'Mech of the Whenever: TSN-XX Tessen

[GreekFire]

Anyone who likes the Vulcan has a very different aesthetic sense from me.

WUDDUP

Hunh, I love the look of the Tessen. Different strokes, I guess.

Yeah, looks fine. But there's a reason I chose the FM:Comstar art over the TRO:3067 piece.

[grimlock1]

True, but even if the LRM boat isn't in the Tessen's network (Lack of C3, or ECM breaking it temporarily), it still works unless the target can huddle in a friendly ECM bubble.  A missile, particularly LRM, heavy force is one time you might consider deploying a Tessen even without a C3 network to back it up.

Huddling around their ECM can have downsides too.  If you your Viking has a ton of Swarm ammo. >:D

Unfortunately, Bola rounds are only available to standard Narc launchers.

Boo.  Hiss.

As to removing iNARC pods, a +4 PSR is not something I'm looking forward to.  Figure average piloting skill of 5.  And prime targets for things like an ECM or Haywire pod are going to be the big hitters, which often as not will sacrifice actuators for crits.  Something from the same sourcebook, like the Vanquisher would be looking at...  Huh.  BMM revised the rules the punching rules for mechs built w/o hand or lower arm actuators.  No more To Hit Penalty for a Rifleman trying to punch.  Just a damage reduction. (BMM 48, TW 145, and TW Errata 4.4, pg 26).  So no +7 PSR to that hypothetical Vanqisher, but a PSR target of 9 is still not going to give me warm fuzzies.

You can stack multiple pods on some poor sod, right?  Hit the same poor mook with Homing, ECM, and Haywire?

How effective how people found the Nemesis pods to be? I've not played with them, or Swarms for that matter, because it always seems like setting up the shot where that would activate is overly finicky.  Swarm seems a bit easier but setting up the angles so Nemesis pods will come into play?  I'm not that good.   That and I always thought the fact that a Nemesis pod can be used to fool hostile ARROW-IV or Semi-Guided missiles into attacking one of their own units but couldn't be set up to attract fire from friendlies was a annoyingly arbitrary rule.   And if I can't use it the way I think it ought to be used then I'm not going to use it and if you have a problem with that I'm going to take all my toys and go home!

Wow... I didn't even know that was in there.  I think my therapist and I have some things to talk about. 

There are worse looking mechs. There are even worse looking mechs from Loose.

I won't call it great, but it doesn't look horrible. Although the shoulders do look interesting - how many pieces does the mini come in?

Huh?  Plog's name is on the art FM:Comstar, and TRO:3067 is done by Plog, Chafee, Vohwinkel.

[Colt Ward]

Originally it did have Nemesis attracting Homing A4, but that changed between versions IIRC but I looked at that a couple of weeks ago for the EWar mech discussion.  Nemesis gets more useful if you expect to run into someone spamming Semi-G . . . It does not specifically address some of the TacOps ammos or gear-  Artemis V, Apollo FCS, ARAD missiles though ARAD's behavior with NARC pods implies it works with Nemesis.

TM w/ the Battlemaster cover, 3rd Printing
      Originally for hostile NARC munitions, upgraded to include attracting Artemis IV, Semi-G and A4 homing from friend or foe- it does not say anything about LOS

TM w/ retro cover, 3rd printing?
      Same, nothing about LOS.

Thing is, nothing in the TM entries tell me how that works- does it roll up like Swarm?- and I cannot find descriptions in other places or how to determine the hit.  A4 & LOS from the Sarna (citing FM ComStar) requirement made no sense to me, most homing is fired IDF which means technically no LOS so the wording in TM is better.  The way TM reads to me is it attracts any missiles in range on the whole map.

[Greatclub]

Wow... I didn't even know that was in there.  I think my therapist and I have some things to talk about. 
Huh?  Plog's name is on the art FM:Comstar, and TRO:3067 is done by Plog, Chafee, Vohwinkel.

I'm saying that it took 35 years before the new version of the stalker stopped looking like a {redacted due to board rules}



I just found something interesting

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=7072.msg160185#msg160185
https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Tactical-Operations-2019-12-06-v3.03.pdf

3) Before the “Communications Equipment” section, insert the following new subsection:
ECM Pod: The iNarc ECM Pod (see p. 141, TW) can also be used to generate an ECCM field. Each time a player
fires an ECM Pod, he declares whether it is a standard ECM Pod or an ECCM Pod.

