VTOL question

[bblaney]

Can a VTOL, if it is an Omni, use some of its pod space for Infantry transport?

[KaiserDunk]

I would imagine so, but like Omni-Mechs, why take up valuable pod space for infantry (or cargo) when you could mount weapons or heat sinks instead?   Given the weight limits for VTOLs, weapons weight and space would be at a premium.

[nckestrel]

Think of it the other way. Why always have dedicated transports when you can convert them to gunships when you are not carrying anything?

[Wereling]

Think of it the other way. Why always have dedicated transports when you can convert them to gunships when you are not carrying anything?

One of the reasons I like the Infantry version of the Cavalry. It's actually not a terrible gunship in addition to its uses as a transport.

[Retry]

I would imagine so, but like Omni-Mechs, why take up valuable pod space for infantry (or cargo) when you could mount weapons or heat sinks instead?   Given the weight limits for VTOLs, weapons weight and space would be at a premium.

Yes, OmniVTOLs can use space for infantry cargo.

One of the biggest selling points of omnis is role versatility.  You can convert a single chassis from a front-line general combatant, to an engineering combat vehicle, to an IFV, to an APC, to an electronic-warfare vehicle, to a flying kitchen, to a minelayer/minesweeper, to a mobile FOB, to a cargo hauler, to a water-hauling fire truck, to a medivac vehicle, etc.  If your omni-vehicle could fill the role and you don't have at least one variant on the books, are you really using it to your full potential?

At least that was my thought process when I designed my first IS omni-VTOL, which I fluffed to be based on an old prototype cargo helicopter.  There's definitely a lot of roles an omni can fulfill that don't involve direct combat.

[bblaney]

Yes, OmniVTOLs can use space for infantry cargo.

One of the biggest selling points of omnis is role versatility.  You can convert a single chassis from a front-line general combatant, to an engineering combat vehicle, to an IFV, to an APC, to an electronic-warfare vehicle, to a flying kitchen, to a minelayer/minesweeper, to a mobile FOB, to a cargo hauler, to a water-hauling fire truck, to a medivac vehicle, etc.  If your omni-vehicle could fill the role and you don't have at least one variant on the books, are you really using it to your full potential?

At least that was my thought process when I designed my first IS omni-VTOL, which I fluffed to be based on an old prototype cargo helicopter.  There's definitely a lot of roles an omni can fulfill that don't involve direct combat.

Thanks. Thought so.

[I am Belch II]

The answer on a vehicle VTOL  is a yes.

[Col Toda]

I went another way . Took a Karnov replaced the ICE engine with a fuel cell one and kept the same speed . With the saved weight I converted the 6 tons of Cargo to an  8 ton infantry compartment 18 pts of standard armor F/R/L and 16 rear with a small laser front . The Small laser could be replaced with 500 KG support weapon instead . Omni vehicles tend to fusion and have a 50% Surcharge so you can have 2 cheaper to replace purpose built VTOLs for the price of an Omni VTOL or a lance + if it has an XL engine . Omni anything is more a Clan cultural artifact that stops making sense with greater resources in man power and resources . The above Fuel Cell infantry carrier costs less than 1.2 million C Bills. Any Light or  XL Fusion Omni with the similar stats would be 3 to 5 + million C bills respectively .  For a defensive unit there is no reason to ever field . Offensively just having a bigger dropship to carry different role VTOLs just makes more sense. A recon / infantry carrier you want the fastest IE heaviest engine you can put in to get the job done . For an attack bird you want the lightest so you can arm and armor it to what is optimal .  An omni umit uses the same engine so you eithier have to go XL engine or suck at something . AN XL Fusion Engine Omni ought to cost as much as 4 + Fuel Cell VTOLs and 8 + ICE VTOLs . Fuel Cell VTOL's have the motor power of a light fusion engine approximately . This is why VTOL Omni is less than optimal . I do not see why not that pod space can be an infantry compartmet . I just do not expect it be done well in a VTOL .

