Aurigan Reach

[Robroy]

Okay, life is a hundred shades of grey vs. black and white. Helping Kamea was the right-er thing to do.

[Elmoth]

She paid, after all. :P
I see her cause as good-ish (consider she is an undemocratic aristocrat talking eugenics as her reason to rule) compared to the Spoinozas, but she was unfit to rule IMO. The dialogues with her already show she is not that good at it. Being right and capable are 2 different things. And I like that :)

Cheers,
Xavi

[Icerose20]

Kamea can be seen as a younger Hanse.  Both viewed as a protector of their citizens rights and freedoms.

[Kovax]

In a situation with no good answers, you simply chose the one that paid better.  Sometimes, if the bills start to pile up, you choose the one that pays better, even if it's the WRONG answer to the political situation.  That is the harsh reality of the mercenary trade.

[Colt Ward]

I actually like the foreshadowing of the storyline, that its not all a happy ending as your hero rides off into the sunset with the princess on his lap.  Sure the Espinosa family took drastic action, and maybe their bad planning did not make the coup as bloodless as possible.  And yeah, he reached for the iron fist pretty quick but . . . he seemed to be of the opinion that the Reach's society needed to be more regimented and directed to survive- honestly wanting something like a '5 Year Plan' to get it on the track he thought would let it survive.

And he may have been right, since even a civil war did not seem to bring the leaders of the other Houses into working together for the common good rather than contributing to the common good as long as it had their pay-off coming off the top.  The Coalition honestly sounds like a victim of the '3 generation rule' as presented in the narrative.

[Nastyogre]

Kamea is young, idealistic and naive. Weren't we all?

Few rulers in Battletech are good. They are all autocrats, with the possible exception of the FRR's Haakon Magnusson. (They didn't really survive past him)

Even the eternal white hats, Hanse and Victor Davion are ruthless when they need to be and fail as leaders sometimes because they WON'T go to the wall and be ruthless against the real bad guys. Hanse should have absolutely finished off the Capellans in the 4th SW or at least bankrolled Candace Liao to overthrow her sister.

Hanse should have killed Katherine and never should have been so myopic to think that Yvonne could handle the Suns.

Kamea Arano gets as close as we see to a "good guy." She makes some pretty speeches, but you never really know if she means it, or if she says it to rally support. She says she fought for her people but lots of autocrats say, and even believe it.

It's a story. Hopefully the story for the next games are better than the fairly tired tropes used for HBS.


On a note: I think canonizing the Aurigan Reach is fine. There are a bunch of easy ways to explain their collapse. (Heroic merc leaves, Kamea can't handle it, they collapse to a few worlds)  The get conquered by somebody. Hell, a battalion was a big problem for them. A Battalion sized pirate group shows up and puts their military to the sword. Done.

Keeping them around isn't much of a problem really either. They join or are absorbed by a neighbor. Fun little detour, back to the main storyline. Welcome to a new place to play.   

[Robroy]

Or maybe it is as simple as the houses fall to infighting and are unable to work together.

[Colt Ward]

The one thing that shows Kamea means it is her rescue of the spectacle'd yes man, whatever his name was I cannot remember.  The images of her walking the freed of the prison planet and racing to Mastiff's side.  Her decision in the midst of the civil war to chase after the database information- not knowing there was anything use-able on the other side- indicates letting personal issues interfere with running the state.

But yeah, Yvonne should never have been regent . . . Quintus Allard?  It would have been really interesting to see him as the regent and let Yvonne be the public face.

While the narrative did use familiar tropes- particularly to BT; Lostech discovery- check, setting a ruler on the throne- check, getting revenge- check.  I think this was fine since it covered the traditional plots going back to the GDL books but I look forward to Flashpoint's mini-story missions.  Especially since they are going to be marathons where you cannot repair between- guard that armor & spare the ammo!

[Sir Chaos]

In a situation with no good answers, you simply chose the one that paid better.  Sometimes, if the bills start to pile up, you choose the one that pays better, even if it's the WRONG answer to the political situation.  That is the harsh reality of the mercenary trade.

