FEDCOM Mech Production 3040's - Help Wanted

[Hellraiser]

Hello all, 

I've been working up a list of Mech production between the Wo39 & the Clan Invasion for the combined FedCom.

Specifically just the decade of the 40's & just Intro Tech models is what I'm looking at.

Below is what I've come up with so far.

Please let me know if you see an error & I need to add/delete from the list.



Locust - Furillo & New Avalon
Stinger - Coventry
Wasp - Furillo & New Avalon
Hornet - Wernke/Talon
Commando - Coventry
Valkyrie - Hesperus & New Avalon
Firestarter - Coventry
Wolfhound - Tharkad & Arc Royal


Vulcan - Coventry
Hatchetman - Hesperus
Phoenix Hawk - Coventry & New Avalon
Centurion - New Avalon & Panpour (3047)
Chameleon - Hesperus
Enforcer - Hesperus & New Avalon
Dervish - New Avalon
Griffin - Oliver, Hesperus, Wernke/Talon
Wolverine - Nanking
Kintaro - Ozawa

Rifleman - Nanking, Pandora,  Twycross, & Wernke/Talon
Crusader - Oliver & Tharkad
Jagermech - Wernke/Talon
Thunderbolt - Sudeten
Archer - Carlisle & Hesperus
Cataphract - Tikonov
Warhammer - Sudeten   (Possibly Crofton &/or Son Hoa???  Project Phoenix, TRO3050, & TRO3039 seem to conflict)
Flashman - Hesperus
Marauder - Carlisle & Kathil


Zeus - Hesperus & Furillo
Battlemaster - Pandora & Twycross
Longbow - Crofton & Loburg
Stalker - Twycross
Banshee - Hesperus
Atlas - Hesperus
Devastator - New Avalon
Marauder-II - New Valencia

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Here is a good starting point. There'll be some false positives in there based on battle salvage, but they should be obvious and easy to prune out.

[Onion2112]

Hi Hellraiser,

Looks like you have missed some Sarna March worlds.

Wolverine at Nanking (mentioned in both TRO 3039 and Objective Raids)

Cataphract at Tikonov (TRO 3039)

Victor at Styk (This factory was being rebuilt during this period - or may have been already rebuilt by the time of the clan invasion)

Regards

Peter

[Ruger]

You do not have anything for the StarCorps facility on Son Hoa, which should be producing the Longbow and Highlander assault 'Mechs and maybe the Warhammer...

Ruger

[Hellraiser]

Here is a good starting point. There'll be some false positives in there based on battle salvage, but they should be obvious and easy to prune out.

Thanks, unfortunately that isn't actually that accurate for a couple reasons.

1.  It only lists things that STARTED production in that era, not what was currently in production from previous eras.

2.  Much of it is field variants & not actual factory models.

That said, It did remind me of Tikonov & the Cataphract facility they had there so adding that to the list.

[Hellraiser]

Hi Hellraiser,

Looks like you have missed some Sarna March worlds.

Wolverine at Nanking (mentioned in both TRO 3039 and Objective Raids)

Cataphract at Tikonov (TRO 3039)

Victor at Styk (This factory was being rebuilt during this period - or may have been already rebuilt by the time of the clan invasion)

Regards

Peter

Thank you,  had the Nanking on my note pad but forgot to type it here  /doh.

Just recalled the Tikonov now based on above comments.

I love the Victor, but, from what I could find, the 9B was never produced there since the factory started up producing the 9D model during the clan invasion & the Suns lost Quentin in Wo39 so it looks like for a decade they were stuck repairing facilities & buying everything from the St. Ives Compact.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

It does have its limitations.

But you could put in availability instead of production.

From your OP I thought you wanted to parse out legacy availabilities.

[Hellraiser]

You do not have anything for the StarCorps facility on Son Hoa, which should be producing the Longbow and Highlander assault 'Mechs and maybe the Warhammer...

Ruger

I can't find a source that the Longbow is produced on Son Hoa,  only Crofton & Loburg which I mentioned.

The Highlander was just doing rebuilds in that era & didn't start up full production till the mid 50's IIRC.

I'm not sure about the WarHammer, it looks like they just started producing it in the 60's with the Reseen newtech models & never produced the 6R but please direct me to a source if you have one.

Hmm, I do have a note here in TRO3039 that mentions production but nothing in TRO3050 when the 7S was introduced.

It looks like "maybe" there was production on Son Hoa &/or Crofton in the Intro Tech era but I'm not so sure.

