Author Topic: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.  (Read 6400 times)

Red Pins

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'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« on: 21 June 2023, 01:09:04 »
So, almost done working on the ELM design rules.  Their rules have been re-formatted, updated, folded, spindled, and mutilated, and with the approval of HEBeas, a slightly modified version of the TRO: Syberia rules governing the use of Battlearmor weapons and equipment on vehicles and ELMs allows them to be carried as secondary weapons on ELMs.

So, while I have yet to finish, this is what I have so far; note that these rules are still in flux and may be changed as the design of new ELMs begins next week sometime.

Quote
Extra-Light ‘Mech (ELM) Construction Rules

  Extra-Light ‘Mechs can trace their development to Clan Surf Dragon, whose attempts to create an Infantry battlesuit from Labor Caste exoskeletons were interrupted by the arrival of technical data and production samples of dezClan Wolf’s Elemental Battlearmor.  Because of the crudity of the original work, the project was abandoned in favor of the dezClan suit, and its resources turned to developing a larger, more robust unit capable of destroying an entire Elemental Point.
  A blend of Battlearmor and BattleMech technology, the Joint Development Program released the design specifications for their prototype ELM, the Novice, in 2868.  Continued refinement of ELM technology has resulted in designs from a minimum of 5 tons to a maximum of 19 tons being considered for increased emphasis to counter the revolutionary ProtoMechs introduced by dezClan Smoke Jaguar.

Step 1: Design the Chassis

  Choose Tech Base
    Because ELMs are exclusively the property of the New Clans, a ‘Mixed’ tech base must be chosen.  ELMs may not use Omni technology.  Due to Annihilation of Clan Burrock and the loss of technology updates before their introduction, no dedicated Clan ProtoMech technology is available in the Cluster.

  Choose Bipedal or Quadrupedal
    ELMs can be Bipedal or Quadrupedal, but Quads can choose to use a Wheeled movement type.
    *Benefits and drawbacks are explored in their game rules.

  Choose Weight (Tonnage)
    ELMs range from 5 to 19 tons.  The total tonnage of a design may be less than the chosen total mass, but the design gathers no benefit from the missing tonnage.  Designs may not go above the given maximum chosen by the designer.
     *Due to mass requirements, ELMs can use tons or kg in all mass calculations.

  Allocate Tonnage for Internal Structure
     The mass of the ELM’s Internal Structure is 5% of the total mass of the ELM.  Because of their small size, ELMs have fewer Critical Slots; the head has 4 slots (with one slot apiece for Cockpit, 2 Sensors, and Life Support), each arm 5 slots (6 with the Shoulder Actuator), Legs have 2 slots (6 with Hip, Upper- and Lower Leg Actuator, and Foot), and CT has 2 slots.  (12 with standard gyro and fusion engine critical spaces.)
    *Because of the limited amount of mass, ELM Internal Structure is exclusively Endo-Steel.  Designers do not allocate critical space for the use of Endo-Steel; its slots are standardized and do not appear on the record sheet.
    *Due to their size and bulk, ELMs are limited to only Shoulder Actuators.

              ELM Internal Structure Table
  ELM      Max             Internal Structure
  Tons       AP     Head Torso  L/R Arm  L/R Leg
     5        27         1         6          1              2
     6        31         1         8          1              2
     7        31         1         8          1              2
     8        35         1        10         1              2
     9        35         1        10         1              2
    10        50        2       12          2              3
    11        50        2       12          2              3
    12        52        2       13          2              3
    13        52        2       13          2              3
    14        54        2       14          2              3
    15        65        3       14          3              4
    16        67        3       15          3              4
    17        67        3       15          3              4
    18        69        3       16          3              4
    19        69        3       16          3              4

Step 2: Install Engines and Control Systems

  Install Engine
    ELMs require Fusion engines (IS or Clan Standard, Light, or XL) or Fuel Cells for power.  Designers determine the required engine by multiplying the unit’s mass by the desired number of Walking hexes.  An Engine Rating not listed on the Master Engine Rating chart is rounded up to the next whole number.
    Fusion engines will vary in space requirements; Standard engines require no additional Critical Slots, Light and Clan XL engines require 2 additional Slots in each Torso.  Inner Sphere XL engines require three additional Slots.

  Add the Gyroscope
    Like Battlemechs, ELMs require a Gyroscope to remain upright and in motion.  To determine the total mass of a standard gyro, divide the Engine Rating by 5, rounding up to the next whole number divisible by 5.  ELMs may use Standard, Extra-Light, or Compact Gyro technology, using the applicable rules.

  Determine Jump Capability
    Only Standard Jump Jets can be installed on ELMs.  Designers may choose to add Jump Jets to their design, to a maximum of the design’s desired Walking speed.  ELMs from 5-9 tons require 0.25 tons (or 250 kg) per Jump Jet, and each pair of Jump Jets fit into a single ELM Critical Slot.  ELMs from 10-19 tons require 0.5 tons (or 500 kg) per Jump Jet, and a single ELM Critical Slot per Jump Jet.
    Due to the size and exposed nature of ELM Jump Jets, Jump Jets for ELMs from 5-9 tons do not generate Heat.
    Jump Jets for ELMs between 10-19 tons generate a single point of Heat per 2 Jump Jets.  Each Jump Jet allows a single hex of movement, with a minimum of a single hex traveled and a minimum of 1 Heat Point.

  Add Cockpit
    ELMs use a unique cockpit concept, the Open Cockpit, requiring 1 ton/1,000 kg.  The Open Cockpit is designed to provide a minimum of supporting equipment and complex electronics to the EWarrior, enclosing the pilot and protecting him from the effects of fire-based weapons like Infernos and Plasma Rifles but is not watertight.

  Add Special Physical Enhancements
    Designers who decide to add additional physical characteristics to further distinguish their design may choose from the following and follow the construction rules described below.

      Partial Wings: ELMs may a Partial Wing massing 5% of the design’s total mass rounded up to the nearest 0.25 tons (250 kg). It occupies 2 Critical Slots in the Torso location.  Partial Wings are permanent equipment and may not be combined with ELM Turrets, Detachable Weapons Platforms, or PAM technology.  A single Critical Hit destroys the Partial Wing.
      *Use the ‘ProtoMech’ column of the ‘BATTLEMECH/PROTOMECH PARTIAL WING PERFORMANCE TABLE’, pg. 295 of TacOps to determine the ELM’s movement benefit and Heat Modifier of the Partial Wing.

      Myomer Booster: Boosting the physical performance of ELMs, the Myomer Booster provides an increase to its maximum ground speed up to twice its Desired Walking speed. ELM Myomer Boosters require 2.5% x the ELM’s total mass, rounded up to the nearest 0.25 ton (250 kg).  The Myomer Booster requires a minimum of a single Critical Slot for up to a full ton of mass.  An additional Slot is required for ton or fraction of a ton of additional mass.
        *Myomer Boosters do not require activation rolls or risk leaving the ELM immobile.

