Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter  (Read 14529 times)

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« on: 11 April 2020, 16:37:57 »
Firestarter
A futuristic lighter
Hear what Firestarter pilots probably say while fighting here.

In the beginning, a creature that would be an ancestor to the Man, discovered fire. And it discovered it liked fire. Fast forward hundreds of thousands of years into future, and the Man came up with the ultimate expression of pyromania: the Firestarter.

Debuting in 2550, the original Firestarter FS9-A (Argile?) was manufactured by Argile Technologies of Skye. At 35 tons, the Firestarter is at the heavy end of light 'Mechs, and does not use any advanced technology. Well armored for its size with 6.5 tons of Livingston Ceramics armor plate, about 87% coverage, enabling it to withstand common heavy weapons like PPCs in basically all locations. With the typical mobility for an Inner Sphere light 'Mech, the Firestarter's maximum speed is 96 KPH and has 180 meter jump capacity. While perhaps not quite enough for a scout or a striker (especially later on), it is reasonable for an incendiary specialist. Armament is simple and focused: total of four flamers in center torso (one rear-mounted) and arms, allowing for 360 degrees of roasting, and a couple of medium and small lasers for some anti-armor punch. The original Firestarter can run a bit hot but at time, that wasn't uncommon and in its specialist role this isn't a big issue. The FS9-A was mostly used by the Lyran Commonwealth and Terran Hegemony, later the Star League.

At this time, the sole variant was the FS9-K, used by Capellans judging by the Master Unit List despite the designation. This one trades a ton of armor and all but the center torso flamers for twin small lasers in the left arm and a large laser in the right arm. Given that this is used by the Capellans and knowing they like fire along with other dirty tricks, i'm mildly surprised at the reduction in flamers, but then again the Capellans have the Firebee for their pyromaniac tendencies. I'm not terribly impressed by this variant, though the large laser offers good punch for a light 'Mech, the loss of armor and poor secondary armament leaves me cold.

For the next 150 years the Firestarter would be unchanged, until the FS9-H (Hegemony?) debuted in 2703. Still using common technology, the FS9-H trades the small lasers and a ton of armor for twin machine guns with a ton of ammo. I have to ask, why? The original already roasts infantry utterly dead, the machine guns add nothing to this. Sure, they allow avoiding collaterral damage, but if that's a goal, you're not using the Firestarter in the first place! And the loss of armor is especially bitter, with only 74% coverage the limbs are especially weak against common large lasers. Regardless of my feelings on the matter, this would become the standard Firestarter across the Inner Sphere and beyond for the several next centuries.

In 2893, Argile Technologies came up with a scout variant, the FS9-M, nicknamed Mirage, presumably to emphasize it wasn't intended to be an incendiary 'Mech. This variant builds upon the FS9-H and trades away all the flamers for maxed out armor, two small lasers, and an additional heat sink. While not the most powerful light 'Mech, it is one of the toughest there is. Losing all the flamers is a bit disappointing since setting fires to cover a retreat is useful for a scout, but this is a minor issue. Definitively an asset to anyone having one. Unfortunately for Argile, this one did get produced only for a short while before their factory got destroyed. Argile opted not to rebuild the factory, leading to Coventry Metal Works picking up the design, though it would be nearly 60 years before they debuted another variant.

After the Succession Wars waned, the Helm Memory Core was found, triggering a technological renaissance, and it became evident the Man hadn't lost appetite for fire. In 3049, Coventry introduced first advanced technology variant of the Firestarter, the FS9-S. The biggest change from FS9-H is inclusion of endo-steel skeleton. The weight freed allowed addition of a Beagle Active Probe, enhancing the Firestarter as a scout design, and making life even more miserable for hiding infantry. The machine guns were exchanged for an anti-missile system and a small laser. There is a sub-variant, FS9-S1, that trades the Beagle for a Guardian ECM suite. I have to wonder why not drop the AMS and just have both electronic systems but i suppose advanced electronics were expensive at that time. Though a Lyran product, they evidently sold upgrade kits to everyone in the Inner Sphere and beyond.
In 3075 the FS9-S and FS9-S1 got upgrades, dubbed FS9-S2 and FS9-S3, respectively, that upgrade to double heat sinks, ER medium lasers, and light ferro-fibrous armor. These seem to have been initially Lyran exclusives, with limited spread after the Jihad.

