Author Topic: Armored Fighting Vehicles version M4 - are we going with that? Sure, man.  (Read 196881 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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I rather doubt that the tank was derivable afterword, either.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Liam's Ghost

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Provided this image hasn't been retouched, I wonder the magnitude of the injuries that resulted from this:



Depends, was the crew made up of Japanese schoolgirls?
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ColBosch

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I witnessed an Abrams-on-Abrams collision. It was at the kind of speed that would likely just result in dents to a car. One soldier suffered chronic injuries, everyone in both vehicles was hurt to some degree, and both tanks' drivetrains were badly damaged. The sound alone was horrifying.
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Kidd

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Same speed, 65 times the mass on each side

TIL Uran-9 was deployed in Syria, but the little murder-bot fell somewhat short of Kremlin expectations.



Quote
The Uran-9 unmanned ground vehicle, bristling with anti-tank missiles and all manner of high-caliber machine guns, was supposed to be a revolutionary combat asset for the Russian Ministry of Defense ever since officials confirmed the powerful robot tank saw testing in war-torn Syria back in March. As it turns out, rumors of its effectiveness have been greatly exaggerated.

In a surprisingly candid admission, Russian defense researcher Andrei P. Anisimov revealed several critical deficiencies in the Uran-9’s performance during its Syria tests at a Russian security conference in April — deficiencies that indicate, as Defence Blog put it, that the much-hyped robot tank “is not capable of performing the tasks assigned to it.”

How not capable is the Uran-9? Let’s take a gander:

Instead of an operational range of some 1.8 miles (or 2,800 meters), Anisimov claimed that the consistently sustainable range was just a mere 300 to 500 meters “in the conditions of the settlement with low-rise buildings,” per Defense Blog — meaning that the Uran-9 is more of a patrol cop than a suitable ground combat vehicle.

During the Syria tests, Russian defense officials recorded “17 cases of short-term (up to 1 min) and 2 cases of long (up to 1.5 hours) loss of Uran-9 control,” as Defence Blog put it. It’s unclear what “loss of control” means in this context, but it implies that the robot tank simply stopped working while downrange rather than, say, ran amok like the ED-209 in RoboCop. And this is to say nothing of the 30mm 2A72 autocannon that experienced frequent operational delays.

Like most new military tech, the Uran-9 breaks down like it’s nobody’s business — and not just the mechanical elements like the guiding rollers and suspension. According to Defence Blog, the “electro-optical” station that governs the vehicle’s target ID functions has a limit range of just 2 km. According to Defense Blog, the optical station “does not allow detecting optical observation and targeting devices of the enemy and gives out multiple interferences on the ground and in the airspace in the surveillance sector.”

Frankly, theses issues are unsurprising. As military researcher Sam Bendett observed for the U.S. Army’s Training and Doctrine Command, a May testing video of the Uran-9 in action likely hinted at some of the issues that cropped up during the downrange tests in Syria. But more importantly, the Uran-9’s failures can still prove instrumental and instructive for other unmanned ground vehicles — like, say, the Kalashnikov-produced BAS-01G Soratnik, or what T&P likes to call ‘Death Cab for Putin.’

Sounds almost like Battletech drone performance.

ColBosch

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I don't bother taking a grain of salt with Russia's military claims. My doctor told me to cut back. I mean, it literally never fails: Russia announces some new amazing bit of kit, a Certain Type of Poster gets all excited over it, and then it turns out the tech is flawed beyond usefulness - if it ever existed in the first place.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Or, like the Armata tank, it's SOOOO overpowering that they don't need to produce any more than 100 to dominate the battlefield forever.  (Yes, I've seen state media report very nearly exactly that)

re: that Abrams collision, well, there's a few reasons for that.  The obvious one is the sheer weight involved, the kinetic energy of a 72 ton Abrams in any direction at a whopping 15mph is just short of 1.5 megajoules.  The other part involved is force, aka mass times acceleration - in this case, acceleration in the opposite direction of travel.  Considering that an Abrams is arguably one of the best definitions of 'object with inelastic collision' and thinks 'crumple zones' are when people park illegally in tank lagers ... yeah, any acceleration or energy transfer is going to be on extremely short timeframes.  The force required to coax an Abrams to come to rest in 10 seconds is one thing; the force required to do the same in a tenth of a second is going to be brutal as hell.

Do hope those tankers weren't hurt too bad in the end, not surprised at all about the drivetrains.  Even as powerful as they are, a literal sudden stop like that is going to do terrible things.
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PsihoKekec

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Provided this image hasn't been retouched, I wonder the magnitude of the injuries that resulted from this:



Colorized version:
Shoot first, laugh later.

