WHEN PIGS FLY: Gürtelfluger WiGE

[ANS Kamas P81]

I liked the idea of the Schildkrote WiGE just for hilarity and Things That Should Not Be Done.  Since I have neither restraint, sanity, or a simple sense of when to stop with an idea, this happened.  There's a lot of things that go through my head when I look at this.  Apologizing.  Checking my medication schedules.  Not apologizing.  Movie quotes.  I AM AN ARMOR FARMER, ************!

Gurtelfluger WIGE

Mass: 160 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Super-Heavy WiGE
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X
Production Year: No.
Cost: Just no.
Battle Value: Yo' momma.

Power Plant:  395 Fusion XL Engine
Cruise Speed: 43 km/h
Flanking Speed: 64 km/h
Armor: Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    1  Defiance 1001 Extended Range PPC
    1  Poland Main Model A Gauss Cannon
    1  TharHes Multi-Missile 7 Launcher
Manufacturer: Never Noone Anywhere
    Primary Factory: Not Nowhere Ever
Communications System: TharHes Muse 54-58K with Guardian ECM and C3 Slave
Targeting and Tracking System: TharHes Mars 8.2 with Targeting Computer

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                     112 points               32.00
Engine:             XXL Fusion Engine            395                      25.00
    Cruise MP:  4
    Flank MP:   6
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             15                        5.00
Control Equipment:                                                         8.00
Lift Equipment:                                                           16.00
Turret:                                                                    3.00
Armor:              Heavy Ferro-Fibrous          AV - 585                 29.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front    120     
                              Front Left/Front Right   80/80
                                          Left/Right   75/75       
                                              Turret     80       
                                                Rear     75       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       T        15         1         7.00
Gauss Rifle                                  T         1         1        15.00
MML-7                                        T         3         1         4.50
Targeting Computer                           T         0         1         6.00
Guardian ECM Suite                           BD        0         1         1.50
C3 Slave                                     BD        0         1         1.00
@Gauss Rifle (24)                            BD        -         0         3.00
@MML-7 (51/42)                               BD        -         0         3.00
CASE                                         BD        -         1         0.50

Aside from that, I have to say that I'm a little impressed I got the whole gun platform into it (meh who needs machineguns, RAM infantry platoons) as well as 97.5% maximum armor for its mass, and I even made it faster than the original.  ...Granted, the latter's not hard, but still.  As it turned out I think it's less accurate to say that "it's a vehicle with armor on it" than it is "it's a hollowed out block of armor with guns" at this point.  I'm not really sure what the hull of this WiGE would look like, but I picture something like a Seleucus dropship with a Gürteltier turret on top.

http://shimmering-sword.deviantart.com/art/Battletech-Seleucus-Dropship-381967903

Idly, if you slow it down to 3/5 you could put an Armored Motive System and maybe some jump jets on it, hrmm....

Edited: Flubbed the engine weight by half a ton and CASE II not being legit for tanks, so half a ton shifted from one to the other.  Also the cost is hilariously stupid.  See below.

[UnLimiTeD]

That's the most useless thing I've seen in a while.
I applaud you, good sir!

[A. Lurker]

The problem with going 3/5 would be having to set down for a breather after each change in course (because you couldn't then meet the five-hex movement requirement to stay airborne anymore). :D

4/6 at least lets you turn sixty degrees once per turn while flanking...with the attendant sideslip check if you do it mid-movement rather than at the beginning or end, granted, but still. I'd consider that the absolute practical minimum for ungainly, lumbering civilian cargo WiGEs that should ideally never even be on the same planet as a battlefield.

I do, however, have to salute the amount of sheer crazy that went into this. O0

[ANS Kamas P81]

with the attendant sideslip check if you do it mid-movement

That's not a sideslip check, that's a Social General Lane Change.

I do, however, have to salute the amount of sheer crazy that went into this. O0

Gotta admit, so do I.  O0

[UnLimiTeD]

Huh.
In my feeble attempt to sanitize the concept (now THAT speaks for itself, doesn't it? #P), I fould a quirk I can't quite explain.
I first dropped the weight to 155 tons (it works!), though I couldn't make the numbers match on the original design by a half ton.

Then I dropped the weight further and installed an XL engine. Apparently, the 140 ton version, with exactly the same amount of everything, is 1 ton heavier.
Do they actually still gain suspension there? Btw, the 145 ton version still carries 24.5 tons of armour, and the price is almost palatable. Except, you know, not really.  :P

[A. Lurker]

Per TacOps p. 378 the suspension factor for a superheavy WiGE is 140 + 35 per 30 tons or fraction above 80 tons. So, 175 for 81-110 tons, 210 for 111-140, and 245 for 141-160 (where the scale ends) -- and yes, that means that by dropping to 140 tons you just cross one of those boundaries and lose some SF.

[UnLimiTeD]

So, yeah, the 145 Ton version isn't bad.
You could drop some more armour to update the weaponry. Given the designs *cough* newfound speed over a standard Gurty, you can surely afford to replace the MML with extra LRM tubes. I think a 15 with Artemis fits, or an ...

Wait. You didn't do the C3M version.  :o

[ANS Kamas P81]

Wait. You didn't do the C3M version.  :o

Get to work.   >:D

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, here goes:

New Tank
IS experimental
155 tons 
BV: 2,605
Cost: Oh GOD, NO!