Chronologically, the next Firestarter is the OmniMech version, FS9-O, covered in separate article, to be linked here later on.

In 3064 during the FedCom Civil War, Coventry Metal Works, presumably having moved primarily to the OmniMech version, tried to offer a simple variant of the normal Firestarter to the Periphery though without much success as the Firestarter was quite common in the Periphery already, with initially the Circinus Federation being the only buyer. The FS9-C (Circinus? Coventry?) uses double heat sinks and ferro-fibrous armor that is almost as good as the very first Firestarter's armor, and drops the torso flamers to add a battery of rocket launcher 10s and 15s. Powerful alpha striker (if only one time), it retains reasonable anti-armor and anti-infantry capabilities, making it quite well rounded design. Useful and flavorful for Periphery forces.

Around the same time, Circinus Federation debuted their own version, the FS9-P (Periphery), built on endo-steel skeleton and using double heat sinks, and seemingly manufactured in the small realm! I do wonder if the Blakists had a hand in this... The FS9-P retains the traditional arm weaponry but moves torso flamers to side torsos, and each side torso also has a small laser and SRM-2! The SRMs are fed by a ton of ammo in the center torso. Unfortunately, this cost the design half a ton of armor, leaving it with just 5 tons, just under 70% armor coverage, especially weak in the limbs. While interesting variant, with inferno SRMs being a natural fit, i'm not sure this is especially good one, though i suppose against lower tech Periphery enemies (read: single heat sink users), bunch of flamers and infernos is quite effective, and vehicles don't like this either.

Then, the Second Star League got disbanded and the weird second phone company of the Inner Sphere decided they needed to share their love of fire with everyone in the Inner Sphere, and to do that, they conquered Coventry and created their own incendiary monster in 3070. Or, well, a monster in insulting sense. The FS9-B (Blake?) is weird and inefficient. The Blakists really loved tweaking designs quite a lot, and the FS9-B is no exception. The 'Mech got a new light fusion engine, endo-steel skeleton, 5.5 tons of light ferro-fibrous armor, C3i system, lost its hands, and got its armament reduced. The center flamers are still there, as is the left arm flamer, while the right arm sports a single ER medium laser. Yeah, that's all, and now you will be wondering where did the rest of the mass go. The answer is: 8 improved jump jets. The FS9-B spends nearly a quarter of its mass for impressive if incredibly inefficient jump range. I say inefficient because bumping top speed a bit and using 7 standard jump jets would've left 2.5 tons for additional weapons or armor or whatever. The only "bright spot" here is that the jump jets don't generate much heat since the FS9-B uses single heat sinks.

Few years later, Defiance Industries had obtained few Capellan plasma rifles and decided to try to refit the Firestarter to better fight battle armor that was increasingly proliferating across the Inner Sphere, resulting in FS9-81X, based on old FS9-H chassis. A good idea to be sure, majority of battle armor weapons are dangerous at short range and the Firestarter can't exactly afford to trade fire with armored infantry. Unfortunately, corporate minds decided a prototype should do more than just use the new weapon and crammed in two medium x-pulse lasers in addition to the plasma rifle. To free weight for this, DI replaced the engine with an XXL model. I don't mind using XXL engines when the result allows for good or interesting results, but this is anything but. Even with double heat sinks, this thing runs really hot if jumping or using more than one or two weapons at once. Expensive engine on a chassis with mediocre armor and mobility for its era is a bad idea, and evidently everyone agreed as the design didn't get a production version in TRO Prototypes. Kinda disappointing though, a plasma rifle armed Firestarter has good potential.

The next variant appears 25 years later, right after the turn of the century, in 3101. Coventry opted to make a cheap, export-oriented Firestarter. For some reason, the designation is FS9-M2 even though this has no relation to the Mirage variant, perhaps it stands for "modernized"? Anyway, this is built with endo-steel skeleton, while retaining the standard engine and mobility as its predecessors but has 7 tons armor (nice!), with new looks. Armament is familiar if modified: each arm has a trio of flamers and the head has an ER medium laser. Additional double heat sink is included, allowing for jumping and roasting things or roasting and lazing things without worrying heat build-up. Simple and effective, this design spread across to the Inner Sphere to everywhere.

