Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread III - READ THE FIRST POST

[GreekFire]

Bolla (RotS) Prime is the issue:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/413/bolla-stealth-tank-rots-prime

Simply an oversight. Fixed.

[CVB]

Thanks!  :thumbsup:


My other point is that the Errata document right now states that the RotS Bolla had been changed from
"Technology Base: Inner Sphere" to
"Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)"
in the second printing.

Since we all agree that it is, in fact, "Advanced", the errata for the next printing should reflect that and read

Bolla Stealth Tank (p. 34)
Technology Base should be changed from "Inner Sphere (Experimental)" to "Inner Sphere (Advanced)".

to avoid to wrongly repeat it as "Experimental" in the next reprint of TRO3085.
That's why I asked if I should raise this point in the TRO3085 error thread or if this would be flagged via internal channels.

[ShroudedSciuridae]

Didn't there used to be the static emplacements from McCarron's Armored Cavalry on here?

[Sartris]

never left. they're classified under the unit type "Building"

http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/353/mccarrons-armored-cavalry

[Rainbow 6]

Should Wolf's Dragoons have the Ebon Jaguar/Cauldron-Born on their availability list, the main character in the Redemption Rift novel pilots one?

[Luciora]

Kokou Defense Tank (XL) is available to the Magistry of Canopus during the Star League. 

[Sartris]

i usually catch that when i do it. we add 'not available' to eras previous to the introduction. sometimes i hit 'm' instead of 'n' by accident and it jumps to the MoC. this is the first instance of those wily canopians's time travel division sneaking items back...

[Hussar2]

some availability questions:

The Assault Triumph 3062 is listed as a DC and later CC design. While it's correct The DC produces the Triumph 3057 this is a WoB design produced on Terra. Additionally the cargo bay uses a 6 base system (6 mechs, 36 BA). shouldn't it be extinct or maybe RotS design like the 3082 version?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5297/assault-triumph-3062

The Aurora dropship is produced on skye in the LA later RotS and Delavan in the FS. Should it be available to the DC? Additionally by the Dark Age it is being produced by the Filtvelt Coalition (FM3145 page 189)

The Challenger X is a Vehicle that was probably widely sold by the Federated Commonwealth around the Clan Invasion era but should it continue to be available to the DC and TC all through the Dark Age after years of hostility between the FS and the DC (its in the Taurian RAT in FM 3085)?

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/538/challenger-mbt-x

[Hussar2]

Kirishima class cruiser remove from the FS list in the Jihad Era. The only Kirishima (Covenant) the FS had was destroyed during the civil war (ramming speed! IIRC)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4451/kirishima-cruiser-standard

[GreekFire]

some availability questions:

The Assault Triumph 3062 is listed as a DC and later CC design. While it's correct The DC produces the Triumph 3057 this is a WoB design produced on Terra. Additionally the cargo bay uses a 6 base system (6 mechs, 36 BA). shouldn't it be extinct or maybe RotS design like the 3082 version?

The CapCon is noted as producing it in FM:3145, the DC's examples are simply leftovers that had previously been purchased from the WoB. Relatedly, the RotS isn't a user of the design, instead favoring the Assault Triumph (3082).

The Aurora dropship is produced on skye in the LA later RotS and Delavan in the FS. Should it be available to the DC? Additionally by the Dark Age it is being produced by the Filtvelt Coalition (FM3145 page 189)

The DC availability is supported by Wars of the Republic Era, but Filtvelt does appear to be an omission. We'll look into this.

The Challenger X is a Vehicle that was probably widely sold by the Federated Commonwealth around the Clan Invasion era but should it continue to be available to the DC and TC all through the Dark Age after years of hostility between the FS and the DC (its in the Taurian RAT in FM 3085)?

Things in the BattleTech universe sometimes take a while to no longer become available, which would be the reason it's still around here. Things like salvage can help it stick around as well.

Kirishima class cruiser remove from the FS list in the Jihad Era. The only Kirishima (Covenant) the FS had was destroyed during the civil war (ramming speed! IIRC)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4451/kirishima-cruiser-standard

That's a bit of an issue, ain't it. Fixed!

[Empyrus]

It occurred to me that every now and then someone wonders what availability in MUL means, or is confused by it, or something like that. Would it be possible to add explanation for that somewhere?

[Scotty]

Should Wolf's Dragoons have the Ebon Jaguar/Cauldron-Born on their availability list, the main character in the Redemption Rift novel pilots one?

One example doesn't really establish availability.  Once the Ebon Jag comes out in a Rec Guide we might know better for sure but until then it hasn't been produced in the better part of a hundred years and there's no consistent way for the Dragoons to have gotten more of them.  Its availability in the Dark Age timeframe is generously speaking "limited".

[Spartan601]

Hi all.

