Author Topic: Mechs That Surprised You  (Read 10730 times)

Crackerb0x

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Mechs That Surprised You
« on: 11 October 2018, 05:31:38 »
So, in my experience, the TRO gives you some idea of how the machine works, but there's no test like combat.

With this in mind, I'm wondering, oh hivemind of the forum, what are BattleMechs, combat vehicles, infantry, or battle armor that were total monsters on the field.

Recently I got to try the MAD-3R Marauder for the first time in an intro-tech game for the first time, literally ever, and I understand the love it gets. It's a monster.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #1 on: 11 October 2018, 09:09:41 »
For me it was the Jagermech 6H. On paper it looks average at best,  but when a Mad Cat runs up to you and you launch 90 rockets at it is priceless.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #2 on: 11 October 2018, 09:16:23 »
My favorite 3145 design is the Black Hawk Standard. It didn't start out as my fav, though. I originally took it as a medium slot-filler mech for a company sized force in Alpha Strike, in my first AS game it utterly destroyed a Marauder II Bounty Hunter... every gamer after that it just wrecked whatever mech I sent it after: Atlas 3, Mad Cat 4, it died a few times, but it always took down a bigger high value mech with it.
I've only used it twice in regular Battletech, and both times it's shower of SRMs have done severe damage quickly. Either multiple head hits ( in one game 3 head rolls in one 16 missile attack ), or shredding armor off by the ton.
In 3145 games, it's always my first choice now.

Colt Ward

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #3 on: 11 October 2018, 09:21:45 »
Is it the ERLL or SRMs?
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #4 on: 11 October 2018, 09:24:03 »
Bloodhound. Looks weird, didn't really seem like much on the record sheet, ignored it for years.

Then I got one in a Grinder game, and actually ran it.

It's a blast. Even if you don't have much use for the Beagle probe, the weaponry is surprisingly effective against other scout units, and can sting an unwary heavy from behind pretty nicely- and the speed makes it quite able to find its way back there. It's tough enough to survive most encounters with similar-scope units as well.

Never would have given it a second glance if not for that game, but I adore the Bloodhound now.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #5 on: 11 October 2018, 09:30:16 »
One surprise that I ran into way back was when I first played a Hermes II "Mercury" variant.  The standard HER-2S isn't terrible as a Medium command element of a Light recon lance, but doesn't have the firepower to engage anything serious, so I wasn't expecting much out of yet another Hermes, especially with no long-ranged gun, just a few MLs, MGs, and a Flamer.  It quickly became apparent that the 7/11 speed gave it enough mobility to put the weapons where they were needed, the 11 heatsinks were sufficient to fire everything except either the Flamer or one ML turn after turn without building heat, the armor was quite respectable for its weight class, and the combination of MLs followed by MGs allowed it to tear up back armor and then fill the holes with tasty bits of lead (crit-seeking), scoring a couple of surprisingly easy kills against 'Mechs far above its weight.  I'm still a big fan.

The MAD-3R was an early favorite, and I still love the old artwork for it, but the unpadded ammo in the left torso, combined with the relatively thin side torso armor (compared to just about every other location) has plagued it in several games, and it's definitely light on heat sinks.  There are better variants, or else a simple change or two to deal with the ammo problem, like swapping the AC for a LL and some extra heatsinks, or to an LRM-10 rack, a couple of heatsinks in the side torso (to provide some padding for the ammo), and one more ton of armor mostly used to beef up the sides a bit, could have fixed it.  It's GOOD, but so close to being "RIGHT" without actually being there that it hurts.  Of course, much of that was due to the design rules change between the ORIGINAL rules and all of the later versions, which moved most of the heat sinks to inside the engine itself (originally, ALL of the heat sinks in a 'Mech took up slots), so the stacks of heat sinks protecting the ammo were no longer there.....but still not as "splody" as a Crusader (aka "Roman Candle") or a Trebuchet.  I still have a nostalgic affinity for the venerable MAD-3R, and enjoy running them, but am well aware of its issues.