Few years later, in 3104 the FS9-M3 appeared. It trades half the flamers and a heat sink for half a ton of armor, an ER small laser, a TAG, and MASC. I'm not sure what to think. A trio of flamers is good enough for incendiary work to be sure, and the TAG is useful, but spending weight on MASC on a jumping design is dubious. It is flexible to be sure and far from the worst variant in BattleTech, better than that Blakist boondoggle to be sure!

Final variant debuts in 3109. The FS9-M4 "trades the laser and half the flamers of the -M2 for a rotary AC/2 with a ton of ammo" but TRO3145LC glosses over the fact the AC weights a bit more than that. Indeed, this is the first Firestarter variant to use an XL engine. A half ton of armor is also added. Like all -M2-series Firestarters, this one originates from MWDA where this appeared as "Firestarter MOD". Someone at WizKids really loved dakka and i can't say i blame them but the RAC/2 is a bit weird on a Firestarter. The FS9-M4 does pull interesting double duty as an incendiary specialist, anti-infantry and crit-seeker/anti-vehicle 'Mech, and is not out of place in the combined arms battlefields of the Dark Age. Unfortunately the short range of standard flamers and merely average mobility does make responding to different threats difficult. It certainly can be of use depending on unit composition, i kinda like it but ultimately it is just something one has to try and decide for themselves.

I am disappointed there is no ER flamer and/or heavy flamer variants, or even vehicle flamers, ammo based flamers have fun ammo options, inferno fuel for example would be very effective against most battle armor. And style-wise fluid guns would be awesome option as they have even more interesting "ammo" options. Other things that would be nice to see are MMLs for incendiary LRMs and inferno SRMs at once, and heat-dissipating armor, for when you set ablaze everything and need to survive the external heat. Perhaps the next time we get new variants...



So, how does one use the Firestarter? Play its strengths. That does apply, of course, to everything, but is especially true here. In combined arms games, the Firestarter crisps infantry quickly, and otherwise no 'Mech likes getting heated by three to six flamers depending on the variant, but don't bother tasking the Firestarter with killing 'Mechs or anything that isn't really bothered by fire. In introductory level games, additional heat is extremely dangerous, but is far from useless even during the era of double heat sinks. Of course, ideally a game with Firestarters could use fire rules (BattleMech Manual has simplified version) and the Firestarter would be running around setting fires and smoke screens, and flamer optional rules for dealing both damage and heat at once would be useful whether or not fire rules are in play.
Having something to draw most enemies attention helps the Firestarter do what it does best. Otherwise Firestarters need to be careful, with merely typical mobility for their weight class regardless of armor the Firestarters aren't too hard targets, especially once accuracy-enhancing weapons and equipment is around. Ideal unit for dealing with a Firestarter is faster than it and equipped with pulse lasers and/or targeting computer, the Firestarter's armor will quickly crumble under fire or at least it gets driven away momentarily. I also suggest fighting fire with fire, as ironically the Firestarters themselves are quite vulnerable to fire, many having only single heat sinks, and the most common type having even ammo on board.


Not much else to say, except that i reckon the Firestarter pilots' motto is "I love the smell of napalm in the morning".

The Firestarter is featured in TROs 3025, 3039, 3050, and SW, and XTRO Corporations.
The Firestarter at...
...MUL
...CamoSpecs
...Sarna.net

Crimson Dawn

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 696
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #1 on: 11 April 2020, 19:35:58 »
Don't know why but I always liked the firestarter.  Kind of wish it had hands and I agree there should be one that has ER flamers (perhaps in conjunction with standard flamers to have a combo of range and intense infantry destruction).

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #2 on: 11 April 2020, 23:41:39 »
One of the noteworthy Firestarter pilots is Star Colonel Rikkard . . . it was a good sign that he was piloting at least a Shadow Hawk IIC x in the novels, but Shattered Fortress stuff him back in a Firestarter.  Seemed they wanted to kill him . . .


Though the old school autobot looking head was interesting on the MWDA mini.

With that said, a pyro as a scout (BAP or ECM versions) is a interesting choice though IMO its better as a flanker when you are expecting conventional forces.

