Author Topic: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race  (Read 193054 times)

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #480 on: 11 July 2018, 12:14:53 »
I still think that upping speed by 1 point compared to your likely opponents is a winner, in the general condition, cause you can optimize for a range and hope to get it...  but by 2 is a loser, because once you've spent 12% more base mass on thrust, its hard to win at any range against a foe with a balanced weapons fit.

That was basically my thought designing the Vittoria - you're going for slow ships, so they tried to out-speed you somewhat and accept a reduced weapons load to dictate range. (Sorry to stick it to you with a tailored LC-bashing design, but it was the only sensible thing for the RWR to do). That said, while I agree that 5/8 loses to 3/5, I do think 4/6 might possibly beat 2/3 - the proportion of warload lost for the added speed is lower. 3/5 would beat 1/2 for sure, IMO, and of course 6/9 is bordering on a joke design unless it's a dedicated scout or light carrier.

Actually, this is almost getting back to why I decided against monitors a couple weeks back. The designs were fairly balanced in most ways when you compare them to an equal cost in stations, but the huge warload and the fact that speed is so closely tied to armour meant that you wind up designing ships at 6/9 or 7/11 just to get the armour you want and use up your tonnage. A 6/9 monitor felt balanced, and possibly a bit on the slow side. That's not something you can realistically fight against with KF-drive ships, and any attempt to get monitors down to the same sorts of speeds used by true naval vessels would require me making construction rules from scratch, which was just too much. I was still thinking about adding them until I sat down and designed one - their awful impact on speed-vs-power curves was obvious immediately, and that was the last straw in rejecting them.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #481 on: 11 July 2018, 12:41:54 »
Im not at all offended or feeling bashed.  Im their ONLY opponent, the RWR would -never- fight the TH/SL  :), so of course they build to counter.

I did a sheet of combat power curves (guns x armor/si) at various speeds and cargo fractions - Ill try to rememeber to share them when I get home.  3/5 No cargo was best (cause SI), but if you wanted some cargo, 2/3 won out, IIRC.

As I wanted some cargo to allow me to threaten more enemy worlds, and this complicate enemy deployment decisions (and hopefully thereby reduce the number of enemy ships coming to visit me!) I chose 2/3 and the Tyr was born.

Were I the RWR, id have gone 3/5 and all lasers and try to atay at the far edge of extreme - outlast the missile barrage at low THNs and then use a pue NL armament to outshoot the mixed armament Tyr (slow vessels -must- chose mixed armament in most cases).  But thats a difference in taste, and Id have to go under the hood on bith ships to get a real feel for how they stack up as units or in squadrons/fleets.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #482 on: 11 July 2018, 13:05:17 »
I threw together a simple graph of loads at various cargo fractions, SI, and safe thrust. Assumed 50% of mass to KF drive and other basics, 1% per 10 SI, and 6% per point of thrust.



N/A is ships that are illegal either because their SI is too high for thrust or because the remaining mass fraction is less than 0%.


Kiviar

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #483 on: 11 July 2018, 13:43:06 »
Its value drops rapidly in fleet action - because sooner or later you get a mixed fleet with some slow boats, or a ship gets lamed by enemy fire or just engine problems

I agree. It's one of the reasons I went with the Crucis over other designs I had. Speed or not you're eventually going to end up in NAC range against 3/5s, so you either have to do your best to cripple them at extreme, or more likely out-fight them at medium.

Once we start getting heavier dropships, we might start seeing things like E-Boats taking the place of faster warships all together.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #484 on: 11 July 2018, 14:04:28 »
I agree. It's one of the reasons I went with the Crucis over other designs I had. Speed or not you're eventually going to end up in NAC range against 3/5s, so you either have to do your best to cripple them at extreme, or more likely out-fight them at medium.

Once we start getting heavier dropships, we might start seeing things like E-Boats taking the place of faster warships all together.

Crucis looks eerily like something I would design.  Id have made slightly different weapons choices, but '3/5 NoCargo' is the sweet spot on the curves for a reason.  Just means you need cargo droppers or the like to give her any strategic reach.

I think the big revolutions will be, in no particular order:
1.)  Rising Hull Sizes.  Bigger is just plain better, once you have enough ships to be most places you want to be at once - and we will.
2.)  Armor Upgrades changing the weapons balance.  I think this will be good, paradoxically, for LONG range weapons.
3.)  Large Droppers change a lot of equations.  So do LF Batteries
4.)  AMS is gonna hurt missiles.
5.)  Bearings Only Launches may be the sound of a record scratching as the LCN turns into the RMN.  Speed suddenly WILL be armor.

On the other hand...
1.)  NPPCs wont change anything, their just more fire control efficient Naval Lasers.  Were noowhere near threatening fire control limits on Naval Lasers, and I think weve all discovered just how terrible NLs (and thus NPPCs, etc.) are in terms of mass to damage.  Unless they can be decisive outside NAC ranges (still an open question!), its NACs with NLs/NPPCs as flavor/insurance.  Now, its possible that mass combat will change that - as fleet sizes grow, so does the range of decisive engagement.
2.)  I dont think advanced fighters will change (very much).  At 15 Million per, unless that XL Engine gives a LOT more in game than it does in Table Top, they are gonna be hard to justify.  MAYBE on the lighter carriers.
3.)  Better Battlemech Weapons wont change much.  Fighters do their anti-ship buisness with missiles, and rarely have a reason to close into the range of a ships standard scale weaponry.  Skindancing/Critseeking doctrine for fighters may affect this.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #485 on: 11 July 2018, 14:26:06 »
I think the big revolutions will be, in no particular order:
1.)  Rising Hull Sizes.  Bigger is just plain better, once you have enough ships to be most places you want to be at once - and we will.
2.)  Armor Upgrades changing the weapons balance.  I think this will be good, paradoxically, for LONG range weapons.
3.)  Large Droppers change a lot of equations.  So do LF Batteries
4.)  AMS is gonna hurt missiles.
5.)  Bearings Only Launches may be the sound of a record scratching as the LCN turns into the RMN.  Speed suddenly WILL be armor.

1) Yeah, playing the small NPC nations half of my thoughts are about "Okay, when can I put some money in the bank for yard upgrades next turn?". The RWR isn't too badly off here, because size-2 gives you ships that are at least passable, but bigger is definitely better.

2) Those will be big, but I'm not sure why you think it'll help long-range weapons. It'll primarily make engagements take longer, which means more time to close in.

3) Yup. LF in particular could get quite interesting to write about.

