Battletech Beatdowns in Northern VA

[Daryk]

Quarter tons aren't so bad, and the Paramedic gear and ER Micro Lasers weigh that much exactly...  I can understand not wanting to argue individual points of armor, though...

[Jester006]

I'm mostly limiting the tonnage allocations to a minimum of half tons to represent some of the inefficiencies that exist in the IS.  If/when you guys come across a culture of people with advanced tech that know how to squeeze every amount available space out of a mech, we can revisit this discussion.

[Tinyozora]

Reminder that the scorpion is claimed already so it would have to take the place of the Vulcan or hunchback to get that TAC mech in, though I could always redesign my own shadow hawk if that's what's wanted.

[Jester006]

So I've been having a hard time going to sleep and decided to make different lists for the OPFOR next game.

You all dont think 20 Saladins is too much do ya?

[Daryk]

Ok, TWO TACs!  :D

[Daryk]

OK, a number of PMs were flying back and forth while I was at work today (no rest for the wicked and all that).  The below is all my opinion and absolutely subject to debate by any and all involved.

In my opinion, we need a few things in the company to ensure we are fully mission capable.  These are:

At least one head capping weapon (and I'm even willing to give up my beloved Blazer Cannon if we have another one).
At least one sniping weapon (preferably an AC/2 for maximum range, but I could be talked into an ER PPC).
At least one AOE weapon (a Thumper Artillery Cannon being the lightest one available).
A Cavalry (5/8/5) lance.
A Recon lance (at least 6/9/6).
A solid base of fire at whatever speed (though 3/5/3 is the preferred minimum).
An Active Probe capability (currently filled by the Ostscout's Improved Sensors quirk).

Nice to haves include:
If everything is jump capable, we don't need jump packs ever.
More energy weapons means less ammunition to buy,
An initiative bonus would be nice, but Jester has already said that will involve a difficult repair roll.
ECM capability would be nice, but seems to only be available via Raven at this time.

EDIT: Got distracted and forgot to add:
Indirect fire ability is absolutely nice, but requires a lot of tubes to be worthwhile, and LRM ammo is EXPENSIVE!

[Tinyozora]

1. At least one head capping weapon (and I'm even willing to give up my beloved Blazer Cannon if we have another one).
2. At least one sniping weapon (preferably an AC/2 for maximum range, but I could be talked into an ER PPC).
3. At least one AOE weapon (a Thumper Artillery Cannon being the lightest one available).
4. A Cavalry (5/8/5) lance.
5. A Recon lance (at least 6/9/6).
6. A solid base of fire at whatever speed (though 3/5/3 is the preferred minimum).
7. An Active Probe capability (currently filled by the Ostscout's Improved Sensors quirk).

Nice to haves include:
8. If everything is jump capable, we don't need jump packs ever.
9. More energy weapons means less ammunition to buy,
10. An initiative bonus would be nice, but Jester has already said that will involve a difficult repair roll.
11. ECM capability would be nice, but seems to only be available via Raven at this time.
12. Indirect fire ability is absolutely nice, but requires a lot of tubes to be worthwhile, and LRM ammo is EXPENSIVE!

1,2,4,5 (mostly),6,7 are all covered.
The WHM-7A already has 2x ERPPC covering #2. The Scorpion based upon Aaron's desires will probably end up being 5/8/5, but that's fine. 
We've also whipped up a Vulcan design that could be a better heavy scout along with the Phawk though it'll need that last point to get lvl 2 tech and then a decision to be standard or XL (6/9/6 vs 7/11/7).  Given the design's and also the quirk of the vulcan, it may well be fine to have an XL engine on a long range sniper/recon.

That just leaves the AOE weapon, I can just redesign the SHD to cover it. 
Jester, does the TAC count as level 2 or level 1 tech?  It was introduced in 3012.  If so, it's easily designed in lvl 1 and saves us a point for other use.

