Author Topic: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors  (Read 13587 times)

Sjhernan3060

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As we know typical clan warrior burns bright and hopefully dies young. I am curious what we think the usual medical issues in the short and then long term would warriors expect to have?

My thoughts:

Dental issues? Stomping around in a big metal can and or being punched in mouth in a trial must result in wear and tear on the pearly whites...

Addiction issues? I have no source for this but I would guess in the clans that up to a point performance enhancers  to boost muscle mass reaction times and painkillers would be tolerated to get a W. I know the hellion civil war started over the use of performance enhancing drugs so I don’t know what the clans current “ wellness” policy is...

Long term:

Joint damage: again I don’t know if clan breeding or medtech  has overcome this but a warriors decades of heavy weight training and combat injuries should lead to joint issues..

marauder648

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #1 on: 11 March 2019, 10:37:32 »
Addiction issues

Necrosia has been pretty much the only addictive drug thats been explicitly mentioned in Clan space and its pretty unique to the Scorpions.  The only other thing is the drugs used with EI to keep the degredation caused by that at bay are apparently hella addictive (probably super-space Morphine or something)

Dental issues can probably be fixed very quickly, but might be seen as an unneccssary vanity.

Long term.  Really in 9/10 cases, its not an 'issue' so to speak, considering that they go through Warriors at a horrifying rate and in your 30's you're 'over the hill' for most Clans and Solhama or dead.
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grimlock1

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #2 on: 11 March 2019, 11:36:25 »
I have to imagine various addictions are rampant among the Clans.  They are a society of traumatized child soldiers, with little or no emotional support or outlet.  With no psychiatric care, they would be self medicating left, right and sideways.  But as long as you can sober up before the trial starts and pull off a victory, nobody cares.

Pain meds are particularly susceptible for abuse, even if they are fancy non-habit forming space drugs. The push to get back in the action after an injury means patients are likely to take a fist full of advil and go back too soon. That means re-injury. Assuming this isn't Star Trek Magi-medicine, there well be side effects and counter-indications. Those may require more drugs to manage. Tylenol, for example, has some rather nasty effects on the liver and the dosage is something like less than double the recommended levels.  I'm not suggesting liver issues in particular but illustrating a knock-on effect.

Depending on how you want to fluff the Elemental BA requiring a pilot of elemental size, that could lead vascular or musculo-skeletal  problems. The using the suit results in wide spread bruising, you could see vascular problems.  The same groups of capillaries are ruptured over and over and over again, leading to formation of scar tissue.  Elementals might take anti-coagulants to prevent a clot from all that bruising from going some place bad. Which in turn can lead to issues treating wounds, requiring the application of additional coagulants.  Years spent fighting in/against a BA suit would probably do some damage to the muscles and ligaments.

Aero pilots are described as very thin and sometimes frail.  If the Scientists went a step beyond and intentionally reduced bone density, then they would be at higher risk of bone fracture. The oversize head, combined with slender builds could lead to chronic neck and shoulder issues.

The bouncing of a mech must be brutal on the pilot's spine, unless there is special damping in the cockpit or just the command couch.
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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #3 on: 11 March 2019, 12:08:24 »
they all have to have horrible back issues

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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #4 on: 11 March 2019, 12:22:49 »
A few more follow ups: do warriors have annual physicals? Is that tied into their annual testing?

glitterboy2098

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #5 on: 11 March 2019, 12:46:33 »
A few more follow ups: do warriors have annual physicals? Is that tied into their annual testing?
i would assume yes, given that they are a military and every semi-functional organized military will have annual checkups. this si especially true given the whole Codex thing.. they'd have to prove their physical fitness regularly. including most likely genetic health tests. fail the physical side and you would likely be quickly moved to a solhama or out of the warrior caste entirely. (i would assume that more borderline cases would just be taken off active duty until they get back into shape) fail the genetic side and your chances of your genes being used in future sibko's become Nil, might even prevent you from getting a chance to gain a bloodname. obviously would depend on the nature of the damage of course. radiation or chemical induced damage probably can be worked around using samples taken earlier in the warrior's career, assuming that their career warranted such special measures. mutations/conditions popping up because the scientists missed a sequence or several otherwise harmless traits combined to create a vulnerability probably would tank your chances entirely.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #6 on: 11 March 2019, 12:58:24 »
What about mental health issues like: anexity, pyschosis or paranoia?

I would think a life time of having to watch your back From internal and external threats would not make for a calm mind...