4) Yes, but perhaps less than you might expect. My current intention is for an AMS to be perhaps 2-3x as good as a machine gun for point defence - I've needed to make MGs pretty good so ships can survive in these battles, so I can't crank up the power level too far without obsoleting missiles.

5) Remember that there'll be an accuracy penalty there. Also, by that time you'll be facing real fleets with escorts, so weapon dispersion between too many targets and AMS shooting down missiles before they hit will be an issue. It'll be good, but not infinitely so.

On the other hand...
1.)  NPPCs wont change anything, their just more fire control efficient Naval Lasers.  Were noowhere near threatening fire control limits on Naval Lasers, and I think weve all discovered just how terrible NLs (and thus NPPCs, etc.) are in terms of mass to damage.  Unless they can be decisive outside NAC ranges (still an open question!), its NACs with NLs/NPPCs as flavor/insurance.  Now, its possible that mass combat will change that - as fleet sizes grow, so does the range of decisive engagement.
2.)  I dont think advanced fighters will change (very much).  At 15 Million per, unless that XL Engine gives a LOT more in game than it does in Table Top, they are gonna be hard to justify.  MAYBE on the lighter carriers.
3.)  Better Battlemech Weapons wont change much.  Fighters do their anti-ship buisness with missiles, and rarely have a reason to close into the range of a ships standard scale weaponry.  Skindancing/Critseeking doctrine for fighters may affect this.

1) I think NPPCs are actually somewhat lame in our current setting, which I would not have expected. NLs are good at long-range anti-fighter targeting, which NPPCs don't share, and our ships aren't big enough for the fire-control efficiency to really shine. That said, the abundance of MGs and anti-fighter weapons means fire control is at more of a premium for our designs than for canon ships, so they're not totally useless.

2) As a rule of thumb, they'll be carrying the same missiles as their standard brethren, but be 50-100% better in a dogfight. I expect them to see some use on fleet units, because of the cost of carrying a bay around between systems, but system defence will be done with standard engines all the way through. It's not worth paying 200% more for 20-50% more overall combat capability when space is free.

3) We've seen some close-range fighter attacks thus far, and will likely see more. It's not going to take out a ship, but fighters can blind a WarShip and cripple its light weaponry(including MG/AMS), and that can play a useful role. They're also not bad at killing cripples when needed. Point defence has value on any ship in a fight, and will continue to do so. Also, heavy weapons(Gauss/AC-20) do as much damage as light capital weapons like Barracudas, so they may start to be effective against light armour, if anyone has any lightly armoured ships left by the time those weapons exist.
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 17:06:57 by Alsadius »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #486 on: 11 July 2018, 14:52:01 »
2) Those will be big, but I'm not sure why you think it'll help long-range weapons. It'll primarily make engagements take longer, which means more time to close in.

5) Remember that there'll be an accuracy penalty there. Also, by that time you'll be facing real fleets with escorts, so weapon dispersion between too many targets and AMS shooting down missiles before they hit will be an issue. It'll be good, but not infinitely so.

2.)  It sounded odd to me, too, at first, but bear with me.  These aren't wet navy ships, with a speed.  They are space war ships, with a vector.  Close range is not a place that you park, its a place two maneuvering units pass through - there must be some relative velocity causing them to close, else they would not close.  And a long range fleet that realizes it can no longer run is going to accelerate TOWARDS its opponent, to minimize the duration of the close range portion of the battle.  Of course, if you have superior thrust, you MIGHT manage to SLOWLY close the range on your opponent, rather than just overrunning them at higher relative velocities - but the more time you spend faffing about generating a perfect zero-zero intercept on a manuvering opponent who is shooting you with longer range, more accurate guns.. well, the more time you spend under longer range, more accurate guns.

Given tougher armor, it is harder for the close-range fleet to 'close the deal' at point blank in one salvo.  And if it cannot, range will reopen, at least for a while, and the long range fleet will have roughly twice as long to fire at its advantaged ranges as it did in the opening stages.

Also, frankly, NACs, espc the big ones, are just way-silly-good compared to everything else.  If we don't tend to 'rule against them', then we, I think, will start seeing NAC-30 through NAC-20 monobuilds.

Finally, we have to stop and bow at the value of broadsides.  3 arcs fire together off the broadside, at most 2 fore and aft.  And the fore and aft critical charts are just plain hateful compared to the broadside ones.  Anyone aggressively closing with their nose to the foe risks his CIC and Sensors, and anyone seriously brave-sir-robining while in range of the foe risks his engines, or his fuel tank.


5) Rules As Written, a Bearings-Only Missile that is tuned for 'short' and has a target in its 'short' basket is just as accurate as a missile fired from an actual ship at short range.  Thats.. insanely good.  Yes, AMS will help, and multiple targets will help, but at that point 'Manticore Missile Massacre' starts looking like a legitimate choice for ship armament.  Not necessarily the ONLY choice, but A Choice, and More Choices is Good. 

What I find MOST INTERESTING about the choice is it -really- raises the value of tactical thrust.  A 4/6 ship has a much larger CEP for missile targeting than a 2/3 ship... and at 5/8, bearings only starts loosing a lot of its benefit.  Of course, a 5/8 gives up so much for that 5/8 that the missile fleet may not need bearings only launches.. but a 5/8 missile fleet against a, say, 3/5 missile fleet might ITSELF be able to generate 3 or 5 'shipkiller' salvos, and then meander off at thrust 8 to find its colliers, reload, and do it again...

Quote
1) I actually think NPPCs are actually surprisingly lame in our current setting, which I would not have expected. NLs are good at long-range anti-fighter targeting, which NPPCs don't share. That said, the abundance of MGs and anti-fighter weapons means fire control is at more of a premium for our designs than for canon ships, so they're not totally useless.

NPPCs are just NL with less FireCon burden and no anti-fighter role.  Now, they will allow us to go heavy long range broadside on super-big ships, but they really just let us do at 2MT something that we can currently do at 750kt - but do not choose to do.
« Last Edit: 11 July 2018, 15:16:42 by marcussmythe »

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #487 on: 11 July 2018, 15:14:36 »
But by the same token, accelerating towards your opponent doesn't mean you blow through them - they can match your acceleration vector with theirs, and as long as they can accelerate as well as you(or better), they can control range just as well as they could if it was a simple chase. The slower ship has a fair bit of control over facings that get exposed in battle, particularly whether they want to face an opponent's nose or their aft, but they cannot disengage so easily as that.