[nckestrel]

Chameleon on Hesperus II.
TR3058U mentions it wasn't destroyed during the Succession Wars, and it closed down the Chameleon line in 3052.

[Hellraiser]

Chameleon on Hesperus II.
TR3058U mentions it wasn't destroyed during the Succession Wars, and it closed down the Chameleon line in 3052.

Thanks!

[abou]

Axman in 3048 at both Furillo (Defiance) and New Syrtis (Johnston) -- source TRO3050 Upgrade and MUL

That is the big one I think you are missing.

[nckestrel]

Axman in 3048 at both Furillo (Defiance) and New Syrtis (Johnston) -- source TRO3050 Upgrade and MUL

That is the big one I think you are missing.

He just wants introtech models.

[abou]

Yeah, I know. But leaving out the Axman feels like a bit of a... hatchet job.

[(SMD)MadCow]

I'm not finding that the Champion was made on Corey, or the Enforcer or Valkyrie on Hesperus.

[assaultdoor]

What's your source for the Champion being produced on Corey? Sarna mentions it, but the only source they site is RS: 3039, and that's for the BV. Record sheets don't list factory locations.

[(SMD)MadCow]

TRO 3039 has the Kintaro KTO-18 being made on Ozawa by General Dynamics.
And Rifleman 3N on Nanking.

**Scorpion and Goliath on Oliver - Nevermind, those got glassed in 2837.
**Striker 2C/2S - Nope, glassed in 2867, lasted longer than the Cyclops line though.
**Emperor 5A is out too: even though it's intro tech, TRO3058 states the factory was destroyed 2612 and not re-opened until 3057.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

TRO 3039 has the Kintaro KTO-18 being made on Ozawa by General Dynamics.

The Diplan Mechyards have been retconned off of Ozawa and onto Aix-la-chappelle.  The Kintaros said to have been made on Ozawa might have been made in the Combine instead.

[(SMD)MadCow]

The Diplan Mechyards have been retconned off of Ozawa and onto Aix-la-chappelle.  The Kintaros said to have been made on Ozawa might have been made in the Combine instead.

Diplan is not General Dynamics, looks like a new factory was built just for the model 18 during the 3rd Suc. per the 3039 TRO.

[Wotan]

I'm still not sure how to handle the Trebuchet. Handbook Davion list its production at New Avalon. TRO3039 only list the primary factories and doesn't include New Avalon. TRO3050 also lists only primary factories and doesn't include New Avalon. Furthermore saying that the listed 3 are the only surviving.
But even if the Trebuchet is not produced directly at New Avalon the text in the handbook indicate that Corean receives them as profit payments from the Steward branch.

[Ruger]

I can't find a source that the Longbow is produced on Son Hoa,  only Crofton & Loburg which I mentioned.

The Highlander was just doing rebuilds in that era & didn't start up full production till the mid 50's IIRC.

I'm not sure about the WarHammer, it looks like they just started producing it in the 60's with the Reseen newtech models & never produced the 6R but please direct me to a source if you have one.

Hmm, I do have a note here in TRO3039 that mentions production but nothing in TRO3050 when the 7S was introduced.

It looks like "maybe" there was production on Son Hoa &/or Crofton in the Intro Tech era but I'm not so sure.

Well, one source does say the 'Mech factory was nuked and destroyed in the Second Succession War by House Marik, and was not rebuilt until 3057, building Emperor's and Highlander's...

Oh well...

Ruger

[Cache]

What's your source for the Champion being produced on Corey? Sarna mentions it, but the only source they site is RS: 3039, and that's for the BV. Record sheets don't list factory locations.

Can't access my books right now, but I'd check TRO:3025 Revised. That's the first appearance of the -2N, isn't it?

[nckestrel]

Can't access my books right now, but I'd check TRO:3025 Revised. That's the first appearance of the -2N, isn't it?

In the Champion entry, it just says Bergan Industries. They're no New Earth, I don't see anything about them having a Corey plant.  Corey is Hollis.

TR3039 does says "The cappellans were left to unlock the secrets of the Champion on their own in the 3040s". I'm assuming somebody guessing based on that reference, but there's no mention of corey and no mention of the Capellans actually manufacturing any new Champions. The line quoted above is just after "in the hopes of upgrading their own Champions".  after the paragraph before says Liao has the most Champions left from the SW. So perhaps refitting, not new production, and definetely not being done on behalf of the FedCom...

[MarauderD]

I operate off of headcanon most times, but as a Fed Suns fanatic, I have to agree with (SMD)Madcow that the Enforcer and Valkyrie are not in production anywhere in the LC half of the Commonwealth.

