Armored Fighting Vehicles version M4 - are we going with that? Sure, man.

[Fat Guy]

And the U.S. had the M901 Improved Tow Vehicle.



The tank killing M113.

[Ruger]

Ruger: I think I had one of those too!  :thumbsup:

I had many hours of enjoyment from mine...until it stopped taking commands.

Ruger

[Daryk]

I did too... pew pew pew!  :thumbsup:

[Elmoth]

And the U.S. had the M901 Improved Tow Vehicle.



The tank killing M113.

it looks like S.A.I.N.T. number 5 got bigger!

[worktroll]

Okay, not used in a conventional mass warfare scenario, but how effective were the TOW-equipped M113s considered? Were they more highly regarded than TOW-carrying jeeps? Would the missiles have performed as advertised in a hostile environment? Did the Israelis use any in their hot wars?

W.

[dgorsman]

... and compared to the LAV-carried version?

[Fat Guy]

They were a lot more survivable than a jeep because the hammerhead launcher allowed it to fire from behind cover, while the jeep had to be exposed. Also, the M901's armor provided protection from artillery fragments and small arms.


Then along came the Bradley which also had a two-tube TOW launcher at a similar height and the 901 became pretty redundant.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Bit of an odd question, what's the point in a US armor officer's career (Marines or Army, either works) where they'll spend less and less time actually commanding from a tank, and more and more time doing overall unit command from behind the lines?

[DoctorMonkey]

Bit of an odd question, what's the point in a US armor officer's career (Marines or Army, either works) where they'll spend less and less time actually commanding from a tank, and more and more time doing overall unit command from behind the lines?

This is a guess but I'd say the transition from company (squadron in Commonwealth terminology, troop in US cavalry terminology) to battalion (regiment in Commonwealth terminology or squadron in US cavalry terminology)

[Daryk]

Captain (O-3) is generally recognized as the highest rank that can expect to regularly lead from the front in combat.  Majors should be doing the staff work for the higher ranks to get those Captains where they need to be, when they need to be there.

[DoctorMonkey]

Captain (O-3) is generally recognized as the highest rank that can expect to regularly lead from the front in combat.  Majors should be doing the staff work for the higher ranks to get those Captains where they need to be, when they need to be there.

Elsewhere, a company/squadron officer commanding would be a Major though, it is an interesting "quirk" that at some point there was a drift among some militaries to give company command to Majors versus Captains

[Daryk]

I think any venture into trying to explain that drift would involve Rule 4, and recommend against it.

[ANS Kamas P81]

So I suppose, if you want to be the James T. Kirk of your tank and always stay in command, never let them kick you past Major and preferably past Captain if at all possible.  "Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the seat of that tank."

Which for any real military means you've gotta really work your time in grade to maximums and then look really rosy for promotion...and do the bare minimum to not get RIFed and hold on to that captain's rank as long as possible.

Anyway, just curious, thanks gang!

[chanman]

So I suppose, if you want to be the James T. Kirk of your tank and always stay in command, never let them kick you past Major and preferably past Captain if at all possible.  "Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the seat of that tank."

Which for any real military means you've gotta really work your time in grade to maximums and then look really rosy for promotion...and do the bare minimum to not get RIFed and hold on to that captain's rank as long as possible.

Anyway, just curious, thanks gang!

I'm not sure that's actually feasible for commissioned officers. Militaries generally take an up-or-out career approach to both cycle fresh blood in and to spread command experience around (filling the team bench, so to speak). If you want to do the same thing for 20 years, the appropriate track would be grizzled NCO  :D

[Daryk]

I believe the USAF has a track for pilots where they can keep flying for 20 years, but they're pretty much stuck at Major.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Reading Every Man A Tiger, Chuck Horner at least was still driving Vipers as a general, prior to the Gulf War.  The book opens with his getting the news of the invasion mid-flight, actually.

I'm not sure that's actually feasible for commissioned officers. Militaries generally take an up-or-out career approach to both cycle fresh blood in and to spread command experience around (filling the team bench, so to speak). If you want to do the same thing for 20 years, the appropriate track would be grizzled NCO  :D

And quite true, hence my comment about not getting RIF'ed...and keeping just enough command time in.  Then again not every officer stays in for life...maybe if someone got a job as a major to transfer to a training command for a while.  For the US, say, over at Fort Irwin...but they'd have to be a REALLY crack tanker for something like that I imagine.

So a major would stand to have at least SOME track time, and still be doing things with their favorite ride rather than deskjobbing so much.  But not much, I suppose...get the promotion to major, then let your commission end and begin to exit at that point.