You had the choice between the option that pays, the option that leads to bankruptcy, and the option that already tried to kill you and would probably try again because your past ties to Kamea.

I don´t see what the protagonist could have chosen differently... except perhaps bail after a mission or two (and pocketing the pay for said mission or two) on the vague hope that there are greener pastures elsewhere, beyond the reach of the Magistracy (you did bail on the cause they supported, after all).

[The_Caveman]

You had the choice between the option that pays, the option that leads to bankruptcy, and the option that already tried to kill you and would probably try again because your past ties to Kamea.

I don´t see what the protagonist could have chosen differently... except perhaps bail after a mission or two (and pocketing the pay for said mission or two) on the vague hope that there are greener pastures elsewhere, beyond the reach of the Magistracy (you did bail on the cause they supported, after all).

Throw Kamea and Four Eyes out the airlock (maybe Darius too, his intel is so dangerously bad it could be considered an act of mutiny), take the Argo to the Inner Sphere and sell it to the NAIS, pay off the loan sharks, and start a new life.

That's my headcanon.

[Icerose20]

Her saving grace in my eyes is her questioning at the end. 

[Colt Ward]

Except . . . if you were a jumpship captain offering in the periphery and the bank & MoC said do not transport this DS outside of 'X' region . . . why would you do it for a little one time pay off?  Kamea & the MoC held their debts.  If they went to the IS, ComStar would pass along the information and they would end up dispossessed.

Additionally, you want to wait on the FS to provide you the opportunity to buy a ship that allows you to haul 18 mechs?  Or get something to work with the Leopard?

[The_Caveman]

Except . . . if you were a jumpship captain offering in the periphery and the bank & MoC said do not transport this DS outside of 'X' region . . . why would you do it for a little one time pay off?  Kamea & the MoC held their debts.  If they went to the IS, ComStar would pass along the information and they would end up dispossessed.

Additionally, you want to wait on the FS to provide you the opportunity to buy a ship that allows you to haul 18 mechs?  Or get something to work with the Leopard?

That's why you hire a JumpShip captain to transport the Behemoth freighter Ogra, which is in no way associated with an indebted mercenary command. Anyone who gets close enough to dispute the IFF signal is being paid not to notice.

The Argo is worth far more than its capacity as a 'Mech hauler, and of all the potential buyers in 3025 the FS are the ones least likely to shiv you and take your stuff. You sell off the Argo, you get the Martini on a Boat ending from MW2 Mercs even after your creditors have been paid off.

As for Comstar snitching, you're not worth the effort of passing along a message. DropShips and even JumpShips get stolen all the time, Comstar doesn't put a lojack on them. C* is only going to break its neutrality when it has something to gain in furtherance of its plans (most likely taking the Argo for itself, which it doesn't need help doing, just ask the three ROM sleeper agents in your crew).

And for whatever the propaganda they spread, Kamea was at best a pawn for MoC interests, likely one of several fuses they had burning. If that particular one got snuffed out, it was a minor inconvenience. The Magestrix might be mildly annoyed, but once you cross into the IS you're somebody else's problem anyway.

[Colt Ward]

Except in Doubleblind ComStar/WoB passed along the notice about the debts being called on Avanti's Angels and for authorities to seize the assets of the Angels- Astrokrasy was a out of the way place and not what could be expected from their contract.  And it was a common enough occurrence that Gioavanti did not question it or demand to see the notification.  Yes, it was a ploy on the Blakists part but the merc CO did not know it and accepted that the lenders had taken such a action with the attendant seizure being legitimate.  I also want to say the merc unit fluff also talk about restrictions on a group's travel based on their debt agreements.

