The AC/2... why use it?

[Weirdo]

Yes, that's absolutely what you want to do.  Encourage them to take one of the least popular units in the game, then screw them over when they do.  That'll learn 'em.  I'm sure they won't stick to medium laser boats after that.

People say that the most common missions for AC/2 units would be boring...but they complain when the mission turns interesting? For that matter, what's the point of playing a Battletech scenario if they're not fighting for their lives?

That's approximately the issue people have with taking AC/2s already: if you're going to be brawling seriousface enemy opposition, there are usually better weapons to field.

Who said anything about brawling?

[Apocal]

Who said anything about brawling?

???

You did...

Little do they know that they're going to show up at the same time as an enemy patrol, and very quickly destroying the objective is probably a bust, and 'taking a minimum of damage' can now be more accurately described as 'getting out alive in any condition at all'.

See how much mileage they can get out of a Jagermech or Vulcan then...  >:D

I'm not exactly using precise terminology here, but c'mon. Describing a situation where mechs are getting torn up as "brawling" isn't stretching the definition too much.

[Weirdo]

Brawl implies close-range combat. In this scenario, I would advise you give your players the option of staying at range, where their light cannons are most effective. Scenarios should be a challenge, not a deathtrap.

[Kovax]

I'd be more tempted to throw a pile of Hetzers, SRM Carriers, and LRM Carriers at a player group that chose to go with an over-optimized force designed strictly to fight other 'Mechs in a phone-booth.  The guy who took the AC/2 would probably be a hero (taking stuff out of the fight before it ever got in range to fire back), and the player with the fast Light 'Mech or hovertank would likely be able to go after the LRM carriers or dash into spots where all of those forward-facing big guns can't shoot, while the guy with the Victor or Hunchback who normally gets all the kills would be all-but useless without advancing directly into the teeth of all that short-ranged firepower.

There are reasons why countries before and during WWII didn't build an all-Battleship fleet, and chose to produce cruisers and destroyers as the majority of their naval forces.  There were a few time when those top-of-the-line capital ships were needed to take on something of similar firepower, but MOST of the time, a smaller and cheaper ship was more than sufficient for the task.  Most BattleTech games end up as the equivalent of those rare BB versus BB slugfests, ignoring the reality that more than 90% of the forces involved in actual battles were NOT Battleships.

In other words, Heavy and Assault 'Mechs should be the exceptions, not the norm.  Most battles should involve Medium 'Mechs, with an occasional Heavy plus varying proportions of Light designs.  Any time Assaults come into play, it should be in relatively small groups participating in a much larger assault, consisting mainly of Heavy and Medium 'Mechs, and possibly waves of vehicles and infantry, depending on the situation.  A lone Heavy/Assault lance operating independently would be a real rarity.

That means, your main opponents would typically be vehicles and infantry, or Light and Medium 'Mechs, and AC/2s are not terrible in those situations.  In the heavily optimized metagame of fights to the death on a couple of mapsheets that fit comfortably on a tabletop, they frequently ARE terrible.

[Matti]

In other words, Heavy and Assault 'Mechs should be the exceptions, not the norm.

Do you know what kind of 'Mechs are in Tyr Regiment, Davion Assault Guard, and Wolf's Dragoons Zeta Battalion? Do you know percentages of 'Mech weight classes of the Lyran Commonwealth Armed Forces in 3025? With that said, "There is still a place for lighter equipment, like Banshee and Zeus"

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The Battleship analogy carries even further than was already expounded upon upthread.

Clashes between assault mechs was exceedingly rare in the Succession Wars era for the same primary reason clashes between battleships were: you generally only commit the capital assets to fights you already knew you were going to win anyway.  If the fight's outcome is in question, it's not worth risking them.  Until such time the more expendable assets make it clear you're going to win... then you mop up with the heavy guns and armor.

For every Battle of the Jutland, you have hundreds of skirmishes between smaller elements. Medium mech pilots see a lot more action than the pampered assault drivers.

[massey]

People say that the most common missions for AC/2 units would be boring...but they complain when the mission turns interesting? For that matter, what's the point of playing a Battletech scenario if they're not fighting for their lives?

You want your players to come back right?  You're asking players to take what they consider sub-optimal weapons, saying "oh it'll be really useful in this scenario!" and then punishing them when they listen to you.  It's bait and switch.

