war / conflict with no pauses as in the Inner Sphere. This will help to develop new technologies and/or improve existing. And while the civilian castes are respected, the interests of the warrior caste are the primary. So most resource will tunneled into what the warrior caste supports.
Second, they are very mobile, they can construct productive mobile production facilities very fast.
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Their 'advantages' may not be as big as you think. Since the WoR, they have mostly limited their combat to standard trials in order to rebuild their military strength after the devastating losses suffered during the WoR and to return them to traditional Clan ways. Their civilian castes have also suffered crippling casualties both during and after the WoR with the purges of the Scientist caste in order to permanently wipe out the Society. They simply can't take a group of people from other castes and declare them to be scientists. Rebuilding their scientist caste is going to take time and, for some time to come, they will be under greater scrutiny than they have ever been in order to ensure that the Society doesn't make a comeback which will limit progress.
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The Home worlds seem to have a great level of automation, do they need so many civilian caste people or is the quality (education) is far more important point?
For rebuilding the scientist caste, they could begin with transferring kind members of the technician caste. They could form a good base to begin with.
Not to forget, the secretiveness of the old tScientist caste has been broken. Better control AND inclusion of scientist`s project into respect for them could help to get this caste back in line.
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Their 'advantages' may not be as big as you think. Since the WoR, they have mostly limited their combat to standard trials in order to rebuild their military strength after the devastating losses suffered during the WoR and to return them to traditional Clan ways. Their civilian castes have also suffered crippling casualties both during and after the WoR with the purges of the Scientist caste in order to permanently wipe out the Society. They simply can't take a group of people from other castes and declare them to be scientists. Rebuilding their scientist caste is going to take time and, for some time to come, they will be under greater scrutiny than they have ever been in order to ensure that the Society doesn't make a comeback which will limit progress.
It does take time, yes, but when you are artificially breeding humans, it takes years instead of decades.
They simply took warriors and made them technicians, merchants, and scientists before the wars of reaving. Perri tested down to scientist. Don't get me wrong after the purges there wouldn't be many scientists left to be teachers, but enough would exist to train the trainer, and repeat that process several times. I find it impossible to believe, that the adders would put the military before the economy, food, water and shelter. Even the most Bone headed elemental realizes that warriors do not make war equipment, warriors do not make food, ammo and parts.
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It does take time, yes, but when you are artificially breeding humans, it takes years instead of decades.
They simply took warriors and made them technicians, merchants, and scientists before the wars of reaving. Perri tested down to scientist. Don't get me wrong after the purges there wouldn't be many scientists left to be teachers, but enough would exist to train the trainer, and repeat that process several times. I find it impossible to believe, that the adders would put the military before the economy, food, water and shelter. Even the most Bone headed elemental realizes that warriors do not make war equipment, warriors do not make food, ammo and parts.
Replacing numbers is one thing, replacing experience is another thing entirely. Would you want a brain/heart surgeon who only recently graduated medical and just completed their final internship being the primary surgeon operating on your brain/heart?
Just as being a doctor doesn't mean you are qualified to operate on a human brain, being a member of the scientist caste doesn't mean that you know anything about developing new weapons or the eugenics program. The Society recruited heavily among both areas and both areas suffered heavily in the purges.
A doctor who spent his career looking after injured warriors would almost certainly be overwhelmed trying to teach warriors about the eugenics program or weapons R&D? What about those members of the scientist caste who taught sibkos about astronavigation, etc? They don't have Omni-brains they can switch between when they need to. Even if they are in the right area, say military R&D, doesn't necessarily mean they have any experience in the sub-field (weapons design, 'Mech design, aerospace fighter design, naval vessel design, etc).
Clan Coyote's Scientist Caste was nearly exterminated after the WoR. Many members of all the Clans' scientist caste were executed simply due to guilt by association regardless of whether they were actually members of the Society or simply following the orders of a superior as Clan law and tradition dictates costing the Clans invaluable experience.
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Replacing numbers is one thing, replacing experience is another thing entirely. Would you want a brain/heart surgeon who only recently graduated medical and just completed their final internship being the primary surgeon operating on your brain/heart?
Just as being a doctor doesn't mean you are qualified to operate on a human brain, being a member of the scientist caste doesn't mean that you know anything about developing new weapons or the eugenics program. The Society recruited heavily among both areas and both areas suffered heavily in the purges.