That's right, shoot somebody with an E(c)CM pod and they stop bringing down your C3i net.

[grimlock1]

Originally it did have Nemesis attracting Homing A4, but that changed between versions IIRC but I looked at that a couple of weeks ago for the EWar mech discussion.  Nemesis gets more useful if you expect to run into someone spamming Semi-G . . . It does not specifically address some of the TacOps ammos or gear-  Artemis V, Apollo FCS, ARAD missiles though ARAD's behavior with NARC pods implies it works with Nemesis.

It never attracted friendly Arrow IV.  I understand why they did it.  They probably felt like being able to TAG someone, permanently, at least until they knock the beacon off, was a bit OP.

TM w/ the Battlemaster cover, 3rd Printing
      Originally for hostile NARC munitions, upgraded to include attracting Artemis IV, Semi-G and A4 homing from friend or foe- it does not say anything about LOS

TM w/ retro cover, 3rd printing?
      Same, nothing about LOS.

Thing is, nothing in the TM entries tell me how that works- does it roll up like Swarm?- and I cannot find descriptions in other places or how to determine the hit.  A4 & LOS from the Sarna (citing FM ComStar) requirement made no sense to me, most homing is fired IDF which means technically no LOS so the wording in TM is better.  The way TM reads to me is it attracts any missiles in range on the whole map.

Tech Manual is just build rules with a few usage rules that snuck in when no one was looking. Battlemech Manual 108, or TW 142 have Nemesis rules.
The first two conditions for Nemesis are that the Nemesis tagged unit is along LOS between the shooter and the target, and that a valid LOS exits between the shooter and Nemesis tagged unit, (BMM 108).  But after posting a rules question, it only applies to units EXACTLY on the LOS.  Say A & B are friendles and C a hostile, 20 hexes away on a dropship tarmac. Assume A and C are facing each other's front and the LOS is dead vertical. B move to C's #2 hexside, at 1 hex range, where C hits it with a Nemesis.  In this case, B has nothing to fear, because it's not directly in line from A to C.

So even if the other side is spamming Semi-guided, Artemis, or Narc, I still question the effectiveness of Nemesis because one hex left or right will take the Nemesis unit out of the LOS from shooter to target.


Swarms are covered in TO, pg 371, but the short version is that any LRMs that don't hit the primary target, try to attack anything else in the target's hex or any adjacent hex, with the remainder of the flight. Secondary targets are attacked using a To Hit penalty.  So as long as the enemy maintains 1 hex separation, Swarms are no better than regular LRMs.  Also, Swarms don't much care who they attack, friend or foe.  So could very easily earn the emnity of a Berserker pilot by using Swarms on a mech that she's trying  smash.  Swarm-I mitigates that some with an IFF modifier. 

[Weirdo]

I haven't actually used them, but thinking about it, Nemesis pods become easier to take advantage of the closer the fight is. Think of it in geometric terms. The closer you are to a hex containing a Nemesis-tagged unit (let's call it the Nemesis Hex for simplicity), the larger the portion of the battlefield that must shoot through that hex to reach you. If you get adjacent to the Nemesis Hex, it could potentially be a very large part of the battlefield that must now contend with the Nemesis Hex, or shoot at someone else. This problem becomes even worse the more Nemesis pods you manage to stick. This principle also works in reverse. If two enemies are adjacent to each other, and Enemy A has a Nemesis, Enemy B now has a large shadow into which they do not want to fire.

Again, this is all purely theoretical, with no battle experience behind it. But assuming the logic is sound, it tells me Nemesis is most useful when you want to be right in the enemy's face, and/or when you want to discourage your opponent from bunching up in tight groups.

(And yes, I am aware that the tactical problem of getting that close to enemies that don't want you there and may express that displeasure with weapons fire may be of nontrivial difficulty. That part must be resolved with your tactical skills.)

Regarding Swarms - it is my understanding that firing into or through hostile ECM turns both kind of Swarm into regular LRMs.

