Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST

[Xotl]

This thread is for all error reports and suggestions for the MUL online database, as found at:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/

Some notes - read before posting:

 - How do I log in?  You can't.  The login is only for site administrators.
 - As this covers suggestions as well as errors, discussion is allowed in this thread.  This discussion is between the people giving feedback and the MUL team, not discussion among fans.  Please make your own feedback, not reply to others.
 - Virtually all units now have Dark Age availability except the Homeworld Clans, some units we know little about, and "fate unknown" units like the Black Widow mechs from Wolf and Blake.
 - Corrections not touching on the above are welcome.  However, please provide a page number and/or direct quote to support your case.  "Faction X should have this because I said so" is less than helpful and will likely be ignored.
 - If you have corrections for a unit entry, include a direct MUL link to the unit in question in your report.
 - If it's a BV or Alpha Strike stat correction, please enclose or attach your entire calculation and how you made it (by hand, SSW, MML, Heavy Metal etc; include version number of any software used).
 - This thread is for posting feedback to the MUL team, and for the MUL team to respond.  Let the MUL team respond.  (If you want to discuss something yourself, please take it to the rest of the forums).

Please keep your posts concise and polite.  Posts that do not follow these rules will be deleted.  Thank you.

WHAT IS THE MUL?
- The Master Unit List is a free product that contains the latest Battle Values, Alpha Strike stats, faction availabilities, and introduction dates for as many units in BattleTech as we can manage.

- The MUL is official and fully canonical.  At the same time, it's a living document, continually being updated to best reflect all available sources.

- If a unit appears on the MUL, then it exists.  This does not mean that said unit will ever see its stats published.

- That something is not on the MUL does not mean it doesn't exist.  Not every factory, vehicle, and handgun in the universe has been documented, nor will they ever be.  The MUL is what we know to date: what has been documented in canon. 

- Unlike the MUL, Sarna.net is not a canon source.  If Sarna lists a unit and the MUL doesn't, then the MUL is most likely correct (though we certainly do make mistakes, which this thread is here to collect and correct).  The MUL has access to internal information that Sarna does not.


Previous Thread:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-(mul)-feedback-thread-ii-read-the-first-post/

Project Updates:

[Negatorxx]

Kokou Defense Tank and Kokou (XL) are listed in the MUL, but have no stat card or PV.  The stat card is available in FM: Golden Century and TP: Tokasha

[GreekFire]

Kokou Defense Tank and Kokou (XL) are listed in the MUL, but have no stat card or PV.  The stat card is available in FM: Golden Century and TP: Tokasha

They've now been inputted.

[neonarmy]

In Sword and Dragon there is a Trebuchet TBT-5K (pg 98 in my PDF) that has a record sheet but the unit does not appear on MUL

Also, in the Second Succession War they mention the Thunderbolt TDR-5L and the TDR-5LS with what their loadouts are but they don't exist in the MUL (pg 116). I don't know if this also extends to the Battlemaster and Griffin that are on the surrounding pages.

[nckestrel]

The TBT-5K in Sword and Dragon should be TBT-7K.  Errata was posted for Sword and Dragon.

The Thunderbolts are on the MUL
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7762/thunderbolt-tdr-5l
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7763/thunderbolt-tdr-5ls

[Sartris]

the battlemaster http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/282/battlemaster-blr-1d and the griffin http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1298/griffin-grf-1s are also there.

thanks all the same. it's good to double-check things

[neonarmy]

The TBT-5K in Sword and Dragon should be TBT-7K.  Errata was posted for Sword and Dragon.

The Thunderbolts are on the MUL
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7762/thunderbolt-tdr-5l
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7763/thunderbolt-tdr-5ls

Thanks. i didn't know about that errata. 
I should have clarified. I noticed the MULs for those two are listed but both are blank besides having the PV listed. I guess I don't know if they are filling in all of the data on the mechs in the MUL.

[Sartris]

those units don't have official record sheets or an BV listed in the book so they haven't been added in. note that one can plug the stats into mech creation software and get something that's probably correct as well as suitable for tabletop play. it's just not official enough to put on the MUL.

[Phaedros]

The Shadow Cat T has the role of Scout, but is +1 damage at Short and Medium with no other changes compared to the Shadow Cat Prime which is a Striker. This doesn't seem to be correct to me, was there a criteria change to Striker, or is there something in the calculation that changed the role?

Also, the Ice Ferret T is a Scout compared to the Prime which is a Striker, with the only differences being +4" of movement and -2 damage at Long. Looking for clarification for this as well.

[Scotty]

Roles are ultimately arbitrary and there is no hard and fast "this must be X role" criteria.  The Shadow Cat T has an Active Probe and otherwise can fit the criteria.  The Prime also has an Active Probe but was deemed a Striker at the time.  Suggested criteria for roles frequently have large sections of overlap.

Same thing with the Ice Ferret.  Both the T and the Prime could reasonably Scouts or Strikers.  The Prime happened to be a Striker when it was decided, the T happened to be a Scout.  Maybe for variety?  The number of Scouts bigger than a Light is tiny.

