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BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Designs and Rules => Aerospace => Topic started by: Liam's Ghost on 12 November 2019, 05:13:08

Title: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 12 November 2019, 05:13:08

Basic Setting: "...and the rise of the Heirs of Steiner-Davion..." This is an alternate setting where Hanse Davion won the Succession Wars and the Inner Sphere was unified under the banner of First Lord Victor Steiner-Davion by 3067. Explaining how that came about would take more bandwidth than the specifics of the challenge itself, so I'll just leave it at this. Everything came up Hanse, the Draconis Combine has become one of the First Lord's most ardent supporters, the Federated Suns (under Katherine) has become one of his most ardent opponents, the Capellan Confederation is under military occupation for rebelling again, it's 3081, and the Star League council has just ratified a naval treaty to prevent an arms race that might bring it all crashing down.

(Also, the clans never showed up)

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to build a navy compliant with the treaty specifications described below for one of the Star League's member states. (Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, Draconis Combine, Free Worlds League, technically the Capellan Confederation I suppose, also the Free Rasalhague Republic and Magistracy of Canopus as minor powers, and the Star League Defense Force as itself). You can assume that this state starts with the fleet it had at roughly the modern height of its naval power in the canon timeline (so just before the jihad for most, or before the Fedcom civil war for the Suns and the Commonwealth, with adjustments where appropriate). The Star League Defense Force has inherited Comstar's entire navy (ten warships, that's all, we swear. What would we be doing with a large fleet?) and received the cruiser Covenant from the Draconis Combine, but beyond that, they're starting with a blank slate.

Since somebody may ask, Comstar is legally a civilian corporate entity with a sideline as a church. As happy friendly friends of the Star League, they've totally demobilized the majority of their mech forces or turned them over to the SLDF, handed over all their warships (keeping absolutely none for themselves in those hidden bases they totally don't have), and are slowly gaining a stranglehold over interstellar trade by having the most productive shipyards in the inner sphere. I assure you, they aren't planning anything. Though if one were to hypothetically examine what got posted here and start to wonder what some shadowy conspiracy might develop as a counter, who would I be to chastise them?

Now onto the challenge itself, here's the parameters:


Specific definitions and restrictions:

*Under the terms of the naval treaty, a WarShip is defined as any jump capable vessel equipped with either a compact or primitive (retrotech) jump core massing one hundred thousand tons or more. Jump capable vessels smaller than this mass, regardless of the jump core used, are not regulated by the treaty.

The treaty further breaks down WarShips into the broad categories of battleships, massing no more than 1,500,000 tons; cruisers, massing no more than 1,000,000 tons, and lesser vessels, massing no more than 500,000 tons. An additional subcategory of carrier warships is also included.

Warships have additional restrictions on their supporting units based on their classification. Battleships may not mount more than six docking collar, nor have hangar space for more than sixty aerofighters and thirty small craft. Cruisers may not mount more than four docking collars, nor may they have hangar space for more than forty aerofighters or twenty small craft. Lesser vessels are limited to two docking collars, twenty fighters, and ten small craft.

A carrier warship has the same docking collar limitation as its size category, however it may carry up to 120 aerospace fighters and thirty small craft.

In addition, all warships, dropships, and jumpships of all types are limited to a maximum battery of ten capital or subcapital missile launchers, with no more than ten missiles in the ready magazine per launcher.

WarShips currently in service with signatory powers that violate these treaty restrictions receive a five year grace period, at the end of which they must either be brought to compliance through modification or removed from service (the collar limitation will get lots of guys, but the flight deck limitation will make a Thera cry).

*Standard Jumpships are regulated by the treaty only by setting the maxiumum mass of any future designs at 300,000 tons. Any standard jumpships larger than this currently in service may be retained, and any such ships currently under construction at the time of the treaty's ratification may be completed.

*Combat Dropships are defined as armed dropships which fail to meet the definition of transports, and are regulated by limiting maximum mass to 15,000 tons and the maximum number of fighters carried to 40.

*Transport dropships are defined as dropships that allocate at least one third of their total mass to cargo or equipment unable to directly affect a spaceborn engagement, and are otherwise unregulated.


Treaty limitations on fleet size:

Each major power may operate up to sixty total warships (as defined above), massing no more than 30,000,000 tons in total. In addition, each major power may field no more than ten battleship and thirty cruiser class ships, and they are entitled to six carrier class vessels from among this total.

Minor powers may operate a fleet of up to twenty total warships, massing a total of ten million tons, of which half may be cruiser class vessels and two may be carriers.

The Capellan Confederation is prohibited from operating WarShips of any type. All remaining WarShips of the Capellan Navy have been awarded to the Star League Defense Force as War Prizes and are slated for reserve status. There is no additional restriction on other ship types.

The Star League Defense Force may operate up to two hundred total warships, including twenty battleship class vessels, fifty cruiser class vessels, and ten carriers.

All powers may additionally retain a fleet of inactive reserve vessels numbering up to half of their active warship fleet.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Dragon Cat on 12 November 2019, 16:37:38

Tagged

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Daryk on 12 November 2019, 18:09:57

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 12 November 2019, 05:13:08

*snip*
Jump capable vessels smaller than this mass, regardless of the jump core used, are not regulated by the treaty.
*snip*

This strikes me as a 99,999 ton-sized loophole...  ^-^

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Smegish on 12 November 2019, 18:11:41

Think I could use most of the stuff I made for the Warship Arms Race from awhile back. The ASF limits are a bit harsh though.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 12 November 2019, 18:57:58

Quote from: Daryk on 12 November 2019, 18:09:57

This strikes me as a 99,999 ton-sized loophole...  ^-^

:fine_print:

Nobody could EVER build enough sub hundred thousand ton primitive core vessels to be a threat, right?  :)

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Daryk on 12 November 2019, 19:00:08

Heh... Cannonshop just had Sun Tzu Liao catch on to that trick in his latest fan fic...

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Notsonoble on 12 November 2019, 23:37:08

I'll be returning to this later.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Wrangler on 13 November 2019, 10:04:15

Interesting, so faction members can build fleet but very small except for the Capellans who can't legally have it.

So at the moment, Sub-Capital style weapons don't exist at all?

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 13 November 2019, 16:22:12

Sub-capital weapons are available. All inner sphere equipment from the 3080s and earlier is available with the exception of the Caspar and Caspar II systems.

(though I'm thinking of a related challenge involving the Caspar system and Comstar). 

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Notsonoble on 13 November 2019, 16:59:21

Do thunderbolts still get a crit chance?

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 13 November 2019, 17:41:16

Quote from: Notsonoble on 13 November 2019, 16:59:21

Do thunderbolts still get a crit chance?

 ???

No more than any other standard scale weapon of their damage class?

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Daryk on 13 November 2019, 20:56:06

That would depend entirely on the armor value of whatever they're shooting at, right?  ???

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 13 November 2019, 22:20:53

It sounds like you can make a "Transport Dropship" with 150 aerospace fighter bays like so:

Code: [Select]

New Dropship
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3080
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 5,920
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-D
Cost: 1,272,544,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (50,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 0 (0)
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 678
    Sides: 577/577
    Aft: 476

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (150)           8 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (36697.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  5 officers, 19 enlisted/non-rated, 300 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 270 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:     Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
None


Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Smegish on 13 November 2019, 22:40:47

Beat me to it Lagrange, though I would sacrifice a little bit of cargo for AMS

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Vehrec on 13 November 2019, 22:42:11

Heyo, I've made an SLDF transport and support jumpship.  It's got 5 dropship collars, lots of AMS and an ER large laser on each flank, and a L-F battery to keep up with fast ships or rapidly whip Dropships across the Inner Sphere.

Code: [Select]

Conveyor
Mass: 300,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 300,000
Battle Value: 1,497
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 2,429,610,500 C-bills

Fuel: 100 tons (250)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Heat Sinks: 0
Structural Integrity: 1

Armor
    Nose: 2
    Fore Sides: 2/2
    Aft Sides: 1/1
    Aft: 2

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (1)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (45.0 tons)       1 Door   

Ammunition:
    420 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (6 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 5
Grav Decks: 1 (100 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 4
Crew:  5 officers, 16 enlisted/non-rated, 2 gunners, 5 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
25 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (17 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                        5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (720 shots)
1 ER Large Laser                            12    1(8)    1(8)    1(8)     0(0)   Laser       
FRS/FLS (17 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                        5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
1 ER Large Laser                            12    1(8)    1(8)    1(8)     0(0)   Laser       
ARS/ALS (17 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                        5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (720 shots)
1 ER Large Laser                            12    1(8)    1(8)    1(8)     0(0)   Laser       
Aft (17 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                        5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (720 shots)
1 ER Large Laser                            12    1(8)    1(8)    1(8)     0(0)   Laser       



Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Smegish on 14 November 2019, 02:52:50

So the current plan I've come up with leaves me right on the 30MT limit with 50 ships, which I think will do me.

Fleet composition may seem a bit boring, but I've decided to standardize on a single calibre of gun for each type to simplify production and logistics rather then mixing bays to hit the magical 70 Capital Damage marker, also going with Naval C3 across the board.

Fleet Contains:
5 x Nagato-class Battleship (1.2MT)
15 x Atago-class Heavy Cruiser (900kt)
30 x Fubuki-class Destroyer (350kt)

Will update with designs and doctrine tomorrow, after work.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Notsonoble on 14 November 2019, 14:01:50

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 13 November 2019, 17:41:16

???

No more than any other standard scale weapon of their damage class?

I remember before my hiatus some discussion on making them less than other standard scale to prevent tbolt missile spamming. I still haven't picked up current core beyond TacOps so I wasn't sure.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 15 November 2019, 08:11:00

Quote from: Smegish on 13 November 2019, 22:40:47

Beat me to it Lagrange, though I would sacrifice a little bit of cargo for AMS

Yep, that was just a quickie.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 24 November 2019, 15:00:04

The Taurian Concordat Navy's initial proposal was rejected by the bean counters.  Over a year of negotiation between the army, the navy, and the bean counters ensued before settling on a plan.

The warship fleet consists of 20 warships, 10 Anvil class heavy cruisers, 2 Crown class carriers, and 8 Hammer class raider/destroyers.  Despite strong urging from fleet admirals, every warship has no docking collars due to cost concerns.  Instead, every warship is assigned at least one partner Overwatch jumpship.

Every warship is designed to operate as a linchpin of naval action supported by (and supporting) many ancillaries.  To do this, each has Naval C3, a large naval comm scanner, a suite of satellite imagers.  The Overwatch jumpship sports 4 docking collars, a mobile HPG, and 4 large grav decks providing exercise facilities capable of keeping regimental-size units in good muscle tone.  All Warship/Jumpship/Dropship personnel are quarters for long duration trips with supplies for year-long deployments for the warship.  All Warships and the Jumpship have LF batteries.

The Hammer (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TuRsVldcm6H8l0O6wdL4d_3cpfIgfYGBaIOsrQsYayA/edit?usp=sharing) is designed to win unfair fights with a toolkit of 3 tactical options.

1) The Hammer can function as a raider.  As an LF-jump unit, it has maximal strategic speed and interesting tactical options available.  The 5/8 tactical speed makes it able to pace or outrun most other large craft.  The Hammer also has a Light Naval Gauss which outranges all other capital weapons.  Furthermore, it can use a naval C3 spotter (detailed later) to hit commonly even at extreme ranges.  The mixture of speed, accuracy, and a heavy AMS blanket allows the Hammer to methodically beat an enemy into submisson.  Even against a slower maneuvering enemy, the NL55s in the aft-side arcs guarantee that one capital weapon can always come to bear at extreme range.

2) The Hammer can function as a destroyer.  The 5/8 speed allows it to rapidly close the range on slower opposing large craft and the many screen projectors gives it the ability close without taking enemy fire.  At short (for naval engagement) ranges the Hammer can unleash deadly blows with a crushing array of ER PPCs.  During a fleet action, this tactic also supports withering extreme range fire from other warships via Naval C3 connections

3) The Hammer can function as a carrier.  It's native ASF component is treaty limited, but the associated Overwatch jumpship (detailed later) routinely carries transport dropships (detailed later) which combine to provide overwhelming aerospace superiority.

Defensively, the Hammer sports only modest armor so survival is primarily achieved with speed, deep AMS ammo bays, and screen launchers.

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Hammer
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $8,900,328,000.00
Magazine Cost: $5,400,000.00
BV2: 93,849

Mass: 225,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
1 Naval Gauss Rifle Light
56 AMS (IS)
23 Screen Launcher
198 PPC ER+Cap (IS)
32 Laser Large Variable Speed
2 Naval Laser 55

Class/Model/Name: Hammer
Mass: 225,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 67,500.00
Thrust
Safe: 5
Maximum: 8
Controls: 563.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (7 Integrity) 104,063.00
Jump Sail: (4 Integrity) 42.00
Structural Integrity: 95 21,375.00
Total Heat Sinks: 2373(4746) Double 1,961.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 2,550.00
Fire Control Computers: 1,267.50
Armor: 572 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 427.00
Fore: 95
Fore-Left/Right: 96/96
Aft-Left/Right: 95/95
Aft: 95

Dropship Capacity: 0 0.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 1 50.00
Escape Pods: 25 175.00
Life Boats: 25 175.00

Crew And Passengers:
28 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 280.00
62 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 434.00
77 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 539.00
162 Bay Personnel 0.00
162   Steerage Passengers 810.00

Associated Craft:
20x Aerospace bays (5 doors)
10x Smallcraft bays (3 doors)
48x Battle Armor (12 points) marines
1290 tons standard cargo  (1 door)

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
1 Naval Gauss Rifle Light Nose 9 150 (15-C) Extreme-C 4,500.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) Nose 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
5x 1 Screen Launcher Nose 50 75 (7.5-C) 200.00
10x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) FL 1800 1350 (135-C) 720.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed FL 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
10x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) FR 1800 1350 (135-C) 720.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed FR 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) LBS 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
6x 1 Screen Launcher LBS 60 90 (9-C) 240.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) RBS 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
6x 1 Screen Launcher RBS 60 90 (9-C) 240.00
1 Naval Laser 55 AL 85 55 (5.5-C) 1,100.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed AL 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) AL 180 135 (13.5-C) 72.00
1 Naval Laser 55 AR 85 55 (5.5-C) 1,100.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed AR 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) AR 180 135 (13.5-C) 72.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) Aft 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
6x 1 Screen Launcher Aft 60 90 (9-C) 240.00

Ammo Rounds Mass
AMS (IS) Ammo 19200 1,600.00
Screen Launcher Ammo 240 2,400.00
Naval Gauss Rifle Light Ammo 600 120.00

The Hammer relies on two kinds of ancillary dropships and an Overwatch jumpship.  The simplest of these is the Eyespy Dropshuttle.  As a dropshuttle, it has no KF-boom, so it must be carried internally as cargo.  Using the cargo handling rules, it takes several minutes to deploy the Eyespy.  Every Hammer carries one Eyespy, and other supporting dropships carry other Eyespys.

The Eyespy specializes as a hard-to-hit/hard-to-kill naval spotter with 9/14 speed and 100 tons of heavy ferro aluminum armor.  However, unlike an assault dropship or pocket warship, it has no weapons, allowing it to fit into a small 400 ton package which capital weapons have inherent difficulty tracking.

Code: [Select]

Eyespy Dropshuttle
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 400 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3080
Mass: 400
Battle Value: 5,506
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 191,943,416 C-bills

Fuel: 5.5 tons (385)
Safe Thrust: 9
Maximum Thrust: 14
Heat Sinks: 35
Structural Integrity: 29

Armor
    Nose: 648
    Sides: 545/545
    Aft: 441

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Cargo (0.5 tons)        1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  4 enlisted/non-rated

Notes: Mounts 104 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:     Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
None

The other dropship is the Warmother.  This is a transport dropship according to the treaty, providing capacity for a battalion of 48 mechs (7200 tons), 3 Air Division (72) of aerospace fighters and 3 Air Divisions (72) of Smallcraft, quarters for 1500 passengers (7500 tons), and a generous cargo hold of 5505 tons.  Loaded for a long haul, all bay personnel can use quarters.  The Smallcraft function as transports for battlearmor and light vehicles, as heavy fighters rivaling combat dropships, or as aerospace defenders augmenting AMS loads.  Altogether, the Warmother supports a regimental scale ground deployment.

