Author Topic: MotW: Predator  (Read 5992 times)

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21743
  • Third time this week!
MotW: Predator
« on: 06 May 2020, 21:50:02 »

"Don't eject, don't eject, don't eject, don't EVER eject, don't eject..."

When it comes to getting rid of enemy airpower, there's no shortage of good reasons to clear the skies. Even a light aerospace fighter can cause untold calamities to an enemy army, and a few fighters from a Leopard CV can absolutely end a planetary defense before it even has a chance to begin. So mobile AA is an important thing to have, and few weapons excel at the job more than the classic LB-10X. Some may argue that the LB-5X or even the LB-2X are superior for the job (and I'd at least allow for the 5 to be a great tool for the job), but the 10 is the benchmark for telling enemy aircraft to go away. Many Mechs and vehicles pack one, and some- like the Inner Sphere's Bandersnatch- even pack two, for double the lawn-darting fun. The Clans' Omnimechs allow for easy creation of an AA platform like this (try it with a Hellbringer!), but rear-echelon units like provisional garrison clusters don't always have easy access to that kind of gear- and certainly are in no less danger of raiders with air support. Interestingly, it was a non-invading Clan that came up with a... unique... solution to the issue. Let's explore the Predator.

...and yes, we'll get to the cockpit, hang on.

A rare situation in which the many and assorted Kindraas of the Fire Mandrill Clan got along enough for something tangible to result, the Predator excels at its job thanks to some very smart design choices. Out of universe, we know that a 60-ton chassis is rarely as effective as one would find a 55 or 65-ton chassis, but it still makes for a low-end heavy in the vein of the old Rifleman in many ways. The Predator's engine is pretty Clan-standard stuff, a 300XL allowing it to move at a 5/8 clip. That's plenty enough to keep up with most Clan heavies, and that's important- your mobile AA isn't much use if it isn't mobile enough to keep up with the rest of your army (see: Oro tank). It's interesting that by TRO:3060's debut, a 5/8 heavy has become almost ho-hum boring, where ten years earlier this Mech would have felt like witchcraft. The relentless march of progress, right? The engine has the standard ten double-strength heat sinks. Interestingly, the engine is the only area we see the usual Clan weight-saving tricks- the armor and structure are both bog-standard stuff, likely an effort to keep those resources available for frontline units. (Remember, this isn't a Clan that has access to the bounties of the Inner Sphere)

Your mobile AA doesn't do much good if it drops dead after the enemy's fighter makes a pass or two either, of course. Predators need to be a bit rugged to take the abuse an enemy bird can cause, as well as in their other role as a brawler/tank valet. We find a remarkably tough little Mech as a result- while the armor is only standard plating, it carries a surprising eleven tons of it. That makes it remarkably tough for its size, outperforming similar-sized Clanners like the Hellfire and even the famously-tough Cauldron-Born. That's great news for Predator users- it won't wilt after a few hits. As usual for a Clan Mech, CASE is built in, making it even tougher to put down.

OK, so we discussed the cannons earlier, twin LB-10X in what we can agree are very unusual-shaped mountings in the shoulders. Really, LBX guns rarely are shown with multiple barrels (more on this later), making for what is almost certainly the most unusual aspect of the Predator's looks, right?... OK, ok,  no getting around the elephant in the room here. Due to the cannons' vibration making life hell on the pilot in the usual cockpit location, the pilot now sits in an unfortunate crotch position on the Predator. This isn't as weird as it might seem at a glance- after all, we've seen a similar cockpit location from other Mechs in the past, like the Black Hawk and Catapult- they're just not as humanoid and vertical to make it look as weird. On an AA-oriented Mech it's probably not the BEST decision, but luckily it doesn't have any effect in-game. (Nor does this qualify, as per standard game rules, as a torso-mounted cockpit!). The cannons are fed by two tons of amo in each side torso, a pretty standard loadout that probably should lean 75/25 in favor of cluster rounds. Two arm-mounted ER medium lasers in Warhammer-esque mountings provide some extra muscle at mid-ranges, and a pair of uniquely hip-mounted ER small lasers give a slight boost in close as well. Overheating can be a problem- don't overdo it.

A single variant exists, a pretty basic weapon swap from the Jihad era that puts in a pair of HAG-20s in place of the LBX guns. The small lasers remain where they were (as, presumably, does the pilot!), but the arms now contain medium pulse lasers in place of the old ER models. This is a fun one, giving the same great 'your airplane sucks' potential of the original with better backup weapons to boot, at the risk of the HAGs' little exploding problem when hit. The author also likes this version for another reason- the LBX guns on the original looked odd for LBX weapons, as noted earlier, but look about right for HAGs, allowing one to simply say the art shows a Predator 2 (despite not existing for a while yet- hey, work with what you have!).