However the brutally of the sibko system would likely weed out those with out the mental strength?

glitterboy2098

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #7 on: 11 March 2019, 13:20:01 »
given the number of times the question of sanity comes up in the clan centric novels, i would assume that they are tested for mental health as well. but that the clans would have a rather different set of criteria as to what constitutes a healthy mind. it is likely that a certain degree of mania, obsession, violent tendencies, psychopathy/sociopathy etc would be considered perfectly fine for a warrior. given the number of totally wacko clan characters that have appeared in the fiction, it would seem that the higher your position in the clan hierarchy, the easier it is to get your insanity covered up or overlooked. especially if said condition resulted in you being a more effective or brutal warrior within the clan system. Khan Malavai Fletcher for example was quite unhinged, particularly in his obsession regarding the Ghost Bears, and his clan knew he was nuts, but they seem to have viewed him more as a weapon to be unleashed than an existential threat to the clan.. at least until his obsession resulted in extensive damage to the Hell's Horses.

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #8 on: 11 March 2019, 14:27:00 »
I could imagine obesity to be rampant amongst test downs. When athletes or dancers retire their enforced diets are dropped and they tend to balloon.

Likewise many diets intended to keep a person at their peak are not great when extended over decades.

grimlock1

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #9 on: 11 March 2019, 16:06:27 »
What about mental health issues like: anexity, pyschosis or paranoia?

I would think a life time of having to watch your back From internal and external threats would not make for a calm mind...

However the brutally of the sibko system would likely weed out those with out the mental strength?
Just because someone makes it through a traumatic and stressful program and has passing scores on the exam doesn't mean they are healthy or stable. How often is the titular scene from Full Metal Jacket played out in those sibkos?
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #10 on: 11 March 2019, 22:33:06 »
I could imagine obesity to be rampant amongst test downs. When athletes or dancers retire their enforced diets are dropped and they tend to balloon.

Likewise many diets intended to keep a person at their peak are not great when extended over decades.
they might go a bit chubbier due to potentially less exercise but you have to figure that the clan eugenics program filtered out the genetic predisposition to obesity pretty quick. and the non-warriors tend to live with relatively minimal resources made available to them, so i suspect there aren't all that many sibko washouts that gain tons of weight.

Colt Ward

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #11 on: 12 March 2019, 13:33:16 »
Clan mechwarriors will face more combat related problems than the average IS warrior because the operational tempo is much higher, even for secondline and garrison troops.  Merc troops would probably be closest to a Clan warrior's op tempo.

First off would be broken bones IMO.  Between un-augmented Trials where a superior officer breaks a bone to teach a lesson (Rikkard vs Janis) and injuries from combat (pilot damage in novels is sometimes broken ribs from being thrown to restraints) its hard to believe Clan warriors would not have a broken bone or two in their career.  Bone breaks are also more likely IMO to occur during the sibko days as prospective warriors train for tasks- either falling off something on a obstacle course, executing a attack wrong during hand to hand training, or live fire mech training.

Second would be spinal injuries- see the offtopic airplane topic a page or two from current for the discussion of ejection seat issues.  Being kicked out of a mech (or ASF) by rockets is instant compression of the spine (and you will have complications if not straight backed!) then landing from a parachute will also cause jolts to the spine even if they are awake/conscious at the time.  You can check injuries to paratroopers to see what happens, since it also damages the knees and ankles.

Third would be radiation effects- from the fusion engines (suffering a Grayson), from damaged weapons (shielding on PPCs & heavy lasers), from dropship thrusters in LZs, interstellar travel on JS & DS, and possibly from marginal worlds.  You could get toxic amounts from Depleted Uraniam shells or exposure to other hot items.  Perhaps exposure to hot zones on 1SW & 2 SW afflicted planets (We will take a shortcut through this valley with ruins and cut off the freebirth's retreat!).

Fourth, consider zero-g related health conditions.  Yes the Star League and even the barbaric IS have medications & protocols to mitigate the effects of zero-G but that is not nullification.  So, fluid shifts, cardio problems and bone density loss will still happen compared to someone who never leaves a planet.