The Warmother dropship is designed to be highly survivable, using it's remaining free tonnage for an enormous engine providing 5/8 thrust, substantial armor, many screen launchers and AMS in all arcs, backed by a generous ammo load and deep heat sinks which are otherwise little used.

The Warmother has few direct attack weapons.  The philosophy here is that a transport for so much material should avoid direct naval combat.  The 5/8 engine is obviously helpful here, as is the complement of ASF and smallcraft.  An effective deployment of these craft can generate significant offensive firepower although door limits imply that it takes 12 minutes to achieve a full deployment.

The Warmother does have one lethal direct attack ability---an aft-mounted SCL-3 bay can be used to effectively support ground troops once aerospace superiority is established or to strongly discourage pursuers.

Aside from use with navy warships, the Warmother can also be used in a command circuit to transport forces to a system 100s of light years away in a matter of hours. 

Code: [Select]

Warmother Dropship
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 100,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3080
Mass: 100,000
Battle Value: 19,349
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 2,176,675,200 C-bills
Fuel: 600 tons (6,000)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Heat Sinks: 470 (940)
Structural Integrity: 75
Armor      
     Nose: 678      
     Sides: 577/577      
     Aft: 476

Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (72) 3 Doors
Bay 2: Small Craft (72) 3 Doors
Bay 3: Mech (48) 2 Doors
Bay 4: Cargo (5505.0 tons) 1 Door
Escape Pods: 8
Life Boats: 8
Crew: 16 officers, 33 enlisted/non-rated, 30 gunners, 600 bay personnel
Ammunition: 5,760 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (480 tons),
240 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (2,400 tons)

Notes: Mounts 270 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                         Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (90 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                         5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (11520 shots)
4 Screen Launcher                            40   6(60)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots)
3 ER PPC                                     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Fwd (90 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                         5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (11520 shots)
4 Screen Launcher                            40   6(60)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots)
3 ER PPC                                     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)  PPC         
RS/LS Aft (90 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                         5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (11520 shots)
4 Screen Launcher                            40   6(60)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots)
3 ER PPC                                     45   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)  PPC         
Aft (141 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System                         5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (11520 shots)
3 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                  96   9(90)   9(90)    0(0)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
4 Screen Launcher                            40   6(60)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots)

The Crown (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16v0MJaxu3Hz07zjAXYfsHjL-_nUa5MjaAX5AgmpzWX4/edit?usp=sharing) carrier is mostly just a scaled up version of the Hammer which maximizes the treaty limits for carriers.  A few extra modifications exist, like more generous fuel and deeper AMS reserves.  Together with two Warmother dropships, the Crown carrier is capable of generating a Thera-scale ASF swarm to achieve aerospace dominance.  Although all the tactics of a Hammer are available to a Crown, use as a destroyer is discouraged in most circumstances.

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Crown
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $10,159,842,000.00
Magazine Cost: $5,400,000.00
BV2: 99,749

Mass: 425,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
1 Naval Gauss Rifle Light
56 AMS (IS)
23 Screen Launcher
198 PPC ER+Cap (IS)
32 Laser Large Variable Speed
2 Naval Laser 55

Class/Model/Name: Crown
Mass: 425,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 127,500.00
Thrust
Safe: 5
Maximum: 8
Controls: 1,063.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (10 Integrity) 196,563.00
Jump Sail: (4 Integrity) 52.00
Structural Integrity: 95 40,375.00
Total Heat Sinks: 2549(5098) Double 2,000.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 1,267.50
Armor: 867 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 807.00
Fore: 145
Fore-Left/Right: 144/144
Aft-Left/Right: 145/145
Aft: 144

Dropship Capacity: 0.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 0 0.00
Medium: 1 100.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 60 420.00
Life Boats: 60 420.00

Associated Craft:
120x Aerospace bays (9 doors)
30x Smallcraft bays (3 doors)
48x Battle Armor (12 points) marines
2970 tons standard cargo  (1 door)

Crew And Passengers:
35 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 350.00
95 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 665.00
77 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 539.00
462 Bay Personnel 0.00
462 Steerage Passengers 2,310.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
1 Naval Gauss Rifle Light Nose 9 150 (15-C) Extreme-C 4,500.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) Nose 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
5x 1 Screen Launcher Nose 50 75 (7.5-C) 200.00
10x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) FL 1800 1350 (135-C) 720.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed FL 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
10x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) FR 1800 1350 (135-C) 720.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed FR 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) LBS 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
6x 1 Screen Launcher LBS 60 90 (9-C) 240.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) RBS 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
6x 1 Screen Launcher RBS 60 90 (9-C) 240.00
1 Naval Laser 55 AL 85 55 (5.5-C) 1,100.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed AL 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) AL 180 135 (13.5-C) 72.00
1 Naval Laser 55 AR 85 55 (5.5-C) 1,100.00
4x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed AR 80 80 (8-C) 72.00
9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) AR 180 135 (13.5-C) 72.00
7x 2 AMS (IS) Aft 14 42 (4.2-C) 7.00
6x 1 Screen Launcher Aft 60 90 (9-C) 240.00

Ammo Rounds Mass
AMS (IS) Ammo 19200 1,600.00
Screen Launcher Ammo 240 2,400.00
Naval Gauss Rifle Light Ammo 600 120.00

Equipment Mass
Naval C3 4,250.00
NCSS Large 500.00
Imager Hyperspectral 7.50
Imager Infrared 5.00

The last warship is the Anvil (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MbXIO-R7178zJ8U50f2F2mBD6WbgPV2f3Ct7LN_rOtk/edit?usp=sharing).  The Anvil is built as pocket battleship able to compete with the much larger historical McKenna and Texas designs.  The centerpiece of its weapon system is a nose full of naval gauss.  When combined with Naval C3, this weapon system can gut many warships at extreme range in a minute.  Opponents that close with the Anvil discover a devastating secondary array designed to wipe out squadrons of aerospace fighters wholesale.

Aside from functioning as a battleship, the Anvil's complement of Warmothers combined with it's native aerospace fighter complement provide overwhelming aerospace superiority swarms.  Similarly a single Light Naval Gauss provides a mechanism to pound most space stations into scrap from beyond effective response range.

Defensively, the Anvil features an excessive quantity of armor on the nose, Texas-class armor on all arcs, an antimissile system with deep reserves of ammunition and heat sinks, and a smothering array of screen launchers that allow the Anvil to manipulate line of sight to its advantage.

The Anvil is also designed for long duration missions with a substantial fuel reserve.

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Anvil
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $14,460,446,000.00
Magazine Cost: $50,400,000.00
BV2: 276,464

Mass: 735,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
1 Naval Gauss Rifle Light
15 Naval Gauss Rifle Medium
58 AMS (IS)
684 PPC ER+Cap (IS)
21 Screen Launcher
48 Laser Large Variable Speed

Class/Model/Name: Anvil
Mass: 735,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 132,300.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 1,838.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (16 Integrity) 339,938.00
Jump Sail: (5 Integrity) 67.00
Structural Integrity: 150 110,250.00
Total Heat Sinks: 7331(14662) Double 6,772.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 7,988.50
Armor: 2295 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 2,205.00
Fore: 745
Fore-Left/Right: 325/325
Aft-Left/Right: 300/300
Aft: 300

Dropship Capacity: 0.00
Grav Decks:
Medium: 1 100.00
Escape Pods: 60 420.00
Life Boats: 60 420.00

Crew And Passengers:
61 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 610.00
131 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 917.00
171 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 1,197.00
330 Bay Personnel 0.00
330 Steerage Passengers 1,650.00

Associated craft:
40x Aerospace bays
20x Smallcraft bays
100x Battle Armor (25 points)
2472 tons cargo

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
1 Naval Gauss Rifle Light Nose 9 150 (15-C) Extreme-C 4,500.00
7x 2 + 1x 1 Naval Gauss Rifle Medium Nose 225 3750 (375-C) 82,500.00
2x 2 AMS (IS) Nose 4 12 (1.2-C) 2.00
16x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) FL 2880 2160 (216-C) 1,152.00
3x 1 Screen Launcher FL 30 45 (4.5-C) 120.00
6x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed FL 120 120 (12-C) 108.00
16x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) FR 2880 2160 (216-C) 1,152.00
3x 1 Screen Launcher FR 30 45 (4.5-C) 120.00
6x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed FR 120 120 (12-C) 108.00
9x 2 AMS (IS) LBS 18 54 (5.4-C) 9.00
5x 1 Screen Launcher LBS 50 75 (7.5-C) 200.00
4x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) LBS 720 540 (54-C) 288.00
9x 2 AMS (IS) RBS 18 54 (5.4-C) 9.00
5x 1 Screen Launcher RBS 50 75 (7.5-C) 200.00
4x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) RBS 720 540 (54-C) 288.00
16x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) AL 2880 2160 (216-C) 1,152.00
6x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed AL 120 120 (12-C) 108.00
16x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) AR 2880 2160 (216-C) 1,152.00
6x 2 Laser Large Variable Speed AR 120 120 (12-C) 108.00
9x 2 AMS (IS) Aft 18 54 (5.4-C) 9.00
5x 1 Screen Launcher Aft 50 75 (7.5-C) 200.00
4x 9 PPC ER+Cap (IS) Aft 720 540 (54-C) 288.00

Ammo Rounds Mass
Naval Gauss Rifle Medium Ammo 1500 600.00
AMS (IS) Ammo 60000 5,000.00
Naval Gauss Rifle Light Ammo 600 120.00
Screen Launcher Ammo 320 3,200.00

Equipment Mass
Naval C3 7,350.00
NCSS Large 500.00
Imager Hyperspectral 7.50
Imager Infrared 5.00

Each Warship is supported by 1 or 2 Overwatch (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-SIjLQtqzHSjDZP9itGHPqHL2GXzBbFPXTMENZr6ulQ/edit?usp=sharing) class jumpships.  The Overwatch is actually quite expensive by TCN standards, and yet still much cheaper than than mounting drop collars directly on warships.  In addition, the mobile HPG was shifted over to the Overwatch jumpship to reduce costs compared to a warship placement.  Although this separation of dropships and HPG from the warship is undesirable, the jumpship approach has 3 advantages.

• The Overwatch will generally jump into a contested system beyond range of sensors, implying that it will not take a combat role.  In this situation, the expensive and invaluable HPG will be kept out of the line of fire.
• The Overwatch is so much cheaper than warship drop collars that it can support 4 collars for the price 2 and their associated dropships for a similar price.  This made the army happy due to the additional transport provided and means that overwhelming aerospace fighter swarms are more easily achieved.
• Since jumpships are unregulated, they can be built as long as is desirable. 

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Overwatch
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $3,438,957,250.00
Magazine Cost: $0.00
BV2: 4,649

Mass: 300,000
K-F Drive System: Standard with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Station-Keeping Drive
Safe Thrust:
Maximum Thrust: 0
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
36 AMS (IS)
6 Laser Large ER (IS)

Class/Model/Name: Overwatch
Mass: 300,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 3,600.00
Thrust
Safe:
Maximum: 0
Controls: 750.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Standard with L-F Battery (6 Integrity) 288,000.00
Jump Sail: (5 Integrity) 70.00
Structural Integrity: 1 2,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 129(258) Double 0.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 1100 points 449.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 166 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 166.00
Fore: 27
Fore-Left/Right: 28/28
Aft-Left/Right: 28/28
Aft: 27

Dropship Capacity: 4 4,000.00
Grav Decks:
Medium: 4 400.00
Escape Pods: 0.00
Life Boats: 6 42.00

Crew And Passengers:
6 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 60.00
15 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 105.00
11 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 77.00
6 Bay Personnel 0.00
6 2nd Class Passengers 42.00

# Weapons Loc Heat Damage Range Mass
6 AMS (IS) Nose 6 18 (1.8-C) PDS 3.00
6 AMS (IS) FL 6 18 (1.8-C) 3.00
6 AMS (IS) FR 6 18 (1.8-C) 3.00
6 AMS (IS) AL 6 18 (1.8-C) 3.00
6 AMS (IS) AR 6 18 (1.8-C) 3.00
6 AMS (IS) Aft 6 18 (1.8-C) 3.00
1 Laser Large ER (IS) Nose 12 8 (0.8-C) 5.00
1 Laser Large ER (IS) FL 12 8 (0.8-C) 5.00
1 Laser Large ER (IS) FR 12 8 (0.8-C) 5.00
1 Laser Large ER (IS) AL 12 8 (0.8-C) 5.00
1 Laser Large ER (IS) AR 12 8 (0.8-C) 5.00
1 Laser Large ER (IS) Aft 12 8 (0.8-C) 5.00

Ammo Rounds Mass
AMS (IS) Ammo 540 45.00

Equipment Mass
Mobile HPG 50.00

Edit: Major rewrite to minimize costs.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Wrangler on 24 November 2019, 15:49:37

Lagrange, why do you have artillery on your warship??? The Anvil.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 24 November 2019, 16:11:42

Quote from: Wrangler on 24 November 2019, 15:49:37

Lagrange, why do you have artillery on your warship??? The Anvil.

The Long Tom Cannons are experimental tech direct fire AE weapons (see here (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Long_Tom_Cannon)).    In space, they are large damage weapons (good for fire control tonnage minimization) that deal double damage against ASF with reflective armor.

W.r.t. stats the improved heavy gauss is a just-plain-better weapon, but I didn't want a design vulnerable to gauss weapon explosions.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: DarthMetool on 28 November 2019, 09:23:39

Just for clarification, a carrier warship is defined only by designation and not a limitation on any physical characteristic?  Which means someone can build a battleship and call it a carrier?

Also, primitive jumpships under 100 kilotons are unregulated?

EDIT: Finally, would you classify armed, non-transport dropshuttles in the same class as combat dropships?

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Daryk on 28 November 2019, 09:30:02

Quote from: DarthMetool on 28 November 2019, 09:23:39

*snip*
Also, primitive jumpships under 100 kilotons are unregulated?

Yep!  >:D

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 29 November 2019, 15:16:15

Quote from: DarthMetool on 28 November 2019, 09:23:39

Just for clarification, a carrier warship is defined only by designation and not a limitation on any physical characteristic?  Which means someone can build a battleship and call it a carrier?

Carrier is a designation in additional to its size category, so a battleship sized carrier would count towards both your limits on carriers and battleships.

Quote

Also, primitive jumpships under 100 kilotons are unregulated?

Correct. The intent was to allow the Capellans and Comstar* the ability to field a jump capable fleet for asset protection and showing the flag without actually operating warships, and thus make them feel less threatened and therefore less likely to cheat on the treaty.

*both are prohibited warships. Comstar because it is a "non-government" entity, and the Capellans because of that time Kali Liao killed the Capellan government and started lashing out at her neighbors with nerve gas and Thugees.

Quote

EDIT: Finally, would you classify armed, non-transport dropshuttles in the same class as combat dropships?

They would be classified as combat dropships, yes.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: DarthMetool on 03 December 2019, 20:08:41

Last question, and pertinent to my previous post (lookie here, me talkin' all fancy-like.)

Do dropshuttle bays count as docking collars according to the treaty limits?  If not, I'm about to work on an interesting couple ship designs.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: truetanker on 04 December 2019, 22:56:25

I wonder if my Scapha I and II's along with the Trojan II and Kuati I had in the same Warship Arms Race for Marian Hegemony would work?

After all they were all 100k warships, except that 1 Kuati, eh Smegish?  ;)

TT

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Atarlost on 08 December 2019, 14:17:18

I have an interpretation of old SLDF design principles with a new emphasis on anti-missile and anti-fighter defense in fitting with the treaty limits.  The warship pricing is probably off.  I updated MML partway through writing the post because it wouldn't export dropships and there was something about warship pricing in the changelog.  I'm not going to go back through and re-export all the warships just for a price bug.

In the battleship slot coming in at a modest 1.2 million tons (you always report these sorts of things with empty cargo holds, though it does just squeak under the limit if someone insists on using its fully loaded jump signature weight) is the Warspite class.  If I did my math right it has enough point defense to reliably stop all capital missiles other than the Kraken and mounts large arrays of silver bullet gauss rifles for anti-fighter defense.  The energy armament reaches out to extreme range and is capable of bracket fire assuming Comstar had the original fire control software and didn't delete it off the ex-SLDF ships before handing them over.  And if not, eh it's not like they're wasting ammo.  And there are big paired NAC mounts for when someone inevitably gets in close.  It's not fast enough to dictate engagement ranges after all.  It can cruise at 1g and that's good enough.