That said, a faster closing speed means it's harder to dwell at close range for long. Ignoring facings for a second and assuming you can simply match what they do, the relevant ranges are up to 54(HNPPC extreme) down to 6(NAC/40 short). If you have total control over the engagement geometry and a top acceleration advantage of 1, the best you can do to park within NAC/40 short of the opponent is come in with 10 higher speed than them from 55, and slow down at a maximal rate. You enter their range on turn 2, they enter your short range on turn 8, and you never blow past them. But that's still 6 turns where their weapon is in a superior range band to yours, and that's if all goes perfectly. It's 4 turns if your acceleration advantage is 2, or 3 turns if it's an advantage of 3.

You do have a point about the crits being risked, though I should probably re-familiarize myself with those tables (I've done similar things, because they're mostly natural, but it's good to double-check canon).

I expect I'll change the rules re: bearings-only launches somehow, but I'll think about it more when we get to them.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #488 on: 11 July 2018, 15:30:57 »
But by the same token, accelerating towards your opponent doesn't mean you blow through them - they can match your acceleration vector with theirs, and as long as they can accelerate as well as you(or better), they can control range just as well as they could if it was a simple chase. The slower ship has a fair bit of control over facings that get exposed in battle, particularly whether they want to face an opponent's nose or their aft, but they cannot disengage so easily as that.

That said, a faster closing speed means it's harder to dwell at close range for long. Ignoring facings for a second and assuming you can simply match what they do, the relevant ranges are up to 54(HNPPC extreme) down to 6(NAC/40 short). If you have total control over the engagement geometry and a top acceleration advantage of 1, the best you can do to park within NAC/40 short of the opponent is come in with 10 higher speed than them from 55, and slow down at a maximal rate. You enter their range on turn 2, they enter your short range on turn 8, and you never blow past them. But that's still 6 turns where their weapon is in a superior range band to yours, and that's if all goes perfectly. It's 4 turns if your acceleration advantage is 2, or 3 turns if it's an advantage of 3.

You do have a point about the crits being risked, though I should probably re-familiarize myself with those tables (I've done similar things, because they're mostly natural, but it's good to double-check canon).

I expect I'll change the rules re: bearings-only launches somehow, but I'll think about it more when we get to them.

Yes, but turning costs thrust, too.  :)  I'm hardly saying its perfect, I'm just saying that the situation is more mobile/long range friendly than Jutland - which was itself more mobile/long range friendly than the Nile.. and NAC/40s really want the Nile.

A lot really turns on the raw numbers, and how many turns of fire to be decisive at what ranges by what fleets against what fleets - but that itself may turn on more math than you feel like doing - though I may for my own amusement wang up 'expected damage at range X' for various weapons based on various assumptions.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #489 on: 11 July 2018, 17:25:39 »
You do have a point about the crits being risked, though I should probably re-familiarize myself with those tables (I've done similar things, because they're mostly natural, but it's good to double-check canon).

I found perusal of the critical chart, the 'automatic chance for a critical on a single missile hit' chart, and the expected hits-to-life calculations very informative, and they influenced my choice of missile armament.  In short, if you can get a nose or tail shot and pour missiles in (barracudas or white sharks... barracudas for numbers, or white sharks for increased per missile chance), you have a solid chance of getting a pretty brutal critical hit - Sensors is a +1 to all THNs (bad) for just one crit.  CIC is +2 on the first crit (this is nearly 'go home' territory).  Engines is a point of thrust per critical.  Fuel is hard to get, but its a 1-in-36 on an aft critical of 'boom'.  On broadsides, they just hit weapons/weapons bays, which is way better than nothing, but not nearly as crushing.

For the record, if we are counting bays, missiles are not by doctrine grouped, unless rules limit the total number of bays per facing - they are fired separately, because of rules that say a 'bay' of 30 Barracudas causes the same number of rolls for crits as a 'bay' of one barracuda.  Which is silly.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #490 on: 11 July 2018, 18:07:16 »
For the record, if we are counting bays, missiles are not by doctrine grouped, unless rules limit the total number of bays per facing - they are fired separately, because of rules that say a 'bay' of 30 Barracudas causes the same number of rolls for crits as a 'bay' of one barracuda.  Which is silly.

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of gamey crap that I wanted to avoid with narrative resolution. More missiles means more crit chances, however they're organized.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #491 on: 11 July 2018, 19:22:59 »
-nods-  Exactly.  That said, as the main missilieer - once you look at the numbers on a missile masscre, you may want to edge those crit odds down some.  I dont want there to be ever a ‘perfect’ answer, and barracuda storms could be close.

Kiviar

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #492 on: 13 July 2018, 12:41:22 »
Yeah, that's exactly the sort of gamey crap that I wanted to avoid with narrative resolution.

That's fair. Although it still doesn't alter the square-cool law. More missiles will always increase the coolness of any fight by the square of the multiplier C2=C1(M2/M1)2.
« Last Edit: 13 July 2018, 12:46:08 by Kiviar »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #493 on: 13 July 2018, 13:08:10 »
It is not without reason that MacRoss Industries is the primary supplier of heavy naval missiles in the Commonwealth...

Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #494 on: 14 July 2018, 07:19:21 »
Well, after offering to help out with the Master Page, I believe I have it up to date as per everyone's budgets for this turn. Does not include any casualties we're about to suffer of course.

Let me know if I stuffed anything up, didn't touch the Terrans or RWR, figured Mr GM had those well in hand.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #495 on: 14 July 2018, 09:10:55 »
Thank you for your time on this, Smegish.

Alsadius, if you can think of anything else you want to off-load or could use help with, holler.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #496 on: 14 July 2018, 10:39:28 »
Well, after offering to help out with the Master Page, I believe I have it up to date as per everyone's budgets for this turn. Does not include any casualties we're about to suffer of course.

Let me know if I stuffed anything up, didn't touch the Terrans or RWR, figured Mr GM had those well in hand.

The help is really appreciated. Thank you. And yes, I've been keeping the NPC sheets updated - that's the sheet I use for budgeting, which is why they all have calculations.

Any of you who want to be able to edit it, PM me your email. (Except Kiviar and Smegish, you're already added)

truetanker

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #497 on: 14 July 2018, 12:31:40 »
Let me know if I stuffed anything up, didn't touch the Terrans or RWR, figured Mr GM had those well in hand.

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Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #498 on: 16 July 2018, 08:26:09 »
I'm most of the way through writing up the turn, so you can expect it soon-ish. There's also a few things I wanted to mention as side notes, so I'll post those now.

