Am I reading this right? Availabilty for Mauser 960

[ErikModi]

Now, ever since I read MechWarrior 2 way back in high school, I've a had a thing for the Mauser 960.  Looking at the availability for it in A Time of War, I see that it's got ComStar faction, with a tech rating of F in the era I'm building for (3049.)  Now, if you are trying to obtain an item outside of its normal faction you increase the ratings by one.  This would then push the Mauser up to a tech rating of X, which is flat-out not available.  Does this mean that, since Equipped at 10 TP only goes up to F/F/F, you cannot obtain a Mauser 960 unless you are ComStar faction?

[Atlas3060]

For that time frame is sounds plausible. I'm away from my books so I can't really give a concrete answer.
The 960 was old Star League tech if I remember right, extremely rare. It would make sense that they have them available for their most respected and loyal troopers.

[Nav_Alpha]

This sounds about right. The only way you're getting one prior to the Jihad is to be part of Comstar, maybe a Clanner (from memory they developed a lighter, more compact version) or come across a Castle Brian/Star League supply cache.

In regards to the last option, there's an NPC in the old MW2 Royalty and Rogues scenario book who has stumbled across an ancient SL base and is totting around some advanced body armor and a Mauser 960.
Sadly he's stuck on Antallos and can't get offworld

[Fallen_Raven]

If you had one of rarest weapons in the galaxy, would you sell it to just anybody? Especially when it happens to be something that Comstar has trouble getting ahoold of? Of course not, you'd be selling it to a Great House or an weapons manufacturer for 10 times the price minimum.

Now it isn't unreasonable for you to acquire one as part of a cache, or to pick one up off of a vanquished enemy. Just don't expect to pick one up from a local pawn shop. Perhaps you could talk to your GM about how you could acquire one.

[ErikModi]

Oh, I figured the case for anything that advanced isn't as easy as picking them up in pawn shops, or even extremely well-stocked House armories.  It's intended to be rare, after all, but that's part of what the Equipped trait is supposed to represent.  The fact that you have access to stuff most people don't, for whatever reason.  I was just attempting to clarify that, as of the way the availability rules work, the Mauser 960 is impossible to obtain outside of ComStar.

[Maelwys]

Now, ever since I read MechWarrior 2 way back in high school, I've a had a thing for the Mauser 960.  Looking at the availability for it in A Time of War, I see that it's got ComStar faction, with a tech rating of F in the era I'm building for (3049.)  Now, if you are trying to obtain an item outside of its normal faction you increase the ratings by one.  This would then push the Mauser up to a tech rating of X, which is flat-out not available.  Does this mean that, since Equipped at 10 TP only goes up to F/F/F, you cannot obtain a Mauser 960 unless you are ComStar faction?

Yup, that's how it goes. Its not that surprising, the Mauser 960 was considered extremely rare outside of ComStar, and some sources point to them being rare inside ComStar as well. Its going to be an item that you need to talk to your GM about, maybe arrange a backstory for it, rather than being an item that every PC could pick up (albeit at a hefty cost in Equipped points).

And just for the record, the tech rating doesn't increase. For Affiliations other than ComStar (in this case) the Availability and Legality increase by 1 each, while tech remains the same. So that E/C-F-D/D Mauser become E/D-X-E/E. So yeah. The availability for the Succession Wars era is beyond factions outside of ComStar, by the rules. Again, ask your GM, maybe you'll be able to convince him with a really good story.

If you want a really funny example of how Equipment ratings and Affiliations work, look at the Ebony Assault Rifle. Its a F/X-X-E/F weapon, with a MoC Affiliation. However, the Equipped Trait tells us that any Periphery character must reduce the Tech Rating Level by one. So even if you spend the points to buy a +8 in equipped, the F Tech level that +8 gives you becomes an E. Which means that MoC characters can't get to the F rating to buy the Ebony Assault Rifle. And since all other factions other than the MoC have to add +1 to the Availability and Legality ratings, the Ebony becomes F/X-X-F/X. Which means no one can start with the Ebony Assault Rifle if they follow the rules exactly :)

Of course, situations like these two are why RPGs have GMs, and players write up backstories to try to get goodies like these :)

[Freefall357]

Oh, I figured the case for anything that advanced isn't as easy as picking them up in pawn shops, or even extremely well-stocked House armories.  It's intended to be rare, after all, but that's part of what the Equipped trait is supposed to represent.  The fact that you have access to stuff most people don't, for whatever reason.  I was just attempting to clarify that, as of the way the availability rules work, the Mauser 960 is impossible to obtain outside of ComStar.