Using a Predator is simple- target aircraft and kill them. If there's no aircraft, target vehicles and park them. Target Mechs with open wounds from things like PPC hits and find yummy crits. Repeat as needed. You're quick enough to deploy to good positions as needed, tough enough to take a few spare hits if needed, and nasty enough that enemies can't ignore you safely. If zellbrigen isn't a factor, they make excellent bodyguards for LRM boats and the like, forcing an enemy to deal with the Predator and its guns before being able to safely engage other targets. And of course, against vehicles, a Predator is just wrong- heavy and expensive tanks simply cease to operate after a turn or two of being pummeled.

Facing one... suuuuucks. The damn things don't die easy, and when they do it tends to be by being torn limb from limb over time rather than 'find this weakness and exploit it!' as you might with other units. They don't react well to being sneaked up on- with the big guns torso-mounted and the arms not being flippable, a sneaky Dragonfly or Pack Hunter can find themselves facing weaker armor and a single arm laser as their only threat in reply, an excellent situation to be in! Otherwise there's not much to be happy about when fighting one- tough, powerful, surprisingly agile, and a general pain. The Mandrills may not have liked each other much, but in this case they got their idea down perfectly.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

worktroll

  • Ombudsman
  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25648
  • 504th "Gateway" Division
    • There are Monsters in my Sky!
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #1 on: 06 May 2020, 22:27:25 »
Welcome back again! Nice writeup on one of the more aesthetically challenged designs.

Although I would point out one other famous AA specialist with a low torso located cockpit (and room for a wet bar) - the JagerMech. This is what JagerMechs want to be when they grow up ...
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

Kojak

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4612
  • Melancon Lives!
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #2 on: 07 May 2020, 00:58:42 »
Years later, the Inner Sphere would unknowingly make a near-carbon-copy of this 'Mech, in the form of the Rifleman 6X.

Also, yes, good to have you back.


"Deep down, I suspect the eject handle on the Hunchback IIC was never actually connected to anything. The regs just say it has to be there."
- Klarg1

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #3 on: 07 May 2020, 01:16:01 »
This is one of two mechs the monkeys had in TRO3060/67 that caused great sadness . . . because they were great fun designs and would never really make it to the IS.  Unlike the Crimson Langur, the Predator DID make it to the IS in some numbers since they were not viewed as rare or a 'WTF is that thing?' when it appeared in fiction.  One at least made it to the Dark Ages as it appears in some of the fiction there . . . I want to say with mercs.

To be honest, I never paid attention to the cockpit being there . . . I always pictured it as the Canis was set up- the two mechs do look very similar.  Are the cannons built into the mini's torso that way?  I have never gotten this mini though due to the period when it came out I am not sure I would- they had too many parts.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6647
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #4 on: 07 May 2020, 01:49:06 »
Never heard of this mech before.  BUT nice write up..
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
  • How can a bird be sultry? Very carefully.
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #5 on: 07 May 2020, 03:57:56 »
I'll admit, the Predator's existence and design has always been a trouble spot to me. While I'm aware there isn't a twin LBX autocannon variant of the Hunchback IIC, it baffles me that the Clans have the outright perfect starting point in a Battlemech already purpose built to handle the rigors of firing twin autocannons-much higher caliber ones, to boot.

Not to mention, the boring, menial, beneath-a-Mechwarrior task of 'shoot planes' is still right up some venerable old coot of 28's alley. I just don't get why they spent so much effort to design something that they could've made so simple.

EDIT; Yeah, I realize that last part applies to nearly everything Battletech related.
« Last Edit: 07 May 2020, 04:05:50 by Caedis Animus »

Ruger

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5574
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #6 on: 07 May 2020, 06:18:55 »
Something about this design never worked quite right for me. Possibly its look, possibly something else.

As to trying twin LB’s on a Hellbringer, I prefer my personal Hellbringer take on the old Rifleman.