Long time lurker, very rare poster. I have had a question buzzing in the back of my mind regarding infantry that has been driving me nuts, and I finally decided to do something about it. I am fairly sure the answer is simple and obvious, but here goes.

There are many named Infantry units, like those below, that are available to many factions. Is this intended to allow all the factions to represent that type of unit, without drowning the MUL in different cards for each faction?

Clan Foot Infantry Ad Hoc Point, 42nd BattleMech Cluster, Theta Galaxy
Foot Ballistic Rifle Hastati V, 513th Infantry Regiment
Heavy Foot LRM Infantry Stalwart Support-Heavy LRM Infantry

As a follow up, is there any reason why there are a few named units that don't allow for analogous units?
Two examples I've found for this are:

Heavy Jump Infantry DEST Heavy Response Platoon
SRM Foot Infantry Taurian Citizens Militia


Thanks in advance for your help in silencing the buzzing!

[StingerTheRaven]

some Aerospace PV peer-review, calculated via home-made spreadsheet. Which is wrong; me, Alpha Strike Companion (i.e. I'm correct according to ASC v1.4, but that's out-of-date), or MUL?


Sparrowhawk SPR-H5 - TARGET: 20PV* (me and MUL are in agreement here) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2992/sparrowhawk-spr-h5

Code: [Select]

DMG: 2+(1+1)+0 = 4
Thrust: (10/4)+1 = 3.5
ARM: (4*1.5) = 6
STR: 5 = 5
Thresh: 2 * (SZ1/2) = 1


Sum = 19.5, round to 20


Corsair CSR-V12b - TARGET: 30PV http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/694/corsair-csr-v12b

Code: [Select]

DMG: 4+(4+4)+2=14
Thrust: 6/4 = 1.5
ARM: (7*1.5) = 10.5
STR: 3 = 3
Thresh: 3 * (SZ2/2) = 3


Sum = 32!


Shiva SHV-OB - TARGET: 39PV http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5054/shiva-shv-ob

Code: [Select]

DMG: 4+(7+7)+7 = 25
Thrust: 5/4 = 1.25
ARM: (6*1.5) = 9
STR: 4 = 4
Thresh: 2 * (SZ3/2) = 3


Sum = 42.25, round to 42!


Stuka STU-K5b - TARGET: 44PV http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3111/stuka-stu-k5b

Code: [Select]

DMG: 6+(6+6)+4 = 22
OV: 1 = 1
Thrust: 5/4 = 1.25
ARM: (9*1.5) = 13.5
STR: 5 = 5
Thresh: 3 * (SZ3/2) = 4.5


Sum = 47.25, round to 47!


remarks: I suspect there's been change in how thrust and/or threshold influence the calculation? Might have to experiment here.

[nckestrel]

I think you're missing a couple errata in 1.4. These are both on p18 of the ASC Errata v1.4.

Threshold is not a separate add to PV any more.
"The Armor Factor of an aerospace unit equals its Alpha Strike Armor value. This is multiplied by (1.3 + (the unit’s Threshold *
0.1)); if the result is higher than 1.9, reduce it to 1.9. If the unit has the BAR special, divide the final result by 2."
So a Corsair with Armor of 7 and Threshold 3 has 7 * (1.3 + 0.3) for 7 * 1.6.  And then no +3 for Threshold.

Thrust adds 0.5 for Thrust 7-9 or 2 for Thrust 10.
so the Corsair would have 1.5 for Thrust, but the Sparrowhawk would have 10/4 +2 for Thrust 10, not 10/4 + 1. (but no +1 for threshold, thus the same final end result of 20 PV).

[StingerTheRaven]

Ah, thank you! Something did seem off when I was reading the original PDF, guess I should read more thoroughly.

[Empyrus]

Wait, what's the Perseus doing on the Escorpión Imperio/Scorpion Empire availability list? Like, how?

EDIT Also, the Perseus W should probably be listed as extinct after the Jihad, because it uses a C3i computer. At least i got an impression that very few exceptions aside, the tech was very much extinct and banned. For comparison, the Avatar E is extinct after the Jihad because of this.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5699/perseus-p1w

[GreekFire]

Wait, what's the Perseus doing on the Escorpión Imperio/Scorpion Empire availability list? Like, how?

Waypoint 531, same as the rest of the Blakist equipment in SE ranks.

[Xotl]

The Empire captured a major Word of Blake cache at one point that heavily influenced their touman for some time.

[Empyrus]

Oh, i missed/forgot that. Not sure which. Well then.

[Xotl]

Hi all.

Long time lurker, very rare poster. I have had a question buzzing in the back of my mind regarding infantry that has been driving me nuts, and I finally decided to do something about it. I am fairly sure the answer is simple and obvious, but here goes.

There are many named Infantry units, like those below, that are available to many factions. Is this intended to allow all the factions to represent that type of unit, without drowning the MUL in different cards for each faction?

