Battle of Tukayyid vehicle Battlefield Support rules for AS

[Leafback]

So I'm trying to play a BoT game with the Battlefield support rules. The rules can also be used with the support rules found in the AS:CE book easily, but how does one use the rules found in this book with the capability of using the extra vehicles?

A buddy and I played a brief skirmish with the Clan and Comstar advantages and it was absolutely one sided, I believe because Comstar couldn't field any other units.

[FenderSaxbey]

Battlefield support for vehicles is a little redundant when it comes to Alpha Strike in my opinion. I suppose you could do some math to convert, but using the standard vehicle rules in Alpha Strike isn't much more complex tbh.

[Leafback]

The problem isn't that using AS vehicle rules isn't complex, it's that it leaves a gap of information where we don't know how many extra vehicles ComStar should be allowed to field.

I can do math to convert, yeah, but that ends up with a HUGE advantage for ComStar. Page 24 says that to get an additional Battlefield Support Point, you pay 20 PV. If you're playing with the Binary scale (expected average battle size of 400 PV), ComStar gets 24 free points. This then means that 24*20=480. ComStar would then be "allowed" to field 880 PV.

Meanwhile, lets pretend that the Clans fielded 10 Cauldron-Borns at 41 points each, making it 410 PV. Because of Clan advantage they'd be rated at the next better skill, so their real PV worth is 49, which then means that their actual PV is  490.

840 vs 490 seems waaaay unbalanced.

[FenderSaxbey]

Oh! Sorry, I didn't quite understand. There is a conversion in the new Battlefield Support rules playtest but it applies to BV2 (1 BSP = 30 BV) so not much help there. Maybe up the conversion yourself to something that feels more reasonable or give the Comstar side a straight 25% or so bonus in PV to use on non-mech assets?


While I agree that the 20PV per BSP is too unbalanced, BoT isn't supposed to be (of course). I think you can probably come up with an alternative to the BSP route and have an easier time of it.

[Leafback]

Interesting. Where are the play test rules for that figure?

[nckestrel]

This then means that 24*20=480.

BSP cost 20 PV and BSP are worth 20 PV are two different things, especially in a single combat.
BSP were intentionally set at a very high cost to add additional BSP.  1) to keep the focus on the 'mechs and make an all BSP force completely unusuable and 2) they are free to repair and "replace" since they don't need repairs and come back free every track.  The cost is therefore intentionally much higher than they are expected to be worth in a single combat.

That said, you may find they are still imbalanced.  But they are not _that_ (2:1) imbalanced.

[Brym]

So I'm trying to play a BoT game with the Battlefield support rules. The rules can also be used with the support rules found in the AS:CE book easily, but how does one use the rules found in this book with the capability of using the extra vehicles?

A buddy and I played a brief skirmish with the Clan and Comstar advantages and it was absolutely one sided, I believe because Comstar couldn't field any other units.

Comstar gets the advantage of free BSP, and Clan gets an advantage of free veteran skill in the Force Building.  I would try balancing this first by making ComStar pay for vehicles to be included in the Force like normal, but also make the Clan pay for their skill increases.  To make things more flavorful, you could require the ComStar force to include a certain percentage of vehicles, and require the clanners to use the appropriate skill 3 ratings.  I would recommend that the clanners use a fair number of elementals in their force in that case, to avoid letting the Comstar forces always have an overwhelming numerical advantage, even if PV-balanced.

[Leafback]

BSP were intentionally set at a very high cost to add additional BSP.

...

That said, you may find they are still imbalanced.  But they are not _that_ (2:1) imbalanced.

Thanks for the reply.

It's clear the rules are there to stop the spamming of BSP, and so there's a high cost to covert PV to BSP for the reasons you mentioned. I only used that math to illustrate to the previous poster what I was trying to say in that the conversion isn't a good idea.

I guess my question is if the BoT Battlefield support rules can even be used in Alpha Strike play, or are we limited to only using the rules found in AS:CE?

I would try balancing this first by making ComStar pay for vehicles to be included in the Force like normal, but also make the Clan pay for their skill increases.

Yeah, this is going to be my temporary work around with the additional rules added that the vehicles added this way don't need to be maintained nor purchased before hand. However, using this method means we can't use any Battlefield support like aerostrikes because that's unaccounted for.

For instance, if the expected track size is 400 PV, you'll get 24 BSP. If the Clans bring an ACTUAL PV total of 490 because of their skill buff, ComStar can EITHER take 24 BSP, OR 90 free PV in vehicle points.

Because there's no conversion rules, there's no official way to take X strafe runs and Y free vehicles.

[Lord_Ragnar101]

For instance, if the expected track size is 400 PV, you'll get 24 BSP. If the Clans bring an ACTUAL PV total of 490 because of their skill buff, ComStar can EITHER take 24 BSP, OR 90 free PV in vehicle points.

Because there's no conversion rules, there's no official way to take X strafe runs and Y free vehicles.

Hi there! I joined the forums to ask this question and saw it was discussed a bit. If you can please find a way to pardon my lack of understanding about the Tukayiid book being Total-Warfare and Classic focused, I think I understand that the "classic rule" BSPs don't QUITE line up with Alpha Strike BSPs. Is this right?

Just wondering if anyone had a home-brew work around with incorporating Alpha Strike BSPs to make this aforementioned X + Y problem, fair BUT playable for Comguard players? Buddy of mine and I were anticipating trying to do a campaign track incorporating Tukayiid.

For ex: has anyone tried to field testing this by potentially reducing the Comstar BSP allotments 50% (24 -> 12 BSP) and retaining the "free" vehicle PV to field vehicles (which let's be honest: lots and lots of scorpions)?

[Lanceman]

Hi there! I joined the forums to ask this question and saw it was discussed a bit. If you can please find a way to pardon my lack of understanding about the Tukayiid book being Total-Warfare and Classic focused, I think I understand that the "classic rule" BSPs don't QUITE line up with Alpha Strike BSPs. Is this right?

Just wondering if anyone had a home-brew work around with incorporating Alpha Strike BSPs to make this aforementioned X + Y problem, fair BUT playable for Comguard players? Buddy of mine and I were anticipating trying to do a campaign track incorporating Tukayiid.

For ex: has anyone tried to field testing this by potentially reducing the Comstar BSP allotments 50% (24 -> 12 BSP) and retaining the "free" vehicle PV to field vehicles (which let's be honest: lots and lots of scorpions)?

I think the easiest way to do it is reduce the BSP for the ComStar player, so that they end up with fewer potential airstrikes and artillery than the Clan player, but then give them an additional "free" PV pool to purchase extra vehicles or infantry each track, like 10-25% of their total deployed PV or something along those lines. Might have to try a few rounds and see what feels good with the numbers.

[Lord_Ragnar101]

I think the easiest way to do it is reduce the BSP for the ComStar player, so that they end up with fewer potential airstrikes and artillery than the Clan player, but then give them an additional "free" PV pool to purchase extra vehicles or infantry each track, like 10-25% of their total deployed PV or something along those lines. Might have to try a few rounds and see what feels good with the numbers.

Sweet! Wish I had more local folks to play test this with, but hoping to hear how your few rounds go.