Author Topic: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder  (Read 221268 times)

Gäiten

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #960 on: 10 October 2014, 13:15:20 »
Sure.
However what about Battle of Tukkayyid 2 in the current storyline?
This time led by an Adder ilKhan?
Versus the ROTS.

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #961 on: 10 October 2014, 15:37:24 »
Tukkayyid 2 Adders verses ROTS

Hmm, I would need to get the 3145 books. I am only up to date around 3085. So I could not comment accurately on it. Though to me it would be total speculation since we do not know what the home Clans have been up to in the new timeline. No Idea on equipment used or if there has been a tactical change in the home Clans approach to warfare. The strategy, tactics and equipment used would be important to look at in this scenario to accurately predict a possible out come. Aff?

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #962 on: 11 October 2014, 09:05:22 »
Totally random thoughts in the morning, Adder addition:

Could you imagine what was going through Stanislav N'Buta's head when he was putting together his final speech?  I tried to explain how all this went down to someone who does not play, and came up with this dialog.  Not that a non-player would get it, but I figured this thread would if anyone would. 

"Ohhh, good idea, Stan the man with the master plan.  Now that works.  Andy will have to kill me for that.  He might even shoot me right there on the spot.  Really, I do not see how he could possibly not shoot me right there on the spot.  He will have to shoot me, I'll make sure my face stays neutral until right there at that part and then crack a smile.  Right there.  Oh yeah, he will have to shoot me.  I will make sure of it.  Good thing the Hall of Khans is wrecked pretty good, or this plan would not be so great.  Close quarters makes it all work.  Hannibal will have a chance aboard the McKenna's Pride.  Yes, there he will be just fine.  There he will have a good chance to bop some sense into Andy.  I am quite positive Andy will be be rather sensible, then, after he is put down. 

"I sure do hope Hannibal Cannibal uses some of those old Terran pro-wrestling moves from the old holovids he is so fond of watching in his quarters...   What a sight that will be.  Too bad none of this works unless I get shot.  I would love to be there to see it happen" 
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cold1

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #963 on: 11 October 2014, 10:57:43 »
N'buta knew two things
His sacrifice was likely, and would be for the good of the clans
Hannibal Banacek would avenge his death, and knew how to deal with the Vipers.

There seems to be good evidence of Adder khans grooming their successor.  N'buta knew his sakhan would be prepared to take over.


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jklantern

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #964 on: 11 October 2014, 11:26:05 »
N'buta knew two things
His sacrifice was likely, and would be for the good of the clans
Hannibal Banacek would avenge his death, and knew how to deal with the Vipers.

There seems to be good evidence of Adder khans grooming their successor.  N'buta knew his sakhan would be prepared to take over.

Wait, we're supposed to prepare GOOD Successors?  I thought we were supposed to make them as crappy as possible so we look good in comparison!
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cold1

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #965 on: 11 October 2014, 16:06:24 »
Wait, we're supposed to prepare GOOD Successors?  I thought we were supposed to make them as crappy as possible so we look good in comparison!

Most of the surviving clans have a history of khans passing the torch to a groomed successor.  The clans where some one gets mad and whacks the khan in a duel for the khanship all seem to have died or being dying.


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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #966 on: 11 October 2014, 16:15:56 »
Most of the surviving clans have a history of khans passing the torch to a groomed successor.  The clans where some one gets mad and whacks the khan in a duel for the khanship all seem to have died or being dying.

This is the Clans we're talking about.  Whacking a Khan is ALWAYS an option!   ;D

(I do agree that the ones that remain in both the HW and IS are, generally speaking, the more stable ones.  Generally speaking.)
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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #967 on: 11 October 2014, 16:37:39 »
Most of the surviving clans have a history of khans passing the torch to a groomed successor.  The clans where some one gets mad and whacks the khan in a duel for the khanship all seem to have died or being dying.

Last time I checked the Ghost Bears, Wolves, Ravens and Jade Falcons are all still around.
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wellspring

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #968 on: 11 October 2014, 16:41:00 »
Time which the ComGuards could have used to defeat the other Clans and redeploy additional forces against the Adders.  Additional forces which could have easily pushed them beyond their supplies or combat ability to overcome (by the end of the battle even Clan Wolf was running out of ammunition).

