All About Unarmed Combat

[Labyr]

I've read over the melee combat rules in AToW and the bits in AToW:Companion a few times and I'm still confused. First off, if you go from Martial Arts 3 to Martial Arts 4 the only real benefit is the extra maneuvers in the companion since in both cases you'll need 4 on the dice to succeed?

Now, say we have two characters, Alex and Bob. Both have the same attributes, all 4s and the same Martial Arts skill of 4. Now Alex wants to punch Bob. I want to make sure that my understanding is correct.

Case 1: Alex MOS = 5, Bob MOS = 1, Alex does damage Bob does not. Page 180 says MOS for damage is modified by the enemies MOS, so Alex will do 1+1 damage from strength and 1 from modified MOS.

Case 2: Alex MOS = 1 Bob MOS = 5, Both characters do damage. Since Bob's MOS is much higher would that reduce Alex's damage downward? In this case would Alex do 0 damage because modifying his MOS by Bob's MOS gives him a MOS of -4. Or do both characters get their MOS bonus on their damage?

Case 3: Alex fails, Bob MOS = 4, Only Bob does damage. Is his damage modified by his MOS?

Case 4: Alex fails, Bob fails, neither character does damage.

Lastly how can a character in a fight make themselves harder to hit? There is defensive stance in the companion but say Bob adds 2 to his MOS for all rolls he will still take damage in cases 1 and 2.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The rules don't explicitly say it, but one COULD read into the tiered skill rules that the character with Basic skill (+0 to +3) is considered unskilled when engaging in a contested roll against someone with an Advanced form of the same skill (+4 and up).

That said, here's how I read the rules without reading between the lines like that:

Case 1: Alex has a MoS of 4.  Its important to note that in ATOW the two characters are not mutually attacking each other.  One is attacking, the other is defending.  Then the roles reverse when it's Bob's turn to attack.

Case 2: Alex may have a MOS of 1, but it'd be modified down by 5, for a MoF of 4.  AKA a failed attack.

Case 3: Still a failed attack on Alex's part.  Bob doesn't do any damage to Alex on Alex's attack; it was purely a roll to see 'do I avoid getting hit'.
Case 3a: Had it been Bob attacking instead, where Alex's defense roll had MoF of X and Bob had MoS of 4, Bob enjoys MoS of 4+X.

Case 4: Yep.

[Labyr]

So referring to Case 2, both characters would only damage each other if their MOSs are equal? If Alex's MOS is greater then he does damage. If Bob's MOS is greater than he does damage on a counterattack. I think that's how this is supposed to work.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Aside from it having worked that way in previous BT RPGs and some similar 'sister' systems in Shadowrun.. I see nothing in ATOW itself to suggest that you can end up counterattacked and suffering damage during your own melee/unarmed attack.

ATOW treats unarmed/melee attack rolls as a simple 'hit or miss' just like a ranged attack, with the added wrinkle of the defender getting a MoS to use to mitigate the damage... potentially all the way down to no damage at all.

So, as far as I read the rules, Alex will never suffer damage from Bob on Alex's own unarmed attack.

[Labyr]

I don't think that's right, I think the attacker can suffer damage if they roll poor or their opponent rolls well. The examples on p.175 list two examples where the attacker can take damage during a melee attack.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

You're right, so it does.

It explains right there how to apply the results when:

The attacker hits AND has MOS >= defender's
The attacker hits  BUT has MOS < defender's
The attacker misses AND defender hits
They both miss.

Seems answers to your scenarios should be clear-cut as the damage is always based on the difference in MoS.

So in your examples in light of page 175:
1) Alex has a MOS of 4 and Bob is doing no damage.
2) Alex deals damage with a MoS of -4 (-1 damage) while Bob deals with MoS of +4
3) Alex's MoF is X and Bob adds X to his MoS
4) both fail, no damage

[Labyr]

OK, I think my examples line up with the book's, and the number should be correct.

Having checked the rules clarification forum Defensive Stance now adds -2 on to an attacker's rolls. Is there any other practical way to lower his attack roll? The defender can be moving, walking adds another -1 to the roll (bob and weave). Are there any other ways to last through a bar fight other than just tanking the damage?