Author Topic: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core  (Read 26635 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #90 on: 16 December 2019, 23:57:51 »
Look, you get the parts and you can assemble the mech by hand . . . heck, with a good machine shop you can MAKE the parts by hand.

This goes back to the Clan ER weapons in the 3050s . . . the Clans mass produced their weapons, like the ER Large Lasers.  They had mass produced them for decades.  Shortly after the AFFC captured copies in '50-'52 the NAIS was able to produce their own versions . . . when built by hand, but the cost in man hours was extremely high b/c they lacked the precision automated systems to build the parts.  Only when making each part under the supervision of a craftsman using the highest quality materials and the most precise machines able to complete the most exacting detailed task were they able to replicate the ability.

But it was not economically viable- they could make replacement parts for Prince Victor's Dire Wolf but not enough to supply the whole AFFC.

So yeah, in 3025 a merc company could make their own assault mech if . . .

 . . . they could get engineering schematics and specs- basically, how & material requirements respectively
 . . . they could get the advanced materials to meed the specs (Standard structure has X tensile strength, Y conductivity, and Z melting point)
 . . . they have the machines that can extrude myomer to battlemech standards rather than IndiMech
 . . . they have the dies & machine tools to build the parts
 . . . and they can get the gyro & fusion engine that are the critical parts to get it functioning
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Adventwolf

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #91 on: 17 December 2019, 08:18:21 »
This isn't using the about using the mech. Nor is it a mech company that I am talking about. This is about reverse engineering the technology of the mechs from Ferro fibrous armor, the double heat sinks, ER and Pulse lasers, the Gauss rifle from the Highlander.

All of this without access to Helm memory core, NAIS, or any data on just how the stuff works. For the record the Helgan Republic doesn't have even primitive level of Armor, Structure, and the lasers they have made are the size of naval weapons with the power of small and medium lasers. The TC when they found a cache of SLDF equipment and started reverse engineering the armor alone took years of research and they still got left behind by the IS when they got the Helm memory core.
Fun quest that need more people:

Skywalker For Senator (Star Wars) - Q, Star Wars: Beyond the Republic, We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross) Crossover, Mobile Suit Gundam: Divided Federation (Civ Quest), The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover, Star War Moff Quest: Lost in Space

Colt Ward

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #92 on: 17 December 2019, 10:36:17 »
Ever read Turtledove's Worlds at War?  The L1 to L2 is not a revolutionary leap in the technology, its incremental . . . so a good tech can recognize what a piece of the advanced technology can do, how to graft it on to what they possess to get functionality, but cannot always say exactly how the piece of equipment does what it does when functioning.  One of the big pieces they get into some of this with is a radar set in Brit hands.  The Brit who was part of the radar project was wondering where the vacuum tubes where but figured out they were replaced by circuit boards- but not why or how they functioned.  IIRC he also wondered why the radar was mounted where it was with the cavity for focusing the radar beams . . . or how the beam was focused.

The FF armor the TC found is IMO a great example since that is a inert piece of technology it makes it really simple to say what held up its deployment- plain old materials science.  The TC had to figure out how to create the alloys that went into the sandwich layers of the FF armor.  As a example, molybdenum has been involved in steel making over the centuries with evidence that some places making swords ended up with it (as impurities in the regional ore) to produce a superior weapon- molly be damn has higher melting point and a greater hardness (why its used in armor plate) than other types of steel.  Experimentation in its use since discovery in the late 1700s were difficult b/c it did not want to be extracted from its natural compounds, tended to re-crystalize in the metal production processes and caused the final product to be brittle  It was not until before WWI that processes were able to completely separate it and then combine it with steel to create a superior product used in armor and armor piercing applications.  So while the TC might have able to identify most of what went into the FF armor, HOW to get them to combine is still a problem for them to overcome . . . and one of the simplest L1-L2 changes because its applications of the single field, materials development.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Adventwolf

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #93 on: 17 December 2019, 12:13:11 »
I think we are speaking past eachother? Plus the Helgan Republic doesn't even have L1 tech. I am not talking about using what they have on hand I am talking about them taking the limited amount they could get and remaking it to the point of mass production. I am also not talking about the mercenaries at all. Again the Helgan Republic doesn't have any of the technology they have just barely gotten to a prototype of primitive level for armor and structure. Though to be fair they should have primitive level of those by now but screwed up due to the long time between the last two main turns and we forgot that we were at a breakthrough point.

And the Turtledove book yeah I have if it is the one with the lizards that think they are the greatest thing in the universe. Luckily we aren't that mismatched. We are currently in the middle of battle turns with our "unaffiliated" mercenary force of infantry, IFVs, tanks, artillery and fighters. They have done a decent job against a "pirate" raid of a Union, Leopard, and Buccaneer dropship so far. We also have our own advantages. Just that for the most part our units are glass cannons. Also if you want to join you are more than welcome we are on SV. We had a few long hiatus and we lost some players. We could always use more.
Fun quest that need more people:

Skywalker For Senator (Star Wars) - Q, Star Wars: Beyond the Republic, We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross) Crossover, Mobile Suit Gundam: Divided Federation (Civ Quest), The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover, Star War Moff Quest: Lost in Space

Colt Ward

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #94 on: 17 December 2019, 13:17:01 »
I was not addressing the mercenaries either, just that a lower tech base can take and use incremental tech improved equipment from a more advanced tech base.  Like the humans in that story, they can graft it on to their existing base even if they do not understand all of it.  Some can be replicated on a small scale but other pieces of the technology that required a revolutionary change will not- to use the Worlds at War example, the humans could not duplicate the circuit boards of the radar but could create their own display screens and I think copy the form of the magnetron.  Go back to that NAIS building Clan ER lasers, the whole of the AFFC lacks the industrial ability to produce the lasers- tolerances on automated machining, precision of measuring tools, mass production of alloys/composites/polymers of the proper quality, and more- but a collection of scientists and highly skilled engineers can build one by creating the parts and assembling by hand. 

Mass producing a more advanced technology requires the pyramid, you have to know how to build the machines that build the parts & machines you will need to create the final product.  So IMO if you are building primitive designs, and your engineer/tech force is trained to operate on them . . . if you can get standard battlemech armor imported, then you could replace the standard armor on your existing designs and incorporate it into building new units but producing your own standard armor in any sort of mass produced amount will be difficult.  IE, the TC COULD have put that FF armor on mechs after discovering it but they would have wasted a lot of it and not really learned much.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Adventwolf

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #95 on: 17 December 2019, 14:37:00 »
Then you agree because I was not talking about building things by hand. The entire point of our research is mass production. Nor did I say they couldn't do it in small numbers though they can't do that either. Due to lacking anything that is similar to the Battletech materials or production methods used. The Helgan Republic has a completely different tech base to begin with. The biggest advantage is that unlike the rest of the IS we actually know and understand it completely. Plus our computer tech is much better just fragile compared to the bricks Battletech uses. We are trying to equip an entire armies with mechs. And thinking that someone that has never used or made anything like a mech before to be able to do that is wishful thinking at best. And the ER lasers are 12 points of research after we get standard lasers. FF armor is 9 points away from where we are right now. Endo steel is also 9 points away. We get 4 points a turn and those are not the only things we need to research.
Fun quest that need more people:

Skywalker For Senator (Star Wars) - Q, Star Wars: Beyond the Republic, We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross) Crossover, Mobile Suit Gundam: Divided Federation (Civ Quest), The Lords of Ruin -- Battletech/Killzone Crossover, Star War Moff Quest: Lost in Space

 

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