I think this is the main problem with a Tukayyid scenario. Plus, risking everything on a single roll of the dice is very counter to the Star Adder way of doing business.

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #969 on: 11 October 2014, 18:48:12 »
I am in agreement wellspring.

cold1

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #970 on: 11 October 2014, 20:53:22 »
Last time I checked the Ghost Bears, Wolves, Ravens and Jade Falcons are all still around.

And all are more level headed than the Hellions, Spirits, Mandrills, and Vipers.


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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #971 on: 11 October 2014, 21:38:58 »
And all are more level headed than the Hellions, Spirits, Mandrills, and Vipers.

Ghost Bears willing to kill "allies" in order to kill Blakists and following Aletha Kabrinski's lead in dealing with the Nova Cats.  Of course there is the Jade Falcon's Malvina Hazen and her Golden Ordun.
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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #972 on: 12 October 2014, 03:40:47 »
N'buta knew two things
His sacrifice was likely, and would be for the good of the clans
Hannibal Banacek would avenge his death, and knew how to deal with the Vipers.

There seems to be good evidence of Adder khans grooming their successor.  N'buta knew his sakhan would be prepared to take over.

Right on.  At the heart of every joke is a nugget of the truth. 

The nug I was digging in that silly little post of mine from yesterday is a chunk of ferro lamelor veritas.  Gold has nothing on it, unless it's part of the paint scheme.  O0

That is what makes the Adders different.  They have plans that cover everything, including a mentioned but still nebulous (as far as fans know, anyway) master plan laid out by their founder.  "Long game" is almost an inadequate term for the Adders' purposes.

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #973 on: 12 October 2014, 03:43:03 »
I think this is the main problem with a Tukayyid scenario. Plus, risking everything on a single roll of the dice is very counter to the Star Adder way of doing business.
Given the right opportunities, I believe they are going to agree to such a battle. They might even suggest it.

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #974 on: 12 October 2014, 04:31:54 »
He might even shoot me right there on the spot.  Really, I do not see how he could possibly not shoot me right there on the spot.  He will have to shoot me, I'll make sure my face stays neutral until right there at that part and then crack a smile.  Right there.  Oh yeah, he will have to shoot me.  I will make sure of it.

There's no way Stanislav would have expected to be shot because weapons were not allowed in the Hall of Khans to begin with.  Brett Andrews basically smuggled his weapon to the meeting and it was a shock to everyone when he pulled it out.
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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #975 on: 12 October 2014, 04:42:27 »
There's no way Stanislav would have expected to be shot because weapons were not allowed in the Hall of Khans to begin with.  Brett Andrews basically smuggled his weapon to the meeting and it was a shock to everyone when he pulled it out.

I would imagine that Stanislav N'Buta had many ways in which he learned things.

And who would be easier to spy upon than an ally?  It could be quite easy him to know that Andrews totes a gun.  We have absolutely no evidence that this was the only time Andrews armed himself for the Grand Council. 

Andrews portrait in the WoR shows him wearing bullet-proof armor almost exactly like that worn by Nick K in Op Klondike.  No other ilKhan is displayed wearing such a thing.  If that is his portrait, then I feel that reflects his state of mind.  So indeed, such a man might not have a laser pistol at every meeting; sometimes he might have two of them.
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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #976 on: 12 October 2014, 04:50:12 »
I would imagine that Stanislav N'Buta had many ways in which he learned things.

And who would be easier to spy upon than an ally?  It could be quite easy him to know that Andrews totes a gun.  We have absolutely no evidence that this was the only time Andrews armed himself for the Grand Council. 

In that case why wouldn't Stanislav wear a bulletproof vest himself, as well as a bulletproof ceremonial mask for good measure.  He didin't have to die, the act of Brett Andrews shooting him would have been enough to discredit Andrews, so if Stanislav knew that Andrews could be armed he should have taken more precautions.
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cold1

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #977 on: 12 October 2014, 06:36:42 »
The WoR text pretty much states N'buta thought dying was a possibility.   He knew Andrews had pretty much lost it.  His point was to provoke him. 

No, he didn't plan on Andrews pulling out a gun and shooting him.  And while he was confident Hannibal knew what to do; he probably did not expect him to give the ilkhan an Adder mask skull crusher finishing move.