      ELM Limb Extensions: ELMs are able to utilize Limb Extensions, a purely mechanical means of increasing its ground speed at the cost of Jump Jets.  Leg Extensions require 5% of the unit’s mass and a single critical space from each leg rounding up to the nearest 0.25 ton (250 kg).  Leg Extensions provide +1 to a unit’s Walk Movement, and its Run Movement is recalculated after the adjustment.
        *ELM Limb Extensions are susceptible to snapping under stress; see the Game Rules for more information.

      ELM Turret (Quad/Wheeled chassis only): Quadruped ELMs may use a single turret mounted on the back of the Torso, massing 10% of all weapons and equipment contained within the turret with a single Critical Space assigned to the turret’s mechanical components.  Weapons and Equipment assigned to the Turret share the armor of the location they are mounted on; Turrets are not a ELM damage location.
        *See the Rules section for Game Rules.

      Detachable Missile Packs/Detachable Weapons Mounts: ELM DMPs and DWMs function in a similar manner to Battlearmor, with a single Pack or Mount allowed for each design.  DMPs/DWMs require a mount massing 10% of the contents and a single Critical Space assigned to the Torso, allowing the ELM to carry a single missile or ammunition-fed weapon (and a single ton of ammunition), a single energy weapon (and its Heat Sinks), or piece of equipment (with its required ammunition or Heat Sinks) with a 25% reduction of its mass.
      In order to accommodate a DMP/DWM the ELM is restricted from Running or Jumping and suffer a further Walking Movement reduction of -2 Walking MP for ELMs between 5-9 tons of -1 Walking MP for ELMs 9-14 tons.

      Permanent AirMech: ELMs may choose to permanently modify their Internal Structure to accommodate fixed wings and flight controls to mimic the WiGE movement of Land/Air Mechs in AirMech mode.  The modifications require;
•   the removal of both Shoulder actuators
•   a Standard fusion engine (No Light or XL engines or Fuel Cells.)
•   5% of the ELM’s total mass and a single Critical Space in the Center Torso, assigned to ‘PAM Equipment’
•   10% of the ELM’s total mass for Environmental Sealing to seal the Open Cockpit
•   Jump Jets up to the Desired Walking speed of the unit.
•   PAMs are limited to Standard armor.
        *PAMs suffer from a 1/3rd ground movement penalty, which does not affect their maximum number of Jump Jets.  Their new Walk MP is (Desired Walk x .67, rounded down).
        *ELM PAMs from 5-9 tons may travel a distance 4x their Jump Movement, ELM PAMs from 10-19 tons may travel a distance 3x their Jump Movement.

...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Work-in-progress; The Blake Threat File
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
TRO: 3176 Hegemony Refits - the 30-day wonder

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #1 on: 22 June 2023, 21:47:19 »
Finished the rules, now we have to make sure that some suitable ELMs can be made, so these are still in flux.  But here's the current version.

*Oh, and some minor corrections, word changes, etc.

Quote
Extra-Light ‘Mech (ELM) Construction Rules

  Extra-Light ‘Mechs can trace their development to Clan Surf Dragon, whose attempts to create an Infantry battlesuit from Labor Caste exoskeletons were interrupted by the arrival of technical data and production samples of dezClan Wolf’s Elemental Battlearmor.  Because of the crudity of the original work, the project was abandoned in favor of the dezClan suit, and its resources turned to developing a larger, more robust unit capable of destroying an entire Elemental Point.
  A blend of Battlearmor and BattleMech technology, the Joint Development Program released the design specifications for their prototype ELM, the Novice, in 2868.  Continued refinement of ELM technology has resulted in designs from a minimum of 5 tons to a maximum of 19 tons being considered for increased emphasis to counter the revolutionary ProtoMechs introduced by dezClan Smoke Jaguar.

Step 1: Design the Chassis

  Choose Tech Base
    Because ELMs are exclusively the property of the New Clans, a ‘Mixed’ tech base must be chosen.  ELMs may not use Omni technology.  Due to Annihilation of Clan Burrock and the loss of technology updates before their introduction, no dedicated Clan ProtoMech technology is available in the Cluster.

  Choose Bipedal or Quadrupedal
    ELMs can be Bipedal or Quadrupedal, but Quads can choose to use a Wheeled movement type.  Because of the removal of the Arms for additional Legs, Quads suffer from limited space for additional weapons and equipment.
    *Benefits and drawbacks are explored in their game rules.

  Choose Weight (Tonnage)
    ELMs range from 5 to 19 tons.  The total tonnage of a design may be less than the chosen total mass, but the design gathers no benefit from the missing tonnage.  Designs may not go above the given maximum chosen by the designer.
     *Due to mass requirements, ELMs can use tons or kg in all mass calculations.

  Allocate Tonnage for Internal Structure
     The mass of the ELM’s Internal Structure is 5% of the total mass of the ELM.
      *Because of their small size and limited mass, ELM Internal Structure is exclusively Endo-Steel.  Designers do not allocate critical space for the use of Endo-Steel; its slots are standardized and do not appear on the record sheet.
    *Due to their size and bulk, ELMs are limited to only Shoulder Actuators.

              ELM Internal Structure Table
  ELM      Max             Internal Structure
  Tons       AP     Head Torso  L/R Arm  L/R Leg
     5        27         1         6          1              2
     6        31         1         8          1              2
     7        31         1         8          1              2
     8        35         1        10         1              2
     9        35         1        10         1              2
    10        50        2       12          2              3
    11        50        2       12          2              3
    12        52        2       13          2              3
    13        52        2       13          2              3
    14        54        2       14          2              3
    15        65        3       14          3              4
    16        67        3       15          3              4
    17        67        3       15          3              4
    18        69        3       16          3              4
    19        69        3       16          3              4

Step 2: Install Engines and Control Systems

  Install Engine
    ELMs require Fusion engines (IS or Clan Standard, Light, or XL) or Fuel Cells for power.  Designers determine the required engine by multiplying the unit’s mass by the desired number of Walking hexes.  An Engine Rating not listed on the Master Engine Rating chart is rounded up to the next whole number.
    Fusion engines will vary in space requirements; Standard engines require no additional Critical Slots, Light and Clan XL engines require 2 additional Slots in each Torso.  Inner Sphere XL engines require three additional Slots.

  Add the Gyroscope
    Like Battlemechs, ELMs require a Gyroscope to remain upright and in motion.  To determine the total mass of a standard gyro, divide the Engine Rating by 5, rounding up to the next whole number (divisible by 5).  ELMs may use Standard, Extra-Light, or Compact Gyro technology, using the applicable rules.  5t/5=5  ->x.25?
    Due to the small size of the gyro, ELMs between 5-9 tons require two critical spaces in the Torso for this equipment and is destroyed by a single hit.  ELMs between 10-14 tons require three critical spaces in the Torso for this equipment and is crippled by a single hit and destroyed by a second hit.  ELMs between 15-19 tons require 4 critical spaces in the Torso for this equipment and is crippled by a single hit and destroyed by a second.

