Coils of the Adder: Home of Clan Star Adder

[Gaiiten]

IMHO we have to consider not only the Adders but the other Home Clans too.
Given WoR Supplemental the Adders have been very careful to integrate the other Clans in their plans (as to the invasion of the Hanseatic League).

[cold1]

IMHO we have to consider not only the Adders but the other Home Clans too.
Given WoR Supplemental the Adders have been very careful to integrate the other Clans in their plans (as to the invasion of the Hanseatic League).

The Adders interpretation of Kerenskys vision has always been fluffed as the clans uniting to retake Terra(now we know they just need to be leading that movement).  The pragmatic Snakes may want a combined homeworld invasion of the Hansa to prove out whether the clans can work together and show the other clans what can be done.

They need a Klondike like event where they work together to help with clan unity.  I think we will see that.  Then see them learning to convert Hansa citizens to clan life for a couple generations as preparation to holding IS planets. Finally somewhere around the 3180's I think we'll be back in the Sphere and I almost think you may see the grand council offer up a spot to an IS clan or two (non-Mongol Horses would be good).

[Andrew Truscott]

Hello Everyone, new Star Adder here.

To be fair to the Homeworld Clans, they ALL received a major beating as of the WoR.  The fact that Star Adders came out "on top" doesn't represent the damage they also suffered.

As for meeting up with the IS clans, I am fairly confident that without the Steel Vipers, the whole "You are tainted" hard-line will soften once any invasion actually begins.  They just needed to be extremely firm during the rebuilding phase lest seeds of the taint show up.

[Nightsky]

To be fair to the Homeworld Clans, they ALL received a major beating as of the WoR.  The fact that Star Adders came out "on top" doesn't represent the damage they also suffered.

It seemed to me from WoR that while on paper they kept nearly all their units, many were hugely understrength. I think the Adders must have lost at least a third of their Touman.

As for meeting up with the IS clans, I am fairly confident that without the Steel Vipers, the whole "You are tainted" hard-line will soften once any invasion actually begins.  They just needed to be extremely firm during the rebuilding phase lest seeds of the taint show up.

Hmm. In the long run, I think the 'taint' concept would fade after an invasion, just like all the IS Clans changed over time. I wouldn't expect it to happen quickly though. After all, the Aggressor faction was born among the Adders well after the Vipers had been Annihilated.

[cold1]

Yeah about a third but with all the holdings, manufacturing, and legacies they now posses it will not take long to fill out those units.  And rebuild old ones... can we get a new 5th Assault please?   :'(

[Gaiiten]

It seemed to me from WoR that while on paper they kept nearly all their units, many were hugely understrength. I think the Adders must have lost at least a third of their Touman.

More than 50% fits better.

They need a Klondike like event where they work together to help with clan unity.  I think we will see that. 

Given that due how Klondike was being executed most of the Clans internal quarrels have begun, I would rather see a more different, really uniting operation of the Adders and other HomeClans.

Besides the units of each Clan I would like to see a real battle unit comprised of members of Clans.
Somewhat like an *Ebon Keshik* Guards cluster (or even galaxy). So a new common identity could being instilled.

[Wotan]

The remaining homeworld clans are all known for different specialities. So a combined arms were every clan can fill a different role is most likely. At least this would be the best scenario i can see.

[cold1]

The remaining homeworld clans are all known for different specialities. So a combined arms were every clan can fill a different role is most likely. At least this would be the best scenario i can see.

Wait what are the Adder specialties?  Other than lots of big mechs that move well and lots of little mechs with lots of big guns that don't move so well.

[Wotan]

Strategy and leadership ?  ;)

[Nightsky]

Wait what are the Adder specialties?

Traditionally, heavier mech forces than average. Their forces are hard-hitting and resilient, if plodding. Former Burrock formations used Burrock-like quick strike tactics with lighter machines but I don't know how far that has spread in today's Clan Star Adder; the ex-Burrock warriors were always a minority and the Adders had some trouble integrating their tactical styles anyway.