[Sartris]

Variety, yes. It gives extra options for AS/CO Lance and Star forcebuilding - especially for situations where Clan forces have to muster over 50% of a certain type (ie 3 out of 5 elements).  Light missile boats like the Valkyrie QA and Locust 1M with 10 LRM tubes are another example. The Loki / Hellbringer J is a scout... a chassis and weight class not normally associated with recon. That one could easily have been a skirmisher, but nckestrel was (in his own words) feeling capricious that day. The world is better for it  ;D

There are guidelines. We just choose to ignore them sometimes. And sometimes we enforce them - I drafted the roles for the Caveat Emptor mechs and initially had the Wasp 3X as a skirmisher but was asked to change it to a missile boat or scout due to a lack of armor. Ultimately shirking the guidelines is a calculated move - usually made in the interests of fun or variety

[Phaedros]

Interesting. So if the roles are arbitrary, then the role requirements for formations are just suggestions essentially, lol. :P

Thanks for the replies.

[Sartris]

Not so much arbitrary as flexible. You’ll never see a 2/3 scout, for example

[Scotty]

Interesting. So if the roles are arbitrary, then the role requirements for formations are just suggestions essentially, lol. :P

Thanks for the replies.

Units have a role.  The way they're assigned that role can be somewhat arbitrary, but that unit is still that role at the end of the day.  Formation role requirements must still be fulfilled.

There'a more variety in the Scout role than there was prior to the Rec Guides, but that's really the only outlier.

[Inspector2311]

Shouldn't all of the Clan Elemental Battle Armor units which feature the SRM2 have the Special: SRM 1/1?

An example, but far from the only one:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/960/elemental-battle-armor-laser

Or am I misunderstanding how SRM 1/1 works?

[Empyrus]

Shouldn't all of the Clan Elemental Battle Armor units which feature the SRM2 have the Special: SRM 1/1?

An example, but far from the only one:

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/960/elemental-battle-armor-laser

Or am I misunderstanding how SRM 1/1 works?

Elementals cannot use alternate SRM munitions in Alpha Strike, so the special attack isn't applied to them.

[nckestrel]

It's not explicitly stated in the Companion, but the weapons table for battle armor weapons doesn't list SRM or LRM next to any of the battle armor weapons (SRM1, SRM2, etc).  Empyrus gave the major reason why.

Elementals cannot use alternate SRM munitions in Alpha Strike, so the special attack isn't applied to them.

[Inspector2311]

Haha, I actually just thought of that possibility this morning.  Thanks!

[mvp7]

Ballista Self-Propelled Artillery Tank seems to have wrong picture in MUL.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard

[Empyrus]

Ballista Self-Propelled Artillery Tank seems to have wrong picture in MUL.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard

Should use the same pic as the Reaper:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7413/reaper-self-propelled-artillery

Oh, and this discussion came up earlier:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/motw-schedule-thread-2017/msg1719690/#msg1719690

Specifically, where do the Daimyo -2KA and 3K come from?

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=daimyo

[GreekFire]

Ballista Self-Propelled Artillery Tank seems to have wrong picture in MUL.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6775/ballista-self-propelled-artillery-tank-standard

Thanks, fixed.

Specifically, where do the Daimyo -2KA and 3K come from?

They were meant to cover the variant fluff from the original TR:3055 (specifically the ERPPC to PPC swap, and the armor for heat sink swap.)

[Empyrus]

They were meant to cover the original variant fluff from TR:3055.

About as i assumed. Thanks!

[Rainbow 6]

The Stinger C 2 has been set as inner sphere general in the dark age era, should this be inner sphere clan general the same as the Stinger C?

[Sartris]

nope. the C 2 should have IS Clan General. It was never meant for spheroid distribution. bad data entry monkey! bad!

[Hussar2]

I believe the Ostsol 8F should be added to the Federated Suns in the Dark Age era. Its produced on Robinson and while the text
mentions that the Ostsol production hasn't switched completely to the 8F variant it doesn't say that production of this variant was entirely halted.
"There was discussion about
converting the line entirely over to this variant, but..."

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8173/ostsol-otl-8f

[Sartris]

I believe it was determined that the Suns didn't control the planet long enough to produce a sufficient number before the end of the era. It was basically Dec 1, 3149 before the dracs were cleared off the planet. Assuming they hold on, you'll see it on the AFFS roster in the next era

[GreekFire]

I believe the Ostsol 8F should be added to the Federated Suns in the Dark Age era. Its produced on Robinson and while the text
mentions that the Ostsol production hasn't switched completely to the 8F variant it doesn't say that production of this variant was entirely halted.
"There was discussion about
converting the line entirely over to this variant, but..."

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8173/ostsol-otl-8f

The passage states that the 8F was only temporarily (being the key word) put into production by the Combine. The "converting the line entirely" only refers to this point in time.

As such, the Republic/FedSuns continuing the policy would mean that they would continue to not produce the design, though that may change in the future.

[Xotl]

The passage states that the 8F was only temporarily (being the key word) put into production by the Combine. The "converting the line entirely" only refers to this point in time.

As such, the Republic/FedSuns continuing the policy would mean that they would continue to not produce the design, though that may change in the future.

Yeah, Greekfire has it right.

[Hussar2]

Bushwacker X4 is listed as having a tonnage of 50. It should be 55.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7454/bushwacker-bsw-x4

[Sartris]

now biggerer