A doctor who spent his career looking after injured warriors would almost certainly be overwhelmed trying to teach warriors about the eugenics program or weapons R&D? What about those members of the scientist caste who taught sibkos about astronavigation, etc? They don't have Omni-brains they can switch between when they need to. Even if they are in the right area, say military R&D, doesn't necessarily mean they have any experience in the sub-field (weapons design, 'Mech design, aerospace fighter design, naval vessel design, etc).
Clan Coyote's Scientist Caste was nearly exterminated after the WoR. Many members of all the Clans' scientist caste were executed simply due to guilt by association regardless of whether they were actually members of the Society or simply following the orders of a superior as Clan law and tradition dictates costing the Clans invaluable experience.
Look at how far our Real Life Scientists have come in 100 years, and they had to invent everything. The Clans didn't knock themselves back technologically to the Succession Wars, the knowledge exists, but lots of practitioners don't. Look how far scientists in the IS went from the Helm Core to 3060.
Yes there is the practical application, but that comes with the training, first is education, then residency. All Doctors for instance have a 1st time on a human, it has to happen at some point. We have simulators now for medical care, I assume in 1,000 years the simulators will be better.
Many doctors after 20 or 30 years actually do move into education, research or consulting.
You are right there is no omni brain, you wouldn't have a eugenics scientist teaching applied engineering, but he could teach the eugenics program, more than likely if I remember correctly the Clan Civilians use apprencticeships. I assume a teaching environment where you have a scientist and then a few people looking over their shoulder. Then when those few people figure it out, even more people stand over their shoulder.
When you take kids a birth, you can train them to do anything, in 20 years they become trainers themselves, with 5 generations or more of train the trainer, I don't think getting the knowledge and practical application back would be an issue, they have 100 years.
Now you are right, they are going to blow up a lot of prototypes, because they will have to relearn other people mistakes.
But I doubt they are going to start off by creating ER-Pulse Binary Naval Lasers either. Everything that was production grade before the WoR has the kinks worked out. It becomes following a recipe at that point.
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Look at how far our Real Life Scientists have come in 100 years, and they had to invent everything. The Clans didn't knock themselves back technologically to the Succession Wars, the knowledge exists, but lots of practitioners don't. Look how far scientists in the IS went from the Helm Core to 3060.
Yes there is the practical application, but that comes with the training, first is education, then residency. All Doctors for instance have a 1st time on a human, it has to happen at some point. We have simulators now for medical care, I assume in 1,000 years the simulators will be better.
Many doctors after 20 or 30 years actually do move into education, research or consulting.
You are right there is no omni brain, you wouldn't have a eugenics scientist teaching applied engineering, but he could teach the eugenics program, more than likely if I remember correctly the Clan Civilians use apprencticeships. I assume a teaching environment where you have a scientist and then a few people looking over their shoulder. Then when those few people figure it out, even more people stand over their shoulder.
When you take kids a birth, you can train them to do anything, in 20 years they become trainers themselves, with 5 generations or more of train the trainer, I don't think getting the knowledge and practical application back would be an issue, they have 100 years.
Now you are right, they are going to blow up a lot of prototypes, because they will have to relearn other people mistakes.
But I doubt they are going to start off by creating ER-Pulse Binary Naval Lasers either. Everything that was production grade before the WoR has the kinks worked out. It becomes following a recipe at that point.
It's one thing to read lab notes and scientific papers but quite another to have the author of such sources around to mentor the next generation trying to master such knowledge. Factor in the reason that the authors of those sources of knowledge are not around because they were executed for treason (more or less) and it makes mastering arcane matters even more problematic than simply understanding something complicated but politically neutral.
Consider the example of a smart technician or merchant that's been reassigned into the new scientist caste. He's keenly aware that he's there because the scientists are all dead. He may or may not even know why, but he can damn well read the writing on the wall (he is smart, afterall). The Khans expect him to master the work of the scientist(s) he's replacing, but he has to make sure he doesn't dabble in forbidden research that will get him killed too. But the trick is he doesn't necessarily know WHAT that forbidden lore is. He's going to be very methodological and careful to make sure he doesn't inadvertently do whatever it is his predecessors did that got them killed.
Even if the new scientist does actually know the full story (which I find implausible), he's still got to be skeptical about any given source of knowledge from "tainted" scientists that preceded him. What was perfected before is subject to skeptical scrutiny and must be "re-proven", by scientists without benefits of the training and institutional continuity that the scientists had the first time around.
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In fact we have no exact source which scientists are dead or which specific lessons are lost. We just know many are dead and can assume that with them there must be some losses. I agree there will be some fields where noone have survived to teach the next generation. But with the widespread knowledge the basics must be still available to teach the next generation.