The Whitworth was another surprise when I first used one, especially as it was frequently derided on the boards as the "Worthless".  Turns out, it's a fantastic "bracket fire" design: either you fire the long-ranged weapons, or the short-ranged, but not both.  It's got as much armor as a Dervish that's 15 tons heavier, packs roughly the same firepower, and surrenders one point of movement and jump distance for those 15 tons.  Not a bad deal.  Since I was playing a mercenary campaign at the time, heavily constrained by prices, the smaller engine and gyro on the Whitworth made it an affordable option which I had some initial hesitation over.  Once I fielded the 'Mech, it contributed effective fire support to the rest of the group (from a range where speed doesn't matter that much), and when the ammo ran out, its triple MLs and respectable armor were surprisingly useful against the beat-up front-line units still remaining on the opposing side.  The Catapult serves the same function: providing effective fire support from well behind the front line until the ammo runs out, and then you discover that the REAL threat is the MLs.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #6 on: 11 October 2018, 09:32:24 »
For me it might be the Raven II . . . I took it to try out the TSEMP in a open game.  It was fun to run around and mess with someone's high BV shooter every other turn.  I would dash out from behind cover to get in close range, fire the TSEMP and then run off behind cover no matter what happened with the roll.  Messed with the other side enough that it drew some attention on that flank . . . when I overextended trying to get more damage out of it, it got knocked down . . . and then they massed fire to get rid of the annoyance.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #7 on: 11 October 2018, 09:48:20 »
MGL-T2 Mongrel. This thing turned out to be a beast. Especially since a couple of the opposing 'Mechs were packing lots of ATMs.

It's fast enough to backstab and has just enough firepower to open some holes (which the retractable blade seemed to find!).
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #8 on: 11 October 2018, 10:05:26 »
The Raptor.

it is 25 tons and has tissue paper for armour, with an XL engine.

That said, 11.5t of weapons and good stock configs make it a very potent backstabber, and can hit very hard. I took out a solitaire with it (A config).

for something that was supposed to be a testbed and not live long, it is hellishly effective.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #9 on: 11 October 2018, 13:44:32 »
I think the Rakshasa fits the bill for me. It looks hideous, the weapons loadout seemed poor for a 75-tonner, and it had an XL with ammo in both side torsos. Heck, it was even fluffed as being a poor imitation of the Timber Wolf. Well, compared to the Timber Wolf it is pretty sad, but it is also loads cheaper in terms of BV. For the cost, it has actually served me quite well the couple times I've had to run one. I still think it is ugly as sin, but it can actually pull its weight. In fact, most of the variants end up being quite a bit nicer than the original, and the -1Ar is dangerously close to being just plain good.

On the other end side of things, I was surprised at just how hit-or-miss the standard King Crab can be. Sure, Dual AC/20's are frightening, but only if they ever manage to get in range. It is slow enough to be prone to getting picked apart before it really manages to bring the 20's into play. Without those big guns, a single large laser and LRM15 isn't very scary. There are plenty of other Assaults with a similar problem, but I think the King Crab is the one where reality was the furthest from my expectations. The standard Atlas isn't any faster and doesn't have any more to offer in terms of longer-ranged weapons, but with more of the weaponry in the torsos, it seems to still be around more often once the Atlas manages to close. If I lose an arm on an Atlas, no big deal. Lose one on the big crab, or even just get it opened up and start taking crits, and you are looking at losing major firepower.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #10 on: 11 October 2018, 13:47:58 »
You guys are gonna think I'm an idiot, but because Mechwarrior trained me to not value long range weapons that weren't high-mounted, I never looked twice at the Awesome or the Warhammer.  Both are now mainstay mechs in MegaMek.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #11 on: 11 October 2018, 14:30:48 »
The Daikyu. It's a solid heavy skirmisher with excellent mobility for the size. It's great BV value at 1603 as well.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #12 on: 11 October 2018, 15:38:47 »
You guys are gonna think I'm an idiot, but because Mechwarrior trained me to not value long range weapons that weren't high-mounted, I never looked twice at the Awesome or the Warhammer.  Both are now mainstay mechs in MegaMek.
Fortunately for tabletop BT, "high-mounted covers" anything not mounted in the legs.  ;)

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #13 on: 11 October 2018, 16:14:38 »
Bloodhound.

One surprise that I ran into way back was when I first played a Hermes II "Mercury" variant.