The Adders also tend to be more cautious and thorough than most other Clans. Intel, logistics, careful planning, sensible bidding - all the kind of stuff that would make the typical Smoke Jaguar's eyes glaze over.

[cold1]

Strategy and leadership ?  ;)

Yeah I assumed you meant one of the faction A uses equipment X stereotypes we normally get.  But yes I like that the Adders are the clan that uses their touman like an actual military.

The comparison to tbe Jags is funny because they really do use the same kinds of equipment but the Adders actually plan well before hand.

[Gaiiten]

Nevertheless, I would like the Adders have such a military R & D as the Jaguars had.

[Wotan]

Yeah I assumed you meant one of the faction A uses equipment X stereotypes we normally get.  But yes I like that the Adders are the clan that uses their touman like an actual military.

When i look to the remaining homeworld clans i see
Cloud Cobras - having excellent ASF pilots and a good Protomech arm, but aditionally lacking heavy ground forces
Coyote - tendency to heavy and assault mechs, but lacking naval power incl. ASF
Stone Lion - continuing a tradition for tanks, BAs and combined arms, but missing naval power and mechs.
Star Adder - beside having the largest fleet and ground force, focusing on heavy mechs, but don't prefer ASF and BAs in a way other clans do.

So i see the Adders as Generals of a combined army (very SLDF like) with the mech forces build up by Coyote and Adders, the ASF by the Cobras and the tanks and infantry by Lions and in case of Protos also Cobras. Naval escort is given by the Adders, too.

Such a force of specialists working together would be very impressive for any after-Jihas-IS-force. But I don't believe the clans will ever work together that way. :(

[Gaiiten]

But I don't believe the clans will ever work together that way. :(

You must think positively  :)

[cold1]

Just had a thought while slacking at work.  You can fit 2 heavy larges and 2 ERPPCs on a Gargoyle with some room to spare.

Time to make an Adder'd out config.  It's a bracket baby but standing off with dual ppcs or moving 8 and closing with HLL's is well, sounding like fun.
 

[ABADDON]

Hm, I dunno. What's the point of using HLL when you have ER PPCs at your disposal?

[Pa Weasley]

Three reasons:
1. Fluff for a Star Adder 'mech.
2. Heavy large lasers are a real man's weapon.  :D
3. Under kill is overrated.

[cold1]

Hm, I dunno. What's the point of using HLL when you have ER PPCs at your disposal?

Cuz I am Star Adder, thus I should
Cuz it fits on the chasis, thus I can
Cuz its ridiculous overkill, thus I must

You could ask the same about the Blood Asp A which is a monster

Pratically the Gargoyle A makes the most sense.  Or a custom with a PPC and streak 6 in each arm. 

I am a big fan of paired PPCs and Streak 6s because they flat out work well but this just seemed so over the top Adder that it had to be done.

[ABADDON]

Yeah, I know, I'm supposed to like em. But when you already have ER PPCs as big hole punchers, I just don't see the point of adding two more hole punchers with even more heat and lower range. Rather take something to fill those big holes (ok, my choice of words seems rather ambigous at this point  #P) those PPCs punched into someone's armor.

[cold1]

Heavy lasers really aren't that great in a world of no minimum range.  But they are fun.  The clan ERPPC is a thing of beauty, its low drag high speed surgical killing power.  The heavy large laser is more like a big rock; you smash stuff with it.  It ain't accurate, it ain't sexy, and it certainly is not the best choice.  But when you have a pair of them... its pure HULK SMASH all day long.