They still have a good start to rebuild there caste. It might cost them some years/generations. But then they will have the resources in manpower and knowledge to kick their program to a very new level.
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I find it hard to believe that the Terra System which had been strip mined for 3,000 years and hadn't run out of raw materials, would somehow have more raw materials than 20 systems in the Clan Homeworlds. Don't get me wrong you need space stations to house asteroid miners, but a decommissioned Overlord IIC makes a decent sized mobile space station once you yank the mech cubicles out. The only raw materials they might be low on would be organic stuff, Hydrocarbons, but they live on some planets with working ecosystems, and there have to be moons like Titan in each of the 20 systems, or even uninhabited neighboring systems, or in the oort clouds.
i have long argued that the Clan Homeworld's 'limited resources" are more a factor of lack of infrastructure than lack of actual raw materials. that their focus on "doing the most with the least" in their culture means they haven't actually exploited most of the resources in their worlds beyond the easily accessible ones, and to expand their infrastructure to handle the rest would involve a restructuring of their civilian sector to be larger and more developed.. something the warriors that run their society either don't care for or aren't interested in.
i suspect the resource crisis the Smoke jaguars had wasn't them running out of raw materials, but due to their failure to exploit their OZ's existing IS built infrastructure, and having to expand their military so fast and to such size that they exceeded the production levels of their homeworlds infrastructure.
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RE: Adders and Warships.
The Lev Prime was Viper style. Something big to represent how they felt about their own Clan and its place of dominance in the Clan hierarchy.
I think there has been time to repair the Kirin shipyards, and possibly to build another shipyard or two.
If so, I imagine the Adders would be pragmatic about this, and opt to build multiple smaller warships with their best technology available, instead of one big ship that can get ripped apart in a flash, literally, the way the Zalman did.
The Viper strategy of one huge warship to lead their fleet in imposing dominance required too many proverbial eggs to be in one basket. Losing the Zalman was a huge blow that the Vipers could not withstand.
I imagine this is exactly why the Ravens never built their own.
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The Addars could have a decent fleet of warships and PW warships by now.
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RE: Adders and Warships.
The Lev Prime was Viper style. Something big to represent how they felt about their own Clan and its place of dominance in the Clan hierarchy.
I think there has been time to repair the Kirin shipyards, and possibly to build another shipyard or two.
If so, I imagine the Adders would be pragmatic about this, and opt to build multiple smaller warships with their best technology available, instead of one big ship that can get ripped apart in a flash, literally, the way the Zalman did.
The Viper strategy of one huge warship to lead their fleet in imposing dominance required too many proverbial eggs to be in one basket. Losing the Zalman was a huge blow that the Vipers could not withstand.
I imagine this is exactly why the Ravens never built their own.
I agree with this, instead of one big Lev Prime, you can get hordes of Fredesa Corvettes, or even a hordes of Yorks Destroyers. I am pretty sure a dozen York Destroyers would eat a Lev Prime, and still be combat capable enough to move onto the next world after.
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I agree with this, instead of one big Lev Prime, you can get hordes of Fredesa Corvettes, or even a hordes of Yorks Destroyers. I am pretty sure a dozen York Destroyers would eat a Lev Prime, and still be combat capable enough to move onto the next world after.
Exactamundo. All it takes is one KF drive activation to kill a Lev Prime. That was what we saw in WoR.
A Fleet of smaller Destroyers, Corvettes, some larger Armed Transport Cruisers, and maybe some Cruiser-weight ships is a different story.
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Great points Rebs! I'd have to strongly agree with them. Although I do giggle like a school girl at the prospect of the Adders using a Leviathan Prime as a command ship/mobile factory.
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It would be awesome to see the Adders concentrate that much power again.
I just kind of extrapolate on GhostBear having said many times that we'll probably never learn the Leviathan Prime's stats, and then take that to the conclusion that no faction will likely ever build one again, too.
edit: And I do hate being a wet blanket. A new Lev Prime yard orbiting Bearclaw would be a lot of fun.
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I could see the Home Clans digging into the wreckage of the Ancestral Home and/or the Zalman and utilizing the best tech improvements from these ships. Provided enough time and wreckage. And I would assume the Home Clans have plenty of each.
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I could see the Home Clans digging into the wreckage of the Ancestral Home and/or the Zalman and utilizing the best tech improvements from these ships. Provided enough time and wreckage. And I would assume the Home Clans have plenty of each.