Additionally if you were trying to get outside the fences your lender had set up, for the JS captain its still weighing a one time fare- no matter how extortionate (and where was the money coming from for that)- vs working in the territory of a large political entity or for those they have influence with such as DS shipping companies or shipping companies who need cargo carried.  And its not a secret you can keep . . . some where, some time, some one will talk- one year, five years, ten years, it does not matter it will get out.  Being blacklisted is not a joke and its something established in canon as a business practice.  Now you MIGHT be able to see about making a contact and having a House JS come out to retrieve you . . . but again, its not going to be a secret trip.

While HBS is its own animal and it was set up for reasons of game play, in that universe its lenders do have that power to limit movement . . . and there is not much I know of in BTU canon to contradict it.  The PC mercs are also working through ComStar's MRC- which is where the not getting paid & doublecrossed on the 1st mission comes from- and want to keep working through official channels.  Especially when defectors or others who violate contract terms get blacklisted.

[Apocal]

On a note: I think canonizing the Aurigan Reach is fine. There are a bunch of easy ways to explain their collapse. (Heroic merc leaves, Kamea can't handle it, they collapse to a few worlds)  The get conquered by somebody. Hell, a battalion was a big problem for them. A Battalion sized pirate group shows up and puts their military to the sword. Done.

Keeping them around isn't much of a problem really either. They join or are absorbed by a neighbor. Fun little detour, back to the main storyline. Welcome to a new place to play.

The Canopans presumably didn't just bankroll Kamea's cause on the basis of her looks. And later the Capellans make serious in-roads in that region, do they not? Seems like the meta-plot is of Kamea falling under the sway of the Canopans and, by extension, Liao.

[Colt Ward]

Canopians and Liao at that time were not cozy.  In fact, Canopus will invade the CapCon in conjunction with the Anduriens in the future.

[Mecha-Anchovy]

I don't know, I think the game pushes pretty hard for Kamea and crew being the good guys, and Espinosa being evil. It's not a particularly deep story, and I'd rather just accept it for what it is.

Adding in "also all the heroes were total failures and everything went to hell the moment the game ended" just feels petty, to me.

[Maingunnery]

I don't know, I think the game pushes pretty hard for Kamea and crew being the good guys, and Espinosa being evil. It's not a particularly deep story, and I'd rather just accept it for what it is.

Adding in "also all the heroes were total failures and everything went to hell the moment the game ended" just feels petty, to me.

The conflict would have weakened the Reach and after the Mercs leave (I can't imagine myself staying).......  xp

[Colt Ward]

Its the 'Mortal Wound' scenario . . .

It can be seen in revolutions & civil wars- one side ends up winning, but they do it in such a way that they are weakened- bleeding off energy (money, resources, population) which causes the victor to eventually succumb.  Look at the Peloponnesian War, waged between Sparta & her allies against Athens & her allies that destroyed much of the Greek Golden Age improvements and devastated the combined Greek economy.  The ritualized warfare between the city states was subsumed by all out war that spread their tactics & tech as well as wrecking the Greek combined economy.

In its aftermath it set up some resentment between Sparta & her allies which led to more conflict . . . and the region never recovered before Phillip came calling.  The they won the war but lost the victory.  You can win the knife fight with your opponent dead at your feet but they can still give you a wound that kills.

[Icerose20]

My head cannon, My Merc unit would be similar to the GDL.  My commander was a titled noble and helped defend the landhold, but he like to fight, and fly around in space so he runs the Merc Unit throughout, being a 'fixer' unit.

I follow the line, you break it, you own it. 

For me, I'd give the Secondary Memory Storage to Max.   ;D  After all, Sian looks better under the light of Nuclear Hellfire.

[Apocal]

Canopians and Liao at that time were not cozy.  In fact, Canopus will invade the CapCon in conjunction with the Anduriens in the future.

I meant later in the timeline, sorry for not making that clear.

[Caedis Animus]

Throw Kamea and Four Eyes out the airlock (maybe Darius too, his intel is so dangerously bad it could be considered an act of mutiny), take the Argo to the Inner Sphere and sell it to the NAIS, pay off the loan sharks, and start a new life.

That's my headcanon.

Your headcanon ignores the basic relationships your character has with the others and also the situation you're in, so I'm not sure why you'd think any of that is a good idea.