Since these two got mentioned 1st and they are my go to examples, I'll add the Tenshi A to the list.  You'll either love it or hate depending on what you think of VSPs.  I think VSPs are pretty awesome.  The first time I ran one was with a 5/4 pilot in a roughly 2k bv melee.  I'm not a big MRM guy, but when everything hits and I frequently did, it just savaged my opponent.  My opinion of it before I used it was 'this could be good' and coming out of it each and every time I think its awesome.  As much as I try, I really can't get behind most other DC designs, but this one is great.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #14 on: 11 October 2018, 19:44:36 »
The Ryoken E.

I didn't expect it to be a bad mech, but when I got into the side arc of an untouched Turkina at 3 hexes and put 18 HE missiles into the Right Torso, well, there you go.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #15 on: 11 October 2018, 22:48:55 »
For me it is the Dervish which in fluff seems to be looked down upon but seeing it in action it seems very effective.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #16 on: 11 October 2018, 23:28:33 »
The one that still stands out to me is the Phoenix Hawk 4L.  Had one match where it showed off just how tough the thing could actually be and it proved surprisingly combat effective after being hit by two AC-20 shots.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #17 on: 12 October 2018, 02:15:44 »
The Raptor.

it is 25 tons and has tissue paper for armour, with an XL engine.

That said, 11.5t of weapons and good stock configs make it a very potent backstabber, and can hit very hard. I took out a solitaire with it (A config).

for something that was supposed to be a testbed and not live long, it is hellishly effective.

The Raptor has been a favorite of mine since...probably when TRO:3058 dropped. It has to many medium lasers to simply ignore, while other configs offer MRM or SRM spam on a budget.

For me, it was the Catapult. I'm not sure why I had never tried it before running one of the First Strike scenarios as I like LRM spam. The problem is that the cat is never run as an LRM boat. Sure, it starts out that way, but I swear that every game that I have used it in, the damn thing ends up kicking people left and right. The jumpjets should help it move away from the opposition, but it seems that they actually force the Catapult ever closer to the target. It's crazy..... :drool:

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #18 on: 12 October 2018, 04:14:36 »
The Crab, especially the Royal version. It's stupidly indestructible for a 50 ton 'Mech. I love that crazy little thing.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #19 on: 12 October 2018, 05:11:42 »
Jinggau.

I truly underestimated it, but it has always been a stellar MVP in my games - both playing for and against me :P

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #20 on: 12 October 2018, 09:10:49 »
The Raptor has been a favorite of mine since...probably when TRO:3058 dropped. It has to many medium lasers to simply ignore, while other configs offer MRM or SRM spam on a budget.

For me, it was the Catapult. I'm not sure why I had never tried it before running one of the First Strike scenarios as I like LRM spam. The problem is that the cat is never run as an LRM boat. Sure, it starts out that way, but I swear that every game that I have used it in, the damn thing ends up kicking people left and right. The jumpjets should help it move away from the opposition, but it seems that they actually force the Catapult ever closer to the target. It's crazy..... :drool:

Also a huge fan of the Raptor and the Dervish mentioned above.

The Catapult, while a good mech overall, doesn't really strike me as a good LRM boat with those shallow ammo bins. If your game allows you to refit or customize, that flaw is easily fixed by replacing either 2 heat sinks (preferred) or 2 medium lasers for 2 more tons of ammo. It is a good mech at wearing down a target with LRMs to finish them off with its Medium Lasers. Similar to how the Dervish above operates. Stay just behind the mainline mechs while emptying the LRM ammo bins, then push forward relieving those damaged mechs with your thinner but fresh armor.

Personally for me it is the Shadow Hawk 2D. If you can get your opponent to focus on other mechs this mech can cause a lot of havoc.
« Last Edit: 12 October 2018, 09:17:02 by Stormforge »
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #21 on: 12 October 2018, 09:45:16 »
MGL-T2 Mongrel. This thing turned out to be a beast. Especially since a couple of the opposing 'Mechs were packing lots of ATMs.

It's fast enough to backstab and has just enough firepower to open some holes (which the retractable blade seemed to find!).