Code: [Select]

Warspite Battleship
Mass: 1,500,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 1,500,000
Battle Value: 140,002
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 30,979,676,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 2
Maximum Thrust: 3
Sail Integrity: 7
KF Drive Integrity: 30
Heat Sinks: 4565 (9130)
Structural Integrity: 90

Armor
    Nose: 459
    Fore Sides: 459/459
    Aft Sides: 459/459
    Aft: 459

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Small Craft (5)         1 Door   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (315706.0 tons)   1 Door   

Ammunition:
    2,016 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons),
    2,048 rounds of Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle ammunition (4 tons),
    80 rounds of NAC/35 ammunition (4 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 2 (100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 104
Crew:  75 officers, 280 enlisted/non-rated, 147 gunners, 145 bay personnel, 20 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
2,700 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                         Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (30 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                       14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6048 shots)
16 Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle                 16   14(144) 14(144) 14(144)   0(0)   LBX AC     
    Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle Ammo (4096 shots)
FRS/FLS (2,225 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                          900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                  240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (20 shots)
7 Naval Laser 55                             1085 70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  Capital Laser
    7 Naval Laser 45
RBS/LBS (30 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                       14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6048 shots)
16 Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle                 16   14(144) 14(144) 14(144)   0(0)   LBX AC     
    Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle Ammo (4096 shots)
ARS/ALS (2,225 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                          900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                  240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (20 shots)
7 Naval Laser 55                             1085 70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  Capital Laser
    7 Naval Laser 45
Aft (30 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                       14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6048 shots)
16 Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle                 16   14(144) 14(144) 14(144)   0(0)   LBX AC     
    Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle Ammo (4096 shots)


At 730 kilotons (again, you report these things dry) the Vanguard is not pushing the mass limits even fully loaded.  This is so it can achieve a sprightly 3g max thrust using the same transit drive as the Warspite.  You're going to see that transit drive again later.  The anti-missile defense is the same as Warspite's, but the anti-fighter suite is a more modest mix of ERLL and LB-5X autocannons.  It has big extreme range capital laser bays for offense and mounts eight Kraken-T launchers because there's not a lot of point in smaller capital missiles. 

Code: [Select]

Vanguard Cruiser
Mass: 750,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 750,000
Battle Value: 108,213
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 22,400,418,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 16
Heat Sinks: 1313 (2626)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 390
    Fore Sides: 390/390
    Aft Sides: 390/390
    Aft: 390

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (20050.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,072 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons),
    80 rounds of Kraken (Tele-Operated) ammunition (400 tons),
    800 rounds of LB 5-X Cluster ammunition (4 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (50 m, 50 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 62
Crew:  47 officers, 158 enlisted/non-rated, 74 gunners, 80 bay personnel, 12 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
2,250 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (86 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 ER Large Laser                            72   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)     0(0)   Laser       
FRS/FLS (1,189 Heat)
7 Naval Laser 55                            1085 70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  Capital Laser
    7 Naval Laser 45
2 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)          100  20(200) 20(200) 20(200) 20(200)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (20 shots)
4 LB 5-X AC                                  4   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   LBX AC     
    LB 5-X Cluster Ammo (4000 shots)
RBS/LBS (86 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 ER Large Laser                            72   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)     0(0)   Laser       
ARS/ALS (1,189 Heat)
7 Naval Laser 55                            1085 70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  Capital Laser
    7 Naval Laser 45
2 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)          100  20(200) 20(200) 20(200) 20(200)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (20 shots)
4 LB 5-X AC                                  4   2(20)   2(20)   2(20)     0(0)   LBX AC     
    LB 5-X Cluster Ammo (4000 shots)
Aft (86 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 ER Large Laser                            72   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)     0(0)   Laser       


The first of four smaller warships is the Speedy class destroyer.  At a bit over 480 kilotons (just pushing the weight limit full) it provides anti-fighter and anti-dropship escort for larger vessels and lacks docking collars to bring the price down.  It has modest naval laser bays fore and aft and the speed to dictate engagement range against most dropships and all previous warships save the Mako class.  Broadside subcapital laser bays and light gauss bays provide extreme (in fighter scale) range anti-fighter defense with ERPPCs and silver bullet gausses for long and shorter ranges.  The SCL and ERPPC bays will also erase dropships with the ERPPCs equipped with capacitors because it's easier to get a treaty compliant dropship to survive a 1500 point bay than a 1000 point bay. 

Code: [Select]

Speedy Destroyer
Mass: 500,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 500,000
Battle Value: 63,418
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 9,402,194,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust: 9
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 12
Heat Sinks: 645 (1290)
Structural Integrity: 87

Armor
    Nose: 169
    Fore Sides: 151/151
    Aft Sides: 151/151
    Aft: 151

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (10)        1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (19405.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,280 rounds of Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle ammunition (4 tons),
    1,280 rounds of Light Gauss Rifle ammunition (4 tons),
    20 rounds of Kraken (Tele-Operated) ammunition (100 tons),
    20 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (10 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 2 (50 m, 50 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 43
Crew:  32 officers, 123 enlisted/non-rated, 36 gunners, 50 bay personnel, 16 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
870 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                         Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (478 Heat)
14 Laser AMS                                 98   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)           100  20(200) 20(200) 20(200) 20(200)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (20 shots)
4 Naval Laser 45                             280  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (160 Heat)
5 Light Gauss Rifle                           5   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (5120 shots)
5 Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle                   5   5(45)   5(45)   5(45)     0(0)   LBX AC     
    Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle Ammo (2560 shots)
10 ER PPC+PPC Capacitor                      150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         
RBS/LBS (226 Heat)
14 Laser AMS                                 98   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)                  128  12(120) 12(120)  0(0)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
ARS/ALS (160 Heat)
5 Light Gauss Rifle                           5   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (5120 shots)
5 Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle                   5   5(45)   5(45)   5(45)     0(0)   LBX AC     
    Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle Ammo (2560 shots)
10 ER PPC+PPC Capacitor                      150  10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   PPC         
Aft (398 Heat)
14 Laser AMS                                 98   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval Laser 45                             280  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital Laser
2 Screen Launcher                            20   3(30)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots)


The Resolute class frigate is another 48 kiloton ship (really 50 kt, but no one reports these things honestly).  It's basically a lower budget Vanguard with similar capital laser bays.  It's slower and has a different anti-fighter layout with more emphasis on range with SCL-1s able to start engaging at long capital range and light gausses starting at extreme fighter. 

Code: [Select]

Resolute Frigate
Mass: 500,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 500,000
Battle Value: 74,242
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 16,209,106,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 12
Heat Sinks: 1253 (2506)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 265
    Fore Sides: 265/265
    Aft Sides: 265/265
    Aft: 265

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (25532.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,072 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons),
    1,152 rounds of Light Gauss Rifle ammunition (4 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (50 m, 50 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 56
Crew:  48 officers, 117 enlisted/non-rated, 120 gunners, 40 bay personnel, 12 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
1,500 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (20 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 Light Gauss Rifle                          6   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)    5(48)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (4608 shots)
FRS/FLS (1,229 Heat)
7 Naval Laser 55                            1085 70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  Capital Laser
    7 Naval Laser 45
6 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                 144  6(60)   6(60)   6(60)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
RBS/LBS (20 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 Light Gauss Rifle                          6   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)    5(48)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (4608 shots)
ARS/ALS (1,229 Heat)
7 Naval Laser 55                            1085 70(700) 70(700) 70(700) 70(700)  Capital Laser
    7 Naval Laser 45
6 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                 144  6(60)   6(60)   6(60)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
Aft (20 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 Light Gauss Rifle                          6   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)    5(48)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (4608 shots)


Built on the same frame as the Resolute is the Glorious class carrier.  Gone are the mixed capital laser bays in favor of much larger subcapital bays and fighters.  And more than twice as much cargo and substantially larger fuel reserves to feed those fighters.  It also carries a double roster of pilots so they can rest during sustained flight ops. 

Code: [Select]

Glorious Carrier
Mass: 500,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 500,000
Battle Value: 49,178
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 16,125,408,000 C-bills

Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 12
Heat Sinks: 1253 (2506)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 265
    Fore Sides: 265/265
    Aft Sides: 265/265
    Aft: 265

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 5:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 7:  Cargo (52924.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,072 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons),
    1,152 rounds of Light Gauss Rifle ammunition (4 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (50 m, 50 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 108
Crew:  46 officers, 109 enlisted/non-rated, 120 gunners, 240 bay personnel, 120 passengers, 12 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
1,500 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (20 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 Light Gauss Rifle                          6   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)    5(48)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (4608 shots)
FRS/FLS (480 Heat)
20 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                480  20(200) 20(200) 20(200)   0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
RBS/LBS (20 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 Light Gauss Rifle                          6   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)    5(48)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (4608 shots)
ARS/ALS (480 Heat)
20 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/1)                480  20(200) 20(200) 20(200)   0(0)   Sub-Capital Laser
Aft (20 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
6 Light Gauss Rifle                          6   5(48)   5(48)   5(48)    5(48)   AC         
    Light Gauss Rifle Ammo (4608 shots)


Last among the warships at 240 kilotons (really 250) is the Squirrel class corvette (yes, that's a real Royal Navy ship name).  This is a specialty blockade ship.  Its job is to sit in orbit around whatever moon produces the closest pirate point to a rebellious planet or the L1 point if there's no moon and intercept anyone trying to land or take off.  It can run down any transport dropship and force it to surrender or destroy it with its forward naval laser bay.  If it is desirable to permit humanitarian supplies to pass the blockade it has five squads of BA and a platoon of conventional marines to conduct inspections.  In the event an actual military force attempts to break the blockade it can outrun any warship except the Speedy class and make for a jump point, and it can try to deter fast dropships with its aft capital laser array.  There isn't much armor, but it's job when confronted with anything that can seriously fight is to run away while reporting the contact with its onboard HPG. 

Code: [Select]

Squirrel Corvette
Mass: 250,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 250,000
Battle Value: 25,701
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 14,805,248,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust: 9
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 7
Heat Sinks: 469
Structural Integrity: 48

Armor
    Nose: 45
    Fore Sides: 45/45
    Aft Sides: 45/45
    Aft: 45

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (5)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (6)             1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (10030.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    3,072 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (256 tons),
    80 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (800 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (50 m, 50 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 34
Crew:  23 officers, 115 enlisted/non-rated, 30 gunners, 37 bay personnel, 28 marines, 20 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
240 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (294 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
4 Naval Laser 45                            280  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital Laser
FRS/FLS (240 Heat)
20 ER Large Laser                           240  16(160) 16(160) 16(160)   0(0)   Laser       
RBS/LBS (54 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
4 Screen Launcher                           40   6(60)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (40 shots)
ARS/ALS (240 Heat)
20 ER Large Laser                           240  16(160) 16(160) 16(160)   0(0)   Laser       
Aft (294 Heat)
14 Anti-Missile System                      14   4(42)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (9216 shots)
4 Naval Laser 45                            280  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital Laser

In the dropship department filling the role of the old Titan is the Hecatoncheir.  It doesn't have quite as generous a cargo hold, but it's still light years better than the Vengeance in its ability to sustain fighters.  And it's faster and better armed. 

Code: [Select]

Hecatoncheir PWS
Type: Military Aerodyne
Mass: 15,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 15,000
Battle Value: 9,628
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Cost: 2,559,470,400 C-bills

Fuel: 600 tons (18,000)
Safe Thrust: 6
Maximum Thrust: 9
Heat Sinks: 292 (584)
Structural Integrity: 16

Armor
    Nose: 284
    Sides: 239/239
    Aft: 194

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (2739.0 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 10
Crew:  4 officers, 3 enlisted/non-rated, 11 gunners, 40 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 71 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                         Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                   Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (224 Heat)
4 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)  128  12(120) 12(120)  0(0)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
8 ER Large Laser             96   6(64)   6(64)   6(64)    0(0)  Laser       
RW/LW (57 Heat)
10 ER Medium Laser           50   5(50)   5(50)    0(0)    0(0)  Laser       
1 Laser AMS                   7    0(3)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
RW/LW Aft (7 Heat)
1 Laser AMS                   7    0(3)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
Aft (96 Heat)
8 ER Large Laser             96   6(64)   6(64)   6(64)    0(0)  Laser       


The Shieldbearer is a new and much upscaled take on the old SLDF Pentagon.  Firepower is more concentrated forwards in the form of a 27 point subcapital laser bay in the nose with 15 point Piranha bays flanking it.  The aft half is protected solely by laser AMS and screen launchers, which it has on all sides. 

Code: [Select]

Shieldbearer PWS
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 15,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3081
Mass: 15,000
Battle Value: 31,922
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 656,712,000 C-bills

Fuel: 500 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 7
Maximum Thrust: 11
Heat Sinks: 215 (430)
Structural Integrity: 20

Armor
    Nose: 394
    Sides: 333/333
    Aft: 269

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (1082.0 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    60 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (600 tons),
    100 rounds of Piranha ammunition (1,000 tons)

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 6
Crew:  6 officers, 26 gunners, 10 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 71 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (312 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Screen Launcher                         10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (10 shots)
9 Sub-Capital Laser (SCL/3)               288  27(270) 27(270)  0(0)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
RS/LS Fwd (69 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Screen Launcher                         10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (10 shots)
5 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)  45   15(150) 15(150) 15(150)  0(0)  Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (50 shots)
RS/LS Aft (24 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Screen Launcher                         10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (10 shots)
Aft (24 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Screen Launcher                         10   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  Screen Launcher
    Screen Launcher Ammo (10 shots)


I'm not sure exactly what the ships inherited from Comstar are or which of them and the Covenant need to be altered or deactivated to comply with the treaty and so don't have refit proposals. 
First production should be the 10 Gloriouses.  I'm pretty sure the SLDF had no carriers and I expect them to be the most effective of the designs using the 90kt transit drive and it's better to start small.  These should be followed by 2 Speedys for every legacy cruiser or battleship to provide them with some defensive support and make sure that we can build the 180kt transit drive without messing up a cruise or battleship.  I would then alternate Squirrels, Resolutes, and Vanguards until I have 8 Squirrels and filled the cruiser quota.  That gives a force that while lacking battleships comfortably exceeds the single major power naval limit.  At that point the legacy ships come in for refit to get AMS and anti-fighter guns and LF batteries and mobile HPGs put in and capital missiles removed or replaced with Krakens.  At this point I'd start work on filling the battleship quota with Warspites and reassigning Speedys that formerly escorted the legacy cruisers to them and then building more Speedys until I have 40.  If the SLDF exclusive of Squirrels has not surpassed 60 million tons (ie. a two power standard) (also not counting cargo because in character I'm sure everyone else will cheat at least that much) Resolutes are to be built until it does and then probably Squirrels to the 200 ship quota because blockades are a sanction that can actually be used while if the SLDF navy is ever actually involved in a real shooting war with more than one of the major member states things have probably already degenerated enough that holding things together is a doomed exercise. 

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Fyrwulf on 08 December 2019, 19:23:06

The obvious cheat to me is to build out to the limitations within the constraints of available treaty compliant designs and then build a god awful number of unarmed jumpships with enough collars that the sheer number of deployable dropships is a serious threat to a real warship fleet.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 08 December 2019, 23:54:46

Quote from: Atarlost on 08 December 2019, 14:17:18

I updated MML partway through writing the post because it wouldn't export dropships and there was something about warship pricing in the changelog. 

I noticed something buggy in MML warship pricing as well---hence using the spreadsheet.

Design-wise, do you need 12 or 14 AMS to take out a Killer Whale?  (Basically: how does the rounding work?)  Also, it's my understanding that a flight of 2 KWs would end up with a +4 penalty to hit rather than destruction. 

Anyways, I'm glad to see your designs---they are giving me several ideas.

If smegish has a chance to detail designs, that would be interesting as well.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 09 December 2019, 00:33:41

AMS rounds normally, so 12 is sufficient to take out a killer whale.