Code: [Select]

Vulcan Recon/Sniper

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-D
Production Year: 3050
Dry Cost: 7,469,933 C-Bills
Total Cost: 7,469,933 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,338

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  Medium Pulse Laser
    2  Small Pulse Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    67 points                2.00
    Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 CT, 4 LT, 2 RT, 4 LA, 2 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             280                       8.00
    Walking MP: 7
    Running MP: 11
    Jumping MP: 7 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL                       3.50
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 134                  8.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     12           17       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     10           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     10           19       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RT        15        3         7.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LT        4         1         2.00
Small Pulse Laser                            RA        2         1         1.00
Small Pulse Laser                            LA        2         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 16

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 13
7j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Code: [Select]

Shadow Hawk SHD-2Hb2

Mass: 55 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-F-E-D
Production Year: 3050
Dry Cost: 4,873,407 C-Bills
Total Cost: 4,913,407 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,098

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 275 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  Medium Lasers
    1  LRM-5
    1  Thumper Art. Cannon
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      91 points                5.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                275                      15.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     18           23       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     13           19       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     9            14       
                                             L/R Leg     13           19       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-5                                        HD        2         1         2.00
Thumper Art. Cannon                          LT        5         7        10.00
Medium Laser                                 RA        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 LA        3         1         1.00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
@Thumper Cannon (20)                         LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 30

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 11
5j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: ARTTC, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA



[Daryk]

19 points of armor hurts my eyes!  :P

[Tinyozora]

I didnt customize or move the armor.  That's just aitoplacement.this is for concept

[Daryk]

As long as we fix it before it hits the table, all is good...

I just checked, and while I think it was a typo, you're right about an Orion being able to carry an LTAC...

[Daryk]

Playing around in SSW, I see a TAC could get an Orion to jump...

[Tinyozora]

Code: [Select]

   
 orion 
 3025 IS Heavy

Original:  https://battletech.rpg.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=10000002

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: orion 
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 4, Experimental design

Mass: 75 tons
Chassis:
Power Plant: 300 Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Running Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 4 Standard Jump Jet
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type:  Standard
Armament:
 1 Medium Laser
 1 Medium Laser
 1 SRM 6
 1 Long Tom Cannon
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  orion 
Mass: 75 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.: 114 pts Endo Steel            14      4.00
 (2 CT,1 HD,2 LA,6 LT,3 RA)
Engine:        300 Fusion                    6     19.00
   Walking MP:   4
   Running MP:   6
   Jumping MP:   4
Heat Sinks:     10 Double [20]               0      0.00
Gyro:                                        4      3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3.00
L: Sh+UA+LA+H    R: Sh+UA+LA+H               8      0.00
Armor Factor:  208 Standard                  0     13.00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9
   Center Torso:             23         32
   Center Torso (Rear):                 14
   L/R Side Torso:           16      23/22
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              5/5
   L/R Arm:                  12      21/21
   L/R Leg:                  16      28/28
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Medium Laser           LA       3           1      1.00
1 Medium Laser           RA       3           1      1.00
1 SRM 6                  LT       4   15      3      4.00
   (Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 Long Tom Cannon        RT      20   15     18     23.00
   (Ammo Locations: 3 LT)
4 Standard Jump Jets:    -        0           4      4.00
   (Jump Jet Loc: 2 LL,2 RL)
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          30           4     33.00
Crits and Tons Left:                          6             
 
Calculated Factors
Total Cost:        7,694,750 C-Bill
Battle Value (BV1):1456
Battle Value (BV2):1678 

[Daryk]

Nice... I could live with a smaller SRM for a bit more armor, but the LTAC is sweet!

Also, before I forget, other things I think the Battalion needs:

A full company of infantry (to provide the required AsTech pool).
A lance or two of infantry transports (a mix of Heavy and regular APCs, or IFVs like the Goblin).
A lance or so of support vehicles (MASH, HQ, Recovery/Repair vehicles).