- It's becoming clear to me that one turn per week is a pace that I cannot realistically maintain for the long term. I'll try to keep it as close as I can, but turns will probably take longer than a week most of the time.

- Maingunnery, I only just noticed that you used the costs from your custom DropShip design in place of the standard cost. That's not kosher - I don't want players being forced to design their own DS to stay competitive, which is why I keep saying that small craft designs are fluff only. The $7.2B you spent can buy you 24 DropShips, not 36. If you want to modify your turn accordingly, feel free, but otherwise I'll assume you just bought 24 standard designs.

- The sequence of events has followed canon fairly closely thus far, but I'm noticing some butterflies start to creep in - for example, there are two fights this turn that didn't happen in canon, one caused by the existence of the MH and the other caused by the CC winning the tech roll. I expect that more such changes will come up over time. Right now, my feeling is that I want to keep many of the big events similar, and to keep the general spirit of the BT universe, but the details are likely to change more as we go along. How do you guys feel about that? I can embrace the butterflies or try to squish them if there's a consensus in either direction.

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #499 on: 16 July 2018, 08:46:40 »
I'm most of the way through writing up the turn, so you can expect it soon-ish. There's also a few things I wanted to mention as side notes, so I'll post those now.

- It's becoming clear to me that one turn per week is a pace that I cannot realistically maintain for the long term. I'll try to keep it as close as I can, but turns will probably take longer than a week most of the time.

- Maingunnery, I only just noticed that you used the costs from your custom DropShip design in place of the standard cost. That's not kosher - I don't want players being forced to design their own DS to stay competitive, which is why I keep saying that small craft designs are fluff only. The $7.2B you spent can buy you 24 DropShips, not 36. If you want to modify your turn accordingly, feel free, but otherwise I'll assume you just bought 24 standard designs.

- The sequence of events has followed canon fairly closely thus far, but I'm noticing some butterflies start to creep in - for example, there are two fights this turn that didn't happen in canon, one caused by the existence of the MH and the other caused by the CC winning the tech roll. I expect that more such changes will come up over time. Right now, my feeling is that I want to keep many of the big events similar, and to keep the general spirit of the BT universe, but the details are likely to change more as we go along. How do you guys feel about that? I can embrace the butterflies or try to squish them if there's a consensus in either direction.

1.)  Once Per Week:  Take as long as you need to.  Keep eyes open for ways in which the players can take over things you find time consuming and which do not need you to do them.  Its early days of a marathon, not a sprint.  Budget energy accordingly.  Heads up when we can be looking for a turn to post may help keep us from wearing out the 'refresh' button on the website.

2.)  Butterflies:  I am firmly in favor, for several reasons:
   a.)  Player Engagement:  If the Hand of God is keeping us all on track, then while we are having fun making spaceships, our
   impact on the future of our star nation is effectively 0 - so I am less engaged/enthused.

   b.)  Realism:  Similar to a, above - If I know what dates my wars happen, what dates the SL falls, etc - then it becomes
   difficult to budget and design without that foreknowledge affecting us.  As an example, one could spend a few turns building up
   yards, a few more building the best hulls from those larger yards, and the last few turns before the war going crazy on training,
   all to maximize punch when the war happens.  Obviously we should and will try to close our eyes and separate OOC and IC
   knowledge, but all the easier to do so when that OOC knowledge is fuzzy and increasingly inaccurate.

   c.)  FUN:  What if the Hindu Collective never merges, but becomes a 6th, significant, Inner Sphere Power? What if the Star
   League doesnt fall?  What if it does, and we can prevent the death of the warship, or for that matter the death of the Inner
   Sphere Tech Base?  What if Kerensky's Children return only to be greeted by glistening lines of battle made of hundreds of 2MT
   Dreadnoughts, trained and hardened by centuries of conflict that never rises to the level of 'nuking everyone back to the stone
   age?'  (The last may top my personal wishlist.  The Wolf's Dragoons arrive, look around, and then go home and say 'Hey, guys? 
   Lets move FURTHER from the 'Sphere.  Its scary, there...'

Now, the downside - once we diverge from cannon, everything we produce becomes less useful/of interest to the question 'what navies would the Houses have realistically built in canon'.  But it also suggests 'if the houses follow a realistic naval policy, we dont get Canon.'

Maingunnery

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #500 on: 16 July 2018, 11:36:24 »

Corrected the DS spending to 12 standards.
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Smegish

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #501 on: 16 July 2018, 15:02:50 »
Better to go at a pace you can maintain then burn out after 2-3 months. Take the time you need.

As to the butterflies, maybe keep the BIG wars as per canon, but allow us to have smaller fights like what went on during the 3rd Succession War when we feel like it. The trick there of course would be preventing those kind of raids from escalating, but we can burn that bridge when we come to it.

Jester Motley

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #502 on: 16 July 2018, 17:47:37 »
Turns as/when they happen is fine.  We're all presumably adults here with family and work obligations, things come up.

I prefer Butterflies.  Lots of butterflies.  Though, to be fair, part of me is hoping for that to keep the CC from being a chew toy for Marik and Davion.  But honestly, the more influence we have on how things go, the more fun and engaging this is.  If I just wanted to build a "coherent and real" navy for an IS house, I could do that on my own.  But if we're going to get properly organic growth navies, we need things to happen so we can grow, and things to change because of our actions, otherwise... there's no point.

Kiviar

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« Last Edit: 16 July 2018, 19:35:00 by Kiviar »

Kiviar

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #504 on: 16 July 2018, 19:30:19 »
herp


Kiviar

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #506 on: 16 July 2018, 21:00:19 »
Well, thats ONE way to keep Hanse around...

Tbh, he needed to go, but I would have been happier with his death if it hadn't led to some of the worst stories in Battletech.
« Last Edit: 16 July 2018, 21:02:04 by Kiviar »

marcussmythe

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #507 on: 16 July 2018, 21:44:51 »
Tbh, he needed to go, but I would have been happier with his death if it hadn't led to some of the worst stories in Battletech.

I wouldnt know.  Im intentionally ignoring all of BT history starting at the F-C Civil War.

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #508 on: 17 July 2018, 13:36:15 »
Butterflies it is!

Turn 3: 2370-2379

Previous turn: 2360-2369

Player Turns:
Lyran Commonwealth: Budget $85B. (Fluff, Budget)
Free Worlds League: Budget $108B.
Draconis Combine: Budget $110B.
Federated Suns: Budget $105B.
Capellan Confederation: Budget $82B.
Marian Hegemony: Budget $12B.