I just have visions of other clan warriors seeing the two HLLs in the other arm of a Gargoyle charging and blasting at them with twin PPC's already.  And thinking "Was that weapons load really necessary?  What was that guy thin... yikes he's getting close. REVERSE!!!" }:)

(Just realized I have a Warhawk H arm and Gargoyle A PPC arm and an extra Gargoyle mini not assembled)  ^-^

[Andrew Truscott]

The way an Adder lead invasion would work would have invasion corridors like before, but each Clan would be charged with specific goals in the subjugation of the IS.  Only once they reach the area that would be just outside the 3130 Prefecture X of the republic would they then open it up to being a crazy "race for Terra".  That way, the coreward IS would largely be pacified without absurd rivalries setting people back while still maintaining the independence of each clan.  That said, the Adders didn't even get an invasion slot, let alone leadership of revival, so who knows what it would be like in 3150 if it happens.

Not sure how an invasion of the HW clans would work since they would just never have the numbers.  They'd probably path in through the Draconis Combine and cherry pick key worlds?

As for the whole heavy lasers thing, as of 3058 they were just a prototype for a revitalized weapons program.  They whole overkill thing made their feel very appealing to the hardliner crusaders that existed in the large but invasion-less Adders.  Overall, I think the amount of HLLs in the total Clan Toumans are exaggerated.  The ER PPC is definitely the favored weapon of the Clans.

[ABADDON]

Speaking of which... do we actually have manufacturing sites that are known to produce improved Large lasers?
I mean, even the dezgra Inner Sphere Jade Falcons produce their own now. I guess it would have spread to us as well?

And while we're at it: +1 on your dice or gauss like exploding weapon - what do you prefer?

Personally, I would go iLL ovber LL any day.

[cold1]

Speaking of which... do we actually have manufacturing sites that are known to produce improved Large lasers?
I mean, even the dezgra Inner Sphere Jade Falcons produce their own now. I guess it would have spread to us as well?

And while we're at it: +1 on your dice or gauss like exploding weapon - what do you prefer?

Personally, I would go iLL ovber LL any day.

I assume after 3085 all heavy lasers and ATMs are tbe improved versions until CGL tells me otherwise.
I would rather the risk than the penalty.  Suddenly all those heavy laser + tarcomp configs of omnimechs become extra lethal.   Or you can drop the tarcomp.  i.e. Blood Asp A improve the heavies and it is even meaner or drop the tarcomp for more sinks and its better still.

[Andrew Truscott]

And while we're at it: +1 on your dice or gauss like exploding weapon - what do you prefer?

This has not stopped anyone from using gauss weapons nor has it stopped people from using, say, ammo.  ;)  a small weapon pop is hardly as bad as getting your machine gun ammo hit and you take 100 damage in one location.

[Nerroth]

I was looking back to the info in WoR:S regarding the 3088 Star Adder campaign in Hansa space, after going over the data on the League shown in Objectives: Periphery and Field Report: Periphery; and it occurred to me that the kind of slash-and-burn attitude which the Clan has towards the Inner Sphere (and the Council of Six Clans) post-Reaving may not be quite so evident when dealing with the Deep Periphery.

For example, it's noted that the RDF made two separate (failed) attempts to counter-attack the Adder occupation forces involved. But given the kind of naval forces the Adder fleet has to hand, would it simply be a case of the Clan keeping the Hansa JumpShips at bay (or blowing up any that get too close to one of the target worlds), or were the Adders actually allowing the RDF to land their troops first?

Given how widespread the standard RDF deployments would have been prior to the incursion (with the closest RDF garrison more than two jumps away from any of the four target systems), is it likely that the Adders are actually letting the Hansa ground forces try and fight; if only to give their own surface assets some live-fire combat experience? If so, it would seem that, be it out of principle or pragmatism, the Adders as of 3090 are still willing to treat the Hansa less harshly than they would other non-Clan opponents by this time.


Actually, in the long run, I wonder if their picking only four worlds to go for at a time was part of the point. Maybe they aren't in any particular hurry to conquer the Hansa outright; it could be that they recognise the need to burn off some of their warriors' more aggressive tendencies, without risking the increased exposure of a premature assault against the Inner Sphere or near Periphery.