Ruger
"If someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back." - Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall...Stand with me." - The Doctor, The Doctor Falls, Doctor Who

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #7 on: 07 May 2020, 06:24:42 »
Ahh the good 'ol Crotchpit! The Predator's a very capable design, 4 tons of ammo means you can use solid and cluster rounds without having Summoner Prime issues of not having one type of ammo and not the other. The backup weapons are adequate and unless you fire EVERYTHING you won't have any issues with heat. An excellent article as always :)
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25030
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #8 on: 07 May 2020, 07:06:33 »
Its pretty surprising machine, that's for certain.  With rise of quirks, i have (don't' got books on me) wonder if notes something torso mounted cockpit or something.

Reading the Wars of Reaving book and it's companion , the Predator didn't appear to be one the extinct ones given what happened to the Fire Mandrills.

Welcome back to doing articles, Jadehellbringer! I always enjoy your colorful reviews!
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Luciora

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5814
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #9 on: 07 May 2020, 08:30:17 »
Is that where the cockpit is?  Huh, mine is painted with the cockpit being the half cylinder between the barrels.

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #10 on: 07 May 2020, 08:39:50 »
Some pilots just like not being housed in the ammo drums.  ;)
Wouldn't you why you wouldn't pick a mech for AA duty for a binary.
You'll get the same mobility and resistance to criticals. What's not to like?
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Tymers Realm

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1292
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #11 on: 07 May 2020, 08:55:56 »
Its pretty surprising machine, that's for certain.  With rise of quirks, i have (don't' got books on me) wonder if notes something torso mounted cockpit or something.

The BMM lists it as Cramped Cockpit, Difficult Ejection. Which by the art, I could agree with.

garhkal

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6647
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #12 on: 07 May 2020, 15:32:04 »
Perhaps it ejects out the 'mechs butt'.. :P :P
It's not who you kill, but how they die!
You can't shoot what you can't see.
You can not dodge it if you don't know it's coming.

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9594
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #13 on: 07 May 2020, 19:09:38 »
Perhaps it ejects out the 'mechs butt'.. :P :P
;D beat me too it.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Sjhernan3060

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1820
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #14 on: 07 May 2020, 20:29:03 »
Thanks for the nice write up! I am recently stripped and primed my predator mini and I am torn as to if I should place it in my blood spirit alpha galaxy or kindraa mick kreese force...

As the mick kreese folks have a big aero bias I think fluff wise the predator makes more sense there

GreekFire

  • Aeternus Ignis
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3881
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #15 on: 07 May 2020, 20:48:45 »
I've been playing with the Predator a ton lately, and I'm gonna have to go against the grain here. I really, really, don't like it.

Using it as an AA or anti-tank 'Mech works great, and I'd probably be more OK with it had the fluff painted it as one, but instead they put forward that the Predator is a line 'Mech able to 1v1 other 'Mechs in its weightclass without trouble...which wasn't the case in most of my games. Its firepower isn't heavy enough nor long-ranged enough to be able to to that well. Having the main weapons in the Torsos also don't help it against faster targets. It struggles.
Tu habites au Québec? Tu veux jouer au BattleTech? Envoie-moi un message!

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40839
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #16 on: 07 May 2020, 20:55:00 »
Thanks for the nice write up! I am recently stripped and primed my predator mini and I am torn as to if I should place it in my blood spirit alpha galaxy or kindraa mick kreese force...

As the mick kreese folks have a big aero bias I think fluff wise the predator makes more sense there

That actually means that Predator makes less sense in the Mandrill force. If they've got a heavy aero bias, then they're covered as far as air superiority is concerned. They don't need AA mechs, they've got fighters for that job.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Sjhernan3060

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1820
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #17 on: 08 May 2020, 17:57:46 »
That actually means that Predator makes less sense in the Mandrill force. If they've got a heavy aero bias, then they're covered as far as air superiority is concerned. They don't need AA mechs, they've got fighters for that job.

Interesting! My mick kreese force will be aero and proto heavy so looks like it is going to the spirits!

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25831
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #18 on: 09 May 2020, 02:20:26 »
Perhaps it ejects out the 'mechs butt'.. :P :P

"What are you doing?"
"Loading your ejection system."
"That is a giant whoopee cushion."
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

UnLimiTeD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #19 on: 09 May 2020, 02:38:48 »
 ;D And if the ejection system fails, the mech just casts some wind?
How often do clans in their native environment actually need AA cover?
Savannah Masters are the Pringles of Battletech.
Ooo! OOOOOOO! That was a bad one!...and I liked it.

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
  • How can a bird be sultry? Very carefully.
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #20 on: 09 May 2020, 03:16:03 »
;D And if the ejection system fails, the mech just casts some wind?
How often do clans in their native environment actually need AA cover?
Depends on who they are fighting, I guess. Snow Ravens? You'll probably see them trying to wedge aerospace in there. Ghost Bear? Probably not.