Campaign Ops and Strat Ops will dictate 12 'mech techs, probably 12 vehicle techs, arguably 1 infantry tech, one medical team, and about 10 more admin types (this is where I advocate for a lawyer).

[Space Cat]

Here's another version of the Vulcan. I think this version fills both the sniper role while keeping the anti-infantry capability of the original.

Vulcan VL-2T

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Advanced Rules
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-F-E-A
Production Year: 2777
Cost: 7,488,133 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,283

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 75.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 118.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
    1  ER PPC
    1  Medium Laser
    2  Flamers
    1  Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    67 points                2.00
    Internal Locations: 3 RT, 5 LA, 4 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             280                       8.00
    Walking MP: 7
    Running MP: 11
    Jumping MP: 7 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL                       3.50
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 128                  8.00
    CASE Locations: 1 RT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     12           19       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     10           16       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     10           16       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Machine Gun                                  RT        0         1         0.50
ER PPC                                       LT        15        3         7.00
Medium Laser                                 LT        3         1         1.00
Flamer                                       RA        3         1         1.00
Flamer                                       LA        3         1         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              RT        -         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 13

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 13
7j         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

[Daryk]

Two flamers AND a machine gun is a LOT of anti-infantry capability...  :o

[Tinyozora]

Killing infantry isnt high on my list of things to do so I'd prefer the SPL, plus no ammo is always better.  The SPL also have that sweet -2 to hit when it jumps 7 into someone's butt.  1mpl and 2spl is pretty good to rack a back.

[Daryk]

True that... Pulse Lasers are helpful in multiple ways...

[Tinyozora]

Space Cat, if you want to take the HBK or Orion we're designing, I'll take the Vulcan.  It's more my preferred style of play than a Artillery Cannon.

[Space Cat]

What role is the Orion currently filling? Just a slugger? Now I've got visions of dancing Vulcans in my head, galloping too and fro and delivering justice from a distance.

[Tinyozora]

With a Long Tom Artillery Cannon, delivering great justice out to 20 hexes.

[Daryk]

20 points of great justice, no less...  ^-^

[Space Cat]

That's a lot of justice.

[Daryk]

AND at 20 hex range too...  >:D

[Daryk]

Hmmm... I see we moved the Hunchback into the Cavalry lance... I'm thinking we should go with the Shatter Hawk in that case, to keep the lance's overall speed up.

[Tinyozora]

Done though I'm not convinced it's entirely better than the HBK.

[Daryk]

It's certainly not on an individual basis, but it avoids slowing that lance down to 4/6, which I think outweighs that consideration.

[Space Cat]

AND at 20 hex range too...  >:D

I think you've sold me on the long range Great Justice Distribution. Distributing Great Justice from many hexes away with vengeance.

[Daryk]

Cool... if you take the Orion, we can figure out another 6/9/6 mover for the Recon Lance...  :)

[Daryk]

And speaking of the Orion, here's a version with a smaller SRM for more armor and CASE (and HANDS, because we can):

Code: [Select]

Orion-LTAC

Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3025
Dry Cost: 7,686,000 C-Bills
Total Cost: 7,773,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,778

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
    1  Long Tom Art. Cannon
    2  Medium Lasers
    1  SRM-2
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   114 points                4.00
    Internal Locations: 3 LT, 4 LA, 5 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL                                   4.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 231                 14.50
    CASE Locations: 1 LT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     23           35       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  11       
                                           L/R Torso     16           24       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  8         
                                             L/R Arm     12           24       
                                             L/R Leg     16           32       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser                                 LA        3         1         1.00
Long Tom Art. Cannon                         RT/RA     20        12/3     20.00
SRM-2                                        LT        2         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 HD        3         1         1.00
@Long Tom Cannon (15)                        LT        -         3         3.00
@SRM-2 (50)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 6

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      8    Points: 18
4j         2       3       2       0      3     1   Structure:  6
Special Abilities: ARTLTC, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

[Daryk]

I added some notes to the spreadsheet for anyone checking...