[BairdEC]

Don't forget that a naval captain is generally the equivalent of an army colonel.  It's easier to stay at a higher rank.

[Daryk]

Commands in the Navy are fewer and farther between than the ground Services.  Most Navy officers can expect command of one ship at the O-5 level, and one at the O-6 level.  Aviators can command a squadron at O-5, and a Carrier Airwing at O-6.  From there, it's possible to move to a Destroyer or Submarine Squadron for officers in those specialties.  A few very lucky ones get command at O-4 (Minesweepers), and even fewer EXTEMELY lucky ones might get command at O-3 (the LCSs).  At 1-2 Star level, you're looking at a Carrier Strike Group or Submarine Group.  3-Stars have the Numbered Fleet Commands.

[CDAT]

Not a likely path, but theoretical could happen depending on when you joined (some of the positions were downgraded at later times). And yes the higher you get the less time that you would spend on the tanks, more in a office but would keep you on the tanks.
2nd Lt. Armor Platoon Leader
1st Lt. Armor Company Executive Officer
Cpt. Armor Company Commander
Maj. Armor Battalion S-3 (still has a tank)
LTC. Armor Battalion Command (still has a tank)
COL. Brigade Executive Officer (my first BDE had one Brad, and one M1 for the XO and Commander, normally one was Inf and one was Armor.)
Brigadier Gen. Brigade Commanding Officer (again see above, my first brigade was commanded by a Brigade when I first got there, later was down graded to a COL position.)
Major Gen. Division Commanding Officer (No idea how much time he spent on it, but he had one.)

[marauder648]

[Deadborder]

What is that? The dual cannon mount on the back looks like it's not meant to be there.

[Kidd]

Looks like an MTLB with a ZSU tacked on top

[kato]

MT-LB armored personnel carrier with a ZU-23-2 mounted on the back. Pretty common conversion. Iraq had them regular, Russia introduced them a bit adhoc in the early 90s, Poland had some prototypes. That one in the picture above seems to be Ukrainian.



This one shows presumably Chechen troops at some point before December 1994 (unless it's from around 1991, and it's Soviet troops - but i doubt that).

[Feenix74]

I believe the USAF has a track for pilots where they can keep flying for 20 years, but they're pretty much stuck at Major.

I believe that is correct. RAAF has a similar program for pilots who want to keep their hands on the stick. If my memory serves me correctly they forgo promotion above Flight Lieutenant but get an extended payscale to compensate. It allows the air force to keep experienced pilots who can teach airmanship to the next generation.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Ah, the MTLB pancake, the forgotten cousin of the BMP.  It's a neat and LOW profile little thing, amphibious, and decent as far as capability and variants go.

[Kidd]

BMP gets all the attention but the MTLB is the real Soviet workhorse. IINM it's the most numerous Red Cold War AFV produced, counting variants.

[ANS Kamas P81]

And the variants were pretty impressive, from that AA gun carrier (which likely would have done wonders for infantry fire support, but I'd really like a gun shield at least!) to radar carriers to SAM launchers to prime movers for artillery and other stuff.  They're also squat little things - 9'5" wide, and only 6'1" tall.  Even the "small" and "low profile" T-72's still fifteen inches taller than that; it'd make a great cavalry scout and could hide darn near anywhere.  Not to mention fully amphibious, and easy to drive - there's places in Russia where they sell rides in the thing and will even let you behind the "wheel" as it were.  One of my favorite support vehicles as far as military stuff goes.

Also belatedly:

Not a likely path, but theoretical could happen depending on when you joined (some of the positions were downgraded at later times). And yes the higher you get the less time that you would spend on the tanks, more in a office but would keep you on the tanks.

Good to note.  I suppose getting out as a Captain would be the best, though looking over the US Army pay grades it's about a 10 percent bump going to Major...and you're still gonna be spending most of your time doing tank things, even if you're teaching others at the time.  I suppose that might be the sweet spot for departing, balancing good pay and future opportunity vs tank time and doing what you'd WANT to do.  I suppose twelve years, three four-year obligations should be more than enough to hit O-3.  Or do you get more flexibility in your re-up schedule after you're in?

[PsihoKekec]

there's places in Russia where they sell rides in the thing and will even let you behind the "wheel" as it were.

And then some jackass steals it for alcohol shop run

[ANS Kamas P81]

I guess MTLB stands for Miller Time! Light Beer.

[Weirdo]

Can the amount of Miller Light required to achieve that level of driving (lack of)skill even fit in that APC?