DoctorMonkey

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I witnessed an Abrams-on-Abrams collision. It was at the kind of speed that would likely just result in dents to a car. One soldier suffered chronic injuries, everyone in both vehicles was hurt to some degree, and both tanks' drivetrains were badly damaged. The sound alone was horrifying.


That sucks


It does feel as though the main danger to current top of the line MBTs is themselves


I have memories of hearing about an engineering variant Challenger 2 coming off a tank transport at a roundabout and suffering significant damage from its own weight and of course there is the Challenger 2 taken out by blue-on-blue early on in Iraq and another suffered some form of gunnery accident on a range causing serious injuries and deaths - recently in the news again as the coroner recently announced the result of their inquest (and I live close to the home of British armour so such things feature in local news more than they might national news)
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Dies Irae

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Quote


"This is a photograph of the SADE experiment using a Valentine tank fitted with 26 rockets, 13 each side in four containers, to see if it was possible to make a tank jump over large gaps and minefields. It did not work and never entered production." - tanks-encyclopedia.com

W
*not really, but I needed a hook



The attempt with a UC didn't lead to good outcomes either.
« Last Edit: 16 August 2018, 03:57:31 by Dies Irae »

Kidd

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The very best of Russia

Oh, and a tank or something


Sabelkatten

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That sucks


It does feel as though the main danger to current top of the line MBTs is themselves


I have memories of hearing about an engineering variant Challenger 2 coming off a tank transport at a roundabout and suffering significant damage from its own weight and of course there is the Challenger 2 taken out by blue-on-blue early on in Iraq and another suffered some form of gunnery accident on a range causing serious injuries and deaths - recently in the news again as the coroner recently announced the result of their inquest (and I live close to the home of British armour so such things feature in local news more than they might national news)
When my brother did his time in the army he saw the result of a Leo2 running into a big rock on a snow-covered field. The whole body ended up kind of rhomboid-shaped... And the crew wasn't fit for service for quite a while.

marauder648

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Meanwhile, this guy in this vid is still doing knees to chests and will be for the remainder of his career

https://imgur.com/gallery/pNhfeyI
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chanman

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The very best of Russia

Oh, and a tank or something



She's way too tall to be a tanker, at least in that machine

DoctorMonkey

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She's way too tall to be a tanker, at least in that machine


I suspect she would wear shorter heels for combat deployments


Meanwhile, this guy in this vid is still doing knees to chests and will be for the remainder of his career

https://imgur.com/gallery/pNhfeyI


Yep, that is amusing and it looks as though no one was hurt
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ColBosch

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Meanwhile, this guy in this vid is still doing knees to chests and will be for the remainder of his career

https://imgur.com/gallery/pNhfeyI

Just use the APC to flip the wrecker back over.
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Cannonshop

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Outriggers-not just for show.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Cache

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Outriggers-not just for show.
Parking brakes as well.

marauder648

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Just use the APC to flip the wrecker back over.

*Sargent Major screaming intensifies*
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beachhead1985

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I love it.
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VhenRa

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Unmanned turrets are pretty new. The Brad was designed in the late '70s into the '80s before those became a thing. Some Strykers are getting unmanned turrets. Maybe the Army is holding off until they decide what the Brad successor will be...

Damon.

Technically, what the Strykers are getting aren't turrets in the traditional sense. They are oversized remote weapon mounts. They don't extend into the vehicle, just being bolted onto the exterior.

ColBosch

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*Sargent Major screaming intensifies*

I once saw a Sergeant-Major dress down a First Sergeant. Locked him in parade rest and circled him like a vulture, yelling the whole time. It was a beautiful sight.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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Dave Talley

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I once saw a Sergeant-Major dress down a First Sergeant. Locked him in parade rest and circled him like a vulture, yelling the whole time. It was a beautiful sight.


 here we see the Sergeant-Major in his natural environment, where he is the alpha, he is no ones prey......
end David Attenborough voice
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ANS Kamas P81

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Five bucks says that First Sergeant was taking notes for what to say when he grows up to be a Sergeant-Major.  "And now we see the young being taught how to survive by their elders, play fighting and domination games that will serve the pup well in their life"
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
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Charlie 6

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Five bucks says that First Sergeant was taking notes for what to say when he grows up to be a Sergeant-Major.  "And now we see the young being taught how to survive by their elders, play fighting and domination games that will serve the pup well in their life"
Or from another perspective, it's a bunch boot camp horseshit behavior that's simultaneously embarrassing and undermining to unit cohesion. I'd have recommended to the commander to give the sergeant major an administrative form to go find somewhere else to peddle that crap.  Don't need the troops thinking abuse of power is the way to solve problems.