[Retry]

I went another way . Took a Karnov replaced the ICE engine with a fuel cell one and kept the same speed . With the saved weight I converted the 6 tons of Cargo to an  8 ton infantry compartment 18 pts of standard armor F/R/L and 16 rear with a small laser front . The Small laser could be replaced with 500 KG support weapon instead . Omni vehicles tend to fusion and have a 50% Surcharge so you can have 2 cheaper to replace purpose built VTOLs for the price of an Omni VTOL or a lance + if it has an XL engine . Omni anything is more a Clan cultural artifact that stops making sense with greater resources in man power and resources . The above Fuel Cell infantry carrier costs less than 1.2 million C Bills. Any Light or  XL Fusion Omni with the similar stats would be 3 to 5 + million C bills respectively .  For a defensive unit there is no reason to ever field . Offensively just having a bigger dropship to carry different role VTOLs just makes more sense. A recon / infantry carrier you want the fastest IE heaviest engine you can put in to get the job done . For an attack bird you want the lightest so you can arm and armor it to what is optimal .  An omni umit uses the same engine so you eithier have to go XL engine or suck at something . AN XL Fusion Engine Omni ought to cost as much as 4 + Fuel Cell VTOLs and 8 + ICE VTOLs . Fuel Cell VTOL's have the motor power of a light fusion engine approximately . This is why VTOL Omni is less than optimal . I do not see why not that pod space can be an infantry compartmet . I just do not expect it be done well in a VTOL .

The Omni surcharge is 25%, not 50%.  I could make a Karnov Lite omni with fairly close specifications (25 tons, 11 cruise, fusion engine, 8 ton infantry bay, 18/13/10 armor front/side/rear) for under 1 million C-Bills, and I could convert the machine to a good fire-support VTOL by switching the pod troop space for a PPC, an IS ERLL, or even a Clan-spec ERLL or Pulse laser if I could get my hands on some.  There's also other roles I could convert it for like EW, C3 or spotting, or I could convert the machine back to the original's role of cargo hauling, especially in times of peace, instead of messing around building 5 different VTOL chassis without interchangeable parts who become obsolescent whenever technology outpaces them.

A Light or XLE fusion engine is expensive, but a good VTOL design with that & ferro-lamellor armor can be easily worth its price tag.

Offensively "just having a bigger dropship" doesn't seem more reasonable than going omni.  I'm fairly certain that constructing an entirely new, custom, larger dropship so you can pack several roles of VTOLs instead of a wing of Omnis is, in fact, more expensive than just using an omni design in the first place.

[Col Toda]

Ferro Laminar armor never becomes commonly available.  ICE and Fusion always commonly available .  Fuel Cell engines for combat vehicle uncommonly available until 3071then common  , XL fusion Available 3041 , Light Fusion 3065 commonly available . Laser Reflective gets made by everyone at some point . I chose 18 and 16 points of standard armor against a lucky Gauss Rifle hit during the hopefully short window of deploying battle armor or infantry . Theoretically my choice is advanced and possible in all ERAs and common Tournement Legal 3071+  . An FL armored  Omni VTOL might be Experimental 3075 ? Advanced in later years and I do not think it becomes tournement legal tech even in the 3145 Dark Age . The Clans have very few stock mechs with FL armor and would not like to sacrifice any to vehicle construction if you could help it . Inner sphere units that Maintain a Solaris VII stable could perhaps keep running a lance of light vehicles with experimental tech easy enough but FL armor would be a loss leader where vehicle stealth armor would just get hit less makes the most sense . I think the Warrior S9 ? From the prototype book is a cool VTOL that the WoB made very few of. It can shoot at medium range its entire payload with near impunity . Clans do Batchal to limit reasouce losses . Mercenaries are running a business , house units want cheap replacable  attrition vehicles your ideas are too expensive for general use . VTOL s are fragile . A VTOL on a battlefield with FL armor becomes a relevant valuable target because salvaging left over armor from a downed VTOL is just about the only way to get any of it at all for most opponants.  Even if it is in infantry carry mode it drops off its troops and the enemy normally concentrate its fire on units that are shooting back but given an aft aspect parting shot to hopefully get a massive motor critical so normally unattainable armor salvage on the battlefield . Combat Vehicles lose only about 20-25% of their armor before they become immoblie from motor criticals.  Mechs frequently require 75 % or more before they are taken out of action . By all means field expensive experimental FL armor units .   

[Retry]

Ferro Laminar armor never becomes commonly available.  ICE and Fusion always commonly available .  Fuel Cell engines for combat vehicle uncommonly available until 3071then common  , XL fusion Available 3041 , Light Fusion 3065 commonly available . Laser Reflective gets made by everyone at some point.