  Determine Jump Capability
    Only Standard Jump Jets can be installed on ELMs.  Designers may choose to add Jump Jets to their design, to a maximum of the design’s desired Walking speed.  ELMs from 5-9 tons require 0.25 tons (or 250 kg) per Jump Jet, and each pair of Jump Jets fit into a single ELM Critical Slot.  ELMs from 10-19 tons require 0.5 tons (or 500 kg) per Jump Jet, and a single ELM Critical Slot per Jump Jet.
    Due to the size and exposed nature of ELM Jump Jets, Jump Jets for ELMs from 5-9 tons do not generate Heat.
    Jump Jets for ELMs between 10-19 tons generate a single point of Heat per 2 Jump Jets.  Each Jump Jet allows a single hex of movement, with a minimum of a single hex traveled and a minimum of 1 Heat Point.

  Add Cockpit
    ELMs use a unique cockpit concept, the Open Cockpit, requiring 1 ton/1,000 kg.  The Open Cockpit is designed to provide a minimum of supporting equipment and complex electronics to the EWarrior, enclosing the pilot and protecting him from the effects of fire-based weapons like Infernos and Plasma Rifles but is not watertight.

  Add Special Physical Enhancements
    Designers who decide to add additional physical characteristics to further distinguish their design may choose from the following and follow the construction rules described below.

      Partial Wings: ELMs may a Partial Wing massing 5% of the design’s total mass rounded up to the nearest 0.25 tons (250 kg). It occupies 2 Critical Slots in the Torso location.  Partial Wings are permanent equipment and may not be combined with ELM Turrets, Detachable Weapons Platforms, or PAM technology.  A single Critical Hit destroys the Partial Wing.
      *Use the ‘ProtoMech’ column of the ‘BATTLEMECH/PROTOMECH PARTIAL WING PERFORMANCE TABLE’, pg. 295 of TacOps to determine the ELM’s movement benefit and Heat Modifier of the Partial Wing.

      Myomer Booster: Boosting the physical performance of ELMs, the Myomer Booster provides an increase to its maximum ground speed up to twice its Desired Walking speed. ELM Myomer Boosters require 2.5% x the ELM’s total mass, rounded up to the nearest 0.25 ton (250 kg).  The Myomer Booster requires a minimum of a single Critical Slot for up to a full ton of mass.  An additional Slot is required for ton or fraction of a ton of additional mass.
        *Myomer Boosters do not require activation rolls or risk leaving the ELM immobile.

      ELM Limb Extensions: ELMs are able to utilize Limb Extensions, a purely mechanical means of increasing its ground speed at the cost of Jump Jets.  ELMs are unable to use Arm Extensions, but Leg Extensions require 5% of the unit’s mass and a single critical space from each leg rounding up to the nearest 0.25 ton (250 kg).  Leg Extensions provide +1 to a unit’s Walk Movement, and its Run Movement is recalculated after the adjustment.
        *ELM Limb Extensions are susceptible to snapping under stress; see the Game Rules for more information.
More for quads

      ELM Turret (Quad/Wheeled chassis only): Quadruped ELMs may use a single turret mounted on the back of the Torso.  This turret is unlimited in terms of critical spaces for weapons and equipment and masses 10% of all weapons, ammunition, and equipment contained within the turret and two critical spaces are required to house the turret’s mechanical components and secure it.  Additional ammunition may only be carried in the remaining slots of the Torso, due to the compact nature of the ELM.
    Weapons and Equipment assigned to the Turret share the armor of the location they are mounted on; Turrets are not a ELM damage location.
        *See the Rules section for Game Rules.

      Detachable Missile Packs/Detachable Weapons Mounts: ELM DMPs and DWMs function in a similar manner to Battlearmor, with a single Pack or Mount allowed for each design.  DMPs/DWMs require a mount massing 10% of the contents and a single Critical Space assigned to the Torso, allowing the ELM to carry a single missile or ammunition-fed weapon (and a single ton of ammunition), a single energy weapon (and its Heat Sinks), or piece of equipment (with its required ammunition or Heat Sinks) with a 25% reduction of its mass.
      In order to accommodate a DMP/DWM the ELM is restricted from Running or Jumping and suffer a further Walking Movement reduction of -2 Walking MP for ELMs between 5-9 tons of -1 Walking MP for ELMs 9-14 tons.

      Permanent AirMech: ELMs may choose to permanently modify their Internal Structure to accommodate fixed wings and flight controls to mimic the WiGE movement of Land/Air Mechs in AirMech mode.  The modifications require;
•   the removal of both Arms for Shoulder actuators
•   a Standard fusion engine (No Light or XL engines or Fuel Cells.)
•   5% of the ELM’s total mass and a single Critical Space in the Center Torso, assigned to ‘PAM Equipment’
•   10% of the ELM’s total mass for Environmental Sealing to seal the Open Cockpit
•   Jump Jets may be added up to the Desired Walking speed of the unit.
•   PAMs are limited to Standard armor.
        *PAMs suffer from a 1/3rd ground movement penalty, which does not affect their maximum number of Jump Jets.  Their new Walk MP is (Desired Walk x .67, rounded down).
        *ELM PAMs from 5-9 tons may travel a distance 4x their Jump Movement, ELM PAMs from 10-19 tons may travel a distance 3x their Jump Movement.

Step 3: Add Additional Heat Sinks

  ELMs are only allowed Compact Heat Sinks.  Each ELM fusion engine comes with ten Compact Heat Sinks free of charge, but the space available for those Heat Sinks depends on the physical size of the engine.  To determine the number of spaces available in the engine for Heat sinks, divide the Engine Rating by 10.  Each remaining or additional Heat Sink must be placed in the ELM’s remaining Critical Slots, where each

Engine step place original  Make this all free hs

 additional Compact Heat Sink masses a single ton, and two Compact Heat Sinks fit in a single Critical Space.  Individual Compact Heatsinks take up the full slot in terms of weapons and equipment.
  If designers choose to use a Fuel Cell rather than fusion engine, enough Compact Heat Sinks must be added to balance any heat generated by any weapons and equipment carried by the design.

Step 4: Add Armor

  Armor is added in the same manner as Battlearmor, with a single point of advanced armor massing 50 kg.  Up to a maximum of double the Internal Structure value in each location can be added with the head able to accept a maximum of three times the value of its Internal Structure.  Going over this limit has no effect beside wasting tonnage and no benefit is gained.
    *Standardized armor works out to 10 AP/0.5 tons (500 kg), or 20 AP/per ton (1,000 kg).