Yup, but that is the great thing about RPGs, rules are a guideline and the GM can change whatever he wants.
Were I your GM, I would set up a few missions in a small side arc that sees you ending up with the chance of getting it.  I would not worry too much about it because I trust you would not sell it for a company of mechs.

[ErikModi]

The story I've had in mind is it being more of a family heirloom weapon.

[Nav_Alpha]

The story I've had in mind is it being more of a family heirloom weapon.

I think this could be fun too: Imagine if your great, great grandpa was fossicking around in the boondocks and came across a partially cleaned out Star League era cache. Among other things he finds a semi-operating Mauser system.
Now, 100 years later it has been handed down, secretly from father to first born: heavy duty electrical tape holds the firing mechanism together, the former plasteel butt and stock has been replaced with wood and much of the insides have been replaced with local bits and pieces.
It doesn't fire like it used to and is hard to use. Sounds like a great RP opportunity

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

  For the price of one Mauser 960 you could arm a company of men with decent weapons.

  One of my characters found a cache of the things and dumped them for a price I can't recall- The M960 is overrated.

[Nav_Alpha]

  For the price of one Mauser 960 you could arm a company of men with decent weapons.

  One of my characters found a cache of the things and dumped them for a price I can't recall- The M960 is overrated.

I was offered a cut down, "commando" version AK-47 for $60US in Kabul...

But seriously, from a game perspective the Mauser is expensive and overrated. But from a role playing  point of view though, it's very different. Imagine having a one of a kind, ancient weapon that no one else apart from ComStar's SF teams and the Clans?

[Atlas3060]

Yeah its overrated but from a RPG story side it is a great example of the hero's sword.
"Son this has been passed down as a great treasure from parent to child."
"Thank you father."
"Oh also because Great Grandpa Bumi stole this from ComStar now you partially know why they don't like us."

[ErikModi]

Exactly.  If all you want to do is put holes (or laser burns) in things, there are any number of weapons that'll do the job just as well, if not better.  It's the story behind such a weapon that interests me.

[Nav_Alpha]

Exactly.  If all you want to do is put holes (or laser burns) in things, there are any number of weapons that'll do the job just as well, if not better.  It's the story behind such a weapon that interests me.

Totally - it stands to reason that almost every planet in the Inner Sphere has the ability to produce their own (limited amounts of) small arms. So you could easily pick up a locally made SMG.

But the storytelling aspect of having this ancient, past down bit of equipment.

The game Fallout 2 had some fantastic stuff like this - the tribe of savages who kept the original "Vault 13" jumpsuit worn by their founder as a holy relic, eventually handing it onto the tribe's champion as a symbol of power/status/Gods' favour after he passed a series of tests of warriorhood

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

But from a role playing  point of view though, it's very different. Imagine having a one of a kind, ancient weapon that no one else apart from ComStar's SF teams and the Clans?

  My RP view is the M960 is overrated and I'd sell it in a minute (I did that). If I wanted some, I'll pry them from the cold, dead fingers of C* SF teams or Clanners... Oh, wait, my character did that...

[ErikModi]

  My RP view is the M960 is overrated and I'd sell it in a minute (I did that). If I wanted some, I'll pry them from the cold, dead fingers of C* SF teams or Clanners... Oh, wait, my character did that...

That's certainly a valid opinion.  But not the only one.

[Nav_Alpha]

  My RP view is the M960 is overrated and I'd sell it in a minute (I did that). If I wanted some, I'll pry them from the cold, dead fingers of C* SF teams or Clanners... Oh, wait, my character did that...

That's cool and it sounds like it worked well in your game.

I'm just saying, in my games an item like a Mauser 960 would be a holy Lostech relic, something incredibly rare and probably the focal point of much roleplay, etc. I think this is reflected in its availability rating.

Anyway - what ever works in your game, I think is the lesson we can all take from this

[Atlas3060]

  My RP view is the M960 is overrated and I'd sell it in a minute (I did that). If I wanted some, I'll pry them from the cold, dead fingers of C* SF teams or Clanners... Oh, wait, my character did that...

*Cracks open a drink and toasts to your honor*
Anyone who cracks open a few Comstar earns respect in my eyes.  O0

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

*Cracks open a drink and toasts to your honor*
Anyone who cracks open a few Comstar earns respect in my eyes.  O0

  It was during Scorpion, my unit's infantry assets beat a WoB Commando unit in a battle over an HPG station. How often do you get to order your infantry to execute a bayonet charge?
The fight was played out using BattleTroops -One soldier scored an open-ended hit and took down a WoB Commando in powered armor...with a bayonet! Oorah!