Hell, even if you aren't even in it under an 'honorable' pretense, as a Merc Commander, just throwing/trying to throw people out an airlock is an amazing way to get spaced yourself, and replaced by someone who isn't a wannabe murderer and psychopath. It's extremely frustrating how often I have to point that out-Battletech isn't Warhammer 40K. You can't, as a Mercenary Commander, summarily execute someone (Under your employ, at least) -and if you do, you're very liable to get strung up by your own innards or whatever method is on hand by your former employees.

Edit; Especially not for something as inane as 'gave bad intel accidentally'. You're likely getting most of your intel from your employer, because Merc.

[Mecha-Anchovy]

Its the 'Mortal Wound' scenario . . .

That can happen, sure, but there's no particular reason that it must happen that way here. The Aurigan Reach isn't canon, so there's no obligation for its future to be, well, anything one way or the other.

I can't think of any canonical reason, or any reason logically proceeding from the plot of the game, why "Kamea rules wisely and well and the Reach prospers" is any less viable a future than "Kamea screws everything up and the Reach falls apart". I'd actually argue that the former seems more appropriate for the spirit of what the game is trying to do. BattleTech is a pretty straightforward heroic story, the princess and the mercenary and the rightful restoration, and... well, the genre-appropriate way for that story to end is "and they all lived happily ever after".

As far as I can tell there is no canonical or logical reason why "and they all lived happily ever after" couldn't be the future, and since that seems to be the ending that the game encourages - the game clearly presents Kamea as a good person and the Restoration as noble - I think it's more harmonious with what the game is trying to do to imagine a happy ending. A downer ending, it seems to me, goes against what the plot is generally trying to set up. I'd rather an unoriginal but well-executed happy ending than a 'clever' downer ending that goes against the grain.

That said, you do customise your character and mercenary company in the game, so I have no particular problem with people imagining whatever post-game epilogue feels appropriate for their character, the campaign they played, or whatever. If the Reach falling into anarchy would be more appropriate for the character or the type of story you produced (say, that of a money-grubbing mercenary out to grab what they can amid the fall of nations), then by all means imagine that.

Especially not for something as inane as 'gave bad intel accidentally'. You're likely getting most of your intel from your employer, because Merc.

Heh. I remember the first mission I played in BattleTech that seriously gave me a lot of trouble was a Capellan contract to destroy a deserter with a powerful mech. I didn't play particularly well and took some casualties, and eventually pushed through the Canopians... only to discover that the deserter was in an Orion and they smashed another one of my mechs before finally going down. I felt pretty miffed that the Capellans hadn't given me proper intelligence (come on, it was a deserter from their own forces: they could have said "oh, by the way, here are the specs on the deserter's mech"). The default Liao mission success quote is: "House Liao has always believed in one thing, Commander: victory at any cost. It seems you also understand this vital lesson. We are pleased you've performed so well."

Considering that half my lance got wiped out fighting a similar-weight Canopian lance and then I got mauled by a heavy, I felt I'd indeed made some heavy sacrifices for victory... but also that this was only necessitated because the Capellans had withheld important intelligence, leading me to take a dangerous contract that otherwise I would have avoided. I read the final quote imagining the Liao liaison with this insincere smile. Good job, you poor mercenary scum - you did exactly what we manipulated you into!

As it happens that's just a default quote and the target mech is randomised anyway, that situation was entirely emergent. I was also very much reading it in terms of the 3025 characterisation of House Liao, which is of these slimy, deceptive manipulators. The net result is that a situation where, in my imagined story of the mission, I got bad intel, the mission went pear-shaped, I won regardless but with heavy casualties, and my employer, in a completely character-appropriate way, smirked and gave me an insincere pat on the head. It was great. It really drove home for me the feeling of what it must be like to be a mercenary in this universe, especially dealing with employers who have their own agenda, which may differ from yours.