Clan Foot Infantry Ad Hoc Point, 42nd BattleMech Cluster, Theta Galaxy
Foot Ballistic Rifle Hastati V, 513th Infantry Regiment
Heavy Foot LRM Infantry Stalwart Support-Heavy LRM Infantry

As a follow up, is there any reason why there are a few named units that don't allow for analogous units?
Two examples I've found for this are:

Heavy Jump Infantry DEST Heavy Response Platoon
SRM Foot Infantry Taurian Citizens Militia


Thanks in advance for your help in silencing the buzzing!

Quoting this because I moved it here.

[nckestrel]

There are many named Infantry units, like those below, that are available to many factions. Is this intended to allow all the factions to represent that type of unit, without drowning the MUL in different cards for each faction?

Exactly.
The names are intended as specific examples of the general template.  We assigned the availability based on who could use that record sheet.  If Faction A has WXYZ Infantry, we asisnged it to Faction B if:
1. Faction B uses the same infantry organization. If it's a 28 troop infantry platoon, does Faction B use 28 troop infantry platoons?  If not, they can't have it.
2. Faction B has the individual equipment (usually armor) available, or a version with the same stats. The faction specific armor was the main issue here.  If Faction B doesn't have equipment available with the same (Total Warfare) stats, then Faction B can't have that unit.
I suppose there is a 3. Would Faction B use this infantry unit?  But I don't recall this being an issue with any of them.

Heavy Jump Infantry DEST Heavy Response Platoon

The DEST Infiltration Suit is rather unique.

SRM Foot Infantry Taurian Citizens Militia

The Taurian infantry organization is rather unique.

Thanks in advance for your help in silencing the buzzing!

You're welcome, thanks for asking.

[jasonf]

Here are a few more errata I found in my neverending rabbit hole of unit production research...

1. Katya GAC: The "(RL15)" variant should probably be the "(RL20)" variant according to HBHL (The standard model has RL15's, and the variants are the RL10 version, RL20 version, and fuel version):
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4438/katya-ground-assault-craft-rl15

2. Shilone SL-18: Should be available to Taurians for Civil War, Jihad eras (and later?). Produced by Wingman Enterprises according to HBMPS as a joint venture with OWA (so I assume this is the correct variant as the OWA also has access to it).
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2926/shilone-sl-18

3. Overlord A3 DropShip: Lyran Alliance should have it in Civil War, Jihad eras. Produced by Shipil-Skye according to HBHS.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4776/overlord-a3

[GreekFire]

*snip*

I'll bring the two other points up for discussion, but Shilone production was established to be the SL-17.

[jasonf]

I'll bring the two other points up for discussion, but Shilone production was established to be the SL-17.

Good to know. Sounds like trade deals weren't really Grover Shraplen's calling...

[CVB]

1) AA Mechanized infantry Mechanized AA Infantry Point, 67th BattleMech Cluster, Iota Galaxy from TRO3085 seems to have gotten its Tonnage and BV values from the neighbouring Clan Heavy Jump Infantry Heavy Infantry Point, 91st Mechanized Assault, Epsilon Galaxy. Original values are 20 tons and BV=99.


2) Conventional Infantry classification:

MUL classifies 117 infantry units as Type "Conventional Infantry" with Subtype "Conventional Infantry - Mechanized".
Among those 117 units are Tracked, Wheeled and Hover units (and one Submersible Mechanized unit).

However there are also three Subtypes "Conventional Infantry - Hover"), "Conventional Infantry - Tracked" and "Conventional Infantry - Wheeled",  containing 16(H), 15(T) and 16(W) Mechanized Infantry units of the respective movement type.

Is there a specific reason why most units are lumped together as "Mechanized" while some are grouped according to their movement type?


 

[Sartris]

1) definitely a mistake. interestingly it has the CAR20 special. fixed

2) this will require review to determine if there was reasoning or just a misclassification. EDIT: I think I see what's going on here but will have to run it past the rest of the team

[Sartris]

Update: Conventional Infantry - Mechanized was a catchall category for mechinf from TW and TO. With the introduction of the TR3085 infantry, movement type was no longer immediately obvious based on the name. All mechanized infantry are now sorted into subtypes that match their movement modes (as this actually matters in the game)

Hover
Tracked
Wheeled
VTOL
SCUBA

[Hussar2]

Rawhide-R1 should be added to the mercenary list. From IlClan RG 15 page 4: "making the Rawhide popular with
budget-conscious users like mercenaries"
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8189/rawhide-rwd-r1

[GreekFire]

Rawhide-R1 should be added to the mercenary list. From IlClan RG 15 page 4: "making the Rawhide popular with
budget-conscious users like mercenaries"
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8189/rawhide-rwd-r1

Thanks, fixed.