Finally, look at the traveller problems.  Allergies, congestion, 'mountain sickness' and other problems people encounter by constantly and rapidly changing locations.  Heck, I wonder if there would be a 'gravity' sickness for variations- something like sea legs vs land legs.
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pat_hdx

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #12 on: 12 March 2019, 14:26:17 »
Heat stroke is no joke. It can leave you with long term issues.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_stroke

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #13 on: 12 March 2019, 15:56:56 »
Heat stroke is no joke. It can leave you with long term issues.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_stroke

Lol, if they had described the MW Cooling Vest in the early 2000s it would have included a Camelback as a feature.  I know the introduction of them cut down on our heat casualties in a temperate zone drastically.  Its also why they have mandatory water drinking periods.
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SteveRestless

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #14 on: 12 March 2019, 20:21:07 »
Actually, since they've described Clan Mechs as lacking restroom facilities, due to Clan Trials being generally brief affairs, I suspect you'd have to bring your own hydration option in your Omni, since again, the trial's usually over and done with before you really need it. Then REVIVAL happens and everything changes.

Bet you'd see that standard on spheroid rigs though.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #15 on: 12 March 2019, 21:01:35 »
Actually, since they've described Clan Mechs as lacking restroom facilities, due to Clan Trials being generally brief affairs, I suspect you'd have to bring your own hydration option in your Omni, since again, the trial's usually over and done with before you really need it. Then REVIVAL happens and everything changes.

Bet you'd see that standard on spheroid rigs though.

Well, its the future of the 80s . . . which meant canteens would be in vogue.
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rebs

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #16 on: 13 March 2019, 02:00:22 »
Well, its the future of the 80s . . . which meant canteens would be in vogue.

Or those fake binoculars that the eyepieces unscrew so you can drink the contents.

On topic, insanity was said in BoK and Jade Phoenix to be rare among the Clans, yet there are a lot of examples of insane/psychopathic behavior.  Many of the Jags were on the psycho spectrum. 

One of the biggest stories - the Wars of Reaving - happened to be rooted at least in part in Brett Andrews' antisocial and paranoid nature.

Insanity tolerated makes the Clans what they are.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #17 on: 13 March 2019, 03:35:23 »
Becareful of your cultural blinders . . . what seems insane for our current culture and beliefs is not for another.  Do you think you should have someone visit every 4-6 months and let out some blood?
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glitterboy2098

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #18 on: 13 March 2019, 04:05:27 »
Or those fake binoculars that the eyepieces unscrew so you can drink the contents.

On topic, insanity was said in BoK and Jade Phoenix to be rare among the Clans, yet there are a lot of examples of insane/psychopathic behavior.  Many of the Jags were on the psycho spectrum. 

One of the biggest stories - the Wars of Reaving - happened to be rooted at least in part in Brett Andrews' antisocial and paranoid nature.

Insanity tolerated makes the Clans what they are.

as i pointed out, the clan warrior caste probably has a very skewed sense of what "insanity" is compared to the inner sphere.

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #19 on: 13 March 2019, 08:49:38 »
as i pointed out, the clan warrior caste probably has a very skewed sense of what "insanity" is compared to the inner sphere.

Indeed, Malvina Hazen, Lincoln Osis, Malavi Fletcher are all psychopathic to a greater or lesser degree (Malvina's damn near Omnicidal) but no one batted an eyelid at this.
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grimlock1

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #20 on: 13 March 2019, 10:20:06 »
Or those fake binoculars that the eyepieces unscrew so you can drink the contents.

On topic, insanity was said in BoK and Jade Phoenix to be rare among the Clans, yet there are a lot of examples of insane/psychopathic behavior.  Many of the Jags were on the psycho spectrum. 

One of the biggest stories - the Wars of Reaving - happened to be rooted at least in part in Brett Andrews' antisocial and paranoid nature.

Insanity tolerated makes the Clans what they are.
How much of the Jaguars' behavior is attributable to them being raised to be as arrogant, belligerent jerkwads, versus psychological trauma, or traumatic brain injury?

Malvina was always aggressive and violent, but her brother's death pushed her to the point where other Clanners were starting to get nervous.
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rebs

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #21 on: 13 March 2019, 18:15:35 »
as i pointed out, the clan warrior caste probably has a very skewed sense of what "insanity" is compared to the inner sphere.

I know, and I agree. I figure socially the Clans foster certain mental illnesses and they are more easily perpetuated as survival mechanisms.
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grimlock1

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #22 on: 14 March 2019, 08:38:58 »
The RPG rules for various bionics discuss chronic effects from the implants.  Low blood sugar from the body's glucose reserves being used to power the implants leads to headaches or some such.

I want to say it was narrative about Malvina Hazen's choice to go with prosthetics versus having her missing arm and leg regrown, but I'm not sure.  Anyway, the process for regrowing a limb was something like a year, or more, of down time including, physical therapy. Compared with a day of surgery and a few months of therapy for prosthetic, many Clanners opt for the bionics.