NPC Turns:
Terran Hegemony: Budget $760B.
United Hindu Collective: Budget $21B.
Rim Worlds Republic: Budget $23B.
Taurian Concordat: Budget $12B.

Events
(I'm going to try writing this up in a timeline format this turn, instead of dividing battles and political events, because there's a few that straddle the line.)
2370:
Still torn on whether the planet of Taurus is a pirate base, a Capellan colony, or something else entirely, the Davions send a naval task force to investigate. Two Albions and a Galahad are dispatched with orders to ensure that nothing in the sector poses a threat to the Federated Suns. When the fleet arrives, it causes a major stir on Taurus - while the previous visit led to a change in Taurian priorities, their fortifications are still grossly incomplete, and their navy has nothing that can go toe-to-toe with a monster like the Galahad.

At first, the visit goes somewhat peacefully - Admiral Hasek is competent and courteous, and it soon becomes clear that the local settlement is its own polity, not a Capellan effort to outflank the Suns or a hive of piracy. However, things begin to go south when the Davion fleet realizes that the ship which led the Tentativa raid a decade earlier was in system, and upon investigation they realize that they had finally found the origin of the mysterious "liberators" who had absconded with a full division of captured Capellan soldiers. After some deliberation, Admiral Hasek issues an ultimatum to the Taurians - as the freed soldiers killed several guards in their escape and were then used by the Capellans in combat which killed hundreds of Federated Suns peacekeepers, it was demanded that the Taurians pay reparations to the families of the deceased, that they issue a formal apology for their unlawful interference in the internal affairs of another realm, and that the captain responsible stand trial in New Avalon for the crimes of inciting to riot, numerous weapons smuggling charges, and eight counts of manslaughter.

The Taurians, like many outgunned nations in human history, stalled for time and attempted to compromise. The compensation and apology were grudgingly accepted as being reasonable, but offering up the heroic Ashton Pendelton for trial on charges that could land her in jail for the rest of her life, especially when the captors were as barbarous as the Federated Suns had been on Tentativa, was simply too much for the government to accept. A petition demanding that Pendelton be protected was signed by fully three percent of the population of Taurus within the first day, and two astonishingly brave citizens approached the Taurian government with offers to falsely assume her identity and stand trial in her place.

The Taurian counter-offer was as conciliatory as it could be without destroying the nation - they gave the apology freely before hearing whether their counter-proposal was accepted, offered the requested compensation, and suggested Pendelton face trial under Federated Suns law on Taurus with Admiral Hasek's legal attache as one of the three presiding judges. Even this was enough to cause a gigantic protest outside Protector Richard Calderon's mansion, but he held firm in his conviction that any less would guarantee a devastating conflict. However, fearing the worst, Calderon also raised the entire Taurian military to high alert and ordered all assets in system be prepared for a strike against the Davion fleet if necessary. Sadly, it proved necessary. Hasek felt that any trial where 2/3 of the judges were Taurian would be a sham, and last-minute efforts to compromise went nowhere.

When the ultimatum expired, the Federated Suns fleet did not attack civilian population centres as they had threatened to do. Instead, they targeted their efforts at the military installations of the Concordat. The main Taurian shipyard complex was in orbit with only minimal defences available, as the Marathon-class defensive stations were still under construction. However, the month that had elapsed between the fleet entering Taurus space and the expiry of the ultimatum had allowed for some last-minute weapon installation, and the fighters of the Concordat were ready and waiting, along with the two horribly out-gunned Independence-class destroyers. The Admiral Blauser, commanding the TCS Independence, attempted to close the range and launch some pot-shots from outside effective range of the Davion ships, and his reputation as a brutal taskmaster meant that nobody on his staff was willing to challenge this decision. The initial salvoes went fairly well, killing five fighters and destroying one of the Galahad's forward gun turrets, but the Independence had neither the mobility nor the armour for a fight like this - as soon as it started closing, the Davions accelerated towards it, and within less than a minute it was a bleeding, crippled wreck. Fortunately for the Taurians, Blauser's flag bridge had been pulverized in the attack, and the senior surviving officer had enough common sense to order the evacuation. Unfortunately, the next-ranking Taurian officer was Vice-Admiral Bream, the commander of the shipyard complex, who had been placed in that position specifically because his logistical skills far exceeded his combat skills. Nervous and indecisive, he recalled the remaining destroyer and ordered the fighters to stay close to the base for the right moment.

The right moment came ten minutes later, as the Davion fleet slowly advanced towards effective range of the station so they could begin begin laying down fire. The attack was actually launched five minutes after that, once the shells began raining down on the shipyard complex. The incomplete battle stations managed to muster almost two hundred missile tubes and two dozen lasers between them, and three hundred fighters also carried their own missiles. The two Albions acted as escorts to the Galahad, shooting down most of the missiles aimed towards it, but in their efforts to protect the flagship they had left their own defences open, and both suffered badly for their decision. The FSS New Scotland lost her primary fire control computer and had her fighter bays scoured by incoming fire, but she got off lucky compared to her sister ship. The FSS Snowden had her entire forward section opened up like a tin can, and lost over half her crew in an eyeblink. While the hull would drift through space, and the aft gunners engaged a few nearby Taurian fighters with some success, the ship played no major role in the fighting thereafter.

With the escort frigates unable to play an effective role in the fighting, defence of the Galahad fell to the fleet's DropShips. The fighters, now devoid of their missiles, fell on the DropShips and attempted to destroy them with cannon fire. The heavy naval armour did not yield easily to the light shells, especially on the two that had been equipped with the advanced armour compounds that had recently come into service, but it did yield. While the DropShips and the remaining guns of the fleet engaged the fighters aggressively, they were insufficient to stop the swarm by themselves, and the Davion fleet had carried relatively few of the mass-intensive fighters to Taurus with them, and the fleet still needed to deal with the incoming missile fire from the stations. The Taurians bled for their victories, but they swarmed down DropShip after DropShip, and when four had fallen the remaining three fell back to the defensive envelope of the Galahad to regroup. Fortunately for the Davions, the Galahad had finally gained the range on the defensive stations, and all of the ones that had produced effective fire were silenced by the time the DropShips fell back. Seeing the fixed defences shattered, the Taurian fighters broke off their attack and returned to the planet-side bases to re-arm for a strike that would hopefully stop the monstrous cruiser, and the remaining Independence fell back as well.