Step 5: Add Weapons, Ammunition, and Other Equipment*

  ELMs may use most of the Legacy Cluster Heavy Weapons and Equipment Chart as well as the Legacy Cluster Battlearmor Weapons and Equipment Chart, barring those that require too many Critical Slots to accommodate.  (ELMs may accommodate larger weapons by combining their Torso and a single Arm’s Critical Slots, at the cost of being restricted to the Forward Arc.)  However, while most items function normally, designers may be required to add additional Heat Sinks in Step 5 to ensure their designs remain heat neutral at the end of the round.
  In order to accommodate Battlearmor weapons and equipment, the following rules* must be observed;

    a. No Battlearmor missile weapons may be used.

    b. Each Battlearmor energy weapon must be rounded up to a multiple of 0.25 tons (250 kg), and each weapon or piece of equipment requires a single critical space.  Multiple identical weapons may be ‘bundled’ together before rounding up.   These energy weapons (including TAG systems) need no ammo if they are mounted on a fusion-powered unit but generate 1 point of heat per 250 kg of mass.

    c. Ammo-based Battlearmor weapons are treated as though they carry a single standard magazine in their weight and slot space but may carry additional ammo in 50-kilogram increments.  Each individual weapon must be rounded up to a multiple of 0.25 tons (250 kg), but like energy weapons multiple identical weapons may be ‘bundled’ together before rounding up.  The total tonnage required by this additional ammunition is also rounded up to multiples of 0.25 tons (250 kg) and a single critical space.  Additional ammunition would require an additional critical space.

    d. Battlearmor equipment mounted on ELMs use their standard weights and are rounded up individually to 0.25 tons (250 kg) but can be ‘bundled’ with other equipment before rounding up to multiples of 0.25 tons (250 kg).  Despite being ‘bundled’ together to save mass, each item requires a single critical slot.

*This section is adapted to include rules from TRO: Syberia, Pg. 219, “Syberian Technology Base”, with the permission of Herbert A Beas.  Thank you!

  Weapons and equipment from the Legacy Cluster Heavy Weapons and Equipment Chart are assigned normally.

6. Finish the Record Sheet

  Having finished the design, fill out the Record Sheet.  Ensure the sheet reflects a Bipedal or Quadrupedal design, and fill in the slots for such things as Heat Sinks, weapons and equipment, and relevant special rules.

*Designers will note that due to their small size, ELMs have fewer open Critical Slots.  The head has 1(with one slot apiece for Cockpit, Sensors, and Life Support), each arm has 5 (6 with the Shoulder Actuator), and the Legs have 2 (6 with Hip, Upper- and Lower Leg Actuator, and Foot).  The Torso has 12 Slots, housing the Engine and Gyro.  Due to the smaller gyro carried by ELMs from 5-14 tons, the design may have as many as 3-4 additional critical spaces to share with the adjoining Arm.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Work-in-progress; The Blake Threat File
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
TRO: 3176 Hegemony Refits - the 30-day wonder

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #2 on: 22 June 2023, 22:25:00 »
A back of the shopping list design; a quick look online even found it a name, the Crab Spider.  I image I could fluff it as the ELM dropping a set of supports, making it look like a spider.

1. TB-LC
quad
5 T
Is - 0.25 t

2. Engine 5t x 5 MP - 25 ER  .5  <- .75
Gyro - 5 MP/5 - 1 t <-1.75 t total
Open cockpit - 1 t  <- 2.75 t total

3. HS - 0 (10) (Decided to make these invisible to the designer, just like the E-S IS.

4. Armor - 1.25 t / 50 kg/AP -> 25 AP (27 max)    1.25 <- 4.0


Those of you following the occasional comments about the homebrew tech in my project know that the Cassette Missile System is basically a steel frame with a third of a ton of missiles in each 'cassette'.  Missiles can be fired 2/4/6 (SRMs), 5/10/15/20 (LRMs), 10/20/30/40 (MRMs), etc.  In this case, the Crab Spider carries an entire ton of LRMs/MRMs/Thunder LRMs.

I joked about this in the BantamMechs thread, but imagine - 5 5-ton ELMs, walking up to the firing line, and blasting away with 600 LRMs before running away.  Of course, that leaves 25 AP over 6 locations.  This is an egg, armed with a sledgehammer.


5. Wpns & Equip

3x Cassette (LRM) 120 missiles  -  1 t  <- 5 t

3 x Cassette (MRM) 240 missiles  -  1t  <- 5 t

3 x Cassette (Thunder) 120 missiles  -  1 t  <-  5 t
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Work-in-progress; The Blake Threat File
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
TRO: 3176 Hegemony Refits - the 30-day wonder

namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #3 on: 24 June 2023, 10:28:35 »
1. Do Wheeled ELM have a speed boost on roads like Wheeled Battle Armor and Wheeled Combat vehicles?

2. Are there any ELM industrialmechs?

3. Was the Crab Spider a New Clan design or a Blakist design?

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #4 on: 24 June 2023, 12:36:47 »
1. Do Wheeled ELM have a speed boost on roads like Wheeled Battle Armor and Wheeled Combat vehicles?

2. Are there any ELM industrialmechs?

3. Was the Crab Spider a New Clan design or a Blakist design?

1. Yep.  And since they use jump jets as speed boosters, it gets absurd, fast.

2. No, ELMs deliberate don't have arms.  I suppose they can be haulers like the Uni(?).

3.Blakist.  You can tell by the Thunder LRMs used in civilian areas. :yikes:  It'll be adapted, probably, but it's a long-lasting proposal.
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namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #5 on: 25 June 2023, 16:30:46 »
1. Yep.  And since they use jump jets as speed boosters, it gets absurd, fast.

2. No, ELMs deliberate don't have arms.  I suppose they can be haulers like the Uni(?).

3.Blakist.  You can tell by the Thunder LRMs used in civilian areas. :yikes:  It'll be adapted, probably, but it's a long-lasting proposal.

1. Now I'm imagining Quad ELMs using Partial Wings so that they can jump like Wheeled Battle Armor too.

2. Something like a Trailer Hitch then?

3. I kind of figured but I but I also expected The Society (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/The_Society) to also make an appearance somehow.

Edit: So what's on the Legacy Cluster Heavy Weapons and Equipment Chart? Is it a mix of Inner Sphere, Clan, and Intermediate technologies, or does it have some unique innovations to call their own?
« Last Edit: 26 June 2023, 13:35:52 by namar13766 »

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #6 on: 25 June 2023, 20:19:24 »
1. Now I'm imagining Quad ELMs using Partial Wings so that they can jump like Wheeled Battle Armor too.

2. Something like a Trailer Hitch then?

3. I kind of figured but I but I also expected The Society (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/The_Society) to also make an appearance somehow.