Oh yeah, forgot to answer this question when it was first raised, but dropshuttle bays are completely unmentioned in the treaty, so there is effectively no limit (beyond construction rules of course).

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 09 December 2019, 10:35:03

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 09 December 2019, 00:33:41

AMS rounds normally, so 12 is sufficient to take out a killer whale.

Having a bit more could make sense for robustness against battle damage.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 13 December 2019, 00:18:36

Just came across this,  tagging for later.

Have some great ideas for FC

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 15 January 2020, 20:30:51

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 12 November 2019, 05:13:08

Basic Setting: "...and the rise of the Heirs of Steiner-Davion..." This is an alternate setting where Hanse Davion won the Succession Wars and the Inner Sphere was unified under the banner of First Lord Victor Steiner-Davion by 3067. Explaining how that came about would take more bandwidth than the specifics of the challenge itself, so I'll just leave it at this. Everything came up Hanse, the Draconis Combine has become one of the First Lord's most ardent supporters, the Federated Suns (under Katherine) has become one of his most ardent opponents, the Capellan Confederation is under military occupation for rebelling again, it's 3081, and the Star League council has just ratified a naval treaty to prevent an arms race that might bring it all crashing down.


Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to build a navy compliant with the treaty specifications described below for one of the Star League's member states. (Federated Suns, Lyran Commonwealth, Draconis Combine, Free Worlds League, technically the Capellan Confederation I suppose, also the Free Rasalhague Republic and Magistracy of Canopus as minor powers, and the Star League Defense Force as itself). You can assume that this state starts with the fleet it had at roughly the modern height of its naval power in the canon timeline (so just before the jihad for most, or before the Fedcom civil war for the Suns and the Commonwealth, with adjustments where appropriate). The Star League Defense Force has inherited Comstar's entire navy (ten warships, that's all, we swear. What would we be doing with a large fleet?) and received the cruiser Covenant from the Draconis Combine, but beyond that, they're starting with a blank slate. 

Some Questions based on the setting.

1.  By "everything" comes up Hanse, can we assume the 4SW & 39 war happened but with results favored towards the FC side?

2.  How is Kathrine in charge of the FS half of the FC?

3.  Would the SLDF have also absorbed the CC Fleet ships from their "rebellion" ?   So they have those few Destroyers & the Cruisers (Phoenix transated?)


This is mostly for the fluff history I'm giving to each of my designs, which are almost all based on existing FC designs.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Liam's Ghost on 17 January 2020, 02:59:59

Quote from: Hellraiser on 15 January 2020, 20:30:51

1.  By "everything" comes up Hanse, can we assume the 4SW & 39 war happened but with results favored towards the FC side?

The key turning point was the War of 3039, where instead of flinching at Theodore's counter attack, Hanse ordered his forces to push on. This allowed Theodore to cause some chaos in the rear, but in the end, he couldn't sustain his operation, the Combine kept losing worlds, and the war ended in an unambiguous defeat for them. It all snowballs from there. Without the humbling affect of not winning the war of 3039 and with the Combine on the back foot, Hanse pressures Candace Liao into usurping her sister or watching the Fedcom annex the Capellan Confederation. With Theodore's methods discredited by the loss of the War of 3039, the DCMS actually becomes more traditional and hidebound, which, combined with the damage from the last war they still hadn't recovered from, sees them get beaten again in the war of 3050. This time they are so badly beaten that Hohiro Kurita (whose dad and granddad are lost in the fighting) formally surrenders in 3057 and acknowledges Victor Steiner Davion as First Lord of the Star League, sealing the compact by marrying his sister Omi to Victor. At this point, the Free Worlds League decides it's better to recognize his claim than try to fight everybody else.

Quote

2.  How is Kathrine in charge of the FS half of the FC?

This was actually the original intention of the Fedcom alliance, with Katherine being regent of the Fed Suns and Peter being Regent of the Commonwealth while Victor ruled over the whole thing. It's why Katherine was raised primarily on New Avalon. Keep in mind that she's still Katherine, just a Katherine whose parents were around a bit longer, giving their children more time to grow, mature, and get experience before they had to rule. So her machinations are more subtle, more refined, but her goals are the same.

Quote

3.  Would the SLDF have also absorbed the CC Fleet ships from their "rebellion" ?   So they have those few Destroyers & the Cruisers (Phoenix transated?)

Yes, though because they were mostly used for Terrorism during the last rebellion and thus have bad PR, the SLDF prefers to keep them in reserve.

Quote

This is mostly for the fluff history I'm giving to each of my designs, which are almost all based on existing FC designs.

Neat. I look forward to it.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Wrangler on 17 January 2020, 08:40:47

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 17 January 2020, 02:59:59

The key turning point was the War of 3039, where instead of flinching at Theodore's counter attack, Hanse ordered his forces to push on. This allowed Theodore to cause some chaos in the rear, but in the end, he couldn't sustain his operation, the Combine kept losing worlds, and the war ended in an unambiguous defeat for them. It all snowballs from there. Without the humbling affect of not winning the war of 3039 and with the Combine on the back foot, Hanse pressures Candace Liao into usurping her sister or watching the Fedcom annex the Capellan Confederation. With Theodore's methods discredited by the loss of the War of 3039, the DCMS actually becomes more traditional and hidebound, which, combined with the damage from the last war they still hadn't recovered from, sees them get beaten again in the war of 3050. This time they are so badly beaten that Hohiro Kurita (whose dad and granddad are lost in the fighting) formally surrenders in 3057 and acknowledges Victor Steiner Davion as First Lord of the Star League, sealing the compact by marrying his sister Omi to Victor. At this point, the Free Worlds League decides it's better to recognize his claim than try to fight everybody else.

This was actually the original intention of the Fedcom alliance, with Katherine being regent of the Fed Suns and Peter being Regent of the Commonwealth while Victor ruled over the whole thing. It's why Katherine was raised primarily on New Avalon. Keep in mind that she's still Katherine, just a Katherine whose parents were around a bit longer, giving their children more time to grow, mature, and get experience before they had to rule. So her machinations are more subtle, more refined, but her goals are the same.

Yes, though because they were mostly used for Terrorism during the last rebellion and thus have bad PR, the SLDF prefers to keep them in reserve.

Neat. I look forward to it.

Is there a post of this alt-universe's history?

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 17 January 2020, 13:30:33

*looks around*  Well, I see we've rounded up the usual suspects.

Ill try to find a spreadsheet tuned for the relevant period and look at seeing what an updated, upteched version of of my old design ideas would look like.  Hmm.  I notice were tonnage but not cost limited, so likely assumptions:

Fighter carriage will be maxed (value added)
Docking Collars will be maxed (same)
Cargo likely light, as cargo carriage from warship tonnage eats into warship tonnage, but cargo carriage from droppers, etc. is 'free'.

Hmm.  Im also tempted to revist my 'warships on the cheap' experiment, focusing on avoiding the hyper-expensive collars in favor of cargo, dropshuttles, drop-small-craft, etc.   I know its not in the treaty 'terms', but how much do we care (if at all) about C-Bills?

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 17 January 2020, 23:30:57

Maxed Collars won't happen per his rules.

There is a 2-4-6 limit based on tonnage.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 18 January 2020, 06:44:28

Quote from: Hellraiser on 17 January 2020, 23:30:57

Maxed Collars won't happen per his rules.

There is a 2-4-6 limit based on tonnage.

Right, max per treaty - every ship should probably have that treaty max of 2 (or 4, or 6) - as we are mass and hull-count limited, but not C-Bill Limited.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Sharpnel on 18 January 2020, 12:16:01

Here's my stab at the Canopian Fleet

2 Amazon-class Carrier (600KT)
4 Canopus-class Cruiser (720KT)
4 Bellona-class Light Cruiser (600KT)
4 Artemis-class Destroyer (480KT)
6 Vixen-class Corvettes (200KT)

Here's the Canopus-class Cruiser (HMS Canopus, HMS Marantha, HMS Hardcore, HMS Dunianshire)

Code: [Select]

Canopus-class Cruiser Warship
Mass: 720,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 720,000
Battle Value: 128,273
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 19,621,492,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 16
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 180
    Fore Sides: 130/130
    Aft Sides: 130/130
    Aft: 160

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (91164.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (80 tons),
    100 rounds of White Shark ammunition (4,000 tons),
    240 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (192 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 35
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  80 officers, 237 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 104 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
1,015 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (620 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (350 Heat)
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                        270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (1,260 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 200  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 200  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (90 shots)
3 Naval PPC (Medium)                        405  27(270) 27(270) 27(270) 27(270)  Capital PPC
3 Naval PPC (Medium)                        405  27(270) 27(270) 27(270) 27(270)  Capital PPC
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (335 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
3 Naval Laser 55                            255  17(165) 17(165) 17(165) 17(165)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (845 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
3 Naval Laser 55                            255  17(165) 17(165) 17(165) 17(165)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)



Here's the Amazon-class Carrier for starters (HMS Amazon, HMS Riachuelo)

Code: [Select]

Amazon-Class Carrier Warship
Mass: 600,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 600,000
Battle Value: 49,808
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 18,833,683,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 13
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 120
    Fore Sides: 100/100
    Aft Sides: 100/100
    Aft: 120

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (24)            2 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 7:  Cargo (91073.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,920 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (160 tons),
    80 rounds of White Shark ammunition (3,200 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 35
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  54 officers, 126 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 232 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
747.5 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (592 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
FRS/FLS (422 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
RBS/LBS (592 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
ARS/ALS (422 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
Aft (592 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2880 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       



and the Bellona-class Light Cruiser (HMS Bellona, HMS Boudica, HMS Penthesilea, HMS Majestosa)

Code: [Select]

Bellona-Class Light Cruiser Warship
Mass: 600,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 600,000
Battle Value: 121,896
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 19,048,649,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 13
Heat Sinks: 0
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 110
    Fore Sides: 90/90
    Aft Sides: 90/90
    Aft: 110

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (16)            3 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (30000.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (8 tons),
    240 rounds of NAC/25 ammunition (2.4 tons),
    60 rounds of White Shark ammunition (120 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (100 m, 100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 35
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  70 officers, 238 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 104 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
673 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (572 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (437 Heat)
3 Naval PPC (Medium)                        405  27(270) 27(270) 27(270) 27(270)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (1,152 Heat)
6 Naval PPC (Medium)                        810  54(540) 54(540) 54(540) 54(540)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (342 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (612 Heat)
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                        270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)


Artemis-class Destroyer (HMS Artemis, HMS Kali, HMS Hecate, HMS Hippolyta)

Code: [Select]

Artemis-class Destroyer Warship
Mass: 480,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 480,000
Battle Value: 116,331
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 18,397,083,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 11
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 110
    Fore Sides: 85/85
    Aft Sides: 85/85
    Aft: 90

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (16)            4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (31225.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (8 tons),
    240 rounds of NAC/25 ammunition (2.4 tons),
    100 rounds of White Shark ammunition (200 tons),
    120 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (2.4 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (85 m, 85 m)
Escape Pods: 25
Life Boats: 25
Crew:  55 officers, 145 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 52 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
623 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (280 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 200  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (60 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (390 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
1 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                 100  30(300) 30(300) 30(300)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (30 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (390 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                 170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (60 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (375 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)    30   6(60)   6(60)   6(60)    6(60)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
1 Naval Laser 55                            85   6(55)   6(55)   6(55)    6(55)   Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (600 Heat)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                            48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)


Vixen-class Corvette (HMS Vixen, HMS Booker, HMS Weistheimer, HMS Cate's Hold, HMS Thraxa, HMS Royal Foxx)

Code: [Select]

Vixen-class Corvette Warship
Mass: 200,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 200,000
Battle Value: 48,547
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 12,031,326,000 C-bills

Fuel: 3,000 tons (15,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Heat Sinks: 2,000
Structural Integrity: 65

Armor
    Nose: 60
    Fore Sides: 45/45
    Aft Sides: 45/45
    Aft: 60

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (8)             4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (2)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (8540.0 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (80 tons),
    60 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (24 tons),
    80 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (2,400 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (85 m, 85 m)
Escape Pods: 18
Life Boats: 18
Crew:  34 officers, 66 enlisted/non-rated, 50 gunners, 26 bay personnel

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
258 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (268 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
FRS/FLS (110 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
1 Naval Laser 35                            52   4(35)   4(35)   4(35)     0(0)   Capital Laser
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
RBS/LBS (368 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (30 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                         210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
ARS/ALS (142 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                            104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)
Aft (162 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 35                            104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
3 ER Large Laser                            36   2(24)   2(24)   2(24)     0(0)   Laser       
2 Anti-Missile System                        2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots)



Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 18 January 2020, 15:49:14

Quote from: marcussmythe on 18 January 2020, 06:44:28

Right, max per treaty - every ship should probably have that treaty max of 2 (or 4, or 6) - as we are mass and hull-count limited, but not C-Bill Limited.

Ah, yes, well in that case, yes, max is very likely since they aren't very large maximums as is.

My "modifications" that I'm working on for FC canon ships are all requiring major changes, in terms of DropShip count.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 22 January 2020, 11:01:48

LCN:

After much debate and several refit proposals for existing craft, the leadership of the Commonwealth settled on a design proposal focusing on all-new construction for their active forces, to be followed by a steady schedule of refits of both active and naval reserve vessels.  First Lord of the Admiralty John Angler Alarion, 17th Earl Angler and Duke Alarion, managed to mobilize the financiers behind the Lyran Shipbuilding interests to pressure for a 'forward looking' approach, stressing the value of regenerating and expanding capabilities in the Lyran Navy.  This of course served the profits of those industries, but also (it was argued) represented the best way to keep the naval design and construction skills and personnel in readiness for expanded future service - history taught well that Naval Construction Treaties lasted only until the first shot is fired, and only the dead know the end of war.

Ironically, given their forward-looking focus, the design inspiration for their naval designs looked back to the early days of the Commonwealth, taking designs long out of service and adapting their concepts for the newer era.  The first of those was to be the pride of the 'New Lyran Navy', the Buri Class Battleships.  This was followed closely by construction of the Tyr class heavy cruiser, Ullr Light Cruisers and the later Heimdaller support frigates.

Fleet Composition:
6x BB Buri (1.5 MT, 3/5, 150 SI, 80xHNPPC, 80 x Lt. Gauss, ELRM/20, HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
12 x CA Tyr (980 KT, 3/5, 150 SI, 36xNAC/20, 32xNL/55, 80 x Lt. Gauss, ELRM/20, HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
12 x CL Ullr (510 KT, 4/6, 120 SI, 32xNL/55, 80 x Lt. Gauss, ELRM/20, HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
30 x FF Heimdallr (100 KT, 5/8, 90 SI, 80x HPPC w/Cap, AMS)
0 x BB Wotan (2.4 MT, 3/5, 100 SI, 80 HNPPC, 180 Fighters, multiple regiment transport - Mass production design study)

This composition fills out the maximum total allowed hulls (60), while using almost all of the allowed tonnage (29.98) and acheving most, but not all, of the maximum dropship carriage on warship hulls (the LCN Carries 192 Dropships on its Warship Hulls.  A hypothetical 10/30/20 navy would carry 220, and more fighters, but it was felt that 'heavy' cruisers and battleships provided enough advantages to justify losing the additional carriage).  More BBs and CAs were desired, but flag showing and peacetime taskings were felt to take precedence, and the high combat staying power of the modern CA and BB hulls was felt to make up for the lack of numbers, especially in combination with combat dropships.

Some dropship designs may be licensed from other powers (-cough- Lagrange)

The Fleet is organized into six squadrons, on paper broken down as follows:
1 Buri BB Mechs, 3 Regiments Vehicles,
2 Tyr CA
2 Ullr CL
5 Heimdallr FF






BB Buri

Code: [Select]

The Buri class was laid down to provide the core of the anticipated LCN Task Forces.  Though officially a
treaty limit Battleship, rumors and leaks of design documents indicated that there was something unusual
about her K-F Core, with excessive cooling and power leads into and out of it.  This lead to a tail-chase of
rumors exploring the idea that the Lyrans were experimenting with some kind of 'superjump' system or
other unknown capacity, and in an unusual fit of competence, the Lyran Intelligence services encouraged
them to jump down this rabbit hole, eventually 'revealing' that the Naval Architects of the LCN had tried for
something special, failed, and ended up with an overdesigned, inefficient FTL Drive for their flagship class.