I chose 18 and 16 points of standard armor against a lucky Gauss Rifle hit during the hopefully short window of deploying battle armor or infantry . Theoretically my choice is advanced and possible in all ERAs and common Tournement Legal 3071+  . An FL armored  Omni VTOL might be Experimental 3075 ? Advanced in later years and I do not think it becomes tournement legal tech even in the 3145 Dark Age.

The Clans have very few stock mechs with FL armor and would not like to sacrifice any to vehicle construction if you could help it . Inner sphere units that Maintain a Solaris VII stable could perhaps keep running a lance of light vehicles with experimental tech easy enough but FL armor would be a loss leader where vehicle stealth armor would just get hit less makes the most sense .

I think the Warrior S9 ? From the prototype book is a cool VTOL that the WoB made very few of. It can shoot at medium range its entire payload with near impunity . Clans do Batchal to limit reasouce losses . Mercenaries are running a business , house units want cheap replacable  attrition vehicles your ideas are too expensive for general use.

VTOL s are fragile . A VTOL on a battlefield with FL armor becomes a relevant valuable target because salvaging left over armor from a downed VTOL is just about the only way to get any of it at all for most opponants.  Even if it is in infantry carry mode it drops off its troops and the enemy normally concentrate its fire on units that are shooting back but given an aft aspect parting shot to hopefully get a massive motor critical so normally unattainable armor salvage on the battlefield.

Combat Vehicles lose only about 20-25% of their armor before they become immoblie from motor criticals.  Mechs frequently require 75 % or more before they are taken out of action . By all means field expensive experimental FL armor units .

That's a lot of time spent on Ferro-Lamellor armor for what was overall just a single sentence.

Your theoretical VTOL does.  My Karnov-Lite that I described earlier also fits the bill for any era that has omni-tech, but it does so more cheaply than the 30-ton fuel cell "Super-Karnov", while being convertible to other roles.  It also can survive a lucky gauss shot to the front and sides, though it needs a critical hit role for the sides.

As a fact check: The Clans do have a ferro-lamellor combat vehicle production models, all of which are easily just as if not much more expensive than a F-L omni-VTOL could ever be, and with less utility to boot.  The Aithon Assault Transport  costs around 21 million C-Bills by itself, the Gurzil Support Tank costs around 15 million C-Bills, and the Chalchiutotolin Support Tank (XL) costs around 5 million C-Bills.  Most 30-ton VTOL variants never come close to breaking 5 million C-Bills even with the help of XLs, advanced armors, and the omni cost multiplier.  So no, the Clans don't mind ferro-lamellor being diverted to vehicle projects, even when they're rather pointless.

I mentioned FL armor because it alleviates VTOL vulnerability issues a lot.  Well-built FL VTOLs can go into much hotter than normal warzones while maintaining good survivability and can easily tango with other light vehicles and also light 'Mechs, and packs of them are very threatening to the heaviest 'Mechs.  But you don't necessarily need FL armor to make a good Omni-VTOL.  The "Karnov-Lite" build I mentioned earlier is decent enough, certainly fast enough to get the job done and it has enough space to put on some decent, usually lighter and energy-based solutions for fire support

[Col Toda]

We are talking Omni tech . Any armor other than standard or Hardened eats space . Any Engine other than ICE : Fusion : or Fuel Cell eats space with Fuel Cell providing the most motive power per ton.  An Omn w  2 magshot Gauss and 7-8  Rocket or iOS launchers pod becomes impossible .  By definition any space taken prior to designing your pods limits your options . All the Clan examples given were heavier and could afford the space for FL armor and perhaps XL engines .

[Retry]

We are talking Omni tech . Any armor other than standard or Hardened eats space . Any Engine other than ICE : Fusion : or Fuel Cell eats space with Fuel Cell providing the most motive power per ton.  An Omn w  2 magshot Gauss and 7-8  Rocket or iOS launchers pod becomes impossible .  By definition any space taken prior to designing your pods limits your options . All the Clan examples given were heavier and could afford the space for FL armor and perhaps XL engines .

Yes, it takes space on vehicles, but I can count the number of times on one hand when that's ever become a significant limitation out of all of my vehicle designs.