[Colt Ward]

It never attracted friendly Arrow IV.  I understand why they did it.  They probably felt like being able to TAG someone, permanently, at least until they knock the beacon off, was a bit OP.

Latest printing of TM (pg 223) still says it attracts Homing A4 rounds (but not tube's Cooperheads?) . . . thanks for finding the LOS part, b/c I thought it was a difference between TMs which is why I looked at them rather than a change in description between TM & TW.  Its also why I questioned things firing from IDF- b/c technically they lack LOS between firing unit and target.

With that said, I do think Haywire is way more useful than Nemesis in most situations.

[GreekFire]

BMM revised the rules the punching rules for mechs built w/o hand or lower arm actuators.  No more To Hit Penalty for a Rifleman trying to punch.  Just a damage reduction. (BMM 48, TW 145, and TW Errata 4.4, pg 26).  So no +7 PSR to that hypothetical Vanqisher, but a PSR target of 9 is still not going to give me warm fuzzies.

? My version of the BMM still has a to-hit penalty for missing actuators listed on page 40.

Re: Nemesis rounds, I actually asked a very specific question on the rules board which does add utility to it as a defensive weapon, especially in urban environments. Hexes and buildings may be targeted with the pods, meaning that you can build up a pretty decent defensive position by podding hexes surrounding an important locations/buildings/units, or put one or two in the middle of an important intersection to divert incoming fire.

But that favors defensive units like the Bardiche more than it does the Tessen.

[Colt Ward]

? My version of the BMM still has a to-hit penalty for missing actuators listed on page 40.

Re: Nemesis rounds, I actually asked a very specific question on the rules board which does add utility to it as a defensive weapon, especially in urban environments. Hexes and buildings may be targeted with the pods, meaning that you can build up a pretty decent defensive position by podding hexes surrounding an important locations/buildings/units, or put one or two in the middle of an important intersection to divert incoming fire.

But that favors defensive units like the Bardiche more than it does the Tessen.

Considering explosive pods could be used against the terrain or buildings, I am not sure why it could not . . .

[GreekFire]

Considering explosive pods could be used against the terrain or buildings, I am not sure why it could not . . .

Well, a strict interpretation of the rules would disallow it, since all mentions of the mechanics talk about a "nemesis-tagged unit", and hexes/buildings aren't units.

But it's a moot point since it got clarified.

[Empyrus]

iNarc is good and overall the Tessen 1C/1Cr variants are good as iNarc carriers while possessing sufficient firepower and armor to do other stuff as well, but unfortunately the thing is too ugly to be usable.
Someone mentioned the Vulcan, which is far cooler looking design, and incidentally would serve as a pretty good platform for iNarc (thanks to its good mobility) with few modifications.

A pity the iNarc is such a rare weapon system. Weirdly rare even during the Dark Age even though pretty much all tech has spread everywhere.

[grimlock1]

Latest printing of TM (pg 223) still says it attracts Homing A4 rounds (but not tube's Cooperheads?) . . . thanks for finding the LOS part, b/c I thought it was a difference between TMs which is why I looked at them rather than a change in description between TM & TW.  Its also why I questioned things firing from IDF- b/c technically they lack LOS between firing unit and target.

With that said, I do think Haywire is way more useful than Nemesis in most situations.

If I hit your Owens with a Nemesis, it will attract your Arrow IV missiles.  But it has no effect on Arrow IV's that I fire. As to Copperheads, TO basically says to treat Copperheads exactly like TAG-Arrow IV munitions.  So I say it works.

? My version of the BMM still has a to-hit penalty for missing actuators listed on page 40.

Re: Nemesis rounds, I actually asked a very specific question on the rules board which does add utility to it as a defensive weapon, especially in urban environments. Hexes and buildings may be targeted with the pods, meaning that you can build up a pretty decent defensive position by podding hexes surrounding an important locations/buildings/units, or put one or two in the middle of an important intersection to divert incoming fire.

But that favors defensive units like the Bardiche more than it does the Tessen.

Uh, you're right about the missing actuator thing.  I just looked at the tables in the back.

I think Nemesis would also be useful for an attacker in an urban setting.  Sprinkle Nemesis pods into buildings and force the defender to risk damaging their own city in order to attack you.