Seeing their only ship construction facility defenceless before the enemy, and seeing his own life flash before his eyes, Vice-Admiral Bream requested a surrender. Admiral Hasek's response was simply to re-send the ultimatum that Calderon had refused prior. However, Bream's flag lieutenant had noticed something in the chaos of the fighting - Pendelton was still a serving officer, and she had been serving as a liason with the ship construction group in orbit. The core facilities of Taurian naval R&D had been hit by the Davion barrage, and it was likely that the "notorious criminal" was dead in the fighting. A cease-fire was officially rejected by Hasek, but the fire from his ship slowed momentarily, and an urgent order went through the Taurian damage control parties to find Pendelton. Her suit's emergency beacon was located within a minute, and a fighter flying by was ordered to investigate - sure enough, her corpse was floating away from the station. The footage was broadcast to the Galahad, and Admiral Hasek issued the recall order to his ships, who had no further need to fight.

Before leaving, the Taurians agreed to a substantial increase to the reparations owed for dead Davion soldiers - over three hundred men and women had died in the fighting, and that alone was judged to require nearly a billion dollars of compensation. But their facilities had been spared, as had much of their fleet. The high-handed demands of Admiral Hasek led to lasting resentment among the Taurians, and the footage of Pendelton's corpse was rapidly leaked to an enraged Taurian populace. She received a heroine's burial, and the shipyard that had been saved by her death was named in her honor. But the realm had survived an engagement with its vastly more powerful neighbour, and it prepared for the next fight it would face.

Losses:
Federated Suns: 1x Albion, 4x DropShip, 23x fighter, moderate damage to fleet totalling $2B. Gains: $1B from reparations.
Taurian Concordat: 1x Independence, 3x Marathon, 105x fighter, substantial damage to shipyard totalling $3B.

2371:
Reynard Davion's old case of Black Marsh Fever comes back with a vengeance, laying him low and eventually killing him. His son Etien takes over, and the transition marks the first time that one Davion replaces another as President of the Federated Suns without any serious questions being raised in the process. Etien is initially well-liked by most, and managed a few substantial successes in his first few months in office, including ceasefires with both the Capellans and the Taurians, though brain damage from old injuries causes increasing issues with mood swings over time.

2372:
Development of a new technique to attack planets convinced the Capellan high command that it was time to make good the brutal losses that their realm had suffered in recent decades. The most high-profile of those losses was Andurien, and the Federated Suns seem to have buried the hatchet for the time being, so the Capellan admiralty developed a plan of attack to retake the Andurien sector. Since the new designs being added by the fleet re-construction program were still incomplete, the naval forces available for this operation were extremely scanty, consisting of only three destroyers, one raider, and one transport. As such, the fleet's doctrine was to avoid a direct battle unless they had crushing superiority, and instead to use their acceleration advantage to disengage if necessary.

A gaggle of civilian JumpShips were rounded up and pressed into service for a massive wave of simultaneous attacks against the Andurien sector. Four worlds were chosen as targets for the first wave, with the expectation that the enemy fleet would react and open Andurien itself(which their intelligence had suggested was the forward base for ships in the sector) for attack. The attacks on those four worlds went shockingly well - facing defenders who were more used to acting as police than soldiers, and who were expecting a traditional battle plan of DropShips landing in semi-isolated areas and troops fighting their way forward, the combat drops that Capellan troops engaged in caught them wildly off-guard. On Shiro III in particular, the tanks landed in the middle of a large park in the planet's capital city, and the Marik troops were overrun before they'd even formed up to leave their barracks.

Sure enough, the Marik fleet stirred from its base to attack the invaders as soon as they'd heard of the attacks. A force of three Heracles battlecruisers and one Phalanx escort jumped to Lurgatan's zenith point, and found only one Marik merchant JumpShip desperately trying to recharge their sails while the invaders flew in from the nadir. Realizing that they couldn't overhaul the invaders, they elected to recharge quickly and try to catch the invaders at Conquista, but disaster struck when the Phalanx-class FWLS Sarissa failed to arrive after the fleet made its jump. The effort to quickly charge the jump drive had caused damage to the K-F system, and when the jump was attempted, the entire system shorted out and caused catastrophic damage to the ship's K-F drive coil. The Sarissa was not substantially harmed in the process, but it was no longer capable of interstellar travel.

The three remaining Heracles landed in Conquista as the Capellan forces were jumping out, and concerned about another drive failure the Mariks waited out a more cautious drive recharge before their next move. The captain of the Sarissa, conversely, reacted fairly quickly to the disaster that overtook his ship, taking it deeper into the system to attempt to repel the invaders. He arrived after the planet was largely taken, but while the local FWL troops were still engaged in active resistance against the invaders. With no Capellan capital ships in system, he thought he would be able to dominate the surface as past WarShips had been able to do - with only capital missiles, he would not be able to target all points of Capellan resistance, but it was hoped that a show of force would increase the morale of the defenders, and that attacks on a few key points would allow them a real chance, or at least to hold out until relief arrived.

The Capellans saw the Sarissa coming, and made their own preparations. The captain in charge, Jiang-jun Yuan Yin, saw the perfect chance to test out the new Capellan fighter doctrine, and took it. The fighters which had accompanied the fleet, along with a few DropShips that were equipped for military operations, formed to attack the Sarissa about half an hour from the planet. The Sarissa's fighters were held close as a defence, but 18 defensive fighters were a poor match for the 153 Capellan that came from the planet to launch their attack. Knowing that the Phalanx design was poorly equipped for anti-fighter work at any but the shortest ranges, the Capellans came closer than they otherwise would, and launched their missiles in a gigantic wave to clear away the Marik fighters. The Marik defensive reaction was excellent - the fighters fell back to the point defence umbrella of the Phalanx, and the point-defence gunners took out nearly three-quarters of the inbound missiles. Only nine fighters died, much to the astonishment of both sides, and the Marik missiles that took out eight Liao fighters and one DropShip that had been targeted by a barrage of Killer Whales from the Sarissa. However, as the missiles were flying, a terrible chain reaction took place on the Sarissa. One freak shot had landed near the fuel tanks, and the leaking fuel combined with the ship's atmosphere formed an explosive combination. Two minutes after the missile hit, mere moments after the force was celebrating the destruction of the DropShip, a spark ignited the atmosphere inside the Sarissa, and the ship blew itself up. The remaining fighters also surrendered themselves, and when word reached the planet of what the gigantic explosion they had seen overhead actually was, the remaining Marik forces laid down their arms.