We now have IS Tech, Clan Tech, and SUPER Clan Tech! :D
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We now have IS Tech, Clan Tech, and SUPER Clan Tech! :D
Despite their initial response to Society Tech, the Home Clans don't look like they will put up much resistance to the advancements it brings.
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We now have IS Tech, Clan Tech, and SUPER Clan Tech! :D
I am not interested until they have SUPER DUPER Clan Tech!
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I am not interested until they have SUPER DUPER Clan Tech!
Like a pulse gauss rotary munch cannon tied to a targeting computer?
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A NavalPPC at the size of a regular ER PPC, so that it can be mounted on an omnimech.
Something like that to make duels with that tainted IS Clan stravags a bit ... surprising.
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A ATM which shots mini nucs.
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A ATM which shots mini nucs.
The HML - Habeas Missile Launcher?
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The HML - Habeas Missile Launcher?
Isn't that Cat Powered?
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Isn't that Cat Powered?
Call for the new HML-equipped CATapult ...
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Well after five years, which is like 60 months, I make warrant officer on the forums. Meanwhile this thread that I started after five years is only at page 42. Lol
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Omni-Protomechs and XL-reactors for Protomechs could be a good improvment for Protomechs.
Sub-capital PPCs, sub-capital pulselasers and sub-capital gauss cannons would be a nice extension of the arsenal either.
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Omni-Protomechs and XL-reactors for Protomechs could be a good improvment for Protomechs.
Sub-capital PPCs, sub-capital pulselasers and sub-capital gauss cannons would be a nice extension of the arsenal either.
The Sub capital weapons sound like a good idea, would be nice to see more assault dropships in the arsenal.
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On the cover of Wars of Reaving SB there are some Elementals equipped with a different kind of backpack.
Instead of the SRM there are many *holes*.
What weapon could that be? Some kind of a *grapeshot/canistershot*?
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On the cover of Wars of Reaving SB there are some Elementals equipped with a different kind of backpack.
Instead of the SRM there are many *holes*.
What weapon could that be? Some kind of a *grapeshot/canistershot*?
At some point somewhere, Ben said it was going to be a new BA-scale weapon, but the cover was started before the weapon design was completed and the the BA weapon never made it out of the design stage.
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In this post given early WoR concept (see here: https://benhrome.wordpress.com/2015/08/20/what-was-before-is-not-what-was-to-come/) hyper-enhanced Advanced Elementals are mentioned.
What would they have been? A improved genotype? A new battle armor? Or both?
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In this post given early WoR concept (see here: https://benhrome.wordpress.com/2015/08/20/what-was-before-is-not-what-was-to-come/) hyper-enhanced Advanced Elementals are mentioned.
What would they have been? A improved genotype? A new battle armor? Or both?
Since it's talking about Society troops, to me that reads like he was talking about virotherapy-enhanced Elementals in some way.
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Since it's talking about Society troops, to me that reads like he was talking about virotherapy-enhanced Elementals in some way.
Could be, but I doubt that the idea of virotherapy-enhancment was developed then.
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A good idea for the Homeclans to improve their society would be introducing and using an increasing rate of automation.
I do not think of automated weapons (as to drone Mechs or so on) but of maintenance robots, full-automated mining or production facilities and do on.
Humans are the warriors who dominate, machines feed the warriors.
In real life we have been approaching more and more Industry 4.0. Would be very appreciated if this could have some influence in future storyline.
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'Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 90 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.'
That pretty much says it all... 3 years since the last Adder post.
Come on, we're the ilClan in all but name, where's everyone hiding? :)
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There's still a few Star Adder fans kicking around the forum, quietly biding their time for when they reveal their might.
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Well...I can always remind people that the Adders' do have this kicking around...also now in miniature form! LOL Thankfully the TRO is FINALLY in layout...but it is slow going.
(https://ariesgamesandminis.com/images/Aries_OmniMech/Aries%20OmniMech%20(875%20x%20920).png)
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Well...I can always remind people that the Adders' do have this kicking around...also now in miniature form! LOL Thankfully the TRO is FINALLY in layout...but it is slow going.
(https://ariesgamesandminis.com/images/Aries_OmniMech/Aries%20OmniMech%20(875%20x%20920).png)
I can vouch for the awesomeness of the mini!
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so looking forwards to the Ares TRO.
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I can vouch for the awesomeness of the mini!
Thanks Sjhernan!
so looking forwards to the Ares TRO.
Ohhh just wait...got some more adder love in there!