A better solution is to set up a game where players have an advantage by taking the AC-2.  Let's say the enemy has a group of Warrior helicopters.  This unit will harass your players' mechs before the battle begins (as they march towards the objective).  If they don't have an AC-2, they take 8 or 10 hits each before the Warriors run out of ammo and have to leave.  With an AC-2, they can respond effectively and the Warriors break off the attack.

Niche weapons let you avoid cheap shots and rock/paper/scissors tactics by your enemy.  A company that has a light mech lance doesn't have to worry about artillery barrages (the lights can close the range fast enough to destroy the artillery).  A unit with a Rifleman scares off those pesky Mechbusters.  By taking these specialized units, you're able to avoid a lot of the "wandering damage" that you'd otherwise encounter.  This isn't even something that needs to have dice rolls attached (though you could, just to give the player in question a little more stuff to do, to feel more actively involved).  The enemy should avoid engaging you if they see you have the appropriate counter to their cheap shot.  Infantry will run and hide if they see a Firestarter.  They don't calculate and say "hey some of us might survive this, we should try and take him down".

[Sartris]

You want your players to come back right?  You're asking players to take what they consider sub-optimal weapons, saying "oh it'll be really useful in this scenario!" and then punishing them when they listen to you.  It's bait and switch.

A better solution is to set up a game where players have an advantage by taking the AC-2.  Let's say the enemy has a group of Warrior helicopters.  This unit will harass your players' mechs before the battle begins (as they march towards the objective).  If they don't have an AC-2, they take 8 or 10 hits each before the Warriors run out of ammo and have to leave.  With an AC-2, they can respond effectively and the Warriors break off the attack.

Niche weapons let you avoid cheap shots and rock/paper/scissors tactics by your enemy.  A company that has a light mech lance doesn't have to worry about artillery barrages (the lights can close the range fast enough to destroy the artillery).  A unit with a Rifleman scares off those pesky Mechbusters.  By taking these specialized units, you're able to avoid a lot of the "wandering damage" that you'd otherwise encounter.

i did a similar thing with a towed thumper once. the players could either go capture the artillery in a side mission or just directly assault the objective. they chose the former and a drifting shell hit a fuel tank in the base destroying half the defenders before they could scramble to their vehicles

[Weirdo]

You want your players to come back right?  You're asking players to take what they consider sub-optimal weapons, saying "oh it'll be really useful in this scenario!" and then punishing them when they listen to you.  It's bait and switch.

I agree, which is why whenever I actually put the finishing touches on that scenario that i came up with in the span of ten seconds, both the initial defenders and the surprise patrol would be tailored so that the cannons stay useful. I'm not talking about throwing Marauders at them or similar jerk moves, of course not. The trick is to keep the AC/2s useful, but challenge the players, force them to think, make them figure out HOW to make the cannons useful.

Another scenario idea might be to put the players in control of an AA lance consisting of two Jagermechs and two close-range escorts versus some sort of headhunter lance.

[Colt Ward]

I agree, which is why whenever I actually put the finishing touches on that scenario that i came up with in the span of ten seconds, both the initial defenders and the surprise patrol would be tailored so that the cannons stay useful. I'm not talking about throwing Marauders at them or similar jerk moves, of course not. The trick is to keep the AC/2s useful, but challenge the players, force them to think, make them figure out HOW to make the cannons useful.

Another scenario idea might be to put the players in control of an AA lance consisting of two Jagermechs and two close-range escorts versus some sort of headhunter lance.

Play keep away with the Jagers as they 'engage' ASF/CF/SC trying to provide CAS against your opponents?  That could be interesting . . .

[Atarlost]

The worst thing about AC-2s is that most of the units they're on are bad independent of the AC-2s. 

The Vulcan is role confused.  It's faster than it needs to be for anti-infantry work and its AC-2 is nigh useless in that role, but as a skirmisher it's wasting two and a half tons on anti-infantry tools it will never need because there's no infantry it can't avoid. 

The Jagermech is a pile of trash now that flak has been errataed to use the cluster table as AC-5s have lost their niche of thresholding light ASF and the AC-2s are now the only thing about it that has any point at all in any role. 

The Sentinel (SNT-1S) has 12 heatsinks while only being capable of producing 7 heat. 

The Clint's problem is actually the AC-2s, but at least half the reason they're a problem is that it tries to put two of them on a 40 ton mech that isn't ridiculously slow for its weight. 

On the other hand most AC-5 mechs would in my opinion be bettered by swapping AC-5s for AC-2s on a one to one basis to free up tonnage for shoring up their weaknesses. 