Welllll....  The Civit, a wheeled Light BA was supposed to have something that it could use to cross gaps.  It would travel at flank speed (12-14, I don't remember just now) then activate its jump jets and use a parasail/partial wing - something like MarioKart!  Can't remember what I did instead, I think I chickened out because it was a bit too munchie.

And again, the wheeled BA has hitches, if they can fit them in.  It's an easy way to take average BA and support it with drone-controlled field guns, rocket/missile artillery, whatever.  Not to mention the Alamo-equipped drone suicide BA and trailer.  You normally can't make BA a drone, but I think I can get away with it because it's wheeled

And, NO!  The Legacy Cluster is pretty loose, treating clan membership like sports teams, almost.  The Scientist are a Caste, devoted to the benefits of the Caste, charged by Kerensky to fulfil a role.  A role the Wolverines chaffed at in the Pentagon, and something they would outright reject now.  Kerensky isn't quite burned in effigy 500 years later, but the general opinion is...  Rude, and the New Clans have had time to interminable with the Civilians.  They'd have to Annihilate the whole Cluster to gain their cooperation, and if they showed up after their revolt, you'd see the definition of diplomacy, "Keep them talking until you can kill all of them by surprise."

Edit - sorry, missed your last question.  Yes, it's a mix of domestic-created technologies, Inner Sphere, and Kerensky's Clans' tech.  Of course, the Cluster has a long history of vanishing civilians to add to the Cluster's population, technical, and industrial base, so IS sold/stolen equipment dominates.  But the centuries of collusion with Clan Burrock and the technical support they provided means they have some extremely limited Clan-tech items in production; lasers and missile launchers, mostly, while Omnimechs are rare but do exist since the New Clans are more likely to negotiate contracts than declare Trials (Even though that does happen rarely, as Caste hardliners are primary targets, since everybody but him is willing to sit down and negotiate like NORMAL prople...) and fight over scarce resources.
« Last Edit: 26 June 2023, 00:39:46 by Red Pins »
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namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #7 on: 26 June 2023, 20:48:31 »
So what's the schools of thought on using ELMs in the Legacy Cluster? Are they used more as super-heavy infantry or more as, well, extra-light mechs?

Because I'm fairly certain that if they saw the Emerald Harrier/Roadrunner in action, the New Clans would have a lot of raised eyebrows.

Edit: Can ELMs use Mechanical Jump Boosters?
« Last Edit: 26 June 2023, 20:50:27 by namar13766 »

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #8 on: 26 June 2023, 21:37:09 »
So what's the schools of thought on using ELMs in the Legacy Cluster? Are they used more as super-heavy infantry or more as, well, extra-light mechs?

Because I'm fairly certain that if they saw the Emerald Harrier/Roadrunner in action, the New Clans would have a lot of raised eyebrows.

Edit: Can ELMs use Mechanical Jump Boosters?

They basically run the gamat from a to z.  They're hateful little ********* that seem easy to kill, but always fight in the shadow of something more dangerous you want to kill first.  They combine the worst aspects of mechs, infantry, and (if I ever stop waffling on the wheeled ELM option) vehicles, but are cheap and threatening enough with BA weapons and equip to be played in groups like Savannah Masters.

And no, mechanical Jump boosters never made it to the Cluster.  They were never more than a niche item IIRC, and I cut them out thinking that it would be hard to reason they were essential to put into production.
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namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #9 on: 27 June 2023, 16:29:15 »
Can ELMs mount both myomer boosters and limb extensions?

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #10 on: 27 June 2023, 19:04:32 »
Yup.  Haven't gotten around to finishing those, yet, but if you're designing something remember the extra joint makes the limbs slightly more fragile.  This is only a 2nd draft, I'm getting the designs for the infantry and some vehicles first.

Fair warning, I seem to remember the rules stating a major hit on any limb with limb extensions risks breaking the limb in half.

Quote
Limb Extensions
   Developed from the stilts worn by Laborers in construction sites, New Clan engineers at the JDP pioneered the use of structural extensions between the Leg joints of ‘Mechs as a purely mechanical means of increasing their ground speed.  Further development has created three categories of Limb Extensions;
•   Upper-Leg Extensions – The only Leg Extensions for ELMs, PAMs, and bipedal ‘Mechs, Upper-Leg Extensions are placed between the Upper- and Lower-Leg actuator.  Quad BattleMechs and H-ACs must have Upper-Leg Extensions before Lower-Leg Extensions can be added.
•   Lower-Leg Extensions – The second type of Leg Extension, Lower-Leg Extensions may only be used on Quad BattleMechs and H-ACs, taking advantage of their greater stability.
•   Forearm Extensions – Usable only by bipedal BattleMechs, Forearm Extensions increase the damage of physical attacks.

Construction Rules
   Limb Extensions offer several unique benefits and disadvantages to different types of units;
•   Extensions require 5% of the unit’s mass and a single critical space from each limb.  Both of a unit’s Arms or Legs must have an Extension.
•   Extensions are permanent equipment and may not be assigned as pod space on OmniMechs.
•   Quad BattleMechs and H-ACs are allowed to use two sets of extensions in exchange for 10% of their mass and two critical spaces per Leg (one for each set of Extensions).  Bipedal Battlemechs may use two sets of Extensions if designed with both Forearm and Leg Extensions.
Ex. 1)  A 50 ton bipedal BattleMech chooses a set of Upper-Leg Extensions for (50 tons x 5%=) 2.5 tons, and one critical slot (‘Upper-Leg Extension’, between ‘Upper-Leg Actuator’ and ‘Lower-Leg Actuator’) in each leg.
      2) A 50 ton bipedal BattleMech wants both Forearm and Leg Extensions.  The Upper-Leg Extensions weigh 2.5 tons and require one critical slot in each leg, as above.  The Forearm Extensions weigh (50 tons x 5%=) 2.5 tons and one critical slot (‘Forearm Extension’, between ‘Lower-Arm Actuator’ and ‘Hand’) in each arm.
      3) A 200 ton H-AC takes advantage of its stability to use two sets of Leg Extensions.  Each Extension weighs (200 tons x 5%=) 10 tons, for a total of 20 tons, and two critical slots per leg (‘Upper-Leg Extension’ as above, and ‘Lower-Leg Extension’ between ‘Lower-Leg Actuator’ and ‘Foot’).