Too bad we did not get a updated look . . . I rather like the HBS Firestarter-
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9210
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #3 on: 12 April 2020, 10:54:04 »
Hear what Firestarter pilots probably say while fighting here.
I kinda figured it might be more like [size=78%][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUhOnX8qt3I[/size][/font]]this.   ;D


I like the Firestarter, though admittedly more as a concept than any specific variant.  The Mirage is nice, though it hardly counts as a Firestarter anymore.  The S and S1 are steps in the right direction, in act the S3 is probably my favorite Firestarter, but the armor is still worryingly thin.  I'm honestly a bit confused as to why the -A would ever have gone out of production.  It's certainly better than the -H.  The -H's armor makes sense, especially given that it was designed during the Star League and not meant for use in line units.  But even so, it's armor is awful.


I wouldn't bother trying to guess what the various letters "stand for".  We're given M for Mirage.  Great House letters for their house variant are often a safe bet, but then there's the K.  A, P, C, etc I just wouldn't bother with.  Could be the middle initial of the primary test pilot for all we know.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40835
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #4 on: 12 April 2020, 11:34:06 »
I love the Firestarter-P. Unless your opponent actually asks to see the record sheet, it's very easy to disguise one as a standard Firestarter, until the opportunity arises and you get to unload that 70-point rocket salvo into someone's back. :thumbsup:

Where's your source saying that it was built by Coventry? I always figured it was a Periphery refit of existing Firestarters.

Haven't had a chance yet, but I really want to try out the -M1 sometime.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #5 on: 12 April 2020, 12:14:13 »
I wouldn't bother trying to guess what the various letters "stand for".  We're given M for Mirage.  Great House letters for their house variant are often a safe bet, but then there's the K.  A, P, C, etc I just wouldn't bother with.  Could be the middle initial of the primary test pilot for all we know.
I usually don't mention designations, it is just this time they seemed clear enough. Thought about cutting the remarks but i suppose i forgot about that.

Where's your source saying that it was built by Coventry? I always figured it was a Periphery refit of existing Firestarters.

Haven't had a chance yet, but I really want to try out the -M1 sometime.
TRO3050U. "Coventry’s limited foray in the Periphery market   included a variant loaded with several one-shot rocket pods, ferro-fibrous armor and double heat sinks." I made an assumption Circinus was the sole customer at first due to MUL's Civil War availability for the variant. The next paragraph is about the Circinian's own variant. Wasn't 3064 around the time the WoB invested in the Circinus and built some factories there?

Fat Guy

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5003
  • I make beer disappear. What's your superpower?
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #6 on: 12 April 2020, 12:14:54 »
The Mirage is a great backstaber in introtech games. Pair it with Fire Javelins and/or Jenner Fs for a low BV lance that punches far above its weight.   :thumbsup:
I have spoken.


GreekFire

  • Aeternus Ignis
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3881
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #7 on: 12 April 2020, 12:31:31 »
It's nice that the new optional Flamer rule from the BMM gave most Firestarters a subtle but potent buff.

Doesn't really change which ones are my favorite, but certain variants like the -M2 become a bit more versatile on top of what they were already able to accomplish.
Tu habites au Québec? Tu veux jouer au BattleTech? Envoie-moi un message!

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #8 on: 12 April 2020, 12:46:33 »
I think the one with the RAC/2 would have been more true to it's parentage if you gave it a Plasma Rifle . . . but they were using a MWDA sheet so . . .
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #9 on: 12 April 2020, 13:20:13 »
It's nice that the new optional Flamer rule from the BMM gave most Firestarters a subtle but potent buff.
Not new in BMM i think, pretty sure the flamer buff is in TacOps already.

I think the one with the RAC/2 would have been more true to it's parentage if you gave it a Plasma Rifle . . . but they were using a MWDA sheet so . . .
For those who don't know, the -M2 series is pretty old really, originating in RS:MWDA (and TRO3145 sheets supersede those if there are differences). And as i noted, the RAC variant is based on a MWDA variant mini, eg: http://warrenborn.com/Unit.php?ID=F076
MWDA using designation "MOD" is curious, as that is usually applied to armed IndustrialMechs.

I do wish is that CGL had introduced more variants than just reusing those from RS:MWDA. Triple ER flamers in each arm, or mixture of flamers. Or plasma weapons. Hell, a mixed tech variant with Clan plasma cannons would've been lovely.