The truth was, as usual, somewhat more prosaic.  Too many cooks had their hands in the stew, and by the
time the first hull was nearing completion, it was realized that she was somewhat over designed mass (thus
requiring the KF Core refit).  Rather than rebuild from ground zero, her flight decks were intentionally under-
equipped with fighter service bays, and large sections of her cargo bays were consigned to 'dead space' in
the hull, unused and unaccounted for.  While this requires the LCN to be somewhat cagey about how close it
lets other powers to her hull and design specs, for fear of sanctions from the Star League, it does allow them
to quickly install the additional fighter capacity and open the doors on her cargo space, expanding the short
ranged defensive BB into a reasonable cruiser BBV as an 'instant breakout', if another navy is found to be
violating the treaty.

Even in her peacetime configuration, Buri is a solid, if somewhat uninspired, treaty battleship.  With the
usual treaty-maximum parasite craft, she focuses on maximizing armored resilience and long range
firepower.  With the same extreme range firepower (and better broadside fire) than the venerable McKenna
(so often a yardstick for Battleship design), coupled with over three times the armored protection, the Buri
are designed to operate in squadrons, using massed fires from their bracketed, C3-Enabled PPC Batteries to
deliver decisive fires from outside enemy engagement ranges.


((Out of character note - the Buri is a tip of my hat to both my beloved and unused design from the old warship
design race challenge, and also to the very real tendency of every naval power to 'game' naval treaties - arguments
about how ships are to be weighed, at what load, as well as deception, lies, overbuilding, and the like, along with
claimed violations, escalator clauses.. the gamesmanship that went on around the IRL Washington Treaties is really
interesting if your the sort of person that cares about such things))


Buri Class Battleship
Mass: 1,550,000 (1,500,000 Official)
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3083
Battle Value: 283366
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 41,905,542,000

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 7
KF Drive Integrity: 31
Heat Sinks: 8480 (16,960)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 570
    Fore Sides: 900/900
    Aft Sides: 900/900
    Aft: 570

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 10 Doors
                60 Fighters (Offically 30)
                15 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 10 Doors
                60 Fighters (Offically 30)
                15 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                96 Battle Armor Marines (2 Companies)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 3 Doors
                Cargo: 43,937 Tons (Offically 5,000 Tons)

Ammunition:
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 2 (120 m)
Escape Pods: 200
Life Boats: 200
Crew:  96 officers, 385 enlisted/non-rated, 240 bay personnel, 96 BA marines, 120 Passengers

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     Naval C3
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Difficult to Maintain
    Hard to Pilot
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Improved Targeting (Long)
Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)

FL, FR, AL, AR
20 HNPPC in 5 bays of 4



CA Tyr

Code: [Select]

As the first Buri keel was being laid, the design work for the follow on Cruiser class, Tyr, was being completed.
Realizing that Buri was destined to be overweight, Tyr sacrified her intended NGauss armament for a lighter array of
NAC and NL mounts.  Though this cost her some of her combat range, it allowed her to maintain firepower while
ensuring the final design was, if only slightly, UNDER the maximum mass allowed by treaty, with some room for
growth.   Intended to serve as support for the heavier Buri as well as capable of independent cruising operations, Tyr
shared the point-defense suite of her larger predecessor at a 1:1 ratio, as well as matching all of Buri's extensive
electronics suite.  Unlike her larger sister, she is a more balanced combatant, mounting 6 triple NAC/20 turrets on
each flank, supported by a pair of quad NL/55s intended to strengthen her anti-fighter array as well as giving her a
bit more reach.  The NACs allow Tyr to retain most of Buri's throw weight at only a moderate cost in range and
accuracy, whilst still out-reaching the NAC/30 mounts common on most vessels.

Tyr Class Heavy Cruiser
Mass: 980,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3084
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 32,308,302,000

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 20
Heat Sinks: 7440 (14880)
Structural Integrity: 150

Armor
    Nose: 530
    Fore Sides: 500/500
    Aft Sides: 500/500
    Aft: 500

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                48 Battle Armor Marines (1 Company)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 3 Doors
                Cargo: 25,662

Ammunition:
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20
  1,440 Tons NAC/20

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (90 m)
Escape Pods: 80
Life Boats: 80
Crew:  74 officers, 297 enlisted/non-rated, 120 bay personnel, 48 BA marines, 20 Passengers

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     Naval C3
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Easy to Maintain
    Docking Arms

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)

FL, FR, AL, AR
9 NAC/20 in 3 bays of 3 (900 Rnds)
8 NL/55 in 2 bays of 4

CL Ullr

Code: [Select]

The Ullr Class of Light Cruisers grew out of a design study for a large, fast cruiser, focusing on naval lasers and PPCs
to engage opposing vessels from outside the range of effective reply - as well as carrying sufficient thrust to enable
them to maintain that range.  Whilst the Heavy Cruiser design space was eventually given over to the Tyr class and
its focus on heavy armor and battleline support, designers recognized the value of a fast, tough, long-ranging light
cruiser to serve as a picket and patrol vessel for the navy, as well as providing the core of any light force squadrons.
 It carries the now-standard layered anti-aircraft arsenal typical of the Lyran naval Services.  This was questioned by
some officers as extravagant and overly expensive, given the ever smaller vessels it is fitted with, but the cost in
both mass and resources was low, particularly because the standard AAA package has evolved over the years into a
single set of 'plug and play' modules that slot into standard fittings on the ships that carry them.  Anti-ship
armament is light for a vessel of its size, but unlike her larger sisters, Ullr is not meant to involve herself in knock-
down fights with other capital ships.  The continued presence of lavish C&C facilities, including sensors,
communications, battlecomputers, and the exorbitantly expensive Mobile HPG was also questions, but eventually
justified given the ships role as squadron leaders and scouts.  As always on modern Lyran vessels, cargo is light and
lithium fusion batteries are standard, but it is the policy of the navy that it is cheaper in both c-bills and combat
power to carry supplies on dropships, and cheaper to have ships that can cover more space more quickly via their
LF-Batteries, especially given the lavish outlays of recharge stations being produced to multiply the mobility of
lithium-fusion ships.

Ullr Class Light Cruiser
Mass: 510,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3085
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 28,510,102,000

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 12
Heat Sinks: 4640 (9280)

Structural Integrity: 120

Armor
    Nose: 200
    Fore Sides: 220/220
    Aft Sides: 220/220
    Aft: 200

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 6 Doors
                20 Fighters
                10 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                48 Battle Armor Marines (1 Company)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 3 Doors
                Cargo: 14,766

Ammunition:
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20
 

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (90 m)
Escape Pods: 40
Life Boats: 40
Crew:  48 officers, 193 enlisted/non-rated, 120 bay personnel, 48 BA marines, 20 Passengers

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     Naval C3
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Easy to Maintain
    Docking Arms

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)

FL, FR, AL, AR
8 NL/55 in 2 bays of 4

FF Heimdaller

Code: [Select]

Though officially an FF, the Heimdaller would more properly be described as a Corvette, or perhaps a support ship. 
Blazingly fast, lightly armored (for a Lyran vessel) and almost unarmed by the standards of capital ships, the
Hiemdaller is a fast scout and raider.  With no capital weapons, and with the ELRMs and Light Gauss Rifles of the
'LCN Standard' AAA fit withdrawn to save mass, she presents only a limited threat to all but the lightest of hostile
warships.  Even so, a broadside of 40 Capacitor-Fed ERPPCs is sufficient to chew up fighter squadrons and
overwhelm most 'pocket' warships, but those are not her purpose - her purpose is her combination of speed,
sensors, and strategic mobility.  Though cargo carriage is light, her own small size and ability to potentially carry
twice her mass again in cargo-focused dropships allows her potentially unmatched endurance.  In such a profile, the
Heimdallr would jump into hostile systems outside of the standard points, leaving her cargo tonnage behind, hidden
in the darkness, while she conducts high speed recon, security, or raiding missions within the system.  Lacking the
LNCSS and Mobile HPG of the larger Lyran warships somewhat detracts from her mission in this regard, but looking
at the cost of those systems on vessels of such a small size, the budget analysts of the Commonwealth finally put
their feet down.

Heimdallr Class Frigate
Mass: 100,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3085
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 11,680,000,000

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 5
Maximum Thrust: 8
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Heat Sinks: 1680 (3360)

Structural Integrity: 90

Armor
    Nose: 50
    Fore Sides: 50/50
    Aft Sides: 50/50
    Aft: 50

Cargo
    Bay 1:  LBS, 3 Doors
                10 Fighters
                5 Small Craft
    Bay 2:  RBS, 3 Doors
                10 Fighters
                5 Small Craft
    Bay 3:  Nose, 1 Door
                16 Battle Armor Marines (1 Squad)
    Bay 4:  Aft, 2 Doors
                Cargo: 2,007 Tons

Ammunition:
    160 Tons AMS
 

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (50 m)
Escape Pods: 20
Life Boats: 20
Crew:  17 officers, 68 enlisted/non-rated, 60 bay personnel, 16 BA marines

Notes:
     Lithium-fusion battery system
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small)
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Quirks:
    Poor Targeting (Short)
    Easy to Maintain
    Docking Arms

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 AMS  (480 Rnds)


As production was being finalized, and cost analysis being conducted, the shipwrights of the LCN put together an unorthodox proposal for an 'unlimited', wartime battleship.  By removing the exorbitantly expensive drop-collars, Naval C3 Suite, and the mobile HPG, it was found that a larger version of the Buri with similar antiship firepower, but otherwise superior in every respect, could be produced for a cost similar to the (admitted expensive!) light cruisers.  Intended to go into serial production at the first crack in the naval treaty, they would supplant the existing navy with units that could do a Battleships job, and more, in the wall of battle, while saving the cost of dropcollars and dropships by meeting the dropship roles of carrying cargo, troops, fighter coverage, and the like inside the enlarged warship - reducing costs and unshackling the military offensive from slow, equisitely vulnerable jumpships and fragile dropships.  Carrying a full regiment of battlements, along with a regiment of heavy tanks and two regiments of light vehicles, along with the three regiments of battle armor that ride into combat in those vehicles, combat delivery provided by the two full regiments of small craft, able to carry the entire complement to ground in three sorties from orbit, and can carry a further 12 Kilotons of supplies down from orbit each trip, keeping field units supplied from the 150KT Cargo Bay of the Wotan.  If necessary, the two regiments of small craft bays can be filled by areofighter, raising the vessels complement to 300, but the full division of 180 aerospace fighters was deemed sufficient for almost all circumstances.

Accommodations are comfortable to the point that some would call them lavish, with even the lowest ranking soldier or mechanic bunking in second class crew quarters.  Though somewhat expensive in terms of space, this was considered a worthwhile sacrifice in the name of endurance and crew performance.

While the Wotan's capital battery is no better than that of her smaller cousin, the anti-fighter batteries were heavily supplemented, with a total of 80 Long Tom Cannon and Silver Bullet Gauss Rifles added to the existing 'Lyran Standard' AAA Array.  Not overlooked was the fact that these expanded PDS arrays also contributed significant anti-ship fire against any vessel trying to run under the Wotan's guns.

Proposals exist for producing networked command versions, with expanded passenger berthing and the NC3 and HPG capabilities reinstalled, though it is felt at this time that the near 50% increase in per-hull costs defeats the point of the Wotan proposal.

BB Wotan

Code: [Select]


Wotan Class Battleship
Mass: 2,400,000
Technology Base: Inner Sphere
Introduced: 3090
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: Ȼ 20,852,412,000

Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 9
KF Drive Integrity: 46
Heat Sinks: 11,680   (23,360)
Structural Integrity: 100

Armor
    Nose: 700
    Fore Sides: 865/865
    Aft Sides: 865/865
    Aft: 700

Cargo
    Bay 1:  FR, 8 Doors
                90 Fighters
                5000 Tons Cargo

    Bay 2:  FL, 8 Doors
                90 Fighters
                5,000 Tons Cargo

    Bay 3:  LBS, 6 Doors
               60 Small Craft
               108 Light Vehicles
               108 Heavy Vehicles
               24 Battle Armor Marines
               648 Battle Armor Troops
               5,000 Tons Cargo
                           
    Bay 4:  RBS, 6 Doors
               60 Small Craft
               108 Light Vehicles
               108 Battlemechs
               24 Battle Armor Marines
               648 Battle Armor Troops
               5,000 Tons Cargo

   Bay 5:  Aft Left, 2 Doors
              71,864 Tons Cargo

   Bay 6:  Aft Right, 2 Doors
              71,864 Tons Cargo

Ammunition:
    4000 Tons Screen Launcher
    8000 Tons Piranaha
    800 Tons AMS
    800 Tons LGR
    800 Tons ELRM/20
    800 Tons SB Gauss Rifle
    800 Tons Long Tom Cannon

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 3 (200 m)
Escape Pods: 1000
Life Boats: 1000
Crew:  161 officers, 643 enlisted/non-rated, 2388 bay personnel, 48 BA marines, 2,592 Troops

Notes:
     Lithium-Fusion Battery
     Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
     All Personnel in at least 2nd Class Quarters, all Officers in 1st Class Quarters

Weapons:                                     
Arc                                 
Nose, AFT, LBS, RBS:
20 Pirana Sub-Capital Missile (200 Rnds)
20 ER PPC (Capacitor Equipped)
20 ELRM/20 (800 Rnds)
20 Long Tom Cannon (1,000 Rnds)
20 LGR  (3,200 Rnds)
20 SB Gauss Rifle (1,600 Rnds)
20 AMS  (2,400 Rnds)
10 Screen Launchers (100 Rnds)


FL, FR, AL, AR
20 HNPPC in 5 bays of 4


Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 24 January 2020, 15:25:06

With 6 sets of designs, I though it would be interesting to compare them.   

Doing this in a way which is concise and meaningful is delicate. 

My favored approach compares the geometric mean (= square root) of the armor and damage to form a number which measures the ability to survive a slugging contest.  This number is additive: you can get a fair estimate of which side will win a slugging contest battle by adding up this number for each side. 

Of course there are many caveats:
Preferred direction: Warships almost always have a preferred direction, often Broadside, but sometimes Nose.  This can be dealt with by computing the number for each possible preferred direction while taking into account overlapping arcs, hit tables, and structural integrity, then taking the maximum.  The Broadside is typically a superior preferred direction due to a better critical table, more arcs, and a slightly higher to-hit number.  The Aft is the worst preferred direction.
Average direction: Warships don't always get to choose their preferred facing, particularly in close combat.  To deal with this we can compute the average.
Thrust: Thrust has an enormous effect on the ability to either hold or close range as preferred.
Range: Weapons with more range are generally more usable.  Taking 52 hexes as a baseline, we can compute the average damage out to 52 hexes.  In other words, an ER large laser does .8*19/52 average damage over the range.
Max Range: The maximum range of weapons can have a huge tactical effect when the faster ship has greater range and otherwise is relatively meaningless.
Battle Armor: Boarding parties are an underhanded tactic that can be quite effective.  Having marines on board greatly helps against this.  Of course, auxilliary craft can carry more marines as well.
Missile: Many ships are effectively immune to missiles via massed AMS fire.  This can be taken into account by discounting missile-based weapons and noting which warships are missile immune.  Battle damage and auxiliaries can change this significantly.   All other ships are missile resistant in that a sufficient number of them stacked together creates missile immunity.
Naval C3: Naval C3 can have a dramatic effect on the chance of hitting at long or extreme range. 
Screen Launcher: Screen Launchers provide tactical flexibility to close with long-ranged opponents while avoiding fire or to block off one opponent while concentrating fire on another.
Carrier: Carrier designs provide very significant firepower through their fighter complement rather than their weapons.
Kinetic: Warships with more than half kinetic damage have a substantial advantage in high speed engagements.
HPG: Ships with an HPGs can greatly shorten command loops affecting strategic scale operations.
S/L NCSS: Ships with a Large or Small Naval Commscanner Suite have improved detection abilities which provide extra warning or the option to decline combat.

Essentially everyone mounts maximum collars, smallcraft, and fighters while using Lithium Fusion batteries.  The numbers in parens are taking into account only capital scale weapons.