Likewise. I completely underestimated it on paper, and then seeing it in action, I was sold.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #22 on: 12 October 2018, 09:50:46 »
The Catapult is not really a line combatant but a heavy hit and run 'Mech. Limited armor and ammo coupled with jump jets and heavy laser battery means it hits hard but can't stay around. The C4 variant is more of a long-range hit and run attacker as opposed to mixed range C1. For line combat, you'll want an Archer (heavy armor, more missiles).

For Introductory level games, the Catapult has just the right amount of missiles. It doesn't have terribly thick armor (but neither does its opposition usually) so limited ammo is a good thing (plus there's the ever present danger of ammo explosions in introductory games).

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #23 on: 12 October 2018, 09:59:22 »
The Daimyo-1K.  It's solid but uninspired, and I gave it little attention until I randomly ended up playing with one.

The game was Terran Corridor BattleTech MUSE.  Back then the best (only?) way to get multiplayer online mech on mech action was via the text-only telnet phenomenon that was then-popular.  No graphics, just plain text to work with.  And it was real-time, so when you called up a map rendered in ascii to show unit positions, you had to keep a head count to know where your and other mechs should be in the seconds subsequent to that. I drove my Daimyo in literal circles around an introtech Awesome, tearing it to pieces as it tried in vain to track and engage me with its PPCs.

Granted the game's play was highly unconventional compared to Boardgame Battletech (and one where I had the speed advantage to capitalize upon the "Circle of Death" technique that was OP in that format)... but the skirmish left me with a soft spot for the mech to this day.  It's all around good, if not exceptional.
« Last Edit: 12 October 2018, 10:02:53 by Tai Dai Cultist »

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #24 on: 12 October 2018, 10:49:31 »
The Clint, specifically the CLNT-2-3T.  Maybe it's luck or something, but I've never had one fail to kill at least its weight in enemy tonnage.  On paper it looks lackluster at best, but something about the design seems to work, at least for me.

I remember being pleasantly surprised the first time that I used the VND-1R Vindicator years upon years ago.  I thought it was too slow for a Medium, but it's just a badger that can take a beating and still dish out damage.

I'll echo the Raptor Omni.  I ended up with one in a brief MW 3rd Edition campaign and was pretty "Meh" about it. I had my sights set on a Raven (I was playing an EW expert), but didn't get it on the roll.  That "Meh" turned to joy when I realized just how much pod space I had to fill.  I was able to pod in all of the EW gear I wanted and still have a decent weapons loadout. 
« Last Edit: 12 October 2018, 22:46:11 by E. Icaza »
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #25 on: 12 October 2018, 11:11:46 »
I was surprised with the Sagitarre....but then again I didn't know what it was. It was as a world wide even and I went up to it close range with a some heavy mech, and got blown up in 1 turn with those pulse laser and TC. Liked that mech ever since
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #26 on: 12 October 2018, 16:38:15 »
Likewise. I completely underestimated it on paper, and then seeing it in action, I was sold.

It is the AC5. It puts people off. There are a few good Mechs in this list hiding behind an AC5.

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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #27 on: 12 October 2018, 19:20:23 »
Ha Otoko - Good team mech when paired up with some interceptors like a pair of Grand Dragons or Panthers.

Blackjack Omni - Never was a fan of this particular Mech, though the configs are good.  Saw a player use a full lance with mixed configs take down a balanced lance of Davion 3050 upgraded mediums (Centurions, Enforcer and something else).

LBX Urbie - Hard to play the range game against this design, and it's hard to rush in, too.

Striker - The old Star League predecessor to the Awesome, I got to play against one day, and the sucker took a beating. My goal was to get off the map, and I did, so it was left alive.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #28 on: 12 October 2018, 19:31:15 »
The Stalker. I know it's written up as a powerhouse but I've had crazy good results with it. I've never lost one in combat despite using it as often as I can. It constantly surprises me.

The Locust. It's raw speed in 3025 made it a threat. I've dropped assaults with one. And with the Total Warfare changes to how they take damage it's death to infantry.
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Re: Mechs That Surprised You
« Reply #29 on: 13 October 2018, 02:10:51 »
In a reverse surprise...the Thunderbolt.  On paper it's a good 'mech.  People swear by it in actual play.  I get creamed when I use it.  :-[

 

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