Makes me wonder if Rikkard Nova Cat's Firestarter is modified with Clan tech.


garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6647
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #10 on: 12 April 2020, 14:22:52 »
With the # of games i've played in that did NOT have infantry, BA or vehicles, i was really surprised at the # of times i still saw folks taking a fire starter, just to start fires, and create smoke screens..
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #11 on: 12 April 2020, 14:30:34 »
Off hand, flamers aren't actually very common. Few 'Mech variants mount them (Hot Hammers in particular), and many 'Mechs that do have them aren't necessarily very good, so i'm not surprised the Firestarter is picked for pulling lighter duty.

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9593
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #12 on: 12 April 2020, 15:53:54 »
Yeah, the Firestarter is a excellent anti infantry mech that unfortunately came about when few played infantry.

Had one friend at my game table that was deadly with the little guy though. While the Firestater didn't get any kills it self, it would use wolfpack tactics to shutdown a mech via overheat for a friendly mech with more firepower to knock down. He actually band himself from using the Firestarter as a OF mech in future games as he found it too easy for himself to set up kills while GMing a campaign.

Other than that, use it just like the flamethrower of old to clear out dug in units and clear hindering terrain with the in game benefit of creating smoke screens as posted above.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12028
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #13 on: 12 April 2020, 16:13:32 »
i'm surprised the -81X never got an official production model. you could easily bring it down to standard production tech with an XL, endo, and standard MPL's (or ERML's and some extra armor and ammo). and that plasma rifle would make it a pretty potent scout hunter as well as letting it do the anti-infantry role from even farther away. would also make it effective as an anti-BA platform as well, which the standard flamers don't really do. (since they don't do extra damage to BA, and you gotta get way to close)
« Last Edit: 12 April 2020, 16:16:06 by glitterboy2098 »

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #14 on: 12 April 2020, 16:27:27 »
i'm surprised the -81X never got an official production model. you could easily bring it down to standard production tech with an XL, endo, and standard MPL's (or ERML's and some extra armor and ammo). and that plasma rifle would make it a pretty potent scout hunter as well as letting it do the anti-infantry role from even farther away. would also make it effective as an anti-BA platform as well, which the standard flamers don't really do. (since they don't do extra damage to BA, and you gotta get way to close)
I can think of a few reasons. First, the Firestarter's specialized nature means it isn't high on list for newest upgrades for production variant. Two, for most tasks the Firestarter is tasked, it may have been seen as good enough already and the plasma rifle not adding much to that. Third, this was merely a Defiance Industries experiment (remember, the Firestarter is a Coventry Metal Works product)*, and they resurrected the Eisenfaust few years later with the plasma rifle. While the Eisenfaust does different job than the Firestarter, initial plasma rifle supply probably wasn't big enough for two different designs. And then there's the StarCorps version of the Wight which is armed with a plasma rifle and sold in the Lyran Alliance.

Furthermore, the S2/S3 upgrades were just introduced, a plasma variant would be competition. Indeed, as i noted, it took some 25 years before the next Firestarter appeared, and that was in form of a cheap export design.

*This actually makes the "PlasmaStarter" being a DI experiment really weird. Why work on a competitor's design?
« Last Edit: 12 April 2020, 16:29:32 by Empyrus »

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9210
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #15 on: 12 April 2020, 16:41:05 »
Off hand, flamers aren't actually very common. Few 'Mech variants mount them (Hot Hammers in particular), and many 'Mechs that do have them aren't necessarily very good, so i'm not surprised the Firestarter is picked for pulling lighter duty.
The Hot Hammer is one of my favorite little-known variants.  I wish it had gotten a proper LosTech upgrade.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #16 on: 12 April 2020, 16:47:19 »
The Hot Hammer is one of my favorite little-known variants.  I wish it had gotten a proper LosTech upgrade.
Oh yes, so very much.

Looking at flamer options on MML, introtech 'Mechs only.
Several Fleas. Hermes and Hermes II. Cicada, Valkyrie, Spider, Commando, and Wasp variants. Vulcan. Few others. And honestly, most are lackluster as 'Mechs.
Most have one flamer only, and those with more, like the aforementioned Hot Hammer, are most likely better at other tasks. No wonder the Firestarter gets picked for incendiary duty even with no infantry in a game.