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Thanks Sjhernan!
Ohhh just wait...got some more adder love in there!
Tis very much a case of *grabby hands* :D
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Tis very much a case of *grabby hands* :D
Hahaha...I hope all won't be disappointed. Art from Ben Meyers, Matt Plog, and Stephen Huda
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Well...I can always remind people that the Adders' do have this kicking around...also now in miniature form! LOL Thankfully the TRO is FINALLY in layout...but it is slow going.
Which TRO?
As long as it has a few fast/jumpy mediums with multiple HML tied to a TC (or ATM's), I'll be happy. Both weapons are very hard hitting and very cheap in BV, even with a TC to eliminate the penalty for the heavy lasers. When mounted on a highly mobile platform their range issues are mitigated.
We need more official mechs that use the Adder signature weapon and are actually built properly. Too many heavy laser designs put short range weapons on slow mechs or use inefficient HLL, especially on fragile units. Even worse, almost all keep the to hit penalty.
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The Aries Games & Miniatures TRO. It's in layout now...after a few stumbles with other layout people. From the sounds of it...you won't be disappointed! >:D :thumbsup:
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Post WOR do the adders have a “ hated” foe anymore? I know the coyotes hated them
But was that only one sided?
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Well...that's kind of what the TRO is about so I can't say...but...
In universe, they are dealing with the current bastion and aggressor ideology, but they don't "hate" anyone right now. They definitely have the Coyotes in check though because of their part of the society.
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Did the adders cache any of their fleet post reavings? I recall it be the largest still?
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Immediately post reaving the adders had the biggest HW fleet but did they moth ball any of it? Would they have needed such a large fleet?
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to paraphrase ron white
i didn't know how many warships they needed to kick my ass. but i knew how many they were going to use.
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Ya know...I always felt like the Cobras had more...maybe i missed something or it's been so long that I honestly cannot remember the size of the Adder fleet.
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Ya know...I always felt like the Cobras had more...maybe i missed something or it's been so long that I honestly cannot remember the size of the Adder fleet.
[/quote
I would guess that immediately post reavings the cobras would have the most elite fleet but I think the adders had the numbers...
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Was rereading the Hannibal bannchek entry and it stated he was commended for “preventing massive “ losses during the viper annihilation. Was this because he ordered bombardments?
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Was rereading the Hannibal bannchek entry and it stated he was commended for “preventing massive “ losses during the viper annihilation. Was this because he ordered bombardments?
Without further details, we can only speculate that yes Banacek's ordering of orbital bombardment against a dezgra enemy earned him more respect from the other Khams than he already had for bashing Brett Andrews face in.
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'Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 90 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.'
That pretty much says it all... 3 years since the last Adder post.
Come on, we're the ilClan in all but name, where's everyone hiding? :)
Sorry I rarely post now days. I usually just check around every few months for a look see.
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Do you think that the Adders do have clandestine operations running in the Inner Sphere in the Dark Age era?
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Do you think that the Adders do have clandestine operations running in the Inner Sphere in the Dark Age era?
Wouldn't that be tainted?
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They might have been developed a Ritual of Purification, for the Home Clan people involved.
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If the blackout extends to the Home Worlds, a well coordinated invasion done Adder style will be difficult to pull off. Same with clandestine ops.
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What if the Homeclans are behind the Blackout?
They could have used an new version of the HPG virus, the Society used in the WoR.
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If the Home Clans were behind the blackout, they probably would have struck by now.
I could be wrong, though.
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Per my understanding of the complete WoR arc any action like that would be a huge break of their own self-conception.
Maybe if news of the situation in the IS reaches the homeworlds they may find a reason to start a new invasion. But in that case they will have adopted new tech and tactics that avoid their mistakes from Revival and match their honor code.
E.g. when they understand the value of ressources and supplies, the possibilities of air and naval supperiority and define all IS people, warriors and civilists, as tainted, they will come with huge fleets ready to orbital bomb any major industry and city to the ground faster than the IS can react.
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If the Home Clans were behind the blackout, they probably would have struck by now.
They might have done this, because it would have kept the Inner Sphere powers focused on the Inner Sphere and nothing else.
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Do the adders control shipyards post WOR?
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The Priori Shipyards are described as being still under repair.
A new shipyard (a very huge one) is reported as being constructed in the Hoard system (the Adders moved the captured Leviathan Prime yards to this system).
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The Priori Shipyards are described as being still under repair.