Amongst the minor powers, the Canopians use the Broadside arc and otherwise look like:

	Canopus Cruiser	Amazon Carrier	Bellona Light Cruiser	Artemis Destroyer	Vixen Corvette
Chosen Arc	264(261)	163(160)	232(232)	198(195)	111(108)
Average Arc	195(192)	146(143)	168(167)	158(155)	76(73)
Cost (B)	19.6	18.8	19	18.4	12
Count	4	2	4	4	6
Tonnage	720K	600K	600K	480K	200K
Thrust	3/5	3/5	4/6	4/6	4/6
Max Range	52	52	52	52	44
		Carrier

The total cost warships is 338B.

And for the TCN has all ships with Screen Launchers, Naval C3, no dropship collars, and an LNCSS, otherwise it looks like:

	Anvil "Pocket Battleship"	Crown Carrier	Hammer Raider/Destroyer
Chosen Arc	842(752) Nose	191(83) Broadside	170(75) Broadside
Average Arc	537(251)	150(61)	134(55)
Cost (B)	14.5	10.2	8.9
Count	10	2	8
Tonnage	735K	425K	225K
Thrust	3/5	5/8	5/8
Max Range	56	56	56
Battle Armor	100	48	48
		Missile Immune	Missile Immune
	Kinetic	Carrier

The total cost of warships is 237B.

For the Outworlds Alliance, all designs are Broadside and Kinetic and otherwise:

	Cerberus Carrier	Elias Heavy Cruiser	Alpheratz Destroyer	Pulsar Corvette
Chosen Arc	257(254)	360(357)	160(158)	125(123)
Average Arc	208(205)	279(276)	108(105)	97(96)
Cost (B)	21.1	21.7	19	12.7
Count	2	2	4	12
Tonnage	960K	960K	510K	320K
Thrust	3/5	3/5	4/6	4/6
Max Range	44	48	52	44
Marines	128	64	64	64
	LNCSS, Carrier	LNCSS	LNCSS	SNCSS

The total cost is 314B.

Amongst the major powers, the LCN has all ships Missile Immune and prefer the Broadside arc, otherwise:

	Buri Battleship	Tyr Heavy Cruiser	Ullr Light Cruiser	Heimdaller Frigate
Chosen Arc	1142(1122)	721(701)	210(173)	61(0)
Average Arc	800(780)	567(544)	174(132)	60(0)
Cost (B)	41.9	32.3	28.5	11.7
Count	6	12	12	30
Tonnage	1550K	900K	510K	100K
Thrust	3/5	3/5	4/6	5/8
Max Range	52	52	52	23
Battle Armor	96	48	48	16
	Naval C3 HPG LNCSS	Naval C3 HPG LNCSS	Naval C3 HPG LNCSS	SNCSS
		Kinetic

The total cost of warships is 1332B.

For the DCN all ships have LNCSS, prefer the Broadside arc, and use Naval C3.  Otherwise

	Nagato Battleship	Atago Heavy Cruiser	Fubuki Destroyer
Preferred Arc	670 (670)	552 (552)	168 (165)
Average Arc	538(538)	429(429)	138(134)
Cost (B)	30.4	23.2	14.7
Count	5	15	30
Tonnage	1200K	900K	350K
Thrust	3/5	3/5	3/5
Max Range	52	52	48
Marines	100	100	50
		Screen Launchers, Kinetic	Screen Launchers

The total cost is 941B.

For the FedCom, every warship is Broadside and has Screen Launchers and otherwise:

	Fox II	Durendal Destroyer/Escort	Avalon II Cruiser	Avalon III Carrier	Mjolnir II Battleship
Chosen Arc	147 (139)	172 (166)	297 (290)	297 (290)	574 (561)
Average Arc	118 (109)	136 (129)	243 (236)	243 (236)	457 (449)
Cost (B)	12.2	13.2	20	20	28.4
Count	30	8	6	8	6
Tonnage	240K	430K	770K	770K	1350K
Thrust	3/5	4/6	4/6	4/6	4/6
Max Range	48	52	48	48	52
Battle Armor	28 Marines	16	64	64	64+336 Marines
	Kinetic	Kinetic	Kinetic	Carrier	Kinetic

The total cost is 922B.

The SLDF has all ships Missile Immune with an LNCSS and otherwise:

	Warspite Battleship	Vanguard Cruiser	Speedy Destroyer	Resolute Frigate	Glorious Carrier	Squirrel Corvette
Chosen Arc	608(602) Broadside	385(382) Broadside	111(87) Broadside	348(345) Broadside	158(152) Broadside	62(53) Nose/Aft
Average Arc	469(462)	299(295)	104(65)	271(268)	125(117)	57(35)
Cost (B)	31	22.4	9.4	16.2	16.1	14.8
Count	20	8	40	8	10	8
Tonnage	1500K	750K	500K	500K	500K	150K
Thrust	2/3	4/6	6/9	3/5	3/5	6/9
Max Range	52	52	48	52	36	48
Battle Armor	20	12	16	12	12	20
	HPG	HPG	Screen Launchers, no dropships	HPG	Carrier HPG	HPG

The total cost of warships is 1584.2B? (Not sure I have counts right.)

Looking through, the LCN Buri stands out as clearly the highest scoring ship. 

The Canopians have the more 'primitive' ships due to lack of advanced electronics. Despite this, the Artemis Destroyer scores highest in the 500- category.

The SLDF has both the slowest and fastest designs.

The TCN's Anvil scores highest in the 1000K-500K category although at the cost of missile immunity and a Nose instead of Broadside arc.

Both the DCN and LCN have eschewed carriers.

(edited to include DCN and capital only weapons + added FedCom)

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Smegish on 24 January 2020, 17:09:46

And now I'm gonna make you redo that table to add my ships :P

Finally getting around to this, didn't do it before because I kept having writers block for the fluff, but you'll at least get stats.

To simplify production and maintenance, and to help keep per-unit costs down, the DCA fleet standardized as much as possible, with the entire fleet having LF Batteries; a Large NCSS; Naval C3; Lamellor Ferro-Carbide armour and the same calibre guns of each type (NPPCs, NACs and NLs). AMS is also standard, but it was decided to leave the job of Anti-ASF to the Fubuki DDs as well as the fleets ASF and Dropship complement, thus no standard-scale guns are mounted on the Atago or Nagato.

The standardization of the fleets guns went as far as using the same 3-gun turrets on every ship, with the only difference between a Fubuki's NL turret and a Nagato's NL turret being the outer layer of armour. This once again aids construction and maintenance, allowing repair yards to just remove a damaged turret and install a new one from their supply of spares, without having to worry about which ship it was made for.

Nagato-class Battleship

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Nagato
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $30,416,973,604.00
Magazine Cost: $14,400,000.00
BV2: 172,097

Mass: 1,200,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
15 Naval AC 20
30 Naval PPC Heavy
24 Naval Laser 45
42 AMS (IS)


Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Nagato
Mass: 1,200,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 216,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 3,000.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (25 Integrity) 555,000.00
Jump Sail: (6 Integrity) 90.00
Structural Integrity: 140 168,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 4686(9372) Double 3,984.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 3444 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 3,360.00
Fore: 574
Fore-Left/Right: 574/574
Aft-Left/Right: 574/574
Aft: 574

Dropship Capacity: 6 6,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 30 210.00
Life Boats: 30 210.00

Crew And Passengers:
62 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 620.00
223 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 1,561.00
81 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 567.00
150 Bay Personnel 0.00
20 1st Class Passengers 200.00
60 2nd Class Passengers 420.00
100 Steerage Marines 500.00

Bay #1 - Fighters (60) - 5 Doors
Bay #2 - Small Craft (6) - 1 Door
Bay #3 - Cargo (62,597 Tons) - 2 Doors

Large NCSS
Naval C3
Naval AC 20 Ammo (600 Rounds/40 per gun)
AMS Ammo (10 tons per gun)

Code: [Select]

Nose:
2x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Fore Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Broadside:
2x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret

Aft Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Aft:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat
Atago-class Heavy Cruiser

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Atago
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $23,164,381,604.00
Magazine Cost: $21,360,000.00
BV2: 128,956

Mass: 900,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
21 Naval AC 20
33 Naval Laser 45
12 Naval PPC Heavy
6 Screen Launcher
42 AMS (IS)

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Atago
Mass: 900,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 162,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 2,250.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (19 Integrity) 416,250.00
Jump Sail: (5 Integrity) 75.00
Structural Integrity: 130 117,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 3186(6372) Double 2,572.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 2418 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 2,340.00
Fore: 402
Fore-Left/Right: 404/404
Aft-Left/Right: 404/404
Aft: 400

Dropship Capacity: 4 4,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 30 210.00
Life Boats: 30 210.00

Crew And Passengers:
51 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 510.00
174 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 1,218.00
78 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 546.00
140 Bay Personnel 0.00
20 1st Class Passengers 200.00
60 2nd Class Passengers 420.00
100 Steerage Marines 500.00

Bay #1 - Fighters (40) - 4 Doors
Bay #2 - Small Craft (6) - 1 Door
Bay #3 - Cargo (47337 Tons) - 2 Doors

Large NCSS
Naval C3
Naval AC/20 Ammo (840 Rounds/40 per gun)
AMS Ammo (10 Tons per gun)
Screen Launcher Ammo (120 Rounds/20 per gun)

Code: [Select]

Nose:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
2x1 Screen launchers - 3 Dmg - 10 Heat
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Fore Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Broadside:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
2x1 Screen Launchers - 3 Dmg - 10 Heat

Aft Left/Right:
1x3 Heavy NPPC - 45 Dmg/turret - 675 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval AC/20 - 60 Dmg/turret - 180 Heat/turret
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat

Aft:
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
7 AMS - 21 Std Dmg - 7 Heat
Fubuki-class Destroyer

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Fubuki
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $14,657,139,604.00
Magazine Cost: $18,100,000.00
BV2: 52,087

Mass: 350,000
K-F Drive System: Compact with L-F Battery
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-Carbide
Armament:
9 Screen Launcher
45 Naval Laser 45
54 LRM 20 (IS)
42 AMS (IS)
54 Laser Large Pulse (IS)
8 Capital Launcher Killer Whale

Code: [Select]

Class/Model/Name: Fubuki
Mass: 350,000

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 63,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 875.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact with L-F Battery (9 Integrity) 161,875.00
Jump Sail: (4 Integrity) 48.00
Structural Integrity: 80 28,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 2161(4322) Double 1,762.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12500 points 5,100.00
Fire Control Computers: 6,155.20
Armor: 608 pts Lamellor Ferro-Carbide 560.00
Fore: 100
Fore-Left/Right: 102/102
Aft-Left/Right: 102/102
Aft: 100

Dropship Capacity: 2 2,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 20 140.00
Life Boats: 20 140.00

Crew And Passengers:
36 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 360.00
79 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 553.00
93 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 651.00
70 Bay Personnel 0.00
1st Class Passengers 0.00
2nd Class Passengers 0.00
50 Steerage Marines 250.00

Bay #1 - Fighters (20) - 4 Doors
Bay #2 - Small Craft (6) - 1 Door
Bay #3 - Cargo (19590 Tons) - 1 Door

Large NCSS
Naval C3
Killer Whale Ammo (80 Missiles)
Screen Launcher Ammo (30 Per Gun)
LRM 20 Ammo (10 Tons per Gun)
AMS Ammo (10 Tons per Gun)

Code: [Select]

Nose:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x1 Screen Launcher - 3 Dmg/gun - 10 Heat/gun
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat

Fore Left/Right:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat

Broadside:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x1 Screen Launcher - 3 Dmg/gun - 10 Heat/gun
4x1 Killer Whale Launchers - 4 Dmg/tube - 20 Heat/tube

Aft Left/Right:
2x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat

Aft:
1x3 Naval Laser/45 - 13.5 Dmg/turret - 210 Heat/turret
3x3 LRM 20 - 6 Dmg/turret - 18 Heat/turret
3x3 Large Pulse Laser - 2.7 Dmg/turret - 30 Heat/turret
1x7 AMS - 21 PD Dmg - 7 Heat

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 24 January 2020, 20:05:21

Updated.  What are the aft turrets of the Atago and Nagato?  It's a little ambiguous.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 24 January 2020, 20:28:32

I think he's breaking those into "bays" so instead of a 9xLRM single bay, its 3 Bays of Triple LRMs.

Or at least that is how I'm reading it.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 24 January 2020, 20:36:45

Lagrange - consider including SI, as it correlates so strongly with resilience?

Also, Im wondering if firepower figures are being inflated some by the massive AAA arrays that (sadly) in RAW make such brutal anti-ship armament at close range, for their tonnage.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 24 January 2020, 20:39:27

Maybe a good idea to break that down into Capital & Standard scale brackets for better comparison.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Daryk on 24 January 2020, 20:41:14

Don't forget fire control tonnage... that acts as something of a brake on non-capital weapons...

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Smegish on 24 January 2020, 20:41:40

Quote from: Lagrange on 24 January 2020, 20:05:21

Updated.  What are the aft turrets of the Atago and Nagato?  It's a little ambiguous.

Whoops, stuffed that up a bit. fixed now

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 24 January 2020, 21:47:10

Quote from: Daryk on 24 January 2020, 20:41:14

Don't forget fire control tonnage... that acts as something of a brake on non-capital weapons...

Sadly, it mostly serves as a break on mixing capital and non-capital armaments.  You can get utterly obscene counts of standard scale weaponry, and absorb the FC mass, because standard scale weapons are so damage efficient compared to capital weapons (which are terrible in that regard)

This lead to some house ruling discussions in the Warship Race last year, which are outside our scope here, but were aimed at (drastically) decreasing the value of standard scale weapons against capital scale armor.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 24 January 2020, 23:47:59

For Smegish, I updated the DCN breakdowns and fixed an error in my Fubuki calculations.

For marcussmythe, SI is included.  The precise way it should be included is a little bit ambiguous.  Optimistically, you could think of it as adding lots of armor to each facing, but that isn't quite right since it's a central pool and you have many more criticals once you start taking SI damage.  Instead I treated 2*SI as added to the armor _after_ grossing up the armor according to the hit table.  So, a warship with no armor would be taken as having 2*SI armor, for example.

W.r.t. standard scale weapons balance, the TCN designs use them heavily.  They are potent, but not as badly out of place as you might expect given damage/weight, at least according to the scoring rubric used here.   Partly, this is because of the significant range discount that standard weapons suffer.   Partly also the FC tonnage adds up quickly when using Naval C3.  Given the hefty cost of the smallest warship, it seems ok balancewise if they can take advantage of standard scale weapons, as per the Hammer design.  The role of standard weapons falls off significantly once you get above 500K tons.  Altogether, standard weapons on warships aren't terrible for balance in my opinion. 

The place where standard scale weapons fall apart balancewise is on ASF.  If a light carrier (<500K tons is easy) launches 200 heavy ASF each of which can inflict 5 capital damage/round, you get a piranha death swarm that can rapidly kill pretty much any warship regardless of size.  Even when you stick serious AAA weapons on a warship, you really can't build a warship that's sufficiently capable of resisting the ASF swarm.  The only defenses are being fast enough to avoid the heavy ASF (5/8 maybe, 6/9 probably, 7/11 definitely), generating your own piranha death swarm, or if they happen to get very close and you have an excessive number of screen launchers you can AoE them. 

The other absurdity here is just the damage scaling from a realism perspective.  Generally, the amount of damage that a weapon does should at least scale with the weapon.  When that doesn't happen, the weapon isn't even built.  I personally prefer the house rules discussed here (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63746.0) since they seem both more realistic and more balanced.

For Hellraiser: W.r.t. scoring rubrics, trading off correctness of a scoring approach vs. the complexity is rather delicate as information must be lost in making a simplification.  Is the standard vs. capital scale important enough to merit the complexification?  Probably not in warship/warship combat, but plausibly yes in Warship/ASF combat.   Also, in Warship/ASF combat, the Warship missiles are not neglectable as I did here.   Anyways, if you want to take a stab at it, feel free to use the spreadsheet as a starting place.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 25 January 2020, 15:45:09

1.)  If I had the time, an ‘expected damage by range’ chart for each weapon, worked into the ship construction spreadsheet, and with basic assumptions selectable (bracketing?  Evasive?  Etc.) would be very useful.