Starfury

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 791
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #17 on: 12 April 2020, 16:51:43 »
The Firestarter also makes for a great gunfighter if you take it down the Fire Javelin route.  Eliminating a flamer or two for a medium laser and armor is a nasty light or even medium mech killer.



I like the Firestarter. It's a great example of a well designed specialty mech.  I would love to see a Clan version one day....

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #18 on: 12 April 2020, 17:04:04 »
I would love to see a Clan version one day....
I suppose a Clan-tech using version is a possibility but a Clan version per se is not. The Firestarter doesn't really fit the Clan idea of warfare... and OmniMechs tend to make the idea of specialized 'Mechs largely moot anyway, just mount flamer pods if absolutely necessary.

As for using Clan-tech, as i noted earlier, plasma cannons would be awesome. Good range (18 hexes), light weight (only 3 tons). Sure, doesn't do damage to 'Mechs but the Firestarter has never been a damage dealer anyhow, so this is largely a moot issue. 2-3 plasma cannons create enough heat even most double heat sink designs don't like getting blasted with plasma.

Ruger

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5574
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #19 on: 12 April 2020, 17:28:05 »
I suppose a Clan-tech using version is a possibility but a Clan version per se is not. The Firestarter doesn't really fit the Clan idea of warfare... and OmniMechs tend to make the idea of specialized 'Mechs largely moot anyway, just mount flamer pods if absolutely necessary.

I cordially invite you to review alternate configuration E of the Hellion.

 ;)

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9210
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #20 on: 12 April 2020, 17:36:43 »
I suppose a Clan-tech using version is a possibility but a Clan version per se is not. The Firestarter doesn't really fit the Clan idea of warfare... and OmniMechs tend to make the idea of specialized 'Mechs largely moot anyway, just mount flamer pods if absolutely necessary.

As for using Clan-tech, as i noted earlier, plasma cannons would be awesome. Good range (18 hexes), light weight (only 3 tons). Sure, doesn't do damage to 'Mechs but the Firestarter has never been a damage dealer anyhow, so this is largely a moot issue. 2-3 plasma cannons create enough heat even most double heat sink designs don't like getting blasted with plasma.
I could see Malvina’s Falcons building a Firestarter IIC.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #21 on: 12 April 2020, 17:45:11 »
I cordially invite you to review alternate configuration E of the Hellion.

 ;)

Ruger
Just proved my point, it is an Omni config if you absolutely need to torch something. No point in a specialized design when an Omni does that. I'd imagine the Hellion-E is not commonly used in practice among the Clans.
I could see Malvina’s Falcons building a Firestarter IIC.
I said Clan version, not Malvina's Falcons  :P

Minemech

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2762
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #22 on: 12 April 2020, 21:56:49 »
 The challenge of the Firestarter is that it is excellent at what it does, but competitors tend to be more versatile.

 I want to say that there was a famous Firestarter pilot in Rolling Thunder.

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12028
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #23 on: 12 April 2020, 22:22:43 »
I can think of a few reasons. First, the Firestarter's specialized nature means it isn't high on list for newest upgrades for production variant. Two, for most tasks the Firestarter is tasked, it may have been seen as good enough already and the plasma rifle not adding much to that. Third, this was merely a Defiance Industries experiment (remember, the Firestarter is a Coventry Metal Works product)*, and they resurrected the Eisenfaust few years later with the plasma rifle. While the Eisenfaust does different job than the Firestarter, initial plasma rifle supply probably wasn't big enough for two different designs. And then there's the StarCorps version of the Wight which is armed with a plasma rifle and sold in the Lyran Alliance.

Furthermore, the S2/S3 upgrades were just introduced, a plasma variant would be competition. Indeed, as i noted, it took some 25 years before the next Firestarter appeared, and that was in form of a cheap export design.