Brawl implies close-range combat. In this scenario, I would advise you give your players the option of staying at range, where their light cannons are most effective. Scenarios should be a challenge, not a deathtrap.

You suggested the inevitability of close-range combat when you suggested people might use a Jagermech for the mission.  4/6 does not lend itself to staying at range unless you're fighting Urbanmechs or Annihilators. 

The Battleship analogy carries even further than was already expounded upon upthread.

Clashes between assault mechs was exceedingly rare in the Succession Wars era for the same primary reason clashes between battleships were: you generally only commit the capital assets to fights you already knew you were going to win anyway.  If the fight's outcome is in question, it's not worth risking them.  Until such time the more expendable assets make it clear you're going to win... then you mop up with the heavy guns and armor.

For every Battle of the Jutland, you have hundreds of skirmishes between smaller elements. Medium mech pilots see a lot more action than the pampered assault drivers.

But the discussion isn't about assault vs medium, it's about meta vs off-meta.  A Jagermech is not a medium or light mech.  It has to compete with the big boys.  And at its price point it's a failmech.  A Panther is bad because it's a light mech, but lots of other light mechs aren't bad for being light mechs because they actually take advantage of the speed available to light mechs rather than taking a movement profile that disqualifies them from the jobs other light mechs do and forces them to compete with heavies. 

[Easy]

cleanup

[massey]

Maybe a habit of insisting on one map examples is partly liable for the AC/2s thin mission profile book.

Is there some regular, decidable mission in which the AC/2 is always going to be in demand? Anti-VTOL, ASF, Infantry. Check. DO we ^need* to assume 'conventionals', or support forces? No. But let's assume a random selection of tanks on the board, just for kicks. Also, 3025. Now...

Where is it written that we must always prefer the longest range weapons, on average? Is it a LRM, is it a PPC, is it an AC/2. These are the three guns we plink with. These are the three guns we give to the sharpshooters, even if the rest of the 'Mech is only so-so. Because these are the ones who are giving us the best 'bang for the buck', which is actual points of damage inflicted.

The AC/2 fan theory is to hit the PPC 'Mech it duels with at least 5 times for every time the PPC hits. Or better, hit it with two of 4 AC/2s at once. Maybe I'm making an assumption based on MWO. If a 'Mech is charging four AC/2s, it better get there in a hurry, *Especially* if 4xAC/2s can settle down and aim precisely..

Conversely, our WHM, for instance, will, ton for ton, shred a heavy AC/2 'Mech in melee. It's designed to do that. Two for two, now, 8 AC/2s with 1-3 free turns might just be able to drop a WHM and still tank a few PPCs until the second one is down.

Mind, you, my scenario is based on my foggy notion, a product of 15 different video games, and a couple decades.
 So, for me, an obvious question is, am I trying to apply an abstract value, like, reach farther, against worst case scenarios in order to justify putting a specialist pilot in it, which I may not have a firm mental grasp of until I start trying to pay Alpha Strike points on it, in order to really jazz up my AC/2 'Mech

Depending on which rule set you use, the AC-2 may be able to fire faster than 1 shot per turn.  The previously mentioned Solaris VII Dueling Rules broke the standard Battletech turn down into 4 smaller turns (each one with a movement, firing, and heat phase).  Consider it to be pushing your mech to its absolute limit, because you're not on the battlefield, you just have to beat the other guy and then the match is over.  The AC-2 could fire every turn, whereas the PPC could only fire every 3 or 4 turns.  So at the basic Battletech level of abstraction, the PPC is great.  It can only fire once every 10 seconds anyway.  But the AC-2 is leaving a lot of utility out there, you aren't getting your full value out of it.

If you could fire it 4 times (and generate 4 times as much heat), it suddenly becomes a 24 hex range SRM-4, which is pretty good.

[Sharpnel]

On the other hand most AC-5 mechs would in my opinion be bettered by swapping AC-5s for AC-2s on a one to one basis to free up tonnage for shoring up their weaknesses. 

I do this with the SHD-2H Shadow Hawk. Swap the AC5 for the AC2 and then add 2 jump jets and another medium laser. It's a sniper that cna defend itself up close if necessary.