Unaware of this disaster, the three Heracles moved on to a pirate point in Shiro, where they once again missed the attacking fleet, but this time they moved towards the planet to bombard the Capellan troops. Some damage was caused, but not enough to dislodge the Capellans. Meanwhile, the Capellans had moved on to Andurien itself, where a harder fight awaited their troops. With some of their forces held back to hold the conquered planets, they lacked the forces for a true knockout punch, and the defenders were aware of the possibility of a lightning invasion. The fighting was lengthy, but with substantial fire support from the fleet, along with a re-embarkation of troops from a pacified area and an unexpected combat drop into the middle of a Marik stronghold two weeks into the fighting, the Capellans won through. The Free Worlds League fleet arrived back at Andurien two days after the surrender frustrated with their inability to find the enemy, and eagerly anticipated a battle when they saw the Liao fleet over the planet. But when they realized that the Phalanx had been lost, their base had been captured, and the enemy fleet had been able to establish bases for a substantial fighter force, they elected to return home and await reinforcements.

In the end, the campaign ended with the Liao forces re-taking five of the seven worlds they had lost a few years prior, though two worlds were lost to a Marik counterattack further north. But Andurien had been re-taken, and the sounds of joyous celebration were heard across the Commonwealth.

Losses:
Free Worlds League: 1x Phalanx, 6x small craft, 18x fighter
Capellan Confederation: 1x DropShip, 71x fighter (the remainder were off-screen losses in the conquest of the planets)

2373:
The Lyran Commonwealth has on paper been the second-richest human nation, behind only the Terrans, since its founding. However, mismanagement, corruption, and chaos among the nine Archons of the Commonwealth has led to a chronic inability to turn this paper wealth into the sinews of a powerful nation. In fact, the chaos was threatening to tear the newly-founded nation apart as sepratist movements affected the main constituent nations of Tamar, Donegal, and Skye.

Robert Marsden Jr., the youngest of the Archons, finally got fed up with this state of affairs in the early 2370s. Over time, Marsden managed to accumulate proof of significant corruption on the part of all eight of the other Archons, and on a series of "fact-finding trips" around the realm he made contacts with military leaders and system governors who were interested in change. He struck after a meeting of the Archons - using trusted naval vessels as couriers, he released the information on the crimes of the other Archons to the whole realm while the Archons were in transit to their homeworlds. In one rather astonishing case, Margaret Tamar, Archon of Tamar, returned home on a Heimdaller that "just happened to be" in transit to the fleet base at Tamar, and was led to believe that there was a failure of the ship's communication systems. In fact, that ship was the one broadcasting information on the crimes of the Archons to every system that she passed through, while she was effectively being held incommunicado until her arrival.

Relying on the wave of disgust that these revelations would engender, Marsden declared himself "Archon Basileus" and announced a significant restructuring of the Lyran government to give himself all of the relevant levers of power in the realm, while allowing individual worlds to be mostly self-governing aside from their military obligations. The decision was not quite as well-received as he hoped, and murmurings of discontent were heard on some worlds who worried that the original Lyran vision was being abandoned for a feudal dictatorship, but on the whole the initial consolidation of power went well, and no serious forces rose up in immediate opposition.

2374:
After realizing that control of the orbitals did not always translate into full control of the planet, the Marian Hegemony engaged in a construction program to bring a new form of comprehensive Latin education to the Lothians. While only resulting in a single ship, that ship was capable of hauling substantial amounts of war material to the surface, and the full coffers of the Hegemony ensured that she would be well stocked in the process. However, the ship's first use was civil, not military - instead of carrying tanks to the surface, the Impetum Onerariam carried ambulances, relief supplies, and construction equipment to help rebuild the damage of the invasion. At the same time, the Lothians were courted by several moves intended to signal that they would be equals in the new Hegemony, instead of mere serfs.

Reaction to these efforts were mixed. Some, especially those in the educated urban-dwelling classes, greatly appreciated the gestures made by the Marians, and media coverage of the Hegemony grew markedly better in short order. However, among the hard-bitten miners and trappers that made up the bulk of Lothario's population, the moves were viewed with suspicion - they had grown comfortable ignoring the dictates of their off-world "ruler", and were worried that this might signal an end to their hard-won independence. Overall, the icy planet seemed to be thawing somewhat, but it was still far from accustomed to foreign rule.

2375:
In the Lyran Commonwealth, unhappiness at Robert Marsden's actions had been brewing for a year and a half. While it was generally agreed that the old Archons had been incompetent, malicious, and corrupt, many believed that Marsden himself was only differentiated from them by being competent in his malice. The promise of economic growth spurred by competent governance had yet to materialize, and many planets who still believed in the ideal of the Commonwealth were deeply upset with his rule. Skye had declared independence in late 2374, and the floodgates were opened by seeing a real crack in the foundations of his rule - almost two dozen planets declared independence, professed fealty to a deposed Archon, or otherwise rejected the Articles of Acceptance.

Marsden reacted decisively. 14 of the rebellious worlds were incapable of sustaining themselves for long without imported food or other necessities, and the Lyran navy was dispatched to blockade them until they gave up their struggle. Since few planets kept their own defensive forces capable of space travel, none could break the blockades, and most caved in within six months. The remaining eight were basically self-sufficient, and thus immune to the worst effects of a blockade. Marsden was not one to shy away from direct action when it proved necessary, however, and he dispatched the Army to restore order. One by one the rebellious worlds were crushed by forces loyal to Marsden, and as it became clear that he would brook no open resistance, the supply of newly rebellious planets dried up rapidly. Last to fall was Skye itself, seed of the rebellion and the old capital(and self-proclaimed new capital) of the Federation of Skye. Twelve regiments were brought in to decisively smash the rebels, and the rebel leader, Robert McQuinston, was gruesomely executed for treason.

The cost imposed by the rebellion had been high - over a million civilians died due to the privations of the blockade and open warfare in Lyran cities, and trade was disrupted badly for almost two years. But a grudging respect for the heavy-handed Marsden also developed - the nation had suffered from indecision for so long that many people called out for a decisive leader, even if he was brutal. While citizens of worlds like Skye cursed Marsden as "The Crusher", many citizens used the epithet with a strange form of respect. Despite condemnations from both inside and outside the Commonwealth, Marsden's rule grew more secure than ever.

