Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III

[Feenix74]

No drop-bears in Darwin, the mosquitoes got them all. We breed them big:



That is an Australian one dollar coin, which is 25 mm in diameter (or 0.984252 inches for the imperial types).

To make this post more topical, Boxer undergoing blast testing:

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Are you sure that's not fumigation?  ;)

[grimlock1]

The core vehicle only consists of the drive train, the module bay and in the front the driver compartment and the engine compartment.

Engine compartment on a Boxer with Driver School module:

Driver school module?

Also, Wiki says that the power pack can be swapped out in as little as 20 minutes, in the field.  I presume that they a field depot or FOB.

Wiki's photo of a mission module on blocks shows a cutout in the bulkhead.  Does that connect the driver's compartment to the mission module?

[Feenix74]

Are you sure that's not fumigation?  ;)

That would not even dent a mosquito ;)

[kato]

Driver school module?

For some reason Germany has dedicated variants of armoured vehicles that are designed to teach fresh drivers driving. For vehicles with a dedicated, closed-off driver compartment, these come with a large glass canopy where the instructor sits (with controls that can override the driver). For the Boxer this is realized as a module that holds both the canopy and a passenger compartment (... with actual side windows), mounted on a regular Boxer core vehicle.

Also, Wiki says that the power pack can be swapped out in as little as 20 minutes, in the field.  I presume that they a field depot or FOB.

Field swap-out times for engines in Germany are generally using the crane on an armoured recovery vehicle, typically a Büffel, and while located literally in the field - assuming the Büffel is on site, a spare engine is present (can be carried there by the Büffel) and the tank/vehicle where the engine needs to be changed has been dragged into a somewhat stable, upright position.

Pretty much all German armoured vehicles are built for such hot engine swaps in 20-30 minutes. The Büffel itself is designed such that it can also swap its own engine without assistance.

Wiki's photo of a mission module on blocks shows a cutout in the bulkhead.  Does that connect the driver's compartment to the mission module?

Yeah, the driver's compartment is open to the back. This video shows a module switch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn_WblYc4xk

[grimlock1]

Pretty much all German armoured vehicles are built for such hot engine swaps in 20-30 minutes. The Büffel itself is designed such that it can also swap its own engine without assistance.

That's cute... How do they power the crane once the engine gets disconnected?  Electrics?

I've heard that an engine swap on a F/A-18 can be done in about 40.  When I asked members of a Hornet ground crew if that was accurate, they all laughed.

[kato]

That's cute... How do they power the crane once the engine gets disconnected?  Electrics?

Yep, running on battery. Was the big switch from the BPz2 to the BPz3 model, on the BPz2 the crane apparently still ran mechanically powered by the engine.

Rapid engine swaps on Leopards are a common demonstration exercise for maintenance companies on e.g. open days for the public, often as a timed "we can do this faster" thing - you can find a couple videos on Youtube from that. On a Leo you need to first unscrew the cover plate on top of the engine manually and have the crane remove it to get to the engine; offhand the fastest in those videos take around 9-10 minutes to remove the cover and old engine and around 6-10 for installing the new one to the point where the Leo starts the new engine.

The more realistic field time for swaps i've heard is around 35 minutes on a Leo instead of those 15-20 minute speed runs.

[Feenix74]

This video shows a module switch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn_WblYc4xk

Very nice, I can see why we selected the Boxer CRV-O  8)

[grimlock1]

The more realistic field time for swaps i've heard is around 35 minutes on a Leo instead of those 15-20 minute speed runs.

Yeah, I thought "20 minute engine swap" smelled a bit like a spherical chicken.

[glitterboy2098]

Still, under an hour is pretty impressive in itself.

[Baldur Mekorig]

Dont know why the front of the Boxer makes me remember of the Battletech Striker vee.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That would not even dent a mosquito ;)

So the Australian mosquito is a slightly smaller and less aggressive relative of the Alaskan mosquito, then.

[worktroll]

And once more the Herky-bird demonstrates the truth that "everything is air-droppable, once."

[glitterboy2098]

So the Australian mosquito is a slightly smaller and less aggressive relative of the Alaskan mosquito, then.

the midwestern mosquito might be small, but they've got numbers on their side. and lately, biowarfare..

[Sabelkatten]

Several of my friends did their military service in northern Sweden. We used to joke that the best way to handle our mosquitoes was to drench one guy in insect "repellent", put him in a convenient field, and line up the AA brigade nearby. :D

[worktroll]

Just have me around. I'm mosquito bait. Designated donor. Just like my father before me. The family love that aspect ;)

[kato]

Several of my friends did their military service in northern Sweden. We used to joke that the best way to handle our mosquitoes was to drench one guy in insect "repellent", put him in a convenient field, and line up the AA brigade nearby. :D

North Sweden is harmless. I've been to lakeside cabins in central Sweden, and you basically about notice them there when they start blocking out the sun during their swarm-divebombing...