So I enjoyed that little story, noted it down in my memory, made a mental note to not trust Capellans, and went onwards. That was exactly what I want out of a BattleTech game!  :)

[Colt Ward]

I can agree with most of the Mecha, but I think the indicators (even if forced by programming/narrative) are that she does not have what it takes to rule in a time of change- to reforge the Coalition.  Even as she 'freed' the other major 'houses' from Directorate control, the way she approached them was not IMO from a position of strength- often times she was on the defensive in the verbal sparring & power plays.  They owed fealty to her family.  They should have been resisting rather than collaborating with Espinosa.  While we were on the inside of the conversations rather than just seeing the spin to the public she gave them too much IMO.  Just to me, for the leader of a crusade she did not seem to be in much control.  But its been a while since I ran through the campaign- redoing it now to get ready for a different start point for Flashpoint.


BT can be compared to Game of Thrones, so to steal a GoT meme-

[Mecha-Anchovy]

I think that memes from bad television shows based on decent-but-overrated novels are not convincing.  ;)

(The above opinions being purely subjective and not meant to criticise people who enjoy the said shows or novels.)

I would agree that BattleTech is not particularly complex in terms of plot, so it's pretty hard to understand what the internal politics of the Reach are like. The founding houses aren't detailed much, we don't know what the civil, social, or political life of the Reach is, and so on. All we really have to go on, I think, are genre conventions: the exiled princess, the ruthless usurper, the noble-but-doomed mentor, and so on. I suppose the question I ask myself is, "What kind of story is this game telling, and what sort of ending would fit with that story?"

[The_Caveman]

Your headcanon ignores the basic relationships your character has with the others and also the situation you're in, so I'm not sure why you'd think any of that is a good idea.

What basic relationships? At the point in the game where you get the Argo flying, you have nothing tying you to Kamea except the puppet strings she puts on you by assuming your debts--which she does for her own agenda, not because she's a nice lady. You were in the Reach working under Mastiff. Your loyalty was to him and he's gone.

Hell, even if you aren't even in it under an 'honorable' pretense, as a Merc Commander, just throwing/trying to throw people out an airlock is an amazing way to get spaced yourself, and replaced by someone who isn't a wannabe murderer and psychopath. It's extremely frustrating how often I have to point that out-Battletech isn't Warhammer 40K. You can't, as a Mercenary Commander, summarily execute someone (Under your employ, at least) -and if you do, you're very liable to get strung up by your own innards or whatever method is on hand by your former employees.

Edit; Especially not for something as inane as 'gave bad intel accidentally'. You're likely getting most of your intel from your employer, because Merc.

The bit about Darius was sarcasm, if that wasn't clear. Obviously you don't turn on your own crew--but Kamea and her eminently forgettable sidekick (Alexander?) are not part of your crew.

The player character is very much a murderer, as it happens. You kill people on every single drop (often gleefully), voluntarily and for nothing other than pay. Unless you exclusively take defense and "mercy" missions and take every enemy 'Mech out at the legs, you're basically a state-sanctioned hit man.
We often pretend that war is "clean" in the BT universe, but it is very much not. It's not over-the-top grimdark, no, but you're fooling yourself if you think mercenaries are good people. War is hell; anyone who goes into it deliberately when they have other career choices is by definition a bit of a psychopath.
The game doesn't even give you much in the way of chances to roleplay trying to spare human life--a surrender mechanic would have added a lot of depth that is presently missing. You're expected to kill the opposition to a man. Everyone on your crew is complicit and voices no opposition. You really think they're going to mutiny if you dispose of someone who is blatantly using you and risking your lives for political ends?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

...The player character is very much a murderer, as it happens. You kill people on every single drop (often gleefully), voluntarily and for nothing other than pay. Unless you exclusively take defense and "mercy" missions and take every enemy 'Mech out at the legs, you're basically a state-sanctioned hit man.
We often pretend that war is "clean" in the BT universe, but it is very much not. It's not over-the-top grimdark, no, but you're fooling yourself if you think mercenaries are good people. War is hell; anyone who goes into it deliberately when they have other career choices is by definition a bit of a psychopath...