To take an example from pre-Columbian Mesoamerica, the Aztec Empire had at least one enemy city (Tlaxcala) which they made a point not to conquer outright; instead, by leaving it unoccupied, they could raid it for captives (and would-be sacrifices) on a regular basis, blooding each new generation of warriors in the process. (There were other enemies, like the Tarascans, who were large enough to block Aztec expansion in their own right; but the Tlaxcalans had no such ability.) Of course, when a group of Spaniards managed to recruit the disgruntled Tlaxcalans to their own cause, things didn't work out quite so well for the Aztecs.

But in the sense that keeping at least a portion of the League alive (as a live-fire "training opponent") might be a way to help keep future Adder generations experienced against "Inner Sphere" tactics, would it be something that the Adders might just consider doing; or would the pressure in the Council from the other three Homeworld Clans mean that keeping at least part of the Hansa alive, even for such a purpose, would be politically unfeasible?

[cold1]

Yeah pretty much.  Remember the Inner Sphere is tainted.  The deep periphery is not.  The Hansa has some world worth taking so eventually the Adders are going to swallow it.  I hope the nex time we see the homeclans they have swallowed a quarter of the periphery map.

[Stormlion1]

Or they could be treating the Hansa as a training ground to blood troops against someone other than Clan troops. Now where have I seen the Adders doing that before...

[cold1]

Or they could be treating the Hansa as a training ground to blood troops against someone other than Clan troops. Now where have I seen the Adders doing that before...

Yup.  Only problem is the Hansa ground forces are kind of weak.

There is not really a better option to blood troops at the moment though.

[ABADDON]

Or they could be treating the Hansa as a training ground to blood troops against someone other than Clan troops. Now where have I seen the Adders doing that before...

Though the Hansa will probably indeed be absorbed occupied and not outright annihilated. ;)

I'm wondering in how far the Adders will let the other Clans participate in their ventures in Hansa space. I guess the Adders will use the Scorpions as the fall guy to unite the Clans at a later point (similar to Klondike in a way).

[wellspring]

Though the Hansa will probably indeed be absorbed occupied and not outright annihilated. ;)

I'm wondering in how far the Adders will let the other Clans participate in their ventures in Hansa space. I guess the Adders will use the Scorpions as the fall guy to unite the Clans at a later point (similar to Klondike in a way).

Another consideration. Think about how long it took for the Cobras/Burrocks to assimilate the Tanite worlds-- a process that still wasn't complete as of the WoR. The IS clans had to largely abandon the clan way for the lower castes on the worlds they took-- which lead eventually to the Taint.

Maybe the Adders are taking it slow. Grab a few worlds, garrison them heavily, assimilate them to the Clan Way. Don't spread out too thin, watch for a reaction. When they're fully digested, grab a few more worlds. The Hansa have no allies, their military isn't a match for even a single Clan, let alone the Adders. They can only helplessly watch and wait as the coils tighten and their empire is slowly, methodically consumed.

The Kerensky cluster is a collection of marginal-to-awful planets in the rear end of nowhere. Post-reaving, they're now afflicted with plague and radiation to boot. The invading clans were plagued by poor supply lines in the deep periphery, and administrating an OZ 1200 LY from their main population centers didn't work for any of the invading clans in the end.

Taking the Hansa more than doubles your resources, moves your center of gravity towards the IS, and secures your logistical lines. What's not to love? Meanwhile the Scorpions do the heavy lifting in Nueva Castille; once they're done the Adders can always move in and supplant them later to finish the job.

There's an old story of Napoleon and one of his lieutenants strolling down an eastward road out of Paris. Napoleon ordered him to plant trees along the road so his troops could march in the shade. "But sir," the young officer protested, "the trees won't be tall enough to shade anyone for twenty years or more."

To which Napoleon replied, "Which is why we need to plant them immediately."

There's something very Star Adder about this sentiment.