For introtech, I believe the JagerMech is on Talon, and the Dervish is in production somewhere in the FedSuns.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Can add the Shadow Hawk, Lang Industries (TRO3025) on Caph
*Sarna cites the TRO3025 in the destruction of this factory, but mine makes no mention of it(1986).

[Colt Ward]

For Tao MechWorks on Styk, you are likely looking as the factory was built to produce the 9D as the factory needed to be totally rebuilt.  With the parts retcon, everything was in place to have it made- even if they used Gauss-X rather than proper rifles for the first runs.  Or it built -9B while working out the kinks in producing the MPL, ES and Gauss in the -9D . . . which could explain why Victor did not have a 9D Victor.

[Cache]

In the Champion entry, it just says Bergan Industries. They're no New Earth, I don't see anything about them having a Corey plant.  Corey is Hollis.

TR3039 does says "The cappellans were left to unlock the secrets of the Champion on their own in the 3040s". I'm assuming somebody guessing based on that reference, but there's no mention of corey and no mention of the Capellans actually manufacturing any new Champions. The line quoted above is just after "in the hopes of upgrading their own Champions".  after the paragraph before says Liao has the most Champions left from the SW. So perhaps refitting, not new production, and definetely not being done on behalf of the FedCom...

Now that I'm in front of my books, I can't find anything either. If you look at the TRO:3039 entry for the Highlander, you'll see the word "Corey" in a paragraph next to the picture of a Champion (used as the SL 'Mech page header image). That's the closest I see it to getting produced on Corey. I've removed the erroneous statement from the wiki page.

[Hellraiser]

I'm not finding that the Champion was made on Corey, or the Enforcer or Valkyrie on Hesperus.

The Enforcer & Valkyrie both spread to Hesperus around the 4th SW IIRC, its not from a TRO but I believe its a note in the 4th SW Atlas books IIRC.  (Possibly 20 year update?)
The Suns picked up Hatchetman production from the Lyrans as well as part of that whole share everything with the merger.

What's your source for the Champion being produced on Corey? Sarna mentions it, but the only source they site is RS: 3039, and that's for the BV. Record sheets don't list factory locations.

It was mentioned on Sarna.

I didn't even know Bergan had a factory on Corey but that is what Sarna was saying.

I seem to recall that in the days before the MUL, when they were fluffing which SLDF downgrades were still around & history was being rewritten & things like the Flashman got assigned to be produced on Hesperus, that house Liao had the Champion in their Faction list for 3025 where as other houses didn't.
So it might have been the revised TRO3025 that had them producing it.

History conflicts a bit, as TRO2750 has the Champion still being in production on New Earth at 2 factory sites & has an in universe date of 3049 IIRC.
Then later TRO's say that factory was destroyed in 2776 IIRC.
Yet even later sourcebooks mention that the Factories were intact & stripped of advanced production components in 2788 during Operation Silver Shield which is how the Royal Locust went away.
So the authors have contradicted themselves a bit over the years, go figure.

Now that I'm in front of my books, I can't find anything either. If you look at the TRO:3039 entry for the Highlander, you'll see the word "Corey" in a paragraph next to the picture of a Champion (used as the SL 'Mech page header image). That's the closest I see it to getting produced on Corey. I've removed the erroneous statement from the wiki page.

I'm glad you said you deleted it.
I was starting to think I was crazy since its gone now & I just read it over the weekend.

[Hellraiser]

TRO 3039 has the Kintaro KTO-18 being made on Ozawa by General Dynamics.
And Rifleman 3N on Nanking.

Thanks!
Added

Objective Raids & TRO3050 don't have it at Nanking but Sarna does confirm the 1N was produced there originally.
4th SW Atlas just always refers to it as a Wolverine factory.
Perhaps the 3N line was brought back on line after they captured it in the 4th war in time for 3039.   Hmmm.
I'll add it since it seems odd that the 1N would be there but not the 3N.

[Hellraiser]

I'm still not sure how to handle the Trebuchet. Handbook Davion list its production at New Avalon. TRO3039 only list the primary factories and doesn't include New Avalon. TRO3050 also lists only primary factories and doesn't include New Avalon. Furthermore saying that the listed 3 are the only surviving.
But even if the Trebuchet is not produced directly at New Avalon the text in the handbook indicate that Corean receives them as profit payments from the Steward branch.

Handbook Davion might be right.
It has a 3067-ish in universe date right?
So they might have put it in production when all the Project Phoenix designs from Vicore were ramping up across the IS but it wasn't actively produced there during the SW or clan invasion period.
Given what 39 & 50 both say I'll assume it wasn't but its nice to know it might eventually be made there.