Game Rules
   The addition of Limb Extensions places a greater strain on man and machine.  Besides being inherently unstable, Limb Extensions suffer several penalties during play;
•   All units with Leg Extensions require an additional +1 MP to Stand after a fall or going Prone.
•   ELMs, PAMs, and bipedal BattleMechs with Leg Extensions suffer a +1 to all Piloting Skill Rolls.
•   Quad BattleMechs and H-ACs with both Upper- and Lower-Leg Extensions suffer a +1 penalty to their Piloting Skill Rolls when attempting to Stand after a fall or going Prone.
•   Quad BattleMechs and H-ACs with Upper- and Lower-Leg Extensions are considered Level 3 when determining LOS.
•   If a Critical Hit destroys a Forearm Extension, the BattleMech loses the use of all components (such as weapons or heatsinks) mounted in the Arm.
•   If a Critical Hit destroys a bipedal BattleMech’s Upper-Leg Extension, the unit falls automatically.  The unit is unable to stand or walk for the remainder of the game.
o   ACs with a broken Limb Extension receive only a –2 Piloting Skill bonus and lose 1 MP.  An AC with a second broken Limb Extension loses its Piloting Skill bonus and is reduced to a single MP.  A third forces the AC to fall automatically, and it is unable to stand or walk for the remainder of the game.
o   HACs with a broken Limb Extension lose 1 MP.  HACs with a second broken Limb Extension receive only a –2 Piloting Skill bonus, and are slowed by 2 MP.  A third loses the HACs Piloting Skill bonus, and reduces the HAC to a single MP.  A fourth forces the HAC to fall automatically, and it is unable to stand or walk for the remainder of the game.

Units with Extensions receive the following benefits;
•   A set of Upper-Leg Extensions provide +1 to a unit’s Walk Movement, while Quad BattleMechs and H-ACs with both Upper- and Lower-Leg Extensions receive +2 to their Walk Movement.  A unit’s Run Movement is recalculated after the adjustment to their Walk MP.  Units with Jump Jets can not add Jump Jets over the Walk Movement provided by the engine.
Ex.  A 50 ton bipedal Battlemech moves 6/9/6, before the ‘Add Special Physical Enhancements’ section of the BattleMech construction rules.  Choosing to add Upper-Leg Extensions, his movement is now 7/11/6; he may not add a 7th Jump Jet to the design.
•   Leg or Forearm Extensions provide greater damage due to longer limbs;
o   Upper-Leg and Forearm Extensions increase damage from Punching or Kicking by 25%.
Ex.  A 50 ton bipedal BattleMech does 5 Punch or 10 Kick damage.  With both Forearm and Leg Extensions, the ‘Mech does 6 Punch (5 damage x 1.25, rounded down) and 12 Kick damage (10 x 1.25, rounded down).
o   Units with Upper- and Lower-Leg Extensions increase damage from Kicking by 50%.
Ex.  A 200 ton H-AC does 40 Kick damage.  With Upper-Leg Extensions, it does 50 Kick damage (40 x 1.25, rounding down).  With both Upper- and Lower-Leg Extensions, it does 60 Kick damage (40 x 1.5, rounding down).

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namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #11 on: 27 June 2023, 20:59:29 »
Do any of the Legacy Cluster ELMs look like a miniature Timberwolf or an upscaled Elemental?

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #12 on: 27 June 2023, 22:49:10 »
Yup.  I figured, 'Why mess with what works?'  So, a lot of the original-draft ELMs were similar in weapon layout and movement to different units.  Most of the famous ones were duplicated; Mad Cat/Marauder, Hunchback, Catapult, Griffin, and P-Hawk LAM are the ones that stick out, but I think Hollander, Hatchetman, and a Piranha equivalent (It was designed before the Piranha was published; I had found a unit called a Storm Giant in MML I was really impressed with, something about a massive small laser battery and a couple hole-punchers, PPCs, I think.)were some more.

Come to think of it, somebody else here on the boards was doing this with 'Mechs/BA or something.
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namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #13 on: 05 July 2023, 13:22:47 »
So is there anything else you need to add to the thread before you consider the extralight mech finished?

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #14 on: 05 July 2023, 15:32:26 »
Lots, from 15-17 designs and about 13 new page screenshots to play testing behind the scenes.  Sorry I've been so quiet, I was spending extra time at work on the run-up to surgery, and won't be able to sit comfortably at a desk for a couple weeks.
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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #15 on: 08 July 2023, 23:19:51 »
More unofficial stuff done today - sat at my desk for a few minutes to print off the engine chart, then flipped between the thread and phone calculator, but have a few fixes; using it to figure 5-9 ton units, dividing ER by 100 as a mech to calculate gyro, rounding up to the nearest multiple of 5 kg for IS, gyro, and armor.

The 5 tonnes is armed with a single ton of cassettes, above.

6 tons, quad, 7/11 (quad, leg ex.), gyro-500 kg, quad turret-ER-ML(C).

7 tons, biped, 6/9, gyro 450 kg, MpL(C), 2xRL-10.

8 tons, biped, 7/11 (14) (leg ex), 6xJJs, gyro-500 kg, myomer booster, Light-Drone Rack.  +250 kg, probably wasted tonnage.

9 tons, biped, 9/14, gyro-900 kg, ER-ML, 2xER-SmL, 2xmicro ER laser, BA ecm suite.  Probably wasted tonnage of 150 kg.

Needs more blakist  gear; I've decided to have the NCs ignore the 5-9 ton units in the future.

I've got a wicked heat rash so less sitting tomorrow.  Gives me some time to think about these some more.
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namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #16 on: 10 July 2023, 06:40:29 »
So would a hypothetical 15-ton biped ELM with 3/5 movement, 1 medium laser, 1 SRM-2, and 2 Machineguns be too on the nose?

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #17 on: 10 July 2023, 10:58:27 »
So would a hypothetical 15-ton biped ELM with 3/5 movement, 1 medium laser, 1 SRM-2, and 2 Machineguns be too on the nose?

According to the new mods to the construction rules above;
1.TB - LC
Biped
15 tons
Is-5%-0.75 tons

2.Engine-15 tonsx3 mp=45 engine rating - 1.0 tons  <- 1.75 tons total
Gyro - 45/100=.45 tons. <- 2.2 tons total
Open cockpit - 1.0 tons  <- 3.2 tons total

3 HS- 0

4. Armor - 65 AP max x 50 kg = 3.25. <- 6.45 tons max.

Sure I've screwed this up somehow, but can't sit at the desk yet.  OTOH, sneezed and didn't start cursing in pain, so getting better.

*-edit; godawful silly tablet word correction.  I miss the desktop.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2023, 12:16:37 by Red Pins »
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namar13766

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #18 on: 06 August 2023, 11:11:44 »
Which of the ELMs is the most common due to be so damn useful?

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #19 on: 06 August 2023, 11:41:40 »
I remember seeing an article on extra-light 'Mechs in a gaming magazine, including actual designs. I just can't remember which magazine it was (Not Battletechnology)...

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #20 on: 06 August 2023, 12:07:14 »
Star Date?

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #21 on: 06 August 2023, 12:21:52 »
Which of the ELMs is the most common due to be so damn useful?

In the original designs?  The 12 ton Striker was 6/9, about 50 AP, and carried twin er-mediums and Lights, with quad RL-10s or the homegrown RL(S)-5 (the RL system, but carrying SRMs).  It was the dedicated BA hunter.