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rebs

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #978 on: 12 October 2014, 10:35:29 »
In that case why wouldn't Stanislav wear a bulletproof vest himself, as well as a bulletproof ceremonial mask for good measure.  He didin't have to die, the act of Brett Andrews shooting him would have been enough to discredit Andrews, so if Stanislav knew that Andrews could be armed he should have taken more precautions.

You make good points, but...

The gun was from a desk in the McKenna's Pryde conference room executive offices.  It was apparently sitting in there for some amount of time.  Who knows how long, or how it got there, so I for one will not rule out the Adders setting up favorable ground for moving their plans forward. 

He was sacrificing his life.   So while I will not say Stanislav knew with 100% certainty a gun would be pulled on him and that he would be shot between the eyes, he knew something was going to happen.  He was unafraid of death, regardless, and removed his mask for his speech, if we recall correctly. 

Regardless of what the man knew and did not know, he more or less told Hannibal Banacek that he would one day understand.  I feel for that reason, yes, the text strongly indicates that Stanislav N'Buta did know more than he was letting on, even to his own saKhan.  He could have had his watch plant that gun there, simply setting up favorable conditions.  Precautions that would have saved his life would then be counterproductive to making the machinery of Clan Justice begin to move again, and in the direction that he wanted it to go.

Because the alternative is couple too many convenient coincidences. 

And the Adders are not the Coincidence Clan, that's the Coyotes.  ;)
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wellspring

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #979 on: 13 October 2014, 13:32:52 »
There's no way Stanislav would have expected to be shot because weapons were not allowed in the Hall of Khans to begin with.  Brett Andrews basically smuggled his weapon to the meeting and it was a shock to everyone when he pulled it out.

I don't know that it was a total shock.

Remember, Andrews thought the Adders were allies right up until they turned on him. They might well have known because he told them. Alternately, the Adders have a dedicated intelligence branch. They'd already seen him do something similar previously, to the Sharks, to kick off the WoR.

His WoR bio speculates that he might have been about to call out another clan when the Adders called him out instead; a pistol would have come in handy in that case. Also, keep in mind that this wasn't strictly speaking the Hall of Khans. It was an alternate location (the officers' conference room on McKenna's Pride) that was legally equivalent for the purposes of the meeting.

Here's one possible scenario. Imagine that Andrews was going to go after another Clan. He naturally coordinates with the Cobras and Adders, as before. So they know the plan. Let's say he's going after the Scorpions next, and he's cooked up some pretext. He arranges for the Grand Council chamber to be unavailable and so they meet in orbit in MP's wardroom. He calls the Scorpions out, and then shoots their Khans dead. The Cobras and Adders would agree that his act was legal (not being in the real council chamber) and was simply clever and bold, as it was with Angus Labov. In orbit, Cobra ASFs are standing by to eliminate the Scorpions' ships before they can get the warning out. The Vipers have the lifetime achievement award in the field of self-righteous hypocrisy. When they do it, it's right. So why not do it?

It's not a terrible plan, but on hearing it, the Cobra and Adder Khans share a look. This is the moment. With but a few tweaks, the fury can be redirected right back onto the Vipers, who have long since outlived their usefulness.

You can imagine a similar scenario if the intended target was the Coyotes (perhaps their Trials of Cleansing were simply a way to weaken them prior to being set upon). Or the Cobras, who had their own crimes and might have been targeted to be crippled or destroyed.

With that said, the Adders clearly were already moving to eliminate the Vipers. N'Buta's warning might not have been grounded in specific knowledge of what was coming, as opposed to general certainty that the Vipers were likely to react in a way that could be twisted against them, and that Andrews was likely to target him directly.

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #980 on: 05 January 2015, 11:04:42 »
I would think that after the WoR the Adders would have really even more so than before would have studied and learned from those who used Anti - Clan tactics such as the Society who went right at the weaknesses of the clan way of fighting. Do we have any sense that the Adders and or the other Clans actually learned from the WoR?

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #981 on: 05 January 2015, 12:11:05 »
The Adders seem to learn from everything historically (much to the chagrin of some).  We have no indication if that changes or not though.