[guardiandashi]

Depending on which rule set you use, the AC-2 may be able to fire faster than 1 shot per turn.  The previously mentioned Solaris VII Dueling Rules broke the standard Battletech turn down into 4 smaller turns (each one with a movement, firing, and heat phase).  Consider it to be pushing your mech to its absolute limit, because you're not on the battlefield, you just have to beat the other guy and then the match is over.  The AC-2 could fire every turn, whereas the PPC could only fire every 3 or 4 turns.  So at the basic Battletech level of abstraction, the PPC is great.  It can only fire once every 10 seconds anyway.  But the AC-2 is leaving a lot of utility out there, you aren't getting your full value out of it.

If you could fire it 4 times (and generate 4 times as much heat), it suddenly becomes a 24 hex range SRM-4, which is pretty good.

actually if using the solaris 7 boxed set dueling rules the ac2 would technically be an AC 8 (that fires 4x) or as mentioned a really long range ballistic srm4 and would produce 4 heat to do so.
the ac5 would actually work more like a ultra 5 (sort of) which actually makes it perform more like a ppc just doing its hits in 5 point clusters

IS SRMS also have a delay of 1 so they can fire 2x per 10 second round, but lrms have a delay of 2 so they can safely fire every 3/4 of a standard battletech round, meaning in 30 seconds they can fire 4x

another point that makes clan equipment even more brutal is according to the reaches the clan weapons typically have a delay 1 lower than their IS counterparts, meaning that clan lrms have a delay of 1, and srms have a delay of 0

so the Dashi I had that had 5 streak srm 4's and 1 ton of ammo could (in theory) empty its srm ammo in 10 seconds of firing.

[massey]

actually if using the solaris 7 boxed set dueling rules the ac2 would technically be an AC 8 (that fires 4x) or as mentioned a really long range ballistic srm4 and would produce 4 heat to do so.
the ac5 would actually work more like a ultra 5 (sort of) which actually makes it perform more like a ppc just doing its hits in 5 point clusters

IS SRMS also have a delay of 1 so they can fire 2x per 10 second round, but lrms have a delay of 2 so they can safely fire every 3/4 of a standard battletech round, meaning in 30 seconds they can fire 4x

another point that makes clan equipment even more brutal is according to the reaches the clan weapons typically have a delay 1 lower than their IS counterparts, meaning that clan lrms have a delay of 1, and srms have a delay of 0

so the Dashi I had that had 5 streak srm 4's and 1 ton of ammo could (in theory) empty its srm ammo in 10 seconds of firing.

My general philosophy on mechs (and vehicles and other stuff) is that if a unit has a clear and obvious use under one of the various rule systems, then that's probably what we should go with.  A mech that is oversinked, like the Shadow Hawk, maybe was intended to be pushed to its limits a bit more than something like the Griffin or Wolverine.  The understanding being that you're just supposed to hold down that trigger on the AC-5 and not let up.

Mechs that everybody really likes, such as the Thug or the Thunderbolt, may not ride the heat curve nearly so well if they were playing under the Solaris rules.  How that translates to the "real life" of Battletech warfare I'm not really sure.  Then you've got higher levels of abstraction like Alpha Strike or Battleforce, where maybe heat doesn't matter at all.  It's all just a simulation of what is supposed to be happening, and each version of the game operates under different basic assumptions.

So I end up with the feeling that the AC-2 is supposed to be used in relatively short bursts, but if you don't mind voiding the manufacturer's warranty, you can fire the hell out of it and actually do pretty good damage.

[RifleMech]

But the discussion isn't about assault vs medium, it's about meta vs off-meta.  A Jagermech is not a medium or light mech.  It has to compete with the big boys.  And at its price point it's a failmech.  A Panther is bad because it's a light mech, but lots of other light mechs aren't bad for being light mechs because they actually take advantage of the speed available to light mechs rather than taking a movement profile that disqualifies them from the jobs other light mechs do and forces them to compete with heavies.

The Panther isn't bad. It's intended to kill light mechs without having to purchase heavier units. 

[The_Caveman]

The Panther isn't bad. It's intended to kill light mechs without having to purchase heavier units.

It's a full-featured BattleMech that costs the same as a Rommel tank. On a lot of planets it's all the 'Mech you need. It will outmaneuver all but the lightest and weakest vehicles in any kind of broken terrain, and c-bill for c-bill a lance of Panthers is nothing to sneeze at. You can't buy two Warhammers for the price of four Panthers.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

It's a full-featured BattleMech that costs the same as a Rommel tank. On a lot of planets it's all the 'Mech you need. It will outmaneuver all but the lightest and weakest vehicles in any kind of broken terrain, and c-bill for c-bill a lance of Panthers is nothing to sneeze at. You can't buy two Warhammers for the price of four Panthers.