[ErikModi]

And that's why the US Marine Corps. still teaches bayonet tactics, and still uses them.

[jymset]

In generating Availability Ratings for Support Vehicles (as part of MUL related stuff), I have always capped modifiers at "F", taking "X" out of the normal modifier-related equation. In TM, these ratings are only really modified for late era entries (+1 or +2). A unique status would warrant an automatic "F" and things don't really get rarer than that. X to me means flat-out extinct/unavailable, which, as an absolute, I don't think is an appropriate result for a modified availability.

This is what I've applied in some official projects, but still, it's not an official verdict in the proper sense, so I'll call it my 2 cents' worth.

[ErikModi]

That seems logical to me, especially in this case, since Mauser's aren't "nonexistent" in the Inner Sphere immediately prior to the Clan invasion, just incredibly, incredibly rare.  "Nonexistent" to my mind indicates things like Inner Sphere battlearmor and other technologies the Successor States developed either as a direct result of the Clan Invasion, or research projects whose work was still in the very early development phase in the late 3040s.  Either way, it represents things that haven't been invented yet, not things that are no longer in production/lostech.

[nerd]

The distinctiveness of the Mauser 960 makes it kind of like the 'broom-handle' Mauser C96 pistol, or the LeMat revolver, a cinematic icon weapon.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

I'm just saying, in my games an item like a Mauser 960 would be a holy Lostech relic, something incredibly rare and probably the focal point of much roleplay, etc. I think this is reflected in its availability rating.

  A lot would depend on the era. In MW1 finding a Star League cache was always possible while in the later RPG books that possibility faded away, especially after the Clan Invasion Era. Once the Jihad Era begins the M960 will start appearing everywhere as C* and WoB units begin dropping them here and there. Eventually they'll be as common as AK47s at gun shows, as a dozen or so companies will be cranking out cheap knockoffs and reenactment groups pick them up...

[Nav_Alpha]

  A lot would depend on the era. In MW1 finding a Star League cache was always possible while in the later RPG books that possibility faded away, especially after the Clan Invasion Era. Once the Jihad Era begins the M960 will start appearing everywhere as C* and WoB units begin dropping them here and there. Eventually they'll be as common as AK47s at gun shows, as a dozen or so companies will be cranking out cheap knockoffs and reenactment groups pick them up...

You're probably right - I can imagine the Republic of the Sphere seeking out and destroying caches of equipment like the Mauser left over by the Wobbies to ensure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.
I can also see long hidden caches being broken out by splinter groups, etc as part of the whole post-HPG blackout madness.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

You're probably right - I can imagine the Republic of the Sphere seeking out and destroying caches of equipment like the Mauser left over by the Wobbies to ensure it doesn't fall into the wrong hands.
I can also see long hidden caches being broken out by splinter groups, etc as part of the whole post-HPG blackout madness.

  As an infantry weapon, the M960 is a crappy weapon, too heavy for mobile combat and far too expensive in relation to other gear on the market. What my group envisioned was that the M960 would be ideal for powered armor infantry, where the weight of the M960 isn't a problem (as well as its cost).

  Don't get me wrong, the M960 cuts poorly armored targets to pieces and is very nasty in a defensive position where the troops don't have to maneuver. I designed a Jump Infantry unit that would jump into an area, consolidate a defensive perimeter, and like WW2 paratroops, hold on until the conventional troops show up. It was fun and we even played out a BattleTroops version of Arnhem (Operation Market Garden) with that unit facing hordes of Cappy troops armed with SMGs. Plenty o' bodies!

[Nav_Alpha]

As you say, it just doesn't stack up against other small arms-  i'll take an SMG any day.
I think the original poster just envisioned it as an ultra rare, once off role playing tool.

Giving it to something like Gray Death Scout BA would be deadly, as you say.

I like the idea of Operation Market Garden- I recently played out some Battleforce using actual maps to recreate the battle of the Bulge (lyrans versus FWL).
Historical battles are fun

[ErikModi]

Well, shortly after the Clan Invasion, didn't the Federated Suns start producing its own version of the Mauser 960 for its infantry?  Which means that getting hold of a "real" 960 is less of an issue, as there's a brand new weapon of basically the same function.

[Maelwys]

Depends on how you determine the Clan Invasion era. :)  The FedSuns' version showed up in the early 3060's.

The M61A was also pretty ridiculous when it first showed up. Thankfully ATOW has made it somewhat in line with similar weapons.

[ErikModi]

Ah, I wasn't clear on the exact timeframe for that.