Didn't Trent have some kind of implants in his arm?  Myomer grafts and some artificial bones...   Not a full prosthetic, but something.  If there is a tendency to use skeletal implants such as pins, plates, screws, artificial joints, or even full bone replacements, that makes Clanners more susceptible to cold weather. A couple people I've spoken to have noted that their artificial joints tend to get cold. Not in an acute way, mind you, but if you have to hike across a tundra with a knee replacement, maintaining body temperature going to take just a bit more energy.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #23 on: 14 March 2019, 14:41:02 »
This convo sparked a thought: is the warriors codex checked first before providing care? If for example warrior bob and star captain Roberto Alvarez are both wounded badly in action does Roberto:

Get treated first?

Get more resources allocated?

Get more or less recovery time?

Colt Ward

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #24 on: 14 March 2019, 14:55:35 »
You are saying triage is dependent?  or care is dependent?

Care is definitely dependent . . . Paul Moon had his leg budded (aka re-grown) while unblooded Trent got bare prosthetics.  Granted Trent was messed up during Tukkayid so the Jaguar medicos had a LOT on their hands.
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #25 on: 14 March 2019, 15:36:54 »
So would all warriors get first aid the same but then after care is widely different right?

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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #26 on: 14 March 2019, 20:39:45 »
So would all warriors get first aid the same but then after care is widely different right?

Basically, yes.  Bloodnamed warriors would recieve the best care before and after.  Unblooded would recieve lesser care especially after the initial care/triage. 

I hate to think of the level of care freeborn warriors could expect.
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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #27 on: 15 March 2019, 16:06:55 »
Basically, yes.  Bloodnamed warriors would recieve the best care before and after.  Unblooded would recieve lesser care especially after the initial care/triage. 

I hate to think of the level of care freeborn warriors could expect.
Well as long as the doctor's told the bloodname he getting best care he wuld beleive unles he could see different. 8)

I have o wonder how many of these traits the trueborn warriors have were put in/encouraged by the scientist class just to keep them from looking behind the closed doors and project they won't understand but might question.
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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #28 on: 18 March 2019, 07:40:20 »
So far as I understand, the RPG rules say a person neesds a BOD stat of X to safely operate Elemental armor. That corresponds to height and build of the Elemental phenotype.  Does it describe the nature of the injuries if an average sized person uses that armor?

Do later or IS armor developments loosen those restrictions?
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Re: Short and long term chronic medical issues among Warriors
« Reply #29 on: 18 March 2019, 07:56:16 »
I'd assume that with a humanoid IS battle armour you'd still probably need to be at least 6' tall or something.  Elementals, the people, not the suits are HUGE.  Forever Faithful even went to describe some female Elementals as so muscular that it was hard to tell if they were female.  Someone like Andre the Giant would be on the smaller end of the scale for most Elementals. Sure there's differences between certain Clans (the Hellions for example breed their elementals not for bulk but speed and whilst they are as tall, they are not as massive) but they are otherwise pretty damn huge.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/a5/7e/79a57ed5c980c373f5da25d62ceaae7e.jpg

And as a 'banana for scale' the actress who plays Cersi is 5'4 tall, and he'd be a small Elemental as they can get to 8' tall (with them being on average between 7' and 8' tall) and taller still in some cases and these folks are not basketball players either.

This chap here

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/c7/91/20c7910109ee7e8b6843cc35488b174e.jpg

Is 8'3 inches tall, so an average top end Elemental in terms of height at which point you then slap on a HELLA lot of muscle. 

Its why when I had this pic of Lincoln Osis commissioned for my Delranes book



I explained to the artist that he'd be a big feller, linked her the page on Elementals and some of the bits and bobs I could find about them and that was the result.  Elementals are not what one could ever politely call 'small'.

And the suits for these folks, a normal person pretty much couldn't fit in because even if you could get inside the thing and move the legs (you'd probably have the suit's groin section lifting you up so your legs (assuming you're 6' tall) wouldn't even be in an Elemental's footplates, your vision port would be a fair bit above you and you'd be looking at the 'chest' area of the suit, not out the vision port.
I assume that Elemental suits could be altered to fit their users (slot in bits to extend the arms, legs or torso?) but a 6' tall human is not going to be able to use an Elemental suit just because the thing's so damn big.  Even an above average height person (so 6'6 ish or more) would have issues because the suit is just that much bigger than you.

« Last Edit: 18 March 2019, 08:16:49 by marauder648 »
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