I say that without any context to ColBosch's observeration...but I'm struggling to find a reason to justify it.

As I picture and in keeping with the theme of my counter-comment I offer an anti-armor picture.

ColBosch

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Or from another perspective, it's a bunch boot camp horseshit behavior that's simultaneously embarrassing and undermining to unit cohesion. I'd have recommended to the commander to give the sergeant major an administrative form to go find somewhere else to peddle that crap.  Don't need the troops thinking abuse of power is the way to solve problems.

I say that without any context to ColBosch's observeration...but I'm struggling to find a reason to justify it.

I actually agree with you. I fully recognize that it wasn't only an abusive show of power, it was also pure toxic masculinity at a time when my regiment was testing the waters with mixed sexes in a ground combat role. At the time I thought it was funny because "hey, look at that Top getting chewed out." Now I think it's funny because of how the 1SG was being calmly stoic in the face of a shrieking, preening CSM.

Ah, memories.

And nice Javelin.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
1st and 2nd Succession Wars are not happy times. - klarg1
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Cannonshop

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I actually agree with you. I fully recognize that it wasn't only an abusive show of power, it was also pure toxic masculinity at a time when my regiment was testing the waters with mixed sexes in a ground combat role. At the time I thought it was funny because "hey, look at that Top getting chewed out." Now I think it's funny because of how the 1SG was being calmly stoic in the face of a shrieking, preening CSM.

Ah, memories.

And nice Javelin.
I suspect the 1st Sgt was probably not only the better man, but maybe...right?
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Charlie 6

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I went "red" twice in my career.  That's the only way to describe the my perception of being so furious that I can't remember what I saw during the confrontation.  The first time, I "came to" to hear the US Army Master Sergeant asking the Special Forces Staff Sergeant I was yelling at, "what Army are you from?!?"  This guy (which is what he said to piss me off) was an utter piece of garbage that his leaders and peers were thrilled to discover he'd been disrespectful to someone outside his chain of command.  That way they could get additional written documentation against him.  The second time was after I discovered one of my howitzer prime mover drivers was hiding a found RPG round behind his seat to take home with him.  The second numbnut was just that: stupid. In and of itself, I didn't care he was dumb but the fact he could have hurt his family (a new father) or his section mates sent me over the edge.

In both cases, I had confirmation after the fact that I was in the right but I sure felt stupid in the immediate aftermath.

Matti

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As I picture and in keeping with the theme of my counter-comment I offer an anti-armor picture.
Aren't those guys too close to each others? If 120 mm or bigger hits too close... Would single 100 mm HE be bad for the entire section?
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

ColBosch

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Aren't those guys too close to each others? If 120 mm or bigger hits too close... Would single 100 mm HE be bad for the entire section?

That's a training range. And believe it or not, but tank cannons suck for killing infantry. In a situation like that, where the driver is accelerating and juking like mad to try to dodge the missile - it probably won't work, but it's better than nothing - you are not going to be able to put a round on a bunch of guys who definitely ran off as soon as the Javelin cleared the tube. Fire-and-forget are scary to tankers.
BattleTech is a huge house, it's not any one fan's or "type" of fans.  If you need to relieve yourself, use the bathroom not another BattleTech fan. - nckestrel
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marauder648

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My last Sgt Major absolutely HATED me because I wasn't infantry.  Didn't help when I did my training for Iraq I shot better than half the company on the first time I used the SUSAT  on the SA-80 and I beat them all in the vehicle and equipment identification.

One of the guys in my company, carribiean lad kept going awol, always came back but he kept doing it.  And my WO2 who I am sure got aroused by charging people considering the number of charges he'd do a week, had something special for him.
Kid went AWOL before Iraq, and my Sgt Major wanted to charge him not with going AWOL but with Desertion.  And in the Army Act 1955 and Manual of Military Law, thats an entirely different animal to say the least and carries a far greater punishment, namely 6 months at Her Majesties pleasure in RMP Colchester and then out with a dishonourable discharge, good luck getting any employment after that.

But, we couldn't charge him with it.  We wasn't in a state of war and thus, no desertion, just AWOL.  Told my CSM this, got yelled at and told to go do it for desertion.  Went up to HQ, got new paperwork and one of my Sgt's (another Clerk) saw me and asked what I was doing, I explained and he came down with me and then had a blazing row with my CSM.
Ended out having to get the Regimental Admin Officer, all 5'2 of her to come down there and tell the CSM to stop being bloody stupid.

I'm glad I got out after Iraq.
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