*This actually makes the "PlasmaStarter" being a DI experiment really weird. Why work on a competitor's design?

still you'd expect Coventry Metal Works to learn about Defiance's testbed and try to duplicate the loadout themselves. Competing with Defiance over plasma rifle carrying platforms would be good for business.. especially since the firestarter was already an existing platform and thus would be the more attractive option from a logistics standpoint.


and at a guess, the choice of the Firestarter as the platform was because the prototype was made at the Kwangjong-ni plant. which was a former secret automated Rimworlds mech factory. since the RWR produced the firestarter through Diplass Technologies on Timubuktu, odds are that the factory had the plans and it was picked as a known design they could easily redesign to fit the hardware they wanted to test. (since the other types would likely have been things like the PX-3R Phoenix and RMP-5G Rampage, which had been extinct in the IS for centuries.)
« Last Edit: 12 April 2020, 22:28:01 by glitterboy2098 »

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3454
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #24 on: 12 April 2020, 22:25:42 »
The challenge of the Firestarter is that it is excellent at what it does, but competitors tend to be more versatile.

Yeah, the Hermes II or Vulcan, for example.

Like many, I have a soft spot for the Firestarter.  But its flamers and the design became obsolete as soon as the game introduced inferno ammo.  After infernos, anything with an SRM-2 (and later any size SRM launcher) — even much cheaper combat vehicles and infantry — could basically do what a Firestarter did and better with triple the range.

Quote
I want to say that there was a famous Firestarter pilot in Rolling Thunder.

Robert Blackwell in the Fire Lance.  Spots for the Archer in the same lance, which is not a bad secondary role for a mech that may often find itself with targets out of reach.  If you have to run a Firestarter, make sure it has something to spot for elsewhere in your unit.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25030
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #25 on: 13 April 2020, 06:55:55 »
If the guy is driving a Firestarter for the Rolling Thunder company. Their either daring or pulling some serious crazy stuff while driving it.  ;D  They were gutsy bunch.  I hope they get some love someday again.

I personally like the Mirage variant Firstarter since its bit tougher. I did feel the DA appearance of the Firestarter visually was ugly as heck.  MWO was improvement, but i didn't like the head.  It lost it's unique look.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #26 on: 13 April 2020, 07:27:04 »
Like many, I have a soft spot for the Firestarter.  But its flamers and the design became obsolete as soon as the game introduced inferno ammo.  After infernos, anything with an SRM-2 (and later any size SRM launcher) — even much cheaper combat vehicles and infantry — could basically do what a Firestarter did and better with triple the range.
Infernos do come with their own disadvantages though. Explosive, heat sensitive ammo. Small SRMs with infernos are less effective at dealing with infantry. And depending on the design, using ammo slot for infernos may not be advisable.

Overall, i do agree with you though.

Despite the SRMs, i didn't rate the FS9-C very high because mixing a couple of small SRMs with only a ton of ammo with several flamers felt dubious and inefficient. One or the other, or at least use more SRMs and fewer flamers.

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
  • How can a bird be sultry? Very carefully.
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #27 on: 13 April 2020, 07:56:35 »
Despite the SRMs, i didn't rate the FS9-C very high because mixing a couple of small SRMs with only a ton of ammo with several flamers felt dubious and inefficient. One or the other, or at least use more SRMs and fewer flamers.
There are other options though admittedly your limits are pretty massive when working with SRM-2s.

I think I'd end up using Tear Gas SRMs with that variant, or Frag. Maybe TC or Acid. But Inferno's admittedly not my first choice there.
« Last Edit: 13 April 2020, 07:58:34 by Caedis Animus »

Minemech

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2762
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #28 on: 13 April 2020, 09:37:53 »
I did feel the DA appearance of the Firestarter visually was ugly as heck.
I think they were going for a cross between a welder, and a guy in super fire resistant battle armor suit. They were trying to be faithful to the fact that you should fear the raw plasma that was coming from those tanks, but it came at the cost of the original look. Wizkids did try hard to make the game popular to gaming audiences, and succeeded. I respected their staff for their work, even if I did not always agree with their choices.

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4498
    • Tower of Jade
Re: 'Mech of the Week: FS9-* Firestarter
« Reply #29 on: 13 April 2020, 09:49:40 »
With the # of games i've played in that did NOT have infantry, BA or vehicles, i was really surprised at the # of times i still saw folks taking a fire starter, just to start fires, and create smoke screens..

Back in the day I used a modified Firestarter that dropped the MGs and arm mounted flamers for small lasers and medium lasers respectively. Great little scout hunter. And kept the torso flamers for starting fires and generating smoke.
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)