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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #982 on: 05 January 2015, 12:50:26 »
Maybe we will learn soon  ;)

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #983 on: 05 January 2015, 15:07:35 »
Here's one possible scenario. Imagine that Andrews was going to go after another Clan. He naturally coordinates with the Cobras and Adders, as before. So they know the plan. Let's say he's going after the Scorpions next, and he's cooked up some pretext. He arranges for the Grand Council chamber to be unavailable and so they meet in orbit in MP's wardroom. He calls the Scorpions out, and then shoots their Khans dead. The Cobras and Adders would agree that his act was legal (not being in the real council chamber) and was simply clever and bold, as it was with Angus Labov. In orbit, Cobra ASFs are standing by to eliminate the Scorpions' ships before they can get the warning out. The Vipers have the lifetime achievement award in the field of self-righteous hypocrisy. When they do it, it's right. So why not do it?

It's not a terrible plan, but on hearing it, the Cobra and Adder Khans share a look. This is the moment. With but a few tweaks, the fury can be redirected right back onto the Vipers, who have long since outlived their usefulness.


You know, that's actually better than what I envisioned in my head. Kudos to you!
Eh.

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #984 on: 05 January 2015, 19:05:32 »
And it is already no easy feat to try and piece together what might have transpired to set everything up for the way it all toppled down.  Let alone trying to imagine the setup to a scene that out-bolds the author in his own opinion of how the whole thing went down.  Good job, Wellspring. 

I've argued with a few people around various communities here that wondered rather vociferously why Andrews didn't immediately shoot Hannibal Banacek as soon as he started to speak up.  My response was that Andrews obviously was not expecting any of what took place.  Normally, Andrews does nothing without brooding and scheming and plotting for a long time beforehand.  N'Buta took Andrews out of his element in that way, away from the safety of his own plots.  Obviously, Andrews was not as good outside of a Circle of Equals as he was in one, when he was forced to react.

And he was out of his element in another way with being in a relatively small conference room aboard the McKenna's Pride where he was suddenly within the reach of an angry Elemental who decided that this was an appropriate time to eschew Grand Council protocol as well.
« Last Edit: 05 January 2015, 21:14:26 by rebs »
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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #985 on: 05 January 2015, 21:06:20 »
He was not better in a circle of equals than N'buta... well we don't know cuz he shot him instead of fought him.

I'd like to see N'buta's Night Gyr versus Andrew's Black Python... that'd be a fun fight.
And good excuse to get stats on both mechs  ;)


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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #986 on: 05 January 2015, 21:12:13 »
He was not better in a circle of equals than N'buta... well we don't know cuz he shot him instead of fought him.

I'd like to see N'buta's Night Gyr versus Andrew's Black Python... that'd be a fun fight.
And good excuse to get stats on both mechs  ;)

Andrew's Black Python was a vanilla one, because VIPER PRIDE.  Mostly, it was just fueled by sheer hatred.  Kind of like Darth Vader.  Or my the first cat I ever owned.
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cold1

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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #987 on: 05 January 2015, 21:24:31 »
Andrew's Black Python was a vanilla one, because VIPER PRIDE.  Mostly, it was just fueled by sheer hatred.  Kind of like Darth Vader.  Or every cat anyone ever owned.

Fixed that last bit for you...

Nah, I don't want a vanilla Mech for Andrews, I want dude to have a tricked out custom laser boat.
And I want N'buta's Night Gyr to be a super charged, rotary AC spinning, PPC blasting, mech smashing beast... but that's just me


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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #988 on: 05 January 2015, 21:28:33 »
Fixed that last bit for you...

Nah, I don't want a vanilla Mech for Andrews, I want dude to have a tricked out custom laser boat.
And I want N'buta's Night Gyr to be a super charged, rotary AC spinning, PPC blasting, mech smashing beast... but that's just me

As not-a-duly-appointed-authority-of-any-kind-what-are-you-insane, I am declaring this canon until we hear otherwise.
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Re: Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder
« Reply #989 on: 05 January 2015, 21:32:44 »
As not-a-duly-appointed-authority-of-any-kind-what-are-you-insane, I am declaring this canon until we hear otherwise.

Unfortunately, Ben was just here and he only stops by this thread once a year, HAPPY 2015 GHOSTBEAR!  ;D

Also, I've got no where near the street cred to design a canon mech


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