A new shipyard (a very huge one) is reported as being constructed in the Hoard system (the Adders moved the captured Leviathan Prime yards to this system).
Dang! They got out of the WOR with all the best toys huh?
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Dang! They got out of the WOR with all the best toys huh?
The biggest guy in the sand box gets the biggest toys, does he not? ;)
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The biggest guy in the sand box gets the biggest toys, does he not? ;)
Yes, sometimes he does.
Just imagine, Adder led force, using newly constructed Lev's with the flaws taken out (if there ever were any) in multiple configurations, hitting the Inner Sphere!
:drool:
And then just like that one of the writers will kill them off in a big bang.
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Hello Adders,
I was looking back through the Revival Trials turning point and wondered if the Adders could have secured an invasion corridor if they wanted too. Their TO&E is fluffed as somewhere north of 10 galaxies so they seem to have the forces to participate. Would their strategic mindset have hampered them in securing a corridor over say the Ghost Bears?
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The Adders realized that the overall planning for the invasion was doomed. We argued for larger invasion forces - and in the end got right.
But with the given conditions we had no intention to waste our troops for that operation.
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Yup, Adders played the long game. The Adders felt that the other top tier clans would bleed themselves dry in the IS. They bid far more forces than anyone else so they lost in the initial trials I think. They focused and consolidated in the homeworlds as best as they could, in order to be the strongest remaining. Smart positioning led to them masterminding the end of the Reavings.
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The Adders bid as the SLDF would have done: full power.
They are the only true heirs of the SLDF.
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I can say if the other clans had listened to the Adder's Khan during the planning of Revival, by 3055 there would have been a Clan lead Star League. Not saying it would last but if you go back and look at what happened in cannon and what the Adder's plan is, the Inner Sphere would have been in shatters. Revival consisted of 4 clans with 3 galaxies of front-line galaxies each and then 3 more clans in reserve with another 3 galaxies each. 21 galaxies in total. Before Tukiyyad the Inner Sphere had three major "Victories"; Luthien, Walcott and Twycross. Twycross was still a loss in the end while Walcott was won by a fluke in my opinion. At this point in time the Clans were seen as unstoppable.
And this was 4-6 separate factions attaching the whole of the Inner Sphere. They were competing with each other during Revival up until Tukiyyad. While the Inner Sphere was by no means a united front, remember that the FedCom and Dracs stripped their other boarders to face the Clans. And it took 7 regiments of the most elite mercs and several high profile line regiments to defend Luthien.
If we look at the Clans as a whole at the time of Revival, there were 17 full remaining clans. Per the bidding section in OTP: Revival Trials the traditional smallest Clan, Blood Spirit, bid 9 Galaxies. Just going off the clans that bid in the first round, there were 121 Galaxies bid. And that with Wolf and Snow Raven not bidding, along with the Adders not giving a number instead bidding their entire Clan. This is almost 6 times as large as the troops deployed in Revival. And I don't believe it is out of the realms of possibilities they a united Clan front would have been close to 150 galaxies with probably a 3rd or more of those being front line formations.
If the Clans had followed the Adder's plans for a united assault, using each clan to their strengths Luthien and Tharkad would have fallen within 2 years along with the complete destruction of the FRR. By the 4th year Skye and Dieron are both under Clan control, also more than likely Hephaestus, all of these are within striking distance of Terra. If the ComGuards had not been smashed trying to halt assault earlier after learning of the Clan's ultimate objective they would make their stand on Terra. More than likely calling in support from the what is left of the AFFC and FWLM to protect Terra.
At this point I think the real meat of this AR take on the invasion would come. If all twenty armies of the ComGuards were still online along with the Comstar Militia were set to defend Terra and its fortifications, then add in 2 or 3 brigades from the AFFC that have survived and probably double or triple that number from the FWLM(at this time Marik was still a plant from ComStar). This would be the fight the Clans would be gearing up to the entire invasion. This would be a hard battle, that would probably take years but would be worthy of its own Remembrance all together.
Now I know this would never happen. The Clans have always been to fractured to ever work together. Even Klondike and the Wolverine Annihilation had the clans thinking how the battle would improve its standing instead of the goal it's self. But its one of the reasons I love Star Adder so much. Their strategic thinking to look at the long picture and their goals.
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And don't forget the naval fleets. I don't think that a Adder lead invasion would deny this huge advantage. It would have been a revival of old SLDF tactics.
But in the end the Adders weren't strong enough to unit all clans before Revival. And after the WoR the clans in total lack the numbers to do the job. But i'm looking forward what happened in the homeworld and if the Adders still follow the plan to bring a united clan force to the IS.