Then again, the 16 ton PAM was something absurd, something like 3/5/21 with a bunch of BA EW  gear and weapons.  It was the dedicated scout/headhunter unit.

Then the 19 ton unit was a dedicated escort for the Assault mechs and  150- and 200 ton unit, 3/5 with AMS  and either large pulse or ER-Large lasers.  It was basically the 'goalkeeper' for those units - used to prevent small drones on ramming missions from taking out the legs of those units.  The pilots didn't like the idea much.   :evil:  The others never really stood out.

I remember seeing an article on extra-light 'Mechs in a gaming magazine, including actual designs. I just can't remember which magazine it was (Not Battletechnology)...

Craig

Mechaforce or something?

I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time justifying these units.  They're so absurd, it's not funny.  What was reasonable to me ~20 years ago is just utterly absurd now, I'm not having much luck playtesting.  I'm thinking I'm going to have to reconsider the whole concept from scratch and just move on to something else for now like the drone/robotics or just plow through some Mech refits to get some enthusiasm for the project back, but ELMs were supposed to be EVERYWHERE, the massive success Clan Protos never were.

*edit-I've literally done nothing but paint some minis and surf the net since the operation, I really need to do something but I think the ELMS have hit a wall.
« Last Edit: 06 August 2023, 12:28:04 by Red Pins »
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idea weenie

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #22 on: 06 August 2023, 12:54:31 »
I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time justifying these units.  They're so absurd, it's not funny.  What was reasonable to me ~20 years ago is just utterly absurd now, I'm not having much luck playtesting.  I'm thinking I'm going to have to reconsider the whole concept from scratch and just move on to something else for now like the drone/robotics or just plow through some Mech refits to get some enthusiasm for the project back, but ELMs were supposed to be EVERYWHERE, the massive success Clan Protos never were.

Give them the ability to use both Mech and BA weapons, but Mech weapons get a tonnage discount while BA weapons get a tonnage penalty.

They're basically a Chickenhawk type unit, compared to BA and Protomechs being more of an Ape.

ELMs also offer the ability to be piloted by someone who doesn't have to have their limbs amputated.  They are basically combining the head and torso of a Protomech so hits to either can cause Pilot damage, but by using a Mech-style cockpit the pilot does not need any form of Enhanced Imaging.  They are basically a Battlemech Extra-Small Cockpit with limbs attached to the sides.

With the weapons being put into 250-kilogram or 500-kilogram 'pods', they can also be changed out fairly easily.  You've fired off the missile packs?  Drop those pods and get another set.  Your opponent is using anti-laser aerosol grenades?  Change your laser weapon pods out for Battlearmor- or Protomech-scale autocannons.

So pilots can safely use them, they have more weapon options, but the pilot is more likely to take consciousness rolls.

For tabletop usage, the key issue to me is the need to track heat on something that is supposed to be spammed.  Make them similar to vehicles where certain weapons simply don't generate heat, and require Heat Sinks for the remainder.  You might even make it where energy weapons produce 1/5 their Heat (FRU) and you have to put in sufficient Heat Sinks to handle this leftover heat.  This is one less thing for the user to track.

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #23 on: 06 August 2023, 14:18:59 »
Give them the ability to use both Mech and BA weapons, but Mech weapons get a tonnage discount while BA weapons get a tonnage penalty.

They're basically a Chickenhawk type unit, compared to BA and Protomechs being more of an Ape.

As it is, I'm hesitant to offer Heavy weapons at a mass discount.  One of the bright spots in all this is that I got Herb's permission to use the Nebula California rules for mechs to carry BA weapons.  I'm pretty sure that's going to stick.

ELMs also offer the ability to be piloted by someone who doesn't have to have their limbs amputated.  They are basically combining the head and torso of a Protomech so hits to either can cause Pilot damage, but by using a Mech-style cockpit the pilot does not need any form of Enhanced Imaging.  They are basically a Battlemech Extra-Small Cockpit with limbs attached to the sides.

Well, I envision them more as a sports bike-style crouch rather than a recliner-style cockpit, but there's still a head location.  I think maybe going to completely empty arm slots, removing them as hit locations, and combining arm-CT-arm into one location would account for the massive difference in armor between Torso and Arm locations.  It would look sort-of like a modern attack helicopter, the arms being nothing more than the stubby wings on the helicopter to hang missiles and stuff.

With the weapons being put into 250-kilogram or 500-kilogram 'pods', they can also be changed out fairly easily.  You've fired off the missile packs?  Drop those pods and get another set.  Your opponent is using anti-laser aerosol grenades?  Change your laser weapon pods out for Battlearmor- or Protomech-scale autocannons.

So pilots can safely use them, they have more weapon options, but the pilot is more likely to take consciousness rolls.

For tabletop usage, the key issue to me is the need to track heat on something that is supposed to be spammed.  Make them similar to vehicles where certain weapons simply don't generate heat, and require Heat Sinks for the remainder.  You might even make it where energy weapons produce 1/5 their Heat (FRU) and you have to put in sufficient Heat Sinks to handle this leftover heat.  This is one less thing for the user to track.

Yeah, they don't generate movement, ballistic or missile heat, only the energy weapons do. I really don't want to make them omni- or omni-similar.  There's absurd, then there's just munchie, and as written these are way closer than anything else I ever tried to come up with.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #24 on: 06 August 2023, 14:30:57 »
Huh... I thought I had Nebula California, but it seems I've misplaced it if I do...  I'll need to check out those BA weapons on 'mechs rules, since I sunk a significant amount of effort into my "Remote Weapons Station" rules...

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #25 on: 06 August 2023, 15:06:55 »
They're here;

Quote
*This section is adapted to include rules from TRO: Syberia, Pg. 219, “Syberian Technology Base”, with the permission of Herbert A Beas.  Thank you!
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Daryk

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #26 on: 06 August 2023, 15:08:33 »
Ah, then I'll need to go review the thread more closely... thanks! :)

idea weenie

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #27 on: 06 August 2023, 21:11:30 »
Well, I envision them more as a sports bike-style crouch rather than a recliner-style cockpit, but there's still a head location.  I think maybe going to completely empty arm slots, removing them as hit locations, and combining arm-CT-arm into one location would account for the massive difference in armor between Torso and Arm locations.  It would look sort-of like a modern attack helicopter, the arms being nothing more than the stubby wings on the helicopter to hang missiles and stuff.

I'd go with either CT-Head and merging the side torsos and the appropriate arm, or separate Head and merging the three torso locations together with the arms hanging off that.

My mental image is that the cockpit would be biker-style crouch for the Quads, but for bipedal ELM the chair/recliner-style cockpit would be better.

Yeah, they don't generate movement, ballistic or missile heat, only the energy weapons do. I really don't want to make them omni- or omni-similar.  There's absurd, then there's just munchie, and as written these are way closer than anything else I ever tried to come up with.