There's a lot to disagree with there. But down that path lies warnings and threadlocks.

[Mecha-Anchovy]

Quite leaving aside any debates about realism, isn't it true that BattleTech as a franchise has heavily invoked the idea of the honourable professional mercenary?

If we think about the most famous mercenaries in BattleTech - Wolf's Dragoons, the Kell Hounds, and the Eridani Light Horse - the idea of the mercenary as either noble warrior or as professional soldier seems pretty common, and both concepts necessarily hold open the idea that a mercenary could be a good person.

Whether you think this is plausible in terms of worldbuilding or psychology seems rather beside the point. Mercenary characters are a pillar of BattleTech as a franchise, and that's included sympathetic, decent mercenaries for decades. If you want to be Morgan Kell or Ariana Winston or some other heroic mercenary... I think you should be able to.

[guardiandashi]

What /snip

Actually while the HBS game does not have surrender mechanics per se, if you played the "right way" per the time frame and on the battletech board/rpg you would likely have a very limited number of actual kills.

1 forced withdraw mechanics would apply.
2 surrender mechanics should be in place. (in most cases)
3  fighting to disable not Destroy was the rule of the era.

[The_Caveman]

Quite leaving aside any debates about realism, isn't it true that BattleTech as a franchise has heavily invoked the idea of the honourable professional mercenary?

I see the mercenary in BattleTech as being inspired by the Renaissance-era condottieri and Free Companies of the 30 Years War. Some of them are arguably better and less tyrannical than the nation-states that employ them, but there is also no shortage of out-and-out brigands. The more honorable commands also tend to be de facto house units like the Kell Hounds. They're not killing for the highest bidder the way the player in HBS BT does (or can do, I suppose it's possible to take only missions for the Aurigan Liberation and play it as love-of-country, but you're not going to get rich that way).

If you want to be Morgan Kell or Ariana Winston or some other heroic mercenary... I think you should be able to.

So do I. But I consider those characters to be the exception in the mercenary trade and not the rule. (The ELH in particular have a reputation that is not-for-nothing built on being nobler than the common rabble, and that's not just their SLDF roots.) There are much more black hats than white hats. And the option to be good means nothing without the option to also be evil. There is a reason why "kill the meat, save the metal" is a catchphrase associated with the 3rd SW. Salvaging 'Mechs usually means hosing their former operators out of the cockpits.

Actually while the HBS game does not have surrender mechanics per se, if you played the "right way" per the time frame and on the battletech board/rpg you would likely have a very limited number of actual kills.

1 forced withdraw mechanics would apply.
2 surrender mechanics should be in place. (in most cases)
3  fighting to disable not Destroy was the rule of the era.

The absence of these things sets a very clear tone for the game.

It should be possible to do a "White Hat" playthrough but the mechanics of the game don't allow this. Without reading lots into what happens offscreen, it's pretty clear you're killing a lot of 'Mech pilots and certainly a lot of vehicle crews during firefights. The very fact that 'Mechs are so plentiful that once you're a few missions into the campaign you stop bothering even trying to salvage anything under 60 tons screws with the way things play out. On my current playthrough I've destroyed more 'Mechs than the Taurian Concordat would even canonically possess in 3025 and I'm only halfway through the campaign....

A 3rd SW-accurate game should involve a lot fewer 'Mechs, a lot more vehicles and infantry, and fights that consist largely of maneuvering to a position of advantage that forces the opponent to seek a relatively bloodless withdrawal. Pirates with some Scorpions and Strikers should be terrified to take on a 'Mech lance.

But the game, as released, doesn't give you the option to attempt to spare lives. The enemy never withdraws, enemy pilots never eject, and fights against vehicles look like the 1991 Highway of Death. The game also doesn't shy away from the fact that your pilots are hired killers, as evidenced by some of the unique MechWarrior biographies.

Some of this is obviously because it's a video game and people want explosions rather than fights that end before they began, but clearly not all of it.