Totally.  Panthers are the T-55s of the BTU.  The cheapest heavy mech around... and quantity is a quality!

[Daryk]

If only the Panther were a Liao 'mech, the metaphor would be complete...  ;D

[RifleMech]

It's a full-featured BattleMech that costs the same as a Rommel tank. On a lot of planets it's all the 'Mech you need. It will outmaneuver all but the lightest and weakest vehicles in any kind of broken terrain, and c-bill for c-bill a lance of Panthers is nothing to sneeze at. You can't buy two Warhammers for the price of four Panthers.

Exactly! :thumbsup:  Just because it's light doesn't make it bad.

[Sartris]

If only the Panther were a Liao 'mech, the metaphor would be complete...  ;D

They did their best with the vindicator

[Matti]

My general philosophy on mechs (and vehicles and other stuff) is that if a unit has a clear and obvious use under one of the various rule systems, then that's probably what we should go with.  A mech that is oversinked, like the Shadow Hawk, maybe was intended to be pushed to its limits a bit more than something like the Griffin or Wolverine.  The understanding being that you're just supposed to hold down that trigger on the AC-5 and not let up.

"Shoot it until it glows, and if need be, until it explodes." Tactical Operations (and Maximum Tech before that) has a rule that allows ACs to fire twice per turn. On roll of 3 it jams, and on 2 it explodes. And of course there is double heat. What do you think of Jagermech now? Or AC/2 Carrier, Pike, and Partisan for that matter? WVR-6R is pretty oversinked too and can easily afford rapid fire with AC/5. Just remember to load them with flak if you mean to use them against aircraft. Speaking about which, even if RFL-3N has flak for its autocannons, it can still put up a good fight against ground targets with the lasers.

Machine guns have a burst fire rule (also in TacOps), which makes MG fire random number of times for random heat and ammo expenditure. Makes LCT-1V and STG-3R (and many vehicles) bit more useful, right?

Somebody already covered arguments against Panther. 1 more: load them on DropShip as cargo. Strip off 8 'Mech Bays from Union, keep 4 bays for 'Mech maintenance and orbital dropping, and 'Ship can carry whole battalion of Panthers and other light 'Mechs.

[Kovax]

The PPC seems like a far superior weapon to the AC/2:
PPC = 10 damage out to 18 hexes, for 7 tons, 10 heat, and 3 critical slots.
AC/2 = a mere 2 damage out to 24 hexes, for 6 tons plus 1 for ammo, 1 heat, and 2 critical slots (one of those for ammo)

You can only put 1 AC/2 into a chassis for the same tonnage as a PPC, and it only does 1/5th the damage.

On the other hand, the PPC requires 10 heatsinks versus 1 for the AC/2, and if you have to add the heatsinks (such as on an ICE powered vehicle or chassis with other heat-building weapons), that jumps up to 17 tons to actually USE the weapon effectively.  Then you figure the power amplifiers you need to convert power for a PPC on an ICE vehicle, and that adds a few more tons, to the point where you could get 3 AC/2s instead, or in many cases simply can't put the PPC on the vehicle at all without resorting to a fusion engine.  If the target is 19-24 hexes away, the PPC is useless.  At high to-hit numbers against ranged targets (particularly VTOLs and hovertanks), the AC/2 may be in a shorter range band, increasing its odds of hitting the target at all, and a 2 point shot that hits and causes a motive critical is far more effective than a 10 point shot that misses.

On a 'Mech, it's a niche weapon, typically only useful against ASFs, vehicles, infantry in the open, or for slowly degrading fixed fortifications.  It's also a viable SECOND ranged weapon for a 'Mech or fusion-powered vehicle that's already making use of its 10 "free" heatsinks (I'd gladly swap an AC/5 on a Marauder for an AC/2 and some extra heatsinks).  On an ICE vehicle, it's a very viable weapon alternative in general, although of only limited utility against BattleMechs.

In a company-plus sized 3025 force, I'd prefer to have at least one AC/2 available.  I'd much rather have a LOT of LRMs or PPCs than a LOT of AC/2s, though.  The Marik designs post-Jihad have the same problem with the LGR as I would want to avoid with the AC/2: far too widespread use of a relatively specialized weapon, yet the LGR is a "good" weapon to have, at least in small numbers.  If you can make use of that specialty, it's valuable.  If you're using it as a general-purpose weapon, it's simply not tonnage-efficient for the damage it delivers.