[Hellraiser]

I operate off of headcanon most times, but as a Fed Suns fanatic, I have to agree with (SMD)Madcow that the Enforcer and Valkyrie are not in production anywhere in the LC half of the Commonwealth.

For introtech, I believe the JagerMech is on Talon, and the Dervish is in production somewhere in the FedSuns.

See my notes above, the Enforcer/Valkyrie are not found in the usual places.  Its a note in 4th SW Atlas, not in a TRO listing.

The Jager & Dervish are both in my list above already at Talon & New Avalon respectively.

[Hellraiser]

Can add the Shadow Hawk, Lang Industries (TRO3025) on Caph
*Sarna cites the TRO3025 in the destruction of this factory, but mine makes no mention of it(1986).

Based on the sarna notes it looks like the destruction is mentioned in the 1st SW book or LoT1

[Hellraiser]

For Tao MechWorks on Styk, you are likely looking as the factory was built to produce the 9D as the factory needed to be totally rebuilt.  With the parts retcon, everything was in place to have it made- even if they used Gauss-X rather than proper rifles for the first runs.  Or it built -9B while working out the kinks in producing the MPL, ES and Gauss in the -9D . . . which could explain why Victor did not have a 9D Victor.

Based on my searching it looks like it started production in 3054/3055 range per Objective Raids which still had it finalizing the 9D line after rebuilding the destroyed factory.

What parts retcon are you referring to Colt?

[Wotan]

Handbook Davion might be right.
It has a 3067-ish in universe date right?
So they might have put it in production when all the Project Phoenix designs from Vicore were ramping up across the IS but it wasn't actively produced there during the SW or clan invasion period.
Given what 39 & 50 both say I'll assume it wasn't but its nice to know it might eventually be made there.

Even when it is not produced there directly, we know that Corean New Avalon have direct access to FWL produced Trebuchets. So Davion also have access to factory fresh Trebuchets (made on Steward, but sold from New Avalon). In my eyes that qualifies.  ;)

[Colt Ward]

Based on my searching it looks like it started production in 3054/3055 range per Objective Raids which still had it finalizing the 9D line after rebuilding the destroyed factory.

What parts retcon are you referring to Colt?

Gauss Rifle X available towards the end of War of 3039, and the production Rifle shortly afterwards.
Med Pulse in production in 3037 IIRC.
Endosteel was mid 30s when I looked it up.

And while it may have been finalizing the -9D line we have I think quite a few cases where a cheaper/simpler model is produced for a couple of test runs before going to the more advanced design.  Finally, Obj Raids has its own problems but it was also before the materials retcon happened, so now instead of '49-52 being when the IS recovered tech and a couple years to get it into production you now have earlier dates than '49 available for introduction.

[skiltao]

the Enforcer/Valkyrie are not found in the usual places.  Its a note in 4th SW Atlas, not in a TRO listing.

If I remember correctly, the 4th SW Atlas doesn't specify which site is building them. I've always assumed it was on Furillo, because of something the Steiner house book says about production lines waiting idle there.

[Colt Ward]

Didn't Furillo end up building the Enfield?  A Enforcer line would have been ideal to transform to that mech after '58.

[Hellraiser]

Gauss Rifle X available towards the end of War of 3039, and the production Rifle shortly afterwards.
Med Pulse in production in 3037 IIRC.
Endosteel was mid 30s when I looked it up.

And while it may have been finalizing the -9D line we have I think quite a few cases where a cheaper/simpler model is produced for a couple of test runs before going to the more advanced design.  Finally, Obj Raids has its own problems but it was also before the materials retcon happened, so now instead of '49-52 being when the IS recovered tech and a couple years to get it into production you now have earlier dates than '49 available for introduction.

Ah, you mean the prototypes. 
I thought you were talking about something I hadn't heard of.
Those really won't help getting it produced earlier on Styk since even the Liao & Kurita factories didn't have the Victor-9K up & running before 3049 based on the MUL.
The Objective Raids quote of the line being ready for production "soon" with an in year date of 3054 pretty much lines up with the other fluff about the Tao Styk factory.
We know it was destroyed by retreating cappies in 4SW.
We know Davion rebuilt it to build something different than its original line because it was such massive destruction that it was nearly a full rebuilt.
That something was chosen to be the Victor after they lost the Quentin factory in 39. 
I don't know how long it takes to build a fully functional mech factory from the ground up but if they didn't start it till after the lost Quentin then that puts it at 15 years to complete.
That "seems" slow but then again, I think we have some quotes in fiction of some similarly long construction times after factories were destroyed so I wouldn't be surprised .