Around these parts here along the Rhine, we use actual biowarfare by the way. Precision-bombing their breeding grounds, then sending in the infantry to get rid of those that survived that. 300 men and a couple helicopters.

[Fat Guy]

Just have me around. I'm mosquito bait. Designated donor. Just like my father before me. The family love that aspect ;)

Me and you both. Type O blood will do that.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Huh.

[Weirdo]

If they bring back the Hetzer or StuG, I will be so happy...

[glitterboy2098]

looks like a StuG III by way of a Leopard II, with a bit of  Stridsvagn 103 tossed in.

[JarheadEd]

I've heard that an engine swap on a F/A-18 can be done in about 40.  When I asked members of a Hornet ground crew if that was accurate, they all laughed.

It has been done for a foreign military sale demonstration, but it was super artificial. We had all the tools/working engine stands/O Rings/Gaskets/and spare engine lined up. Things that in reality never happen.

We started with a fully closed jet, they started the stopwatch. Time was called once the motor was up and running. It was 40 minutes. Almost as realistic as having a T-90 jump off a ramp and fire the main gun.

Back on topic:

[worktroll]

World of Tanks fan-art. What would be the utility? Now I'm as much of a Jagdpanther fanboy as you'll find, but even I can't see the point.

Now if you had say a 150mm main gun, two part ammo, cassette autoloader, and more sloped armour ... you'd have an expensive but fundamentally useless assault gun.

[kato]

World of Tanks fan-art. What would be the utility? Now I'm as much of a Jagdpanther fanboy as you'll find, but even I can't see the point.

Now if you had say a 150mm main gun, two part ammo, cassette autoloader, and more sloped armour ... you'd have an expensive but fundamentally useless assault gun.

There were considerations for a heavy tank destroyer as a Leopard successor back in the 70s (VT1-2/GVT; below is one of the GVT models). Mostly early concepts with regard to developing a 4th generation tank.



It was basically a casemate tank using twin fixed-forward 120mm guns with autoloaders and a targeting computer which could automatically fire the guns when a designated target would reach the point where it would be ballistically hit while the tank destroyer was on the move.

Project was cancelled in 1979 with its couple prototypes recycling MBT70 or Leo1 hulls.

[Kidd]

If I came across that elsewhere I'd have said "Wow, great photoshop skills"

Now if you had say a 150mm main gun, two part ammo, cassette autoloader, and more sloped armour ... you'd have an expensive but fundamentally useless assault gun.

Or a very low-profile vehicle with thicker armour than anyone else and a gun capable of killing any tank out there APS notwithstanding... sounds like a pretty scary tank-destroyer to me.

Specially if you add a couple soft/hard-kill APS systems on top

[worktroll]

And what threat would it be used against, that wouldn't be better handled by a turretted 120mm?

Face it, the GVT shown made sense in terms of trying to stop the flood of Soviet armour through the Fulda gap. Given the absence of the need to defend your home against insane quantities of armour ... it's a boondoggle.

[Kidd]

Just playing around, you understand:-

A lot of armies are opting for mechanised infantry as the main (some might say "only") manoeuvre unit, employing common IFV families as troop carrier and fire support both. Tanks are really only there to defeat other tanks with their ability to both give and receive heavy KE fire - that is their only real USP over a super-IFV like the Boxer.

That being the case why not dump legacy "MBT" design amd start afresh with the essentials, ie a tank destroyer - equipped with a gun big enough no MBT can stand, armour thick enough to resist return fire from its prey, and all the jammers and APSs and doohickeys needed to out-fight an enemy tank. Its low profile would make it harder to hit and there would be significant cost savings. Their only purpose is to support infantry against an enemy tank threat (though I bet the PBI would soon find uses for that gun.)

The lack of turret is a disadvantage for quickly reacting to contact on the go, I grant that. But how likely is a tank duel on the move these days?

As you say... the tank flood is no longer a major threat. So why not switch over to fully-mechanised infantry armies with multipurpose IFVs, backed by a small number of Tank Destroyers specialised for the role rather than an MBT jack of all trades?

[Kidd]

TIL there was a German antitank vehicle armed with 6 Panzerschrecks and 3 smoke discharger grenades called the Panzerjager Wanze, shown here captured by Soviet troops



I shall think of it as the embarrassing old granddad of the Wiesel TOW - "Back in my day we had to hump SIX missile launchers uphill in the snow!"

[Daryk]

:snip:

As you say... the tank flood is no longer a major threat. :snip:

I think several countries might disagree with that assessment...

[glitterboy2098]

TIL there was a German antitank vehicle armed with 6 Panzerschrecks and 3 smoke discharger grenades called the Panzerjager Wanze, shown here captured by Soviet troops



I shall think of it as the embarrassing old granddad of the Wiesel TOW - "Back in my day we had to hump SIX missile launchers uphill in the snow!"

Proto Ontos.