[Sartris]

Tacops double fire jams on a 4 and explodes on a 2

[massey]

The PPC seems like a far superior weapon to the AC/2:
PPC = 10 damage out to 18 hexes, for 7 tons, 10 heat, and 3 critical slots.
AC/2 = a mere 2 damage out to 24 hexes, for 6 tons plus 1 for ammo, 1 heat, and 2 critical slots (one of those for ammo)

You can only put 1 AC/2 into a chassis for the same tonnage as a PPC, and it only does 1/5th the damage.

On the other hand, the PPC requires 10 heatsinks versus 1 for the AC/2, and if you have to add the heatsinks (such as on an ICE powered vehicle or chassis with other heat-building weapons), that jumps up to 17 tons to actually USE the weapon effectively.  Then you figure the power amplifiers you need to convert power for a PPC on an ICE vehicle, and that adds a few more tons, to the point where you could get 3 AC/2s instead, or in many cases simply can't put the PPC on the vehicle at all without resorting to a fusion engine.  If the target is 19-24 hexes away, the PPC is useless.  At high to-hit numbers against ranged targets (particularly VTOLs and hovertanks), the AC/2 may be in a shorter range band, increasing its odds of hitting the target at all, and a 2 point shot that hits and causes a motive critical is far more effective than a 10 point shot that misses.

On a 'Mech, it's a niche weapon, typically only useful against ASFs, vehicles, infantry in the open, or for slowly degrading fixed fortifications.  It's also a viable SECOND ranged weapon for a 'Mech or fusion-powered vehicle that's already making use of its 10 "free" heatsinks (I'd gladly swap an AC/5 on a Marauder for an AC/2 and some extra heatsinks).  On an ICE vehicle, it's a very viable weapon alternative in general, although of only limited utility against BattleMechs.

In a company-plus sized 3025 force, I'd prefer to have at least one AC/2 available.  I'd much rather have a LOT of LRMs or PPCs than a LOT of AC/2s, though.  The Marik designs post-Jihad have the same problem with the LGR as I would want to avoid with the AC/2: far too widespread use of a relatively specialized weapon, yet the LGR is a "good" weapon to have, at least in small numbers.  If you can make use of that specialty, it's valuable.  If you're using it as a general-purpose weapon, it's simply not tonnage-efficient for the damage it delivers.

Good summary.

With the Marik designs and the Light Gauss Rifle, I prefer to think that they're adding small numbers of these mechs to existing forces.  So yeah, the Light Gauss is a nice thing to have, but you probably wouldn't want to build a force around it.  But even though a lot of new mechs would be carrying them, as a percentage it's still a pretty small number.  Most mechs in the 3060 era are probably upgraded 3025 designs.

[Matti]

Tacops double fire jams on a 4 and explodes on a 2

Thanks for correction. Teaches me to check the rule instead going by memory.

[Colt Ward]

When I pit militia forces against Clans, regulars or my mercs on MM its an option I have in play and generally expect Scorpions & Vedettes to be double tapping.  It makes them more dangerous even with the chance of blowing up.

With that said, I had a Hunchback 4G on a 3025 server that went toe to toe with a Atlas . . . it missed with its AC/20.  My Hunchback hit with both shots . . . to the same location- the AC ammo.  Pilot of that Hunchback was the luckiest guy around . . . he had already been mixing it up with a medium that he put down, a Scorpion and a Locust tried to make a speed pass.  Clipped the leg on the Locust with the AC/20 when he needed a 10 to hit.  The Atlas was his 5th or 6th kill in two big battles.

[AdmiralObvious]

Thanks for correction. Teaches me to check the rule instead going by memory.

Yeah I've made quite a few similar mistakes recently as well.

I was going to say something, but it's already been said, so never mind.

You obviously could just not cool the PPC immediately, since the PPC builds up 10 heat. Basically every Mech has a minimum of 10 heatsinks. The difference would pretty much only mean that the AC is constantly plinking, while the PPC might need to be staggered, though depending on the speeds of the combatants, and if you use extreme range (and possibly LOS) rules, this can make the PPC vastly inferior to the AC.

[Dave Talley]

for giggles I ran the Jager thru MML

reduce speed to 3/5/3
3 AC2 in left arm, one ton ammo
5 LRM 5 in right arm, 2 tons ammo
medium lasers go to head and CT
one JJ in each torso
one more sink added, all 4 sinks assigned to legs
armor stays at 8.5