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The Adders ‘leading’ a ‘united’ front of Clan forces in the Invasion would have done tremendous damage. I agree with Zell’s assessment with only one thing not considered: the Homeworlds.
Had 80% of the Clan’s Toumans been sent off into the Inner Sphere the Wars of Reaving would have happened much sooner. I’d imagine the Scientist Caste revolting, the Burrock treachery and Bandit Caste upraising, and evening new Clans rising up to lay claim to Clan Homeworlds while the major forces were conquering the Inner Sphere. So by 3055 they’re at Terra’s doorstep but what is behind them? Do the even care anymore what’s behind them or do they all pull a Ghost Bear Dominion?
Interesting questions for an AU honestly.
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I don't see the WoR coming with that starting assumption.
The Adders have a far better understanding and treatment of their lower castes. I have no hard numbers, but i wouldn't expect much participation of Adder scientists in the revolt. So if the Adders lead and dictate, their is not that hardship for the scientists that lead to the revolt.
There might be room for the Burrock treachery with the Bandits as this ties are older than Operation Revival. But there is even more united power to handle that. And also the Burrock forces would be split. So there is no change in the balance of power from that.
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Several good points. I do disagree on a couple of things.
At no point did I think this would be an Adder lead invasion. Before the Revival Trials, Leo Showers had already been elected ilKhan, and Elias Crichell had already positioned him as one of his closest allies. What I was purposing was the clans going with Cassius N'Buta's plan to invade in force. Khan N'Buta wanted to position the Adders in a leading roll of advisers and trying to help guide the invasion. But I have always saw this as an invasion by the Clans as a whole, lead by the ilKhan and dictated by the Grand Council. The Adders weren't looking to change the other clans, only to help direct the Invasion as Crusaders they believed was the correct course for history.
As for the War of Reaving there are parts I would agree with on and things I don't. While I do believe there would be a inter clan war at some point, I do believe it would be much different. The WoR was a perfect storm of events that coincided to create the right conditions for war. There is mainly 4 points that were a major factor in the WoR; the Burrock betrayal, the Homeworld/Invader divide, the Caste revolt by the Scientist Caste and Brett Andrews. Lets look at each of these points.
- The Burrock betrayal was caused by one chain of events. After Revival started, the Khans of Burrock were trying to cover up evidence of their predecessors dealings with the Dark Caste, this cover up led to the Adders finding this evidence which led to the Absorption of the Burrocks by the Adders. Because of the almost whole sale absorption of Burrock warriors, many did not acclimate to becoming Adders and instead of addressing this problem the Adders through them all in Upsilon Galaxy to be forgotten. This allowed Burrock to begin again and turn to the Dark Caste for help. I argue that this line of events would have never accrued. With both the Adders and Burrocks involved in the invasion nether of the events that lead to the Absorption would have happened and more than likely the Burrocks dealings with the Dark Caste would have been business as usual atleast until after the invasion was complete. Burrock might have played a part in a later Caste revolt just due to both's connection with the Dark Caste, but I don't see it happening as quick, or as effective. Instead of having all the Burrock collaborators in one unit, you would have them split over a full clan, that was never 100% in with the Dark Caste.
- Another major factor was the Homeworld vs Invader divide that came after the Battle of Tukiyyad. The Invaders had gained a lot of power and the Homeworld clans were jealous of that power. This increased the rate of Trials between the two groups. Then add on that in the space of 15 years you have a Clan absorbed, another fractured in two, one annihilated by the Inner Sphere, another abjured to join the Inner Sphere, one up and leaves the Homeworlds to form a new nation in the IS and finally one gets kicked back to the Homeworlds in humiliation. The societal change and power vacuum this caused was devastating. This alone was already starting to tear the clans apart. For the most part giving the clans a single focus would have helped unify them in this regard and stopping most of these issues at least for the short term.
- For the Caste Revolt and the Bloody ilKhan I'll put these together as one point. For the most part I don't believe the Society would have been changed much by a unified invasion over the original one. But I do believe their actions would have changed. Up until the WoR the Society was content to continue its research and work to a future where they could lead. It was never their choice to revolt when they did, they felt they were pushed into it by the declaration of Brett Andrews and his call for Trials of Reaving on any Legacy he deemed tainted by the Inner Sphere corruption. This was the spark that launched the Society to start their war.