2.)  GDI to heck, looking at that naval rebalancing thread and then the old warship race thread has me missing that thing.  That was too much fun.  If I ever run out of other hobbies I may try to pick back up with what Alsadius did, and incorporate the lessons learned.  He already did most of the hardest work.  Of course, like the rest of us, I -MOST- wish someone -ELSE- would.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Daryk on 25 January 2020, 17:10:58

If the Solaris Skunk Werks guys ever get time for WarShips, I hope they incorporate that into the first version...

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 25 January 2020, 20:29:33

I realized doing capital-only was relatively easy, so I updated with numbers in brackets using capital only armor.  The DCN designs are the least impacted while several lighter designs end up severely crimped when discounting standard weapons (of course, if those were the rules then different designs would have been proposed...).

I also revisited my calculations around standard weapons, and I'm going to have to concur that they are unbalanced even on warships.  For example, a 5/8 1M ton ship with 150SI, Naval C3, and a Lithium Fusion battery using IS ER PPC+capacitors could close to point blank range against the vast majority of warships using screen launchers for cover and then inflict ~1400 capital damage.  That's plausibly rather unbalanced.

Yeah, the warship design challenge was quite a bit fun  :)

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 26 January 2020, 04:43:57

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 12 November 2019, 05:13:08

The treaty further breaks down WarShips into the broad categories of battleships, massing no more than 1,500,000 tons; cruisers, massing no more than 1,000,000 tons, and lesser vessels, massing no more than 500,000 tons. An additional subcategory of carrier warships is also included.

Warships have additional restrictions on their supporting units based on their classification. Battleships may not mount more than six docking collar, nor have hangar space for more than sixty aerofighters and thirty small craft. Cruisers may not mount more than four docking collars, nor may they have hangar space for more than forty aerofighters or twenty small craft. Lesser vessels are limited to two docking collars, twenty fighters, and ten small craft.

A carrier warship has the same docking collar limitation as its size category, however it may carry up to 120 aerospace fighters and thirty small craft.

In addition, all warships, dropships, and jumpships of all types are limited to a maximum battery of ten capital or subcapital missile launchers, with no more than ten missiles in the ready magazine per launcher.

WarShips currently in service with signatory powers that violate these treaty restrictions receive a five year grace period, at the end of which they must either be brought to compliance through modification or removed from service (the collar limitation will get lots of guys, but the flight deck limitation will make a Thera cry).

*Standard Jumpships are regulated by the treaty only by setting the maxiumum mass of any future designs at 300,000 tons. Any standard jumpships larger than this currently in service may be retained, and any such ships currently under construction at the time of the treaty's ratification may be completed.



Treaty limitations on fleet size:

Each major power may operate up to sixty total warships (as defined above), massing no more than 30,000,000 tons in total. In addition, each major power may field no more than ten battleship and thirty cruiser class ships, and they are entitled to six carrier class vessels from among this total.

Minor powers may operate a fleet of up to twenty total warships, massing a total of ten million tons, of which half may be cruiser class vessels and two may be carriers.

As many know the FedCom pushed heavily into mass production of just a few different models unlike their Kurita/Marik neighbors. 
The Fox was basically a "test" design to get their feet wet that would support the Army as an armed transport.  With the small #s of Warships able to be created initially the FC pushed for very durable models able to "do everything" & disregarded many of the standards that older SLDF era ships were constructed with.
Logistics were a huge problem in creating any of the FC warships & weapons were a mixed batch of types on every design.  The FWL & DC were both creating notably larger craft than the FC had on the drawing boards.  Changes were made to design plans for the Avalon & Mjolnir Class "Light" Cruisers.  The Avalon was shifted to be a Missile Cruiser with massive fuel tanks.  Designers hopped that Armor Piercing Warheads & a flotilla of Fighters & Assault Dropships would make it a match for larger foreign power ships.   Meanwhile the Mjolnir went through several revisions to increase its firepower & size till it became the largest ship produced by any IS nation.  However, it was a logistical nightmare to create or arm & designers failed to utilize Lithium Fusion batteries or sufficient cargo holds to support an invasion fleet.  The Durendal class Heavy Destroyer that was still in the design stage was shelved in order to devote all resources on the major changes in the 2 Cruisers.


The New SLDF Naval Treaty proved to be very painful for the FC as not a single design matched the new standards.  Construction was halted on all warships while designers were called into address the issue of making the FC Navy compliant with the new standards the Star League had put forth.
Plans for the Durendal were dusted off & significant changes made to create a fully new design crafted from scratch to meet treaty standards.  The Destroyer lost nearly a 1/3 of its proposed original mass which was comparable to the early Davion I & II model destroyers that the Fed Suns used 3 centuries earlier.  This new vessel would be squarely in the "Escort Destroyer" category.  Meanwhile an additional Combat Support Jumpship was also created to allow for LFB mobile fleets of dropships to accompany every Warship.

   New plans for the Fox, Avalon, & Mjolnir class vessels were drawn up.  Requirements were that the vessels would feature the same basic structure of the originals but would have a different outer shell of armor & weaponry as well as renovated cargo & crew sections.  Special emphasis was placed on creating vessels that were proper "ships of the line" able to conduct long ranged bracket fire & massed orbital fire support missions in a manner similar to the original tactics of the SLDF Navy as well as serving as command ships for Army groups & Naval flotillas.  Logistics for weaponry were streamlined to focus weaponry into a smaller # of weapon bays.  Weapons bay layouts were designed to be similar on all warships.  The Avalon underwent a 2nd series of design changes to create a Block-III variant Cruiser-Carrier to fit into treaty regulations & counter the carriers of enemy fleets.

   Using these new plans the FC Navy launched the FCNRCP  (Federated Commonwealth Naval Refit Compliance Program) which required all Block-I vessels to be refitted over a 15 year timeline to Block II standards.  Refitting was to be done at Alarion, New Syrtis, & Galax at a limited # of warship docks while new construction of newly built Block-II vessels was to start up at all other docks & shipyards. 

   Today the FC Navy boasts a full Treaty compliment of 60 Warships totaling 30 million tons, the maximum # & weight allowed by Treaty Limits.
Over half of the FC Navy is made up of the new Fox corvettes, & one quarter of those are assigned directly to Army Combat Organizations to support any offensive operation that group is assigned.  The remainder of the corvettes are organized into boarder fleet flotillas.
These boarder flotillas usually consist of a single Fox-II corvette & a pair of Chariot class Jumpships.  Attached to these ships are 6 or more Dropships per fleet & up to a several wings of Aerofighters.  While there is no fixed standard of dropships assigned to each flotilla most can call on a mix of Carrier, Assault, Marine, & Cargo ships.  A typical fleet usually encompasses a Vengeance, Overlord-A3, Mule, Avenger, Claymore, & Aurora among the ships assigned to it.  Some have a military Tug to move damaged/captured dropships.  These groups answer to March command & usually patrol along boarder regions or between major military or factory worlds.

Standard FC Naval doctrine has its remaining capital warships also being assigned Chariot jumpships to support a full dropship flotilla, but also has all major capital ships operating in pairs to support larger operations.  Each Avalon cruiser is paired up with a Durendal escort & with their quartet of Chariots can provide enough naval support for a full system invasion force.  These groups are typically stationed at major factory worlds but are able to move out in support of the army whenever needed.  Finally 6 pairs of the most powerful ships in the fleet call the original 6 March Capitals as their home ports ensuring that no invasion force will ever claim aerospace superiority over a regional command world.





FCN Deployment:  Mjolnir-II & Avalon-III
New Avalon:  Surtr + Ian Davion
New Syrtis:  Ymir + Marie Davion
Robinson:  Jörmungandr + Peter Davion
Skye:  Fylgia + Margaret Aten
Tamar:  Fenrir + Alistair Marsden
Tharkad:  Yggdrasil + Arthur Luvon



FCN Deployment:  Avalon-II & Durendal
Alarion:  Melissa Davion + Honor's Pact
Coventry:  Simon Davion + Compassion's Bond
Dieron:  Lucien Davion + Oath of Honesty
Donegal:  Nondi Steiner + Vow of Courage
Kathil:  Andrew Davion + Excellence in Service
New Earth:  Alexander Davion + Alliance of Respect
Sarna:  Hanse Davion + Brotherhood of Loyalty
Quentin:  Robert Davion + Tenacious Union

Code: [Select]

Fox-II
Mass: 240,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 240,000
Battle Value: 44,071
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 12,237,937,360 C-bills
Fuel: 5,920 tons (29,600)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 7
Heat Sinks: 838 (1676)
Structural Integrity: 100
Armor
     Nose: 85
     Fore Sides: 81/81
     Aft Sides: 81/81
     Aft: 81
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Cargo (12000.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 3: Small Craft (6) 2 Doors
Bay 4: Cargo (10317.0 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 1 (112 m)
Escape Pods: 10
Life Boats: 20
Crew: 23 officers, 72 enlisted/non-rated, 40 gunners, 66 bay personnel, 28 marines
Ammunition: 18 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (900 tons), 2,208 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (184 tons), 18 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (540 tons), 24 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (960 tons), 200 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (80 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 430 tons of ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (113 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6624 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (284 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20), NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots) 120 40(400) 40(400) 40(400) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser, 6 ER Medium Laser 114 9(86) 9(86) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6624 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (544 Heat)
3 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (12 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (9 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (9 shots) 60 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) AR10
5 Naval Laser 45 350 23(225) 23(225) 23(225) 23(225) Capital Laser
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (113 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6624 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser

Code: [Select]

Chariot Jumpship
Mass: 300,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 300,000
Battle Value: 3,848
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 1,835,445,250 C-bills
Fuel: 300 tons (750)
Safe Thrust: 0
Maximum Thrust: 0
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Heat Sinks: 129
Structural Integrity: 1
Armor
     Nose: 16
     Fore Sides: 17/17
     Aft Sides: 17/17
     Aft: 15
Cargo
Bay 1: Small Craft (4) 2 Doors
Bay 2: Cargo (747.0 tons) 2 Doors
Dropship Capacity: 3
Grav Decks: 1 (45 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 6
Crew: 5 officers, 17 enlisted/non-rated, 8 gunners, 20 bay personnel, 4 BA marines
Ammunition: 720 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (60 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 165 tons of improved ferro-aluminum armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
ARS/ALS (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser
Aft (40 Heat)
5 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (1440 shots) 5 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Medium Laser 35 4(35) 4(35) 0(0) 0(0) Laser

Code: [Select]

Durendal class Destroyer/Escort
Mass: 430,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 430,000
Battle Value: 61,433
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 13,209,365,400 C-bills
Fuel: 4,300 tons (10,750)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 10
Heat Sinks: 1,999
Structural Integrity: 80
Armor
     Nose: 82
     Fore Sides: 101/101
     Aft Sides: 101/101
     Aft: 72
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Small Craft (10) 4 Doors
Bay 3: Cargo (21500.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 4: Cargo (21502.5 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (95 m, 95 m)
Escape Pods: 20
Life Boats: 20
Crew: 30 officers, 105 enlisted/non-rated, 45 gunners, 86 bay personnel, 84 marines, 16 BA marines
Ammunition: 18 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (900 tons), 2,160 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (4 tons), 18 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (540 tons), 24 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (960 tons), 300 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (120 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 637.5 tons of ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (198 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval Laser 55 85 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) Capital Laser
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (294 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20), NAC/20 Ammo (150 shots) 180 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 0(0) Capital AC
2 ER Large Laser, 8 ER Medium Laser 64 6(56) 6(56) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (619 Heat)
3 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (12 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (9 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (9 shots) 60 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) 6(60) AR10
5 Naval Laser 55 425 28(275) 28(275) 28(275) 28(275) Capital Laser
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (198 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval Laser 55 85 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) 6(55) Capital Laser
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser

Code: [Select]

Avalon-II Cruiser
Mass: 770,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 770,000
Battle Value: 100,702
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 20,023,582,000 C-bills
Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 16
Heat Sinks: 1652 (3304)
Structural Integrity: 120
Armor
     Nose: 345
     Fore Sides: 310/310
     Aft Sides: 302/302
     Aft: 291
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Small Craft (18) 2 Doors
Bay 3: Fighter (18) 6 Doors
Bay 4: Cargo (30800.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 5: Cargo (22301.0 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (145 m, 210 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew: 50 officers, 150 enlisted/non-rated, 50 gunners, 162 bay personnel, 20 passengers, 112 marines, 64 BA marines
Ammunition: 30 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (1,500 tons), 2,160 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (180 tons), 30 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (900 tons), 40 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (1,600 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons), 720 rounds of LRM 20 Artemis-capable ammunition (120 tons), 200 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (160 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 1,788 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (370 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30), NAC/30 Ammo (100 shots) 200 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (1,081 Heat)
5 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (20 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (15 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (15 shots) 100 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) AR10
7 Naval PPC (Medium) 945 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) Capital PPC
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
Aft (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser

Code: [Select]

Avalon-III Carrier
Mass: 770,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 770,000
Battle Value: 100,702
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-F
Cost: 20,028,502,000 C-bills
Fuel: 10,000 tons (25,000)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 16
Heat Sinks: 1652 (3304)
Structural Integrity: 120
Armor
     Nose: 345
     Fore Sides: 310/310
     Aft Sides: 302/302
     Aft: 291
Cargo
Bay 1: Fighter (54) 6 Doors
Bay 2: Fighter (54) 6 Doors
Bay 3: Small Craft (36) 2 Doors
Bay 4: Cargo (23100.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 5: Cargo (15215.0 tons) 1 Door
Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (145 m, 210 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew: 50 officers, 150 enlisted/non-rated, 50 gunners, 396 bay personnel, 20 passengers, 64 BA marines
Ammunition: 30 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (1,500 tons), 2,160 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (180 tons), 30 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (900 tons), 40 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (1,600 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons), 720 rounds of LRM 20 Artemis-capable ammunition (120 tons), 200 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (160 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 1,788 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (370 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30), NAC/30 Ammo (100 shots) 200 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (93 Heat)
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
2 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 34 3(26) 3(26) 2(16) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (1,081 Heat)
5 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 White Shark Ammo (20 shots), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (15 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (15 shots) 100 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) AR10
7 Naval PPC (Medium) 945 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) 63(630) Capital PPC
6 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (1080 shots) 36 7(72) 7(72) 7(72) 0(0) LRM
Aft (248 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Medium) 135 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) 9(90) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser

Code: [Select]

Mjolnir-II Battleship
Mass: 1,350,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3085
Mass: 1,350,000
Battle Value: 203,978
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-X
Cost: 28,397,594,408 C-bills
Fuel: 2,376 tons (5,940)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 6
KF Drive Integrity: 27
Heat Sinks: 2849 (5698)
Structural Integrity: 140
Armor
     Nose: 527
     Fore Sides: 504/504
     Aft Sides: 501/501
     Aft: 501
Cargo
Bay 1: Cargo (13500.0 tons) 1 Door
Bay 2: Cargo (20830.5 tons) 1 Door
Bay 3: Fighter (18) 4 Doors
Bay 4: Fighter (18) 4 Doors
Bay 5: Fighter (18) 4 Doors
Bay 6: Small Craft (18) 2 Doors
Bay 7: Small Craft (18) 2 Doors
Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 1 (135 m)
Escape Pods: 75
Life Boats: 60
Crew: 65 officers, 250 enlisted/non-rated, 75 gunners, 288 bay personnel, 336 marines, 64 BA marines
Ammunition: 400 rounds of Gauss Rifle [IS] ammunition (50 tons), 400 rounds of NAC/10 ammunition (80 tons), 60 rounds of AR10 Killer Whale ammunition (3,000 tons), 4,104 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (342 tons), 200 rounds of Medium N-Gauss ammunition (80 tons), 60 rounds of AR10 Barracuda ammunition (1,800 tons), 80 rounds of AR10 White Shark ammunition (3,200 tons), 400 rounds of NAC/35 ammunition (400 tons), 40 rounds of Screen Launcher ammunition (400 tons), 720 rounds of LRM 20 Artemis-capable ammunition (120 tons)
Notes: Equipped with lithium-fusion battery system and 3,692.5 tons of ferro-carbide armor.
Weapons: Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat) Heat SRV MRV LRV ERV Class
Nose (338 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Heavy) 225 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
FRS/FLS (1,514 Heat)
4 Naval PPC (Heavy) 900 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35), NAC/35 Ammo (100 shots) 240 70(700) 70(700) 0(0) 0(0) Capital AC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35), NAC/35 Ammo (100 shots) 240 70(700) 70(700) 0(0) 0(0) Capital AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (329 Heat)
18 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (18144 shots) 18 5(54) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
12 LRM 20+Artemis IV, LRM 20 Artemis-capable Ammo (2160 shots) 72 14(144) 14(144) 14(144) 0(0) LRM
5 Gauss Rifle, Gauss Rifle Ammo [IS] (1600 shots) 5 8(75) 8(75) 8(75) 0(0) AC
7 ER Large Laser 84 6(56) 6(56) 6(56) 0(0) Laser
15 Large Pulse Laser 150 14(135) 14(135) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (1,200 Heat)
5 Capital Missile Launcher (AR10 Launcher), AR10 Killer Whale Ammo (30 shots), AR10 White Shark Ammo (40 shots), AR10 Barracuda Ammo (30 shots) 100 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) 10(100) AR10
4 Naval PPC (Heavy) 900 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600) Capital PPC
2 Naval Gauss (Medium), Medium N-Gauss Ammo (100 shots) 30 50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500) Capital Gauss
4 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10), NAC/10 Ammo (200 shots) 120 40(400) 40(400) 40(400) 0(0) Capital AC
5 Large Pulse Laser 50 5(45) 5(45) 0(0) 0(0) Pulse Laser
Aft (338 Heat)
1 Screen Launcher, Screen Launcher Ammo (20 shots) 10 2(15) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) Screen Launcher
1 Naval PPC (Heavy) 225 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) 15(150) Capital PPC
9 Anti-Missile System, Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (6480 shots) 9 3(27) 0(0) 0(0) 0(0) AMS
7 ER Large Laser, 2 ER Medium Laser 94 7(66) 7(66) 6(56) 0(0) Laser



So I've noticed that MML seems to have issues w/ Ammo weights v/s shot counts.