[Hellraiser]

If I remember correctly, the 4th SW Atlas doesn't specify which site is building them. I've always assumed it was on Furillo, because of something the Steiner house book says about production lines waiting idle there.

I'm not sure but Sarna has the Valk listed as Hesperus.

[(SMD)MadCow]

I'm not sure but Sarna has the Valk listed as Hesperus.

Uh, where?

[Hellraiser]

Uh, where?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Defiance_Industries#Hesperus_II

[nckestrel]

I'm not sure but Sarna has the Valk listed as Hesperus.

Sarna lists the exact same source, the 4th Sw atlas that he was talking about.  And objectives Lyran, which is set in 3079.
So it doesn’t really add anything.

[(SMD)MadCow]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Defiance_Industries#Hesperus_II

Ok, because the actual Valk entry doesn't show it.

[2ndAcr]

 Valk was New Avalon. Star League factory and IIRC 130 or so per year. Last fully automated line known about, Corean Enterprises. Sarna says Vicore started building them on Demeter in 3067.

[nckestrel]

4th SW Atlas vol 1. p42.
"Defiance Industries began manufacturing Valkyrie and Enforcer BattleMechs in 3025".

[MarauderD]

Interesting!  I'm going to have to reread that.  I've always looked at canonicty like House Sourcebook 3025-->TRO's-->Objectives (the original being really wonky)--> everything else.

In my head (which is a bizarre place) I thought that from 3028 to 3050, you'd find the odd Valk and Enforcer in traditional LC regiments, but not in any great numbers.  Then when the Enfield was brought online (when was that, anyway?) that would replace older ENF-4R in Lyran half line regiments. 

Cheers to you for compiling this list!  Is there a hard date you are setting?  3040ish for your findings?

[Colt Ward]

Hellraiser, even if you do not go with any factory customization on Styk for making a -9D with some of the prototypes, or using the retcon tech introduction dates to move it up,  nothing says the Tao factory was not making the -9B in the 3040s before being taken offline to refit to the -9D.  The latter design could have been how the factory was set up to take advantage and the -9B runs '45-49 were 'tests' for operational ability.

[Hellraiser]

Hellraiser, even if you do not go with any factory customization on Styk for making a -9D with some of the prototypes, or using the retcon tech introduction dates to move it up,  nothing says the Tao factory was not making the -9B in the 3040s before being taken offline to refit to the -9D.  The latter design could have been how the factory was set up to take advantage and the -9B runs '45-49 were 'tests' for operational ability.

We have 3 lines about Tao itself.....
1.  It was custom rebuilt to produce the 9D.   (Not 9B)
2.  They rebuilt it to compensate for the loss of Quentin (Wo39)
3.  Finally it says it is just finishing in 3054.

Lastly, we have the original quote from TRO3050 that says the Suns was forced to purchase all Victors from the SIC.

Its not 100% statement that it was NOT running, but, those 4 lines lead me to believe that it wasn't running in 3040.
Not that it couldn't have been, but the 4 pieces of cannon fact that we have isn't leading me in that direction.

And I'm looking for as close to cannon fact as I can get here.

Something like the Warhammer above is conflicting data, but this all points in the 1 direction so I'm thinking its a no go for (homegrown) Victors at that time.

[Hellraiser]

Cheers to you for compiling this list!  Is there a hard date you are setting?  3040ish for your findings?

Thanks,  I started assembling this for a personal project.

The specific era of that project was essentially Post-Wo39 up to the explosion of new tech designs in the Clan Invasion era  (Roughly 3041-3048)

I found out a few things I hadn't realized before, like the Kintaro being in production for Davion.

[Hellraiser]

Valk was New Avalon. Star League factory and IIRC 130 or so per year. Last fully automated line known about, Corean Enterprises. Sarna says Vicore started building them on Demeter in 3067.

Correct, we have that, this was in regards to added production by Defiance from a 4th SW Atlas quote.

[truetanker]

What about the Fireball? IIRC, it's a FedCom design prototyped around 3025 or so...

TT

[Cache]

What about the Fireball? IIRC, it's a FedCom design prototyped around 3025 or so...

Fireball went into production in 3053: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1075/

[truetanker]

My bad misremembered the mech... it's the Sentinel. I recalled wrongly, they were still being produced in 3014, but discontinued due to lack of advanced parts and interest. But other than that would have still been able be made.

TT