So what does homeworlds look like in a post successful Revival look like? Looking a Revival planed and administered with foresight of N'Bute I believe it would unfold as such. For the first 2 to 4 waves of the your looking at primarily Front Line Galaxies only. Your using your best troops to take and conquer worlds, with most garrison forces your facing in the first phase unprepared for front line troops. By the 4th wave, the Combine and Commonwealth are moving troops forward and are working on counter attacks. By this time, Clan second line Galaxies have been moved up from the homeworlds, likely 3 to 6 months behind the front of the invasion. Your using the second line troops to garrison your conquered worlds and taking care of the uprisings that are being formed on these worlds. Your more than likely also moving up scores of Civilians to administrator the world's own Civilian population, Technicians, Merchants, and Scientists.
In the homeworlds you've got 3 main groups;
- Warriors from Solahma Clusters and PGCs to protect the homeworlds from Dark Caste raids.
- Sibkos and the Scientist/Warriors training them
- And the Civilians that could not be moved to keep the Homeworlds operational.
I'm pretty sure if they have reached and taken Terra the Homeworlds would have been abandoned. The bigger question is would the Clans care about moving their remaining civilians and forces from the homeworlds? Would those left behind form the Society at this point?
From an AU stand point I believe the Clans at this point are more Stable then they were during the WoR. You have an Inner Sphere split between 17 factions with multiple worlds requiring integration. The inter Clan fighting would be at a minimum at this point as they have more internal problems to deal with. I do believe this would be troubling times and see more than a few clans fall as they are unable to integrate with their new civilians. But that is the fun of an AU, looking at where things could go.
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The Adders ‘leading’ a ‘united’ front of Clan forces in the Invasion would have done tremendous damage. I agree with Zell’s assessment with only one thing not considered: the Homeworlds.
Had 80% of the Clan’s Toumans been sent off into the Inner Sphere the Wars of Reaving would have happened much sooner. I’d imagine the Scientist Caste revolting, the Burrock treachery and Bandit Caste upraising, and evening new Clans rising up to lay claim to Clan Homeworlds while the major forces were conquering the Inner Sphere. So by 3055 they’re at Terra’s doorstep but what is behind them? Do the even care anymore what’s behind them or do they all pull a Ghost Bear Dominion?
I gotta disagree so much of the WOR came from the festering feeling of frustration and denied opportunities that the failure of InVasion
Interesting questions for an AU honestly.
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Did burrock revolt result in those bloodlines being reaved?
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Did burrock revolt result in those bloodlines being reaved?
I think some of the older, minor bloodlines were kept. I'll have to double check the books to be sure.
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I think some of the older, minor bloodlines were kept. I'll have to double check the books to be sure.
I know alot * was happening then but I would think that would warrant big time crack down
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I think the crackdown came in the way they educate their sibkos. The Wars of Reaving list indicates that the the Adders kept most of their prominent Burrock bloodlines. The Adders are also keeping most of the prominent exclusive Steel Viper lines too.
Education will be the key. "We are all Star Adders, quaif?" No need to even mention other Clans by name.
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Did the adders or cobras control Tanis post WOR?
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I think the Tanis system was rendered uninhabitable by the fighting on the surface, and actions from orbit.
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Tanis was depopulated, but not necessarily rendered uninhabitable. Regardless, who controls it is a moot point
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So far many of the Homeworlds which are not listed as being occupied by the Clans anymore might get resettled.
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So far many of the Homeworlds which are not listed as being occupied by the Clans anymore might get resettled.
It really varies world by world. For example, York is a complete write-off.
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While noone will ever settle on York the planet itself should be very interesting for salvage teams.
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The worlds listed a being untenable and abandoned are:
Albion
Atreus
Circe
Colleen
Delios
Eden
Ironhold
Lum
Marshall
New Kent
Paxon
Priori
Shadow
Tanis
Tranquil
Vinton
York
Some worlds as to New Kent, Vinton and York are described as being radically damaged by military action.
Others are described as losing their population due the WoR.
But others simply appear as being abandoned (e.g. Ironhold, Paxon).
I think there could be most of the planets resettled or at least the raw materials still there could be used.
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Many homeworlds were described as scarce and only marginaly habitable. Living was harsh. So there should be a reason to settle there.
In the past it was maybe a run for rare raw materials. Or maybe strategic value, trade routes etc.
With a decimated population and miliary there isn't a need for that much raw materials or the needed material should be available easier. Worst case you need a small mining colony, but no real population.
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Further, the Home Clans could use Robotic Technologies (mining, production) for using these resources.