Orin J.

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2785
  • I am to feared! Aw, come on guys...
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #21 on: 09 May 2020, 11:18:26 »
come on guys, it's just childish to make jokes about ejecting out the butt- clearly there's a blastaway panel under the cockpit that ejects the pilot safely via an inflatable slide.

Personally i've always liked this 'mech's looks, after all it's a walking double-barrel shotgun. sometimes you want a wall of guns and that is exactly what it is.
The Grey Death Legion? Dead? Gotcha, wake me when it's back.....
--------------------------
Every once in a while things make sense.


Don't let these moments alarm you. They pass.

Weirdo

  • Painter of Borth the Magic Puma
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Major General
  • *
  • Posts: 40839
  • We can do it. We have to.
    • Christina Dickinson Writes
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #22 on: 09 May 2020, 12:02:37 »
Depends on who they are fighting, I guess. Snow Ravens? You'll probably see them trying to wedge aerospace in there. Ghost Bear? Probably not.

Every Clan uses aero to some extent, and given the hyperaggressive nature of most Clan commanders, combat drops are likely more common in Clan Trials then in the Inner Sphere, especially when safcon is denied. Also, the twin-shotgun armament of the Predator will make it magnificent against the VTOLs that are likely highly prized by Bandit Caste groups for their high speed and ease of hiding.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
"...I was this many years old when I found out that licking a touchscreen in excitement is a bad idea." - JadeHellbringer
"We are the tribal elders. Weirdo is the mushroom specialist." - Worktroll

Deadborder

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7883
  • Technical Victory!
    • Elmer Studios Blog
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #23 on: 09 May 2020, 20:57:49 »
Unlike the Crimson Langur, the Predator DID make it to the IS in some numbers

The Crimson Langur is availible to both the Raven Alliance and the Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes after the Jihad
Author of BattleCorps stories Grand Theft Agro and Zero Signal



How to Draw MegaMek Icons the Deadborder Way. Over 9000 so far. Determination or madness?

Sjhernan3060

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1820
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #24 on: 08 April 2023, 18:40:17 »
I've been playing with the Predator a ton lately, and I'm gonna have to go against the grain here. I really, really, don't like it.

Using it as an AA or anti-tank 'Mech works great, and I'd probably be more OK with it had the fluff painted it as one, but instead they put forward that the Predator is a line 'Mech able to 1v1 other 'Mechs in its weightclass without trouble...which wasn't the case in most of my games. Its firepower isn't heavy enough nor long-ranged enough to be able to to that well. Having the main weapons in the Torsos also don't help it against faster targets. It struggles.

I appreciate your candid review. Is there a place for it as a bodyguard Mech or a striker? I am going to put in my Blood spirit alpha galaxy and the way that unit is shaping up is more heavy or medium weight mechs

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25030
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #25 on: 12 April 2023, 07:05:09 »
I appreciate your candid review. Is there a place for it as a bodyguard Mech or a striker? I am going to put in my Blood spirit alpha galaxy and the way that unit is shaping up is more heavy or medium weight mechs
I do think it's be a good bodyguard unit.  As a Striker, it can run around like hooligan and taking out smaller units. Surprising good unit as a 60 tonner, which I think is pretty rare having heavy in low end of the heavy weight class.
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #26 on: 12 April 2023, 09:17:52 »
I've been playing with the Predator a ton lately, and I'm gonna have to go against the grain here. I really, really, don't like it.

Using it as an AA or anti-tank 'Mech works great, and I'd probably be more OK with it had the fluff painted it as one, but instead they put forward that the Predator is a line 'Mech able to 1v1 other 'Mechs in its weightclass without trouble...which wasn't the case in most of my games. Its firepower isn't heavy enough nor long-ranged enough to be able to to that well. Having the main weapons in the Torsos also don't help it against faster targets. It struggles.

Perhaps the Ulric/Gargoyle answer?  Declare you are going for the 'upper' and the target's pilot goes through the LBX blender.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Sjhernan3060

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1820
Re: MotW: Predator
« Reply #27 on: 14 April 2023, 06:08:45 »
I do think it's be a good bodyguard unit.  As a Striker, it can run around like hooligan and taking out smaller units. Surprising good unit as a 60 tonner, which I think is pretty rare having heavy in low end of the heavy weight class.

Thanks! I will give it to a spirit officer as mark that he is tight with the mandrills