PA(L) Formations?

[Goose]

A buddy of mine is wondering why PA(L) platoons haven't displaced PBI, if only 'cause every-man becomes a support gunner, instead of a riflemen.

If you are already into infantry lasers, is it not the next step to use those batteries for PA(L)s?

[Empyrus]

Rules-wise, one can't mix infantry and battle armor (including PA(L)s).
In-universe, PA(L)s aren't very common, with only few options compared to heavier BA designs, and outfitting large numbers of infantry with PA(L)s is expensive and logistically problematic. While affording all those suits is less of an issue, maintaining them is, do you train every single infantry man fixing their own suit? Logically, basically all factions figure it is better to get limited amount of specialized but far better battle armor than equip basic infantry with powered armor. PA(L)s are left for specops types, and even then most factions don't seem to bother.
EDIT Also transporting infantry equipped with up to 400+kg of equipment is far more difficult than infantry with just 40kgish of equipment.

[Retry]

The answer is cost.

At least it would be, if conventional infantry didn't have a really weird C-bill cost formula that makes medium and high-end PBIs more expensive than most Heavy and Assault battle suits unless you abuse the crap out of the infantry construction rules.

[Wolf72]

If you go optional rules, your PA(L) only take up .25 tons per trooper ... you could get a squad of 6 for 1.5 tons.  A full 4 squad platoon for 6 tons.

That would at least help you replace some PBI.  Keep in mind, a max of 3 pts of dmg (2+1 for trooper) is all a single PA(L) can take.  A clan PPC will mow down 5 in one blast.  And other BA main weapons are usually more than enough to take a PA(L) down (reg SL).

But I do love them! They make cool fluffy under-dog troops.

[Retry]

If you go optional rules, your PA(L) only take up .25 tons per trooper ... you could get a squad of 6 for 1.5 tons.  A full 4 squad platoon for 6 tons.

That would at least help you replace some PBI.  Keep in mind, a max of 3 pts of dmg (2+1 for trooper) is all a single PA(L) can take.  A clan PPC will mow down 5 in one blast.  And other BA main weapons are usually more than enough to take a PA(L) down (reg SL).

But I do love them! They make cool fluffy under-dog troops.

There's no "bleed-off" against BA.  A cPPC hits 1 PAL and vaporizes it, but the damage is not transferred to the next suit, nor the one after that.

[Wolf72]

There's no "bleed-off" against BA.  A cPPC hits 1 PAL and vaporizes it, but the damage is not transferred to the next suit, nor the one after that.

ooooh! good to know.  Do the weapons that hit still hit trooper 1 first, then move on to 2 after 1 has been eliminated? With no carryover other than possible weapon hits.

[dgorsman]

In all cases, each separate hit (either weapon, LRM cluster, SRM, etc.) against BA rolls for which individual trooper it applies to.  Currently once a trooper is eliminated it's no longer a valid target.  Used to be you kept rolling regardless, at one point had a single elemental absorb most of the fire from a Firemoth H.

[Greatclub]

ooooh! good to know.  Do the weapons that hit still hit trooper 1 first, then move on to 2 after 1 has been eliminated? With no carryover other than possible weapon hits.

Here. Have an article about how to kill BA, AKA how battle armor dies.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,14235.0.html

[Wolf72]

Very nice read.  Hah, just thinking of my poor PA(L) design with 1 pt of armor (+1 trooper) getting hit by a MG array or someone using an optional MG burst.  (why one point? gotta represent the under-teched and under resourced!)

[Colt Ward]

I do not think PA(L) fall victim to AI 'burst' weapons?

BUT . . . they can fall victim to BA that mount weapons which under TacOps are more effective against other BA- like the King David LGR or Trinity suit's Plasma weapon.

[Weirdo]

Don't think he was talking about best damage. You don't need the burst damage to take out his hypothetical PA(L) with a machine gun. :)

[Wolf72]

Don't think he was talking about best damage. You don't need the burst damage to take out his hypothetical PA(L) with a machine gun. :)

That is correct.  If you use the 2d6 (not vs infantry) rule from TO.  (wait a sec, looking it up again ... ) Oops! Rapid fire mode -- generates 1d6 heat, x3 result for ammo use.  Roll a 6, mow down one of my poor squads!

[Weirdo]

That 1d6 damage is still just in one damage group, so it cannot take out more than one suit at a time. If you roll a 1, a single trooper is extremely lucky. If you roll anything else at all, that trooper's condition ranges from Dead to Very Dead to Closed Teaspoon Funeral. In every single case, everybody else in the squad is fine (physically). Unless there's more then one machine gun.

[Daryk]

"Closed Teaspoon Funeral" wins this thread!  :D

[Colt Ward]

That 1d6 damage is still just in one damage group, so it cannot take out more than one suit at a time. If you roll a 1, a single trooper is extremely lucky. If you roll anything else at all, that trooper's condition ranges from Dead to Very Dead to Closed Teaspoon Funeral. In every single case, everybody else in the squad is fine (physically). Unless there's more then one machine gun.

Huh?  I thought it performed like a SRM, scattering the 2 point hits across the squad.  IIRC the damage, unless linked to an array, against a mech also scatters over locations?

Dang it I cannot find the page in TacOps for which weapons does what damage with the optional vs other BA rule.  It is a nice buff for some of the weaker BA weapons.

[Wolf72]

That 1d6 damage is still just in one damage group, ...

well, poop! ...

wait, wait ... POP! goes the Power Armor.

[Weirdo]

Huh?  I thought it performed like a SRM, scattering the 2 point hits across the squad.  IIRC the damage, unless linked to an array, against a mech also scatters over locations?

No. Against all targets that are not conventional infantry, machine guns set to rapid fire do 1d6 damage in a single hit, not 1d6 2-point hits. Against conventional infantry, the damage is identical to normal fire. If your rapid-fire machine guns have a nonzero chance of dealing less damage than normal machine guns, you're doing it right.

[Colt Ward]

I thought they also rolled a # of hits with each of those hits possibly being a different location?  Skimmed the TacOps rule (but I think its a old version) on my Kindle as I was looking for the BA weapon page number.

[dgorsman]

Dang it I cannot find the page in TacOps for which weapons does what damage with the optional vs other BA rule.  It is a nice buff for some of the weaker BA weapons.

Pg. 109

[Weirdo]

I thought they also rolled a # of hits with each of those hits possibly being a different location?  Skimmed the TacOps rule (but I think its a old version) on my Kindle as I was looking for the BA weapon page number.

A single D6 is rolled. The result is the total damage you will deal to a single location, the heat you incur, and 1/3rd the ammo you expend. That's the sum total of the procedure for a rapid-fire machine gun.