Movement: 4/6(8 ) (Wing in Ground Effect)
Engine: 375 XXL

Internal: 112
Armor: 582 (Heavy Ferro-Fibrous)
                     Internal    Armor
--------------------------------------
Front                      16      120
Front Right                16       80
Front Left                 16       80
Rear Right                 16       75
Rear Left                  16       75
Rear                       16       72
Turret                     16       80

Weapon                         Loc  Heat
----------------------------------------
ER PPC                          TU    15
MML 7                           TU     4
LB 10-X AC                      TU     2
C3 Master Boosted with TAG      BD     0

Ammo                           Loc Shots
----------------------------------------
MML 7 LRM Ammo                  BD    17
MML 7 LRM Ammo                  BD    17
MML 7 SRM Ammo                  BD    14
LB 10-X AC Ammo                 BD    10
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo            BD    10
LB 10-X Cluster Ammo            BD    10

Equipment                      Loc
----------------------------------
CASE II                         BD
Targeting Computer              BD
Guardian ECM Suite              BD
Supercharger                    BD

C3B because for some reason the Regular C3M occasionally disappears in mml.

[A. Lurker]

C3B because for some reason the Regular C3M occasionally disappears in mml.

Yeah, there's a bug that has been recently fixed in the repository but is probably still in your version of MML since AFAICT the last public update was before that. Essentially causes the program to not consider stock C3 Masters "proper" vehicle equipment, so they duly don't show up in the equipment list when the unit type is set to "Tank".

The next update (whenever that's due) should address that, or if you're up to it you can check out a copy of the repository version and compile it yourself. The latter is what I usually do.

[UnLimiTeD]

I suppose I could do that.
But naw, I mostly use SAW anyways. mml's for special equipment, superheavies, and non-vehicles/mechs.

[Col Toda]

I thought MK IX small craft is more likely used for ground support than this . Too bad you did not put down the C bill cost . My inquiries into WIGE vehicles is that they always cost too much . Small craft has more standard in place infrastructure for their rapid use and transport.

[UnLimiTeD]

WiGEs just have a prodigious cost multiplier for no visible reason, same as lighter engines do.
Still, you can do a 145 ton version with an XL engine without too much of a drop in survivability.

[ANS Kamas P81]

I thought MK IX small craft is more likely used for ground support than this . Too bad you did not put down the C bill cost . My inquiries into WIGE vehicles is that they always cost too much . Small craft has more standard in place infrastructure for their rapid use and transport.

I did the build by hand, so no way in hell was I going to try to add it up.  That 395 XXL is going to be a cost multiplier the likes of which Rockefeller has never seen.

[A. Lurker]

I did the build by hand, so no way in hell was I going to try to add it up.  That 395 XXL is going to be a cost multiplier the likes of which Rockefeller has never seen.

Well, on that cue I just ran the design through MegaMekLab...and first of all it turns out to be half a ton overweight even with the targeting computer moved properly into the body where it belongs. It's that selfsame engine; you skipped a "round up to the nearest half-ton" step between dividing standard engine weight by three and then adding 50% again to account for vehicle shielding, didn't you? Because that's where the difference comes from; MML lists the engine as being 25 tons rather than 24.5, which makes sense for (49/3 = 16.33... rounded up to 16.5, x1.5 and rounded up once more for shielding).

It's not a big deal in this case, however, since it can be fixed by addressing another issue I hadn't noticed at first (and which MML doesn't recognize yet either)...CASE II isn't actually valid vehicle equipment. You can put it on 'Mechs and fighters, but that's it, and there are no actual rules for how it'd even work on conventional vehicles either. So replace that with regular CASE, which can go on vehicles, and both legality problems disappear in one swell foop.

So...that cost? According to MML, you're looking at a BV of 2,634...and a 642,720,833 C-bill hit to your bank account per unit. (It's indeed mostly the engine; it makes up over 97% of the unit's base cost even before dropping the final tonnage multiplier of 7.4 on everything.) Ammo is extra, of course, but by the time you're rich enough to spring for this thing instead of the DropShip you could also buy with this kind of money I'm reasonably sure we can legitimately file that under "Peanuts". ;)

[ANS Kamas P81]

didn't you

Guilty as charged.  "Hey, a XXL in a tank weighs as much as a baseline XL right?"  Like you said, knock it from CASE II to CASE and carry on.  Thanks for the catch, I'll edit the original.

didn't you

So...that cost? According to MML, you're looking at a BV of 2,634...and a 642,720,833 C-bill hit to your bank account per unit. (It's indeed mostly the engine; it makes up over 97% of the unit's base cost even before dropping the final tonnage multiplier of 7.4 on everything.) Ammo is extra, of course, but by the time you're rich enough to spring for this thing instead of the DropShip you could also buy with this kind of money I'm reasonably sure we can legitimately file that under "Peanuts". ;)
[/quote]
 ;D
Oh god that's hilarious and a good order of magnitude more than I expected.  I quote myself in the most accurate statement I've ever made:

Cost: Just no.

[UnLimiTeD]

You can get a 145 ton XL engine version for just 125m, with 22.5 tons of armour. Or 106m and 24.5 tons if you go without a supercharger.

[Col Toda]

So it would appear that a very big WIGE VS a standard say 200 ton small craft the cost for an aerodyne Small craft might be a cheaper ;  Slower and possibly a better route as it could do double duty between Drop ship / Jump ship defense and ground support . I think it would be a much easier sell for an armed and armored aerodyne  small craft VS a WiGE when it could come down to selling these things . Speed is essential for a WiGE but less so for a small craft so is this whole post just a question of what is the right tool for the job ?

Real Russian WiGE  are great cargo transports for a very specific terrain theaters . There it seems to be a great option .  Any planet with a lot of lakes and oceans it also looks great .

[UnLimiTeD]

The question is, what do WiGEs really cost?
Because, as has been established by now, the costs we do have are often nonsensical (see WiGEs) and even if sound based on End-of-SW4, so one has to assume that WiGEs (Not this, but the chassis in general) might be pretty affordable for all we know.

[Prince of Darkness]

Good god, this thing has more armor than some dropships!

[UnLimiTeD]

It also costs more. :P