For example, when I did the mass, its 5 tons per Gauss Rifle in ammo.  40 Shots.   But the TRO print out we see is showing 960 shots as if each of the shots I assigned is a full ton, but, the tonnage matches the small 5 ton allotment I gave.




EDIT:  Fixed some issues w/ Weapons & Crew

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 27 January 2020, 22:02:20

I added Hellraiser's Fedcom entry and also looked at the price tags on the warships (not including the price tags of other things).  Each major navy is just shy of 1 Trillion, except the LCN which is notably more.  (I'm not sure I have the warship count right for the SLDF.)  The minor powers are much cheaper in the 200-400 B range, although obviously still quite expensive. 

I also did a fairly significant refit of the TCN entry (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67500.msg1564092#msg1564092), mostly with an aim towards minimizing cost (by shifting docking collars and mobile HPGs to a supporting jumpship). I also managed to pack a few more capital weapons on each ship and shifted the standard weapons more towards an anti-fighter layout.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 28 January 2020, 07:46:34

Quote from: Lagrange on 27 January 2020, 22:02:20

Each major navy is just shy of 1 Trillion, except the LCN which is notably more.

Its the heavy allocation of HPGs + NC3.  Rationale was the peacetime, treaty-compliant navy is mass limited (hull-count as well, but thats not the pressing limitation) but not C-Bill limited (though I dont know what national budgets are, these navy limits seem quite small compare to historic hull counts).

Based on that, it seemed to make sense to cram as much capability as possible into the peacetime hulls, and then use them as flagships/support capabilities for cheap and cheerful wartime hulls that lack the expensive (collar, HPG,NC3) systems.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Sharpnel on 28 January 2020, 15:35:22

Here's the Outworlds Alliance, built with technological assistance from the Terran Hegemony as three of the four new classes of ships are based on old Terran designs.

Cerberus-class Carrier [2] (OAS Cerberus and OAS Santiago)

Code: [Select]

Cerberus-class Carrier Warship
Mass: 960,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 960,000
Battle Value: 90,081
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 21,133,445,600 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 20
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 210
    Fore Sides: 180/180
    Aft Sides: 180/180
    Aft: 210

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (30)            2 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 7:  Cargo (Liquid) (75000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 8:  Cargo (91716.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,728 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (144 tons),
    300 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (120 tons),
    512 rounds of LRM 15 ammunition (64 tons),
    80 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (2,400 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (125 m, 125 m, 125 m)
Escape Pods: 45
Life Boats: 45
Crew:  66 officers, 171 enlisted/non-rated, 60 gunners, 280 bay personnel, 12 passengers, 128 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
1,365 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (421 Heat)
3 Naval PPC (Light)                         315  21(210) 21(210) 21(210)   0(0)   Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
FRS/FLS (266 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (75 shots)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
4 LRM 15                                    20   4(36)   4(36)   4(36)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 15 Ammo (1024 shots)
RBS/LBS (611 Heat)
5 Naval PPC (Light)                         525  35(350) 35(350) 35(350)   0(0)   Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
ARS/ALS (266 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                 180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (75 shots)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
4 LRM 15                                    20   4(36)   4(36)   4(36)     0(0)   LRM         
    LRM 15 Ammo (1024 shots)
Aft (421 Heat)
3 Naval PPC (Light)                         315  21(210) 21(210) 21(210)   0(0)   Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)      20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)


Elias Pitcairn-class Heavy Cruiser [2] (OAS Elias Pitcairn and OAS Welkens Nordd)

Code: [Select]

Elias Pitcairn-class Heavy Cruiser Warship
Mass: 960,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 960,000
Battle Value: 191,478
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 21,690,150,800 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 20
Heat Sinks: 4,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 210
    Fore Sides: 180/180
    Aft Sides: 180/180
    Aft: 210

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (14)            3 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (12)            3 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (Liquid) (15000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 6:  Cargo (85428.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,728 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (144 tons),
    100 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (5,000 tons),
    600 rounds of NAC/35 ammunition (600 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 3 (125 m, 125 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 45
Life Boats: 45
Crew:  116 officers, 309 enlisted/non-rated, 80 gunners, 92 bay personnel, 64 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
1,365 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (636 Heat)
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Medium)                        270  18(180) 18(180) 18(180) 18(180)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
FRS/FLS (916 Heat)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
6 Naval PPC (Medium)                        810  54(540) 54(540) 54(540) 54(540)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
RBS/LBS (1,026 Heat)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)
ARS/ALS (916 Heat)
6 Large Pulse Laser                         60   5(54)   5(54)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
6 Naval PPC (Medium)                        810  54(540) 54(540) 54(540) 54(540)  Capital PPC
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
Aft (866 Heat)
8 Large Pulse Laser                         80   7(72)   7(72)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
6 Anti-Missile System                        6   2(18)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2592 shots)
4 Naval PPC (Medium)                        540  36(360) 36(360) 36(360) 36(360)  Capital PPC
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (60 shots)


Alpheratz-class Destroyer [4] (OAS Alpheratz, OAS Quatre Belle, OAS Lushann. OAS Ramora)

Code: [Select]

Alpheratz-class Destroyer Warship
Mass: 510,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 510,000
Battle Value: 93,607
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 19,055,028,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 12
Heat Sinks: 2,000
Structural Integrity: 60

Armor
    Nose: 100
    Fore Sides: 80/80
    Aft Sides: 75/75
    Aft: 90

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (Liquid) (10000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (39123.5 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,536 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (128 tons),
    80 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (4,000 tons),
    200 rounds of NAC/35 ammunition (200 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 4
Grav Decks: 2 (100 m, 100 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew:  60 officers, 140 enlisted/non-rated, 80 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 64 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
580 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                        Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                  Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (270 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 55                            170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
FRS/FLS (100 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
RBS/LBS (540 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (50 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/35)                 240  70(700) 70(700)  0(0)     0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/35 Ammo (50 shots)
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
ARS/ALS (315 Heat)
3 Naval Laser 55                            255  17(165) 17(165) 17(165) 17(165)  Capital Laser
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)
Aft (440 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)   40   8(80)   8(80)   8(80)    8(80)   Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (20 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                            340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Large Pulse Laser                         56   6(60)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
4 Anti-Missile System                        4   1(12)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (2304 shots)


Pulsar-class Corvette [12] (OAS Pulsar, OAS Quasar, OAS Event Horizon, OAS Supernova, OAS Corona, OAS Comet, OAS Meteor, OAS Sol,
OAS Sundiver, OAS Hurricane, OAS Tornado, OAS Cyclone)

Code: [Select]

Pulsar-class Corvette Warship
Mass: 320,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3145
Mass: 320,000
Battle Value: 61,556
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 12,739,038,000 C-bills

Fuel: 5,000 tons (12,500)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 4
KF Drive Integrity: 8
Heat Sinks: 2,000
Structural Integrity: 75

Armor
    Nose: 60
    Fore Sides: 50/50
    Aft Sides: 50/50
    Aft: 60

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (20)            4 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (4)         2 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (Liquid) (10000.0 tons)1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Cargo (10004.5 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    576 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (48 tons),
    160 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (64 tons),
    100 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (3,000 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 2
Grav Decks: 2 (75 m, 75 m)
Escape Pods: 30
Life Boats: 30
Crew:  54 officers, 186 enlisted/non-rated, 150 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 64 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small)
340 tons of ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (178 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)     20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (40 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
FRS/FLS (162 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)     20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 35                           104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
RBS/LBS (218 Heat)
3 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                180  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (60 shots)
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
ARS/ALS (162 Heat)
2 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)     20   4(40)   4(40)   4(40)    4(40)   Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (20 shots)
2 Naval Laser 35                           104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser
Aft (246 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 35                           208  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (864 shots)
2 Large Pulse Laser                        36   4(42)   2(18)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
    4 Medium Pulse Laser


Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Daryk on 28 January 2020, 16:45:46

Quote from: marcussmythe on 28 January 2020, 07:46:34

Its the heavy allocation of HPGs + NC3.  Rationale was the peacetime, treaty-compliant navy is mass limited (hull-count as well, but thats not the pressing limitation) but not C-Bill limited (though I dont know what national budgets are, these navy limits seem quite small compare to historic hull counts).

Based on that, it seemed to make sense to cram as much capability as possible into the peacetime hulls, and then use them as flagships/support capabilities for cheap and cheerful wartime hulls that lack the expensive (collar, HPG,NC3) systems.

I like the cut of your jib...  8)

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 28 January 2020, 17:33:30

Thanks!

One of the things I like about the Warship design space is that costs matter, and things largely cost something like what they are worth, so the cost decisions are meaningful.

Others I dislike - rounding up fractional thrust and binding max SI to Thrust really constrains what you can do, because 3/5 is just sooo good compared to everything else - but thats why we changed it in that warship race (one of the better changes.  Others worked less well)

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 28 January 2020, 21:21:27

Added the Outworld's Alliance as well as my understanding of the counts and costs for each ship.

I think the LCN overspending on a navy is fairly reasonable :)

W.r.t. thrust 3/5 lock-in, the screen launcher might change the equation somewhat since you can approach to short range without taking fire.  This makes a 4/6 design with short range / high power weapons potentially a viable alternative.

Another variation on the "standard" broadside approach is using a nose mounted weapon (as per the Anvil), which I'm a bit enchanted with at the moment.  Having twice as many weapons and a worse critical table may be worth the drawback of giving the enemy a bonus of 1 to hit. 

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: marcussmythe on 28 January 2020, 21:39:02

Quote from: Lagrange on 28 January 2020, 21:21:27

Added the Outworld's Alliance as well as my understanding of the counts and costs for each ship.

I think the LCN overspending on a navy is fairly reasonable :)

W.r.t. thrust 3/5 lock-in, the screen launcher might change the equation somewhat since you can approach to short range without taking fire.  This makes a 4/6 design with short range / high power weapons potentially a viable alternative.

Another variation on the "standard" broadside approach is using a nose mounted weapon (as per the Anvil), which I'm a bit enchanted with at the moment.  Having twice as many weapons and a worse critical table may be worth the drawback of giving the enemy a bonus of 1 to hit.

I would go so far to say that screen launchers would effectively render any non-point-blank strategy near trivial, though Id have to push minis around a table, with custom designs, to be sure. 

Now, this is largely a false artifact of our game system - in ‘real’ space, with both sides maneuvering in 3 dimensions and moving through all intervening space rather than ‘teleporting’ point to point (such that one cannot simply worry about being covered at the end of each move), I doubt the perfect walls of impenetrable terrain would be a thing.  Certainly a more detailed movement system (phased, perhaps) would largely cure this, while still giving them some value.

NacNose/Lasertail likely dominates.  You essentially double your firepower, and largely double your armor, at the price of pointing your bad critical chances at the opponent.  Given that sort of firepower and resilience advantage, I dont believe that the criticals will matter, inasmuch as the other side is dead.  Fleet engagements will make this effect stronger, due to the tendency of ships to be hard killed in single exchanges (though this too is an artifact of our turn based tabletop game)

Im not sure how to cure that, if needful, though if I did my temptation would be to further increase the accuracy advantage of engaging a nose or tail on target aspect target - one cannot as effectively apply delta-v (and generate misses!) with manuvering thrusters as one can with main drive (it is my default assumption that all ships are to some degree drunk-walking at all times, else ‘missing’ wouldnt be a thing, espc with lasers fired at kilometer long targets)

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 29 January 2020, 07:19:02

Quote from: marcussmythe on 28 January 2020, 21:39:02

I would go so far to say that screen launchers would effectively render any non-point-blank strategy near trivial, though Id have to push minis around a table, with custom designs, to be sure. 

It's a little tricky.  Assume the 'slow' design is half armor/half weapons load and consider the next faster design having the same armor.  Then:
A 4/6 loses ~3/10ths of it's weapons load to close on a 3/5.
A 5/8 loses ~2/5ths of it's weapons load to close on a 4/6.
A 6/9 loses ~1/2 of it's weapons load to close on a 5/8.
A 7/11 loses >2/3 of it's weapons load to close on a 6/9.

Given that capital weapons deliver only about x2 damage close in, you can't really manage with a mixture of only close-attack warships because someone could design warships with the same tonnage/speed and keep the range.

Quote from: marcussmythe on 28 January 2020, 21:39:02

NacNose/Lasertail likely dominates. 

The fire control becomes an issue at battleship scales, particularly with Naval C3.  If a navy committed to only such designs, then they might have some vulnerability to a (more) maneuverable extreme range opponent.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: truetanker on 29 January 2020, 13:32:10

I gained more ground and had alot slower navy when I ran the Marian Hegemony in the old Warship Race. I kept my pace of conquest by not overstretching my resources.

Now back to the topic: I say the faster the unit is, the lesser amount of firepower on target. If you're going to intercept someone, make sure it's at your advantage, not theirs.

TT

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 02 February 2020, 01:00:23

Quote from: Lagrange on 28 January 2020, 21:21:27

W.r.t. thrust 3/5 lock-in, the screen launcher might change the equation somewhat since you can approach to short range without taking fire.  This makes a 4/6 design with short range / high power weapons potentially a viable alternative.

The FC Navy being very 4/6 & SI heavy made for some challenges since I handicapped myself into not being able to make a Baby-McKenna/Black Lion type ship.

The Mjolnir is big but it could have had so much more space for guns if it was say 105 SI w/ 3 Thrust rate.

Even the "Slow" Fox has 100 SI & I didn't want to change any of the basic WS frames for this project.

Just weapons, armor, dropship collars, & Crew/Cargo/Craft.


That said, I noticed quite a few errors in my ships, something about Save's not taking & pasting the wrong versions, and not having the crew rules for this program understood.

I'm made some added tweaks & changed some weapons too.

The new versions are in the same thread where the old ones were if you want to check them out.

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Lagrange on 02 February 2020, 08:45:23

I updated the high level descriptors here (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67500.msg1577779#msg1577779). 

Just checking: the Avalon II and Avalon III are supposed to have identical weapons loadouts, right?

Title: Re: (AU) Build a treaty compliant navy!
Post by: Hellraiser on 02 February 2020, 11:56:36

Yes, originally they didn't but when I was fixing everything else I just decided to match them up.   

Which means the Cruiser lost some firepower from my first post, but being 4/6 & 120 SI was always going to leave these FC ships short on either Firepower or Cargo.

So in my rebuilds I was trying to balance out some of their anemic cargo holds while streamlining what firepower they did have into sensible bays.