2376:
After the reign of terror of the Kurita military overlords on the former Rasalhague worlds, new embers of rebellion flare up in early 2376. On the world of Rasalhague, a home-grown group of terrorists assault the governor's palace. Their attack goes off spectacularly well, and district governor Vladimir Kurita, a nephew of the Coordinator, is slaughtered along with his entire family. Vising Vladimir at the time was the Coordinator's sister Omi, who also died in the attack. The rebels are caught by security forces and slaughtered to a man, but when news reaches Tenno Kurita that his sister has died, he is horribly distraught. After his sister's body arrives at the capital, he begins questioning his own ability to govern - if he can't protect his own sister, after all, how could he protect the Combine? Tenno's son and heir Nihongi quietly encourages these thoughts, and shortly after the state funeral is concluded, Tenno commits seppuku. Nihongi finally accedes to the throne he has desired for his whole life, and uses the immense power that is his as Coordinator of the Draconis Combine to ensure that he is not bothered excessively while he breeds horses.

2377:
Etien Davion's mood swings and aggressive impulses had grown steadily harder to control for those around him as the years moved on. His courtiers had lost the ability to influence him substantially, his immediate family were sent into virtual exile to prevent them from organizing against him, and even his wife, the one person who had proven herself able to check his worst traits, was unceremoniously divorced in 2376. As Etien grew worse, rebellion brewed. Chesterton erupted in violence as a pro-Capellan mob attacked the governor's mansion, the governor of Alsek secretly entered negotiations to join the United Hindu Collective, and even Covington, one of the founding planets of the Federated Suns, attempted to hold an independence referendum. The latter proved too much for Etien - he ordered an invasion of Covington, and sentenced every member of the planetary assembly to death for their treason. As such, the first shots fired in anger by the mighty FSS Crucis were aimed at against one of the oldest worlds in Crucis. As the planetary assembly met late into the evening to discuss strategies for negotiating with the leader of the task force, the entire capitol building was shattered by the impact of a single, solitary autocannon shell. And when the citizens of Covington looked up into the night sky, they knew that the stars held fear.

2378:
With Etien Davion's mood swings, hedonistic impulses, and hair-trigger brutality getting out of control, two assassination attempts are launched in 2378. The first fails well before it can attack, but the second gets much closer. Jeremiah Monroe, an old friend of Davion's from his military days, had come to the conclusion that Davion was unfit to govern, and that the man he had been in his youth would rather be dead than to be the man that he had become. Unable to get a gun into his old friend's presence due to paranoiac security, Monroe carried a knife taken from a Capellan they had fought together on the world of Lee, ostensibly as a gift for his old friend. Before he could present the knife, Monroe challenged Davion on his actions in recent years, trying to see if he could snap Etien out of his madness before making the final plunge. When an argument ensued, Monroe pulled the knife and attempted to kill Etien.

Etien's guards responded too quickly, and he escaped with no injury. However, Etien Davion was not quite so well as he seemed at first. He stared at his old friend's bleeding corpse, he stared at the knife, and he said not a word to anyone until several minutes had passed. Finally, he opened his mouth - "If Jeremiah Monroe hates me that much, then no-one will hate me any more", picked up the knife, and slashed his own throat before his shocked guards could react. While there were occasional ugly rumours about how serious the paramedics were with their attempts to save Etien's life, the general consensus is that no medical team could have saved him from that much blood loss under the circumstances. In his place, his sickly brother Paul took the Presidency.

2379:
Worried about resource depletion on their long-mined core worlds, Director-General Margaret Cameron was looking for options to use advanced Terran Hegemony terraforming technology to open up new supplies of resources. While few good candidate worlds existed within the Hegemony's borders, many existed in neighbouring realms. The Hegemony has traditionally taken a hands-off approach to the outer realms, but the desire for secure resource supplies has led to a large number of Terran officials advocating a more active foreign policy to ensure that the chaos of the outer realms does not adversely affect the Terran economy. After significant internal debate between traditionalists and activists, Director-General Cameron decided to advance a proposal for "Jointly Owned Worlds" to the neighbouring realms. Under the proposal, the Terrans would offer the technology, the outer realms would offer the real estate, and the two would equally split both costs and resource wealth from the development of the worlds. The outer realms would retain sovereignty over the planets, but that sovereignty would be subject to a set of rules based on the Terran Bill of Rights, regardless of the constitutional laws of the nation holding sovereignty. Most notably, an extremely strong set of contractual and land-ownership rights would be mandated by these rules, and would in practice allow Terran firms to control the Terran half of the planetary resources, and any settlements that spring up nearby, effectively in perpetuity.

Action Item: You, as naval chiefs of your respective realms, will be consulted by your national leaders on the merits of this proposal. You will not have the final say, but your views will be considered. Basically, I'll roll a die, but it'll be biased towards whichever option you prefer. If the proposal passes, economic development of these worlds will likely improve the financial state of your realm in the long run, and it may lead to some technology falling into your hands in the process(though none of the one-per-turn research techs, only background fluff techs). However, it will also improve the state of the Hegemony, it will effectively them advance bases for scouting or deployment if they ever choose to get aggressive towards you, and it will establish a precedent of dividing your realm's sovereignty in that you might later regret. Canonically, the LC and FS said yes immediately, and the DC/CC/FWL also agreed several decades down the line - in total, it developed 20 worlds within the first few decades and over 100 within a century. However, I wanted to give you some say in the matter. Note that this offer is only open to the realms immediately bordering the Hegemony - the Marians, Taurians, Rim Worlders, and United Hindus are not able to take advantage of this proposal at the current time. (Sorry Truetanker)
« Last Edit: 18 July 2018, 06:20:23 by Alsadius »

Alsadius

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Re: Group Design Challenge: WarShip Arms Race
« Reply #509 on: 17 July 2018, 13:36:27 »
Research
DC: $3,915m
FS: $464m
CC: $71m

TH: $8,101m
UHC: $426m
TC: $363m
RWR: $476m

TOTAL = $13,816m

The winner is the Terran Hegemony, gaining Naval PPCs. Vehicular drop chutes are now available to all nations.

Budgets
Note that I'm not going to specifically cite "economic growth" as a reason for budgetary changes henceforth - assume it's constantly happening in the background. As a result, some nations(e.g., the DC this turn) may see budget increases while the stated explanation is negative.
CC: $89B, due to reconquest.
DC: $111B, due to poor administration.
FS: $98B. Note that I set the FS budget erroneously high last turn. Their turn 1-2 budget was $90B, so turn 3 should have been $95B. I won't punish Kiviar for my error, but that's why it's dropping this turn and being treated as an increase.
FWL: $104B, due to lost territory.
LC: $93B, due to greatly improved organization, offset by some damage in rebellions.
MH: $12B, as increased tax revenue from Lothario makes up for the loss of loot.

TH: $765B
UHC: $23B
RWR: $24B
TC: $12B, as emergency spending continues.