I was thinking it would be between where Battlearmor doesn't generate any heat from energy weapons, and Mechs have to deal with all of the heat.  By only having to deal with some of the heat it seemed like a good intermediate solution.  All the math would be on the design side, rather than having to deal with tracking heat during the fight.

The closest these would be to Omni would be that the weapon pods can be 250 kg or 500 kg.  Make the light version (up to 9 tons) only able to carry 250 kg pods, while the heavier version can carry pods up to 500 kg.  The locations are pre-selected for how many pods and what mass they can handle, and this balance in mass is kept in mind during the design phase.  it would need rules where the difference in weight between the sides with the pods cannot exceed 250 kg for the up to 9 tons, and no more than 500 kg for the up to 19 tons.  So if the 9-ton ELM has space for four 250-kg pods on the left side, then the right side can only contain enough space for 3-5 pods.  If the ELM only has two 250-kg pods on the right side, then the left side can only carry 1-3 pods.

Insert a rule where if an ELM ever violates this limit, then the heavier side has to jettison sufficient pods to get within the limit.  In the above example, if the pods are 3 & 2 and the right side jettisons one pod (for whatever reason) turning the ELM into 3 & 1, then the left side has to jettison a pod to bring it down to 2 & 1.  until this is done give the ELM a Piloting penalty proportional to the excess mass, divided by the max pod mass the ELM can handle.  So a 9-ton ELM with 1.5 tons more of pods on one side than the other will have a 1250 kg excess difference, which is a 5-pt Piloting penalty (1500 kg minus the 250kg acceptable difference is 1250 kg, divided by 250kg is 5).  A 10-ton ELM with 1.5 more tons on one side than the other will only have a net of 1 ton difference, which is a 2-pt Piloting penalty (1500 kg minus 500 kg acceptable .difference is 1 ton, divided by 500 kg is 2).

So the ELM is not an Omni, it is just the pods that are swappable.  By only using pods of certain weights and limiting the pods for balance, it makes the design much easier to handle different configurations.

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #28 on: 06 August 2023, 23:26:14 »
...These are good idea, and I'll consider them for the next draft - but these are cheap, throwaway units not especially useful or powerful. 
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Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #29 on: 16 August 2023, 02:16:53 »
I've decided the ELMs as written aren't acceptable.  They aren't something I'd want to play, but a large portion of fluff as written insists they exist in large numbers across the New Clans.

I've been bogged down trying to figure out a solution, and need to move on, so I've decided to tackle something easier while reconsidering them.  Having already completed the unfinished Serpentis Series of vehicles and the Demon Battlearmor, I'm going to finish the Celestial Omnimechs.  None of the base design details will change, but new weapon configurations will replace the garbage they were saddled with, focusing on advanced tech to counter the NC's  numbers.

These will be mostly killing machines using the Cluster mixed tech chart, the tip of the Blakist spear, and supported by drone and robotic units operated from elsewhere.  No supporting configs.  I'll open another thread when I'm ready to do the pages.
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truetanker

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #30 on: 07 September 2023, 18:29:48 »
I'll be glad to use and give them a home when you're done RP.

TT
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Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #31 on: 07 September 2023, 22:53:24 »
I'll be glad to use and give them a home when you're done RP.

TT

Well, thanks.  Right now they're still on hold.  I really want to get some use out of the concept, and I keep trying to come up with something and not concentrating on the Celestials, but I draw a blank.  I may have to focus on the 10- and 15 ton brackets and call it quits.
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idea weenie

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #32 on: 08 September 2023, 20:39:50 »
I could see these Extra-light Mechs (Inner Sphere Protomechs) being a Mech cockpit (small or regular) with souped-up Battlearmor components rather than down-scaled Mech components.

Similar to how Quad Battlearmor are a cockpit with limbs on the outside, these would be a Mech Cockpit with limbs on the outside.  They would use Batteries instead of fusion reactors for power reducing their endurance, but the Batteries can be placed as needed meaning an onboard reactor doesn't cause a cramped cockpit (the Small Cockpit causes a cramped cockpit).  Eventually the fusion reactor would be needed for power demands, and you'd convert from XLM to Mech.

For appearances they might be similar to a WH40k Sentinel or the Starship Troopers' Duck.

Red Pins

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Re: 'Extra-Light 'Mechs' - Warcriming to the beat.
« Reply #33 on: 08 September 2023, 21:50:28 »
I could see these Extra-light Mechs (Inner Sphere Protomechs) being a Mech cockpit (small or regular) with souped-up Battlearmor components rather than down-scaled Mech components.

Similar to how Quad Battlearmor are a cockpit with limbs on the outside, these would be a Mech Cockpit with limbs on the outside.  They would use Batteries instead of fusion reactors for power reducing their endurance, but the Batteries can be placed as needed meaning an onboard reactor doesn't cause a cramped cockpit (the Small Cockpit causes a cramped cockpit).  Eventually the fusion reactor would be needed for power demands, and you'd convert from XLM to Mech.

For appearances they might be similar to a WH40k Sentinel or the Starship Troopers' Duck.

Most of those suggestions are already adapted. IW.

They use the 'Open Cockpit' concept, basically a motorcycle saddle in a smaller, 1ton cockpit.  Its Fireproof, but not waterproof.

Herb gave permission to adapt the Nebula California rules for use with ELMs - that was mentioned in this thread by somebody (I think?) and it was brilliant, saved me from having to create them.

The batteries are a good point - I looked at Fuel Cells, then just decided to use fusion engines to get those 'Invisible' heat sinks.  I'll have to earmark it for the next try.

And yes, I have the Sentinel image in mind, too.  But.. its not Battletech, and while I feel safe from lawsuits using canon art from Battletech products, but I decided early on to scrap using absolutely perfect images from other sci-fi games and artists online to play it as safe as possible.   :embarrassed:

Its not the game play I want.  Bottom line, I want mechs - not Protos - smaller Mechs.  I'm considering a d6 hit chart, one armor column with cut-offs for arms +arm weapons, Leg Destroyed, and some kind of emergency exit  'Abandoned' optional exit - the soldier could stay, but only a short IS bar remains and he's gonna die when it hits '0'.

That's about as far as I've gotten so far.  I'm almost done the 3rd revision to the Celestials, just 3 left.  Got some major chores to do this weekend, so I doubt I'll be getting anything done again.
...Visit the Legacy Cluster...
The New Clans:Volume One
Clan Devil Wasp * Clan Carnoraptor * Clan Frost Ape * Clan Surf Dragon * Clan Tundra Leopard
Work-in-progress; The Blake Threat File
Now with MORE GROGNARD!  ...I think I'm done.  I've played long enough to earn a pension, fer cryin' out loud!  IlClan and out in <REDACTED>!
TRO: 3176 Hegemony Refits - the 30-day wonder

 

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